Podcast Summary: Science of Perception Box – "Is Time Real? How Your Brain Perceives the Past with Dr. Lila Davachi"

Release Date: March 6, 2025
Hosts: Dr. Heather Berlin & Dr. Christoph Koch
Guest: Dr. Layla Devaucci, Neuroscientist at Columbia University
Platform: Available on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, etc.

Introduction

In the episode titled "Is Time Real? How Your Brain Perceives the Past with Dr. Lila Davachi," the esteemed hosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch delve into the intricate relationship between time perception, memory, and our subjective experience of reality. They are joined by Dr. Layla Devaucci, a leading neuroscientist whose pioneering research explores how our brains encode and retrieve memories, and how these processes influence our perception of time.

1. Perception and Memory: Foundations of Our Reality

The conversation begins with a discussion on how perception and memory interplay to shape our understanding of the world.

• Dr. Christoph Koch emphasizes the deliberate choice in what we remember, stating, “I choose to primarily remember good things about the world” ([03:05](# timestamp)).

• Elizabeth Koch builds on this by explaining, “So basically, if we both encounter the same scene or other people encounter the same scene, what people remember from that scene can vary based on what their sort of perception is” ([03:36](# timestamp)).

Dr. Devaucci adds depth by explaining how emotions influence memory differently:

“Negative experiences produce a very vivid memory, but that memory is fragmented and it doesn't include the context, what happened before, what happened after... But positive experiences tend to produce more flexible integrated memory...” ([04:16](# timestamp)).

2. Positive vs. Negative Experiences and Memory Encoding

A significant portion of the episode explores how emotional valence affects memory consolidation.

• Dr. Devaucci elaborates that while negative experiences activate the cortex leading to fragmented memories, positive experiences engage the hippocampus, allowing for more detailed and flexible memories ([05:39](# timestamp)).

• Dr. Christoph Koch notes the difference in memory retention based on emotional context: “Patient who doesn't have a hippocampus anymore because it's been surgically removed, they would not remember. Truly negative aversive” ([05:56](# timestamp)).

Notable Example: The famous patient HM, who despite lacking a hippocampus, retains aversive memories demonstrated through behavioral responses, illustrating that some memory traces remain unconscious without hippocampal involvement ([06:10](# timestamp)).

3. The Purpose of Memory: Building Knowledge Over Mere Recall

Dr. Devaucci challenges traditional notions of memory by proposing that its primary function is not just to remember but to understand and interact with the world.

“Memory is there to help us understand the world, to build knowledge... What you're relying on the most about your memory is forgetting” ([08:12](# timestamp)).

She further explains that during sleep, particularly slow-wave sleep, the brain consolidates important memories while discarding irrelevant information, emphasizing the role of memory in survival and knowledge acquisition ([09:23](# timestamp)).

4. Time Perception and Its Subjective Nature

The heart of the discussion revolves around whether time is an objective reality or a subjective construct of the mind.

• Dr. Devaucci argues, “Time itself doesn't really exist in memory... it's really about where we're putting our attention, our internal mental context” ([20:57](# timestamp)).

• Elizabeth Koch probes deeper, asking if memories can distort the perceived duration of events, to which Dr. Devaucci confirms that subjective time can vastly differ from objective clock time ([21:45](# timestamp)).

Key Insight: The brain captures moments as discrete snapshots rather than a continuous flow, leading to memories that may not accurately reflect the passage of time.

5. Impact of COVID-19 Lockdown on Time Perception

Reflecting on the global pandemic, Dr. Devaucci discusses how prolonged periods of sameness can alter memory formation and time perception.

“There was no beginning and middle and end. We were always in the same context... So we're all left with very few memories from the pandemic” ([24:52](# timestamp)).

This lack of novel experiences during lockdowns resulted in fewer event boundaries being marked by norepinephrine and dopamine release, leading to a "collapsed" sense of time in retrospective memory ([24:50](# timestamp)).

6. Flow States and Temporal Distortion

The hosts explore flow states, where individuals become deeply engrossed in activities, leading to altered time perception.

