← Scoop City: Inside The NFL
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- [00:00]
Matt
We all have moments where we could have done better. Like cutting your own hair.
- [00:04]
James Palmer
Yikes.
- [00:04]
Matt
Or forgetting sunscreen so now you look like a tomato. Ouch. Could have done better. Same goes for where you invest. Level up and invest smarter with Schwab. Get market insights, education and human help when you need it. Learn more@schwab.com hi, this is Matt from
- [00:20]
Matt (P1 with Matt and Tommy)
P1 with Matt and Tommy and this episode is sponsored by ebay. The cars you'll find on ebay are just different. They come with a story that you can't wait to share. Like this 1973 Dodge Charger on ebay that tucked away in an Arizona Barn for over 40 years. Only 55,000 miles and somehow in great running order, it even has a rare sunroof. Suddenly a car that was hidden for decades is being delivered in just a few clicks. With ebay's secure purchase, all the paperwork handled. There are thousands of cars on ebay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers. And now with a new way to buy them. Ebay, things people love.
- [01:04]
Matt
After busy days and full schedules, it's the quiet moments that matter most. Pura's well Being collection brings intentional fragrance into your home, helping everyday life feel lighter, softer and more enjoyable. No routines, no overwhelm, just scent that supports how you want to feel. It's a simple way to reset right where you are. Explore the well Being collection now@pura.com sl moods.
- [01:35]
James Palmer
Probably a lot of coffee during this. 150. I would, I would assume I had
- [01:39]
Dan Popper
to start buying like the, the, you know, 10 calorie energy drinks like Celsius and Bloom and those things. Cuz I was, you know, on Cup 4 by 2pm and I was like this is not healthy.
- [01:49]
James Palmer
So this isn't good. Man, I got to stop, I got to stop getting those little energy drinks at the local truck stop for guys that stay up all night. Oh, welcome into Scoop City on Thursday. James Palmer here with you. Don't forget to like and subscribe because our offseason is off and running and that's what we're going to cover today. How about 150 free agents? How about over a month's worth of work for our own Dan Popper? The pop going out there and looking at all the film, breaking it down, ranking all of them. We're going to go through a couple of position groups. Whether that's the, the running back spot, whether in the trenches. Talk about Malik Willis. What's happening there in terms of the free agents. Also John Machada is going to join us and John and I are going to break down. What are the chances of Max Crosby landing with the Cowboys? Is George Pickens going to be there in Dallas in 2026? A lot to get to in terms of what the Cowboys are doing in building this roster and potentially making some major moves this offseason. But we start with the pop and myself because apparently I'm allowed to call him that. All right, Dan Popper joins us. And are we cool? Are we on a Dan situation? Should we go Daniel, like on the like print, like in the Athletic, or you and I in a Dan situation? Where are we at?
- [03:05]
Dan Popper
Whatever you want. Honestly, very few people actually call me Dan or Daniel. It's a lot of pop. I get a lot of pop from, from various people. But you really. I'm, I'm, I'm not a stickler about the name. It's really what, whatever.
- [03:18]
James Palmer
Take two. We're breaking down 150 free agents with pop right here on Scoop City. The work you put into this was incredible. And I'm not gonna lie, I'm kind of like a nerd about the whole like, format of it. Everybody go to the Athletic and go through all this work that Dan has done because it's been outstanding. But the drop down menus, Dan, like, you know, like the team position, you know, expand it all collapse. I'm like, I'm like nerding out for the last like 24 hours here on, on all of this before we.
- [03:47]
Dan Popper
I appreciate that.
- [03:48]
James Palmer
I truly. How long did this take you to get through this?
- [03:53]
Dan Popper
Yeah, I mean, well, I've been thinking about it for, for a year probably. Okay. You know, I sort of took on the project last, last February. So through the season it was kind of in the back of my mind after, you know, the chargers hired Mike McDaniel and kind of got through the coaching changes. That's when I really started to dive in. So it was a proper month of 12 to 16 hour days just, just watching film, trying to get through as many guys as I could. You know, there was a way I wanted to do it. It was going to take a lot of work, but I'm really happy that I did it that way because I felt like the end product was, was pretty comprehensive. I ended up doing scouting reports on like 180 to 200 guys to, to make the 150. And a lot of it was, you know, lower level guys trying to find those diamonds in the rough. You know, you get to a name that you don't Necessarily know, maybe didn't play that much. But you're trying to find traits in there that might be, you know, a situation where they could land in the 100 to 150 range. Trying to find those guys approaching it really like trying to at least like a personnel department would. Now, typically you'd have like, you know, a dozen pro scouts working on it and not one guy. So, you know, there were limit in that regard. But this is, I mean, you talk to me a bunch. This is what I love. Like, I love watching players learning about players. I love markets, I love contracts. I love trying to figure out where guys stack in certain positional markets. So this was like a cross section of everything that I love about the game, about the NFL, about what I like to do. And it was great to be able to take on this project. I will give a shout out, like you mentioned, the layout, I have to give a shout out to my editors, Jimmy Durkin and David Deschamp, who did all of that, all the, all the back end stuff, the editing, laying it all out. It looks awesome. I did all the front end work, but then I just sent it all to them and they made it look amazing. So I got to give both those guys a shout out.
- [05:43]
James Palmer
Oh, yeah. Well, all right, all of you guys crush this. So let's get into it with the work. And I got to start where everybody starts in the NFL, right? The quarterback position and Daniel Jones you have at number five. But obviously most people are under the assumption he will be returning to Indianapolis. That's everything that I've heard and have been told. We'll see in what capacity, whether he's tagged and they get a deal, whatever it is. So I want to drop down to number nine and Malik Willis because I find him to be one of the most fascinating pieces, maybe Dan, to this entire free agent landscape. What was your take watching Malik? And let's get into kind of what, what we could potentially see from him in 2026.
- [06:21]
Dan Popper
Yeah. So he got that start in week 17 against the Ravens, and I thought he played outstanding football. Like, I was super impressed coming away from that tape. Now, I figured he was going to be in the top 25, top 30, just based on the skill set, the fact that he played decently filling in for Jordan Love at the end of the season. But when I got to the film and really watched what he was doing, how he was seeing the field, the athletic traits, the arm strength, the playmaking in off structure and off platform situations, I mean, some of the throws he made in that game were eye popping and like, as a, as a Chargers writer, like I watch Justin Herbert every week. So like my threshold is pretty high in terms of what impresses me from a quarterbacking standpoint. And some of these throws were, were in that vein. And then you talk about in that game two zone read touchdowns where he's pulling it to the outside, running away from defenders. Like the skill set is eye popping and like you've had some of these situations where guys have been in that mid market situation. You know, talk about Justin Fields last year getting 2 years 40 million. I mean, this to me is a much, much better option than some of those other mid tier BR starting options that have been available in free agency in recent seasons. And he kind of skyrocketed up my board as I watched more of his film from those two games, week 16 and week 17 when he was filling in for Jordan.
- [07:43]
James Palmer
Love.
