Squirting: What's Really Happening?!

Summary

Science Vs: Squirting – What's Really Happening?!

Release Date: March 27, 2025
Host: Wendy Zuckerman
Guest: Comedian Annie Letterman
Producer: Emily Forman
Featured Expert Guests:

• Professor Carolyn Pukal, Sexual Health Researcher, Queen University, Canada
• Dr. Samuel Salama, Gynecologist, American Hospital in Paris
• Dr. Nan Wise, Neuroscientist and Sex Therapist
• Dr. Miyabi Inoue, Urologist, Japan
• Professor Helen O'Connell, Anatomist

---

Introduction to the Topic

Wendy Zuckerman opens the episode by introducing the topic of squirting, setting the stage for an in-depth exploration of whether squirting is simply urine or a different physiological phenomenon. She brings on comedian Annie Letterman, who shares her personal experience with squirting, expressing both fascination and frustration with the common misconception that squirting is merely pee.

Notable Quote:

Annie Letterman [00:45]: "For me, I feel like it's kind of a... it's an inspirational tale. And I was just really surprised. Cause I've had people in my past try... I wasn't trying. And then the levies broke."

---

Cirque du Squirrel: A Quirky Performance

To kick off the discussion, Wendy and Annie describe their experience attending a unique show called Cirque du Squirt in Brooklyn, New York. The highlight includes a vibrator race and a sensational performance by Lola Jean, the world record holder for squirting, who impressively expelled 1.35 liters of fluid on stage.

Notable Quote:

Annie Letterman [02:45]: "It's not pee is, it's yellow, it smells like pee. Like, you know, it's a distinct thing. It just seems like a completely different, it's a different consistency than pee."

---

Understanding Squirting: Survey Insights

Wendy shares results from an informal survey with nearly 16,000 responses, revealing:

• 30-45% of women with vaginas reported having experienced squirting.
• 60% believe the fluid is primarily urine, with some variation.
• The remaining respondents were uncertain or believed it was another type of ejaculate.

Notable Quote:

Annie Letterman [05:18]: "I feel like the people that say it's pee are always men too. I don't want them to be right. I feel like they're downplaying our squirt."

---

Scientific Investigations: Is It Pee or Something Else?

1. Dr. Samuel Salama’s Study:

• Conducted ultrasounds on seven systematic squirters.
• Findings revealed that during arousal, participants' bladders filled unexpectedly.
• Post-squirting ultrasounds showed empty bladders, suggesting the expelled fluid was urine.

Notable Quote:

Dr. Samuel Salama [22:18]: "There's only pee in the bladder. This is pee. Oh, no."

2. Dr. Miyabi Inoue’s Experiment:

• Injected blue liquid into the bladder of five squirting women.
• All but one expelled blue fluid during squirting, confirming the fluid originated from the bladder.

Notable Quote:

Annie Letterman [24:51]: "This is like the maxi pad commercials where they use the blue to show you."

3. Professor Carolyn Pukal’s Insights:

• Highlights historical acceptance of female ejaculation.
• Suggests the female prostate (Skene's glands) plays a role but accounts for only a small portion of the expelled fluid.

Notable Quote:

Professor Carolyn Pukal [10:00]: "I think it's a superpower. Seriously, like, it is magical. It's super magical to me."

---

Historical Perspective: Female Ejaculation Through the Ages

Wendy delves into the history of female ejaculation, citing medieval texts from China, India, and Europe that recognized and celebrated female squirting as a natural and essential part of procreation. These texts described the fluid as "sperm," necessary for conception.

Notable Quote:

Wendy Zuckerman [10:42]: "When the woman's red ball grows, it is said to move swiftly and spray. The man then draws her ejaculate into his penis..."

---

Anatomy of Squirting: The Female Prostate

Professor Helen O'Connell discusses the elusive nature of the female prostate (Skene's glands), emphasizing its complex structure and minimal size. Despite its small volume, its secretions contain proteins similar to those found in male semen, hinting at a nuanced role in squirting.

Notable Quote:

Professor Helen O'Connell [31:38]: "It's a lot more like saliva. It's thick and milky."

---

Male Squirting: A Lesser-Known Phenomenon

The episode briefly explores squirting in individuals with penises, revealing that 7% of surveyed men reported experiencing squirting-like fluid expulsion. Studies indicate that, similar to women, men can expel urine and possibly prostate fluid during arousal.

Notable Quote:

Wendy Zuckerman [43:58]: "It was 7% said yes."

---

Practical Tips and Personal Experiences

Annie Letterman shares practical advice for those interested in experiencing squirting, emphasizing clitoral stimulation and relaxation over forceful techniques aimed at the G-spot. Lola Jean underscores the importance of relaxing and not forcing the process to ensure it remains pleasurable.

Notable Quote:

Annie Letterman [46:25]: "You got to get a clit sucker. You got to get a clit sucker vibrator."

---

Conclusion: Embracing the Complexity of Squirting

The episode concludes with reflections on the multifaceted nature of squirting. While studies indicate that much of the expelled fluid is urine, the presence of prostate-specific proteins suggests a more complex interplay of bodily functions. The guests advocate for a positive and pressure-free approach to squirting, encouraging individuals to explore their bodies without fear or shame.

Notable Quote:

Lola Jean [50:00]: "Chase the pleasure. Don't chase the squirt."

---

Final Thoughts

"Science Vs" successfully demystifies the phenomenon of squirting by blending scientific research with personal anecdotes and historical context. The episode underscores the importance of understanding female sexuality through a scientific lens, challenging misconceptions, and promoting a healthy dialogue around sexual experiences.

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Note: This summary excludes advertisements and non-content sections to focus solely on the episode's substantive discussions.

