Small Audience, Big Results: Making Sponsor Deals Work for Any Podcaster

Summary

School of Podcasting: Expert Tips for Launching and Growing Your Podcast

Episode: Small Audience, Big Results: Making Sponsor Deals Work for Any Podcaster

Host: Dave Jackson
Guest: Heidi K. Begay (RedHouseProductions.net)
Date: November 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dave Jackson interviews Heidi K. Begay, musician, educator, and podcast coach, about her success landing sponsorships for her podcast, Flute 360, despite having a small audience. Heidi shares her journey, strategies, and actionable tips on how any podcaster can pitch sponsors, foster true partnerships, and prove value—regardless of download numbers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

From Hobby to Business Mindset

• Heidi’s Background: Initially started her podcast, Flute 360, as part of her academic work.
  • "I treated my podcast like a hobby... I had this epiphany one morning. 'You're planting corn, but you want business results, AKA you want wheat, but you're still planting corn and expecting wheat.'" (Heidi, 01:30)
• Recognized the need to treat her show as a business to yield professional results.

Making the First Sponsor Pitch

• Proactive Outreach: Heidi decided to seek sponsors around episode 30, supported by her husband Eric.
• Targeted music-related brands: "I started reaching out to music branded companies, flute makers, flute shops, flute apparel, all the flute gadgets. And I kind of knocked on these virtual doors to these music brands..." (Heidi, 03:32)
• Despite imposter syndrome and uncertainty, persisted with a value-driven approach.

Resilience in the Face of “No”

• Overcoming Rejection: Drew confidence from prior experiences with rejection in academia.
  • "When somebody hears 200 no's, you have nothing to lose at that point and everything to gain." (Heidi, 04:43)
• Encourages podcasters to embrace rejection as part of the process.

Creating a Value-Based Pitch

• Pricing Creativity: Heidi bypassed industry CPM models in favor of researching what brands spent on music conference booths and similar sponsorships.
  • Developed sponsorship tier packages (bronze, silver, gold) with varied offerings.
• Key insight: "It's not just the ad read, it's not just the podcast download numbers... I help my people wrap it together like this beautifully presented package with a bow on top." (Heidi, 15:13)

Humanizing the Brand Conversation

• Partnering, Not Just Selling: Brands are often as unfamiliar with podcast advertising as podcasters themselves.
  • "They were very human... They never talked down to me... They leveled with me and they were very frank and said, we still don't know much about the podcasting world either, so can you inform us?" (Heidi, 07:31)
• Listening as a Differentiator: The turning point in her sponsor conversations was authentically listening and focusing on partnership goals.
  • "I really listened, and I think that was in my favor... I was genuinely coming in and saying, what's the win, win? How can we partner together?" (Heidi, 10:28)

The Art of Negotiation

• It’s a Dialogue: Formal perfection is less important than flexibility and openness.
  • "There's going to be a lot of back and forth... If you can have your listening ears readily available... there is room for negotiation." (Heidi, 12:08)

Beyond Downloads: What Sponsors Value

• Diverse Metrics Matter: Sponsors may care about mailing list numbers, social media engagement, YouTube presence, speaking engagements, and potential for creative collaboration (e.g., webinars).
  • "Other than downloads, what are they looking for?"
  • "YouTube is a big one. Mailing list is another big one... But another thing too that they ask is in what other stages or what other avenues would you be present in?" (Heidi, 17:38)
• Tracking & Proving ROI: Most sponsors just want the campaign properly executed; some will request stats or unique URLs, but many care more about professionalism and completion.
  • "Most of the time... they just want to know that it was done, that it was completed." (Heidi, 19:00)

Reframing Rejection and Going for It

• Don’t Self-Reject:
  • "You never know until you ask. Truly, truly... Don't already assume that the other person on the other side of the line is going to say, no... Most of the nos I have received... have come back later, 6, 12, 24 months later, saying, hey, it wasn't a good season then... but now it's a good time." (Heidi, 20:56)
• Emphasizes persistence, follow-up, and not burning bridges.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Heidi’s Mindset Shift:
  "You're planting corn, but you want business results, AKA you want wheat, but you're still planting corn and expecting wheat." (01:30, Heidi K. Begay)