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Dan Popper
And you know, I think the upside is tremendous and obviously the traits were there coming out of college for sure, but backing up for a couple of years, you know, playing under Matt Lafleur, all that stuff I think has put him in a position to make some money this off season and be a really, really strong candidate for some places that have quarterback openings.
- [08:01]
James Palmer
Yeah, speaking of the Money, you have two years, 46 million on here as the contract projection. I want to take it back. It was like end of the season, I was talking to a general manager and I was like, well, what's your take on, on kind of Malik Willis? And he was like, we liked him a lot. We thought there was a chance we could bring him in to kind of back up our guy. That ain't happening, man. Like, he's like, that's just not happening. And his initial thought, I go, all right, what do you think he's going to get? And he was like, I don't know. I could see 15 to 20, but definitely some incentives built into that.
- [08:30]
Dan Popper
Right?
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James Palmer
Like just because of the sample size. And I think now that's only kind of snowballed a little bit further and I think it's kind of pushed itself forward. What I am interested in, because I heard some rumblings about this and I'm kind of curious. What you had kind of thought is like, was it simplified for him? Because I had heard they had simplified some things for Jordan as well. So you may not be able to see a vast difference from Jordan to Malik. If it was already kind of. Matt was changing it a little bit for Jordan. I know that he is kind of the X factor in this floor because of how good of a coach he is. And I'm just, I'm looking at landing spots going. Will it be the same incubator for success the way that Green Bay was?
- [09:16]
Dan Popper
Well, you don't even have to look outside the family to look at a potential landing spot for him. Right. Like Mike got the job thing I
- [09:21]
James Palmer
got to figure out first and then. Yeah, let's.
- [09:23]
Dan Popper
Right, well, you know, Michael Flores in Arizona, they're looking for a quarterback. Like, if you're talking about finding a scheme that's very similar and finding a spot where he can function in similar environment, that's one I would throw out. And then you go to Miami, right, You've got two guys from Green Bay there that are very familiar with Malik Willis. John Eric Sullivan's the gm. Jeff Hafley spent two years with Malik Willis, you know, calling the defense in practice. Malik Willis, I assume was running scout team for the Packers. So obviously, you know, familiarity there, so you have options there in terms of putting it, you know, into a system where you. With some similarities. Obviously Matt lafleur is Matt lafleur and he's a singular talent, you know, as a coach and play caller and schemer. But there are options. I think to me, like in structure, he was really solid. The out of structure playmaking was remarkable. And that's, that's why I ended up nudging the contract projection up a little bit from your typical sort of mid market bridge, you know, take a chance on this guy starter, because that stuff that he showed in that Ravens game was like top, top level stuff. And that's really what, what changes the quarterback position. It changes how you play offense. It changes how you, how you play. Call the ability when it isn't there for you early in the down to escape and create explosives, that really is the difference maker. It's one thing to sort of run around and find open guys for those, you know, intermediate gains, but he's escaping the pocket, looking downfield. He has the arm strength to make every throw on the field. And then you factor in the legs, which are elite. Elite. He's got contact balance as a runner in the pocket. The tape was, was phenomenal. And that's why I ended up nudging him up a little bit more. But I think there's some interesting fits around the league. I don't know how you feel about Arizona. Miami.
- [11:00]
James Palmer
Yeah, Miami. I'm a little bit curious about just. And I think sometimes these things are like tells to me, what if Miami's not interested and Jeff Halfley saw him every day and was like, I don't see it. Like, I'm always kind of curious if they're not. But then it might be the financials. That would be a play for them as well because of where they stand in terms of their cap in their situation. And they may. If they have to cut to eating all 54, if they have to trade to a. I don't know, what does a team pay? 5, 10 of it, like, and they still end up eating a good chunk of the. To a contract. Can you afford the numbers that you're putting out there? Which I think are pretty accurate right there on it. Like, do you just go, well, maybe Quinn Ewers is the guy for a year. Let's see if he can be that guy. He wasn't terrible at the end of the year. I know obviously finances play a part, but I think that's a good. So I do think Arizona makes sense. I don't know what New York wants to do with everything that they have built, it seems like for 27, with the extra firsts that they have in 27. And do they, you know, do they look for a bridge guy? Do they look for. It's just. It is fascinating because I think he's kind of the first one to fall. And then we kind of figure out where. Where teams are thinking and what they're thinking. But you're right. The deep accuracy is like, no joke. The ability to manipulate the pocket that we saw in those games that you were breaking down is really good. He had poise in there. Like, it was.
- [12:19]
Dan Popper
Yeah, yeah, that's really good. That's a big thing that jumped out to me is he just looked comfortable. He looked in control. And that's a big thing that you're looking for in a quarterback. Like, you can. You can have the traits, and. But if it's chaotic, it's not sustainable. And there wasn't a lot of chaos there. It just felt like he was super comfortable within the scheme. He was comfortable with where his eyes were going. Um, and then, you know, when the play broke down, then the traits just took over and, you know, and. And he didn't turn the ball over. Like, there was one lost fumble, and it was just on a miscommunication with the center, where the center snapped it early, it looked like. And it hit him in the face. And it was just one of those fluke plays, but otherwise, like, the ball wasn't really being put in danger either. So the poise is a big thing. A hundred percent.
- [13:00]
James Palmer
Yeah, I like that. All right, we don't have Joe Flacco on this list, by the way, down to 144. I'm looking right now. Well, no, we do.
- [13:07]
Dan Popper
Flacco's 92.
- [13:09]
James Palmer
When I was looking at Aaron Rodger.
- [13:10]
Dan Popper
I think the arm is live. The arm is live, folks.
- [13:13]
James Palmer
You know that. That bro is going to be able to throw the football at 65 years old.
- [13:19]
Dan Popper
Like, 100%.
- [13:21]
James Palmer
He really will. You know where I could see him going? I could see him. I could see Kevin Stefanski being like, michael Penix is not ready yet. Can you start the season for us in Atlanta? You know what I mean? Like, can you get going for us here in Atlanta? I think Kirk is an option there as well, but in returning, even after everything that transpires with the contract. But I always feel like Joe will have a job, which is, like, weird to think.
- [13:48]
Dan Popper
Yeah, well, the game's going to age. It is aging very, very well. Right? I mean, the mobility is a limiting factor.
- [13:56]
James Palmer
Like, there was a little bit when he was 25.
- [13:58]
Dan Popper
Right, right. That's the thing, though. Like, he never really was, like, a supreme athlete, but the arm is, like, legitimately live. Like, he can really access all three levels of the field. The, the timing and rhythm in the quick game is still there. Like, he can push it outside the numbers. He can rip it over the middle of the field. Like the arm. The arm talent is still very legitimately up to NFL standards, NFL starting standards. So he's an option for me. Like, I thought going into this, I thought Flacco might be a little bit lower in these rankings, maybe like, you know, making an argument for cracking the 1:50. Watch the film. I'm like, this, this is NFL arm talent. And, like, you can do a lot worse than Joe Flacco as, as a bridge option. So I ended up pushing him up into the top 100, actually, because I thought he, you know, and, and like, you look at the competition, right? Like, he kept the Bengals, if they had, like, the 20th best defense in the league, he might have won a bunch of games there from week six to week 12 because they were putting up points and they were in a
- [14:56]
James Palmer
lot of games, weren't they, like the number one offense in that stretch in, like, points or yards or one of the metrics?
