← School of Podcasting: Expert Tips for Launching and Growing Your Podcast
School of Podcasting: Expert Tips for Launching and Growing Your Podcast
From Model Trains to Money: Monetizing Your Passion Podcast
00:48:01
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- [00:01]
A
While there is no wrong answer, there are two schools of thought. Broadcasting is often a mile wide but an inch deep. Then there's podcasting, which is often very niche and very deep. So it's an inch wide but a mile deep. So you have a smaller audience. But they're like, oh my, I can't believe there's a podcast about this. And so the last couple weeks we've been talking to people who are not so much getting sponsors, but getting partners who want to share their message. And so today I'm so happy to get this guy on the microphone. He's a member of the school of podcasting and he does a show about model railroads. Yeah. And this is one of those kind of things where maybe a large chunk, I don't know, I'm not a train guy, I'm a podcast guy. And when you get me around other podcasters, I'm like, oh, finally I can talk about podcasting. It's the same way when you're in hyper niche areas. And so today we're going to talk with Ray Arnett from around the layout.com and wait till you hear what you can do with a small audience that's super engaged. Hit it, ladies.
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B
The school of Podcasting with Dave Jackson.
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A
Podcasting since 2005, I am your award winning hall of fame podcast coach, DAV Dave Jackson, thanking you so much for tuning in. If you're new to the show, welcome aboard. This is why I talk about helping you plan, launch and grow your podcast. If you want to monetize, sure, we can do some of that too. My website is schoolofpodcasting.com use the coupon code listener. That's L I S T E N E R when you sign up for either a monthly or yearly subscription. And if you're worried about that, realize that comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. So if you hop in and you're like, oh, this podcasting thing takes up a lot more time than I thought, I'll give you back your money worry free. And today we are talking with Ray Arnott. He's a super just human being. I'm so glad he is a member of the school of podcasting. And the more I talked to Ray, I was like, I gotta get this guy on the show. So before I do a double intro, here's my talk with Ray Arnott from aroundthelayout.com. it's a podcast about model trains. And so, Ray Arnott from aroundthelayout.com, thanks for coming on the show.
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B
Glad to be here and glad to be on a podcast where after it's all done, I don't have to edit it, which is always a lot of fun.
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A
That's a bonus. Absolutely. So, well, let's start off just with your show. How long you been doing it and what inspired you to go, you know what? I think I'm going to start a podcast.
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B
I've been doing around the layout podcast for three years actually, just coming up on that third year anniversary. It really was an idea born from the pandemic. Terrible things that happened during the pandemic, but all the technology and all the ways that we were kind of forced to connect in different ways. I'm part of a model railroading operating group. Yes. We actually take our model railroads and we run them like real railroads will go to each other's houses on a round robin fashion each month and run them just like the railroad, deliver product to customers. It's a lot of fun. It's like a simulation. Well, when the pandemic hit, we weren't able to do that. So we started doing the zoom meetings and the virtual stuff where we were kind of connecting and chatting with each other. And all of these conversations started coming out of this that we never had during the operating sessions because we'd get there, hi, how are you? Maybe a quick chat. But then you'd get to going to run your trains, doing your jobs, and nothing would ever happen. So now we're sitting there and we're actually talking and I'm like, I'm learning so much about these guys and really their why behind model railroading, that really fascinated me. So I said, as I'm listening to this, I'm like, this sounds kind of like a podcast. Fast forward a few months and tried to learn it. And I had a lot of great support from a lot of good folks that helped me get towards it and then just started interviewing my friends, the easy ones, the ones that are very quick to get on the show and then exactly that. I learned more things about them in an hour podcast than I had in the years operating with them. So that's essentially how around the layout podcast got its start.
- [04:47]
A
Nice. And I know you have the operating crew, you have a bunch of things going on over there. The one thing that always blows me away, because you've heard me say, well, if you have a really engaged audience, you might get up to 3%. And your engagement with your audience is just off the charts. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
- [05:10]
B
It's unbelievable. And I think it has a lot to do with the niche community I'm in. The model railroading community is full of very amazing people who love to share, who love to collaborate. And I think the podcast has kind of built them that forum that where they they that sense of belonging. And perhaps it's maybe even the stigma of the hobby. Of course, you see the Sheldon's on Big Bang Theory and people think of it that way, but it's not the hip, cool thing to do. So when you find like minded people, you grasp towards them. And I think my podcast has allowed people to do that in a reflection of how engaged they are. And it comes in just amazing numbers. We talked about the survey and what I should have expected from the survey and the numbers I got. And when I hear you say 3%, I was like, whoa, I far exceeded the goal here. But people are so willing to help and they're willing to help with their layouts and they're willing to help with the podcast and it all ties hand in hand to their mentalities.
