← Scoop City: Inside The NFL
Scoop City: Inside The NFL
Bengals, Shemar Stewart remain in standoff over rookie deal, Aaron Rodgers attends Steelers minicamp
00:45:25
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- [00:01]
Cam Jordan
When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses.
- [00:05]
Jessica Hawke
He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawke.
- [00:08]
Cam Jordan
To learn how AI can help.
- [00:09]
Chase Daniel
As a football player, we're really focused on the X's and Nos. It's fun because it's a strategy game as well, and I think that transitions well into the business world. There's so much data underlying every single thing that you're doing in your business and having a way to unify all that data. This is like electricity. This is a major platform shift and I think we're all learning together.
- [00:28]
Cam Jordan
Ready to raise your AI game?
- [00:29]
Jessica Hawke
Find your Winning Edge at Microsoft.com challenge.
- [00:32]
Cam Jordan
Challengers as you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM. This season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks, and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code the Athletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Get download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code theathletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny 467-369 In New York, call 1-800- NEXT STEP in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 In Massachusetts, 1, 800, bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1, 800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title industry company seniority skills. Wait, did I say job title yet. Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results terms and conditions apply.
- [02:19]
Chase Daniel
Foreign welcome into Scoop City. I'm Chase Daniel and we are taking roll call at mandatory mini camps across the league. On today's show, who showed up and who stayed out? Don't forget to like and subscribe for the latest scoop. We read all your comments, Twitter X whatever you want to call it, Instagram, all these posts that we're doing. The YouTube channel has been great. Please like and subscribe. Zach, great to have you back, man. How you doing?
- [03:02]
Jessica Hawke
I know. Let's, let's do this every week. No, I'm just kidding, man. It's good to be back. Let's dig in.
- [03:07]
Chase Daniel
Yes. Tons of news happening across the league this week. 24 teams wrapping up their mandatory minicamps. Aaron Rodgers makes a Steeler debut. What the four time MVP had to say about landing in Pittsburgh. Plus, there is hope for Michael Parsons to get a deal done by training camp. What Micah and Jerry Jones talked about at Cowboys camp. While some players showed up in good faith, there were quite a few that kept their distance. We start with the no shows. TJ Watt, Terry McLaurin, Trey Hendrickson not at mandatory minicamp while they wait for a new contract. The Bengals also have a no show rookie. More drama. And since here's what we're hearing around the league. All right. Three days of mandatory minicamp this week for the Cincinnati Bengals and three days without their star pass rusher Trey Hendrickson. But to add insult to injury, the Bengals rookie defensive end Shemar Stewart left camp Thursday as well after he remains unsigned and super frustrated. Stewart, who has yet to practice this entire off season, he's had a whole lot to say about the front office. Why don't we take a listen right now? Like some people say, we all agree Trey will be right, right? But technically still 1% wrong for being under contract. So in, in my case I'm 100% right. So it should be a no brainer. And in Trey's case, I think it should be a no brainer too. I mean he led 17 and a half seconds to for two years back to back. If I was the GM or I was the owner, take all my money. But I guess they don't operate like that. But all right Zach, it is getting ugly in the jungle. Zach Taylor Thursday telling reporters he isn't going to make predictions About Stewart's return. Trey Hendrickson has said earlier that he will not play this season. And Cincy, he's dug in there without a new deal. What in the world is happening with the Bengals front office?
- [05:05]
Jessica Hawke
Man, when you hear a rookie say about his new team, they just want to win arguments more than they want to win games. Like, are you kidding me? This is bad in Cincy. And I don't think some of the other teams we're going to talk about in a minute are in as bad of a situation. I think the bagels are in a mess right now. You've got the veteran Trey Hendrickson, who I believe is dug in as in like he will miss regular season games if he doesn't get his deal. That's what I think.
- [05:33]
Chase Daniel
Wow.
- [05:33]
Jessica Hawke
And then secondly, when's the last time Chase you can remember a rookie having this much of a toe to toe with the team? I mean this, this doesn't happen anymore. After the new CBA in 2011, these contracts are structured and he's saying he's not asking for anything the team hasn't done before. What the heck is going on? And with the backdrop of this being a notoriously cheap team that has taken a long time to pay its players.
- [05:59]
Chase Daniel
Well, it just takes, it takes the spotlight off of the fact that they got Jamar Chase done that, they got T. Higgins done that. They were really hope Trey Hendrickson. Then all of a sudden, you know, minicamp comes and everyone freaks out. Hendrickson's not there. He's been very public about how he's dug in. I mean I know him personally, Zach and I, I played with him in 2017 with the new Orleans Saints. About the most likable and best teammate I've had. Very, very quiet. So when he's going on national talk shows and when he is consistently and constantly talking, you know he's going to be Doug and he, he missed $104,000 for penalties and fines in minicap that I do feel like that will get done. But eventually I think they'll pay them good money. I don't know what they'll do it. I don't think it'll be the top of the top money anywhere between the 35 and 36, $37 million range. The one thing though, and I follow this scentsy stuff, the one thing that stands out the most to me is Shemar Stewart. Like when you and here's the thing about the Bengals front office. They have a history of not only being cheap, but trying to work stuff into guys contracts That I wouldn't say take advantage, but they try to win arguments. And it's what Shemar said. I agree with that. And the fact is he does have a young agent. He's actually showed up and been a part of stuff without a contract. He was a number 17 overall pick. And for. In layman's terms, I'm going to try to explain it to our audience as as clear as possible. There are fines and there are infractions within an NFL contract that you have that will void your guaranteed money. So usually, not usually, always. What happens is when a first pick, first round pick signs or any other guy signs, they can go back and forth on what this contract should look like. But since the rookie pay scale went in, all these contracts are slotted like 17. They should look at last year, bump it up. All this and it's. It's good. This is what's crazy is that the Bengals are trying to get Shemar Stewart to sign a contract that says if he voids any guarantee in year one for anything like missing weights or missing like whatever they deem, that it'll void the entire contract for guarantees. So that is, first of all unprecedented. Unprecedented. Like it's never happened before. And they sort of said it. They're trying to get Shemar to be the guinea pig. So. So that's about as easily now. There's way more involved. That's about as easily as I can explain what's going on. But how do you see this happening? Because they've done it a few different times.