- [15:01]
Dan Popper
Yeah, he was like, he was in, in passing yards across the league in that span from Week 6 to Week 12. So I, I, you know, listen, I, I would bring in Joe Flacco as a bridge probably until he's like 50 years old because the arm is just going to be there and. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful to watch. The spiral will be there as long as he's walking this earth. Yeah, he'll be throwing a beautiful spiral.
- [15:25]
James Palmer
I remember Emmanuel Sanders telling me once, he's like, bro, and just throwing a football shorts, T shirt. It's the best ball maybe in the history of the league. Like, just gifted. The. Just. Just the ability to throw a football. Unreal.
- [15:37]
Dan Popper
Pride of. Pride of. Pride of Autobahn New Jersey. By the way, my wife is from South Jersey, and every time we go back to South Jersey to visit her family, we go to a diner in Autobahn and they have a shrine to Joe Flacco at the front of the diner that you have to stop and look at before you walk through the door to order your pork roll, egg and cheese. So I gotta shout that out.
- [15:54]
James Palmer
I. I love that. Well, I feel like I'm from Philly, so every time I talk to him, I feel like I'm at home. And he's like, oh, yeah, dude, how's everybody back home over there in the room? Yeah, sounds like everybody I grew up with.
- [16:06]
Dan Popper
That's awesome.
- [16:07]
James Palmer
I want to talk about the running back position as a whole here, Dan, because like, what we've seen from the last two super bowl champions, right, you see a really, really good commitment to running the football. Obviously, two years ago, Saquon has this unreal season. And then you see what Kenneth Walker does down the stretch. We also know when they didn't even run it successfully at stretches, Clint Kubiak was never going to get away from running the football. Right. And you saw the value in that. And so where do you see what's transpired lately with the position? And remember that year where everybody got tagged? Wasn't it like Saquon got tagged and Josh Jacobs got tagged? I think there was a third guy who got tagged in that group as well. Um, and now the. The position's kind of changed. And you saw Genti get picked where he's picked. Well, how does that change this free agents? You know, the way everybody looks at this running back group in terms of free agency.
- [16:53]
Dan Popper
Yeah, I'm happy you brought up Saquon. Cause I'm really curious to see if that signing changes the approach to free agent running backs. Because the Eagles were close, they had a great offensive line. They signed Saquon in free agency and he changes their offense and they make a run and they win the Super Bowl. Is there a team out there that feels like they have good infrastructure, solid quarterback play, a good offensive line. That feels like if they get that upper echelon running back into the building and onto the field, that they can take that step and be a really dominant offense. That could be the case. And there are some guys here that could, that could provide not the same lift, right? Cause Saquon is singular in terms of his talent. But there are some guys in here where you could see, okay, maybe, you know, they look at what happened with the Eagles in 24 and they say, you know, maybe it's worth it to hand out $14 million a year to a running back and see if that can really get us to a dominant place in the running game. And so I, like, I ended up ranking Breeze hall number two. I'm, I'm, I guarantee you that's going to be the highest. I mean, it's pretty close to the highest possible, but you know, a lot of people are going to have him top 10. But I loved his film and I watched a lot of it. Like I, because I was like, I, you know, am I really going to put a running back here? I ended up watching 5, 6 games over the course of the year. And I just think he has that explosive element. He is a home run threat every time he touches the ball. He's remarkably dangerous in the open field. He's a mismatch advantage, one on one against anybody in space. He has a diverse array of moves to get away from people. The ability to turn checkdowns into explosive plays, I think is where you can find a ton of value at running back. If you have a quarterback that can distribute and find him on check down opportunities, it can be a four yard completion that he then turns into a touchdown of 65 yards. Because he's that explosive. And, and just when I looked, you know, I graded all these guys on a scale 2.0 to 8.0, 8.0 being hall of Fame, 2.0 being sort of practice squad, 5.0 was, was average starter and Breece hall ended up at a, at a 7.0 in my, in my grading scale. Just because I'm like, this is a real legitimate talent and, and he tops a really, really, really strong list. Like, if I, if you were asking me what's the strongest position, I think I would go running back pretty easily because then you go down to Kenneth Walker in the run that he had in the playoffs. You know, great center of gravity, contact, balance, you know, showed the super bowl that he can attack the edges, which is something that he's done throughout his career in Seattle. Even moving further down the list. Like I'm really high on Travis ETN. I thought he had a fantastic 10. Oh yeah, I thought he was awesome in Liam Cohen's offense. Not as physical, but really dangerous as a lateral mover. And horizontally can affect the passing game, even some good like mid tier options. Right. Like, I thought Rico Dowdle was really, really solid if you're looking for that physical presence in the running game. Javante Williams had a career season and I thought some of his production was related to the infrastructure in Dallas. You know, you have those two, two receivers and CD Lamb and George Pickens. You got Dak Prescott face a ton of light boxes. Led the NFL actually in rushing yards against lightboxes. But just like a really solid doubles hitter who's going to get what's blocked for him. Really physical finisher in the open field. So like there, those are five guys right there that I think you could go out and give decent contracts to and feel good about them potentially, you know, elevating your situation. But in terms of like premium talent at the top of this group, there's. There are a lot of guys there. And I wonder if teams are going to sort of look back to 24 and say, you know what, like our, our position on running back has changed a little bit. Like this could be like a season altering type of signing.
- [20:26]
James Palmer
I think, I think it can. I threw Genti in there too. Just because of. Just that we're just looking at thinking, right. And we're just looking at team building
- [20:32]
Dan Popper
and we're looking at philosophy. Right, exactly.
- [20:34]
James Palmer
Philosophy and the value that people are looking at these positions. And so I do think the idea of the player being a weapon is becoming more and more of the thought process at the position. Right. And my brain immediately goes to like, what is Jameer Gibbs going to get paid this offseason? Right? Because that's kind of like to me, him and Bijan are that and to where. I mean, I talked to people in Atlanta, they were like third down. Our options in the progressions go Drake London, Bijan Robinson, then Kyle Pitts. Like that is our B. John's awesome, you know, just the way Bijan is. And so when I look at some of these guys, I do think you have a flavor for everything that's kind of available to you. Did you kind of put an emphasis and you mentioned a little bit with Breece and etn, like the, the emphasis on explosive plays in the run game because that's starting to Be something that, with the way these defenses are playing, like, can we get lots of chunk yards from, from guys that are more explosive at the back? Where did they get a little bit more of a bump? Guys that have the explosiveness to them in terms of creating those. Then maybe the grinders like a Tyler Algier, who I still think is a very viable back with the, with the system he came from and the limited carries he had with working with Bijan, I think that's a guy that you can maybe get some value in. When I look at some of those guys, even Kenneth Gainwell's very specific set of skills he has, it's unlike Liam Neeson here, but like the way he was used for stretches and Aaron Rodgers loved him the way he was used for stretches in some of the things that he did. How did that, that all kind of come into the thinking because these guys are being used so differently.