- [06:28]
A
Yeah, it's one of those cases. I know I get that when I go to a podcast event and all of a sudden I don't have to explain what a podcast is, whatever it is, and it's the same thing. I don't have to worry about going, oh, it's a bunch of nerdy podcasters. So when you can create that safe space, then people actually like, oh, cool, we can actually go all in on our passion and share all of our tips and secrets and that whole nine yards. So that's the beauty of it for me. I know one thing, you did something with a boxcar that I thought was just really cool. And I think you might even got surprised on how it was just an idea and you kind of threw it on the wall. And I think right now you said it's in Australia. So tell us what the idea was and how it's been working.
- [07:15]
B
This isn't yet another brainchild of me having a job where I stare at a windshield for a very long period of time and have things to dream up and come up with these concepts, but the concept of the ATLP boxcar, I call it the around the Layout Podcast Interchange tour. Interchange is when railroads exchange cars with each other. So that was the concept of the ATLP interchange car to create one boxcar and have it travel to all of these amazing layouts, really around the world. And we had a car painted up in HO scale, which is the most common scale, and then that started to travel and then we Ended up having to do a second one in N scale, which is a lot smaller than HO scale. So there's actually two cars touring in two different scales. And it was an opportunity for folks to connect with the podcast. Obviously it was exposure and really created content for social media, et cetera, that I could then take their photos and share them and show where the stops are and folks can follow that. And it's just amazing, the feedback. Like, people want this car. Like I get, you know, it's like shocking. You know, talk about imposter syndrome. Like, they want that car, this crazy idea. And they do. And yeah, it traveled. Now the HO car is on the Gold coast of Australia, working its way down the coast. It'll eventually end up in Sydney and then we'll shoot it over to New Zealand and then it'll come back through Europe and then back over to the United States. And I think we're on 65 or 70 stops so far of this car where folks receive it in the mail or it's handed off to them, put it on their layout, they create a story, there's a log to fill out where they can say where the car is, what product it's hauling and fill that all up with their name and then they get their own little exclusive sticker that says the ATLP car was here. So it's just been amazing and a lot of fun to do.
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A
Yeah. And like you said, all those people are taking pictures of it on their layout, like, hey, look what's here. And of course they're going to share that on social. And then people like, wait, what's around the layout? Oh, it's this great podcast. So I think it's just a great idea. And then your recent, because of my podcast story was the opportunity to essentially.
- [09:48]
B
Establish myself, if not as an expert, as kind of a leader of conversation in the model railroading space, which we've talked and you've talked about a lot of being able to establish yourself as an expert in your field with your podcast. So there is an event called the St. Louis RPM. RPM stands for railroad Prototype Modelers Meet. Just interpret. That is the best of the best get together in St. Louis in July every year to geek out, right? To be amongst themselves with their people that are completely. And not dabblers, not somebody that does it from time to time. People that are laser focused on the hobby and creating almost accurate prototype details on their models. So with this, I had gone out last year to St. Louis, had an absolute blast. It's a three day event this Past year or actually a few weeks ago, the head of the St. Louis RPM reached out to me. Not only wanted to advertise with the podcast, which I'm sure we'll get to, also wanted me to head up a roundtable discussion and moderate on technology and model railroading. Which am I the most technologically savvy in model railroading itself? No. But I know that because of my podcast, because of my voice, my ability to ask questions that has really developed in the three years of doing the podcast, has led me to a position of where I'm getting these opportunities to go places and do these things and be a part of discussions with the best of the best in the hobby.
- [11:39]
A
Yeah. So when this guy reaches out to you, had you had him on your show before or was this just a cold call and he just reached out to you?
- [11:45]
B
No, he was on. He's been on the show before. We had promoted the St. Louis RPM as an event. It's a widely talked about show. So it was a lot of fun to learn more about it, how it got started. So I've had Lonnie, the head of the show, on my podcast. It's a developed relationship that we've had over the years.
