Transcript

Wendy Zuckerman (0:00)

Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman, and you're listening to Science Verses. This is the show that pits facts against phones. Today on the show, how do we stop scrolling? Just last week, in a landmark case, Meta, which owns Instagram and Google, owner of YouTube, were found negligent for basically creating addictive products that harmed a young woman's mental health. A huge slap to big tech today,

Chae Jeong Kim (0:33)

a landmark verdict that could change the face of social media.

Listener/Caller (0:37)

Deliberately and negligently design their products.

Meryl Horne (0:39)

To get young users hooked on the

Senior Producer/Interviewer (0:41)

apps, they kept her endless scrolling, constant notifications, algorithms that learn exactly what keeps you watching.

Wendy Zuckerman (0:50)

The tech giants have been ordered to pay her $6 million. They're appealing, but this case has reignited a huge conversation over how these apps can just suck us in. The woman's lawyer said during closing arguments that these apps are, quote, Trojan horses. They look wonderful and great, but you invite them in and they take over. Which, away from this case, is exactly the way that a lot of our listeners have been feeling about these apps. I want to use my phone less obviously. Like everyone else. I've been trying to quit for the last two years. It has gotten worse.

Listener/Caller (1:31)

I want to stop doom scrolling. This feels like I'm constantly consuming something off of a screen.

Wendy Zuckerman (1:37)

Surveys find that over half of adults in the US Want to spend less time on their phones.

Listener/Caller (1:43)

My mental health is just better when I'm off social media and it's hard to get out of the scrolling.

Wendy Zuckerman (1:49)

So the question we have for this episode is this. Given that so many of us feel hooked, is there any way to unhook ourselves to stop scrolling?

Senior Producer/Interviewer (2:00)

Rather ironically, online you can find tons

Wendy Zuckerman (2:04)

of people claiming that they've found the answer.

Meryl Horne (2:07)

These are five really simple brain tricks that can help you break social media addiction and stop doom scrolling.

Summary

Science Vs – "How To Stop Scrolling" (April 2, 2026)

Host: Wendy Zuckerman
Produced by: Spotify Studios
Main Theme:
This episode investigates why many people feel hooked on mindless scrolling through their phones, delving into the psychological and technological factors that drive this behavior. The team dissects popular self-help advice and rigorously examines what science says about strategies to break free from habitual scrolling––from harsh lockouts to tiny nudges, friction-stacking, and an unexpected grayscale trick.

Episode Overview

Triggering Event: A recent court case against Meta (Instagram) and Google (YouTube) found the tech giants negligent for creating addictive products, reigniting public debate about social media’s irresistibility and impact on mental health ([00:00]–[00:50]).
Central Question: Is there an evidence-based way to "unhook" ourselves from endless scrolling or are we at the mercy of our devices?
Expert Guests: Dr. Chae Jeong Kim (Chungnam National University, South Korea) and Dr. Leah Christin Vicard (University of Koblenz, Germany).
Co-Host & Researcher: Meryl Horne, Senior Producer.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Is Scrolling Worse Than Other Phone Use?

Studies show that people regret scrolling (aimless consumption) more than other phone activities (e.g., messaging, information search).
- Instagram Regret: "After they went on Instagram, they would say that I regretted that like 42% of the time" ([06:23] Meryl Horne).
Mechanisms: Instant dopamine hits/rewards explain persistent use ([07:03] Meryl Horne).
Scrolling Feels Bad: It’s described as "meaningless" more than other activities.

2. The Friction Factor: “Hardcore” Interventions

Research with App-Based Lockouts

App: Goalkeeper tests different levels of intervention ([09:12] Meryl Horne):
- Warning-only: Simple notification about time use
- Temporary lockout: Short-term block from the phone
- Strong lockout: Full lockout from phone use (except calls) until midnight
  - Findings: This reduced phone use by ~75 minutes daily.
  - Drawbacks: High frustration, stress, and inconvenience in everyday life. "People really didn't like it...they felt more frustrated and coerced..." ([11:17] Meryl Horne).
Internet Cut-Off Study: Many participants refused or cheated, highlighting the difficulty of adopting extreme "cold turkey" solutions ([12:10] Meryl Horne).

3. The Gentle Nudge: Do Soft Pop-Ups Work?

Simple Pop-Up Reminders:
- Apps that ask "Do you really want to open this app?" on user-defined "blacklist" apps.
- Result: About 10–15% reduction in app usage ([14:44] Meryl Horne).
- Effectiveness: Marginal; described as "barely effective" in meta-reviews ([15:05] Meryl Horne).
- Participant Attitude: Too easy to override––"I just automatically ignore it every single time" ([15:35] Meryl Horne).

4. Friction-Stacking & Gamified Barriers

Increasing the Hurdle

Strategies: Hiding apps, using "Brick" (physical device to unlock apps), or apps that require action (e.g., photographing yourself "touching grass") ([16:23] Listener/Caller, [16:28] Meryl Horne).
Study Example: Entering a 10- or 30-digit code to access blacklisted apps.
- Effect: Many gave up; nearly half abandoned the attempt ("Almost half the time...f this it’s not worth it" [18:04] Meryl Horne).
- Unexpected Consequence: When they get in, users binge—spending more time in the app during fewer but longer sessions ([19:17] Chae Jeong Kim, [19:34] Meryl Horne).
- App displacement: About half the time, blocked users just switch to another app.
Summary: Moderate friction works best; too little has no effect, too much can backfire ([20:33] Wendy Zuckerman & team).