Transcript

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman, and you're listening to Science Verses. Today on the show, we are pitting facts against fluids as we dive into the gushing waters of squirting. Yes, we're finally doing science versus squirting. And to help us on this journey is comedian Annie Letterman. Hey, Annie.

[Annie Letterman]

Hello. I'm so. I'm juicy and ready to go.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Oh, this is excellent. So, Annie, we. When we asked you, do you want to come on the show to help us talk about the science of squirting? You could not have answered yes, fast enough. What is your fascination with squirting? I am fascinated, too.

[Annie Letterman]

Well, I. I squirted for the first time a couple years ago, and I was. I thought, you know, I was 39. I just never thought it would happen. For me, I feel like it's kind of a. It's an inspirational tale. And I was just really surprised. Cause I've had people in my past try. And then my fiance, I just didn't even. I wasn't trying. And then the levies broke.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Wow.

[Annie Letterman]

But then now when I bring it up, people go, it's pee. And then I go, I really don't want it to be P. I fear it's pee. I don't want it to be P.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So you've already kind of picked the big question of the episode. Is it P? Is it not?

[Annie Letterman]

Yeah, but.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So we're gonna start this squirting journey in Brooklyn, New York, of course. And we wanted to start by checking out this very special. So we sent producer Emily Forman along.

[Annie Letterman]

Hello, hello. Hello, everybody.

[Emily Forman]

What do I really know about it? I know there's going to be choreography. I know there's gonna be games. I know there's gonna be a lot of fluids. Maybe I shouldn't have worn open toe shoes.

[Annie Letterman]

Welcome. Come, come, come to Cirque du Squirrel.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So the show we are at is called Cirque do Squirt.

[Annie Letterman]

Love it.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And it's happening. I want you to picture sort of this cute little nightclub in Brooklyn, and Emily is about to witness a bunch of quirky performances, including a vibrator race. Ah, the vibrator races. So what you do is you come and you choose your fighter.

[Emily Forman]

I feel like any vibrator you can imagine was represented. Like, just big, veiny penis. Like, really realistic end to, like, Sex and the City rabbit to, you know, just something a little more demure.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

You pick your contender, you turn it on, and you choose your setting. All right? So once the vibrator races were done, the real reason that everyone was gathered at Cirque du Squirt tonight was to obviously see the squirting. And tonight we're not just going to see anyone squirt, but we're going to see the legend of liquid, the empress of emissions, the sorceress of squirt, Lola Jean. So Lola Jean holds the world record for squirting, which means that using nothing but her own fingers, she has squirted out 1.35 liters of fluid.

[Annie Letterman]

Wow.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Which is about the same as two bottles of wine.

[Annie Letterman]

Amazing.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So Lola gets on stage with two other people. They're dressed in early 2000s boy band garb. They're lip syncing to this song, Liquid Dreams. And then it's about to be the main event. I asked Emily, who's there sitting in that crowd, to explain exactly what happened. And she said, there's this tarp on the ground the performers are standing over, and then whipped the pants off and.

[Emily Forman]

Then did a quick, quick, like, jerk off. They were inside fingering themselves.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

They were finger banging themselves.

[Emily Forman]

It sounds like finger banging. Yes, they were finger banging themselves. And at the big moment where it was like, da, da, da, Liquid dreams. And then all of a sudden all this liquid pours out and just like splashes on stage.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Wow. And so how did the liquid come out? Was it like a fountain or was it like a dribble down?

[Emily Forman]

No, it was like if you just like dumped out a huge bucket of water or it's like if you're like the sort of cartoon version of your water breaking, like all of this liquid just splashing out intensely in a lot like heart.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And it really does make you question, is it, what is that fluid?

[Annie Letterman]

Is this pee?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Is this something else? And so as part of our research for this episode, we did this big informal survey of our listeners. Almost 16,000 people responded. Annie, do you want to guess what percentage of folks with vaginas in our survey said that they had ever squirted? 30, 45%.

[Annie Letterman]

Okay.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And that's basically what other research has found. And so in our survey, we also asked these squirters, what do you think it is? Around 60% thought that it was either P or P with something else in it. The rest thought it was something else or they just weren't sure because there is this idea that it could be ejaculate, like some. That, you know, if you've got a vagina, you can ejaculate too.

[Annie Letterman]

That's what I want it to be. I feel like the people that say it's pee Are always men too. I don't want them to be right. I feel like they're downplaying our squirt.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Well, the thing is, you know, despite the pee propaganda, when we talked to Emily about what she thought this liquid was that was coming out, here's what she said.

[Emily Forman]

It was clear and crystal and kind of, kind of beautiful the way the light was shining through it. I feel like I have no questions in my mind that that was pure squirt.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And we spoke to Lola Jean, actually the squirter on stage and she told us that when it happens, it doesn't feel like when you're peeing.

[Lola Jean]

It feels different when I pee and it feels different when I squirt. Like the process of it, it feels entirely different. But also like I have squirted my life savings out of my body and still had full pees afterwards. So I'm like, there's no way, there's no way I'm gon have. After I set that record, I, I peed so much and then I was like, there's no way if this was pee that I've had this much more in the tank.

[Annie Letterman]

I feel the same way because it's, it's not pee is, it's yellow, it smells like pee. Like, you know, it's a distinct thing. It just seems like a completely different, it's a different consistency than pee.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And, and you, you're not. Yeah, you're not the only one to say this. There was a study that interviewed 28 squirters, many of whom had smelt their squirt, even tasted it, and they also swore that it was something different. So today on the show we are going to get to the bottom of what is this fluid flying out of us? Pee, ejaculate, something else. Plus we're going to look at what's going on in our body when this happens. And if you are curious to bring some squirting into your life, Lola Jean's going to give us some tips.