- [12:06]
A
Well, and you mentioned sponsorship. So you always hear you need. It used to be 10,000 downloads. Now people go, well, it's really probably closer to 20,000 if you want to get the mattress people and the better helps and all this. And so I think it's safe to say you're not getting near those numbers, but yet you're still able to get sponsorships. So what's your philosophy on that? What's been your strategy?
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B
Well, I know as a listener of podcasts, I don't want to go on and listen to a podcast on a topic and hear a completely off topic commercial.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I don't want to do that to my, to my listeners. So relevant. And I decided early on it would be great to have a sponsor for a couple reasons, obviously the financial income. But I also was looking for kind of that credibility that comes with having a on topic sponsor to having that person or having a company that's relatable to my audience, relatable to what I'm doing with the show. So to start, one is I didn't want to get into the numbers, and I don't think you necessarily have to get into laying out all your numbers and all your statistics if you can find the right partnership. So the first one I did was not even a financial transaction. It was a Barter it was with a company called Highball Graphics, who I had done business with in the past, had a relationship with. He had heard about me starting a podcast. So I reached out to him and I said, hey, let's work together. I'll do an ad on my show for Highball Graphics. You mail out your decals to folks on the front of the envelope. Would you put it around the layout podcast sticker that I'll provide you? Easy deal. For him, all he had to do is peel and stick, and now I got him a stamp. It's even easier. He just stamps it on the front of the envelope. And I kind of like the stamp better. Kind of looks cool. Looks like mail kind of thing.
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A
Right.
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B
And that partnership continues, really, almost three years later. And I don't have statistics as to how much listenership I gained from having that stamp on the envelope, but I've gotta believe at least five people may have started listening to the podcast because of it. And it didn't really cost me anything because I didn't have a sponsor that 30 seconds in the beginning, I wrote an ad, I read it, played it at the beginning of the show. It didn't really cost me anything out of my pocket. And really, for. For Jim, it didn't cost him anything out of pocket. I provided the stickers, so there's maybe a little cost there. And now I got the stamp. It's. It's really pennies every time it gets stamped. But it laid the foundation and it really seeded the program is really what I want to call it, because now the next person heard that, and as I'm interviewing him or having him on the podcast, they start to ask, hey, that, that. That thing in the beginning. How do I get in there?
- [15:13]
A
What.
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B
What's the deal? So I decided early on, again, I don't put my numbers out there. I don't think it's particularly relevant if you ask for a reasonable amount of money. If you're looking for big deals, then that probably all plays in. But I didn't want to get into that. I don't know minutiae, if that's the right word or. Yeah, I just wanted to keep a simple plan, and it's worked. And then it just started to snowball after that.
- [15:46]
A
Interesting. Yeah. And I love the stamp idea because I always say, if you want to grow your podcast, figure out who your audience is and get your stuff in front of them. And so they're opening it up, and they're like, wait, what's around the layout? And they're going to go check it out. So it's a great partnership. I know my buddy Lee Silverstein, who did the we have Cancer show, said it's a matter of finding people who have kind of the same message and you both amplify each other. And so in that case, that's exactly what that guy is doing and you're doing the same for him. And then I remember the one night we were talking and you showed some sort of something that you had had somebody print and you could put a thing into it or whatever. It's like this round circle, like bumper sticker looking thing. What was that?
