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School of Podcasting: Expert Tips for Launching and Growing Your Podcast
Podcasting in Six Weeks: My $1 Class to Get Your Going
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The microwave X rays and penicillin. What do these have to do with podcasting? Well, what it is is all of these started as accidents. Yeah. And today I want to talk about bringing that same experimentation that people had to dig a little deeper with those three items into your podcast. In fact, I'm going to be running an experiment as we speak. Hit it, ladies. The school of podcasting with Dave Jackson, podcasting SEN 2005. I'm your award winning hall of fame podcast coach, Dave Jackson, thanking you so much for tuning in. If you're new to the show, this is where I help you plan, launch and grow your podcast. Our website is schoolofpodcasting.com so, Dave, what is the big experiment? Well, I did one, I don't know, probably eight months ago, and I brought back podcasting in six weeks. And you might be thinking, I don't remember hearing anything about that. Yeah, because I did an experiment and only announced it in my newsletter. And the interesting thing was the results were not great. I mean, I still had people sign up, but it was not as many as I'd hoped. So I learned there. And that's the thing. You either win or you learn when you experiment. And so what this is, it's a six week course again? I used to charge $700 for this. I'm not this time. Great. Dave, what are you charging? 1400, 2000? No, I'm charging $1. And you might be thinking, wait, why? Why even charge if it's only a buck? Because I want you to have even ever so slightly, a little bit of skin in the game. So why is this an experiment? Well, number one right there, some people might go, well, that can't be any good because it's only a buck. Okay. I mean, what if nobody signs up? Okay, well, then we've learned from every one of those. I mean, the worst case scenario, I learn a ton of about perception, pricing and promotion. But how do I do that? I gotta be willing to try something new and if it doesn't work, go. All right, well, we can check that one off the list. And so the course, in case you're curious about this, the week one is gonna be all about planning. So we're gonna nail the concept, Your audience, your format, your show name, your description, and I want you to come up with 10 episode ideas. Now realize with podcasting, there's really no big reward by doing it quickly, and it's kind of hard to do it quickly. So I expect you to do the homework, hence I want you to pay something for this, because I want somebody who at least that small hurdle will come on board. Then week two, we're going to talk about your gear, and that will come about based on, you know, what kind of show you want to do, video, audio, whatever, how to set up your space, how to choose the software, all that stuff. Week three, we're going to get into recording. So interview basics, guest management, getting good audio, you know, sounding natural on the mic. Week four will be all about editing. So cut the fluff, polish the audio, build your intros and outros. Really, one that I see a lot of people need is staying organized with your files. That's all week four, Week five is your launch. So we're going to look at media hosting, your RSS feed, getting into Apple and Spotify and all the other major apps. So, and then week six, the last one will be your launch strategy. So basic marketing, repurposing content, all those things in six weeks. And so it's one of those things that we're going to do now to be fully transparent, here's, you know me, I like to pull back the curtain. We're hoping that at the end of six weeks, you go, this is really cool. I like working with this guy. And then you're going to join the school of podcasting. That's the goal, to get you used to learning from me. I'm not trying to hide anything here. That's the deal. That's the experiment. So we're going to try it and see what happens. Oh, but wait, there's more. That's right. When you sign up for this class, you'll get a couple extras like an equipment starter guide that I will make personally for you. We're going to have a 10 episode brainstorming planner that you can use to come up with ideas. You'll have a podcast launch checklist that will be all part of that. And the goal is again, to start your show in six weeks. I'll have a link to this in the show notes if you're interested. Again, it's only a buck. And no, that's not a typo. So if the theme of today's episode is this, you either win or you learn, that's really kind of it. I mean, unfortunately, I have not one, but two marriages under my belt that both ended in divorce. And I remember especially after my second divorce, which I man, I did everything I could to avoid that. And so when it failed again, that's a perception. Was it a failure? Well, I learned a lot from that particular situation. And so when you are making your content, whether it's weekly, bi weekly, monthly, whatever, you might end up. I saw someone on Reddit and they said, look, I'm stuck at 800 downloads. And they said they, you know, occasionally go down to 700. This was, I think, per episode, sometimes they go up to 900. And they were like, you know, what should I do? And I was like, well, something different is really the bottom line. You've learned. Congratulations, by the way, to get 800 downloads per episode. But if you want to grow, you got to try something new, because what you're doing isn't making it grow anymore. Maybe it could be as simple as asking your audience to share. You could, you know, change the episode titles to be more benefit oriented. You know, all sorts of things. Try, I don't know, you could try a whole bunch of things. We'll talk about how to test things. But