Chase Daniel explains why Jaxson Dart NEEDS to be the Week 1 starter

Summary

Scoop City: A Show About the NFL

Episode: Chase Daniel Explains Why Jaxson Dart NEEDS to Be the Week 1 Starter
Date: August 19, 2025
Hosts: James Palmer, Diana Russini, Chase Daniel
Podcast by The Athletic

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into NFL preseason quarterback battles, with a focus on the New York Giants’ Jaxson Dart and the cases for and against starting the rookie Week 1 over veteran Russell Wilson. The conversation spans analysis of Caleb Williams’ Chicago debut, updates on Trey Hendrickson’s trade situation, Terry McLaurin’s contract impasse, and key rookie competitions around the NFL. The tone is lively, insightful, and often humorous, with rich behind-the-scenes NFL context and coach/player anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Case for Jaxson Dart as Giants’ Starter

Performance & Roster Dynamics

• Chase Daniel praises Dart’s preseason:
  “I was loving every single throw, just the performance in general of Jaxson Dart. And that's why I was so enthused about talking about Jaxson Dart. Because a lot of people nationally aren't. And for right measure, you have a future hall of Famer in Russell Wilson.” (06:30)

• Brian Daboll tailoring offense:
  The Giants are running plays Dart ran at Ole Miss, including tempo and short/intermediate throws.
  “Brian Daboll’s already put in plays Dart was running at Ole Miss... I think the up tempo of the New York Giants offense, which is what Brian Daboll wants, the short intermediate throws, which is what Brian Daboll wants...” (07:54)

• Russell Wilson's fit and future:
  Russell Wilson is respected but seen as less dynamic, especially as a runner. Chase jokes about talking to Russ in the San Diego car line, offering personal context.

• Coaching hot seat:
  “If they don’t make the playoffs with Russell Wilson starting, Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen—they lose their jobs. That's just... the hot seat is as hot as it's ever been.” (08:18)

Roster, Schedule & Job Security

• Brutal Giants’ schedule start:
  “Hardest, like first like 10 games in the NFL, in my opinion. It's not even close... a lot of playoff teams.” (09:04)

• The rookie starter trend:
  “Last five years, first round quarterbacks... the average week of them starting is Week 3.” (09:18)

• Practical argument for Dart:
  Even with a tough opening slate, if the team is trending up behind Dart, it could buy time for the regime.
  “Seven or eight wins in a trending up Giants team with Jaxson Dart—that buys Brian Daboll and Joe Schoen more time...” (09:33)

Debate: Play the Rookie Early or Sit Him?

• Fan/media patience vs. actual developmental need:
  “All the fans and certain pundits, they're like, he needs to sit, he needs to sit, he needs to sit... The only way to develop as a quarterback in the National Football League is to play real games. Forget about practice, forget about preseason.” (10:49)

• Potential negatives if Dart starts Week 1?
  Diana: Giants insiders feel “the moment isn’t too big” for Dart. (11:17)
  Chase: “The positive to not playing him... you get to see a future Hall of Famer and his process... it's a learning experience I can get behind.” (12:18)

• Stats on Dart’s preseason:
  “First game: 12 of 19 for 154, a touchdown, no sacks. Number two: 14 of 16, including 13 straight… he did run one in there… Dart said after the game he asked to go up-tempo more in the second half. That dialogue is valuable.” (13:38)

• Memorable callback – Giants’ draft drama:
  “Love the idea that the general manager's son is the one that leaked out that the Giants were drafting [Dart]…” (14:30)

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2. Caleb Williams’ Encouraging Start in Chicago

• Hype and Bears fan PTSD:
  “Chicago Bears fans, I get it. You have been burned so many times before this preseason hype... It is OK to be excited about Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson, because what they did yesterday… they looked extremely sharp.” (16:33)

• Ben Johnson’s aggressive install:
  “Ben was doing this on purpose to get his quarterback ready... they're front-loading everything so you're going to feel literally like you're drowning. Then they're going to start to pull back layers.” (18:51)

• Preseason performance:
  “13 snaps, 6 for 10, 107 yards, 97 yards on first drive. He was sharp, found his tight end. Throw to snap was less than 3 seconds.” (16:33)

• Coach/player communication adapting:
  On switching from college (signals) to NFL (coach in ear):
  “This is the first time... he's hearing Ben Johnson over and over. They're trying to get on the same wavelength. A play at USC could be ‘black’ or ‘yellow’... Here, it's ‘green right slot nasty Z motion, fake 37 Buster solid naked right X sting...’” (22:11, Chase Daniel)

• Diana on camp perception:
  “I think they're excited and they should be, but also reserved about it because it just has felt like camp wasn't as smooth as we expected it to be.” (18:04)

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3. Quarterback-Rookie Coach Pressure Meter

• Who’s under more pressure: Trevor Lawrence/Liam Coen or Ben Johnson/Caleb Williams?
  Both Diana and Chase: Lawrence & Coen!
  “He hasn’t lived up to expectations… this is sort of Trevor Lawrence’s last lifeline.” (24:52, Chase Daniel)

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4. Trey Hendrickson’s Trade Situation in Cincinnati

• What’s the holdup?

  • Bengals want a future 1st-round pick and a young defensive player.
  • Other teams balking at both the price and timing (late in offseason, cap mostly spent): “Most teams have spent a lot of their money.” (28:47)

• Cincinnati’s predicament:
  “The fact that we're talking about trading their best defensive player when their worst unit was their defense last year, like, what? ...Just pay the man two years guaranteed, move on with your life.” (29:27, Chase Daniel)

• Potential Patriots move?
  “Could you see New England being interested in Trey Hendrickson?” (31:49)
  Diana: It’s unlikely, despite cap space and their football culture focus.

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5. Terry McLaurin Contract Stalemate

• Active, but contract unchanged:
  “Nothing significant has changed.” (37:27, Diana Russini quoting source)

• Negotiation sticking points:
  Commanders say: You’re 30, can’t pay you like you’re 27.
  McLaurin camp: You need him, he wants $30 mil-plus per year.
  “I think he's worth the 30 million. And I'm always going to be pro player.” (41:26, Chase Daniel)

• Value argument:
  “The fact that what he's done with 11 different quarterbacks… shows you what his future production could be.” (41:42, James Palmer)

• Front office philosophy:
  Adam Peters trying to set new Commanders precedent: “He does need to establish how the Commanders will do business moving forward.” (43:50)

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6. Cleveland Browns’ QB Room & Roster Conundrum

• Joe Flacco named Week 1 starter:
  No surprise, but questions remain about backup hierarchy (Dylan Gabriel vs. Shedeur Sanders vs. Kenny Pickett), and the Browns possibly keeping four QBs.

• Dylan Gabriel’s up-and-down preseason:
  “I thought he played really well…except for two snaps. Both [turned into] turnovers that led to 13 Eagles points… the turnovers stand out.” (50:13, Chase Daniel)

• Competition dynamic:
  “If something happens to Joe Flacco, I’m the first person Kevin Stefanski’s looking at—that’s the real competition.” (51:52, Diana Russini)

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7. Coaching Soundbites & Memorable Moments

Kevin O’Connell (Vikings) on JJ McCarthy & QB Development

[58:01–60:31]

“The foundation of developing quarterbacks is not an overnight thing. It’s not a flash reaction thing. I think that's what gets organizations in trouble sometimes... But all with an understanding... what are you doing as a coach, as an organization, as a teammate, as one of 11 in the huddle with said player to make sure that we're doing everything in our power to give the best possible chance to have success.”
— Kevin O’Connell (58:01)

Chase Daniel’s reaction:
“JJ McCarthy is so freaking lucky to have him as his head coach... so many head coaches in this league do NOT get it.” (60:34)

Mike Vrabel (Patriots Head Coach) on Team Identity & Pet Peeves

[62:31 & 65:41]

“When we score, we want to be able to celebrate and not just think, oh, you know, we just... when the quarterback does things, everybody else says, oh, that must be the right thing to do.” (62:54)

Team mentality:

“We’re never going to accept losing, but we have to embrace moving on... whatever the predictions are, or the expectation, the expectations are that we compete, that we try to be good enough to take advantage of bad football, that we’re not beating ourselves.” (63:19)

Vrabel’s “grinds my gears” rant:

“People, when they leave their carts in the middle of the parking lot... people at Starbucks that park in a handicap spot and go in there and try to get their order from the mobile order who are in handicap. By no means handicapped... That’s unacceptable!” (65:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the Giants’ sit/start conundrum:
  “The only way to develop as a quarterback in the National Football League is to play real games. Forget about practice, forget about preseason.”
  — Chase Daniel (10:49)

• On Chicago Bears’ camp:
  “It is OK to be excited about Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson... They looked extremely sharp.”
  — Chase Daniel (16:33)

• On league-wide QB trends:
  “The last five years, first-round quarterbacks...the average week of them starting is Week 3.”
  — Chase Daniel (09:18)

• On coaching the details:
  “JJ McCarthy is so freaking lucky to have him as his head coach... There are so many head coaches in this league that do not get it.”
  — Chase Daniel (60:34)

