← School of Hard Knocks Podcast
School of Hard Knocks Podcast
Richard Harpin | He Was $10K From Bankruptcy… Then Built a $4B Company
00:33:55
Richard built HomeServe into a £4.1 billion global company operating in 10 countries, starting with just £50,000 and multiple early failures. In this episode, he breaks down the near-collapse moments, the pivot that changed everything, and the exact b...
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- [00:00]
A
I remember to this day my father lifting me onto his shoulders and we looked over the wall of the big house to watch the helicopter land. I remember saying, dad, I want one of those one day.
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B
And for the people watching right now, where are you heading after this podcast?
- [00:12]
A
I'm going back up to Yorkshire for a meeting. Buy helicopter.
- [00:15]
B
The man that built the company Homeserve, into a company that sold for 4.1 billion not dollars pounds.
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A
Proper money.
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C
You approach somebody to put more money into the company for this money, like, we'll give you 10% of the company.
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A
If he'd had 10% HomeServ when we sold, it had been worth £400 million. Every day he regrets the decision.
- [00:36]
D
That one hurts.
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B
Richard, if me and you died tomorrow and you had one more message to leave with the younger generation, what would that be?
- [00:42]
A
That would be
- [00:46]
B
what's going on, everyone? Welcome back to the School of Hard Knocks podcast. I'm James and I'm here with Jack and Josh. And we have an incredible guest for you all today. Our first podcast ever in London. The man that built the company Homeserve, into a company that sold for 4.1 billion not dollars pounds.
- [01:05]
A
Proper money. Proper money.
- [01:06]
B
There we go. You built this company from the ground up. Only took investment twice, and you built an incredible company. You know, emergency home services, plumbing.
- [01:16]
A
Everybody worries about a plumbing emergency and difficult to get somebody that will come out straight away and then most people will be landed with a big repair bill.
- [01:25]
B
Where I want to get things started today is a lot of people come to that realization that the only way that they're going to build generational wealth and really become wealthy is when they're in their later in life, right? 30s, 40s, 50s, right. Where they've worked their entire lives in corporate America. You had your realization at four years old, Richard, take, you're 61 today. Take us back to four years old.
- [01:46]
A
I feel really old compared to you three guys, so. But, yeah, I was born in the north of England, and I remember to this day my father lifting me onto his shoulders and we looked over the wall of the big house and watched the helicopter land. I remember saying, d, I want one of those one day. And he said, don't be in the civil service like me, earning a pittance. You need to run your own business. I found out three years later it was Lord Hanson, the famous industrialist of the 1960s, flying his helicopter in to have lunch with his parents on a Sunday. And he was my influence. I knew age four, I wanted to be an entrepreneur, even though at the time I didn't know the word.
- [02:27]
B
And for the people watching right now, where are you heading after this podcast?
- [02:31]
A
I'm going back up to Yorkshire for a meeting by helicopter from Battersea Heliport and then I'm flying to one of my portfolio businesses I'm invested in in Exeter. Back to London this evening.
- [02:45]
B
So, Richard, you had that fundamental realization about becoming an entrepreneur, working for yourself at 4 years old. But tell us a little bit about growing up. Did you end up working any jobs? Did you think about going into engineering at any point in time like your dad, or kind of what was. I know that you started a kennel business. Tell us about some of those early companies that you started.