the bottom line is, if you've been doing the same thing for months and it's not really doing what you want, go back a couple months and look at your numbers. Because so many times we are so focused on download numbers that we haven't noticed that they've been going up about 3% every month. And you used to have 10, and now you've got, you know, whatever, 24. Okay, well, that's, you know, you've doubled your downloads. Yes, it's only 24, but you doubled your downloads. So don't ignore the math. And it may be time to try something new. And we'll talk about that in a second. But about how do I test things? But the biggest reason is that you're afraid. In fact, the thing that got me about this person on Reddit that said they were getting 800 downloads, and I couldn't believe they actually said it out loud because I went to them and I said, look, the one thing that never goes out of style is an audience survey. And the reason you're probably sitting there thinking, if you're a regular listener to the show, Dave, you always answer that. And there's a reason for that, and that is nobody does it. And I don't understand why. Find out what they think about the current content and find out what they want and then give it to them. Once you give it to them, ask them to share your show in a slow, specific voice. And then the other thing you want to check is check your percentage complete stats. So many people, it's always interesting. It's like peanut butter and jelly. Dave, I want to hire you to help me grow my audience. Oh, by the way, the content is fine. That is literally almost the way it comes out. And then when I go, well, let's go look at your completion stats. And they go, okay, what is that? And I go, you can go into Apple and Spotify in their back ends and see how long people are listening to your show. And they're like, oh, I didn't realize I could do that. And I'm like, yeah, check this out. And then they go, oh, it says 28. Is that good? And I go, no, that's out of a hundred. Seventy would be almost acceptable, you know, and then another thing, make sure it's easy to follow your show on your site and never say the phrase find me wherever you find your podcasts, because in some cases you've sent your audience into a goose chase. You know, don't send your audience onto something that they may not find. Make it easy to follow the show. And they replied back. The audience survey is something I've avoided because I was scared of the answers. But you're probably right, that's the point of doing it. Yeah. So I was so happy that this person said it out loud. But here's the thing, you have to think about it. If you are out there in some cases spending money to market your show and it's not resonating with your audience, you're wasting your money. You're lighting it on fire. And I get it. When I was in college, I went twice. I have a two year degree and a four year degree. And when I went back to get my four year degree, I had test anxiety. I'd started this at the end of my first degree and it came with me back. And I think the reason it got worse is my first degree was in electronic engineering and I was playing cards with the guys, I was hanging out. I didn't take school as seriously as I should enough to where I got the grades to pass, but they were not, you know, exceptional. And so now I was coming back to get my teaching degree and I was trying to get good grades. And here's the thing, when you get meh grades, you know, B's and C's, the occasional A, when you get those kind of grades, it's easy to go, wow, you know, I was busy playing cards and I was the editor of the student newsletter, you know, so that's why the grades weren't that great. But if you try to get good grades and you don't, well, then it's really easy to come to the conclusion of maybe I'm Stupid. Maybe my brain is broken. I don't know what's going on, but I was really freaking out. And I remember once, I mean, I did the homework this time. I actually did. I read the stuff you're supposed to read. And for the record, school is really easy if you do the homework I did. Not the first time. And the grades did that. But I had a hard time recalling the information. I remember I was taking a psychology class. It was one of my favorite classes. And I had read a book, and they said, if you have test anxiety, close your eyes. And as vividly as you can, picture yourself completing the test, walking down the steps, putting the. The test on the teacher's desk, going over, picturing your hand grabbing the handle, opening the door. And now you see yourself in the hallway. And I thought, that's got to be the biggest, you know, poppy cock is what my grandma used to say. And. And I did it, and it worked. I was amazed. And so what happens if you try to make good content? You send out a survey. And the worst thing ever, right, Is when you send out a survey and you don't get any results. Oo, zing. Well, number one, you have to ask for it. I would do that at the beginning of the show, and I would do it for about a month, if not six weeks. And if you get no response, guess what? You can do whatever you want to that show because you're not resonating with anyone. Yeah. Does that hurt? Yeah. But at least you know now so you can do something different, because whatever you're doing now is not working. No child wants to play with a Charlie in the Box. That's a good thing. It hurts, it's a hurdle. But you find out what's not working, and you can try something else. So keep that in mind. That your podcast, I say it all the time. It's a recipe. It's not a statue. And you can do that so you can reframe your fear, because so many times, like, well, if I change anything, I'll lose my audience. And that's really not the case. I don't know that I've ever done anything, and my entire audience walked away. Hmm. Well, it