- [22:07]
Dan Popper
Yeah, I think when you're talking about like top 50, top 30 guys, like I'm using explosive ability as a, as a separator in some of those situations. If you're going to be, you know, that type of running where you're looking at, you know, 13, 14 plus million dollars a year, you have to have, I think, that explosive element to your game. But I love a physical back man. Like, you know, I grew up watching Brandon Jacobs with the New York Giants. Like, you know, I think that there are, you know, roles for those guys in the NFL, especially as teams start, you know, using some heavier personnel, trying to take advantage of some of the light boxes and structural things defensively that have taken over the league. Algiers, a guy I really, really like, obviously he was super productive as a rookie.
- [22:51]
James Palmer
And then they was over a thousand, right? I think.
- [22:54]
Dan Popper
Yep, over a thousand his rookie year. And then they, they drafted Bijan the next year and, you know, sort of played a second fiddle role, but, you know, he's a guy that's super physical between the tackles. Rico Dowdle sort of falls in that, in that, in that same sort of vein. So I think like when you're talking about the top of this market, all of these guys have real explosive playability. But as you move further down, if you're looking for a 1B kind of running back, a different flavor. There are some physical backs in here that might not be able to, you know, break it in the open field and score some of these 60 yard touchdowns, but they are going to wear down a defense in terms of how they play. And that's something that sort of changed my philosophy a little bit, I'd say covering Jim Harbaugh, covering Joe Ortiz. You know their philosophy in terms of like the value of a running back that can wear a defense down and take over a game in the fourth quarter. I think there's a lot of value there, even if they're not a guy that's going to be able to to create these explosive plays. So I think as you move down past probably the top three, you're going to get some some different flavors as far as what exactly the role is. You bring up Kenneth Gainwell, it's a great example of a different flavor. Not really your, you know, traditional between the tackles running back, but super versatile as a receiver. And you mentioned Aaron Rodgers. I mean he was getting to his check down so often and Gainwell, you know, was really productive in those situations. Has a receiver like skill set. So. So as you move down the list, different flavors for different roles, but a lot of guys to like for different reasons.
- [24:23]
James Palmer
Yeah, for sure. I love it. All right, we're going to take a quick break. We're going to be back with Dan. I have another thing I want to look at specifically with you. It was prevalent in both teams in the super bowl and I'm kind of curious if it's going to be used Free agency this off season. Stay with us.
- [24:41]
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- [25:12]
Matt
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- [25:41]
Matt (P1 with Matt and Tommy)
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- [26:28]
James Palmer
All right, welcome back to Scoop City on a Thursday. Dan Popper, James Palmer joining you as we break down his unbelievable list of the 150 free agents. Just go check it out. It's ranked. There's everything you need. You can use it throughout the course of this entire off season period as you're trying to figure out what your team's going to do. I mentioned this and I teased it, Dan. What I saw was such an emphasis, and we've seen this with other teams that I mentioned. I'm just talking about teams that get to the top. And this is a copycat league. The emphasis on the trenches for both Seattle and for New England. Now, they did it in different ways, both of them. You draft guys and you plug and play guys, but you look at like, let's go on the defensive side of the ball first for the way Seattle got that group up front, right. They were aggressive in getting some guys. And then you draft as well. How do you see teams looking? And you can start actually either side here looking at the trenches in terms of some of these guys plugged and played for these super bowl teams and did pretty well. I mean, Morgan Moses comes out of.
- [27:26]
Matt
I don't know.
- [27:26]
James Palmer
I don't know how much more football he has left, but he plays fine and you pick him up in free agents. So, like, what do you. What do you see from. From the trenches side of things and how teams can look at who's available?
- [27:37]
Dan Popper
Yeah, I mean, it's not necessarily new that, like, if you have a loaded front and you can rotate guys, particularly on the edge that you're going to, you're going to have an advantage. Like, teams have been winning Super Bowls that way for a long time. You can go back to, you know, not to keep talking about the Giants, but those giants teams with O.C. minora, Justin Tuck, you know, having the ability to get home with four has always been an advantage in the postseason, and that was a huge part of what Seattle did. So, you know, it's. There are some edge players available. You know, I think covering the Chargers over the last few years with Jesse Minter, you know, having three guys minimum, that can really get after the quarterback changes how you can scheme defensively, especially if you have a player that can kick inside and you can get into some of these three edge rusher packages. The Chargers were able to do it with, you know, Khalil Mack, Tuli Tupalo to obviously the Seahawks had, you know, felt like a million guys. You know, guys were just Shannon Nuosu
- [28:37]
James Palmer
like, yeah, it's just.
- [28:38]
Dan Popper
Yeah, yeah. You're watching Seattle and you're like, wait, they also have him and him, you know, boy, Mafe, you know, was, was a piece there. Derek hall obviously had a great super bowl, so it'll be interesting to see. I think teams have always tried to, you know, build that type of rush and build that type of front defensively, to just have different pieces that can attack in different ways, keep guys fresh. Obviously it's easier said than done, right? I think you have to tip your cap to John Schneider and the whole Seattle organization for the way that they've built that front to have all of those different types of pieces. But it's very clear that if you can get home with four, you'll have an advantage. The best way to get home with four is obviously to have talented players, but to have a bunch of them stacked down the depth charts, you can rotate guys and keep them fresh and obviously I think that's always going to be a part of the team building process. On the flip side, offensively along the line, like, it's hard to find starters in free agency. The reality is teams lock up their
- [29:42]
James Palmer
guys so much better than they did in years past. Like, that's why were in this situation, right? Like, you're not seeing tackles become available very often.
- [29:51]
Dan Popper
It's hard to find. Like, it's just hard to find. Even like reliable mid level starter play is like very difficult to find. And when you find that, you keep them. Because there's just not that many players in the NFL that can successfully operate along the offensive line. Like, like doing this process, I think, you know, I knew that. But going through this process I think illuminated like the, the lack of offensive line depth across the league. You know, because I watched 15 to 20 tackles, I watched 15 to 20 guards. Center was a little bit lighter in this year's free agent class, but there was a lot of really mediocre offensive line tape that I watched over hours and hours and hours and hours. And you know, and let me throw
- [30:35]
James Palmer
Tyler Linderbaum on again. Every team apparently is landing him.