- [09:05]
Jessica Hawke
He let.
- [09:06]
Chase Daniel
Dude, he left minicamp. He's a rookie. He left minicamp.
- [09:11]
Jessica Hawke
You know, if you would have told me that story and not said what team we're talking about and you gave me one guess, I would have nailed this one. And I think everybody out there listening would have. This is what Shemar Stewart said. He said I'm 100% right. And his teammates are telling him similar things via Arpel Danar Jr. Who's on the ground in Cincinnati. If you spin this forward to football, and I'm really glad you explained the contract nuances here because covering the league for as long as I have, talking to players, talking to agents, talking to executives, more often than not, I'm always going to side with the players because they will just kick you out of town unless you're a special talent. And Those guys are 1 out of 100, they'll kick you out. They'll get someone else new to take whatever deal they want. This is the Bengals cutting corners. This is what They've done for a long time. Remember they only signed Jo Joe Burrow a couple years ago when he was up for a deal three days before the season. He's the best thing to happen to them in 30 years. And if you spin this forward, if you take a little bit of a step back like let's talk about the Bengals and where they're at. Joe Burrow had an MVP season last year. I will say that all summer. I don't know what anyone says the reason he wasn't top two or top three. Josh Allen was great. Lamar was great. It's because the defense kept losing them games and he had to be even better. We're talking about two defensive probably starters. Hendrickson, obviously, Shemar Stewart, 17th overall pick, defensive end. They need everything they can get on the defensive side of the ball, especially in that division. And here we are talking about nonsense distractions. And what did Joe Burrow say this week? He said, yes, I have to admit it is a distraction. Last year it was two contracts. Now they got those done. They paid Jamar, they paid T. Higgins $276 million total. Now we know contracts, they rarely get to the total value, but the point is they're all in on offense. Their offense is good. They've got an MVP candidate. I don't know what the heck they're doing on defense. And this is a mess of the Bengals own making.
- [11:08]
Chase Daniel
Yeah. And look, it's interesting that he said it was a distraction because obviously like I, I played in quite a few locker rooms and I've dealt with quite a few or not dealt with. But I've been a part of and in a locker room with disputes, it doesn't necessarily become a distraction because players know that players are going to try to get the most they possibly can in every single way. And the worst thing about and and I don't think I've ever been a part of anything like this where you're trying to set something new that's never been done before and it's not in the player's favor. I've been a part of guys asking for the most money in NFL history. I'm like let's go. But you have an organization trying to change how contracts are done for. This doesn't only affect and I think we have to be be sure to understand this, this doesn't affect just Shemar Stewart. Every other team that picks after that in the first round for infinity, they're going to be saying look what Shemar signed. And I think that Shemar and his agent both understand that and they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're. We're not going to ruin it for the entire masses. And that's.
- [12:17]
Jessica Hawke
And who else understand flpa? They're keeping close tabs on this as well as they.
- [12:22]
Chase Daniel
Yes. And I was, I was just about to say the union too. I have, I'm a voting. I was a voting rep for eight years. I was a part of three CBAs, three separate CBAs and an uncapped year. I've seen it all. The biggest thing that the NFLPA wants to happen is they're fighting for the players. They want the players to stand not only for your generation, but for next generation as well. So it will be interesting to see how it, how it plays out. If you do see and Shemar signed and if you do see Trey Hendrickson sign a deal, how good can this Bengals defense be? Because that is. And you said it already, but I want to hit on it. They let go of their defensive coordinator, Lou and Arumo, they've gotten a little bit younger. That is without a doubt the reason why, you know, the Bengals didn't make the playoffs. Where do you see this defense taking the next step in this next year?
- [13:18]
Jessica Hawke
Usually when you make a change, usually you see an uptick in performance. Right. They've got some new pieces, they've got a new voice. After a while, players tune out. Some coaches. It just kind of happens over time. Remember Lou Anna Munro was getting head coaching interviews after they made that run to the super bowl and they were one throw away to ja' Marr Chase away from probably winning that game against the Rams. They need to be better because I love what Joe Burrow said a couple of years ago. He said the window is, is open as long as I'm here. Like I love that cockiness from the quarterback. They've got it figured out so true. It's going to get a lot harder and here's why. They're paying so much on the offensive side of the ball and I agree with that. That's what you have to do in today's NFL. We'll get to that when we talk about the Steelers and Aaron Rodgers in a minute. But on defense, they need to take a huge step because Baltimore is not going anywhere. The Steelers have Aaron Rodgers and they're trying to catch up to that second place spot in that division. The Browns don't really need much mention on this podcast, but that's the biggest question mark going into the season. And if Trey Hendrickson is not on the field. This Bengals team is not in the Ravens class.