needs work. I have to go. I'll give you a quick example. One of the things I'm doing right now is I'm dealing with a leaky basement. And the really bad news is I just got out of debt for the first time for, like, I don't know, at least the last 15 years. I've been paying off debt that from divorces and all sorts of stuff. And I finally got out of debt. I know how to get out of debt. And doggone it if this basement, after I spent, I don't know, four months out of debt, put me right back in it, because it's expensive to have your basement fixed. And I was like, ah, awful. Awful, right? I hate it. I'm back in debt. But I also then looked at myself and said, well, yeah, but you know what? You're really good at getting out of debt. You've done it before. And so if you change something on your podcast and you had 800 downloads and you try something for a month and it goes down to 700, well, guess what? You know how to get 800 downloads an episode. You've done it before. So do that and try something else and you'll see where your numbers come back. And then you go, well, maybe I'm going to update my title of my episodes. I'm going to take the episode numbers out because nobody cares what the episode number is. And then you're going to try that. And maybe now that people can see your full episode title and it's benefit driven, it's not just, you know, interview with Dave Jackson. It's, you know, Dave Jackson tells you how to grow your audience. Oh, okay. People might want to click on that. And you can try that. You've done this before. If you experiment and things go a little backwards, that's okay. Then you know, that doesn't work and you can try something else. Now if you're gonna experiment, you want to do it smart. And it really boils down to this. Like, you could say, oh, Dave, you just mentioned a couple of things. I'm gonna. I'm gonna start doing individual artwork for my episodes. I'm going to change my title of my episodes and I'm going to write longer show notes so that they're at least 300 words. Well, don't do all of those at once, because if that works and you start to see a more increased number of downloads or maybe your completion percentage or all sorts of ways, we can talk about that too, but you don't know which one worked, which means this is going to take some time. It's going to take some time. So you can say, look, I'm going to purposely work on better episode titles. Great. Do that for at least a month, if not six weeks, and look and see what were your previous six episodes? What was the average? And what was the average for the new six weeks? Is it better or worse? Okay, it's better. Great. Keep doing that. Now let's write more longer show notes and we're going to kind of try to squeeze in some keywords. Great. Do that for six weeks. And I'm assuming here you're doing a weekly show, you're doing daily. Well, then you could do it for two weeks. But you get the idea because if you change a bunch of things at once and something works, then you don't know which one worked. But if you're flat and you're not moving, you might as well try something because the one thing we have learned is what will get you to whatever level you're at. So run it for a set period, look at the data and then decide, am I going to keep doing this or did this make no change at all? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Dave, what should I be changing? There are so many things you could try. I've already named a bunch of. So again, do these one at a time. Again. I think the biggest one that people just blow it on is your episode title. Write it so then it's a benefit. And remember, please remember that your episode title is a promise to your audience. And the sooner you get to that, the better they're going to feel about that. Another thing is your show notes. So again, I would shoot for a minimum of 300 words. That's a lot of words, especially if it's only a 10 minute show. But give the apps like I know in Spotify, your episode description is searched. Not so much in Apple. And Apple is just the episode title, the episode or the podcast name and the podcast description. But they don't. At least as of April or, or now, May20, 26, they don't. You could promo swap with similar podcasters. So you create a 30 or 60 second promo. You swap it, you play it on theirs, they play it on yours. Maybe you just do a shout out, whatever it is, do something with other people who you share an audience with and that could be, you know, a full interview, whatever you want to do. But aim to be on other shows that are sharing your audience. So if I go on a show about, I don't know, smooth jazz, great, who doesn't love smooth jazz? But do those people want to start a podcast? I don't know, maybe a couple of them. But if I talk to authors or anybody who's trying to bring attention to, to their products and services, that would be a much better audience for me. So the idea is to find someone who shares your audience and they have a podcast and see if you can do a promo swap. Again, do not underestimate. In real life, I know a lot of us are introverts, but over the weekend, I went to my beloved Luigi's Pizza. I have an Akron podcast that I do. I was in Akron, Ohio, and so I accidentally littered around the restaurant with business cards, stuck a couple in some windshields. And you know, what's the worst thing that could happen? I don't know. I get arrested for littering with business cards in downtown Akron. But it does have QR codes I haven't checked my stats to see. And that's the other thing. When you're experimenting, do something to track the results. I've talked about in the past, I use a link shortener called Switchy. And on my Akron podcast business card, I have a QR code that is tied, that was created by Switchy. So I can see is anybody scanning that QR