Disclosure Day and the science of alien language

Summary

Science Quickly: "Disclosure Day and the Science of Alien Language"

Host: Rachel Feltman (Scientific American)
Guest: Jeffrey Punsky, Associate Professor, School of Languages and Linguistics, Southern Illinois University, Carbondale
Date: June 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the fascinating intersection of linguistics, science fiction, and real possibilities around extraterrestrial communication. Timed with the release of the blockbuster film "Disclosure Day," host Rachel Feltman discusses how alien languages are constructed for movies, what linguists think real alien language might be like, and what it could actually take to communicate with intelligent life beyond Earth. The guest, linguist Jeffrey Punsky, brings expertise on both human and constructed (fictional) languages, exploring how these imaginings can reshape our understanding of linguistics and the possibilities of first contact.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Alien Language in Pop Culture (01:11–03:36)

• Spielberg's Film & Human Interest
  The episode opens with Steven Spielberg’s comments about the layered themes of "Disclosure Day":

  "It’s a story about extraterrestrial… contact, communication, interaction. But it’s also a story about secrets. It’s a story about the unknown. And it’s also a story about why should the unknown be known by some people and not all people."
  — Steven Spielberg (01:31)

• Fiction vs. Linguistic Reality
  Rachel introduces Jeffrey Punsky to examine cinematic representations versus actual linguistic possibilities.

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2. The Realities of Constructing Alien Languages (03:36–06:49)

• Origin of Punsky's Interest
  Jeffrey’s path: from teaching constructed languages to exploring their value in understanding both human and potential alien communication.

  "How can we utilize this sort of concept of thinking about aliens, thinking about communication, to better understand what we know about human language?"
  — Jeffrey Punsky (02:48)

• Movie Alien Languages: Limits and Choices
  Most "alien" movie languages are constrained by the needs of human actors and Western linguistic norms:

  "We end up with aliens that have a physiology that is virtually identical to humans… their vocal tract is identical to a human… produced in the Western context, they’re going to be utilizing the sound systems that are like languages we find in Western European languages."
  — Jeffrey Punsky (04:24–04:54)

• Clicks and Pops: Are They Actually Alien?
  The popping and clicking sounds often used in sci-fi films do exist in real human languages, notably among some southern African languages:

  "They use a differential air pressure within the aural track to sort of create these pops and clicks… But they are mixed in with other sounds… much more occasional than what we see in movies."
  — Jeffrey Punsky (06:05)

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3. Alien Language and Linguistic Theory (06:49–08:39)

• Studying Alien Languages Broadens Linguistics
  Thinking about non-human language helps set boundaries and expand our understanding of what language is, and what might be universal to all communication systems (not just human ones).

• What Could Cross-Species Communication Look Like?
  The most likely candidate for initial interstellar communication is mathematics, given its universality with technology-driven civilizations:

  "Probably mathematics… some sort of communication that is related to mathematical operations… That’s probably our best bet."
  — Jeffrey Punsky (08:39)

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4. Empathy vs. Math as the Universal Language (09:20–10:17)

• Hollywood’s Take vs. Scientific Perspective
  "Disclosure Day" explores interspecies communication as a blend of empathy and mathematics. The show features a clip from screenwriter David Cope:

  "Math, I mean, there’s the famous quote: the language of the universe is written in math. But… they go together, don’t they? Because to understand someone, you must speak their language… don’t you need both?"
  — David Cope (09:59)

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5. Fictional Language Favorites & What Makes Them ‘Alien’ (10:17–11:47)

• Klingon and Tolkien Languages
  Jeffrey Punsky’s favorite constructed language is Klingon:

  "It is designed in such a way to be so alien. So it uses object, verb, subject… in Klingon you would say ‘pizza ate me,’ which is very unusual."
  — Jeffrey Punsky (10:33)

• He also appreciates Tolkien’s languages for their influential role in constructed language artistry.

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6. First Contact: Pragmatic and Biological Challenges (11:47–14:26)

• How Would Linguists Start Communication with Aliens?
  "Arrival" gets the science right: begin with basic naming terms and work out from there, but strategies depend on modality of contact (face-to-face, signals, etc.).