- [30:39]
Dan Popper
Yeah, yeah, I went, you know, had to keep going back and you know, watching more Tyler Linderbaum just to like calm my nerves and be like, there are, there are good ones, there are good ones out there. And like there were, there were a few guys that, you know, I got to and you know, was pleasantly surprised. Like Cade Mays from Carolina, a couple centers, really. Cade Mays, I thought played good football for Carolina this past year. And then Luke Fortner, who got traded from the Jaguars to the Saints before the season. He ended up starting when Eric McCoy went down. I thought he was pretty solid at center, but it's, it's a different ball game when you're talking about offensive trenches versus defensive trenches. I think like interior defensive line edge. Like you can find some guys in free agency to build that type of depth. If you're really focusing on being able to get home with four along the offensive line. Like if you are going to get a mid level starter in free agency, you are going to overpay. Like that's just the.
- [31:29]
James Palmer
How many guys, just a week guys were overpaid this past offseason, this past free agency? I mean, I was looking at the, like, I mean these are mid level. There were mid level guards getting like,
- [31:39]
Dan Popper
Aaron, the Aaron Bank Steel blew my mind. The Aaron Banks deal blew my mind when it happened. I didn't understand it and didn't really work out for Green Bay. But like it's reset the market, right? If you're, you know, Zion Johnson is one of my top rated guards, Chargers, left guard. If I'm his camp, you know, I'm pointing to that contract that Aaron Banks signed being like, my guy's better than this guy. So like where does that leave us? Like it should be $20 million a year, right? Like, yeah. So, you know, you look at tackle, you look at guard. I mean like Rasheed Walker is the best tackle. He's my highest rated tackle in this free agent class. Solid pass protector, sort of a, you know, mid range, mid level starter in the league. Like if he actually makes it to the market, you know, you're talking about $22 million a year. You know, I think I ended up projecting like 20, 20 and a half, right?
- [32:35]
James Palmer
4 for 82. Yeah, so.
- [32:37]
Dan Popper
So that's sort of what you're looking at. Like, I think it's two different ball games. Like if you're talking about building defensive trenches, you can find diamonds in the rough. You can find players with upside and, and actually get some Value on the contract you sign. Offensive line wise, there aren't as many guys under the radar that you can try and sign. And then if you're going to shop at the top of these markets and try and find starters along the offensive line, you're. You're going to overpay. That's just the. The rules of engagement, really.
- [33:03]
James Palmer
And that's why I. I was curious and this is going to lead into something else, but I did want to mention the interior of these defensive linemen too, because like that at the top of your group and there's a massive drop off after John Franklin Myers. I mean, he's 17 and you dropped all the way down and Oyamada's at 50.
- [33:17]
Dan Popper
Yeah.
- [33:18]
James Palmer
I look at how JFM landed in Denver and to me that's like team building. Right? Like in the way that they gave up, I think. Like a. What was it, like a sixth or something?
- [33:27]
Dan Popper
Yeah, it was like a fifth or sixth. Something like that.
- [33:28]
James Palmer
Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:29]
John Machota
And then.
- [33:29]
James Palmer
And then you profit off of it. But then you might have to move on because then the next team usually is the one that ends up paying after you were successful with players like that. But players like him are what made Denver who they were. Obviously there's a lot of talent on that defense, but the interior allows, I think, edge rushers to be even better than maybe the two guys are in Denver. I think they're very good. I think they're better because of what they had on the interior to create some. Some sort of attention. And so with that said, before we go, I wanted to mention, like, let's have a conversation about who do you think will be kind of like the team that makes the mistake of being too aggressive and because we're talking about overpaying. And the reason I brought up kind of the super bowl teams is because I think New England was very much so in the vein of being outside of Milton Williams, who they paid just the bag for. Milton admitted it. It's like, oh, yeah, I took the money, which. He'd been great. He's been great. We're a little bit strategic with some of their free agency. And that's why I love that you have 150. Because it's not just the names at the top. I think good team building is a lot of these guys that are in the bulk of it.
- [34:39]
Dan Popper
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I like what the Patriots did. They. It's a rare occurrence to hit on that many free agents. Like the contracts that they gave out. There was a lot of risk involved you know, talk about Milton Williams. He was solid this year. I think you can, you can still say that was an overpay based on how he played this year. Like, he was really good.
- [35:01]
James Palmer
Overpay in some of them, right? Like where they were coming from. From four wins.
- [35:04]
Dan Popper
Yeah, right, right. But like, you could still say, I think that, that the Mill and Williams contract is a little bit above what he probably deserves. Really good player, really impactful player, great rusher, plays with a great motor. I think part of it too is that like you talk about the infrastructure that these guys were put into, right? Like the culture that was built by Mike Vrabel. I think, like, as a result, a lot of these guys that got paid, Stefan Days, Carlton Davis were urged, you know, to be leaders, to take over from a play style standpoint, to set the tone, all of that kind of stuff. But you go down the list, like they still had contributors where they found value, right? Like Kairos Tonga is a really good example. He was more of an underrated. Under underrated signing for the, for the Patriots. Davis, yeah, Carlton Davis. Right. But like, I'm talking like, like Tonga was like a, you know, five million dollar deal or something like that. And he was like their best run defender on the interior all season long. So, you know, I think you can, you can microwave a, A run. Like, I think the Bengals did it in 21 when they made all those signings in the defensive side of the ball. And you know, really, that defense is playing at a super high level with, with Luanna Remo during that.
- [36:17]
James Palmer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Lou, exactly.
- [36:21]
Dan Popper
But there is always going to be risk involved if you get really, really aggressive in free agency and try and heat up your build. I think with the Patriots, they looked at it and said like, there's just got to be more talent here for us to be competitive. And as a result, they were willing to sort of pay above market and be really aggressive in that way. But in the same way that there are success stories, there are a lot more failure stories as far as being super aggressive in free agency. So, like, I think the best teams operate with a level of pragmatism as far as having their number for a guy not going above it. Because a lot of times if you go way above what the market rate is for a player, you're not getting value on that contract. And the worst case scenario is really, really, really bad.
- [37:05]
James Palmer
Yeah, that's a really good point. And that's why I also look at, with some of this and the risk taken when I look at who might land where? We have so many changes in terms of coaching staffs this past offseason.
- [37:16]
Dan Popper
Right.
- [37:16]
James Palmer
We have 10 openings. I always go like, all right, who had familiarity with who previously and who can they really know how to use and how to get something out of them is something that I always kind of try to keep in the back of my mind.
- [37:28]
Dan Popper
All right.
- [37:28]
James Palmer
Since you cover the Chargers as well, I have to ask this because there's some interesting aspects in terms of free agency with, with the Chargers. So the last thing I have for you is what will we see from the Los Angeles Chargers, you think, in terms of free agency? Because there's a lot of. There's. There's some highly ranked guys, honestly, on your list that could be out the door.