code? And then I can look and see, well, wait, we had whatever. Nine people scanned the code on Friday night. What did you do differently? Oh, that's right. I went to where my audience is people that live in Akron, Ohio, and. And I handed out a bunch of business cards. Huh. Maybe I should do more of that. Whereas if I take links and start putting them on Twitter and on Insta and on threads and Blue sky and all the other things, and I see that, wow, I'm getting zero clicks from pasting things into social. Either a, the title and the links and things like that that you're doing on social or off of, they're awful. You know, things like, new episode is out. Oh, boy, does that make me want to click. But maybe you had a really good, you know, hey, click here to find out how Jim quadrupled his downloads. Okay, I would click on that. But if you did that and you. You had a nice, you know, link tracker on that, and you still see that it got zero downloads, well, then maybe social isn't the way to go. And in just a second, we might want to get our head out of the download cloud and look at something else, because there are a lot of ways you can benefit from your podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, are you frustrated with your website? Well, then you need to try PodPage, where every other company is putting some level of AI between you and and them. PodPage has new user orientation every Tuesday, where a good 40% of that is open. Q and A. And if you're stuck on anything, you can schedule a live call and get your questions answered live. PodPage is not just the best website creation tool for podcasters. It also offers the best support. Start your free trial today by going to podpage.com preview. Want more podcasting tips? Join the 1700 people who read my newsletter at podcasting observations.com that's podcastingobservations.com the School of podcasting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when it comes to measuring your success, there are all sorts of things you can use. Newsletter subscribers. Is your network growing? Is your wallet getting fuller? Right, Monetization. A lot of people use downloads. That's fine. That's a metric. But there are tools now coming on the scene, things like Pod SEO. If you use the coupon code SOP10, you'll save, I believe it's either 10% or $10 off of your price. Asha has one, and then I'm playing one right now that's free and it is called podanalyst.com and I gotta tell you, be careful what you wish for, because I'm looking at. You can go into a tab called Episodes. And then I said, show me performance. And I'm looking at, let's go. Stop pushing your listeners away. The big podcasting pet peeves and how to fix them. That particular episode after 30 days is down 13% compared to another episode that's been out 30 days. It says, Day 27, 193 listens. The average is 223, which is down 13.6% from your average. There's a lot of data you can get in here that a will suck up your time, so be careful. But they make it easy to figure out are things going good or bad? Basically, are they green or are they red? Because maybe we need to start counting listeners and actual listeners, people that have consumed it, which is hard to do because a download, we don't know if somebody listens. But when you look at completion percentage, that's pretty cool. And so if you want to play with pod Analyst, you go in, you have to add a couple things to give them access to your stats in Apple and Spotify. Now, you're not giving them access to change anything. They can just read it. And so it's interesting because that will give you maybe a little more idea of how things are going. But also I love the fact that it's comparing you to you because in a way, podcasting is a lot like golf or bowling. You're only as good as your last game. And I went in and looked at my completion percentage, and that led me to believe I really should stop right now. About 20 minutes is where it seems like a Lot of the people that listen to this show start to slowly taper off. So maybe they're listening on the way to work, who knows? And that's something I could consider, but these are the things that you should be looking at. It's one thing to do the experiment. Great. Now go look at the results. And to look at the results, you have to know, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to make sure people are engaged? Okay, look at your completion percentage. Are you trying to get more email subscribers? Great. Are you trying to get more sales? Then you need to look at your calls to action, all those things, and you can try them and realize that not all of them will work. And then you'll find the one that does, and you keep that one and you go back and test something else. As a teacher, when you design a course like the one I talked about at the beginning, it's at the end of this course, the student will be able to blank and that could be identify such and such or actually do a skill. But you have to determine, why am I doing this and what do I want to accomplish at the end? And it works the same way. When you're designing a course, what do you want the students, the participants, to be able to do or understand when they leave the classroom? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got some great clips coming up from two friends of mine that just celebrated 500 episodes. Stick around for that. And we've got a podcast rewind. Oh, where am I gonna be August 21st through the 23rd? Charlotte, North Carolina. Empowered podcasting three. I went last year and the minute it was over, I'm like, I'm going back to this one. You gotta check out this one. Especially designed for independent podcasters with the maximum, maximum capacity of 250 people. I love that because I get to meet everyone. Check it out. Empowered podcasting dot com.