• Beyond Speech and Hearing—Modality Matters
  Alien language could use senses humans don’t use for language, such as smell:

  "Signed languages, which use gesture and the visual system… are fully formed languages… There’s modalities we don’t use. We don’t use smell. And there’s no reason to think that an intelligent alien species may not utilize some of these other types of modalities that would make this sort of cross species communication almost impossible or at least extremely difficult."
  — Jeffrey Punsky (12:00)

• Aromatic Language as a Thought Experiment
  Rachel and Jeffrey riff on the challenge of a "smell language":

  "I was always second guessing myself, and now I’m just imagining that, but also trying to make sure that I’m producing the right smell at the right moment. Terrifying."
  — Rachel Feltman (13:52)
  "Smells would stick around. So you could have like layered things that we just don’t have in human language."
  — Jeffrey Punsky (14:10)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Spielberg on Secrets and the Unknown:

  "It’s also a story about why should the unknown be known by some people and not all people." (01:31)

• On Movie Aliens' Human-like Speech:

  "We end up with aliens that have a physiology that is virtually identical to humans… their vocal tract is identical to a human." (04:24)

• Real Click Languages:

  "There are languages that utilize click sounds… primarily spoken in southern Africa, but they’re mixing these clicks into the sort of other types of sounds that we’d be very, very familiar with." (06:05)

• Math as the Universal Language:

  "Probably mathematics… some sort of communication related to mathematical operations… That’s probably our best bet." (08:39)

• Communication Modalities:

  "There’s modalities we don’t use. We don’t use smell. And there’s no reason to think that an intelligent alien species may not utilize some of these other types of modalities that would make this sort of cross species communication almost impossible or at least extremely difficult." (12:00)

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Memorable Moments

• Rachel’s Parenting Anecdote:
  Rachel jokes about teaching her seven-month-old that lip buzzing might be an essential part of language. (06:49)

• Fanciful 'Smell Language' Discussion:
  Imagining the cognitive hurdles of spelling in smells rather than tones or sounds. (13:52–14:10)

• Klingon Hamlet on the Shelf:
  Jeffrey reveals he has Hamlet in Klingon on a nearby bookshelf, a testament to his fondness for constructed languages. (10:29)

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Key Takeaways

• Most movie alien languages are limited by human actors’ physiology and cultural biases.
• Real human languages already contain many strange-sounding features found in fictional alien speech.
• Constructed languages and the idea of alien communication help linguists probe the boundaries and universals of language.
• True alien contact is likely to involve mathematics, but empathy remains a core human value in communication.
• Future communication with extraterrestrials could be challenged by differences in sensory modalities—aliens might communicate in modalities unimaginable to humans.

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Listen Further

• Full interviews with Steven Spielberg and Disclosure Day screenwriter David Cope are available at ScientificAmerican.com and Scientific American’s YouTube channel.

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This summary skips advertising and non-content sections to focus on the core scientific discussion and insights for listeners or readers wanting the essential substance of this Science Quickly episode.

Transcript

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[Rachel Feltman]

For scientific american science quickly. I'm rachel feltman. Today marks the release of one of the summer's hottest blockbusters, Disclosure Day. Here's what director Steven Spielberg had to say about the film in a recent interview with SIAM's Associate Books Editor, Bree Kane.

[Steven Spielberg]

This was a human interest story, you know. And yes, it is a story about extraterrestrial, you know, contact, communication, interaction. But it's also a story about secrets. It's a story about the unknown. And it's also a story about why should the unknown be known by some people and not all people.

[Rachel Feltman]

You can check out Brie's full conversation with [e-mail] or on our YouTube channel. But for today's episode, we decided to take a closer look at one of those themes in alien communication. What makes a language sound alien enough for a sci fi film? And what do linguists think it would actually be like to try to understand an extraterrestrial visitor? My guest today is Jeffrey Punsky, an associate professor in the School of Languages and Linguistics at Southern Illinois University, Carbondale. And while he's an expert in real, actual human language, he's also spent a lot of time thinking about alien speech, from how Hamlet might sound in Klingon to why math might be the best way to communicate with alien civilizations. Thanks so much for coming on to chat with us today.

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure to be here.

[Rachel Feltman]

So how did you get interested in the idea of alien languages?

[Jeffrey Punsky]

So that's a really interesting question. I got into this in a sort of sideways way when I came to siu. I started working with students on projects related to constructed languages and invented languages. Ended up editing a book on that through Oxford University Press on How to use embedded languages to sort of reach students and teach them about linguistics. And from that, I sort of made these connections with some folks that had some affiliations with organizations that are sort of interested in questions of extraterrestrial communication. And I really approach this question as well. How can we utilize this sort of concept of thinking about aliens, thinking about communication, to better understand what we know about human language? So that's what really interested me about this topic and how I started to get involved in it.