5. The Grayscale Solution: Draining the Fun Out

Scientific Basis for Black and White Screens

Concept: Turning your phone display to grayscale makes it visually dull, reducing the "reward" of use ([25:43] Meryl Horne).
- "All those saturated colors...keep you distracted and keep you on your phone." ([25:24] Dr. Leah Christin Vicard)
Research Evidence:
- First days: Marked reduction — up to one hour less screen time per day ([28:05] Meryl Horne).
- Longer term: Decrease settles to 20–40 minutes daily ([28:19] Meryl Horne).
- Notable Quote: "It sucks. It's boring. We don't want it. ...But what they also said is, oh, it's really working." ([27:22] Dr. Leah Christin Vicard)
- For heavy users: Less anxiety reported, phone use significantly down ([28:40] Meryl Horne).
- Drawbacks: User experience degraded; some routine tasks become harder (confusing call answer buttons, etc. [28:58] Meryl Horne).
Listener Experiments:
- Blythe Terrell (Science Vs Executive Editor): "My phone time is down like 30%...it really. Nothing is popping. ...My phone does not look like a bag of jelly beans anymore." ([29:38] M, [30:03] M]

6. Does Reducing Screen Time Actually Improve Wellbeing?

Mixed Data:
- Some large trials: Less screen time leads to improved life satisfaction ([33:16] Meryl Horne).
- But: Other studies show no effect or even negative outcomes; a 3-review meta-review calls the wellbeing benefits "questionable" ([33:16] Meryl Horne).
- Takeaway: Individual results may vary; don’t expect cutting screen time to solve everything.

7. Getting Started: The Psychological Hurdle

Starting is Hard:
- "The first thing that you gotta do, you need to press the button. And that starting point is really hard." ([34:16] Chae Jeong Kim)
- Internal resistance, "I don't want to do any of this. I just want to keep using my phone." ([34:21] Meryl Horne)
- Self-talk can help: "I just physically...talk to myself, hey, stop using and just start work or just do it." ([35:18] Chae Jeong Kim)
- Wendy’s anecdote: Jarring content (silly videos) can prompt self-reflection and stopping ([36:12] Wendy Zuckerman).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“These apps are Trojan horses. They look wonderful and great, but you invite them in and they take over.” ([00:50] Wendy Zuckerman, quoting lawyer)
"You don't see slot machines that are grayscale." ([28:49] Wendy Zuckerman)
On starting self-control efforts:
- "Just starting is often the hardest part of this." ([34:32] Chae Jeong Kim)
Touching on the beauty of real life:
- “It can be so much more beautiful to realize with all the colors in your real life.” ([31:28] Dr. Leah Christin Vicard)
User insight: "My phone does not look like a bag of jelly beans anymore. ...When you put it on grayscale, you're like, ow. It looks like I'm reading a newspaper." ([30:03] M)

Timestamps for Important Segments

00:00 - Overview of court case, listener testimonies
05:55 - Why scrolling is uniquely regretful (studies)
08:09 - Introduce Dr. Chae Jeong Kim and lockout app studies
09:12–11:16 - Hard lockout trial: effectiveness and downsides
12:10 - Internet cut-off study (high drop-out rate)
13:16 - Nudge intervention: pop-up reminders
15:05 - Nudge meta-reviews ("barely effective")
16:23 - Friction stacking & physical app barriers
17:13–19:34 - Code entry “friction” study; consequences
25:24–28:19 - Grayscale approach: theory, evidence, limitations
29:38–30:29 - Listener testimonials on grayscale effects
33:16 - Does reducing screen time improve wellbeing?
34:16–35:40 - The challenge of starting, self-talk, and experiments

Conclusions & Science-Backed Recommendations

1. Friction Helps—But the Amount Matters:

Too slight (pop-ups): mostly ignored.
Too harsh (lockouts): effective but resented and inconvenient.
‘Just right’ friction (e.g., code entry, hiding apps): reduces frequency, but not necessarily overall screen time.

2. Grayscale Is Surprisingly Effective:

An easy, science-supported strategy for reducing habitual phone use, with demonstrated effectiveness, especially for heavy users.

3. Benefits for Mental Health Are Mixed:

Some may feel better with less screen time, but research is inconclusive. Don’t bank on it as a universal fix.

4. Starting Is the Hardest Part:

Most important is making a conscious first step—installing an app, setting grayscale, or simply self-talking to disrupt the cycle.

Practical Tips Mentioned

Try turning your phone to grayscale (settings → accessibility → display/text size → color filters).
Install friction-adding apps (Goalkeeper, Brick, or Touch Grass) to slow access to social media.
Hide or move problematic apps off your home screen.
Set up app limits/pop-up reminders—even if only modestly effective.
Practice self-awareness (ask: "Am I enjoying this?") to break scrolling spells.

Final Thoughts

The Science Vs team highlights that while no solution is perfect, introducing just enough "friction" and draining your phone of its visual appeal with grayscale are both science-backed steps that many find helpful. But for real change, you do have to start by—literally or metaphorically—pressing the button.

Did you try grayscale or another tip from the show? Science Vs wants to hear from you on Instagram (@scienceVS) or TikTok (Wendy Zook).