[Annie Letterman]

So exciting. I'm so happy for everyone.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And you know what? For those listening, I know this isn't you any but some might feel that this is some, you know, kinky little story about this strange sex phenomenon. But actually the story of squirting goes so deep. It goes into the history of female ejaculation which we're talking. We're going back hundreds of years right up to groundbreaking science published just last year. We are going to finger bang our way through the research until the floodgates open and we understand everything there is to know about squirting.

[Annie Letterman]

Love it.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

You ready to go?

[Annie Letterman]

Oh, I feel so lucky.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

When it comes to squirting, there is a lot of finger banging, yes, but then there's science. Science versus squirting is coming up. This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Taking things slow isn't always a good thing. Sometimes you need to speed things along. There was one time that our toilet was leaking. I needed a plumber fast. If you're hiring, you probably also want to get it done fast. So use Indeed. Indeed. Sponsored Jobs Move your job posts to the top of the page, helping you stand out and reach candidates quickly. Speed up your hiring right now with a $75 sponsored job credit@ Indeed.comScienceOn that's Indeed.comScience on terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need this season. A new hot deal has arrived at Metro. $25 a line for four lines. With all the data you need and four free Samsung Galaxy A15.5G phones, getting Metro's best deals is easy. No ID required, no activation fees. Get a new number or keep your own. It's up to you. That's four lines for $25 a line plus four free phones. Visit a store or go online today only at Metro by T Mobile.

[Lola Jean]

When you join Metro plus tax for limited time and subject to change max one offer per account.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Welcome back. Today we are all about the science of squirt. We're here with comedian Annie Letterman. Hello.

[Annie Letterman]

Hi.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

All right, so to find out more about what's going on with the science of squirting, we called up friend of the show, Professor Carolyn Pukal, who's a sexual health researcher at Queen University in Canada. And like us, she is amazed by squirting.

[Carolyn Pukal]

I don't know. It's like, I think it's a superpower. Seriously, like, it is magical. It's super magical to me. And so mysterious that this amount of fluid can come from a body. It's just incredible.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So these days, the idea that someone with a vagina can ejaculate is maybe a little controversial, but actually, centuries ago, things were quite different. So philosophers and scientists of medieval China, India and Europe were like, duh, of course a woman can ejaculate. Carolyn said that it wasn't controversial at all.

[Carolyn Pukal]

It was not. They called it, you know, they called it sperm. They called vaginal secretions sperm. And there are quotes like, she emitted abundant sperm.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Did you know this?

[Annie Letterman]

I didn't, but I also love that she said abundant.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

You like the word abundant?

[Annie Letterman]

Well, just like, you know, like my P's. Like. Like manifesting or something. I like it. It's abundance. Yes.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

There's this book on the history of female ejaculation called Juice that came out recently, and it has these amazing quotes from ancient texts about this idea. And so here's one I wanted to read you. It was our personal favorite on the show. It's from medieval Chinese sex book, and it says, quote, when the woman's red ball grows, it is said to move swiftly and spray. The man, then draws her ejaculate into his penis, a method that resembles a golden cicada clinging to a tree and. And imbibing dew.

[Annie Letterman]

Beautiful. That's gorgeous. The red ball, too. I like that red ball, right? It's very Pokemon. Isn't there a Squirtle? There's a Squirtle on Pokemon.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

They'll never look at my clit the same way again. Thank you, Red Bull. And getting a woman to produce all of this liquid was considered super important back then, because all the way up until around the 1500, a lot of people thought that both women and men had sperm or seed inside their sexy, wet stuff. And so, basically, if you wanted to have a baby, both a man and a woman had to ejaculate. That was the thinking. And so, according to Juice, this influential Catholic clergyman basically wrote that should the woman fail to secrete seed, no baby. Wow.

[Annie Letterman]

I love that. That would have changed a lot of my sex life if guys were trying.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So it's amazing. So there's all these history books sort of giving these tips on how to make a woman get super, super wet. But then in the 1600s, the microscope is invented, and science basically screws everything up. I mean, science does what science does. It learns. We discover sperm cells. We discover that women don't need to ejaculate to make a baby. And I talked to Carolyn about what happened. So what happened?

[Carolyn Pukal]

People just decided that the only people who ejaculated were people with penises.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And suddenly there's less and less advice about how to make a vagina resemble a golden cicada. And so I think, to me, what this point, like, really shows is how politicized and moralized the idea of female ejaculate is, because these scientists of their day were observing great fluids coming from a vagina and spraying. And then all of a sudden, that function isn't necessary for procreation.

[Annie Letterman]

Right. And pleasure with it. And then all of a sudden, that's not necessary, but it is necessary for the guy to have the pleasure. And for them to shoot.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Exactly. Exactly. And so then all of a sudden, this physiological function that we have gets shoved aside, becomes taboo. We don't talk about it anymore. So let's talk about it. Let's really talk about it. And I think even though they do have all these amazing descriptions of seeds and fluids and spraying, what is true is that in these texts, it's really not clear what fluid they are talking about. So the question is like, so what exactly is moving swiftly and spraying? And so I just to look at all the liquids that could possibly be coming out of us as we get really horny and, you know, do we want to call it ejaculate, whatever, just emit fluids? And the first one I want to look at is vaginal lubrication.

[Annie Letterman]

You mean like our, like, body's own. Our natural astroglide that we make ourselves?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

That's right. Because how. How you make lube. It's actually really, really cool. I hadn't thought about it before. I don't know if you'd spent time.

