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Scoop City: Inside The NFL
Patriots Cinderella Story Turns To A Reality Check For a Super Bowl Return
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C
Why I'm not happy with you.
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D
I can't wait to find out.
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C
My wife's on the couch, she's scrolling through and she goes, I like this chat guy. And I said, what?
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D
You should have seen how late he was.
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C
She goes, I said, do you want to know how long I have to wait for that guy?
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D
I was sitting on that zoom for 15 minutes and he kept saying, Five more, five more, five more.
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I said.
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C
She goes, no, I like his energy. I said, I like his energy too. Once we start. Oh. Welcome into Scoop City on a Thursday. I'm James Palmer. Don't forget to like and subscribe. We'll be with you throughout the entire course of the off season. The combines right around the corner. Free agency. We're going to have everything covered from all 32 teams. Always bouncing inside those facilities. Always, always getting in the inside scoop from Diana Rossini and Chase Dan. And we have it all right here on this episode On a Thursday, we're going to get into the sights and sounds of that parade in Seattle. The Seattle Seahawks winning Super Bowl 60. We'll take you inside the goings ons of that parade. Also, the team that lost Super Bowl 60, Chad graph's going to join us and we're going to talk about what needs to happen in New England to have them get back to maybe Perhaps Super Bowl 61. What could happen with that roster? Chad and I are going to get into it. Also. Mike Jones is going to join us as well. He has a 18 teams that did not make the postseason. Well, he's going to rank them from 18 to number one on their chances of rebounding. Okay, we're going to start with the Seattle Seahawks and. And that parade that transpired there in Seattle. Now, I've covered the parade for NFL Network, I think, for seven or eight different times. And I've been with the Duck Boats with Tom Brady in New England. I've been doing it virtually actually the year Tampa Bay won it because of COVID I was in Kansas City when they won their first one and when they won other ones, I was there for all of them, sitting next to super fans like Eric Stonestreet or Paul Rudd as they broke everything down. Also in Philadelphia, in front of the art museum for their first super bowl ever. I was there. That was my hometown. The reason I bring all of this up is this. This parade means a lot to the fans of the NFL, and it's for a few reasons. And because of those experiences I just listed, here's the reason why. About 90% of NFL fans will never go to a game, ever of their favorite NFL team, or in any stadium, for that matter. So this is their opportunity to interact face to face with all of the players that they absolutely worship and love and the chance of having an opportunity to be on those streets and maybe shake hands or take a picture or get an autograph is really the closest thing that the vast majority of fans in the NFL, even though they're rabid in every sense of the word, will actually have in person with the guys that are on the football field. So this parade means so much to so many fans because it's their opportunity to be there and witness greatness in person. So with that said, here's Sam Darnold and maybe a couple other guys about what happened and what means so much to them about what they won in Seattle.
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F
Yeah, Twelves. I just want to say I've talked a lot this last week about belief. A lot of people you know, didn't believe in me, but it didn't matter because the ones that are close believed in me, including y'.
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A
All.
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F
I appreciate y' all so much. That short list also includes Jody Allen, John Schneider, Mike McDonald. Man, I appreciate the belief y' all had in me for signing me last this past year. And last, but certainly not least, these players, man, for believing in me. You know, I wouldn't be here without these guys. This defense, man. Hey, can we give it up one more time for this defense, Y'?
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C
All?
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F
Y' all knew I was gonna keep it short and sweet up here, man. But I want to introduce someone very special to this team, very special to this offense in general. He does a lot of the dirty work. You know, he doesn't. He doesn't get, you know, a ton of credit all the time, but he did catch a touchdown in the super bowl.
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C
All right.
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F
A.J. barner would like to come up here and say a couple words for y', all, if you don't mind.
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E
All right, Real quick, real quick, real quick, real quick, real quick. First of all, I just gotta say I love this city.
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C
Hey, and I got a few things for y'.
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A
All.
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E
First, we did not care. Second, we still don't care.
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C
Come on, man.
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E
One more, one more. Third, the Super Bowl Hawks live here. God bless. Go, Seahawks. We love you, Seattle.
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C
All right, Chad Graff joins us now. One of my wife's favorite people on this show, apparently. Hopefully, she. He's not number one, but hopefully I remain in the top spot. But you're up there. What's going on, man?
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A
Have you.
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C
Have you had a chance to breathe? Have you had a chance to settle in? This has been a wild ride. We didn't think this was going to happen with these New England Patriots.
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D
I will say it was my flight home from San Francisco after the super bowl that it hit me. I'm kind of looking ahead at the calendar, like, okay, we've got swim lessons here and dance on this day. And then it hit me like, oh, no. The combine is less than two weeks away. I can't be looking at this, right? There's no way the combine's less than two weeks away. But here we. I guess we'll sleep until then, and then we'll figure it out at the combine.