- [16:42]
B
So one of the early, maybe just after the advertising, because I knew advertising wasn't going to be the whole, the full pull of trying to at least get this hobby of podcasting paid for. I'm not going to turn, I'm not going to quit my day job because of this. It's very niche. It's not, I don't believe that model railroading is going to make me the next Joe Rogan. But what it does, at least I can say, at least to the wife that, hey, at least all this stuff, all these things that I have here, all these toys and equipment and useful tools are being paid for. So I looked towards my audience and I said, what kind of value in a membership program? Because we talk about that belonging that they yearn for. What can I give them that has some belonging that won't cost them a ton of money, that will help me pay for the podcast and I can give back to them? So I started tying in the things I do with the podcast and one of them is having once a month I work with the editor of Model Railroad News. His name is Tony Cook. He's been the biggest blessing I've had with the podcast as far as people to work with, because he knows a ton of folks in the manufacturing side of model railroading. And just like podcasting, us model railroaders love to buy stuff, right? We love gear, we love to get geeky about that. So once a month I bring Tony Cook on and then we find a manufacturer where we interview them for half the show and then the second half we do the news and we talk about new things coming out, etc. In the, in the world of model railroading. Call it what's happening in model railroading. Well, I have these folks and I have their attention while I'm interviewing them. So I said, you know what, if I had a membership group that I could talk to the manufacturer, get them to give me Something to give away of value. Every month I'll give it away to that group. And then what else can I give them? Okay, well, I'm using Patreon. I can use the Patreon page to give them previews of upcoming shows. The, the model railroading hobby for quite a while has been driven by stickers. We love stickers, like putting stickers everywhere. So I'll give them an exclusive sticker each month, tells them that they're a member of this group called the operating crew. I've recently added a, an exclusive chat where they can come on and every Tuesday night for an hour, I joined the chat group. And we just talk about pretty much anything. Model railroading. So I give them access to me. And so this is where that sticker all ties in. So I started sending the stickers out. I did that the first year and as folks were signing up. And then every year I give them a new sticker with the new year on it so they can collect them and show how long they've been a member of this group. So I sent them out in 24 and I'm sending them out on a blank piece of paper with just a handwritten note. And I said, boy, this is an opportunity. So this year I reached out to four of my sponsors and I said, hey, I got the back of this card. It's going out to. And at that point it was like 160 people. I had as a part of this membership group do an ad on the back, your business card. I got the whole thing paid for. It was. So now it's a partnership. So now they're helping me. They're getting an ad. It goes out. So in the mail and I'm the guy that still likes to receive mail. They open up the envelope and lo and behold, there's four ads, some of them with discounts and some actionable items on the backsides of the, of the advertisements. But now it's being hand delivered to who we know is a model railroader. And that excited my sponsors. And I would call them sponsors, but they're really marketing partners.
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A
Yeah.
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B
That now they're getting their ad right in the hands of a true model railroader.
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A
And so you've, you've got a couple of these partnerships now that you've talked about. And even when we see a perfect fit, you know, I'm doing, I don't know, a shoe podcast and there's somebody that makes shoes or you know what I mean, it's just, it's a hand in glove situation. We still get nervous about approaching people about how do I pitch my show to it? And you even said, like you, you kind of steer away from the numbers. So when you approach these people for partnerships, what's kind of the pitch and what does that look like?
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B
It's about knowing your value, knowing that you have something that will help them as much as it will help you in developing that. I'm a drag racing fan. They used to have sponsors. They put sponsors on the cars. And when I heard them use the term maybe 10 years ago where they stopped calling it sponsors and they called it marketing partners, a light bulb went off and starting to understand that concept. So take that approach when you have that conversation and then also know and get to the person that can make an easy decision. If you're doing that shoe podcast, I probably wouldn't go over to Nike, but if you know a local shoe repair guy, that would be beneficial for a smaller niche audience to deliver his message or her message, that would be my target. And that's what I worked with. Who do I know already in the business that I could relate to easily and leverage my relationship with them? Our partnership already.
- [22:19]
A
Yeah. The beautiful part of that is when you work with somebody local or just a smaller company, if you work with Nike, well, have fun trying to get that through the next month, because you've got to get to the right person, and the right person's going to pitch it to the department, they got to get the department head, and then it's got to go to the council, and then it's like, forget about it. And when you're working with a small company and it's Jill, Joe, and sometimes Pops, it's so much easier to get a decision because you're already talking to the decision maker. And if you've already built a relationship, you're kind of halfway home. It's just a matter of deciding not so much if, but how are you going to partnership. And you've got the. Didn't you approach for the sticker thing. Isn't that who you approached was a local? You know, you said you've got your advertisers on the back, but didn't you use somebody local for that?
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B
I used the existing relationships I had that were already advertisers.
- [23:18]
A
Bingo.