- [03:03]
A
Yeah, I wanted to get into business right away. And so I got a, as a present from my grandfather, a New Zealand white rabbit. And I thought, how can I make money out of that? I'll buy a second one, get them breeding, sell those rabbits to my friends at school. Once I'd sold them all a rabbit, then I thought, how can I make more money while they go on holiday every year? So I will run a rabbit kennels and charge them for looking after the rabbit when they bring it to me when they. That then turned into a Ricardo, the famous magician of the North. And I became a children's magician. And probably my first business was Most kids age 12 in the UK in those days would have been making Airfix sort of plastic models. I wanted to do something that would make money. I got a friend who was a fisherman and I thought that was a bit boring. But he tied flies for fishing and I thought, I can do that. And if I tie these flies I can then sell them onto the local fishing tackle shop. And then thought, they're making money in selling me the materials and buying back the ready tide flies. I'm going to cut them out and set up a mail order fly tying material business. And so I did that. This was in the days well before the Internet and I believe in market research. My market research cost me eight pounds. It was 20 words in the back of Trouton Salmon magazine saying, fly tying tackle products ring up for your free catalog. I didn't have one. That was my market research. I wanted to know that people would call. Thirty people called, I printed a catalog and that was my first proper business. The big frustration was I didn't meet any of my customers. So I thought I need to do a pop up stand at the National Game Fair. Hundred thousand fishermen. And so I met some of my customers. It was at the very first game fair that the wives and girlfriends and sisters of all those fishermen said, oh, those fishing flies would make really nice earrings. That was my second bit of market research done. Off with the end of the hook on with kidney wires and I pivoted into my next business, high fashion jewelry. I was going to call these earrings danglers. There was a free marketing consultant, a government scheme came out and said, richard, you can't possibly call these earrings danglers. That infers something unseemly and organic. And I suggest that you call them hookers. So with my £100 marketing budget, enough to print 100 press releases, hookers set to hit UK high streets. Tens of thousands of teenage girls rushed out to buy hookers earrings in hair salons up and down the uk. But after six months, it ended. And that was not going to be the big business that bought me my first helicopter. I ended up going to work for Procter and Gamble in marketing for nearly four years, learning the business. But I wanted to keep my entrepreneurial hand in. And the big opportunity was buying houses and renting them out by the room. £40 a week did that with a business partner. We bought about 10 houses. And do you know what the biggest problem was? Always on a Friday evening, phone would ring one or two of the tenants saying, we've got a block drain or we've got water pouring out of a radiator. You could not get a Geordie Plummer in Newcastle upon Tyne for love nor money on a Friday evening in Newcastle, they're all out drinking beer. So we thought, that's the big opportunity. We'll set up an emergency plumbing business. We'll call it a one fast fix to get in the front of the Yellow Pages section. We put our life savings into the business.
- [06:51]
B
How much money did you put in?
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A
£50,000 between us and literally saw the money go down the drain in six months.
- [06:59]
C
I want to touch on that. I believe that, like when the money drained down, you actually you approached somebody to put more money into the company and you kind of gave them an ultimatum. It was kind of like, hey, you know, for this money, like, we'll give you 10% of the company or we'll do 20% interest. Could you tell that story a little bit and how maybe that turned out?
- [07:20]
A
Yeah, this is in end of 1992. There was a knock on the office door. Bailiffs. And they were there to take away our office furniture and computers because we hadn't paid the VAT bill. And so we managed to say, don't take away our computers and office furniture. We will agree a repayment plan. I had a friend called Simon Blunt and He lent me £10,000 and he saved the business from the bailiffs. And he had the opportunity to either get 20% interest rate or 10% of the company. He chose 20% interest rate. I paid him back £10,000 plus £3,000 profit a year later. If he'd had 10% home served when we sold, he'd it had been worth £400 million. Every day he regrets the decision, but we're still friends and that's what matters.
- [08:25]
D
That one hurts. That one hurts to hear that you have that opportunity. And it's like. It's almost like people that invest into Amazon or to these big companies where they lend them money and they ended up taking out the interest instead of equity. One of the things that I'm curious about is you had put $50,000 in, you got an additional loan. What was going on with that early business model that just wasn't working? And then how did you end up pivoting to finding something that did actually work?
- [08:51]
A
The cost of Yellow Pages was too high. People only have a plumbing emergency every five years, so there was no repeat business. So the business model didn't work. I came across a little water company in the south of England that had developed plumbing insurance coverage. I copied the model, improved it, so we added in block drain cover, internal plumbing emergency cover, and then we signed up another water company to use their brand name. And literally, with the last £10,000 before the business went bust, we sent out a mail shot to 1,000 customers. And we knew the business with 23 people in it was about to be closed down. And we got 38 people sent in the check for £50, a 3.8% take up from direct mail. I remember getting on my office desk in front of those 23 people that were fearful of losing their jobs and said, yes, we've made it. And literally almost the rest is history. We went from losing half a million pounds in that first full year, making three quarters of a million pounds in the following year. We went to all the wars companies in the UK and said, we've developed this affinity branding model. We want to use your brand name, like Thames Water, your customer list, and we'll give you a commission. Every year a customer signs up and every year they renew on our annual AAA cover for the home. And that was the magic model. But I can't take the credit for that idea. I copied the idea, improved it and Then scaled it.