[Rachel Feltman]

Very cool. So our excuse for chatting with you about linguistics is the new movie Disclosure Day. And I read an interview, actually, where Emily Blunt said that she sort of went into the studio and made as many strange noises as she could make with her body to give them stuff to work with to create this pivotal scene where she's, you know, a conduit for alien language.

[Accenture Advertiser]

Let's, let's.

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Today is today's.

[Rachel Feltman]

But my understanding is that's often not how languages are constructed. Could you tell us a little bit about what the process often looks like in a fiction?

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Oh, absolutely. So, you know, normally when we're talking about a fictional context, we're talking about, you know, needing human actors, I guess, like Emily Blunt, but human actors to be able to perform these languages. And so we end up with aliens that have a physiology that is virtually identical to humans. I think, you know, Star Trek is such a great example of that, where you. Everyone looks like a human, but maybe they have a slightly different thing on their head or.

[Rachel Feltman]

Yeah, so many different kinds of nose bridges.

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Exactly.

[Rachel Feltman]

The galaxy.

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Exactly. But their vocal tract is identical to a human. You know, obviously they're all speaking English because of the universal translator and things like that. But, you know, you need to have human actors that are producing these languages. So we're going to stay in the realm of things that are producible by our physiology. And more often than not, because these are being produced in the Western context, they're going to be utilizing the sound systems that are like languages that we find in Western European languages. So that puts a pretty big limit on the types of things that we are, you know, looking at. And when we think about an alien context like Disclosure Day, the physiology of these other types of potential alien species could be so radically different that we wouldn't be able to necessarily produce those sounds.

[Rachel Feltman]

Yeah, well, and just on the topic of the sounds being used, something I noticed about the little bit of alien language in Disclosure Day was that there was a lot of sort of popping and clicking, which you also see in The Aliens franchise. And like you said, when we think about what makes a language sound alien, we're often coming from this very Western context. Are there human languages where those sorts of sounds are actually used?

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Absolutely. So there are languages that utilize click sounds. So these are sounds that involve a different type of vocalization where they, rather than pushing that air up through our lungs and, you know, producing the sounds that I'm producing right now, they use a differential air pressure within the aural track to sort of create these pops and clicks. Now they also utilize those other sounds. So, like, you hear about these African clicking languages. They're all languages primarily spoken in southern Africa, but they're mixing these clicks into the sort of other types of sounds that we'd be very, very familiar with. So the types of clicking that we saw in the trailer is not like a human language where these clicks are much more occasional.

[Rachel Feltman]

I have a seven month old and sometimes I stop and think about, you know, how obvious it is to me what sounds I'm making to him that are, you know, linguistic and which ones aren't. I am a little concerned that I have got him believing that lip buzzing is like a really important aspect of our language. So we'll see what happens with that. But anyway, I would love to hear more about, like you said, how studying, you know, these fictional alien languages and talking about them can help us think more broadly about linguistics and about the search for alien life.

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Sure. So I think starting with that first question of how does this help us better understand linguistics? I think taking a step outside of what we know about humanity and what we know about the sort of languages that we've already encountered, the sort of universals that we've been able to identify, and taking a step out and saying, well, what does that mean if we weren't looking at humans? Are those going to be the same types of things? Are those the same types of expectations that allows us to sort of better understand the limits and nature of sort of language within that human context. So I think that it really is helpful for us to be able to take that outside view and sort of look at things as if we weren't just talking about humans. And I think that's, again, really what drew me to this idea of exploring alien languages. Obviously, some of the folks that are involved in this are very interested in the potential of communication. I'm definitely more on the skeptic side of that, but I think it does create some interesting questions about what are the types of messages that might be receivable? What are the types of things that we would expect, maybe if we were to receive that, we'd be able to translate. And if a potential extraterrestrial intelligence was to receive that, they would be able to say, oh, yes, this is an intended message of communication.

[Rachel Feltman]

Yeah. And what do you think that message could look like?

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Probably mathematics, some sort of mathematical operation, some sort of communication that is related to mathematical operations, because we know that for them to receive a message, they would have to be probably through something like radio signals. So they would need to have developed a degree of technology that would require some sort of mathematics. So there would need to be some sort of understanding of that, and that's probably our best bet. But, you know, the types of messages we have sent now, these are not messages that are likely to be received, but, you know, the Voyager plaque and things like that are much more representative and maybe things that are much harder for non humans to understand.