- [14:21]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, Trey led the league in sacks last year. Let's stay defense and let's stay in the same division. No, T.J. watt in Pittsburgh. Watt is seeking a new contract as he enters a final year of an extension he signed back in 2021. It seemed like just yesterday. Currently the seventh, seventh highest paid edge rusher. Come on now, what are we doing? Reports that nothing has progressed in Pittsburgh. Zach, any concern there?
- [14:44]
Jessica Hawke
No, and here's why. The Pittsburgh Steelers are a grown up organization. The Rooneys do not like distractions. Now they're going to have a couple this year with this new quarterback, I think. Yeah, look, they don't do this. They don't make a mess of things. They're a well run organization. It starts with the ownership. The gm, the head coach has been there forever. And I just don't think T.J. watt's going to be a distraction. This is a fallout not from anything the Steelers did. It's a fallout from what the Browns did with Myles Garrett. They paid him quarterback money. Now T.J. watt is not, in my opinion, Myles Garrett, but T.J. watt is, is the best player on the Steelers roster. And him being the seventh highest paid edge rusher in the league is, is not going to cut it. And you got to think the guy in Dallas, Micah Parsons is going to want some of that. You know these guys, you see the deals get done and it's always like $1 million more than the last guy. That's, that's what we're dealing. Pay T.J. watt. I think they will. I don't think this will be a distraction in training camp, although I do think it will be in Cincinnati. I think Pittsburgh's going to clean this up. Yeah, I'm not so sure about the Bengals.
- [15:46]
Chase Daniel
I, I'd ag. I, I'd agree with you on T.J. watt. Watt led the NFL in sacks in 2020 with 15, 2021 with 22 and a half and 2023. In 19, 2024 he finished with 11 and a half sacks. Oh, but he led the NFL in six, four fumbles. Which I would agree, I would say probably more important than sacks getting the football out. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm just, I'm, I'm not worried like I do think it'll get done. I'm interested to see in T.J. watts camp, are they trying to outweigh Micah Parsons because. Or do you think. Mike, that's what I'm worried about. Does it get to a point where it does become a distraction in training camp because if you're TJ Watt, you want Micah to sign and be like, hey, I know you're probably not going to get more than Micah, but that's sort of the, the, I guess, storyline I'm following there. I would imagine that he would get at least 40 million a year because that is the bar that Miles Garrett set. And I think it's probably the Steelers are saying, man, we just gave 30 million a year to a receiver, T.J. watts, probably in his last contract. Of course we want to pay him. But signing that check for $40 million a year, it's. It shouldn't be hard. I don't think there's going to be an issue with it, but that one to watch. It's not like he's going to hold out like the dude's in. In great shape. He's going to continue to do that. Just how important though is TJ Watt to that defense? Steelers offensively lost their leading passer, their leading rusher, and their leading receiver. Teams that have done that the past three times, which I think is like a spanning. It's a span of 10 years. They finished 2 and 14, 3 and 14, and I believe 5 and 12. So not good. What gives you hope that this Steelers team, given the defensive collapse they had last year, can raise the bar and maybe make the playoffs?
- [17:42]
Jessica Hawke
Well, I'm glad you mentioned the defensive collapse because, you know, this is a team built for 1995, 1998, 2001. Right. Five of their highest salaries on their roster on the defensive side of the ball. 5. The top five. Now, part of that is context, right? Aaron Rodgers is playing for Dirt Cheap. I get that. And then the new receiver, DK Metcalf, has a low base salary. But that being said, let's think about the best teams in the league right now. How are they run? The Philadelphia Eagles have the best roster. I don't think anybody's going to argue with that. Their top eight contracts are all on the offensive side of the ball. The Buffalo Bills, their top three contracts, The Kansas City Chiefs, six of their top seven are on the offensive side of the ball. The one defensive contract is obviously Chris Jones. This is an offensive league and the Steelers are still behind in that category. So you pay T.J. watt. Of course you pay him. He's unbelievable. My question to you is, does this change anything? I mean, they're still the same team and they still have the same problems. They're not going to have a losing Season because Mike Tomlin never has losing seasons. But as they say in Pittsburgh, yeah, play middle, draft middle, stay middle. Like they're just a mediocre team who sneaks into the playoffs and never competes for championships. The problem with that is this is the team with six Lombardies, and that's the standard there.
- [19:00]
Chase Daniel
Yeah. And we'll get into that when we talk Rogers coming up in the B block. But let's just transition quickly before we take a break to Terry McLaurin. No Terry McLaurin. TMAC in D.C. for the commanders. McLaurin is in the last year of his deal and wants a new contract before taking the field. He deserves one, honestly. The Commanders also a wide out, Noah Brown, carted off on the field after suffering an apparent injury during a 7 on 7 drill, per the Washington Post. That is not good. Any panic meter here for scary Terry?