- [10:32]
B
Richard, we were talking about this earlier that, you know, we're taught in school growing up that to copy someone else's work is a bad thing. Right. But you kind of have that fundamental belief that it's, I think kind of one of your rules on how to make a billion dollars is that find something that works, emulate it, copy it and just find a way to make it better. Can you teach us your philosophy on that? Real.
- [10:52]
A
Yeah. How many people do we hear out there and they say, well, I had a great business idea, then I found out somebody done it, so I didn't do it. My message to them is, that's great. If somebody's doing it, it works. Copy what they're doing, do it slightly better and then think bigger. So absolutely, copying is good. That's the step number one to building a billion pound or billion dollar business.
- [11:18]
B
So before we go any deeper in this podcast, give us the nine steps to making a billion pounds in today's world. Give us the nine steps right here.
- [11:26]
A
Copying pivots, number one. Number two is get an but get the investor. When you want to scale, bootstrap your business until you prove your model otherwise. You need to give away too much of the equity. Number three, get some coachman. That means get a paid business coach. Get a free mentor, somebody with the gray hairs like me that has made all mistakes and got some learnings that could apply to your business. That was part of my model in getting help from Nigel Morris when I wanted to scale America. Number four, bricks and clicks and paper. Anybody would think we're in a digital marketing world, but actually direct mail shots still work. Think about your letterbox at home and your doormat. Far less direct mail today than 10 years ago. Therefore you get a bigger share of the doormat. More likely for that direct mail shot to make it to the coffee table or the kitchen table. So combine it with online marketing, which today is really expensive. Junk mail today is emails. Think of our inboxes absolutely crammed with those. So do direct mail and bricks. Every business should have a physical presence that doesn't need to be your own retail store. It could be get your product into somebody else's store, into a department store where you can showcase your product. Some people will go there and say great product, but they go to the website and buy it B2C online from that original company. Step five is hire your replacement. Entrepreneurs are loads of ideas need to focus. Hire a proven chief exec. That doesn't mean leave your business, step up to work on the business rather than in your business. Step six, go global with locals. Really important in the UK because we're a small island and we need to be expanding our business proven business to America, which is the great dream for most British entrepreneurs to be over there. But get the business model right and then hire locals in the country. Americans buy from Americans. Don't have a Brit running your American business. Step number seven is evolution, not revolution. Let's think of all those businesses that didn't keep evolving like Blockbuster Video, like BlackBerry, they are dead or a shadow of the former selves. You've got to keep your model evolving, otherwise you will die. Step eight is if we had a show of hands, who has a to do list? Most people would put their hand up because business is about getting stuff done. How many people have got a not to do list? I didn't have. I learned I've got to have one. A not to do list is more important than a to do list. The answer is you need both. But entrepreneurs have too many ideas. They need to be focused on a single idea and executing it really well. And step number nine is hone your character. It's about the personal characteristics of the founder entrepreneur. I used to do performance reviews with all of my team and make sure they're enforced. What are you good at? What are you bad at? Everybody would leave those meetings miserable, particularly me when I used to have them with my chairman. I was bad at loads of stuff, only good at a few things. And I learned hone your character, focus on your strengths. Hire people to do the things that we don't like doing that we're not good at. Other people can do them much better.
- [15:17]
B
Masterclass.
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C
Absolutely. And Richard, I want to dive into a lot of those steps deeper, but I want to touch on something that we were talking about before you broke down the nine steps of how to make a billion pound business. We were talking about. You don't have to necessarily reinvent the wheel. Oftentimes like some of the most successful companies aren't reinventing the wheel. You know, we work with a ton of content creators and we almost say that like, hey, if you want to get really good at content, you know, trying to just come up with an idea of like a really good content page might not be the best route of success. It's better to look at the market and see like what content is really hot and proven and trending and being able to take that and feel like, you know what, I think I can make a video like that, but in my niche or with my own spin on it. When I hear your entrepreneurial journey, though, it seems that, like, you know, in today's world, everybody's trying to come up with, like, what's that new hot thing that I need to build a company? But when I listen to your journey, you're taking the fundamental principle of entrepreneurship, of seeing a problem that the market has and creating a solution for it. Everybody wants this, like these sexy businesses, but you went into plumbing. And so for you, like, what are, what do you think are like the top two to three businesses that people should really be getting into over the next couple years?