[Annie Letterman]

No, I never think about where that comes. I don't know about any of that.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. So to tell us all about it is Dr. Nan Wise, a neuroscientist and sex therapist. So she says that, you know, when we get aroused, you're bringing blood flow into that area. Wende. Right. So blood flow starts to rush down to your vagina, making it slightly warm and swollen. And then some of that blood basically turns into lube.

[Annie Letterman]

Whoa. Turning water into wine. We're like, jesus.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

He's netting. So there's a filtration process that takes the plasma from the blood and filters it and filters it and filters it. And then it goes through the walls of the vagina and, like, sweatshirt. Think about sweat.

[Annie Letterman]

Our vaginas are. Jesus. But are they not? That's incredible. I was thinking maybe there's sweat involved in this too.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Annie Letterman]

It's just gonna find out that it's like, sweat, diarrhea, and pee. I'm gonna be like, oh, no.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

We've come into this being like, oh.

[Annie Letterman]

No, it's getting worse. Can it just be pee?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah. We end up with. Okay. But as cool as lubrication is, I asked Dan, is anyone saying squirting is lube? No, no, no, no, no, no. So this cannot be what came out of Lola or you. Because, I mean, for one, with Lola, she pumped out over a liter of this stuff, and you just don't produce that much lube. Plus, squirting actually comes out of a different hole.

[Annie Letterman]

I feel that. I feel that it's a different hole. It doesn't feel like it comes out of the same place.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So the hole that squirt is coming out of is the urethra, which is the hole that you pee out of.

[Annie Letterman]

That is the pee hole.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah, that is the pee hole. Which does take us to suspect number two that we've discussed. Is it pee? And so for this, we called up Dr. Samuel Salama. He's a gynecologist working at the American Hospital in Paris. What is the French word for squirting?

[Samuel Salama]

In French, we used to say femme fontaine.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Fontaine like fountain? Like a fountain.

[Samuel Salama]

Yes. Femme fontaine. Because the expulsion can be very, very large.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

It's not a bad day.

[Samuel Salama]

That would be surprising.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So when Samwell was a medical student, a lover of his squirted, and they were both so fascinated and curious by this, they tried to find out what the fluid was, and they asked friends and doctors, but no one could tell them anything that really made sense.

[Samuel Salama]

We don't know anything about that, so we need to find a credible explanation.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So years later, Sam is doing his degree in sexology. He realizes he has access to a clinic where he can get some real answers on this. So, okay, Sam recruits seven women who were what he calls systematic scriptus. Oh, it's gonna get good. It's gonna get good. Addie, you're gonna love where we're going. Okay, so these systematic squirters, they can.

[Samuel Salama]

Do that when they wish, at every. Every sexual intercourse.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Okay, so Sam gets these women to go to the bathroom and pee, and he takes an ultrasound of their pelvis and importantly, their bladder. And he's making sure to see that it's empty. And now the next step is to get wet for science. So some of these systematic squirters brought a partner. Some came on their own.

[Annie Letterman]

They just use a beaker.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And I want you to picture this classic ultrasound room. So very sterile vibes, you know, white walls. Oh, and the beaker, because that can't hold enough. So there's actually a big plastic bag on the bed to collect the squirt that comes out. So maybe if you've got, like, a Grey's Anatomy fantasy, this could be the study for you. Sam leaves the room, waits outside.

[Samuel Salama]

Just before, when the woman is ready, when she feel that it's the good time, they ask me to come back.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Did they just say, like, hi, we're ready?

[Samuel Salama]

Yes. The men came to me, and I think you can come now.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So this is just as the women are super aroused, like, ready to squirt, but they haven't yet. And then Sam takes a second ultrasound of their bladder. He's out the door again to see what's.

[Annie Letterman]

What's cooking in there.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

What's cooking? Exactly. Then the femmes do their fountain. And when it's all done, Sam comes back in and it's wet everywhere.

[Annie Letterman]

Everywhere.

[Samuel Salama]

There is fluid inside the bag there. There is fluid around the bag and all over the floor.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

He does a third ultrasound after the squirting's done. So, Addy, if you're counting along here, we've got three images of the bladder before, at peak of arousal, and then after. Okay, are we up to the moment.

[Samuel Salama]

You want the result?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

I. Yeah. Okay, so first ultrasound, just after they had a big whiz, their bladders were empty. No surprises there. But then before we get to the post bladder, something very interesting is happening. At the peak of arousal, after 30.

[Samuel Salama]

Minutes to one hour of sexual stimulation, when they call me back and I do the second ultrasound, the bladder is full.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

What?

[Annie Letterman]

But no water's gone in.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

It's weird, right? Yeah.

[Annie Letterman]

I'm starting to think about if I'm stranded on an island, I'm good. If there's no water, if I'm somewhere, I feel like I'm going to be able to rehydrate. I feel like, honestly, I could have saved the Palisades. I honestly am starting to feel bad. They said there's no water. I go, I actually have water, guys. I actually have some.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

I can create this.

[Annie Letterman]

This is incredible.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah, I don't know. This is cool. So he could see that, like, you know, just in those. Whatever. Half an hour the bladder was filling up again. And he's not the only study to show this. So another study that got a straight couple to have sex in an mri. Could we just imagine, you know, what people do for science. But they also found that during arousal, their bladders filled up again.

[Annie Letterman]

Now do the guys bladders fill up?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah, both. Both in that study. In that study. Okay, but then we got to get what happened after they squirted. Right. What was happening to their bladders? This was your big question. This is the big question, right?

[Annie Letterman]

This is it.

[Samuel Salama]

And just after squirting, the bladder is totally empty.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And so it's pay. Is it pay?

[Samuel Salama]

Sure. There is only pee in the bladder. This is p. Oh, no.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

How do you feel?