- [19:32]
Jessica Hawke
No. And. And this is. This is a whole new world for the Washington franchise. Right. They have expectations, they have belief from the fan base. They have optimism, which is a new thing for them. I spent some time last year with them. I wrote a big story on Jaden Daniels, and Terry McLaren was absolutely instrumental in getting that rookie to play at the level he did. They have a great locker room. Adam, Peter Peters. Adam Peters pushed all the right buttons. Right. He brought in Bobby Wagner and guys like that, the veterans that kind of changed the culture. I know that's a buzzword and it's a cliche, but they really did. And Terry McLaurin was huge in getting Jaden Daniels to believe from day one he could be the guy. And they went to the NFC championship game, so they need to get this done. This is a good problem to have. You want to have good players that want to be paid, but you got to have that guy for the end quarterback.
- [20:23]
Chase Daniel
I'd agree. I don't. I don't see any, you know, problem with this deal getting done. It's like, what is it going to get done at, though? Because that if you look at DK Metcalf, same draft class, $30 million a year. Scary Terry. My opinion, better receiver than DK Metcalf. Can they even get close to that $30 million? That's going to be interesting to figure out because he is the number one. Now, I know they brought over Deebo and there's been some viral videos of Deebo looking out of shape, running slow and all this stuff. It's just sort of how he works it. It gets better as the season goes on. He gets faster. I get that. Then you Go out, you trade for Larry McTunel. I mean, this is a team that has not rested on a NFC championship. They their window to win and win maybe a possible super bowl or get to the super bowl or win the NFC is wide open because of the year that Jaden Daniels had last year. I love the fact that Adam Peters and Dan Quinn. Dan Quinn is probably not talked about enough. We've talked about him quite a bit on this show. I know people in Washington and you say the culture is a cliche. And I say, yeah, it is. But I also say, you know what, it's very real. He brought belief. He was like the fifth choice in Washington. And what did he do in his first year? I mean, my goodness gracious. And we talked about this sort of. Or I did on this show last year or maybe on the athletic football show. I said, hey, you know in Houston when they had Dimiko Ryan's and they had C.J. charlotte this rookie year. Both rookie years, okay, you completely change the next 10 years of a franchise if you have one of those guys, right? Houston had two of them. They still do. Same with Washington, man. You have two of those guys that are culture guys and the quarterback and the head coach. And I just think they are poised to compete. Where do you quickly, where do you view this commander's team in the NFC hierarchy?
- [22:20]
Jessica Hawke
Well, the Eagles are on top. I think the Lions are still better than the Commanders, although the commanders went to Detroit and smacked them in the playoffs. The reality is they're going to have to do what Houston did last year. And what Houston failed to do was take the next step. That's really hard right now. You have the expectations, now you have the spotlight. The reason I like what Washington's doing is the window is open. Not just because of Jaden Daniels on the field, but because of his contract. When you have a star quarterback on that contract, you have the money and the leeway to go pay the veterans that you want, namely Terry McLaurin. You got to keep them again. That's a tough division. I don't see them winning that division because of the Eagles, which makes things a little bit tougher. But I still think they're in that second tier in the nfc. Everybody's chasing the Eagles, but there's no reason this team can't thank world championship this year and strive for it because they're good enough. If they get hot in the playoffs, they could do it.
- [23:13]
Chase Daniel
They are good enough and they do have the quarterback. All right, a little bit more news wrap right here. Some players did show up to mandatory minicamp. That's a good thing. They did not want to lose out on $104,000. One of them, James Cook on hand in Orchard Park. He is looking for a deal. Still, the Jets Sauce Gardner and Garrett Wilson, both of them showed up. Even Kirk Cousins down in Flowery Branch adds the most expensive backup in NFL history. All right, coming up, more players showing good faith, including Micah Parsons showing up for the Cowboys camp. Plus, you know we're going to talk about it. Aaron Rodgers on the mic after the Steelers first day wrapped. That is next on Scoop City.
- [23:55]
Cam Jordan
When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses.
- [24:00]
Jessica Hawke
He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawk.
- [24:02]
Cam Jordan
To learn how AI can help as a football player.
- [24:05]
Chase Daniel
We're really focused on the X's and Nos. It's fun because it's a strategy game as well and I think that transitions well to the business world. There's so much data underlying every single thing that you're doing in your business and having a way to unify all that data. This is like electricity. This is a major platform shift and I think we're all learning together.
- [24:22]
Cam Jordan
Ready to raise your AI game? Find your winning edge at Microsoft.com challengers as you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season. We'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a 1500 dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least $10. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny467-369 In New York, call 1-800-next step in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico first bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BETMGM yet, use bonus code theathletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager.
- [25:43]
Jessica Hawke
When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward.
- [26:11]
Chase Daniel
All right, we're back. Cowboys all Pro Micah Parsons working out actually on the field for minicamp while he waits for a new deal. Micah was seen talking to owner Jerry Jones on the first day of camp and talked to reporters about his conversations, the latest contract talks. Let's take a listen.
- [26:29]
Jessica Hawke
We were talking about how my offseason's been, the training I've been putting in.
- [26:33]
Chase Daniel
And he told me I look pretty good.
- [26:35]
Jessica Hawke
So I got excited about that. Asked me about the trip. I just went on and, you know, it was pretty. It was a pretty good conversation.
- [26:42]
Chase Daniel
And then obviously just stepping up and being a leader, how much he appreciates I'm here. And, you know, and, you know, that.
- [26:48]
Jessica Hawke
Means a lot to me. How hopeful are you to get a deal done before you go to Oxen? I'm pretty hopeful. I'm still, you know, hanging tight. Like, I understand it's up to him and he gives the green light on everything, so hopefully something's done, you know, by next month.