• Vrabel on parking lot etiquette:
  “I wish I had a boot. That's a great idea. I would boot their car just like a mobile boot and said, I parked in a handicap spot and I'm not handicapped.”
  — Mike Vrabel (66:24)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [04:57] Introduction of Jaxson Dart’s preseason hype and Giants’ QB debate
• [06:30] Chase Daniel’s in-depth breakdown of Dart’s preseason performance and fit
• [09:53] Giants’ tough opening schedule—why QB decision is critical
• [10:49] The “sit vs. start” rookie QB debate
• [13:38] Dart’s stat lines and the importance of QB-coach dialogue
• [16:33] Caleb Williams’ preseason debut, Chicago fan emotions, and Ben Johnson’s scheme
• [22:11] The challenge of switching from college to NFL playcalling
• [24:05] Pressure Meter: Lawrence/Coen vs. Williams/Johnson
• [29:27] Trey Hendrickson trade talk, Bengals' defensive issues
• [37:19] Terry McLaurin’s contract standstill update
• [41:26] The “is he worth it?” debate: paying McLaurin $30M
• [47:02] Browns’ QB conundrum and backup battle
• [50:13] Dylan Gabriel’s preseason critique
• [58:01] Kevin O’Connell on patient QB development
• [62:31] Mike Vrabel on Patriots' identity and player leadership
• [65:41] Mike Vrabel’s parking lot “grinds my gears” rant

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Episode Tone & Style

The show features a lively, friendly rapport among the hosts—packed with deep NFL knowledge, humor, and a no-nonsense approach to analysis. There are playful jabs, personal anecdotes, and moments of genuine insider insight. Quotes are often vibrant and direct, giving listeners both information and entertainment.

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Summary Takeaways

• The Giants’ QB decision is a microcosm for modern NFL risk management—the conversation blends film analysis, coaching seat warmth, and macro league trends.
• Caleb Williams has energized Chicago’s hopes, with both optimism and caution as hallmarks of the fan/media mood.
• Contract situations (Hendrickson, McLaurin) reflect broader front office philosophies around risk, age, and precedent—mirrored in how teams approach trades and extensions.
• Coach soundbites provide real windows into team-building philosophies, with both O’Connell and Vrabel embodying stability and accountability.
• The podcast leans on humor and authenticity—from Vrabel ranting about parking abusers, to personal stories about parenting and coaching, providing relatable levity amid heavy football talk.

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For New Listeners

This episode offers a packed, colorful tour through some of the NFL’s most intriguing preseason battles and storylines. With expert insight, rich banter, and a focus on both football culture and strategy, it’s essential listening for any football fan looking to understand the league’s inner workings heading into the 2025 season.

Transcript

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[Diana Rossini]

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[James Palmer]

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[Diana Rossini]

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[James Palmer]

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[Chase Daniel]

It's pretty much all he talks about.

[James Palmer]

In a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy.

[Chase Daniel]

What's in your wallet?

[James Palmer]

Terms apply. See capital1.com bank capital1na member. FDIC.

[Diana Rossini]

If you have him on your roster, that means your quarterback is going to be healthy because he never plays.

[Chase Daniel]

That's like me. I started five games in 14 years. No one got hurt.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, you've got a soft spot, Diana.

[Chase Daniel]

Have you?

[James Palmer]

Did you ever wish for anybody to get hurt? Chase?

[Chase Daniel]

Absolutely not. You thought I was gonna say absolutely not?

[James Palmer]

I was waiting for you to say yes.

[Diana Rossini]

I. I was like, I love this. Like, you awful human. I understand.

[James Palmer]

All right. Welcome in to Scoop City. I'm James Palmer. We have a lot to cover. We have Trey Hendrickson. Is he going to be on the move? Diana, is get you the latest there. Could he actually leave Cincinnati? We still have three quarterback jobs that haven't been decided just yet. When will those decisions happen? Terry McLaurin is off the PUP list. What does that mean? I don't know. We'll see. Don't forget to like or subscribe. You got to say smash, Diana. We got to say smash that, like, button. I think they say they got to say annihilate that subscribe button, Chase. We're here with senior NFL Insider, Diana Rossini. Diana, you're back from your travels. How are you?

[Diana Rossini]

I am back. I'm great. I loved Minnesota. I could have stayed there for another week. It's. The weather's perfect, that people are lovely. The food was excellent. Yeah, it was. It was a great trip. And it was great to just be around the Minnesota Vikings knowing that they're cooking something there. James.

[James Palmer]

They're cooking. Well, they're cooking something. I like to enjoy Minnesota. This is like that small window where everybody loves Minnesota. It's like we're on the lake. We're having the time of our life. It's incredible.

[Chase Daniel]

It's amazing.

[James Palmer]

Oh, it's next level now. It's like a. It's like a. It feels like a four and a half week period. Chase. Like, where it's gonna get to golf.

[Chase Daniel]

For, like, one month? Like, that's what Chicago was. Chicago was like. You get the golf for, like two months, but it's the best golf in the world.

[James Palmer]

Exactly right. And you mentioned Chicago.

[Diana Rossini]

What is it about the bad weather cities that have such great summers? Why. Why does it work like that?

[Chase Daniel]

Well, the summers are like two months, and then the bad weather is the other 10 months out of the year. At least that was Chicago. It snowed in June when I was in Chicago.

[James Palmer]

I think that the winter makes the summer that much better because you went through that winter, that revolving door everywhere in Chicago. Speaking of Chicago, Yeah, seasons are great. You don't have that in San Diego, which is. Oh, woe is me down in San Diego. Speaking of Chicago, we'll have Chase breaking down everything with Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson in that marriage, has it finally come together? We'll see. But when we were having our production meeting, Chase, you were like, I feel like I'm pitting a little bit. We'll see. But you were like, hey, there's something else I want to talk about. This should lead the show.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah.

[James Palmer]

Jackson Dart. Jackson Dart has been outstanding, Chase. And I'm going to start with this. This question to you. Has any quarterback, not rookie, any quarterback played better this preseason than Jackson Dart for the Giants?

[Chase Daniel]

Other than Jared Situm? No. Jared Situm is the. He's an mvp. Stitty is bawling. He really, honestly, like, I don't know what the Saints are doing with their quarterback situation, but if I was Kellen Moore, I would have Stitty on the phone. I know Sean Payton loves him, but the Jackson Dart, that's something for you to Chase down, Diana.

[James Palmer]

The Jackson teams are interested in city, by the way. Talked to one the other day.

[Chase Daniel]

Exactly. We just have a whole thing about.

[Diana Rossini]

Him we really don't think the Broncos are gonna do.

[James Palmer]

I don't think they are. I think they love him.

[Chase Daniel]

Yes, but he's playing so good. Other than that.

[Diana Rossini]

The funny little thing about him is if you have him on your roster, that means your quarterback is going to be healthy because he never plays.

[Chase Daniel]

That's like me. I started five games in 14 years. No one got hurt.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, you've got a soft spot, Diana. Did you ever wish for anybody to get hurt, Chase?

[Chase Daniel]

Absolutely not. You thought I was gonna say absolutely?

[James Palmer]

I was waiting for you to say yes.

[Diana Rossini]

I. I was like, I love this. Like, you awful human. I understand it now.

[James Palmer]

Yeah. I. Chase just throwing something out there to trip somebody up. Okay. All right.

[Chase Daniel]

We digress.

[James Palmer]

Jackson Dart might feel that way because it's still Russell Wilson Chase to start the season. But what. What? Take us inside. What he's doing right now, I. I.

[Chase Daniel]

Think, you know, I. I was loving every single throw, just the performance in general of Jackson Dart. And that's why I was so enthused enthusiasms about talking about Jackson Dart. Because a lot of people nationally aren't. And for right measure, you have a future hall of Famer in Russell Wilson. We saw the moon ball 80 yards down the field, came back through an interception. But what Brian Dabel is doing, I think it's. It's it's really interesting because James, you and I and Diana, we're all texting during the game and like, wait, why are they taking Russell Wilson out? Why are they putting Jackson Darden to throw a 30 yard screen? Why are they doing this? And it's just like, it's a little bit weird, it's a little bit outside the box. But if you think about the New York Giants season, they need weird. They need outside the box. And what Jackson Dart gives them, he gives them a legitimate threat running football, which Russell Wilson does not do anymore. And I love Russ. Like Russ lives literally right down the road from us in San Diego in the off season. Like me and Sierra, we're in the line at car pickup. We're tight. Like it's cool. Like I like Russ, but yeah, that's, That's a hot fact for you. Diana knew that. Um, but with Russ, right? I think you have a certain ceiling for the New York Giants. And I think when we were talking about this, the roster is really good. And when you look and actually break down the film of what Jackson Dart is doing, there's some plays that Brian Dable's already put in that he was running at Ole Miss. Like that one nice throw over the middle where he fakes it to the.

[James Palmer]

Right like, oh, that's an old misplay.