[Annie Letterman]

I still think there's something in there.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Sam also analyzed the squirt and found chemicals that you tend to find in urine, like urea uric acid. Another study of seven women also found these particular P chemicals inside Squirt, but at quite low quantities, kind of like diluted. We have a photo in Sam's study of all the different liquids that came out. Do you wanna see it?

[Annie Letterman]

Yes.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So the. The darkest one was before Squirt.

[Annie Letterman]

Okay.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And then that one that says S. That is. That is Squirt. That was Squirt in this study.

[Annie Letterman]

Yeah. That's way more yellow than I thought it was going to be in my head. It's just clear. It's like.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah, it's not.

[Annie Letterman]

I just can't just be pee.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Well, Sam said that when the study came out, some folks sent him these angry emails because they were so, so upset at the suggestion that this was just pee.

[Samuel Salama]

No, you're a liar. It's not possible.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

But, you know, we do want more research. Right? So I want to tell you about one. One more study in this is related to this. We talked to a urologist from Japan called Dr. Miyabi Inoue, who got five women who squirted, and using a catheter, she emptied their bladders, and then she inserted this blue liquid into it, and she asked the women to squirt. And the whole point is that if what came out was blue, she knew it was coming from the bladder. And Annie, she actually took a video of the experiment. And I have not watched this video yet because I wanted us to watch it together.

[Annie Letterman]

I'm so excited.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Okay. I think from the reactions of my team, it's a bit full on. So I think this is gonna be a real bonding moment for us right now.

[Annie Letterman]

I'm very excited. We're bound.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Okay.

[Annie Letterman]

We could be. Instead of blood sisters, we'll be squirt sisters.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

It will be squirt sisters. I think we will be squirt sisters. Okay. Ketty, you want to whip up the video? Yep, I got you. Hope y'all are ready. All right. Thanks. I'm excited. This has been so. We've been spending months making this episode, and I've yet to see this video, so. All right. Is the liquid coming out of their bladder? Gotta be blue. Okay, so what are we looking at here? This is. Oh, someone finger bagging themselves. Yeah, there they are. They're going for it.

[Annie Letterman]

Okay, that's very blue. Whoa. That's very blue.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Oh, yeah.

[Annie Letterman]

This is like the maxi pad commercials where they use the blue to show you.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Oh, yes. Oh, yeah.

[Annie Letterman]

Wow.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Oh. Oh. That is 100% blue.

[Annie Letterman]

Look at this.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Annie Letterman]

Little smurf hand in there. Hip Hop Smurf. I mean, this is wild. I mean, it's science. You gotta do it.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

That was a blue, blue, blue, blue, blue. I think there's no question it's coming from the bladder.

[Annie Letterman]

This.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

This fluid is coming.

[Annie Letterman]

Yeah.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

At least. At least partly. Okay.

[Annie Letterman]

Yeah.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So you had said. I think there's something else there. Right. Tell me more.

[Annie Letterman]

I feel like it has to be like a. Like a. Some. It's just not. It doesn't. It doesn't feel like pee to me.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah. Something else has to be going on.

[Annie Letterman]

I think so.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And Annie, something else is going on.

[Annie Letterman]

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

After the break, we're going to look at this incredibly mysterious and misunderstood part of the body that some seem to say can transform this pee into a brand new, sexy substance.

[Annie Letterman]

Ooh, I love it.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So if you're into the Powerpuff Girls, Chemical X is coming up after the break.

[Annie Letterman]

I'm erect. I'm aroused.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

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[Helen O'Connell]

The PC gave us computing power at home. The Internet connected us. And mobile let us do it pretty much anywhere. Now, generative AI lets us communicate with technology in our own language using our own senses. But figuring it all out when you're living through it is a totally different story. Welcome to Leading the Shift, a new podcast from Microsoft Azure. I'm your host, Susan Ettlinger. In each episode, leaders will share what they're learning to help you navigate all this change with confidence. Please join us, listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Welcome back. Today on the show Squirting. We're here with comedian and squirting Stan Annie Lederman. We just learned that a lot of squirt lives in the bladder before it ends up on your bed, making it suspiciously seem like pee.

[Annie Letterman]

Yes.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

But online and in this studio, you have heard folks say, no, no, no, it is not pee. And the truth is that sometimes it's not just pee. There is this curious chemical found in squirt that comes from an even curiouser part of the body. And to tell us all about it, I called up Professor Helen O'Connell. Is that you, Wendy? Is that you, Helen? Helen and I kind of go way back. She's this pioneer when it comes to anatomy. So Helen was one of the first modern scientists to fully describe the clitoris. You know, how now I hope everyone knows that the clitoris is way bigger than that little knob. You see, she's the reason we know.

[Annie Letterman]

That the red ball.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

The red ball.

[Annie Letterman]

It's bigger than the red ball.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Bigger than the red ball. And now Helen and a handful of other researchers are doing it all again, describing these amazing anatomical features. And this time their target is the so called female prostate, which one headline called the mystical source of female ejaculation.

[Annie Letterman]

I'm so excited. I have brothers and I've always, I always was like the girl that was like, can I join the frat? Like, I was like, why can't I do the boy things? And look, look at me now, baby, look at me now. And my prostate.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Did you know we had a prostate?

[Annie Letterman]

I didn't, but I'm very. I'm happy to hear it.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah. Well, I mean, the fact that we don't know. I asked Helen about this. Why is there so much mystique around the female Prostate? Why in 2025, is your team, are we still publishing Basic Anatomy about, about the female body?

[H]

Well, you know, we were looking at the state library in Victoria and beautiful diagrams in these historical books have had their vulval pages ripped out, you know, and then replaced and ripped out again. There is this sort of physically ripped.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Out somewhere along the line.