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B
And I just said, okay, let's take it one step more again, we already are doing business together. They already understand the value of doing business with around the layout podcast. How can we do more together? And that's again, the idea. Together, not you give me money and I do this, how can we promote together? And that mentality will take you a lot farther. Again, marketing partner, I have the opportunity this July to go out to Spring Creek Model Trains, which is a model railroad shop in the middle of nowhere. Deshler, N.E. 1 blinking traffic light and I think 747 people in that town. But they've got this massive hobby shop, and they do 50 weeks on the road a year going to hobby shows around the country. Now they're going to give me the opportunity to go out there. They're celebrating their 25th anniversary, and it was an invite. Hey, how do we get you out here to do live shows from our event? Help promote their event, help promote the podcast partnership together. Not just transactional. Hey, you come out, you do this, we do that for you. It's. It's very much a relationship that's been built through that advertising.
- [24:40]
A
Well, that's just a throwback to the days of the local dj. You know, I'm going to be at the new Piggly Wiggly, opening up the, you know, new grocery store, and they just want a celebrity there that their target audience knows. And this case, that's you.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So that, that's a beautiful thing, the school of podcasting. That is a beautiful thing. But when we come back, Ray had to deal with some stuff that wasn't beautiful. What happens when people in your niche don't play nice? We'll get to that right after this.
- [25:11]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:14]
A
Every voice has a story, and yours is worth sharing. At the school of Podcasting, we nurture your journey from the idea to the influencer. It's time to be heard. Let your voice be your Legacy. Go to schoolofpodcasting.com join and use the coupon code listener.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:42]
A
Want to know more about what I think when it comes to podcasting? Check out my newsletter@podcastingobservations.com that's podcastingobservations.com Links in the show notes.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
One of the things that you've run into that I have not. At least not a ton. But you've had people that don't always play nice in your genre. How do you handle that when you're. Because we're so used to podcasts, you just reach out to people, hey, you want to do this? And there seems to be a like, sure, let's try it. Or even if it's a no, it's a polite no. And you've had people that. Their idea of, how do I get to the top is kind of the crab in a bucket strategy of like, oh, I'll just pull down everybody else and then I'll be at the top. So how do you handle stuff like that?
- [26:34]
B
Well, I think I learned early on, maybe kindergarten, that some kids don't play well in the sandbox. Right. They like to throw the sand instead of building castles with you. And I had that unfortunately happen with model railroad podcasting. There was a long running model railroad podcast who felt that if others existed, it somehow took the shine off of his podcast and in reality it doesn't. And I've been able to work with other podcasts and have a much better relationship. And I approached it with them as our battle isn't to take listeners from show X and move them to show. Why? It's about the fact that I have a group of listeners. You have a group of listeners. We probably share a common audience. It's about those 350,000 model railroaders that are out there in the United States that aren't listening to podcasts. I want them to listen to any podcast that has to do with model railroading, whether it be mine or my good friends over at the second section podcast or model railroad talk or the Roundhouse or the Crossing Gate or TSG talking trains. I want them to go to any of those and I want them to listen. Because what's going to happen? They're going to go, wow, this is cool. What's next? Where's there? Where is. Where's more? I'm thirsty for more. Where can I find it? And they're either going to find me or yet another of the podcasts that are out there. And that's how we rise. Because it's about bringing them into the podcast mentality of getting that as part of their routine of listening to podcasts while they're modeling or while they're driving or while they're exercising or whatever it is. That's the goal. Let's bring people to podcasting. It also in that turn, puts a little bit of responsibility on the podcaster because you want to be the one that brings them in and doesn't scare them away, that listens to and goes, ooh, this is model railroad podcast. You want to be responsible to the community to make sure you're putting out a decent podcast that continues to draw them in week after week.
- [29:07]
A
Yeah. And you just mentioned a handful of other shows. Do you do any kind of trailer swaps or appear on each other's shows or anything like that?
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B
We've done a couple different things. We did a feed drop with TSG Multimedia. TSG Multimedia volunteered to have all of us podcasters on where we talked about collaboration. And then he gave me the audio file and I dropped it right in as a feed drop. And I did a little intro to it and explained it to my audience. And then they got to listen to the. The audio of TSG Multimedia as a. As one of my episodes. We also share ideas, support each other, help each other through. We all went through some issues with the other said podcast because I wasn't alone. He was attacking others, everybody. So we built a support group. But that was kind of the blessing of all that because it really made us tighter because we were able to figure out, okay, how do we handle this? How do we handle the negativity? How do we turn this into a positive? How do we support each other in a way where it doesn't look like we're stepping on each other either? Give each other guest ideas. Maybe this person doesn't work well for my format because I'm an audio podcast, but I have these other guys over here. They do like a live video format. If he's got a lot of visuals, that person is for them. It may not be for me. So we see it as that. And if Second Section Podcast, for example, does better, I'm going to do better because we'll all rise together.