- [37:47]
Dan Popper
Yeah. So they're third in the league in cap space, which I think might lead a lot of people to say, okay, they're going to be super aggressive, but a lot of that space is going to have to go to some of these internal guys. Like, I think they really have to sign resign Zion Johnson at left guard. I think the pieces fit together more easily when he's there. Then, you know, try and find a starting center and free agency you can figure out, you know, right guard in the draft. If they end up moving on from Kai Becton, you know, they have to keep this edge room together to some degree. Khalil Mack is a free agent. Adafe Owe is a free agent. They're probably going to have to extend Tuli Tupolotu after he had a 13 sack season. DeShawn Hand was a really important piece for them on the interior. He pairs really well with Tier Tart just because he's sort of that run stuffing interior defensive lineman that can take on double teams to be really stout in those situations. They already resigned Tier tart to a 3 or $30 million deal. So I think their off season really has to start with getting some of these back, these guys back in the building, resigning them, and then sort of seeing where they're at. Obviously, I think they should be in the, the Linder Bomb sweep sweepstakes. I think he's a fantastic player and obviously they have a ton of familiarity with him. Joe Ortiz does. You know, he was a part of drafting Linderbaum, so they could probably make like one or two splashes. But I think with what they have to manage from an internal free agent perspective, you know, a good amount of the space, I think has to start there.
- [39:13]
James Palmer
Yeah, okay. What do we say? Familiarity, you know, somebody you're part of doing the work on them and you bring them in. I felt like every one of every off season thing I'm reading right now, I think every team is like. And then they're going to go after Tyler Linderbaum, like, every single. Like, on every single day. This guy. This guy can't play for 32 teams.
- [39:33]
Dan Popper
Right? But that gets back to our point, right? Like. Like when really good offensive linemen hit the open market, everybody's interested because that just doesn't really happen. And like, in reality, he's probably not going to hit the open market. Right. Like, he's probably going to resign in Baltimore. And knowing Jesse Minter, you know, coming from. From Los Angeles, like, I know he's going to be prioritizing that offensive line, and I would be shocked if he let a player of Tyler Linderbaum's caliber walk out the door. Yeah, yeah.
- [39:58]
James Palmer
You don't usually do that. That's why I always look at the guys at the top of your list going, well, does Breece hall get tagged? Do they let him leave? You know what I mean?
- [40:05]
Dan Popper
They did.
- [40:05]
James Palmer
They didn't want to give up a fourth form at the deadline. Do they want to make sure that they can keep him and in some capacity? We'll see. But yeah, that's the.
- [40:12]
Dan Popper
That's the.
- [40:12]
James Palmer
That's the hard part. You don't want good players cleaving your building, and that's why we try to lock them up before they have to have these difficult decisions. Dan, this was outstanding. Enjoy. Wait, no, you're not skiing. We were talking earlier. You're not skiing. Before the combine. After the combine.
- [40:26]
Dan Popper
After the combine. Heading up to Mammoth. Yeah.
- [40:27]
James Palmer
After I see you in Indy, you'll head up to Mammoth and shred. Okay.
- [40:31]
Dan Popper
Looking forward to it.
- [40:33]
James Palmer
Thank you, brother.
- [40:33]
Dan Popper
This was awesome. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
- [40:36]
James Palmer
All right, that was outstanding, but we have much more to come here on Scoop City. No, we're not done. Not even close. John Machota joins us, covers the Cowboys for us brilliantly here at the Athletic. Is George Pickens on the move. Could Max Crosby be coming to Dallas? Cover all that next, guys. It's no use putting it off. The best time for an underwear refresh is now. Tommy. John underwear is designed for a perfect fit that stays put all day. There's zero chafe, thanks to four times more stretch than competing brands and their innovative horizontal quickdraw fly is a game changer. With over 30 million pairs sold, there are thousands of men out there more comfortable than you. Don't settle for less go to tommyjohn.com today for 25% off your first order with code comfort. That's tommyjohn.com comfort Tommy John comfort Perfected.
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- [42:31]
Dan Popper
All right.
- [42:31]
James Palmer
Welcome back to Scoop City on a Thursday. James Palmer back with you. John Machota joins us as he always does throughout the course of the season. And John, we love to talk about big headlines with you. We love to talk about man superstars could potentially be on the move. I don't know. I'm not sure if we'll get to any of the topics I have listed here outside of George Pickens, but let's start there. What is your initial thought right now about where things stand with George Pickens's future as a Dallas Cowboy?
- [43:00]
John Machota
Yeah, in terms of the 2026 season, I don't see him playing anywhere else. Now in terms of them getting a long term contract done where he's here for the next four years now, that's probably there's a little bit more of a gray area there, but he was just too good last year for them to even entertain. I know people throw out the possibility of you tag them or sign them and then trade them. I just don't see any way that they do that to everybody. Jerry, Brian Schottenheimer, Dak Prescott, they'll all openly say that he exceeded their expectations. So it's obvious that the defense is the issue in Dallas. It's okay. Let's keep building off this offense that we had that was one of the best in the league. I don't know how you do that when you don't have George Pickens. So if I'm predicting today, I'm saying that he's probably playing the season under the franchise tag and I would, I would say that there is 100% chance he's not going anywhere else. But unfortunately, last offseason with Micah Parsons, that makes you just. Well, you gotta, you gotta keep the door cracked just a little bit because of that. But before Micah, it was 100%. Jerry's not letting a superstar go in his prime. But because of that, obviously Mike having the same agent and David Mulagueda, you have to still leave the door cracked a little bit. But I just don't see a path where Jerry lets a top receiver out of the building.
- [44:12]
James Palmer
Yeah, that's what I was going to say, John. It's almost like, okay, what did we see Jerry do? Break the mold a little bit, lets a star player go. You always think, okay, does that mean that they're thinking as an organization and they saw what they could get in terms of the return from Micah, could that change the way we think about things a little bit? There's another part of this and you mentioned obviously the David Mulaguetta part and, and the same agent as, as Micah, as, as George has. How do you think George would handle playing on the Tech after the year that he had? I would assume no receiver would want to sit and play the one year on the tag. Would that work out okay in terms of getting him on the field?
- [44:50]
John Machota
I don't think it would work out okay. I think he would ultimately play under. I mean it would. It's in the neighborhood of about $28 million. So for a full year, guaranteed 28 million. I'm sure he would much prefer that long term deal that probably would average north of 28 for over four years. So there's no question he's not going to love it. But I don't see it to be where one of those things where he's going to miss games because we saw last year he's not playing in the preseason. They'll have, they'll likely have a Rams or some other team that they'll go against in training camp out in California that they'll do one like live day of practicing with them. And that'll be like the tune up for Dak and CD and George. And it's not like they're going to. He's going to be sitting out preseason games like he's going to be ready to go for the regular season. But yeah, there Will be definitely times where he's probably not thrilled about it and things like that. No question. I mean, that just. That's going to be part of it. So it's. It's the Cowboys, though, and it doesn't bother Jerry and Dax. Been there 10 years. It's not going to really bother Dak. Dak, to me, has always been kind of like he's kind of the peacemaker in a sense. I mean, Brian Shotenheimer can be too, but Dax has been around for such a long time that he can be the middleman there and, you know, be the guy, the sounding board for George, because let's be honest, it's not like Dak just got his contracts, like right when he was up. New contract for Dak. I mean, he's been through the song and dance as well, so he can speak on that. And same thing with cd. CD missed out training camp a couple years ago trying to do the same thing. So he's got guys around him that are going to be able to tell you, hey, man, I'm not just saying this to you. I've actually been through this. And so I think that helps him to a certain extent.