[H]

Well, someone has attacked these books and removed the very depiction of the vulva. And so there's a sort of societal force that's a bit wacky, frankly.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Isn't that shocking?

[Annie Letterman]

It's not shocking. It's annoying though. It's annoying, yeah.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So to put some pages back into these anatomy textbooks, um, let's, let's talk about this. What this gland does, it basically secretes these Proteins that the male prostate does as well. And these proteins have sexy names like prostate specific antigen, also called PSA or PSAP is another one. And basically, these proteins will come out of the urethra in this. In this very curious fluid.

[H]

I actually wonder whether fluid's the right word. They secrete secretions, so they're, you know, viscous. So it's moist. Right.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

But it's not watery like snot or like semen.

[H]

Probably of a slippery, lush character. Yeah, A lot more like saliva.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Ah, okay. Other researchers have described it to us like that. It's thick and milky. And if you've got a penis, your prostate will be pumping out these proteins that will end up in your semen. Which is why some people have said that if squirt has these proteins in it, then it's basically a kind of cum. Right?

[Annie Letterman]

I mean, it has to be. It has to be.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

There has. And when. And when Samwell, our French scientist, and others have analyzed the chemicals in squirt, they often do find these prostate proteins in them, telling us that this female prostate does play some role.

[Annie Letterman]

Where is the female prostate? It's like, near the G spot or what?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

This is a great question, and actually one that scientists have still been arguing about because these pages have been ripped out of our anatomy textbooks.

[Annie Letterman]

I am so mad about that.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

It's. Yes.

[Annie Letterman]

And so I would rather it be. You go, you see the anatomy books, and they're actually waterlogged from women squirting so much on them. I would rather them be sealed shut like my mom's 50 shades of gray. That was near her bathtub.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Exactly. And the thing is that, like, where this gland is, that is like a basic anatomy question. How are we still talking about it?

[Annie Letterman]

Yeah, it would be so very helpful to know that.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yes, it's super important. And it also can help us answer this question of how much this kind of cummy, whatever salivary, thick, milky stuff we're making. Because generally speaking, how big a gland is also helps us know how much of this stuff it's producing. And so over and over again in textbooks, you see this description of the female prostate gland saying that it's basically two tiny tubes that sit on either side of the bottom of your urethra so close to where pee comes out. But actually, Helen did this study that kind of turns this on his head in this really exciting way. So she got tissue samples from the urethra of seven women who had just died.

[H]

Was uber fresh, you know, so these incredible women donated their bodies to science. So we had this fabulous tissue, and.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Helen's team sliced up the urethras crossways, kind of like how you would a big. A baguette, I guess, like really thinly sliced.

[Annie Letterman]

Oh.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And then she looked at these little slices under a microscope. And even though what had. Has been in a bunch of textbooks, you look online, you'll always see, you know, the prostate described as just these two little tubes down the bottom. Actually, she could see. See this kind of constellation of glands all the way through our urethra.

[Annie Letterman]

Wow.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Which is so cool. And so she said, you know, they're not. They're not just off to the side.

[H]

They are in the urethra. They're not beside the urethra. They're not in the vicinity of the urethra. They are actually in the structure of this tube.

[Annie Letterman]

Wow.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And Helen's not the first to uncover this. Other researchers have, too. It's just. No one's updated Wikipedia yet.

[Annie Letterman]

Listen, when I die, I am donating my body to this study. I'm donating my vag. Take it. I love Helen. I like how she describes things. She's like this beautiful tissue. It's lush. It's. You know, everything she says is so poetic.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

She loves anatomy, and I think she loves, like, bringing this out into the lot and.

[Carolyn Pukal]

Okay.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

But the thing is that even though this gland is way cooler and more complicated than we give it credit for, it is still really small. So the glands themselves, how big are they? Like a grain of rice.

[H]

Probably smaller than that. So they're microscopic.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

You can't see them with the naked eye.

[Annie Letterman]

Right.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

See, even if you squished all the webby spider, webby constellations together, it'd be really small. And how much liquid do they produce? All in all, it's probably more like several mls, perhaps a teaspoon, we're talking. And what is cool, though, is that in some cases, that ejaculate can actually come out of your urethra on its own. And so this is what scientists now call female ejaculate when. When just what's coming out of the female prostate comes out of your urethra. But, yeah, it's different from. It's like a totally different process because it's not this huge gush. So then when it comes to this question of, okay, so are we ejaculating? Is squirt a mixture of pee and ejaculate? It is sometimes, but it's not always so. In Sam's study, he found the sexy proteins in five of the seven squirt samples. Meaning two were just pee. Miyabi's study out of Japan found it in four of five squirters, which tells you that even though this female prostate is super cool, still, what is coming out of us during squirt is mostly pee.

[Annie Letterman]

This is disgusting. I'm horrified. Well, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Research shows that. That those who think it's pee are more likely to be embarrassed about squirting as opposed to thinking it's a positive experience. But, you know, Helen says screw that.

[H]

But if. If release at orgasm, and. And. And that's urine with these markers, makes you feel fantastic, you know, knock yourself out. I mean, people are really enjoying this experience. Why should we say it's anything other than valid.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

On one level? It's all just diluted blood on one very basic level, isn't it? Right. You know, lube is diluted blood. Pee on one level is diluted blood.

[Annie Letterman]

Listen, they are ejaculating all over our bodies. Why would we not be allowed to pee on them? I mean, I've had my eyes sealed shut. Why would I not be allowed to pee all over you?

[Wendy Zuckerman]

That as well.