• On Rejection:
  "When somebody hears 200 no's, you have nothing to lose at that point and everything to gain." (04:43, Heidi K. Begay)

• On Authentic Partnership:
  "They leveled with me... They said, you know what, we have ideas of how we want this partnership to go. There are certain things that we want you to match and certain criteria that we want you to consider, but at the same time, we're learning from you too." (07:31, Heidi K. Begay)

• Key to Success:
  "I listened from a very authentic place, and I think that was the turning point for them to realize... she's helping me rather than just seeing me write and sign a name on a check." (10:28, Heidi K. Begay)

• On Pitching:
  "It's not just the downloads, it's not the pre roll... There are so many creative ways... these brands can be visible, not just in the ad role, but in other sections of your podcast branding as a whole." (16:12, Heidi K. Begay)

• Final Encouragement:
  "You never know until you ask... If you can kind of reframe it and tell yourself, oh, it's a no for now... when they come back later, it may be a better opportunity for you because those nos that have come back to me have been with a bigger check because my numbers have gotten bigger, because the brand is bigger." (20:56, Heidi K. Begay)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:18] - Heidi’s background and starting Flute 360
• [02:36] - Treating a podcast as a business, not just a hobby
• [03:32] - First sponsor outreach: strategies and mindset
• [04:43] - Building confidence from repeated rejection
• [05:57] - Structuring and pricing the pitch
• [07:31] - Encountering and learning from sponsor decision-makers
• [10:28] - The power of active listening and building partnerships
• [12:08] - Negotiation as an iterative process
• [15:13] - Moving beyond CPM; packaging value for sponsors
• [17:38] - What sponsors value beyond downloads
• [19:00] - Delivering post-campaign value and reporting to sponsors
• [20:56] - Reframing rejection and keeping the door open

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Actionable Takeaways

• Don’t wait to have a “big” audience: Value partnerships can start small if you highlight your niche’s quality and engagement.
• Pitch with research and context: Use parallel industries for pricing inspiration; bundle sponsorships creatively.
• Be human: Approach conversations authentically, listen to sponsor needs, and brainstorm together.
• Negotiate openly: Expect dialogue and back-and-forth; perfect polish is less important than adaptability.
• Broaden your value proposition: Downloads matter, but so do your email list, social metrics, stage presence, and creative ideas for collaboration.
• Track and deliver what you promise: Set up mechanisms to confirm campaign delivery and supply stats if needed.
• Keep relationships warm: Even rejected pitches may bloom into deals months or years later.

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Further Resources & References

• Heidi K. Begay: RedHouseProductions.net
• Flute 360 Podcast
• Related School of Podcasting episodes mentioned:
  • Glenn the Geek (Episode 474)
  • Ray Arnott, Around the Layout (Episode 977)
  • Justin Moore, Sponsor Magnet

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If you’re hesitant to pursue sponsorships due to a small audience, this episode demonstrates the real power of tailored pitching, authentic relationships, and the long-term view. Persist, innovate, and never self-reject: “You never know until you ask.”

Transcript

[Dave Jackson]

Think you need a massive audience to monetize your podcast? Well, think again. Today's guest, Heidi K. Begay. Yeah. She's going to reveal the secrets of pitching your value and building a win win brand relationship from day one. Hit it, ladies.

[Heidi K. Begay]

The school of Podcasting with Dave Jackson.

[Dave Jackson]

Podcasting since 2005, I'm your award winning hall of fame podcast coach, Dave Jackson. Thanking you so much for. For tuning in. If you're new to the show, welcome aboard. This is where we help you plan, launch, grow, and if you want to monetize your show. We're talking a little monetization today with Heidi K. Begay from redhouse productions.net. i heard an episode of hers where she was talking about really kind of having a smaller sized audience, but she still got a sponsor. And what she does over there with her [e-mail] is they help podcasters launch and grow and monetize. And I heard that one and I was like, well, I gotta hear that story. So, Heidi, thanks for coming on the show.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Thank you, Dave, for having me.