- [46:22]
James Palmer
Yeah. You know, you mentioned Dak. I was talking to somebody in Dallas the other day who was just kind of like. And I wanted to ask you this part too is everybody was so worried about. Nobody doubts the talent, George Pickens, but we were all well aware of the track record of off the field stuff and position coaches and Mike Tomlin and them differing with George Pickens and for one reason or another, and the things that came up there. And we were always curious how that was going to work in Dallas. And we saw that this went pretty well. I think we had a little Vegas incident, maybe, I'm not sure, but it went as a whole pretty well. I was, as I mentioned, talking to somebody. They're like, as long as Dax in the building, I have a lot of faith. And you mentioned of him as kind of the peacemaker. Are there after a season with George Pickens, kind of like the concerns about that aspect that I just described. Are they kind of just gone after the year they had, or are there still a little bit of a thought of we got to make sure that this is a different personality.
- [47:12]
John Machota
Yeah, I'm sure there's still a little bit of that. And as you know, I'm sure those come up behind the scenes and contract talks, they're not just going to sit there and say, all right, what do you want?
- [47:19]
James Palmer
Everything. Yeah, you use everything.
- [47:20]
John Machota
Yeah, well, you want to just make them the highest paid player? Let's just do that right now. No, there's going to be stuff. I mean, I mean, you got to factor that in too, with the Cowboys. I mean, Dax getting 60 million a year. You know, CDs over 30 million. So it's like, I'm sure if George gets a long term deal to be in that 30 plus million range. So it's like you have all that money potentially tied up in three positions. And so because of that, I do think that the Cowboys will bring some of that stuff up. But from everybody I've talked to and then certainly the way that the players feel about him, they absolutely want him back. That they don't see him as any type of a distraction or a problem or anything like that. And ultimately the players know what he can do on Sundays and that's the thing that they care about most and for most of Sunday, especially when they needed him when CD was injured and that he came up big most of the time. And so Dak's been very clear on wanting George back throughout the season and never once was there ever. I mean, we get Dak every week and he's, he's pretty open about things, whether he's talking to his locker at the podium. And never once did I get a sense of a, you know, well, George has got to grow up a little bit. You know, never any of anything like that. Never any mention of it. I mean, really, the only mention of it publicly is a couple times. Brian Schottenheimer last season made like a little comment about, hey, is he always at meetings on time or something like that, like, and just kind of threw that out. And it was about a different topic, but it was one of those where you heard him be like, all right, well put that in the back of my head, obviously, that there's. He's probably doesn't have perfect attendance or anything like that, but what he does on Sundays is too good for them to want to move in another direction.
- [48:47]
James Palmer
Yeah, it's, it's outstanding. All right, new defensive coordinator speaks yesterday. Christian Parker, what was your initial take of, of a guy getting an opportunity who, when I talk to people around the league, think the absolute world of, and know this guy is kind of on a, on a, on a fast track and where he's headed. What was the initial take coming out of that press conference about how this Cowboys defense is going to work under, under Christian Parker?
- [49:14]
John Machota
I mean, if I'm just being honest, I didn't know what to Expect because covering the Cowboys, generally speaking, their defensive coordinator is someone who not only has been a previous DC in the NFL, but they've been a previous head coach. I mean, it's from Rod Marinelli all the way through to Dan Quinn, Mike Nolan, Mike Zimmer, Eberfluss last year. So this was kind of a. All right, let's see. This is going to be. I don't really know a ton about Christian Parker. And it was the way I compare his press conference was pretty similar to last year's post draft press conference with Tyler Booker, their first round pick, where he's an offensive lineman out of Alabama and you're just kind of like, all right, well, let's see how. I mean, it's an offensive lineman, he's probably not going to say a ton or usually, you know, more of the quiet type. At least they have been with the Cowboys. And it was just in the press conference, you could just see like, oh, I can see how he won them over in the, in the whole combine pre draft interviews and just the way Parker answered questions and the way he talked about his philosophy and how he's come along so quickly. Obviously only being 34 years old, it was just very clear to me where, oh, I can see how this guy won the Zoom interview to where they were like, yeah, he's got to be one of the in house guys we bring in. And you know, Scheimer mentioned yesterday how so Parker was actually the last of their Zoom interviews. They did nine DC Zoom interviews and it was the last one that night. And even, you know, Sean Emmer was open about. He's like, you do one of these after another and there gets to a point where you're just kind of like, all right, I'm getting kind of tired or whatever like that. But he was like, there was just something about Christian at the end where we were like, we got to bring this guy in. There's just something about him. And then when he was in for the, you know, an official face to face with Brian and Jerry and Steven, they were like, yeah, we can't let this guy go. I mean, it's not about just like what he is now, but it's about his vision and where he sees the league going, which obviously is key when you look at around the league, obviously just the two teams that were in the super bowl, how big that defense is. But I think that he'll be fine. But it just, there's. There's so much that needs to happen with the personnel on defense for me to Sit there and say, like, none of these guys are just going to scheme up. Just give me any guys and I'll scheme up something awesome. We're going to be a top 15 defense. I mean, he's got to get players now too, but I can just. My biggest takeaway is I can see how he won them over.
- [51:15]
James Palmer
Yeah, for sure. I had heard after the Zoom interview, I believe Shotty called him like within 15, 20 minutes and like you're coming back for a second round. Like it was that quick that he made that impression in the first Zoom, that it was like you're moving on immediately. I don't know if that was because he was the last one, but I think it was partially because of the impression you're talking about as they were like, yeah, you're moving on to the, to the next round. You mentioned the personnel. Obviously you're right. You can scheme things up. Coaches can take players that are average to make them above average. Things like that can happen. But obviously you need the bodies in the building in the first place. Did you get a sense from. From Christian talking about anything that he wants to do defensively or from your, you know, reporting and digging as we head towards the combine spots on the field that they're really looking at that, that need to be a point of emphasis in this offseason?
- [52:05]
John Machota
Yeah, certainly with him having a defensive back background and the Cowboys corner cornerback play this past year was just so underwhelming. I mean, Diggs didn't perform up to what they were expecting as he was coming back from knee injury. Savone Ravel was coming from a knee injury out of college. And then Duron Bland had another foot injury for the second consecutive year. And so. And then they lose Jordan Lewis, who was a really big part of their team as a nickel in free agency. And so corner is, is right at the top and then right there with it is edge rusher and you can throw right in there. Right after it is middle linebacker. I mean they, they need someone that can be the guy that be their green dot that whether they think that that needs to be a veteran or that's somebody that they can get early in the draft, it just. There's so many holes on the defensive side of the ball that it's like they have two first round picks. I just don't see a way that they don't use both on defense. Like I just as much as Stephen Jones will bring up the 2020 draft where they needed an end and Caleb on Chase on was there, but they were at 17. And they were like, but we can't pass up CD Lamb. We never thought he would be here. And so there's a little bit of me not with the receiver, but more at offensive line that potentially that could happen. I mean, it's a team that's drafted offensive lineman 3 the last four years in the first round. But I still think ultimately at 12 and at 20, there will be. It'll be so close. It'll be like, all right, tiebreaker goes to the defense. We have to. There's just. There's just too many holes that need to be filled on defense.