[Annie Letterman]

Now I'm. Now I'm more. I'm gonna be more angled at it. Like, when I'm mad at him, I'm gonna be like, all right, get it in the eye.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Exactly. Miyabi, our Japanese urologist, said that if you're worried about pee being dirty, there's actually more bacteria in your mouth or your vagina. But it does raise the question of, if this is mostly pee, and it is, why doesn't it feel like peeing? When we asked academics about this, they said one reason could be. The context is so different. I mean, you're not, you know, with peeing, you're scrolling through Instagram on the toilet. You know, in this case, you're doing something sexy. Context plays a huge role in how things feel in our body. But it's also possible that the actual physiological process of how the liquid gets out of your body, even though it is in the bladder and it's coming out of the urethra, that what triggers that whole process is different to peeing, which would be super interesting. We need to learn more.

[Annie Letterman]

We must.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

We must. Right?

[Annie Letterman]

But, like, do not wait for my body to be donated. Please get onto this in my lifetime. I want to know.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yes, you know, we know peeing is voluntary. You know, you can hold it in. Your prefrontal cortex is like, hold it in, hold it in, let it out.

[Annie Letterman]

Yes.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Squirting for a lot of folks is involuntary. It just happens at this moment of arousal.

[Annie Letterman]

Surprising. It's really shocking.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah. Also in Miyabi's. In that Japanese study, lest we forget the. With the blue liquid.

[Annie Letterman]

Oh, I'll never forget that.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Mm. Four for four out of the five women. The squirt. Miyabi said that the squirt didn't shoot out like pee can, where it could be. It could be quite forceful, like. But she said it sort of dripped out, suggesting to her that maybe the muscles around the bladder weren't actually squishing in the same way. Cause that's why pee shoots out. You have these muscles that contract around the bladder. You said it doesn't feel like pee so much.

[Annie Letterman]

It just doesn't feel like pee.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah. And that really could be that just. The processes are so different. But Carolyn Picile says we're still learning the magical symphony that leads us to squirting. But given how smooshed together the urethra, the vagina, and the clitoris are, it wouldn't be a surprise to her if squirting is triggered in some way that is different to peeing. Here's what she said.

[Carolyn Pukal]

Everything is connected. So when you're stimulating a vagina internally, you're also stimulating the urethra indirectly through the walls. Depending how deep the thrusting is, you're stimulating the uterus. It really is like a whole pelvic response. There's so many processes happening, and this arousal response doesn't decide to just be like, okay, vagina, we're gonna have you release just vaginal stuff.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Does that make you feel better about the fact it's mostly pee?

[Annie Letterman]

I mean, ideally, we would be debunking it and saying it's not pee, but I'm not gonna. I would never send a letter to France yelling at a guy. A scientist. I will accept. I accept science. No, but I. I do that. I'm telling you, the little bit of protein, that little. That little ejaculate is enough for me.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

It's enough.

[Annie Letterman]

Well, it's enough. It's enough that it's not bull pee.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah. It's transforming it. It did transform it into a sexy new substance.

[Annie Letterman]

Yes.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Now, once we realized that there was all this mystery into exactly how we squirt, it did make us on the team wonder, could a penis squirt too? And it turns out, yeah, baby. We talked to Carolyn about this as well.

[Carolyn Pukal]

I think this may also happen in people with penises as well. So usually when there's an erection, a person Cannot pee. Right. There's a mechanism.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

The door shuts.

[Carolyn Pukal]

Yeah, the door shuts when the penis is erect. Because we don't want to wear one.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Door closes, there's another door open sort of situation.

[Carolyn Pukal]

Yes, exactly. But sometimes that mechanism is going to not work perfectly.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So there was this case study out of Japan where scientists carefully tracked this 25 year old man as he ejaculated normally. And then after he ejaculated, then this translucent, misty fluid with levels of a chemical that you would generally find in urine came out of his willy for about a minute. They said it gushed out and he was erect the whole time. And so in this survey we did of our listeners, we actually asked folks with penises, have you ever squirted during sexual activity? Which we explicitly said. We are not talking about cum lubrication, ejaculation, seminal fluid. Do you want to guess how many said yes?

[Annie Letterman]

Oh, let's give them 70. I'm going to give him over 50%.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

No, it was 7%.

[Annie Letterman]

Okay. It was a little bit. Okay. I just added a zero for fun.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

It was 7% said yes. And we asked some urologists about this and they were very surprised, maybe even skeptical that the number could be that high. But I'm pretty sure ours is the only survey in the world in science that has ever asked folks with penises, have you squirted? So because there's just been this assumption, oh, this is just something just vaginas do. So we're really in uncharted territory here.

[Annie Letterman]

Wow, this is exciting.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Right?

[Annie Letterman]

But we've got it. We can't start focusing on the boy. We gotta finish with the girls first.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

We gotta finish with the girls.

[Annie Letterman]

We gotta finish finding out about the women. We can't just jump ship all of a sudden. There's gonna be all these grants and money given to find out if guys squirt. We're like, what? We are trying to figure out the protein, the constellation.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

That's exactly right.

[Annie Letterman]

We're gonna find out. They're gonna tear our pages out. They're gonna.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Exactly. Oh, gosh. Okay. So yes, we're gonna go back to people with vaginas for our final question for today, which is if you want to squirt, how can you do it? Lola Jean told us that she, she hears a lot of people. And you see a lot of this online is folks saying that, you know, the key to squirting is hitting your so called G spot, which is really the back of your clitoris. Did a whole episode on it. But to get this area, you put your index finger and middle finger inside your vagina and kind of curl them towards your belly button. But for Lola Jean, she said hitting the G spot is not the be all and end all. She told us that, you know, for her, she squirts anytime she hits a certain level of arousal.