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Ooh, now that's a good question.
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Most of us use some sort of remote recording for interviews, etc. Etc. And most of us have gone through more than one. So think of a new podcaster. They say, I want to record remotely. Who do you recommend and why? And then let us know any horror stories from previous ones you've used. I need your answer by May 22, 2026. And don't forget to say a little bit about your podcast and your website. Just go to schoolofpodcasting.com? by May 22 or. Or click the link in the show notes. The school of podcasting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it when the Good guys win. And I had not one, but two friends of mine that are great people. Matt Kundell of the Soundoff podcast, he celebrated 500 episodes. The episode is called Podcasting Truth and Myths Learned. And then my buddy Thomas Umstadt Jr. Who is the king of just everything books. You can find him@authormedia.com his was 500 episodes. My worst takes and mistakes over 500 episodes. And if I didn't say it before, you can find matoundoffpodcast.com of course, I'll have the links to both of these. But let's start off with Matt. And I heard this and was like, oh, preach on, brother. Preach on.
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So often people are paying too much attention to the video side of things and not enough on the audio side. They realize they're on video and they come off mic a little bit and they figure they, oh, now they need a lapel mic and dual cameras. What the f for? We have worked with over 100 podcasts for over 10 years at the Soundoff Media Company. The number of shows that have clocked higher for video than audio is zero. I also asked my podcast super friends if they have any podcasts that are scoring higher in video than audio, and there's only one, and they are paying to have that YouTube channel boosted. And by the way, when I'm making my comparisons between video and audio, I'm meaning like 1 second of video time compared to 1 minute of audio time. These numbers aren't even close. Audio is king here.
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Yes. Freechon the king of Canadian podcasting, Love Match show, and congrats on 500 episodes. Also podcast Super Friends, another great show. And I'll link all of those out@schoolofpodcasting.com 10:34 along with Thomas's comments.
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Podcast hall of fame podcaster Dave Jackson roasted me for recommending condenser microphones on his podcast Radio podcast. You know what? He was right to do. So it was hard to hear at the time, but it was exactly what I needed to hear. And I have changed my ways. I have repented. Dave Jackson was right. And if we ever disagree on podcasting matters, always listen to Dave Jackson.
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Well, first of all, congratulations on 500 episodes. And congratulations on another bun in the oven. Thomas has a lot of kids, and they are all very lucky to have him as a father. And the thing I really liked about that episode was the part where Thomas was kind of throwing himself under the bus, where he was saying, hey, here are all the things that I predicted that were true. And here are some things that were Actually, in some cases they were true and whatever, 2013, they're not anymore. And there are some things he just blatantly got wrong. And I really love the transparency. And it was amazing because he had a section called Rug pulls. And it's amazing how many times we put our faith in Facebook and Google and YouTube and all these other things, and they just pull the rug out from underneath of us. And to hear them just back to back to back to back. There is a site if you just Google. Google Graveyard. It's amazing how many products that I used to use that Google went, yeah, not anymore. So congratulations both to Matt and and Thomas on 500 episodes and great job, boys. In case you missed it, it's time for a podcast rewind. I was on the Insight on Business with Michael Libby. We talked a lot of things about podcasting and PodPage, but when it came to starting a new podcast, this came out of my face. And they hear things like, wow, the great thing about podcasting is it's, it's so authentic and all you have to do is be consistent. And I have a T shirt that says, not every conversation needs to be a podcast. Because, I mean, I talked to my best friend, I've known him for over 40 years. And if we turn that into a podcast, like we laugh all the time because we have 40 years of, you know, inside jokes. And so when he says Wiedem and beer, I'm like, you know, but my audience would be like, what's Wiedemann beer? I also appeared on the New Media show with Rob Greenlee, and we were talking a little bit about the Podpage and School of Podcasting merger. The idea why it's such a great fit is the number one reason why people leave PodPage is not because they hate PodPage, it's because they quit podcasting. And so if I can help them use some best practices, set realistic expectations and get them going in the right direction, well, then