[Dave Jackson]

You decided to call a sponsor and you had no idea what you were going to do or what to ask, and so kind of give us a little more of that background.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Oh, for sure. So, first and foremost, I am a musician and an educator and. And it's really cool, Dave, because my podcast flute to 360 was my dissertation for my terminal degree.

[Dave Jackson]

Nice.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Yeah. And so from there, it was a means to an end. Initially, it was like, okay, check off the box for research. I did, my eight episodes graduated, and I thought, okay, I'm going to be done as a podcaster. But actually, I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the people, the relationships, the networks, learning, continuous learning. And I continued the show. And. And so for the first 20, 30 episodes, I treated my podcast like a hobby. And as you know, if you want to do anything, well, you're going to put a little bit of blood, sweat and tears into your show in order for people to hear it, for it to be produced. Well, the content, all that jazz. And I had this epiphany one morning. Oh, you're treating your show, Heidi, like a hobby. You're planting corn, but you want business results, AKA you want wheat, but you're still planting corn and expecting wheat. And that aha moment was like, oh, I need to treat this more like a business venture and I need to see it that way. If so, I need to plant the right seeds to receive the right crop.

[Dave Jackson]

I know you've gone on to have great success with, with sponsors, both with your show and with other shows. So you had said, if I remember the story right, you were going to call. Did they call you or did you call them?

[Heidi K. Begay]

I called them. So to fast forward around episode 30, I said, Eric, I need to monetize this. He said, okay, Eric's my husband and he's the producer of the show. And he said, okay, well, what are you going to do? What's your train of thought? I said, corporate sponsorships. He said, okay, yes. Now, for context, he's been a podcast audio engineer for some big dogs many years up into that point. So in his mind, he's like, that's nice, Heidi. He's the number one huge supporter of my life. But he was like, that's nice. You may need a couple more downloads to consider that avenue.

[Dave Jackson]

So at this point, she was on around episode 30 of a show called Flute360.

[Heidi K. Begay]

I said, no, I can do this, I can do this. And so I started reaching out to music branded companies, flute makers, flute shops, flute apparel, all the flute gadgets. And I kind of knocked on these virtual doors to these music brands. Brands and said, hey, I have something here. I would love to feature you. I would love to see where you are in your business. I would love to come alongside you and listen to your needs. How can we partner together? And I put that CEO cap on. I was asking these curious, creative questions like, how can we make this work? I know I'm small, but at the same time, I know the impact, I know the value that I'm bringing, and we can definitely partner together to find that. Win. Win. So. So I knocked on their door and from there it was phone calls and me going, egags, I don't know what I'm doing. Deer in headlight moment. But that's the phone call that you're referring to.

[Dave Jackson]

Well, what I love about that is your confidence in your material. And it doesn't really sound like even though you admittedly, like, I'm not really sure what I'm going to do here if they answer the door. But you had that persistence of like, no, no, I'm going to make this work. Where do you think that came from?

[Heidi K. Begay]

It definitely came from a time in my life where I already heard a million no's in the traditional job market as a musician. I was already trained up. So as somebody with their doctorate, you go and knock on the traditional academic doors to be a music professor. And for context, those jobs are dwindling away. So every time I submitted my job application, I heard no, no, no times 100 in, in two years. So when somebody hears 200 no's, you have nothing to lose at that point and everything to gain. So that's why I had this like confidence of going any. And I'm saying that very loosely, I had this confidence of going, hey, I might as well knock on the door because I'm used to hearing no. So that's the thing that really jump started and gave me that boost to go in that direction just because of my history.

[Dave Jackson]

Yeah, that's where you've already learned that. Okay, I've heard 200 no's and I'm still here. So 201. Yeah, just throw it on the pile. I'm gonna keep on going. Yeah, I love that attitude. So when you got that meeting with them, did you have any kind of pitch or any kind of, you know, pre made thing you were ready to.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Spew with them a little bit? I had a rough idea of what my value could be. Obviously, as you know, when you type in how to get corporate sponsorships in Google, it's the CPM cost per meal thing. And it's like, oh, it's pennies on the dollar. So I just got really creative. What I did was, without giving away my value system, I basically decided, well, let me look at my music industry. What are music brands and companies paying for for a specific exhibitor booth cost at a music conference and a webinar? What are the costs to put their music logo in a program, in a recital, at an event? And so then I just started doing research in the industry of going, oh, these brands are paying X amount to be exposed in this way. Even though podcasting is a little different, I didn't have an exact formula that I could put put a price tag on that ad read for said company. So it wasn't like I was going in there going, I have no idea. I had a rough draft idea. I, I put together these tiers of bronze without sounding cheesy. Bronze, silver and gold. This is what you get per package. And I was just crossing my fingers and hoping that it made some business sense to them. And it did, because they didn't really negotiate too far off from my original draft.