• Elizabeth Koch shares personal anecdotes, such as her experience during childbirth, where labor felt like an extended period but was recollected as a brief moment due to the intense focus and emotional salience ([30:04](# timestamp)).

• Dr. Devaucci correlates this with her own labor experience, contrasting the prolonged, less memorable labor with the vivid, concise memory of the birth moment ([31:14](# timestamp)).

Conclusion: The perception of time is highly malleable, influenced by emotional states, attentional focus, and the novelty of experiences.

7. Personal Experiences and Therapeutic Implications

The discussion shifts to personal narratives and their implications for mental health and therapy.

• Dr. Devaucci recounts overcoming a fear of flying using propranolol, a beta-blocker, which helped dissociate the physiological fear response from the memory of flying ([18:26](# timestamp)).

• Dr. Christoph Koch and Elizabeth Koch share their own experiences with intrusive memories and the desire to manage or re-encode them through therapeutic techniques like cognitive behavioral therapy ([14:31](# timestamp)).

• Dr. Devaucci highlights the challenges in altering deeply ingrained memories but notes that repeated reactivation can offer opportunities for subtle changes ([14:12](# timestamp)).

8. Flow States and Productivity

The hosts briefly discuss the concept of flow states in relation to productivity and mental well-being.

• Dr. Christoph Koch likens flow states to scenes from The Matrix, where time slows down, allowing for heightened awareness and performance ([20:39](# timestamp)).

• Elizabeth Koch mentions achieving flow during activities like painting, where time seems to fly by unnoticed ([30:04](# timestamp)).

9. Strategies for Optimizing Time Perception and Memory

In closing, the hosts discuss how to balance moments of stability with novel experiences to foster better memory formation and time perception.

• Dr. Devaucci suggests incorporating periods of both stability and change to enhance brain health and memory consolidation ([29:37](# timestamp)).

• Elizabeth Koch encourages listeners to experiment with their own perception boxes by answering targeted questions and engaging in practices that can shift their time perception and memory encoding ([36:33](# timestamp)).

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Layla Devaucci:

  "Time itself doesn't really exist in memory... it's really about where we're putting our attention, our internal mental context." ([21:45](# timestamp))

• Dr. Christoph Koch:

  "I choose to primarily remember good things about the world." ([03:16](# timestamp))

• Elizabeth Koch:

  "Imagine waking up and thinking, well, what do I want to do today? What do I want to accomplish?" ([34:51](# timestamp))

Conclusions and Insights

The episode elucidates that time perception is a subjective construct heavily influenced by memory, emotion, and contextual novelty. Positive and novel experiences tend to engage the hippocampus, fostering detailed and flexible memories, whereas negative or unchanging contexts may lead to fragmented or sparse memory encoding. The interplay between neurotransmitters like dopamine and norepinephrine at event boundaries is pivotal in how memories are formed and time is perceived.

Personal anecdotes from the hosts and Dr. Devaucci underscore the practical implications of these findings, particularly in therapeutic settings where altering memory perceptions can aid in overcoming fears and traumatic experiences.

Closing Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a "Perception Box" question, inviting listeners to introspect and engage with their own memory and time perception:

Question: "What is the one memory that you keep on returning to? Is there sort of a dominant memory that you keep on returning to? And why would that be?"

Dr. Christoph Koch shares his experiences of a near-death incident and a mystical experience that continually resurface in his memory, highlighting the profound impact emotionally significant events can have on one's perception of time and memory.

Final Remarks

Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch thank Dr. Layla Devaucci for her insightful contributions and encourage listeners to explore their own perception boxes by engaging with the provided questions on their website unlikelycollaborators.com. They also prompt audiences to subscribe to their YouTube channel and other podcast platforms to continue the journey of redefining reality through the Science of Perception Box.

This summary captures the essence of the podcast episode, highlighting the key discussions on time perception, memory encoding, emotional influences, and the subjective nature of our reality as explored by the hosts and Dr. Layla Devaucci.