[Lola Jean]

But the, like, G spot, flicky, flicky, bull, doesn't actually really feel like, I guess I squirt, but it really doesn't feel that good because I think people are hammering at the G spot like there's no tomorrow. And I'm just trying to get them to chill out.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

A paper interviewed more than a thousand women who had squirted and found that to build up to that squirting climax going for the vaginal wall, aka, you know, the finger bagging technique, it only did it for around one in six women. So. So it might work for some, but definitely not all. For others, clitoral stimulation was the thing that got them going. Annie, do you have any tips?

[Annie Letterman]

Personally, I have some advice. You got to get a clit sucker. You got to get a clit sucker vibrator. And then I think it's.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Wait, what is. I'm not. What is a clit sucker vibrator?

[Annie Letterman]

A clit sucker is like a. It's a vibrator, and it's a suction that you put right over your clit. And then while they're. They're penetrating you, you have like, the double. But it' really, it's very strong. It's very amazing.

[Helen O'Connell]

Wow.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And that'll make you squirt every time?

[Annie Letterman]

Yeah, if I. Yes.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Clit sucker. Okay, hot tip from Annie.

[Annie Letterman]

Tell your friends.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And then to release the squirt. In this study, the thing that worked for some people was just relaxing their muscles. Lola Jean told us this works for her as well, and she talked to our producer, Kitty Foster Keys about it.

[Lola Jean]

I call it the splish splash sound, but it's when you're really engorged. And like, I was like, if you hear the splish splash sound, like I'm telling you right now, you can squirt. You just have to figure out how to get it out of your body. Which, like, for a lot of femmes, it's like they're just controlled to, like, keep things in. Keep things in. Don't harp or queef or what.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

What is the splish splash sound? How is that different than, like, regular, you know, good old Mac and cheese sounding sex?

[Lola Jean]

I think it's a little more schlossy when you hear it, you know, when.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

You know, you know, sloshy Annie, have you heard this blitz flash sound?

[Annie Letterman]

I haven't, but I will soon.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

You gonna listen out for it now?

[Annie Letterman]

I'm gonna listen, yeah. No, but it's definitely like a relaxing. Cause it's. I do think I have that too, where it's like, you just. You wanna like hold in things when. I don't know if all women feel that, but for me what she said made sense. Where it's like, yeah, you don't wanna. You don't wanna queef, you don't wanna do this, you don't wanna do that. So you're always like trying to not exist, I guess. But to me it's like a. I have to be emotionally open and I have to be because I can hold back and not do it.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Interesting. And then does it make it less pleasurable generally, if you're holding back?

[Annie Letterman]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

It's not clear that everyone is gonna experience the splish splashy sound. Not maybe it's different for different squirters. But also, we don't know that everyone can squirt. Just putting that out there.

[Annie Letterman]

I just want to say, guys, I really never thought I would. I never thought I would and I did. So even though it might not be for you, maybe it is.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And also this goes without saying, but we're going to say it anyway, is that now that squirting is kind of this sexy porny thing that people have been pushing their lovers to squirt in this way that makes them quite uncomfortable. So Lola told us about this.

[Lola Jean]

I've had a lot of people who want to make me squirt and sometimes they hurt me because they're so hell bent on getting to that end result.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

There's no. This does feel like a PSA at the end of our episode. P S A at the end. But you know, there's no need to be hell bent on on any results when it comes to sex.

[Annie Letterman]

Uh huh.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Plus our survey and other research shows that while a lot of people do get pleasure from squirting and feel this like fabulous release like you've talked about, Annie, some people don't like it. So in one study around one in seven said that when they squirted, it wasn't pleasurable at all. And we don't know why, but sort of the point is, and Lola really stamped on this is like, you know, if it happens for you and it feels great, that is awesome.

[Lola Jean]

Yeah, I feel like, don't get hell bent on this. It's not as great as you're probably building it up to be. So chase the pleasure. Don't chase the squirt.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

So what did you. What do you. What do you think of squirting now? Now that you know all there is to know and more about squirting?

[Annie Letterman]

Look, I'm a loud, proud squirter, but I think what I. The thing that I. That is interesting is the torn out pages of that book is what I'm thinking about the most. Where it's just this. I think when we've just. There's just been a history of sort of just sweeping women's pleasure under the rug or not just, you know, redirecting away from it and stuff. And I think that's why I think I would just say, like, do it for yourself. And, you know, it's fun. It's like a fun thing and makes you feel, like, powerful. Yeah, I feel powerful, sure.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah.

[Annie Letterman]

And, yeah, I'm okay with it being a little pee. I know. That was very blue. It was very blue. I want to thank them for not using red because that would have been scary.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Would have been very.

[Annie Letterman]

Thank God it's not period. Can you imagine? I already have too much trouble leaving a trail of that all around town.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Oh, my God. If it was. If we came into the studio and.

[Annie Letterman]

Told you and we just found it, it was period. I would be so mad. Oh, God. But that's what's exciting. I'm just excited. I think the lesson I learned from learning how to score was just like. It is just a comfort and a release and just letting myself go, which is not always so easy.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Yeah. Thank you so much, Annie.

[Annie Letterman]

Well, I have to pee so bad, which is so funny. The whole time I'm like, am I. Is this psychosomatic, or do I really have to pee? I stand up, I'm just soaking wet.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

And it'd be fine, and it's all fine.

[Annie Letterman]

I just. I think I'm ready to surrender. I'm ready to surrender my argument. All right. It's okay. I'm not mad. I'm okay with it. And I will. I will go forth. I will tell squirt jokes with integrity, scientific integrity from now on.

[Wendy Zuckerman]

Thank you so much, Addie. We will now let you go.

[Annie Letterman]

Thank you so much for having me. This was so knowledgeable and cute and fun. Thank you.