[Dave Jackson]

Did they ask you any specific questions for somebody who's thinking of trying this? Like, what were they looking for?

[Heidi K. Begay]

It was interesting. What I learned from that was I was going in. That's why you were quoting that specific phone call. Because I was going in shaking in my boots. Because I was talking with the higher ups, people who had a name and a title with said music company, you know, chief marketing officer, so. And so I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm just Heidi. I don't know what the heck I'm doing. So I was assuming that I needed to sound like them and I needed to have this business jargon and everything. But come to find out, once the curtain was unveiled, I realized that they are more human, just like you and me, like anybody else. And that's what was so refreshing, because they were very human. They were just very down to earth. And even though I learned a lot from them and the way that they think and how the wheels in their. Their head turn, they. They leveled with me. They said, you know what, we have ideas of how we want this partnership to go. There are certain things that we want you to match and certain criteria that we want you to consider, but at the same time, we're learning from you too. We don't know much about the podcasting world, and so that was very humbling and very refreshing that they were human with me and didn't like, they never talked down to me. They never were like, oh, oh, we're the CMOs and you know, we know better. They leveled with me and they were very frank and said, we. We still don't know much about the podcasting world either, so can you inform us? So I say that for a podcaster out there who may be trembling in their boots thinking like, who am I to knock on this branded door with this fancy logo on this glass door, who am I? Well, you know, they. They have marketed through content conferences and programs and things like that, but maybe it's their first time partnering with a podcast show, and you can do a lot and team up and learn a lot from each other. So at the end of the day, there were some things that they were looking for, specifically where they were asking for their specific people in their company to maybe be featured on the podcast, for me to pick their brains. And that makes a lot of sense because it almost makes the partnership come to life more so than just the pre roll, mid roll or post roll ad read. So it's this packaging, and that's what I've learned these past seven years, is human connections. Finding that win win and having that company feel heard more so than just the actual 30 second ad read.

[Dave Jackson]

Yeah, it's more of an advertainment kind of situation. Right? It's education and it's an advertisement, but it. It's not quite so it's not so much this Sunday, Sunday kind of thing going on. Was there any part of the conversation that you said something that you, you know, you could kind of see things turning the right direction or any kind of turning point in the middle of the conversation?

[Heidi K. Begay]

I think definitely me listening to their wants and needs. I think the thing that was in my favor was they saw that I was genuinely, authentically not concerned, but concern for their needs and their. And hitting their marketing goals. I really listened, and I think that was in my favor in the sense of them going, oh, she wants to truly partner human to human, brand to brand, and she's just not knocking. Yes, the dollar amount on the check helps with podcast costs. Yes, of course. I'm not going to lie. I'm human. It does help feed the production bills, lips and things like that. But I was genuinely coming in and saying, what's the win, win? How can we partner together? And I listened from a very authentic place, and I think that was the turning point for them to realize, oh, she's coming in and seeing me as an entity and helping me, rather than just seeing me write and sign a name on a check.

[Dave Jackson]

Right. And I think you've got the right word there. It's a partnership, not so much a just, hey, I'm going to go talk to the checkbook.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Exactly. People can smell that from a mile away. Let me tell you that right now.

[Dave Jackson]

Well, that was what I was going to ask you, is you've now gone on to help other podcasters basically follow your blueprint as you've gone along. Are there any other insights that you found now going into these meetings now that you've. Obviously that was the first one. And as you. You grow, you learn and you do more. But any other insights for somebody thinking of trying this that they should know for sure?

