Science In Action – Wet Market SARS CoV-2 Origins Revisited

BBC World Service | Host: Roland Pease | Air date: April 24, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of Science In Action grapples with three unfolding science news stories:

1. The latest genetics research into the origins of SARS-CoV-2 and its link to the Wuhan market.
2. Major funding cuts to research into misinformation in the US.
3. Political threats to government-funded university science, including at Harvard University.
   It closes on a lighter (and stranger) note, exploring a carnivorous caterpillar’s bizarre adaptations in Hawaii.

1. Revisiting the SARS-CoV-2 Wet Market Origins (02:03–12:36, 14:20–14:23)

The Question

Renewed US political scrutiny (White House web pages refocusing on the “lab leak” hypothesis) put viral origins center stage again. This episode revisits the scientific search for definitive answers.

Key Discussion Points

• The Scientific Consensus: Most evidence points to the Huanan seafood market as site of the initial animal-to-human SARS-CoV-2 jump. Two genetically distinct lineages (“A” and “B”) appeared in Wuhan, possibly via multiple spillovers from animals.

• New Chinese Genome Sequences: Researchers Flo de Bar (Sorbonne University) and Zach Hensel (New University of Lisbon) found newly available early 2020 sequences. Their analysis doubles available data of early cases but still finds no intermediate genome bridging A and B lineages—strengthening the two-spillover hypothesis.

  “There are no early intermediate genomes between A and B, and these additional data still don’t have early intermediate genomes between A and B.”
  – Flo de Bar (07:51)

• Accessing New Data: The sequences were in open-access Chinese databases but largely overlooked. Some sequences from Wuhan hospitals, others from Beijing (possibly infected by travel from the market).

  “Some of the most important data has been online since the beginning of 2024... How much it’s new data is an interesting kind of question.”
  – Zach Hensel (04:09)

• Genetic Clues: Some new sequences from January 2020 can be traced back to the market by unique mutations, confirming spread from market-originated chains.

  “We can link them to the market for some of them because they have mutations that are not found elsewhere.”
  – Flo de Bar (09:15)

• No Paradigm Shift, But Increased Certainty: Absence of intermediates further confirms market spillover; a single intermediate strain could still upend the narrative, but so far, none exists.

  “The most important thing would have been if we found a sequence in between the lineage A and lineage B, and there is nothing.”
  – Zach Hensel (10:08)

• Why Keep Searching? The researchers describe a duty to “test the hypothesis with every bit of new data” as science should continually self-update.

  “We’re trying to get the best answer we can with all the data we can gather, and that’s why we keep looking for more data.”
  – Flo de Bar (11:13)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• [06:08] Roland Pease summarizes the significance: “You’ve got… the B, which actually became the one that dominated the world, and the A, and they are visible… in the market and in early cases… they’re different by two mutations… but there’s none which only has one difference.”

• [10:23] Pease articulates the crux: “That would have forced a rethink. So in a sense, passing that test just gives you more certainty… or confidence.”

2. Research Funding Cuts for Misinformation Studies (14:23–22:30)

The Issue

The US National Science Foundation cut its portfolio of research grants combating misinformation, citing alignment with new administration priorities—effectively ending hundreds of projects.

Key Discussion Points

• Sudden Cancellation: Dr. Lisa Fazio (Vanderbilt University) describes the abrupt cancellation of her grant and many peers’ projects, with little explanation besides a vague decrease in alignment with “priorities.”

  “NSF has undertaken a review of its award portfolio… the agency has determined that the termination of certain awards is necessary because they are not in alignment with current NSF priorities.”
  – Lisa Fazio, quoting NSF (15:37)

• Research Focus: Fazio’s work examines how false beliefs form, the psychology of repetition bolstering truth-feelings, and how to effectively debunk misinformation.

  “When you hear something multiple times, it feels a little bit more true… so we were looking at how this plays out in daily life… and how we can correct them.”
  – Lisa Fazio (17:13)

• Free Speech Concerns: The stated reason for defunding is to avoid government interference with free speech. Fazio stresses research aims to educate and inform, not censor.

  “Providing more information… isn’t censoring anyone. That’s adding more free speech to the discussion.”
  – Lisa Fazio (19:09)

• Wider Impact: Cuts span a wide spectrum—psychology, computer science, AI, education—on topics from detecting deepfakes to media literacy. The whole misinformation research ecosystem was hit.

  “[NSF] canceled what seems like hundreds of grants on Friday…”
  – Lisa Fazio (20:31)

Memorable Segment

• [21:21] Fazio captures the stakes: “I think it’s obvious that this is a topic that we would want the top scientists in the US to be studying… all of whom were looking at this problem in a variety of different ways.”

3. Political Threats to Science Funding: The Harvard/White House Clash (22:30–30:53)

The Situation

US federal funding to universities—especially elite ones like Harvard—faces new political threats tied to disputes over free speech and campus anti-Semitism. The change could strip billions from flagship science programs.