- [30:41]
A
Yeah. And I know one of the things you've mentioned, just as we've been talking, is that you will go to these different shows. When you go to a show, like, what do you do? Do you have a booth? Do you have, like, what's. Do I need business cards? What's the. You know, any lessons you've learned from going to trade shows to help grow your show?
- [31:00]
B
I love giving away stuff to people. It is so much fun. That saying it is better to give than to receive is very true. And I use that again with my marketing partners. This last show at Amherst, which Amherst is like, it's the SEMA of model railroading. It's four buildings, 350,000 square feet, some crazy number of just model railroading, all at the Big E in West Springfield, Massachusetts. And it's where everybody goes. It's just the place. And I worked with a company called Scale Trains, who produces the absolute finest in model railroad products. I asked them for a locomotive. They did it for me the year before. And I got. When I talked to the president of the company, he said, how about five? Why don't we give somebody five locomotives? Now, these are like 300 bucks each.
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A
Wow.
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B
Let's give them five, so when they win it, they're going to walk home with all five under their arm. I was like, holy moly, what an opportunity. So I used it to my advantage, obviously, to draw people to the table to have conversations. I don't do anything live at the shows because they're very loud environments. And I know you have podcasts where you've talked about how to get over that, but I like to have the opportunity to be free to talk to my audience and get their feedback. I take a lot of notes at trade shows, ideas for shows, meeting the next guest, collaborating with other manufacturers and getting them set up for interviews. That's what I like to do at trade shows. I do have business cards. I have a nice table cover. I've got. I put now a banner so people can find the show. And I've used that to develop. And that's all coming from the advertising revenue and from the Patreon Group that I have. I put that money and invest it back into the podcast to help it grow and get these things that help get the word out about the podcast, because ultimately it's about getting the stories from the people that I interview out to more model railroaders.
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A
Nice. And you, you mentioned your Patreon group. How do you pitch your Patreon Group?
- [33:18]
B
I pitch it by keeping it an affordable, yet fun. And I guess the big success for my Patreon group is a mentality that I never, ever want to take advantage or take it for granted. Those folks are really so generous to be a member of my group, and I treat it like that. And how can I continuously give back? So that's how I pitch it. Here's an opportunity to support the podcast, and here's what you get for it. I'll recognize you on the website. You get an annual sticker. You get previews of upcoming shows. You get a chance to win something every month. In December, we gave over $3,000 worth of stuff away. In December, we did a live show on a Friday night, three and a half hours. I was exhausted by the end, but we brought on the manufacturers live on the show, talked for 10 or 15 minutes. They gave away products. We were giving everything away from gift cards to electronic devices for layouts, all the way up to locomotives. It was a full gamut of products that we were giving away. Give the advertisers and the donors an opportunity to get in front of an audience and talk about their product, but gave these folks that are supporting me on Patreon A chance to win. And it was a, it was a great time.
- [34:48]
A
It's a way to give back to those who have given to you. And it's like a game of volleyball. You deliver value in the podcast. They deliver value back in the form of money. And then you're like, okay, thank you for that, but I'll one up you. Now. Here's a chance to win a locomotive. And that's just going to make them tell their friends, oh, if you want to listen to a podcast, you got to go listen to my buddy ray@aroundthelayout.com so it just goes back and forth. If you were starting out today, you know, what advice would you have for the new person with kind of a smaller niche?
- [35:21]
B
I guess my overall message to folks is it can be done, especially if you have, if you have a niche podcast, you have an opportunity because you have a tighter community. It isn't a broad spectrum, but for model railroading, it really is. It's a big group. I mean, I believe there is 350,000 model railroaders out there. And that's just a guess at a number we've kind of thrown to the wall. But you have that chance to make great relationships and call it that. Don't call it a sponsor, don't call it an advertiser. Go to that marketing partner mentality and start small. You don't, you're not going to get rich off of it. But just work at it a little at a time and don't take advant. If, if folks are supporting your show or doing these, make sure you're meeting your obligation too. And then you'll have lifelong relationships with, with not only your listeners, but with your marketing partners as well.