[Heidi K. Begay]

And it really brings a smile to my face when I'm able to help my clients get those corporate sponsorship checks, because I'm like, yes, it worked for them, too. And it's really exhilarating because if they get to keep that, those podcast doors open for another season or another series, like, heck, yeah. You know, what I've learned along the way is you can use negotiation to be your best friend. A lot of people think too, like, oh, I have to have all my ducks in a row and I have to have all the black and white and I have to cross my T's and dot my eyes before I even send the first email. Yes, do your research. Yes, look professional. Yes, put something together like a Pitch deck. Yes. Bring the show and the stories to life through, you know, your email and sounding like a human being. But there's going to be a lot of back and forth. There's going to be a second email, a second call, there's going to be, hey, what about this? And if you can have your listening ears readily available and take the cotton balls per se out of the ears to really hear what they're saying, there is room for negotiation. There is room for, hey, what is that? Win, win. And I think a lot of people push that option off to the side because they think like maybe they, they have to be polished and ready to go, but that's not the reality. The reality is it is not a banter, but it's a conversation, a dialogue back and forth to find that agreement before signing that contract, saying, yes, this is what we all agree to. So negotiation.

[Dave Jackson]

People are going to ask about, well, I have no idea what to charge. How do you come up with that number? You just bust out the, the podcast pricing dartboard. Okay, you know, how does, how does that work?

[Heidi K. Begay]

Now, in, in my coaching, I do have a baseline and I preface it in my course. And when I work with clients who really want to monetize their show, I say podcast monetization. In the corporate sponsorship world, we've come a long way, but from what I've seen, it's still the wild, wild west. But here is my formula, here's my value based formula of what I have seen over the last seven years with my 30 to brand partnerships. What, what tends to get more yeses than anything. So in my mind's eye, from, from a business perspective, if 20, 25, 30, 40 companies of 40 different CEOs or CMOs are saying yes to the same formula in the same pricing point, you're onto something. Because they have a gauge of what their budget is internally. They know what they're spending their ad dollars on in other mediums like radio, YouTube, Google Ads, Facebook ads, et cetera. So they have a gauge of that. So when time and time again that formula comes up in these different CMOs and CEOs say, oh, that makes sense, then I know that my value based system is true. I mean, it's a good place to start, but from there there's different perks. Like if you have, say, for example, here's the million dollar coaching tip. It's not just the ad read, it's just not the podcast download numbers. That's why I can help a newbie podcaster sign a deal. Because I Help my people wrap it together like this beautifully presented package with a bow on top. It's not just the downloads, it's just not the pre roll. It could also be things that we fluff up to make the deal that much more exciting. Social media follows followers. It could be the mailing list, the click through rates, it could be the engagement, it could be, are you about to publish a book? What stages do you get onto? And it's the podcast is where the stories and the human connections come together. And that's just one piece of the puzzle. So to answer your question blanketly, there's my answer. I don't want to like flat out give you my exact formula. Not because.

[Dave Jackson]

Right. We can't give away the secret sauce. That's not fair.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Yeah. But I am being very transparent in and very authentic to tell you that I don't mind giving you part of the secret sauce in saying like, sometimes the CEOs are looking just only at numbers. They're looking at just the quantity. But I coach my people to say yes, that is true because obviously you want to have them put their money where they're going to get visibility. Right. Because we don't want to be dishonest. At the same time, you're painting this picture of here's the quantity, here's the numbers, but look at the quality, look at the connections, look at the followers, look at the engagement on my Facebook business page, look at my different programs I have. There are so many creative ways in which these brands can be visible, not just in the ad role, but in other sections of your podcast branding as a whole.

[Dave Jackson]

Do most people get excited more about email than YouTube or is it, does it vary from company to company? Because I the reason I ask ray [e-mail] does a show about model trains and he asked somebody once, just in the marketing company, it's like, how do you figure out who the influencers are? And they went and looked at YouTube, which is kind of depressing in a way. But have you seen like, what are people judging when it's not just the downloads. Is there something that, like what's their second go to?