- [16:29]
A
They've got to be service businesses because we all need additional services. So van based, ideally with some technical expertise that goes with that. I would say to every budding entrepreneur, go and buy Entrepreneur magazine. Read the list of the top 500 franchises out there and decide which one takes your fancy. Copy the idea, research it, don't buy the franchise. Set it up yourself with your own directly employed people, then you fully own the business. You're not paying somebody else a franchise fee. And that would be the magic model.
- [17:09]
B
Richard, is there any part of the trades that you think is going to get disrupted like crazy in the next couple of years? In the States, there's a lot of buzz and talk about how electricians are going to make a lot of money, especially with all the data centers that are being built. Do you find here in the UK or just any parts of the world that there's going to be an immense amount of opportunity in a particular part of the trades in the coming years?
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A
I think we all want to have people to do things for us. So any service where it can't be disrupted by AI, it can be made more efficient. But you need somebody, an individual, a human, to go out to somebody's home to, to provide that service. So I think there's an opportunity across the board. Electrics, I do agree, but that's also about new forms of heating, about solar generation, more electric vehicles. So those would be some of the areas.
- [18:05]
B
Let me ask you a personal question for the three of us, Richard. The three of us have began to buy some real estate properties and, you know, we've got a pretty profitable business. We're making some really good money. Would it be a bad idea if we wanted to go buy a boring business for ourselves to own and have somebody else kind of operate it? What do you think about that?
- [18:22]
A
I think that's a great idea. And actually going and buying a small business that is proven and profitable, a retirement sale Somebody that's getting out of it. It's 97% of businesses set up in the UK fail within five years. So it's a lot less risky to have your own business if you go and buy one.
- [18:45]
B
It's easier to buy revenue than create revenue.
- [18:48]
A
Exactly. But buy the business with somebody else's money. It's called vendor finance, and you'd have to put in a bit of money. But then you go to the owner that's retiring and say, I want to buy your business. I'm going to keep it running and maintain your legacy, but I need you to let me pay you over three or four years as I grow the business.
- [19:10]
D
One of the things that I realized that you talked about even from an early age is market research. And you had expanded this company into how many countries?
- [19:19]
A
10.
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D
10 countries. And one of the things that you have, one of the things that you mentioned as well, is that Americans buy from Americans. You've validated the model. And for someone out there who's looking to expand into a different country where there may be different policies, different culture, how do you go about validating that idea and doing that market research before actually investing a ton of money and moving the business out there?
- [19:42]
A
It's the job of the founder to go to that new country and. And check it out. Before they do that, they need to put in place their successor to keep running the UK and growing it. And then I would recommend that any founder doesn't just look at one country, but looks at several and decides which is going to be the easiest opportunity. Doesn't need to be the biggest opportunity. Better to be small and beautiful. Many British entrepreneurs rush to America. They'd be far better to prove their business in a smaller country closer to home before going to the big opportunity. So they could be launching in Ireland or launching in France or Spain before going to America. Then the key bit is saying, how similar should my business model be in that foreign country? It's a 10% rule. If you need to change your business model by more than 10%, don't go there. If you think one day you're going to be in 20 different countries. And if it's 20% different, recipe for complexity and disaster. Ideally, make it only 3% different. You could have a different brand name in different countries, particularly if you were buying a business to get into that particular country that's doing exactly what you're doing, but have a consistent model and then hire locals to run that business with. Once you've set it up yourself as the founder you know it's going to work, then bring in really good Americans or French people.
- [21:21]
C
I really like one of your principles of how you phrase it, that it's like bringing in capital at the right time. We know a lot of, you know, we come across a lot of different entrepreneurs that they start a company and they just, they raise, they raise, they raise, they raise, they raise money over and over and over again at the beginning. But I'm a big fan of bootstrapping a company. But for you, I feel like this principle maybe came from a place of a lesson that you learned. Maybe. Where were you able to kind of craft the principle of you need to take on capital after you've bootstrapped? Once the business model is proven and it's time to scale. Could you break that down a little bit more for us?