- [27:02]
Chase Daniel
Zach, do we think Jerry waits until the last second like usual to get a deal done? And will he have to pay even more once Trey Hendrickson gets it done and TJ Watt gets it done?
- [27:13]
Jessica Hawke
Yes, yes. What are we doing?
- [27:16]
Chase Daniel
Jerry Chase does.
- [27:19]
Jessica Hawke
Doesn't this feel more like a show, like a reality show than a competitive football team? And look, I'm going to give, I'm going to give Micah Parsons credit for showing up and being about teammates and being about ball and being a leader on that team. They have a new head coach and it matters that he's there. I really believe. I know it's minicamp, he's a vet. It's not that important in terms of football, but I think his presence matters. But I feel like this is a show, like, I don't need to remind the listeners, but last year, like Jerry was saying, yeah, we're not even close on cd. Lamb, they waited. They overpaid him. Great player, but they paid him a lot. They waited until the day of the regular season started to pay Dak good player. They overpaid him, which constraints what they can do with the rest of the roster. It feels like they're going to do the same thing. And the other thing is, look, Micah Parsons is a great player, but he's not in the T.J. watt league for me and he's not in the Miles Garrett league. And they're going to pay him like he is. And that's what the Dallas Cowboys do. And they're probably going to wait. They're going to overpay and timeless. It just, it just keeps repeating itself. It just feels like it's a reality show that drives headlines conversations like this. And the Cowboys are no closer to that elusive Super Bowl.
- [28:26]
Chase Daniel
And. And so you made a good point because Parsons will likely get $41 million a year, which would then make him the highest paid non quarterback in NFL history. He's worth it. We all think he's worth it. Why are they. Wait, like, can you dive into the why? Because for the life of me, and I've been following this league for a long time in terms of playing, been covering it for only two. I just don't get. While you're. Why you are negotiating against yourself. If you're Jerry Jo Jones, please do your best to explain it to me.
- [29:01]
Jessica Hawke
Man, that's a tough. That's a tough task. I mean, a couple months ago, Jerry said, I don't even know who his agent is. So Parsons is repped by David Mulaguetta. Every owner in this league knows who Mulagueda is because Mulaguetta negotiated the contract that pissed them all off. The DeSean Watson contract. Right.
- [29:19]
Chase Daniel
Fully guaranteed.
- [29:20]
Jessica Hawke
I feel like we're part of a Netflix documentary right now. The Cowboys are just drumming up interesting. They're drumming up theatrics. It feels like it's a show. And I don't know if he loves the spotlight and craves the spotlight, but it just feels like they set themselves up to do this every single year. And look, they have a new coach in there. Last year. Remember what happened? I mean, they fired Mike McCarthy. That was such an awkward, weird thing. He was half interested. He was going to maybe go to the Bears super late. He just said, no, thanks. And then they were just like, oh, we'll just give it to the next guy in line. And I know Brian Schottenheimer and he's really sharp, but shoddy. Like, I never thought to myself, like, like head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. But here we are, and they're going to pay Micah Parsons $40 million. I still think he disappears too much to make that kind of money. He'll just have games where he doesn't have the impact. And when you're paying that kind of cash, you need to impact the quarterback every game. And again, they're in a brutal division and they're no longer chasing the Eagles in the division. They're chasing the Eagles and the Commanders. And it just feels like it's a big show and we're all part of it and we're all playing a role. And it just feels like it has the same ending every single time. Either a disappointing playoff exit or they don't even make it to see the postseason.
- [30:31]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, and that's what I was going to talk about. Because if they do end up paying, and I do think they should pay now, there's no reason they should wait. If they would have paid them the first day that they were allowed to pay them, they would have saved, over the course of a four or five year deal, about $30 million. I know that's like nothing to Jerry. It's a lot, though. Over six, $7 million a year. That's a lot. The other thing, which is interesting, and I'm almost sure this is positive because I had fact checkers at Fox do it, the Cowboys are about to become the first team to pay three separate players over like $32 million a year. So you look at that and you look at the total cap, I know the cap's going to go up next year, possibly to 300 million or whatever number that is. It's hard to build a team if all you do is pay the stars. Now, I do understand that these stars that they have in Dak Prescott, CD Lamb and Micah Parsons are what Jerry Jones wants to be the next Big Three in Dallas. And I agree that they probably can. But let's switch gears for a second to Dak and Dak Prescott, because with Dak, he is only owed $40 million guaranteed next year, in 2026. After that, the contract has zero guarantees. I think Dak's under the most pressure he's been in, in his career to deliver. But if you look at the schedule, if you look at everything around him, if you look at a new play caller, if you look at Brian Schottenheimer as a new head coach, a new team, I know they went out and got George Pickens. What are the expectations, like the clear expectations for Dak and the Cowboys this year, given that they are In a really good division.
- [32:16]
Jessica Hawke
That's really fascinating because they're never a team that's in a rebuild. Right. Jerry just simply will not allow that. But look, they weren't a good football team last year. Their offensive line isn't nearly what it used to be. They had a retirement. What is George Pickens going to do in Dallas? Like, do you have an answer? Like, I. I have no clue. He could fit in and be great, but again, there's only one football and that football is going to go to CD Lamb a lot. Yeah. And they kind of trotted out Zeke last year thinking they could just retread the 2017 rushing title. And it just. It just feels like they're constantly shooting themselves in the foot with personnel decisions. They draft pretty well when they keep Jerry out of the room, if you know what I mean. And they pay their stars. And look, if you're going to pay three stars in this league, the way the league is played right now, you want to pay a defensive end, a receiver and a quarterback and then a left tackle as well. But I just feel like they're nowhere near the roster that Washington has, and they're nowhere close to the roster that the Philadelphia Eagles have. So I think they're a team that's on the outside looking in for those seven playoff spots in the NFC when it's all said and done.