[Chase Daniel]

Like it. It's just an Ole Miss play. And I think that the up tempo of the New York Giants offense, which is what Brian Dabel wants, the, the short intermediate throws, which is what Brian Dabel wants, they don't even have Malik neighbors right now. Jackson Dart hasn't really even got a chance to throw to him. They got an amazing defense front. Look, I don't know if this team is going to make the playoffs and I've said this and we can talk about it at length, but if they don't make the playoffs with Russell Wilson starting, Brian Dabel and Joe Shane, they lose their jobs. That's just. That's it's been on ice. It feel like the hot seat is as hot as it's ever been.

[Diana Rossini]

If you go out there, hot ice.

[Chase Daniel]

And hot, like it's icy hot. Diana, it's icy.

[Diana Rossini]

I think we've been saying is the, the I. We. We've been putting it on ice, meaning we've gone probably soft on it. But the reality is. Right. Yeah, the reality is jobs are on. Their jobs are on the line because the way John Mera essentially kept them and ha. Remember how he described them when he decided to stick with them? It was like he was eating a lemon. It was like, I guess they're the guys, you know. So I, I, you're 1,000% correct that the pressure is on them to be successful and win some games here.

[Chase Daniel]

And, and that's what I was saying with dart though. Like, look, we can look at the schedule and we looked at the schedule I think last Monday. It's a brutal start. The hardest, like first like 10 games in the NFL. In my opinion. It's not even close. A lot of playoff teams, you can't just throw a young rookie quarterback out there to the wolves. I get that, like Russell Wilson's probably going to be the starter. But, but I've said this before, Diana and James, I'm sure you've heard of this. It's like the last five years, first round quarterbacks, like quarterbacks taken in the first round. No matter the pick, the average week of them starting is week three. The last five years, when you draft a quarterback in the first round, you start. I feel like seven or eight wins in a trending up Giants team with Jackson Dart. That buys Brian Dabel and Joe Shane more time because they have drafted the quarterback of the future.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. Six of their first eight games are against playoff teams from last season. Right.

[James Palmer]

It's brutal. I'll run through it for you, Diana. Ready at Washington, at Dallas, Kansas City, Chargers, Saints, Eagles, Broncos, Eagles, Niners.

[Chase Daniel]

That's Saints is the 1 in 7. Like, tell me if you find other for like, for sure wins. I'm not even sure the Saints could be good. Like, it's just, it's a tough stretch for a young rookie quarterback. So I understand what Brian Dabel is doing. But if this season doesn't go as planned, right off the bat like it, they should be talking in New York to play the young guy. And here's before I let you in, Diana, because I know you're about to talk. The one thing that just grinds my gears there, it's my gears more than anything. All right. Is the fact that people in fans and certain pundits, they're like, he needs to sit, he needs to sit, he needs to sit. I get that. Like, you're like, oh, look at Patrick. They had Alex Smith, they went to the play all this stuff. The only way to develop as a quarterback in the National Football League is to play real games. Forget about practice, forget about preseason. You have to learn on the job and hopefully you're good enough.

[James Palmer]

I have to ask this question then to both of you, what is the net? Because this is what everybody's curious about, what is the negative of playing Jackson Dart Week 1?

[Diana Rossini]

Diana, I think Chase said it already. I think it's rolling there against teams that are going to be ferocious and take advantage of a rookie quarterback. This is always the debate on whether or not to go with these young guys. I think what they have in their favor, though, after talking to someone with the Giants this morning, they feel like the moment isn't too big, the game isn't too big for him.

[James Palmer]

Well, if that's the case.

[Diana Rossini]

Right.

[James Palmer]

Will his confidence not be shook?

[Diana Rossini]

I just think the fact that a rookie this early in the season.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

That the team already feels that. What. What better way to impress as a young player and, and a coaching staff like Brian Dables that ask a lot from a quarterback in terms of understanding the playbook, understanding his offense and, and being able to go out there with all the pressure and with the veterans around you, I would be curious. And it's, it's. It's something I, you know, maybe we can look into it, what that dynamic is in that quarterback room. Like, how much is Russ helping him.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah, and that's. That's a good point. And to answer your question, and to piggyback off Diana, because I think Diana said it perfectly, it like the negative to playing him. I would say the positive to not playing him. Let's spin it like that. To not playing him, is. Is during a week when you're in the quarterback room, especially in season. Right. Once you get in season mode, you are looking. Who do they play first? James? The commanders.

[James Palmer]

They play commanders.

[Chase Daniel]

Yep, Commanders. You are literally just studying the commanders and you're studying their defense. And it is so locked in on this game plan. I think the positive for sitting in for two or three or four weeks, whatever it is, is you get to see a future hall of Famer. And his process. It's a different process than what it is in the preseason. You are watching how he breaks down film, how he watches third down, how he watches red zone, how he does all this stuff. And when you see that and you're able to see it from the sideline view and the game plan play out and go through different adversities. That's a learning experience. I can get behind. And so that's something like, all right, like, let's see it from outsider's perspective, where you have the headset on, where you're hearing Dable in a real game cuss and scream. And I don't know if he does all that, but it just sounds Cool. But like that's. It gets heated in how you handle different things, points of games. Does that make sense?

[James Palmer]

Totally. It's all part of the process. Right. That's why there's certain coaches that have been around forever, like say a Gary Kubiak that will die saying that a quarterback needs to sit that first year, that all of the things you're mentioning, Chase, are the reasons why. By the way, these are like Jarrett Stidham numbers. So I just wanted to throw them out there. Jackson Dart, in the first game, he goes 12 of 19 for 154, a touchdown, no interceptions and no sacks. In number two for Dart, he goes 14 of 16, including 13 straight for 1/3 37 of touchdown interceptions. Remember, he did run the other one in there. And I also thought this was unique. And I want to mention this before we move on. Dart said after the game that he asked to go up tempo more in the second half. And that dialogue to me is very valuable if it's already there between him and the coaching staff. Anybody have anything else on Dart before we move on to another quarterback performance that was outstanding.

[Diana Rossini]

I still just love the idea that the general manager's son is the one that leaked out that the Giants were drafting. Remember that?

[Chase Daniel]

Oh my gosh, I forgot about that. Great callback, remember?

[Diana Rossini]

And. And people with the Giants are like, oh no, no, they're just good friends, which I think they are. But that was awesome. That was good drama that morning.

[Chase Daniel]

That's hilarious.

[James Palmer]

It really, it really was. And I remember. Let's remember this, by the way, as we continue to evaluate what's going on with Jackson Dart. I don't asking around the league, I don't think anybody put in more work. And Diane, I'd like your your opinion on this. More work on quarterbacks over the last calendar year than the Giants. Like in terms of hours.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. Because it's called job status.

[James Palmer]

It was very, very vital. You work extra hard when you're.

[Diana Rossini]

And look, their off season was with their quarterback situation. Remember how judgy we were? We're like, what are you doing? Russell Wilson, James Winston, Aaron Rodgers, they were in on, remember around the combine, they, they were offering him buckets of money trying to get him and allure him to New York. Stafford eventually went back to the Rams and you know, we're going to keep an eye on that story as that continues to evolve every day in terms of what the status of him is going to be. You know, no one seems to be panicking, but we'll get some more Information coming up on that soon. James.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah.

[James Palmer]

Awesome. I remember seeing Joe Shane at the showcase. Not a pro day, the showcase at cu. And he was. We were asking him about his quarterbacks he had, and he was like, what did you want me to do? Like, we didn't have a whole lot of options before this.

[Chase Daniel]

Dropped a veto.

[James Palmer]

We needed somebody. Yeah. Let's go to Caleb Williams, where everybody was waiting, guys, for what Caleb Williams was going to do in his preseason debut. Operating with Ben Johnson, the new head coach there. The offensive mind, the guru. In 13 snaps over two drives, Caleb Williams goes 6 for 10 for 107 yards, 97 yards on that first drive. That was outstanding. Chase, you wanted to talk about Caleb. We bumped him up in the rundown because this is a huge deal. I know it's the preseason, but a huge deal for Chicago and their fans to just see this. Right?

[Chase Daniel]

Let me just. Before I get into, like, what. What we saw the film. Let me just preface this, because we do have a lot of Chicago fans, right? University of Missouri, like, people, listen. I get it. Right? Here's the deal. Chicago Bears fans, I get it. You have been burned so many times before this preseason hype. You're doing this. You don't want to buy into it. You this and, oh, our defense, and we're a deep. We've never had a quarterback to throw for 4,000 guys. It is okay to be excited about Caleb Williams and Ben Johnson because what they did yesterday, and everyone's gonna say it's just preseason. Right? They looked extremely sharp. And if you listen to Ben Johnson's presser after he tells you, the last four days, Caleb Williams has been absolute nails. He threw for 97 yards on the first drive of the game. He was sharp. He found his tight end, Zanna. We have talked about it multiple times with drafting Colson Loveland and having Cole Comet, that 12 personnel package that the Chicago Bears want to use. And then you look at Missouri guy Luther Burden getting his nose dirty. Like, I just loved everything about what Caleb Williams does because he was quick, he was efficient. He. He. It was like, throw to snap was less than 3 seconds and everyone. He didn't turn the ball over. There wasn't a lot of, like, misunderstanding of what's going on with the offense. The marriage seems to be working well. And it's okay. Chicago Bears fans to be excited because I'm excited.