- [22:02]
A
I tried to make my business too big too quickly. We ran out of money once we brought on board a water company that put in half a million pounds but they took 52% of the equity. I learned that you need to prove your business model through bootstrapping. And then when you want to go big, take the capital, not when you try and approve the model. I got in April 1993, half a million pounds landed in the business bank account. And I thought, right, let's go for it. Let's grow the business using that water company investor money. And every month the business grew. And I thought we'll get economies of scale and get to profit. Guess what? We didn't. I took losses of £10,000amonth to £50,000amonth. A year later we'd run out of money, down to our last £10,000 before I copied the plumbing insurance model I found elsewhere. So the learnings are bootstrap. Don't sell your equity cheap. Take on investment to scale when it's proven and therefore you'll only need to give up a minority of your business. Don't give up a majority. Those are the golden rules.
- [23:18]
D
If someone has a business that is profitable, it is doing well. Let's just say it's for example, doing two to $3 million a year in profit. Why would you recommend that person to seek investors and to bring people on versus continuing to bootstra but already successful business?
- [23:33]
A
Because it's not just about getting the money, it's finding an investor that can help. And for many entrepreneurs, they are first time business people. And so it's getting the help and advice as well as the money. But it also means that as entrepreneurs we worry about what if it goes wrong? And there's always a crisis in the world, whether it's Brexit or Covid or a war and businesses can go bust. So I'd always say at the right point, when you've proven your business, take some money off the table, pay off your debts, make sure that your family are not going to be on the street if it did go wrong. And then you've got the comfort of knowing you've got a bit of money behind you, you can take a bigger risk and you can scale and go quicker and hire some really good people, but that's going to be really expensive. That could take your $3 million of profit backwards for a while. If you've got somebody in there helping you and with some of their money, I think that takes away some of the pressure.
- [24:37]
B
Richard, we were talking about it earlier that when you first had gone global to America, you had met a mentor of yours and he gave you two pieces of advice. Can you share with us what those were?
- [24:46]
A
This mentor was Nigel Morris, a British co founder of Capital One, the credit card company in the us. He said, so where are you based over here? Said, oh, we're in Miami. Shook his head violently and said absolutely not. If you want to be a serious American business, you need to be based between Boston, New York, Washington D.C. east coast, five hour time difference relative to the UK and we were in Miami and we couldn't hire serious business people. They either wanted to go to the beach at 4pm or smoke dope. That is not how you build a serious business. His second piece of advice was he said, who have you got running your UK business over here? Said, oh fantastic. Brit sent him over here six years ago. But HomeServe America's still relatively small. We're struggling to sign big utility partners over here. Shook his head again and said, americans buy from Americans. Hire an American to be your chief exec. When I did that and took the advice In 2010, HomeServe America was making $10 million annual profit. Last year we made $300 million annual profit. Hired a guy called Tom Ruson, prove and chief exec. Sixteen years later, he's still running the business.
- [26:06]
C
One of your principles to building a billion pound company is you should hire a business coach. And it seems like Nigel Morris was one of those people for you. How could someone really go about getting a mentor or getting a business coach? You even said don't even just seek one out, hire one.
- [26:24]
A
Yeah, we all worry, I think that why would somebody that's really successful give me help? But the fact is every successful person has had many mentors over the years, so they're happy to give something back.
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B
Even today. You have a mentor, I believe, right?
- [26:39]
A
Yeah, and I've had a number of mentors over the years. My mentor today runs a very big private equity house and I've got an investment business and I'm still learning about that. When I was building an online marketplace with a business called checkrtrade, I went and I signed up Steve Kofer, the co founder of TripAdvisor, Jeff Boyd, the chairman and previously chief executive booking.com and Scott Forbes, the American chairman of Rightmove. And each of them helped me to build a an online platform for tradespeople called Check a Trade. So identify the problem or opportunity that you're trying to solve, work out who could help and knock down the door until they submit and say, okay, I will help. And then don't be afraid to change your mentor when you've got another problem or opportunity that you need to solve.
- [27:40]
B
Richard, I wanted to talk real quick about the branding of HomeServe because that wasn't the first name of the company, was it? What was the original name of the company?
- [27:48]
A
Originally it was a one fast fix to get in the front of yellow pages. Then we changed it to Home Service Scheme. But Scheme in America sounds dodgy. And so we got rid of the word scheme and it became Home Service and then we shortened it to, to HomeServe.