[Heidi K. Begay]

YouTube is a big one. And also that mailing list, that's another big one. And then they're asking a lot of times like what's the open rate and what's the click through rate, things like that. But another thing too that they ask is in what other stages or what other avenues would you be present in? And they're asking that to the podcast host Are you going to be speaking on X stage? What about that upcoming webinar? Would you consider being a co presenter in this webinar together? These two brands coming together and being visible on this digital stage or physical stage. So you see a lot of creative solutions and creative ways where, where one medium may be really important to one brand, it might be something else to a completely other brand. It really depends on who they're targeting, what the industry is like and all that jazz.

[Dave Jackson]

Yeah. And again, if you don't want to do this, you can always go over to redhouseproductions.net and just have Heidi do it for you. But okay, your campaign's over. What have you put in place to prove that their ad was money well spent? How do you prove to them that, hey, I'm so glad we partnered on this? What are they tracking? What's the behind the scenes? How do they. Because they've got to have something to decide do we want to re up or not.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Most of the time, Dave, they don't ask for like actual numbers post campaign. All the really what I've noticed in a good, I'm taking a guesstimate here, like a good 30 to 50% of the companies I've worked with, they just want to know that it was done, that it was completed and that that evergreen link and their information through X amount of episodes was completed and I did it in the time frame that I said I would. So most of them don't ask for like hey, post follow up. I want to see those stats. A couple of them like good 25, 30% will say, yeah, how did we do? And they can track it a little bit better because they're the companies who gave me a very specific URL for the Flute360 campaign. Now if a company just gave me and they said, oh, we don't have a specific URL, just use our main website, well then that you can't really track that as much. So I coach them as much as I can saying, hey, ideally, you know, if I could grab X, Y, Z from you so that way you feel like you've been well taken care of. You feel like it's money worth spent. These are the things that I'm requesting and asking. But most of the times the companies will go through and give me everything that they need. And sometimes they're just like, oh, my regular URL is just fine. I don't need a specific campaign URL for you. But what I've seen is every company is so different. So some follow up, some don't. Some give me a specific URL. And. Yeah, and it really depends on what they're looking for. And I think, honestly, like, once they see the professionalism, they see the things they can check off the boxes, to them, it was a success.

[Dave Jackson]

What would you say to the person who's listening that's like, okay, I've been thinking about this. Maybe they think their audience is too small. What would be your, you know, the final words of encouragement here?

[Heidi K. Begay]

You never know until you ask. Truly, Truly. And what I've learned from the course of these last seven years, not just only as a host, but as a podcast coach, is going back to my history of trying to be a traditional music professor. It's devastating to hear no 1, 2, 5, 15 times, but by the 50th, 100th time, you've become a little numb to it. And you're like, oh, I'm in a playground. Oh, I can just play. Why not? So, really, like, you never know until you try and don't already assume that the other person on the other side of the line is going to say, no, don't do that to yourself. You're shooting yourself in the foot. You know what I mean? And it may be most of the nos I have received, Dave, through the sponsorship world, have come back later, 6, 12, 24 months later, saying, hey, Heidi, it wasn't a good season then because our marketing dollars were all spent up, but now it's a good time. Would you like to partner now? And so most of the times, like, if you hear that no, and you're like, oh, I hate rejection. Nobody likes rejection. We're humans. We don't like it. But if you can kind of reframe it and tell yourself, oh, it's a no for now, you know, and psych yourself up, it's a no for now. And they may come back later. And actually, when they come back later, it may be a better opportunity for you because those nos that have come back to me have been with a bigger check because my numbers have gotten bigger, because the brand is bigger than Heidi K. Begay. But now it's 360.

[Dave Jackson]

Yeah, a lot of times a no is a not now. So, yeah, don't. Don't take it, too. And because a lot of times people get upset and they just want to burn the bridge. I'm like, no, no, no, don't burn that bridge. They might come back later. You never know. And if you're a jerk because they said no, well, then they're never getting back.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Don't burn the bridge.

[Dave Jackson]

Yeah. Well, Heidi, thank you so much again. Everybody can find her [e-mail] and if you want to check out the flute show, it's Heidi K. Beghay. And Begay is B E G A Y. Heidi, thanks so much for coming on the show.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Thank you, Dave.