[Diana Rossini]

I think they're excited and they should be. But also reserved about it because it just has felt like the camp wasn't as smooth as we Expected it to be. I think there's a lot of hype around what Ben Johnson can do. Remember back at the owner's meeting, he was like, I want, I want Caleb ripping it. You know, I want him taking all those chances, emphasizing all of that. And guess what? It sounds like they gave him a lot. And it appears that they gave him a lot at training camp here and perhaps at a. At a fast. Maybe too fast of a. Of an ability for him to digest it all. But yeah, this was part of it. Right? So knowing that Ben was doing this on purpose to get his quarterback ready, like, how do you. How are. How. Have you seen that on film? Yeah, just taking some shots.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah, great call. Because I have watched some practice footage just from like here and there and then when you watch them on film. That's a great point. And it sounds like someone else we know and love on this show. Sean Payton. Sean Payton did that to every. Even drew, like year 10. Like, he was like, we're going to give you even more. We're going to front load it because we want to see how you process information. This is talking about Caleb now. We're going to front load everything. We're going to throw everything at you so you're going to feel literally like you're drowning. And then we're going to start to pull back layers. We're going to start to add in layers that you feel comfortable with. The rpo, the bootleg game. I think getting Caleb out of the pocket seven to eight times a game is probably smart. He throws really well on the run, going both to your right and to your left. So when you do that and people remember those videos that went viral, like Caleb throwing at the. That the net, it's like, oh, my God. Okay, this is training camp. Training camp is practice. Practice makes perfect. Perfect. Practice makes perfect. You're not going to be perfect in practice. Some coaches almost say, hey, play free. We invite the mistakes in practice. So come game time. And look, they played their starters. I liked it. That's what Ryan polls was saying. Like, we're going to play our starters, we're going to get some work in. It's exactly what Andy Reid and the Chiefs did. So it's a really, really good start. It's telling for them now, regular season, it'll be different, but he's directly on the right path, in my opinion.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, Chase loved it. Diana loved it. My wife watching me last night, she's like, this guy throws a hell of a ball. She's Football talk. There you go. This is Mac roll this. This is what Chase thought. I mean, this is what Caleb thought of his performance. Yeah.

[Kevin O'Connell]

He'S, he's a lot more calmer on game day, game day in the mic than he is in practice with me.

[Chase Daniel]

So it's, it's.

[Kevin O'Connell]

It's great. You know, it was exciting. Kind of sitting there having the, the headpiece in my ear right after, you know, I kind of have my. How many ever plays I had and been able to listen to him and encourage the guys and you know, I think there was a moment where.

[Chase Daniel]

I.

[Kevin O'Connell]

Think we were going forward on fourth down or something like that and something happened to play before, something, you know, where we got the call back and we ended up lining up. He was like, you know, we're going to go get this right here. And so it's just small notes like that that are encouraging the moment. And it's something, you know, that I don't know if he knows and he's conscious of it, but it's important to us, you know, QBs when we're out there and you know, having those small notes. So it's like I said, he's a lot calmer on game days in the mic and, you know, that's a small note.

[James Palmer]

Speaking of his head coach, Ben Johnson there, Diana.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, I just immediately think when he's talking about the wildness, you know, of this coach in his ear. Chief, we've talked about this on the show before about what that does to a quarterback and how like the first time Sean was in your ear of just how difficult that was to. To just get accustomed to that. Even Drake May at camp in, in Minnesota, when we were talking to him about Josh McDaniels in his ear. He talks a lot more than his previous OC Yeah, it's just trying to, to get used to it. Like, did you prefer a talkie?

[James Palmer]

A talkie?

[Chase Daniel]

No, no. A. A talkie talkie. No, I wanted. Look, and, and here's the thing about Kataki that people don't understand is that like in college in general, when Caleb played, they didn't have the ear to. From the quarterback to the, to the play caller. So like there was all signals. This is the first time where in the second time he's, he's hearing Ben Johnson over and over. They're trying to get on the same wavelength. And you know, a play at USC could be called black or yellow or. And here it's like green right slot nasty Z motion, fake size 37 Buster solid naked right X sting, Z spirit can it. With 53 Titan left. Like, these are like some play calls, right, that go into your ear. And so the more calm you are, the better off. I think just the whole operation is. And it looked. I mean, it looked great. They have 517 yards last night, 31 first downs. Like, that's hard to do in a preseason game, right?

[James Palmer]

It's balling.

[Chase Daniel]

It's. Yeah. Tyson Basic, too. They got everything working.

[Diana Rossini]

James. It's such a dorky analogy, but I wonder how much, how similar it is for people in TV when we have an earpiece in and our producers are talking to us while we're trying to give a thing thought. Yeah, I think that's one of the hardest things to do when you start. But then, you know, you're two or three years in TV and then you're like, ah, that's it.

[James Palmer]

You just second used to do it.

[Chase Daniel]

The TV thing's harder because the thing. Hey, Diana, the thing cuts off at 15 seconds.

[Diana Rossini]

Oh, that's a good point.

[James Palmer]

They don't talk during the play collect.

[Chase Daniel]

So you can just like.

[James Palmer]

Oh, shut up. Well, Diane and I were getting talked to during the play all the time. And.

[Diana Rossini]

Let'S wrap it up. Send it over down to CHEESE now. See how hard that is?

[James Palmer]

Very difficult. Very difficult to concentrate while that's happening. Last one on Caleb. And I have to ask you both this. I believe there's a head coach, new head coach and quarterback combination, two of them that have the most pressure on them in the league. Who has more pressure to succeed this year? Trevor Lawrence and Liam Cohen or Ben Johnson and Caleb Williams?

[Chase Daniel]

Oh, this one's easy.

[James Palmer]

I don't think you have it, Coach Chase.

[Chase Daniel]

It's easy. No, no, don't. If you don't think it's easy. I want to hear your thought process.

[Diana Rossini]

Just me.

[James Palmer]

It's easy.

[Diana Rossini]

I actually think it's Liam Cohen and Trevor Lawrence.

[Chase Daniel]

It's not even close.

[Diana Rossini]

I. I think absolutely. We have so much belief and confidence already in what Caleb and Ben Johnson have done because what Ben has done prior, not taking it away from Lamb. I just think the way they've gone about it to get Ben Johnson there, but also we. Trevor has the experience. He's not. He's been. I mean, granted, he's going to be in a new system this year, but we still don't even know. And I know it's such a simple way of putting it. Is he good? Is he good?

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

And I. And I think that's where the pressure is going to be on for them to figure out if he's the guy. Not so much on Liam, but more on Trevor.

[Chase Daniel]

No, it's, it's, it's got to be Trevor for exactly the reasons you said. He's been in the league for a really long time. Is he going on year five? Right. Year four, five, six, whatever it is, he hasn't lived up to expectations and there's been stretches of greatness and there's been stretches of not good. And I say greatness. They were like 8 and 1 at one point. Right? They were rolling or something. I don't know. It was a long time ago. I put that out of my mind because we don't talk about the Jaguars, although I love the Jaguars. I think that this play caller is sort of Trevor Lawrence's last lifeline in terms of if you can't get it with Liam Cohen, who has done amazing things with like Baker Mayfield, who has turned his career around. Like, I just don't know. I don't think they're gonna do a Mike Tannenbaum like he said this morning, and draft a quarterback next year if Trevor Lawrence isn't good because they paid him a lot of money. But I do think you have to start having conversations if this season doesn't go right. Like, all right, can we for sure build the next 10 years around Trevor Lawrence?

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. Maybe they should name the stadium after him.

[James Palmer]

Wow. Well, listen, this probably is. Chase, you mentioned it. Maybe a two year situation here for Liam Cohen and Trevor Lawrence. We'll see how they put it all together. So let's change gears here. Diana to Trey Hendrickson. You have been all over this from the jump from when he was posting pictures of himself leaving Cincinnati and going to Jacksonville. And you're talking to him while he's in Jacksonville. And we're trying to get all the scoops here on Scoop City from you. It takes another turn yesterday when you report that the Bengals have been kind of always. I want you to create some clarity here, kind of having an eye out with trade suitors. What has been the latest with Trey Hendrickson and will he be staying in Cincinnati as they're almost at an impasse in terms of this contract?