- [53:28]
James Palmer
Yeah. And I'm assuming all of everybody in that building is going, all right, what did we hear? We heard that Christian Parker had two guys that he wanted. I heard this from Philadelphia side. He is two guys he stomped the ground for were Cooper DeJean and Quinon Mitchell coming out. And they got both of them. So, hey, man, let's listen to Christian Parker about some of these draft picks, hopefully. And maybe they'll. They'll hit the way that Philadelphia hit on those two guys in the secondary you mentioned.
- [53:53]
John Machota
Well, hey, key part on that too is that while the Cowboys have had quality drafting offensively, defensively, outside of Micah Parsons, there's a lot of swings and misses there. And I'm talking in like key early first day day or two in the draft. And so to your point, if that is the case, that would be huge for them because they have been missing on that. The high draft picks that hit on defense.
- [54:13]
James Palmer
That's a really good point. There's what? That's a first and a second round pick right in the same draft. So that's towards the top of the draft. You're exactly right. You mentioned edge, and I'd be remiss to not mention a particular name. With two X's and the Dallas Cowboys, is there any take or any thought of if Max Crosby wants out of Vegas that Jerry will pick up the phone and see if he could make that happen?
- [54:36]
John Machota
No question. I mean, it's Jerry Jones and especially with Micah Parsons gone, edge rusher is just such a big need for them. I mean, it just. Whether you're talking about starters, depth, whatever. I mean, edge rusher is just. It's a massive hole right now. And so, yes, I think they would. I just don't think they would trade 12 for him. I think if they get a player they like at 12 and then on draft night 20, maybe that there's some guys there that they're like, we like. But, man, if we can get Crosby in here, I mean, that instantly boosts this defense with pairing them with whoever they took at 12 on defense. I can see Jerry being really intrigued by that, unfortunately. Okay. So fortunately, if you're a Cowboys fan, you're going to love that because it's the big name, and, you know, it can make the instant impact. I just think it's more likely that they're at 20. The Raiders are going to want more than that. And then the Cowboys don't have a second or third because of the George Pickens trade, because of the Quinn and Mitchell trade. I'm sorry, the Quinn. Quinn and Williams trade. So with them not having. I just think it's far greater that they sit there at 20, and there's like five or six guys that they really like, and they try and move back six or seven spots, gain like a second or third so that they have another top 100 pick. And I. And the only reason I'm saying this is because, like I told you, they're just. There's too many holes that need to be filled on defense for it just to be one guy as great as Max Crosby is to fill all of it. But it is Jerry Jones and is the Cowboys, so you can never close the door on it.
- [55:58]
James Palmer
How many jerseys would he sell? Max Crosby and a Cowboys, man.
- [56:02]
John Machota
It's crazy, because just being around the Dallas area, you can just see how much the number three Pickens jerseys have picked up. I mean, by far. I mean, 88 and 4 are the two biggest ones. Yeah, but a Max Crosby one. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to say that it would be on. To me, the biggest. The biggest jump I saw Was. Was in 2016. Just all the fours and the 21s during Dak and Zeke's rookie year. Those are the biggest. And then there was a big jump with Micah, but I think Crosby would be right there with all of them because everybody knows who he is. You know, there's no, like, with all the other guys I'm talking about, there's projecting the rookies and stuff. Like, everybody knows what you're getting if you get Max Crosby and he's healthy. So, yeah, a lot of it would be great.
- [56:40]
James Palmer
And it's, like, no secret of, like, his makeup. Like, he's so easy to root for, like, who he is. Like, so everybody would just be like, no, I'm in, man. I'm just in. All right, before we go, I just saw this, and this popped into my head. John. I have to say it. Like, there Was like some list from Fox about coaches on the hot seat. And Brian Schottenheimer's name was on that list, like, middle of the pack. I was kind of surprised by that. I thought he did a really good job last year. If we think about everything that they went through, specifically in the off season and then even in the season, dealing with something that just teams do not deal with, you know, ever. Are you taken aback that his name's on that list? Like, I am a little bit.
- [57:18]
John Machota
But I will say. I will say from a national perspective, I can see how people would look at Jerry as someone who. If this doesn't work out, I. I gave him two years of moving on, and that's really not Jerry at this stage in his life. That was Jerry in the early 2000s, but. But that's not really Jerry now. I mean, obviously, the one that probably stands out most to people from afar is that a lot of people are like, I can't believe he gave Jason Garrett almost a decade, you know, and that's been how he is. I mean, there was a good chance Mike McCarthy was going to come back. That wasn't like, oh, Jerry's just so fed up that he's cutting ties. There's way more to that than that. I mean, there was a good possibility that Mike McCarthy was coming back. And so I don't see anything that can realistically happen this year for him to be on the hot seat. Because the only way I see them being at the same level or worse as they were last year is if, like, Dak got hurt and there were a lot of key injuries, and if there's. That, Jerry's not going to hold that against Brian Schottenheimer. So I would say, if you want to put him on that, like, let's say they have another season, they missed the playoffs, and you want to put them on that hot seat going into next season, I'd understand that. But I'm telling you, like, Jerry loves Brian Schottenheimer. Stephen loves Brian Schottenheimer. Like, and I just think Brian's too solid to let it completely go off the tracks. He's been around too long for it to just be like him. Do some just. Just dumb things where you're just like, I can't believe he did that. That's just not Brian. So I. I don't. I don't see that. But I also get the Jerry Jones aspect from a national perspective.
- [58:38]
James Palmer
Yeah, well, that's why you're on the show, brother. That's why we got you so we can shoot some of those narratives down when people are around the team every single day. All right, John Beer in Combine. What do you think?
- [58:49]
John Machota
Absolutely. I'm looking forward to it.
- [58:51]
James Palmer
Done.
- [58:51]
John Machota
Perfect.
- [58:52]
James Palmer
Good seeing you, man.
- [58:53]
John Machota
Good seeing you. Thanks for having me on.
- [58:56]
James Palmer
So much fun with all of these episodes. Make sure you follow everything we're doing next week when we're going to be in Indianapolis for the NFL scouting combine, as it is called. Dan Popper, thank you to you for joining me and all the work that he did on the 150 free agents. Just outstanding work. Make sure everybody checks that out. And John Machota joins me as well. John, thank you so much. That was awesome. I love chatting with him about the Cowboys and what's next there. I do think I would buy a Max Crosby Cowboys jersey. I'm an Eagles fan. Take it easy everybody. Parle tu francais, Hablas espanol? Parl italiano.
- [59:32]
Dan Popper
If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B B E L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.
- [60:07]
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