- [36:24]
A
Well, everybody go check out Ray. He's got a great looking website, he's got a great logo. It's all out there at around the layout dot com. Ray, thanks so much for sharing your story and your. Because of my podcast stories and all your strategies. Thanks so much for coming on the show, Dave.
- [36:40]
B
Thank you so much for having me and thank you for all the help you have given me over the last few years with the school of podcasting. Not only the podcast, but being a member of the school of podcasting and all the ways that has helped make my podcast so much better.
- [36:56]
A
Well, you're fun to work with because you're having a blast and I think that's one of the reasons why you're successful, is you're having fun and the monetary stuff is great, we love it. But you're just having a blast talking about the thing you love, which is model trains. So I think that has a lot to do with your success.
- [37:13]
B
Fun keeps the flywheel turning.
- [37:15]
A
That's it. Excellent, my friend. Thank you so much. And there goes Ray. Couple things that jumped out that you may have missed was number one, Ray's show. And I've always said, if you want to monetize your show, you have to solve a problem. People will pay to have a problem go away. And Ray solved a problem when he first started out because people were like, hey, we used to do this thing. We'd go to each other's houses. Covid comes, and Ray said, hey, I've got a safe place over here. And then from there, they're like, hey, we should probably put this out as a podcast. Also, Ray mentioned, and I know this, that when Ray has a great idea, even if he's in the car because he's kind of driving the same route that he always does or whatever, your brain kind of gets to wander because your body's on autopilot. I know Ray writes these down when you have. You know, for me, I use Note Joy. Actually, there's a course now in the school of podcasting for Note Joy. You got to have something, whatever you're using Apple Notes, Google, keep, whatever it is, you got to have a note to write those down. And I love the fact he said I'm not the most technical person. Like, there are people that know more stuff about model railroads. But his podcast is his resume. And this is why I tell people over and over and over, your podcast leads to relationships, and those relationships lead to opportunities, and the opportunities lead to more relationships, which you guessed, it leads to lead to more opportunities. And then the thing I loved, you know, people, I always love when I hear a podcast go, ugh. All right, well, we got to do the sponsor, so hold on. I'm sure the person that's paying you money to talk about, you know, their product loves the fact when you're like, well, hey, if you give us more money, we'll get rid of these, you know, stinking ads. Yeah, that's. That's got to be going over well with the person that's writing you a check. And Ray said it simple. If you listen to Tom Webster, people don't hate advertising. They hate bad advertising. And so Ray said a really magic word to me. Relevant sponsors. Like, I remember I've told you this before. I used to listen to a podcast about web design. Why? Because I learned about products that I'd never ever heard of, like, I really didn't like the show that much, but I was waiting for the sponsor. I'm like, ooh, that sounds cool. I'm gonna go play with that. Relevant is such a keyword when it comes to your content. When it comes to your sponsors, people won't fast forward if it's an actual sponsor they want to hear about. So keep that in mind. Again, find rayarooundthelayout.com and if you're into model railroading, see, I kept calling it model trains, and I believe the proper term is model railroading. And one last thing. I brought this up before, but if you're into a hobby that you kind of go, yeah, I'm into underwater basket weaving. And people go. They kind of laugh at you. Yeah, start a podcast. Because there are other people that are into the same stuff you do. In fact, there is a friend of mine. She's been on the show. Wait, let's do this instead. Welcome to because of My Podcast, where.
- [40:42]
B
We spotlight the results people are achieving.
- [40:44]
A
Because of their podcast. My buddy, Leslie Eiler Thompson was on episode nine, hundred and nine, kind of talking about, is a podcast a waste of time? And she ended up, you know, leaving the one show she did, started a show called Niche to meet you, where she interviews people about these niche things that they're doing. Well, it turns out that little passion project is now on the radio on wpln. I believe that's in Nashville. Oh, and by the way, I have said it before, your podcast can be your resume. And Leslie is now starting a new job at Christianity Today as the producer of the Russell Moore Show. Yes. Because of her podcast. You know, again, it's the networking. You know, the relationships lead to opportunities, and opportunities lead to relationships. I'm here to tell you I got one more, and I'll let you know. This is every Friday, we do a group call. It's called Lunch with Dave. And so this is everybody just hanging out. And so this is Dr. Brad Miller from the show Cancer and Comedy, which I love that name because it always made you go, wait, I gotta click on that. But here he's talking about again how his podcast has grabbed the attention from.