[Rachel Feltman]

I'm really glad that you mentioned math, because we have a relevant clip from a recent interview. Basically, in Disclosure Day, there's a character who's able to understand aliens, essentially using math. And without giving too much away, there's sort of this intermingling of deep, very human empathy and cold, hard math that facilitates interspecies communication. And they're kind of treated like two sides of the same coin. Our associate books editor, Bri Kane, talked to Disclosure Day screenwriter David Cope about that in a recent interview. So here's a short clip. I wanted to ask you. What do you think the true language of the universe is? Empathy or math?

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Well, math, I mean, there's famous quote is the language of the universe is written in math. But you know what? They go together, don't they? Because to understand someone, you must speak their language.

[Accenture Advertiser]

You must.

[Jeffrey Punsky]

And if math is the language by which we are relating, don't you need both?

[Rachel Feltman]

Just a reminder, listeners, you can check out Bree's full Disclosure day [e-mail] or over on our YouTube channel. So, Jeffrey, what are some of your personal favorite constructed languages from fiction?

[Jeffrey Punsky]

So I have a soft spot for Klingon.

[Rachel Feltman]

Don't we all?

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Yeah. My mother, years ago gave me a copy of Hamlet in Klingon. It's actually on the bookshelf back there. I moved it in this room for today. So I have a soft spot for Klingon. Now. I haven't studied them in, like, great detail. I'm certainly not one of these folks that can, like, speak a constructed language or use a constructed language, but I enjoy Klingon in Part because it is designed in such a way to be so alien. So it uses object, verb, subject, it's object first, which is unlike human languages, we like to put either our verb or our subject at the start of the sentence. So in Klingon you would say pizza ate me, which is very unusual. It also utilizes a bunch of sounds that are done in a sort of unnatural way. So it feels very alien. But you know, you also have to go back and think about the Tolkien languages, the original behind the sort of construction of independent languages. But you know, I think it's such a cool creative project for folks to do to sort of think about developing a language that is completely disconnected from, you know, what we use in our day to day life and apply it to these sort of fictional settings. So I applaud anyone that really gets involved in that hobby.

[Rachel Feltman]

So if you were the guy there when we made contact with intelligent aliens, what would your first step be in trying to establish communication?

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Oh wow, that is such a difficult question. You know, I think it would depend so much on how the message was received. So, you know, if we think about these science fiction contexts, a ship lands and aliens walk out, well, that's going to change the way that we try to communicate. I think staying in that sort of realm of science fiction, I think the film Arrival does a really great job of encapsulating the sort of linguistic processes that would occur within that. So you would try to establish just some basic naming terms, something that would allow for some degree of cross language communication and work from there. Now if we received a radio signal, there could be a lot more planning involved in sort of decoding and preparing a message back. So I think the nature of contact would inform that so much. I think one thing that is really important to think about with language when we look at human language is that it's modality nonspecific. So we normally think about language in terms of sounds and our auditory hearing or maybe reading. But signed languages which use gesture and the visual system are fully formed languages. And you can even have languages that are communicated through touch. But at the same time, there's modalities we don't use, we don't use smell. And there's no reason to think that a intelligent alien species may not utilize some of these other types of modalities that would make this sort of cross species communication almost impossible or at least extremely difficult. Because the way that the olfactory system works is so fundamentally different than the way say, the auditory system works. And smells linger in the way that sounds don't or gestures don't. So it would be a really interesting challenge if that's the type of communication system that an intelligent species is using.

[Rachel Feltman]

Wow. Mandarin in college. And as someone who wasn't raised in a tonal language, the tones were very hard for me. I was always second guessing myself and now I'm just imagining that, but also trying to make sure that I'm producing the right smell at the right moment. Terrifying.

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Yeah, exactly. And then. Yeah. And spells would stick around. So you could have like layered things that we just don't have in human language. You know, you can get some layering, particularly in sign languages with facial and gestures, but nothing like you could get with an olfactory system.

[Rachel Feltman]

Wow. Very cool. Thank you so much for coming on to chat. This has been really interesting.

[Jeffrey Punsky]

Yeah, thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.

[Rachel Feltman]

That's all for today's episode. We'll be back on Monday with something very special. A celebration of Scientific American's first ever class of young American scientists. Tune in to hear from a maverick astrophysicist about her journey from the seeking theater stardom to studying the stars. Science Quickly is produced by me, Rachel Feltman, along with Fonda Mwangi, Sushmita Paddock and Jeff d'. Alvisio. This episode featured additional reporting by Bri Kane and was edited by Alex Seguiera, Mariel Issa and Erin Shattuck. Fact check our show. Our theme music was composed by Dominic Smith. Subscribe to Scientific American for more up to date and in depth science news. For Scientific American, this is Rachel Feltman. Have a great weekend.