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. Well, let's not forget that Trey asked for a trade. So if a player asks for a trade, doesn't that allow the team to then pick up the phone and make calls? You know, just to clarify. Right. It's like they're. If Trey doesn't want to be there in their mind, then they're going to go see what kind of deal that they can get. So I think both parties are just trying to get this moving along. And you can usually tell how motivated a team is to move a player based on their ability to move off what they're asking. And from what I understand, it's. It's pretty much consistently been the same, which is they're not only looking for a future first round pick, but they're also looking for a young defensive player. Right. And that doesn't necessarily mean what position. That's. It doesn't have to be a pass rusher. They. They have a lot of needs. I. I think when you think about Bangles without Trey, we're panicked nevertheless, with Trey, so they know they need that, you know, and I know there's some people out there going, well, what they're looking for, they have right there, there's Trey. The problem is obviously the age. He wants that guaranteed money. That's been the sticking point with that. He wants those two years guaranteed. But. But as of now, nothing has changed between Trey Hendrickson's camp and the Cincinnati Bengals in terms of those discussions. It's. It is exactly where they left it, which is they don't want to give them that second year guaranteed money. Now, I can tell you, lots of teams have checked in.

[James Palmer]

Okay.

[Diana Rossini]

Not even just in the West. For. For a while, it's kind of been known that this is what Cincy wants. So some teams that I spoke to yesterday, just circling back to see if maybe it was getting out there because something was heating up. Most of them are just saying the same thing, which is it's just gonna cost them too much because of the timing of where we are on the calendar. Right. Because not only you're gonna have to give up this draft capital, but you have to pay them, so you're gonna have to do a whole new contract. And most teams have spent a lot of their money.

[James Palmer]

Mm. Yeah. It's true. This time of year, Chase, you usually don't get maximum value in these situations. Maybe the Cleo Mac trade, it did have maximum value, but around the draft, usually there's more. Whatever picks you get out of this, you can't use for this season, essentially. Right. They're going to help you in the following year. And you're right, money has been spent. Diana's exactly right. When you're sitting in Joe Burrow's seat, Chase.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah.

[James Palmer]

What does this do for you when you really have in your head super bowl aspirations, a dominant offense, and you probably believe you can't get there without Trey Hendrickson? When you have 36 sacks as a team last year and Trey Hendrickson had 17 and a half.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah. The fact that we're talking about trading their best defensive player when their worst unit was their defense last year, like, what? Like, seriously, Bengals, what. What are we doing? Like, I get. It's a business. Pay the man two years guaranteed. Move on with your life. He's old. I get. It's not only what he does on the field. Right. You're trading the leading pass rusher in terms of sacks in the NFL. You're trying to trade them like. Like you need help defensively. I get you on other defensive players and stuff like that. If you can't get to the quarterback, I mean, I don't know. It's just. It's hard to wrap my head around because I've always thought. Because Joe Burrow even said he's gotten everything he's wanted. The last piece of this pie is Trey Hendrickson. Like, just. Just do it.

[James Palmer]

Just.

[Chase Daniel]

Just sign him. Just do it. Check.

[Diana Rossini]

I talked to Trey.

[James Palmer]

It's hard to understand what. Whoa, whoa.

[Diana Rossini]

Oh, no. I mean, look, Trey consistently says the same thing, which is, he wants to be a Bengal, he wants to be in Cincinnati, but he wants to be treated fairly. And they're hoping it shakes out. But. But I think from their perspective, it's like, well, if the Bengals are, let's just say, open to trading them, if they're picking up the phone, then their. Their price is really high, but then they also don't want to pay him. So something's got to give at some point. And the closer we get to the start of the season, I think we're there, right, James? Like, don't you think we're at this point now where. Yeah, stuff has to get done with the season just around the corner.

[James Palmer]

Elliott Wolf, the executive VP of player personnel for the New England Patriots, spoke on Monday morning to reporters and had this to say. Willing to give up in a trade, a second, or maybe even a first round pick to make your team better this year?

[Chase Daniel]

Sure.

[James Palmer]

Yep. Just.

[Chase Daniel]

Just doing what's best for the team. If there's a player out there that.

[James Palmer]

We feel like can help us, then, you know, and it costs that, then we would consider doing that. Oh, my man. Mike Giardi right in there, too. I thought he was going to start taking some questions, but he didn't. He was just, I guess, holding his recorder. Diana, they have more cap space than anybody else in football. Could you see New England being interested in Trey Hendrickson?

[Diana Rossini]

That was very Revealing, right?

[Chase Daniel]

Really?

[Diana Rossini]

You didn't have that react? I mean, he wasn't like, enthusiastic or loud about it, but I very rarely see a general manager be like, yeah, yeah, we'll. We'll trade first rounders.

[James Palmer]

No, it's Diana. Isn't it usually just, well, listen, we're always evaluating everything to make our team better. You don't answer that. We'll give up a first round pick, but you just go, we're always looking to better our team and we'll look at every option.

[Diana Rossini]

I mean, James, you've been doing this way too long because that is beautiful. I mean, you should coach up.

[James Palmer]

I don't get any interviews. I should.

[Diana Rossini]

Because that is the exact way it goes, especially in New England. Like, right, Just say, happy with the guys that we have on this roster. Yeah, right. Like, isn't that the line?

[James Palmer]

Watch your back, Jerry. Madeline, are there any teams that would be interested here?

[Diana Rossini]

Let's dissect this. Do we think that the Patriots are going to actively be involved in trying to trade for Trey hendrickson for Terry McLaurin for Micah Parsons?

[Chase Daniel]

I. I mean, they ain't trained for Micah. Come on.

[Diana Rossini]

They're. They're all gonna monitor it. I have a hard time believing that Patriots are gonna seriously get in on this.

[Chase Daniel]

They could use a receiver.

[James Palmer]

They could use a receiver. I also look at. I also look at Terry and I look at Trey and go. Football characters through the roof. Personal characters through the roof. Obviously a dog on the field. They check every box that Mike Vrabel is trying to do in terms of building the culture in New England. You saw how they really reached during free agency at players like Chris Godwin that check all the boxes I just mentioned. Like, you have a quarterback on a rookie contract. You have all of the. You had a pretty good draft class, I think, in some expensive positions, possibly like a left tackle. I don't know.

[Diana Rossini]

Look, with them in Minnesota and of course, conversations about the big stories in the NFL come up. And I didn't talk to anyone who was like, tell me more about Terry. Tell me more. You know, I didn't get a sense that these guys are on the hunt to try to make some big move.

[Chase Daniel]

I feel like most teams are pretty set.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, I think the team chase. Do you think the teams that.

[Chase Daniel]

That.

[James Palmer]

And I always equate this to baseball. Like, you don't go out and get a high price closer if you're not a contender. You don't get a high price closer of games like a pass rusher. If you're Not a contender. Right?

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah. Here's the other thing too. Like there's, there's like bottom of the barrel guys that get traded right before cut down and then there's like the huge like superstars. Like the Cleo Mac one you said. Right. It. It. You don't see it very often during this time because it is very difficult to come in right away, regardless of position and learn a new scheme and play right away. Like Cleo Mac could do it because he's defensive in like he's a rusher. Like you could do that. Trey Hendrickson, I feel like Scary Terry would have a. Well, anyone would have a difficult time learning a new offense and getting ready to play in, oh, you know, 20 days. It's just, it's going. It would be difficult to do that. So that's why you don't see many trades like this. Although I think it'd be fun if they.

[Diana Rossini]

That'd be fun. Yeah.

[James Palmer]

That's a good term. But nobody's asking Diana about these players, so I'm not going to read too highly into it. We got a lot more coming up here on Scoop City. What is happening with Scary Terry? When can we see him actually on the field? Is it today? We'll see. We'll find out. Also, the Browns have a huge quarterback decision or is it really pretty much the obvious? Much more of that coming up on Scoop City.

[Diana Rossini]

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[James Palmer]

The app download today. Welcome back to Scoop City. I'm James Palmer with Senior NFL Insider. Diana Rossini. I don't want to forget the senior. I don't want to make you feel old, Diana, but you earned the senior title. Chase Daniel, our regular, you know, quarterback guru here on Scoop City. Everybody's with us on a Monday. And we want to talk about Terry McLaurin because we do it it regularly until the deals get done. We'll see if a deal gets done. But what did happen is he was activated off the PUP list from his ankle injury. And Diana, movement in terms of his status on the roster, does that mean that we have any movement in terms of the status of his maybe potential future contract? Air quotes.

[Diana Rossini]

Sometimes it's easier to just read directly from a source. So this is source close.

[Chase Daniel]

Oh, I love when she does this.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, do it.

[Diana Rossini]

Nothing significant has changed.

[Chase Daniel]

Oh, that's boring.

[Diana Rossini]

So there you go. And when you, when that, when that happens, that usually tells you that both sides also haven't changed their positions either. Right. So you have the Washington commanders who are going to continually tell McLaren's camp that he's 30 years old, that he can't get paid like a receiver that is in his late 20s, and you're to have the McLaurin camp who says, well, you need him based on what we've seen in camp and use that as a leverage play to try to get him over that 30 million per year, you know, goal of theirs, which I still think that's gonna be a really, really, really big challenge for them.