they don't quit. Well, if they don't quit, then they still need a website and consequently it kind of all pays for itself. So again, penicillin was created when someone noted that the bacteria in a petri dish was getting killed by mold. The microwave was invented when somebody noticed that a chocolate bar near a radar machine was getting melted. I'm from Akron, Ohio, and that back in the day was the rubber capital, which, by the way, when you're a 13 year old boy, is absolutely hilarious. But by mistake they accidentally put rubber and sulfur and heated it together. And that invented vulcanized Rubber, which made it much, much tougher. So these little experiments by diving into things can lead to a whole bunch of stuff. I mean, the thing with Matt and Thomas, they talked about the things they had tried over 500 episodes. And it really often doesn't hurt to play when I talk with PodPage customers. A lot of times I might just go play with your website. You can't really break it. And so the other thing I just realized, I forgot to mention the podcasting in six weeks course that starts June 3rd. So if you're interested in that, again, it's only a dollar. And if you're looking for coaching along with classes, will then become a full member of the school of podcasting. And again, that comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. So if on day 29 you're like, yeah, this isn't for me, we'll refund your money. Links to everything out@schoolofpodcasting.com 1034 and we're gonna do this. All right. So one thing I did, and this came to me while I was taking a break. I started off the show talking about the six week course, and then later when I was talking about experimenting, I said, you need to figure out what your outcome is. And I said, it's kind of like when you teach a class like the one we're teaching that's called a callback. And it's just a way to kind of keep that in the brain of the listener. Like, oh, yeah, we got this course going on without being super salesy. The other thing I did was I listened to Author marketing with Thomas Umstad Jr. And I listened to the Soundoff podcast and I use Pocket Cast. I love that app. If you want the same feature I'm going to talk about, it's also in Podu Rama and that is bookmarks. And I love the fact that when I heard these, I made a bookmark in my Pocket cast. I then pulled it up on my computer because you can listen on the web, you can listen on a computer, you can listen on your phone. And I saw where the bookmark was, so I simply downloaded their files, went to that, you know, time spot, and it saved me a huge amount of time of making those clips. Now with the new media show and the other show, I don't listen to shows when I'm a guest. I might listen to the intro, but I was kind of there, so I know what the answers were. And so what I did with those was I had them transcribed and then said, hey, find some pull quotes by Dave Jackson in this interview. And it gave me a few. I picked one I thought that was going to deliver value. And I said, also give me time stamps. And so that, again, saved a huge amount of time. And that's about the AI used, besides the fact that the barbershop quartet that we just heard was generated by AI. And as I was preparing to record this the other night, I was like, I could just feel myself being all over the place. And so what I did was I hit record and just voiced everything I wanted to say. And I got done, and it was, I don't know, probably 25 minutes. And I then took that, transcribed it. I use OTTER for transcriptions or other things I could have used, because Otter behind the Scenes is using, I don't know, ChatGPT or whatever. And I said, hey, here's my transcript. And I didn't want to write a script. I'm not a big fan of reading scripts. I just said, I'm a little all over the place because I was. I said, can you help me pinpoint the main points I'm trying to make? And it did. And I said, and can you organize those into an outline? Which it did. And that saved me. On the other hand, I didn't have as many bloopers because I knew what I was going to say and I said it. And it was in a much more. What's the word? Structured way that I wasn't quite so ADHD the way I am, because I had started here, and then I went into the future, and then I went back to college, and then I went here, and I was like. And when it. Spit it out, it's like, that is much more easier to follow than the ricochet rabbit of Dave's typical brain. And so that's another thing I did to, you know, behind the scenes here. Now, I don't normally recommend that you would do a behind the scenes because most people don't care how the sausage is made, but this is a podcast about podcasting, and I'll also have a video. If you want to join the school of podcasting, there is a free version, by the way, when you go to sign up, click on change and you can join for free. Now, again, that's limited access, but I'll be putting a video of some of the tools I mentioned today as I was playing with them. So it's a great community. If you haven't joined, check it out. School of Podcasting. And if you haven't figured it out, this behind the scenes of the show thing, that's an experiment.