[Dave Jackson]

Hey, it's Dave. And normally I don't do Black Friday deals, but I'm doing one this year with my podcast audit service. And you're not going to believe all the stuff I'm throwing into this. I'm kind of sitting here thinking, am I really going to do that? But here's the deal. You give me an episode and point me at your website and I'm going to run them both through a 30 point checklist to uncover those opportunities to improve your podcast, to improve the reach and the engagement and of course. But wait, there's more. When you sign up, you'll get a free free month at the school of podcasting. Hooray. That's the courses, the community and the consulting. We'll talk about that in a second. That's normally 99 bucks. The auditing service is normally $180. And of course, with the school of podcasting, with your free month, you will get those five hours of one on one consulting with me. If you bought that standalone, that would be a thousand dollars. So if we do fun with math, add them all Together, you get $1,278 worth of value. It's an incredible package. And now through December 31st, it's yours for $99. So don't miss this chance because spots are limited and you can elevate your podcast without breaking the bank. Secure this offer today and watch your podcast thrive. Go to fixmypodcast.com order today. That's fixmypodcast.com right now. Want to know more about what I think when it comes to podcasting? Check out my [e-mail] that's podcastingobservations.com links in the show notes.

[Heidi K. Begay]

The school of podcasting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dave Jackson]

And as Heidi had mentioned, I was on her show called Red house Productions, episode 25 From Fear to Air. Dave Jackson's guide to confident podcast launching and marketing. And one of the things, well, the first thing that I loved about it is the fact that I always say when you go to start a podcast, and it's kind of a joke, but it's kind of not. You'll either end up with a successful podcast Or a great story about the time you started a podcast. And so here Heidi was getting rejected. And we all hate rejection. We all want to be like, we all want to be accepted. We all want to be valued. And 200 times, if not more, probably, she probably lost count. She heard no. And so she was just like, oh, I can just come out and play. I don't have to worry about this because they're going to say no anyway. I was just at podindi over with Dr. Brad Miller, and the speaker there was the one and only Dr. Craig Van Slyke from AI goes to college. And one of the things as Craig was making AI do all sorts of fun stuff. He said a great answer is, I don't know, let's give it a try. And so I love that Hadi was like, no, I know if I just keep going at this, it makes sense. I've got a show about flutes. I should be able to get somebody in the flute industry to partner with. And she wasn't quite sure what to say or what they were looking for, but she just tried it. So I love that part of the story. And I'll put some links to these other episodes. We had the one and only Glenn the Geek back in the day on episode 474, and she talked about getting pricing from other things. And Glenn actually, because he does the Horse radio [e-mail] and he went to all these horse magazines and looked at the little ads in the back because he knew those people had a budget. He then called the magazine and said, how much is it to get one of those little spots in the back page? And then he knew how much those people had paid, so he had a price. And then I'll put another link to episode 977, from model trains to Money monetizing your podcast. And that is with my buddy, I actually mentioned it here in the show, Ray Arnott from around the layout podcast, if you want to hear some more people, some podcasters talking about getting sponsorships. And it's really. I also put a link to the episode with Justin Moore, who is the author of the book sponsor Magnet, and he's all about creating partnerships, which is a lot of what Heidi was talking about. So if that's something you're looking for, they definitely pay more than the programmatic ads that you're going to get at some of these places where you can make money from day one. Well, yes, you can. And then you find out that you earn 17 cents. Where am I gonna be January 15th through the 18th in Orlando, Florida. I'll be speaking at the PodFest Multimedia Expo. Then February 17th through the 20th in Nashville, Tennessee, I'll be speaking at the NRB 2026 International Christian Media Convention. For more information, go to schoolofpodcasting.com where I feel like I'm creating Mutiny because I'm a musician. For many years, I never made a living as a musician, but I made a fair amount of money playing guitar in bands and that whole nine yards. And I know that there are tools that are making AI music. And this is a great example of Heidi talked about. Sometimes a no is a not now. I've run into that. I tried to interview Pat Flynn, who's a friend of mine for years, and he kept having kids and I'm like, come on, priorities. Come on the show. And I finally had him on the show because when he said no, it wasn't no. It was a not now. And so I first looked at this company, I believe it's called Suno or sunno S U N O. And they make AI music. And when I first heard it, I was like, this is never gonna be good. It was bad. And the little flute outro you just heard at the end of Heidi's interview. Yeah, that was A.I. that wasn't real. I don't know how it's created some sort of magic pixie dust that you sprinkle over things and sneeze at or something. So as a musician, it kind of kills me because I'm putting musicians out of work and you're going to hear this in just a second. But I paid a fair amount of money and it wasn't that the person overcharged me. But if you're going to pay a musician to write, record and sing an intro song, it's going to cost you hundreds of dollars. Now, you might be able to find somebody cheaper on Fiverr, but I don't know. I was listening to some show on the way back from Indy and they were talking about Suno. Oh, it was this old marketing with Joe Polizzi and his buddy, and they were talking about Suno and that guy was a musician and was explaining how he uploaded music and then the AI sang over. It was really weird. And he made up the lyrics and all. So with that said, let's go ahead and start the music here. And so this is AI and I used to play King's X but ran into a snag even though I had permission. And so I was at SUNO and gave it a Shot. And this is what it spit up about, you know, sharing the show. Please share it with a friend.