[James Palmer]

Interesting. Diane, who am I? I just received a text message from Doug Peterson. It states, sorry, my man Sal Pal. My man Sal Pal on the sideline doing it forever. Text me this morning. We're gonna play hard. Okay? Listen, speaking of coaches, Cliff Kingsbury had this to say about getting Terry McLaurin and the importance of it, having him and their number one receiver back on the playing field. I mean, there hasn't been a ton of contact with him. You know, he's been here, but he's been working with the trainers. So until he gets back on the grass, that's when we'll start building that back up. You know, that's one of those deals. It's just time on task. And luckily, what they had last year to build a lot of rapport and chemistry, and Terry understands our system going into a year too, so that should expedite the process. But to me, it's time on task. Together on the grass is really the only way that you can continue to build.

[Chase Daniel]

He looks tired.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, he looks exhausted. Very tired. Well, very tired because he's dealing without Terry McLaurin in his offense. And from everything I've been told, it hasn't looked outstanding without Scary Terry out there. Chase, you've spent 14 years at training camps wishing for starters to get hurt. You told us earlier in the show a lie. What can. Two questions. Can Terry, as he comes off the PUP list with his ankle injury now, can he legitimately be ready for a full slate of snaps week one?

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah, I, I think if he comes off now and starts practicing like today, he probably could. Yeah, I. I do think so. I don't. I don't know if he's gonna play every single snap. I don't know if he's gonna play 70 staffs, but 50, 45 snaps, that's absolutely into it. It depends on how hard he's been working off the field. And people are like, oh, what about the timing? I think Jaden and Scary Terry have had plenty of timing down like that. That's the one thing I worry about. It's not a new offense. Exactly what Cliff said. I thought it was interesting in the, in the Cliff sound bite too. And I want to make sure everyone understands this. Like, a lot of times when we've had these hold ins or holdouts on teams I've been a part of the offensive coordinator and the defensive coordinator, they don't know anything. Like, like, like most of the teams I've been around, like, the only thing that only person that knows is GM and head coach, and they keep it to themselves about what's out. He genuinely sounds like he's like, dude, until he gets back on the grass, it's literally not up to me. I. I have no. Yeah, it's just. It's crazy for some people to understand it, but the communication on most teams I've been on, and I would ask the offensive coordinator, like, hey, he's like, dude, I haven't heard anything. So they really don't know anything in terms of, like, how it's going. But back to scary. I think it's one of those things where he is Such a great person both on and off the field. He's given you everything. He's been around when you know, the commanders weren't doing so hot. He's stuck around. He's played it out. He's played through injury. He's done all this stuff. It's not hard to pay a guy what he's worth. I think he's worth the 30 million. And I'm always going to be pro player and Diana's gonna, you know, come back from the other side. And I get it, the age, stuff like that. But I, I just like he means so he's their number one receiver, James, like you, you pay him.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, yeah, but look, by the way, I am pro player as well. I'm just gonna give the other side.

[Chase Daniel]

Just pro player personnel just to balance it out.

[James Palmer]

Big Elliott Wolf fan, you said this.

[Diana Rossini]

On the show a million times. In this league, you don't get paid for what you do. And that's what makes it so hard, wouldn't you think?

[James Palmer]

Diana has the argument and maybe you can tell Terry's agent this, like past production and what he's done with 11 different quarterbacks who are all not even close to as talented as Jaden Daniels, actually shows you what his future production could be. When you see him play with a real quarterback, when you see how productive he was with lesser quarterbacks, couldn't they use that in their negotiations? Now I'm being an agent.

[Diana Rossini]

I think that's on Buddy Baker. The agents like fourth PowerPoint slide.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, I would love if agents did PowerPoint. And now if you could see the chat, the graph here and Terry's production has gone up. Next slide, please. If we.

[Diana Rossini]

We should do scoop court, because I.

[Chase Daniel]

Bet you we've done it before.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, we've done before. I bet you we could lay out a pretty fair case where Buddy Baker has every right to go as hard as he's going to get. I think he does 30, by the way. I've had this conversation. A lot of people around, like just watching this, just to pick everyone's brains of. Like, how do you see this? And it is funny, like every decision maker in football kind of always falls between that 27 and 28. Right? I, I have a hard time finding anyone who's given me the number that I think the McLaurin camp is giving. Not saying they shouldn't go for it. It's just, I think most teams are looking at it through the lens of Adam Peters right now, which is the age is. It's. It's Just hard, because we haven't seen that many wide receivers after the age of 30 be productive at a high level that they.

[Chase Daniel]

Is it all about APY or is it more guaranteed for them?

[Diana Rossini]

Both. It's both. But. But the APY is the sexy part of all this, right? Because.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah, but it doesn't matter unless it's guaranteed.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, it's. Diana, the other question I have for you with this is in Adam Peters. His name keeps coming up. As you know, he's a tough negotiator and this stuff. I almost feel like he is trying to establish how the Commanders are going to do business moving forward.

[Chase Daniel]

Forward.

[James Palmer]

And using this contract as part of that. Is that something you're kind of hearing through the grapevine of, like, he does need to establish how the Commanders will do business moving forward?

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, but you could also counter that with.

[Chase Daniel]

He's the number one receiver.

[James Palmer]

I can sit here for an hour and go, man, I really think that. Why are they not paying Terry? And then I sit here and go, now I understand. Now I understand. Now Adam will get on his PowerPoint and go. Here is the data for receivers over 30 and. And the inverse angle of said trajectory.

[Diana Rossini]

Now, next slide off pup to try to get him out to practice. I'd ask some people in Washington if this was similar to the James Cook situation, because, remember, in Buffalo, they, James, go out there and practice, and then we'll do your deal and everyone will get this done. And James went and practiced that day. I think we did a show. James practiced that day. The deal was done the next morning. From what I understand, that was not the same. That was not the situation where they're like, okay, that injuries healed, your ankle's walking. Now get on the field. And then. And then we can do this. That I do believe this is different. Yet in the same breath, somebody there told me that they've noticed Terry has seemed a little happier the last few days.

[James Palmer]

Everyone's just reading the body language, you.

[Diana Rossini]

Know, just, you know, and that. That person obviously is part of the Commander's organization that shared that of just observing a player.

[Chase Daniel]

Let's settle on 29. Call it a deal. Get your best receiver out there.

[James Palmer]

All right? Chase got it done. Perfect.

[Chase Daniel]

It's not that hard, guys.

[Diana Rossini]

I don't know. Don't you think? Buddy sitting there going, it's got to be 3.

[James Palmer]

There's numbers, right, Diana? There's numbers that agents want. They just want it out there that I got him 30. However, the numbers are within the contract. I want to make sure that he's in the 30s. I don't. Who knows? Listen, Chase already got the contract done, so let's move on. And no surprise here. The Cleveland Browns are laming Joe Flacco their starter for week one. And remember, this week, in terms of the preseason is always kind of the dress rehearsal, right? It's when you want to simulate kind of what a normal week is in terms of how you're going to operate whether your starters play in the third preseason game or not. That's how the practice week usually goes. And that's why a lot of teams make their decision on their starter. The Browns have made theirs. And this is logical, obvious, no brainer. Which one do you want to go with? Obvious.

[Diana Rossini]

Okay, obvious is good because I do think there were some people wondering if maybe they were going to be spicy and try something different. That is not Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Berry's personality. If you've ever met them. They are not spicy people. And I say that as a compliment. Right. So there's no question that Joe Flacco is going to be the guy. Even just based on what they did this training camp and how they. As you know, essentially we're trying to see what they had as the backup by giving them a lot of reps because they know what Joe can do. Joe's been in Kevin Stefanski system. He's been in the league for over 20 years. He. Almost 20 years at this point. He, you know, Stefanski has tons of confidence that Flacco can, can at least get this offense humming just based on. On that experience. So. So this makes a lot of sense. And I just think the next question really is going to be, what are they going to do with the rest of the quarterbacks on this roster?

[James Palmer]

Yeah, and I'll say this really quickly. Shador Sanders never took a single rep with the first team. So that, you know, chances of landing as a 5th round pick with zero first team reps is pretty difficult to get that starter job. Dylan Gabriel, I think got like maybe a couple. I'm not even sure if he did, but more, way more twos than say, Shore Sanders did. So this just made a whole lot of sense.

[Chase Daniel]

My question is that's. That's great. I'm glad it's Flacco. Are they keeping four on the roster? And between Dylan and Shador and Kenny, is Kenny there? Who's the backup? Who's the three? That is the most interesting thing.

[Diana Rossini]

I, I agree and I don't know if those answers are there just yet. I think they are waiting to see on some injury fronts. But I'm with you on the four quarterbacks. They're. I have a hard to do that. That's what they're going to wind up doing.

[James Palmer]

Could they, Diana, be doing this through the rest of camp, through the start of the season through a couple of weeks to see if Kenny Pickett has value in a place like say New Orleans or somewhere to where the quarterback room still needs maybe an added player? Like is it. Is it essentially you're keeping Kenny because there's value in having quarterbacks in this.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. There's definitely arguments to be made that you keep him. Just knowing that there's going to be teams desperate here, especially in the early part of the season if these quarterbacks are struggling. We keep saying New Orleans. Chase, I know we talked a little bit offline about the same situation at quarterback. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a team they've said they're not doing that right.