- [33:17]
Chase Daniel
Just 15 months ago, Dak Prescott was voted second in MVP voting. And now, you know, I'm not going to say people are. I'm talking about, hey, if he doesn't make the playoffs and doesn't play well this year, going into what almost looks, seems like a decade into this league, do you think if they don't make the playoffs. This is speculative. I know it. I just. I like it. Do you think they have to start looking for another guy?
- [33:43]
Jessica Hawke
The problem they're in right now, and this is brutally honest, because I think Dak Prescott's a very good football player. He's a B plus player making A plus money, and they just don't have enough around him. I don't mind paying a quarterback $50 million if he's Josh Allen or Mahomes or Lamar or Burrow. But that's probably the end of my list. And the answer to your question, I think, is very fascinating because Jerry Jones leads with his heart a little bit more than his head sometimes. He is on the record saying he loves Dak Prescott. He overpaid him last year and he knew it. And he came out and said, look, if I'm Going to overpay someone, it's going to be Dak Prescott. That's not the best way to run a football team. I think it's a fascinating conversation that they can get out of his contract after this year. If it's disappointing, I just don't see Jerry Jones doing that. I think he loves this guy and I think he's going to ride with them until maybe the wheels fall off.
- [34:35]
Chase Daniel
Off. Yeah, yeah. No, that's true. Good point here. All right, from one quarterback to another, we finally got our first look at Aaron Rodgers in a Steeler uniform this week. He is wearing number eight. Rogers at Pittsburgh mandatory minicamp talked about why he loved the fit with the Steelers. Here we go. You know, I think it starts with Mike Tomlin, and I've been a fan of his for a long time. There's a few iconic franchises in the NFL. I played for one of them for 18 years.
- [35:02]
Jessica Hawke
This is another one, one of those.
- [35:05]
Chase Daniel
There's something special about obviously this, this area. So many great quarterbacks are from Pittsburgh. I feel like Pittsburgh has been a part of my career from the beginning. Playing for Mike McCarthy for 13 years, having Tom Clements with Tommy Clements, depending on how old you are as my quarterback coach forever. Dom Capers, Kevin Green, Darren Perry, Ben McAdoo, Frank Signetti, Luke Getze. I don't want to forget anybody but a lot of yinzers in my life. All right. You can't deny Rogers resume, but at the same time, Father Time is undefeated. He's 41, turning 42 in this season. Miles Garrett already said he can't wait to add Rogers to his Halloween graveyard of QBs he's sacked. Is Rogers in for a shock playing in the almighty AFC North?
- [35:57]
Jessica Hawke
I do think he will end up in Miles Garrett's graveyard.
- [35:59]
Chase Daniel
Yeah.
- [35:59]
Jessica Hawke
I just think Garrett's going to get to him at some point. And the reality is this. I mean, Aaron Rodgers has had more losing seasons, that's three. Than he's had playoff wins since 2017. 2017 was a long time ago. He won two MVPs during that span. Just two playoff wins. And I don't think he was the same player last year with the Jets. And I know he's two years removed from the Achilles right now. But the biggest thing I question, and this goes back to our conversation on Monday, is, is this dude all in like Chase? You know this better than anybody in this league at that position. And I'm doing this big project on quarterbacks and why they don't succeed. You have to be all in you have to basically devote your entire existence to being a professional quarterback. Aaron's done it for a long time. He's really smart, he's really sharp. He's seen all the defenses. But if your heart's not fully in it. And he admitted this on McAfee, like, I got a lot going on in my life. He just got married. He just shows up to minicamp the first day. I don't know if he's all in and if he's not all in. This could just end horrendously.
- [37:00]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, look, it's an interesting conversation for me and I know we talked about it a little bit, but I just. I don't know how much Aaron Rodgers adds to the Pittsburgh steers. Obviously, we talked about them earlier in the show. In general, look, they have dk, but when you lose your leading rusher and you lose your leading receiver, I know DK is going to be fine. They're going to do good things with dk. Briarmuth is good, not great. Right. Reliable weapon for zone in the middle of the field. I'm just not sure if Rogers has enough weapons around him to be successful. Because, look, we don't think this, this defensive collapse is going to happen again like it did last year. Right. Russell Wilson, I believe, started like five one or six and oh, and he ended up six and five as a starter. They really, really tailed off at the end of the season. Justin Fields obviously was there, went 4 and 2 before watching him though the last 10 games of the year and really breaking down. Aaron Rodgers film. It was really good film. He looked from a standpoint of health, fully healthy, Achilles finally trusting it. His game is not as much getting around and outside of the pocket. That's where it gives me pause because that offensive line for Pittsburgh was really bad at times. And you went from two completely different styles of quarterback that likes to run around Justin Fields and Russell Wilson to a guy who in Aaron Rodgers likes to stay static in the pocket, likes to see things. Arthur Smith, I know he's adaptable, but it's a completely different offense. Lots of shifts, lots of motions. What do you think the success is for Rogers and Pittsburgh Steelers this year?