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C
Okay, what kind of dance are you into? Chat.
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D
I'm into carpool. I'm very good at playing carpool. And, hey, any neighbor kids gotta come. Come on, everybody. Let's go.
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C
Perfect.
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D
We'll play golden in the car. We'll Play K, Pop Demon, whatever you want. We're good. Okay.
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C
I thought you had dance lessons. Okay. That's what I would have loved to see.
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D
All right.
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C
When you go back and you look at what transpired throughout the course of the playoffs and in the super bowl, and we're going to push this forward. When you're watching Super Bowl Sunday, and I know you rewatch it, and that's what you do, dive into the film and everything, where is this team coming up short that you see as the first, maybe bullseye of the off season? For Mike Vrabel and company, two parts.
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D
And unfortunately for the Patriots, neither have, like, a simple, easy answer. The first part is obviously the offensive line. I think we have to start there. After the whole nation watched the Seahawks just destroy that offensive line. And some of it is credit to the Seahawks. Like, I don't want to diminish. They have an awesome front four. McDonald is an awesome schemer. Like, he just flat out out coached Josh McDaniels. And so I think some of that is the. The Seahawks are a great football team. And that is why the other part of it is this Patriots offensive line just has to get better. They had four new starters this year, and so they took a massive step, basically going from 32 in 2024 to, I don't know, maybe 16th best O line this year. But for Drake made a, like, totally hit his ceiling. For this team to get over the hump and to be, like, you know, legit super bowl contenders and have a shot at that thing, I think that's got to get up to, like, number 10. And then the other part is Drake May needs more weapons. Drake May had an awesome, awesome season. Stefon Diggs was better than I thought he would be. Keisha booty elevated in a way that I didn't expect. So those are plus signs, but it's not a total. Given that Diggs is going to be back, like, his contract is still up in the air. He's got guaranteed money coming in mid March. They, I think, could use somebody. But part of the problem with the Patriots is across several regimes, they've stunk at drafting wide receivers. I don't know why some franchises just can't do it. I spent a lot of time in Minnesota where they can just find wide receivers, receivers like, it's nothing. The Patriots can't do that. And so somehow you'd like to see them get something more for Drake May.
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C
Okay, let's break each one of those down. My good buddy Mitchell Schwartz had, and I Don't know if you watched like a 13 minute breakdown on Will Campbell and I thought it was outstanding. I think Mitch is also a number of years that I covered him in both Cleveland and Kansas City, one of the smarter in terms of football IQ type of tackles we've had and he played it at a very high level. Even though Mitch will tell you and joke with you, Chad, that like I wasn't the greatest athlete but man, did he give like guys like Vaughn Miller a lot of problems playing that right tackle spot. I thought he had a lot of really good points in terms of Will Campbell. The main point I wanted to say is this. He still thinks he is a left tackle. It is a timing issue with his feet and his hands. It's not the arm length that everybody is talking about. You know who commented on that? His former teammate Joe Thomas, who was the gold standard for offensive tackles and also agrees that it's not arm length, but it's some of that technique in terms of the hands and the feet matching up with one each other. They both said his sets are not terr. He's staying at left tackle. Right. So what else are we going to see on this offensive line? When you see it needs to get better, is Jared Wilson moving to center? Are we going to see some other shuffling? Let's just say because everybody's overly debated that he's staying at left tackle the rest of the line. What do we see?
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D
Well, just to add one other thing on Will Campbell, he's 21 years old. Like the majors were not supposed to be in the super bowl this year.
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C
Yeah.
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And was towards MCL. So 21 year old left tackle Jared Wilson was the left guard. 22 years old. He wasn't good. He played center in college and so I think they'll probably slide him to center. You probably cut Garrett Bradbury. Even though I think he bounced back and had a better season than maybe anticipated. Michael Wynn is going to stay at right guard. He's a really good right guard. And then the other question on the offensive line is, in addition to now needing a left guard right tackle, they signed Morgan Moses to be kind of a mentor and stabilize thing. Remember, the Patriots just needed stability on the O line. He brought that in a big way. He played better than they expected and he was an awesome mentor to a young O line. With Will Campbell, he just meant the world to those guys. But Morgan Moses is going to turn 35 this spring. He's got three young boys who brings him on the locker room a lot. I don't know whether he wants to be back. If he does, I think the Patriots will gladly have him back. But there's a very real chance that he just says hey, this has been an awesome career. Like I want to go spend some time with my kids, thank you very much and says goodbye. We'll see what he decides. But that would be another big spot if he does decide to retire. And even if he doesn't decide to retire, I think that's something that you look at in the draft and say, okay, our late first round pick, our late second round pick, like maybe we pick a right tackle to develop behind Morgan Moses and say hey, you're going to be our starter in 2027.