[Chase Daniel]

Well, Kenny and Kellen go back and right. They knows the offense. They have a conundrum. That's a great word in that quarterback room. Like what are they doing?

[Diana Rossini]

I don't think you use that right, though. I don't think it's a conundrum.

[James Palmer]

No.

[Diana Rossini]

I think you have quarterback questions.

[Chase Daniel]

No.

[James Palmer]

You could say it's a sense. But like they did put themselves in this position by the way they went about creating this quarterback room. Diana, I was texting with a GM last night who was like, I feel so bad for Kevin Stefanski. The guy is a great coach and it's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't. And what's going on in this entire kind of situation. I want to spin it to the two rookies because our buddy Mike Silver had in his. His recent piece on the Athletic that teams called about possibly trading for Dylan Gabriel after they drafted Shador Sanders and the Browns would not do it.

[Chase Daniel]

Chase, hold on, hold on. Can we just hold on.

[James Palmer]

Okay.

[Chase Daniel]

Diana. Conundrum is the perfect word to use in that. A confusing and difficult problem or question. Question. I could not have used it any better. Stop making me second guess.

[Diana Rossini]

Good job. First time you ever got that right. But good job.

[Chase Daniel]

I know, I know. That's why I wanted to stop everything.

[Diana Rossini]

All right. Put people.

[James Palmer]

It was worthy of a stop. It was worthy of a stop. If we could also Mac maybe have a graphic come up with the definition of conundrum just over Chase while would be perfect to get to get that taken care of with this conundrum. Chase.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah.

[James Palmer]

How did you think Dylan Gabriel played in the preseason game?

[Chase Daniel]

So I thought he played. I thought he played really well. Except for two snaps. The two snaps were the pick six, Right? Right. And both snaps were turnovers. And not only were both snaps turnovers, they also led to 13 Eagles points. So not only did you turn the football over, but you throw a pick six. Right. And, and I go back and forth on the handoff. I think that the path of the back was correct and I think Dylan Gabriel took too skinny of a path, so I'm going to put that on him as well. When you have two turnovers like that and you play really good other than that, you can't forget about the turn. The turnovers stand out. Right. And I think that he was really decisive in throwing the football. Now it's the first game, I get that. But you look at Shador and you look what he was able to do. I mean, it's, it's, it's obviously Shador played better in that one game, but that's not what they are just looking at, is it Dylan or Shador? They're looking at the sample size since you came, got drafted. Right. What did you do in, in training camp? What did you do in OTAs? How do you handle stuff on and off the field, all that stuff. So I thought Dylan played pretty well. I mean, it's, it's preseason. You want to make mistakes. I thought Chador played better when he played. Now, I don't know, the injury stuff and how that happens, it all plays into it. But it was, it was an interesting, it was an interesting game by Dylan Gabriel.

[James Palmer]

Diana, I know we're all talking about who's going to be the starter, and I think everybody believes it's Joe Flacco. Is the real competition then between Dylan Gabriel and Shador Sanders about going, how can I get a leg up by week one to. If something happens to Joe Flacco? I'm the first person that Kevin Stabanski is looking at.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, it's 100% a competition there. I.

[James Palmer]

That's where it's at right now there, though.

[Diana Rossini]

That's like a good healthy one. And I don't think it's really easy if you're Shador Sanders or if you're Dylan Gabriel. I mean, think about what Dylan Gabriel is up against too, in terms of so many of the fans that want to see Shador Sanders.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

Get this job.

[James Palmer]

The entertainer, Shador Sanders.

[Diana Rossini]

And what would you make of that? I know there's a lot of like kickback and feedback on it. I mean, do you really think what he said about the game not being about entertainers, but competitors? He was really talking about the media.

[James Palmer]

Yes. You think later in the show.

[Diana Rossini]

I don't know him, so I didn't.

[James Palmer]

Know how later in the show. And this is a tease, we're going to talk about what really grinds our gears because we had Mike Brable talking to you, Diana, about what really bothers him and oh, man, was he so relatable. And we're going to close out the show talking about the things that really annoy us. This is something that really annoys me and I gotta say it right now. The context that it was taken out of and then the people retweeting that it was taken out. Like people tweeting out on Saturday to stir the pot and then on Sunday night tweeting out. Dylan Gabriel clarified his comments. He didn't have to clarify his comments. He's clarifying his comments because of your tweets and the way you took it out of context. He doesn't have to clarify anything. And then you're tweeting both of them out. It drives me nuts. When you could just had some sort of journalistic integrity. Listen to a DD Kinkabala's question to him, which was very clear. And if you took any time to know Dylan Gabriel as a person and the reason he was drafted in the third round is because of his character, his football character, the type of person he is, this was very clear cut. And then it's a story because Shadore Sanders is involved in it. Let's just be clear. That's the other guy that everybody wanted to create a story.

[Diana Rossini]

I really can't wait to get. Grind your gears because this grinds my gears last night. Who just loses. Like, you guys get so far about stuff. So this is good. I can't wait to do it.

[James Palmer]

Last night. I was bowling with my family last night and I was about to retweet somebody and my wife was like, put your phone down, take 30 minutes. And then if you still want to tweet it, tweet it. I did not, but I was upset about. This is gone. What's up? I'm at these. We got summer bowling passes. So we go about three days a week.

[Chase Daniel]

What are you, 175, 150.

[James Palmer]

I'm in that 175. I'd like to be 176 is my high this summer. I'm more in the lowest.

[Chase Daniel]

So I was right on.

[James Palmer]

Yeah. 140 is 150.

[Chase Daniel]

I was right on.

[Diana Rossini]

Some bowling trend going on. You bowl three times a week.

[Chase Daniel]

Listen, that's a lot.

[James Palmer]

I know nobody wants to hear this, but Lucky Strike in our neighborhood, for $50 a person, you get two free games and free shoes every day for the whole summer. So you go in and spend no money.

[Chase Daniel]

Are we sponsored by Lucky Stripe? We should be like a read.

[James Palmer]

We should be. Come on down to Lucky Stripe. I'm a little upset because I did hear their lanes are shorter than actual lanes. All right, which really bothers me with my spin. Okay, we got one more block to come up here on Scoop City and we're gonna talk about what really grinds our gears. But we're also gonna get a chance to see and hear some of these unbelievable interviews that Diane Rossini did with Koc. Mike Frable, who else? We got J.J. mcCarthy. We got him on there. We got Drake May. We got all sorts of names right after this.

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[James Palmer]

Back on Scoop City. Talking about what really grinds our gears now. We already started that in the B block. We're in the C block here, guys. We're closing things out. And Diana Rossini, our senior NFL travel expert, was all over the map during training camp. Her last stop, Minnesota. And it was a delightful selection because she was there for a joint practice with the Patriots and the Vikings. And obviously, everybody wants to know about J.J. mcCarthy and what he's going to do under the tutelage of KOC Kevin o'. Connell. Here's what Diana and Kevin chatted about.

[Kevin O'Connell]

You know, as I've told, you know, JJ and I've told our offensive unit, look, it should be, it should be a good thing that the expectations for not only a quarterback playing for the first time, but the group itself, I.

[James Palmer]

Want them to be high.

[Kevin O'Connell]

We have high, you know, goals and aspirations as a team, and our offense will certainly play a part of that. But, yes, I'm, I'm totally. I've been through this, you know. You know, in certain capacities, both, you know, as a young quarterback, getting the ball in your hands and trying to, you know, live up to either your role as a backup or playing behind maybe the best quarterback that ever lived and taking the reps right after that guy, and the standards are the way they are. So as a coach, I've seen it in every, you know, kind of every capacity of being along that journey with the player. I. I expect there to be reactions, positive Negative. Our goal is to win football games, and JJ's going to play a role in that. A team's going to play a role in that. I will most, you know, maybe more so than anyone, play a role in that with what we ask our team to do, what we ask our offense to do, what we ask JJ to do. But all with an understanding of the foundation of developing quarterbacks is not a overnight thing. It's not a flash reaction thing. I think that's what gets organizations in trouble sometimes. When you want so badly, we all want so badly for it to look a certain way and be a certain way from the very beginning. But what are you doing as a coach, as an organization, as a teammate, as one of 11 in the huddle with said player to make sure that we're doing everything in our power to give the best possible chance to have success. And then when adversity hits, how are we going to respond to that? I think that was a great learning moment for our team last year. Adversity hit right now. I can remember sitting with you in.

[Diana Rossini]

Cleveland and it was that day that it all came out.

[Kevin O'Connell]

It was that day and the expectations of this team might have the first pick in the draft. This team might win six games. This team should be in the cellar of the NFC North. And it was a great example of ignoring a lot of that. It's great, you know, it's great. There's only so many, you know, speeches you can give your team where you use that, if you use that every single day, you'll have no substance. You'll build nothing that can sustain. And when you win 14 games, that's, that's fantastic. I was proud of what we did, but we're trying to build a team that's worthy of the moment in the end. And in the end may be punching your ticket and trying to play the best four quarters that you possibly can.

[James Palmer]

Does anybody else just want to play for Kevin o'? Connell?