- [38:42]
Jessica Hawke
Don't you think this comes down to his ability to mesh with Arthur Smith? Arthur Smith, like you said, adaptable, sure. But he likes, you know, under center ball control, running the football, and that's fine. That fits with the Steelers. Aaron loves the shotgun. Like you said, he's not the runner. And the in the, you know, extender of plays that he Used to be. But I go back to what you said at the very beginning. I don't think he makes the Steelers that much better. I don't look at the Steelers and say, oh, Aaron Rodgers at this stage of his career is a huge step up from Russell Wilson. I just don't see that Justin Fields did some different things for them last year. I just don't. I don't see them changing. Changing the way I look at the AFC north either. I just think Burrow is, is way ahead and I mean, this is just like basic stuff, but if you look at the divisions, almost every year, the best quarterback in the division, his team wins that division, like almost without a fault. It's. It's how it's run and the AFC east for years and years, and it's just, it's how it's run. And look at the AFC north right now. Lamar Jackson's the king of that division. Burrow can challenge him. I don't see the Steelers in a much different way. And I feel like this is a forced marriage. They can say what they want right now. If Aaron wasn't ready to walk away, he wanted to be wanted. If Aaron wasn't going to go to Pittsburgh, what the heck were the Steelers going to do? Like, literally, who are they going to start?
- [40:03]
Chase Daniel
Yeah.
- [40:04]
Jessica Hawke
Mason Rudolph.
- [40:05]
Chase Daniel
Mason Rudolph.
- [40:06]
Jessica Hawke
Playoff team last year. So I just, I just. The writing seems like it's on the wall and I will eat my words if I'm wrong, but I just don't see any way this team isn't 7, 8, 9, 10 wins at best. They're just not in the class with the top teams in the afc.
- [40:21]
Chase Daniel
Yeah. So we both agree probably that they're in their division. Right. So then that brings me to the next point before we move on. Mike Tomlin. Right. Lot of talk last off season. I think Mike's one of the best coaches in the game. No doubt about it. Super bowl trophy, all sorts of stuff. But there was talk last year in the off season of, hey, is it time to have his Andy Reid moment, meaning move on like how Andy did from Philly? It just sort of maybe overstayed your welcome. We're never going to fire you. He'll never get fired. The one thing that they have struggled with and the person making the decisions on this is Mike Tomlin has been the quarterback position position since Ben Roethlisberger has retired. Right. And even when Big Ben was there, it was an old aging quarterback with a defense, the highest paid defense in the NFL. Where do you see the because this is a one year rental. Where do you see Mike Tomlin playing into this, all this situation? If. If Aaron Rodgers plays one year and they don't get to the playoffs, I know he's not going to get fired. My, my whole thing, they got to figure out the quarterback position, man, isn't this awkward?
- [41:26]
Jessica Hawke
Like they're not going to fire Mike Tomlin. And the one stat that gets thrown around all the time is that he's never had a losing season. But you say that in Pittsburgh around Steelers fans and they will get feisty with you. They don't like that stat. They don't care about average. They don't care about eight and eight seasons or nine and eight. Like that does nothing for them when they have six. Lombardi when you walk into the practice facility, who does this remind you of? What's another aging defensive coach who couldn't get the quarterback position right after his longtime star left, right, Belichick. Belichick's teams in New England were a mess. Offensive, I put that out of my head. They couldn't draft, they couldn't play, they couldn't move the ball on offense. It was abysmal. This is the best coach of all time, right? And Mike Tomlin is a tremendous culture builder. He's a tremendous defensive coach. But this is the blind spot on his resume right now. And I don't know what the Rooneys are going to do, but I don't think Aaron Rodgers at 41 is going to come in and change the narrative that the Steelers haven't been able to figure out offensive football for five years. I just think it's going to be the same old story. Draft middle, stay middle, finish middle.
- [42:30]
Chase Daniel
That's a fascinating point man. All right, coming up, no outright winner for the starting quarterback job in Cleveland. They get four guys competing for a start. What are we doing? Where things stand in Berea after mandatory minicamp. Next on Scoop City.
- [42:50]
Cam Jordan
When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses.
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Jessica Hawke
He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawke.
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Cam Jordan
To learn how AI can help.
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Chase Daniel
As a football player, we're really focused on the X's and nos. It's fun because it's a strategy game as well, and I think that transitions well into the business world. There's so much data underlying every single thing that you're doing in your business and having a way to unify all that data. This is like electricity. This is a major platform shift and I think we're all learning together.
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Cam Jordan
Ready to raise your AI game.
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Jessica Hawke
Find your winning edge@Microsoft.com challengers.
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Chase Daniel
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Jessica Hawke
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Chase Daniel
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- [45:20]
Chase Daniel
All right, the Browns wrapped up their minicamp Thursday, all four quarterbacks taking reps Kenny Pickett, Joe Flacco, Dylan Gabriel and of course, Shador Sanders. Still no definitive quarterback one, which is a little bit crazy, but it's early enough. Cleveland is desperate for stability at quarterback after using 40 that's right, 40 different starting quarterbacks since 1999. Zach, is this one of the craziest situations in the NFL right now? And how does this play out heading into Training camp next month.