- [42:07]
C
Someone, a guy who is a professor and a medical doctor at Cedar Sinai, works at USC and ucla. And we're just having to get to know each other.
- [42:19]
A
Call.
- [42:19]
C
But we're, you know, he's in the area of therapeutic humor, and we've got to know each other through that nice cancer comedy podcast. And we're going to be at least exploring the opportunity of some ways we can work together. And I'm not sure that be might be some research or teaching or something like that, but I just thought it was kind of cool that somebody from a great big teaching consortium kind of a thing. He's connected with UCLA at usc, both at Cedar Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles. So I just thought it's cool he reached out to me and yeah, well, that's never out where it can go.
- [42:52]
A
Find Brad over at Cancer and Comedy. And again, your podcast leads to relationships, and relationships lead to opportunities.
- [43:06]
B
Ooh, now that's a good question.
- [43:10]
A
This month's question comes from Todd the Gator from the Guardian Downcast, where they talk about the Destiny 2 video game. And here's his question.
- [43:20]
B
How long did it take you to create your podcast from just an idea in your head to actually taking action and executing your podcast plan?
- [43:29]
A
And then he threw on this maybe.
- [43:31]
B
Add how long did it take your podcast to find its audience or community?
- [43:37]
A
That's an interesting question. When you go to answer the question, don't forget to say a little bit about your show and where we can find you. I need your answer by September 26th. Simply go to schoolofpodcasting.com question or follow the link in the show notes. That's schoolofpodcasting.com question.
- [44:01]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [44:02]
A
Hey, a little bit of housekeeping, especially if you are an affiliate for the school of podcasting. Did you know I had an affiliate program? Yeah. You can earn money referring people to the school of Podcasting. And to make a long story less long, I have moved from Zehnler to Heartbeat. I've used Heartbeat for years as my community and now I'm moving the courses over there, which means you need to update your affiliate link. So if you are using, you know, if you've been an affiliate for a while, you need to go to schoolofpodcasting.com affiliates and get a new link and replace your old one. And if you're not a current affiliate and you go, hey, I got people ask me all the time, how do I podcast? You know, and you think I should probably send them to Dave? Well, you can do that and then earn 20% of that revenue as long as they stay. So if somebody signs up and they stay for, I don't know, six months, yeah, 20% of everything they pay goes into your pocket. Check it out@schoolofpodcasting.com affiliates. I'm going to leave the old system up until the end of April. So at the End of April, if you haven't updated your links, they will probably be dead because I might use this thing. There's a new tool I found called this is the real name Redirect Pizza. And I might be able to update my old subdomain, which was learn.schoolofpodcasting.com that's where the courses were to community.schoolofpodcasting.com, which is where I have my Heartbeat tool. And why am I using Heartbeat and not Facebook? Because Facebook tends to, I don't know, make people's Facebook groups evaporate. I don't know, because I got kicked out of my own Facebook group because they said lunch with Dave is starting in 20 minutes. And I just don't trust them. So that's what I use for my community.
- [45:58]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [46:00]
A
Everything I talked about today you can find@schoolofpodcasting.com 977 and next week, if you're like, hey, what happened to the Question of the month? Next week will be doing the Question of the Month. And so if you added your answer, we're talking about, what, what AI are you using? And it's kind of interesting because it used to be, do you use AI? And now it's more, what AI are you using? So if you didn't answer that yet, it's too late. But you heard a new question of the month, and you can answer that one. So if you're wondering what happened, that's what's going on. Why did I switch things around? Because I'm going to podcast movement and I got to hurry up and pack. And this was an easier episode to edit than a Question of the Month because that takes a little bit of editing. And the show notes are horrendous because I've got to get everybody's URL, and so keep that in mind. Thanks so much for listening. If you know somebody with a smaller kind of niche podcast and they're like, I don't know if it's worth it. I don't know if I could ever get any kind of sponsor. You might want to just say, hey, go over to schoolofpodcasting.com 977 or if you're on your phone, you can just share it. And, hey, they're gonna think you're cool because you sent them this cool episode. And I get to grow my audience, which is a beautiful thing. Thanks so much for tuning in. Until next week. Take care. God bless. Class is dismissed. Like what you hear? If you like what you hear, someone.