[Heidi K. Begay]

If you like the show.

[Dave Jackson]

Pretty, pretty please share it with a friend right now. Yeah, and I can fade that out so we can play bloopers, which we're gonna do here in a second. But the other thing you could do now, you had to upgrade to do this was I said, hey, give me just the music and the vocals. So there's a spot there where we just heard it, where he goes. And he's just going. Because I stopped the music there. And then I took another part of it. Now, keep in mind, I'm a musician, so I figured out where the beat was and I cut this out and I said, okay, I'm going to need this to play after my bloopers. And you'll hear this. But the thing that blew me away is I looked into their terms of service and I'm like, well, can I, can I play this on my podcast? And they said, if you're subscribed with a pro, which is what I paid for the $10 plan or premiere plan when the song was created, which it was, you are considered the owner of the song. You also retain the rights to commercial use. And commercial use would be a podcast, because even if you're not making any money, you want the commercial use. Or if you're on YouTube, even if you end your subscription, so you own the song, even if you end your subscription, if you're using the free version of Suno or Sunno, which is their basic tier, they retain ownership of the song you generate, but you are allowed to use those songs for non commercial purposes. Which means, basically, I just want to listen to it on my computer and nobody else. Right. It's not public, subject to your compliance with Suno, Suno, however you say it, terms of service. So here's how they break it down. A commercial use is putting your music on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube content, adding your songs to content on your monetizing channel. And if you go, well, I'm not monetized. Yeah, you're not now, but maybe you will be later. Direct sales. So selling your songs direct to consumers, sync licensing. So getting your songs placed in tv, film or videos. Now, unfortunately, they don't say podcast in there, but I'm just saying it looks like you want a commercial plan, which again is the pro plan, which for me was 10 bucks. So it sounds like if you want this, you could pay $10, go in, make your theme song, and then if you want to Cancel your subscription now. I'll have a link in the show notes if you click on that. It's not really an affiliate link, but I do benefit. I get like 250 free credits and so do you. And so it might be something again. Originally I said, oh, this is horrible. And even though I hate to say it, as a musician, I was like, that wasn't bad. For 10 bucks, I might reach out to my buddy Gordon Firemark. You might know him as the podcast lawyer, because, okay, AI made this song, but did they use somebody else's song to be shall we put up air quotes inspired by. So I'm a little nervous about using it. But if you're looking for free music and don't mind being a groundbreaking, you know, using new technology that may or may not entirely be legal, you might want to check it out. Links are in the show notes. Just go to schoolofpodcasting.com 1009 yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you need help starting growing monetizing your show, come visit me [e-mail] use the coupon code Listener when you sign up. I'm Dave Jackson. I help podcasters. It's what I've been doing for 20 years and can't wait to see what we do together. Until next week. Take care. God bless. Class is dismissed. If you like the show, please share it with a friend. If you like the show, pretty, pretty please share it with a friend right now. Heidi K. Begay from Red House Productions. Dotnet had to go look at the website real quick. Heidi K. Begay from redroof productions.net except it's not red Roof, it's Red House. Okay, we will get it eventually.

[Heidi K. Begay]

Yeah.