[Chase Daniel]

That was my one takeaway from the whole. He said so much coach speak, but, like, I was so engaged, like I was playing again. He is so freaking good at understanding where a team wants to go, how to get him there. It's. It's not only because he played quarterback, but from who he learned under. And my whole, my whole thing is like, Man, JJ McCarthy is so freaking lucky to have him as his head coach because there are so many head coaches in this league that do not get it, that do not understand it, that do not understand what it takes to be successful. It's not a one day process of developing quarterbacks. Like he said. That's just the one thing. I'm like, man, he is extremely lucky to go from Harbaugh to McCarthy or to, to to Koc. Like it's just, it's unbelievable.

[Diana Rossini]

And even Kevin's patience with his quarterback, right. Like the fact that he understands that this is a process. But I don't know Chase, you're being really nice for a guy that wants your job. In the full interview he started off saying because we're just talking about how funny he went into broadcasting, he's like, oh, you know, maybe looking back that, you know, I could have been on Scoop City. Like I'm like I, I got chased bud. Like I'm not for host here.

[James Palmer]

He would have taken my job easy, easy. He's way better than me.

[Diana Rossini]

He wasn't what can what can't he a better backup.

[James Palmer]

What no what can't can of Kevin o' Connell do. I saw the pipes there, Diane. It looks like he's in tremendous shape.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah.

[James Palmer]

Speaks eloquently. He's an unbelievable coach. It's, it's Alice, it is wild just to see that there's like across the league, no panic on how JJ McCarthy's quote unquote Rookie year is going to be after not even getting really reps during his real rookie year. It wasn't like he even sat and ran a scout team and that he didn't do any of that because he was hurt the entire time. And there's just seems to be no panic about how this is going to go and it's because of Kevin o' Connell also. Let's go to Mike Vrabel. You sat down with him as well, Diana and you guys talked about his quarterback in Drake Met.

[Mike Vrabel]

We can have different personalities. We have to have one mentality and that mentality is about the team and about our identity. And when he does things, it makes everybody else think, ok, that's acceptable. We go and we celebrate. Any play that we make, we want to celebrate as a team and hopefully we score, we go and celebrate and it's hard to score in this league.

[James Palmer]

It's tough.

[Mike Vrabel]

And when we do, we want to be able to celebrate and not just think, oh, you know, we just when the quarterback does things, everybody else says, oh, that must be the right thing to do.

[Diana Rossini]

You're not one to do the predictions thing, but what are the expectations? Because I feel like the outside world and the national media is looking at you guys and they think, okay, they've Got my grable. They're going to be good. But what. What's the truth?

[Mike Vrabel]

Yeah, that's never going to be the case. I mean, we have to work and we have to compete. And I've said this multiple times in this league. We're never going to accept losing, but we have to embrace moving on. Whether we win or whether we lose, we have to continue to move ahead and figure out what the next challenge is. And so whatever the predictions are or the expectation, the expectations are that we compete, that we try to be good enough to take advantage of bad football, that we're not beating ourselves, that there is a rhythm to what we're doing, that there's a flow to what we do, and that the players, again, they're the ones that establish the identity. I can talk about it until I'm blue in the face. They are the ones that. It's their identity. And hopefully once you build something, you protect it because it's yours. You build a home, you protect it. You build a family, you protect, protect it. And that's what we talk about.

[Diana Rossini]

He gave away the identity of the team by saying it at the end, right? Like, compete, take advantage of bad football. It's exactly what they're trying to do and what they're trying to build. It's. You know, we saw a lot of that in Tennessee, and they're very clear and decisive about what they want to be in the type of football team they want to be. And Drake is. Is growing, right? Like, even though he's in his second year, this is. This. I think this is just a whole new experience. I love talking to drake about Josh McDaniel. Just like, that dynamic, that relationship. They live next door. Well, they live, like, close to each other on the same street.

[James Palmer]

That's valuable.

[Diana Rossini]

I'm like, do you. Do you, like, stop by each other's house? Do you, like, give each other a hard time about the garbage cans, which. That grinds my gears.

[James Palmer]

Garbage cans.

[Diana Rossini]

Well, sometimes in the morning I walk around the neighborhood and I'm just like the garbage can picker upper because the garbage cans are just, like, thrown all over.

[James Palmer]

Do you wear gloves?

[Chase Daniel]

He hates it, too.

[James Palmer]

Do you wear gloves? I would.

[Diana Rossini]

Nope. But I don't wash my hands either.

[Chase Daniel]

Wow.

[James Palmer]

Chase, anything on Variable before we get to another grind our gear situation here?

[Chase Daniel]

No. Diana said roll.

[James Palmer]

I think so. I do think he's being like, he. He knows this is going to take a minute, but he also isn't going to accept anything but the needle moving up.

[Chase Daniel]

It's exactly what they needed.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly what they needed. And Diana, you also had a hilarious conversation that's been everywhere, and we wanted to put it on here with Mike Vrabel about what really gets him going.

[Diana Rossini]

Is there something outside football that drives Mike Vrae book nuts?

[Mike Vrabel]

Yes. People, when they leave their carts in the middle of the parking lot and they don't take them back to the cart return. And then the people, people at Starbucks that park in a handicap spot and go in there and try to get their order from the mobile order who are in handicap. By no means handicapped. No. I look in the dash, I look and then I wait. And then I. Then I just. I approach them, wait, and I say things like, why did you park here? One person would be like, with doordash. I'm like, I don't care. That's unacceptable. And then there's the mom that's going to yoga and she's rushing because she's late. And I'm like, this is ridiculous.

[Diana Rossini]

If there was a way you could actually punish them, what would you do?

[Mike Vrabel]

I wish I had a boot. That's a great idea. I would boot their car just like a mobile boot and said, I parked in a handicap spot and I'm not handicapped.

[James Palmer]

So good. So good. So good.

[Chase Daniel]

Oh, my.

[Diana Rossini]

You can hear in the interview him say too, that that's what he was doing when he didn't have, like a full time head coaching job. He was just sitting in parking lots yelling at people, which imagine just like. Like you make that stupid mistake. Mistake of parking in a handicap spot.

[James Palmer]

Because I was thinking the same thing.

[Diana Rossini]

I've never done that. No, I have never. I've pulled in to handicap spots before that.

[James Palmer]

I stayed in the car.

[Chase Daniel]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

I didn't know. I'm like, oh, no. And then I pull. You know, I get out. Like, I freak out over that. I just think it's the worst thing you could do. It's.

[James Palmer]

Do you tell me right now what job listening to that would Mike Vrabel absolutely crush if he wasn't a football coach? Mall cop, Just a cop. Like, he is right and wrong. Like, this is right, this is wrong. He would be an unbelievable police officer. Like, he would just. I can see him confronting people, being like, why would you do that? Like, you know you're not supposed to do that. What do you think?

[Chase Daniel]

Oh, I like what grinds my gears, though, is exactly what Brave said. And he.

[Kevin O'Connell]

He did.

[Chase Daniel]

He gave you specific examples. Mine is laziness. Just pure laziness. Whether it's like to my kid who, like, doesn't take the trash all the way out, he just takes it outside. Or like, to other people, like, you don't. You don't finish. Like, to my kids, I'm coaching flag football again this year, like fourth year. Like, if I tell them at the beginning of practice and we do this, we run a lot. We try to get them in good shape. Not run a lot, but, like, run laps. Special teams, I say, hey, run to the. Run to the concrete. Touch the concrete with your right hand and run back. The first time I did that, you know how many. You know how many kids did that? 1 out of 10. And it was not my son. And I was mad about it, and so I made them go run again. You know how many people do it now? All of them. All the kids do it now. It's like the small little things in life, like, just do it.

[James Palmer]

Yeah. Diana, you got something that gets you going outside of the trash cans?

[Diana Rossini]

I got a notebook full of them. Besides the trash cans behind the password Changes every two days with 17 letters and 45 exclamation points that you need to change it every time. And I can't remember them. My husband sticking with variables. Parking thing just drives by. Parking. Open parkins parking spaces. Like, why not take that one?

[James Palmer]

Do you kind of like, lean, like the car should be turning here and then you go right by.

[Diana Rossini]

Why? Oh, and I would say our biggest fights are usually when we're parking, like, right in that moment. Because there is a 98% chance Kevin is going to pick the parking spot furthest away from the entrance to the restaurant every time.

[James Palmer]

Well, thanks for tuning in for another edition of Scoob City. For Chase Daniel. For senior NFL insider, Diana Rossini, I'm James Paul. Remember, hit like hit subscribe. Please do it. Leave a comment. I'll comment on your comments. I will see you this week. Business software is expensive. And when you buy software from a lot of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing. Slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge. Everything from websites and sales to inventory and accounting, all linked in, talking to each other. Check out Odoo at O D o o dot com. That's o d o o dot com Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One Bank Guy.

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It's pretty much all he talks about.

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In a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply See capital1.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC if you travel to.

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Can join our wait list group and get insider perks. Open your [e-mail].