Key Discussion Points

• Major Achievements at Risk: Don Ingber, founding director of the Wyss Institute at Harvard, lists global-impact work in rapid COVID-19 diagnostics, organ-on-chip technology (reducing animal testing), and biotech startups, all dependent on federal funding.

  “Just the Wyss Institute… about 375 full time staff. We’ve created over almost 70 startup companies that have led to 2,000 jobs… These are high paying jobs and they’re also leading to good things that will help all mankind.”
  – Don Ingber (26:41)

• Breadth and Importance of Federal Funding: Government grants (NSF, NIH, DARPA, BARDA, DOE) are vital for advanced research, American technology leadership, and training of international talent.

  “This is a really international success story.”
  – Don Ingber (24:30)

• Economic Return on Investment: Scientific funding yields high economic payback along with health and environmental benefits.

  “For every dollar invested by NIH, it was something like $2.5 that have come back in terms of economic payback.”
  – Don Ingber (26:41)

• Consequences of Funding Threats:

  • Loss of global and domestic talent (“brain drain”), with young scientists considering leaving the US.
  • Negative effects already seen, such as cancelled contracts, revoked visas, and withdrawal of job/internship offers.

  “The number of applications to international jobs from scientists looking to leave the United States has gone up… this is a brain drainage. This is a negative brain drain to what America was always proud about in the 50s…”
  – Don Ingber (30:03)

• Political Leverage, Not Performance: Ingber points out that top-performing researchers—even those with recent national honors—are being targeted, not for under-performance, but for punitive political reasons.

  “This has nothing to do with failure to perform. This is purely… pure punitive lunacy.”
  – Don Ingber (28:37)

4. The Carnivorous Caterpillar: Hyposmocoma Bone Collectors (31:20–38:46)

The Story

Ecologist Dan Rubinoff (University of Hawaii) shares the remarkable tale of an endemic Hawaiian caterpillar with a gruesome yet ingenious survival strategy.

Key Insights

• Unique Evolution:

  • These “bone collector” caterpillars live in Hawaii’s forests, spinning protective silk cases decorated with the carcasses and body parts of their host spiders' prey—and even bits of the spider’s own shed skin.
  • This case-camouflage helps them avoid detection by their main predator/landlord: spiders.

  “They are taking bits of arthropod… and importantly, bits of the shed skin of that spider and incorporating it into their cases to protect themselves from this spider landlord. And that’s incredible.”
  – Dan Rubinoff (32:36)

• Lifestyle & Diet:

  • Unlike typical caterpillars, these are carnivorous scavengers and occasional cannibals.
  • In the lab, they’ll eat Drosophila pupae, dead insects, and even smaller caterpillars of their own kind.

  “The only thing it’s able to capture and eat is another one of its brethren… it chews through the silk case and is eating it alive in its little home.”
  – Dan Rubinoff (36:17)

• Rarity and Conservation:

  • Hawaii is the world’s extinction capital; many of its remarkable invertebrates, including these caterpillars, disappear before being scientifically described.
  • The fragility and under-studied nature of Hawaii’s insects is highlighted.

  “Hawaii is the extinction capital of the world. We have lost so many different animals and plants… especially in the insects, where I would say we’re still halfway to describing them all here.”
  – Dan Rubinoff (37:54)

Memorable Moment

• [37:28] Rubinoff’s enthusiasm for their ingenuity: “I am telling you, these caterpillars are underestimated, sir. And not just these bone collectors, but that entire group, Hyposmocoma. They are all case makers and they do spectacularly different things in oddly specific ways.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:03] – Origins of SARS-CoV-2: US policy, new genome data
• [04:09] – Zach Hensel explains new sequence discoveries
• [06:34] – Discussion of two early lineages (“A” and “B”), absence of intermediates
• [09:15] – How mutations link some cases back to the market
• [10:23] – The significance of missing intermediates
• [11:13] – The continual scientific search for answers
• [15:37] – Lisa Fazio: sudden cut in NSF grant for misinformation research
• [17:13] – Details of misinformation research
• [20:31] – Hundreds of grants cut, effects on the field
• [22:30] – Don Ingber on science funding threats at Harvard’s Wyss Institute
• [26:41] – Return on investment for public science funding
• [30:03] – Brain drain and chilling effect of political pressure
• [31:20] – Bone collector caterpillar: ecology and adaptation
• [37:54] – Conservation concern for Hawaii’s unique insects

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Science and its Funding Are Political: Both COVID origins research and misinformation studies are buffeted by government priorities and ideological tides in the US, with broad impacts on public knowledge, innovation, and the global reputation of American science.
• Wet Market Evidence Holds Strong: Despite renewed scrutiny and more data, the zoonotic (market spillover) origin of COVID-19 is further supported—not undermined—by new genomes from early 2020.
• Nature Remains Full of Wonder (and Danger): Amid heavy topics, the tale of Hawaii’s bone collector caterpillar is a reminder of evolution’s creativity and the pressing need for conservation.

Produced by Alex Mansfield for BBC World Service.
Host: Roland Pease