- [28:08]
B
So we have a friend of ours who's come on this podcast as well. His name's Tommy Mello and his company is A1 Garage Doors. They're. They're now a billion dollar garage door company. Yeah, he's an incredible entrepreneur and he talks, I think he wrote, he wrote a book on it about how and specifically in the home service business, a lot of these people miss the mark because they're, I'm going to say it, quite frankly, their branding is shit. The branding is not good at all. It's not attractive. Whatnot was did you notice a certain uptick in the business when you kind of concise the branding and the name and stuff like that? Was that an important factor for your success or did it really not have a big impact on your company in
- [28:46]
A
the very early days and in many countries then we use the utility brands as the name for the home assistance cover. Today in America, HomeServe is a well known brand. I'm a big believer that have a brand which says what you do and keep it short because then it's memorable. And Tom Rusin, that chief executive, HomeServe America. He is the star of our TV advertising.
- [29:15]
B
Now, I don't even think you guys know this, but we have a friend who's with us on this podcast right here.
- [29:20]
D
What is that?
- [29:21]
B
This is a hedgehog. And you and you learned this concept from a book called Good to Great, which everybody here is familiar with. Could you explain what the hedgehog means to you?
- [29:30]
D
Yeah.
- [29:30]
A
I spent two of the best days of my life training with Jim Collins in his research laboratory in Boulder, Colorado, and he talks about foxes and hedgehogs and foxes are every entrepreneur. We have an idea a day and we lack focus. And he says we need to be hedgehogs. That if anybody comes along with a harebrained idea, we put up our prickles, we ignore it, and we keep going in our methodical direction. Every fox, every entrepreneur, if they can't transform themselves into becoming a hedgehog, then they need to hire a hedgehog. And every business needs a hedgehog strategy. A hedgehog strategy answers three questions in one sentence of no more than 20 words. Those three questions are, what are you passionate about in your business? That will normally be your purpose. Secondly, what can you be the best at? And thirdly, how you're going to make money. What's your economic engine? Answer those three questions with one sentence. I now run a business called Business Leader here in the UK and that's a growth program for entrepreneurs that want to scale a business. And we wrote our Hedgehog Strategy about a year ago. A Business Leader. We inspire our founder and CEO members to fast forward their growth through unique content and and facilitated learning. That is all we do. The 35 people in business Leader, they read that statement, and if they're doing something that doesn't fit with it, they need to stop doing it. And that goes on the not to do list.
- [31:19]
B
Richard, we'd like to end these podcasts off with two last super quick questions for our guests. I'm going to start and Jack's going to end us off right here. Richard, if me and you died tomorrow and you had one more message to leave with the younger generation, what would that be?
- [31:32]
A
That would be think about what really interests you is that are you a sales and marketing person? Are you a finance guy, Are you an operations person? When you've done that, don't jump right into business. Go and work for a big company that you really admire in that discipline, then go and work for a smaller company, get that experience, and then rather than starting a business, go and buy a small business. Take the learning that you've got from working for others and use vendor finance. The person that's selling you the business to finance your buy in so you can get in there with a small amount of money and very low risk.
- [32:12]
C
Richard, you built an incredible 4.1 billion pound business, leaving a legacy for entrepreneurs of nine steps to creating a billion pound company. But how do you want to be remembered?
- [32:25]
A
I want to be the person that with my team doubled the number of large companies here in the UK. We only have 7,500 of them. We need to double that. Brits are much more introverted. We need to learn from our American counterparts and it's all about scaling mid sized companies. There are a lot of startups here in the uk. There are relatively few large companies. We've got to help those mid sized businesses turning over between 3 million pounds and 100 million to scale and make it big to be able to be successful in America. And that's how we create the next billion pound businesses.
- [33:07]
B
I love it. Well, Richard, thank you so much for being with us today on the Hard Knocks podcast. This was incredible.
- [33:12]
A
Thank you.
- [33:13]
B
I appreciate you. And for everybody watching right now, be sure to like and subscribe for amazing content because we're going all over the world to bring you guys the most incredible business owners, founders, billionaires and every industry that you can think about. We're also going to put the links down to Richard's Instagrams and channels below. That way everybody can stay up to date with you and all the great stuff that you're going to be doing. As well as we're going to put the link down to the School of Mentors, which is the number one most powerful entrepreneur, community and network in the entire world, where every single week you get direct access to the eight, nine and ten figure entrepreneurs, the millionaires, the billionaires that we interview on the School of Hard Knocks, they come directly to mentor you on live calls every week inside the School of Mentors. So we can't wait to see you on the inside. With that being said, we'll see you in the next episode.