- [45:50]
Jessica Hawke
Can we just shout out Zach Jackson, our Browns beat writer at the Athletic, because he has to cover this nonsense again for the whatever. Give him a 15th year in a row. Training camp's going to be wild in Cleveland. And I don't mean that in a good way. I mean, where do you go? Do you go with the veteran? You go with Joe Flacco? I was. I'm in Indy. He was here last year, and he played good, and then he played really, really bad. I mean, how was Dylan Gabriel getting reps ahead of Shador Sanders? The thing I go back to more than anything, and I want to get your thoughts on this Chase, is do you trust the teams? Some teams know how to handle situations like this. They just get it. Some teams don't. I think we know which camp the Browns fall in.
- [46:33]
Chase Daniel
Well, yeah, and I would probably be don't. And this just brings me back to the situation on why Shador Sanders fell. Situations like this are awkward as hell for everyone involved, including the team. Because if. If Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Berry come out and say, hey, it's just Flacco and Pickett competing for the job, then they're chastised or criticized. Why isn't Shedeur doing this? Now they have all four saying. Saying that all four are competing for the starting job, yet anyone in football knows there's not even remotely enough reps or sample size to even get an evaluation on a quarterback. And then of those four guys competing, including Shador, Shador is the only one in camp, mandatory mini camp in all of OTAs not to get any reps with the ones. So now people are like, so if you start Shador or if you don't, this is the situation. Unfortunately, I say that because I think Shador could be a good player in this league. But the Browns have gotten themselves in. I feel like they've tried to get out ahead of this. This has become much more of a spectacle off the field than it is on the field for me. I am torn on this situation because you do draft Dylan Gabriel third overall. They fell in love with his intangibles. You watch Shador Sanders, though, on the field and in college, in my opinion, was a better quarterback, and he fell for all the reasons why. We know this is not that show. To get into that, the competition. In my opinion, there's four way too many. You have to have a plan of attack for when you get back to training camp, because a lot of those training camp practices, Zach, they're open to the public. You can't say that four guys are competing for the job. Not only does it screw with receiver timing, but it's just unrealistic. Get in there, get two guys and I don't care what two guys. I don't think all four are going to be there. I think they're going to trade one or cut one. Probably one of the veterans would be my opinion. It's just a fascinating situation to see how it plays out because the Cleveland Browns have two first round picks next year. Obviously they traded that Travis Hunter 1. The quarterback class, from what we hear and what I have seen, very small amounts, is a much stronger class. Almost like the Jaden Daniels, the Caleb Williams, the Bo Nixes in terms of depth. Top guys. I could see four to five guys going in the first round, including possibly Arch Manning, which, you know, we don't know how he's going to play. There's a lot of. So if you do draft and they drafted, and I know I'm being long, but we'll stay with it. If you drafted Dylan Gabriel and you drafted Shador Sanders, you have two veterans which you sort of know what you're going to get. Those two veterans, in my opinion, they're not the franchise quarterback of this franchise moving forward. So why not maybe play Dylan Gabriel? Why not maybe play Shador Sanders maybe a little bit earlier than you think. Because you want to get a true evaluation and the only true evaluation from Andy Reid, from, from Sean Payton. The coaches I've been with, you have to play. So do. Are they good enough to not draft a quarterback next year? It's just there's so many layers of this conversation. I digress. Thoughts on what I just told you and spewed to you?
- [50:02]
Jessica Hawke
Well, it's a delicate dance the Cleveland Browns are trying to pull off right now. It's, it's, it's going to be really interesting. They're playing the long game and I do think their GM is pretty smart. Andrew Berry, I got to know him when he was in Indy. But the problem is, like you said, there's four quarterbacks competing for the job and there's not enough footballs to go around. And even if Shador does get reps in training camp, who's he going to be throwing to? 3rd and 4th stringers. And if he ever gets on the field for the Cleveland Browns in a regular season game, he's going to have no rapport with the, with the first teamers. And that's just going to be what I'm talking about all the time in terms of setting up these young quarterbacks to fail. And if he's not getting those records, he's not going to have a prayer. I think he's a trade piece probably eventually. But again, it doesn't seem like the Browns have a solidified plan of what they're going to do. But I think at the end of the day, gun to their head, they will never admit this publicly. They're looking at 20, 26, they're looking at the top of that draft. They're going to use those true first round picks on their future.
- [51:00]
Chase Daniel
If you had to guess, how do you see this playing out?
- [51:04]
Jessica Hawke
I think it's going to be a soap opera. As one GM told me and you made a good point a minute ago. The beauty of training camp is that fans are there, report are there. We get to see everything. What the GM told me was you watch the same tape I do. So the fans and the reporters are going to see how these guys look. They're going to see if Shador is way better than Dylan Gaber or vice versa. They're going to see if Kenny Picket's way better than 45 year old Joe Flacco. I think it's going to be a mess. I don't think they have a chance to compete in the AFC north and I think they're going to have to trade one of the rookies probably. Wow.
- [51:40]
Chase Daniel
Rookies, huh? Huh.
- [51:42]
Jessica Hawke
They're not going to have enough reps. I mean if they keep Shadour off the field, maybe that helps them because I, I don't know man. Let me, let me know what you're thinking. Cleveland Browns cuz I can't figure it out.
- [51:52]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, and the dog pounds fired up right there as your dogs are barking in the background. So they like our conversation for sure. All right guys, thank you so much for listening to Scoop City. We appreciate you for Zach Kefer. I am Chase Daniel. Bye guys. Guys, tag me next time.
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Jessica Hawke
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