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C
Okay, I get that. I see it. You mentioned the weapons. Now also I will say this Will Campbell and being out there at the left tackle spot. I had this conversation with Chase on one of our other shows. You know what really would have helped a veteran left guard? Like people don't understand how the guy next to you matters so much that Joe Tunney did that for a lot of guys on that Chiefs young offensive line. Whether it was Creed Humphreys early development at the center spot, being next to a player like that helps you. Neither one of those guys had that. They were just both so young on that left side, learning and growing in their first season. You mentioned the weapons. I'm not sure if anybody had a worse super bowl week than Stefan Diggs. I heard a lot of things went down, but that's neither here nor there. In terms of on the field for 2026, everybody's kind of saying like they need to go and trade for A.J. brown. I don't see that personally when I just look at what Mike Frable and company who like AJ were looking when when they traded him going. We have some questions about the knee. Four more years on the knee. Do you want to bring him back? But I want to ask you because you know this better than me, how are they wired as an offense? Do they get a one that needs targets? Does that maybe be a detriment to the group? How does Josh McDaniels overall want this entire thing to work?
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D
Well, what's interesting is look back at Josh McDaniels whole career. We have a lengthy resume to go down and figure out how he likes things. The Patriots so rarely outside of of course 07 with Randy Moss, they so rarely have like a true number one wide receiver. They had some awesome tight ends over the course of years, including probably a first ballot guy in Gronkowski next year. So I kind of look at tight end as the spot where they might view that as a way to upgrade the weapons that are going to come for Drake May. Their tight ends, I think, were just okay this year. Hunter Henry's production fell off as the year went along. Austin Hooper had a dip in production and now he's a free agent. So if you want to look for a way that the Patriots can really upgrade, I think it's looking at some of the tight end stuff. And then at least for now, maybe he'll get a coordinator job. Thomas Brown is the team's passing game coordinator. Spent a lot of time with Sean McVay. McVay just kind of spammed those heavy tight end groupings this year. It wouldn't shock me if the Patriots go out and get like, not just one more tight end to add to the group, but maybe an early pick plus a free agent would be really interesting to see what they could do with like a Kyle Pitts who's going to be a free agent, kind of a mismatch guy that you can move all over. You could still use him as a second tight end on running play. So I look at tight end as much as wide receiver as a spot where they could upgrade.
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C
I like it. And you also have a young Kyle Williams that's growing that you drafted this past year. Then what kind of role does he have next year? You know what? I kind of likely. I kind of likely an Isaiah likely. That wouldn't be terrible either. There's some. There's. My point is there's some options in terms of free agency at tight ends. There's Dallas Goddard. You mentioned Pitts. There's Isaiah. Like, I mean, David Najoki. There's definitely pass catching tight ends that are an option. You're right. And we look at things in terms of. Of. Of weapons. Max Crosby. I know that they're a team that comes up obviously over and over again like some other ones, whether it's the Lions or the Bears or the Tigers. Oh my. But like, where do the Patriots fit in the likelihood of landing somebody like Max? And we know that he likes Rabel, but how much do they value the picks in what they're building? Do you have an idea on how they want to build this thing in New England moving forward?
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D
Six months ago, the answer would have been zero percent. Like, they were looking at this as, hey, we know this is going to be a rebuild. They came in and the cupboards were bare. And that's part of why they spent so much money in free agency last year, and it's part of why they didn't go pursuing a trade with like, Trey Hendrickson. But the super bowl run kind of changes everything. Like, you're almost in a similar spot to the Washington commanders of a year ago, and yet I even think you have a little bit more flexibility because a, you won your conference championship game, but B, they still have tons and tons of cap space. They have 11 draft picks. Like, there are ways that you can be aggressive. So I would have thought six months ago, totally insane to even contemplate a move like that. But now, especially because your first round pick is going to be 31st overall and that weight of giving up, you know he's going to cost at least two first round picks. That weight is probably less if you're giving up a 31st, though, who knows what else you may have to throw in since your first round pick is the 31st. But I think for the first time, you can actually contemplate a move like that because you might feel like, hey, we were in the Super Bowl. Like, we were probably the third best team in the NFL this year behind Seahawks and Rams. So I think you feel good about all of that. And Max Crosby, like, can you picture a player who better fits Mike Vrabel? I was about to lose this, honestly. Oh, he is such a, like, culture fit of the stuff that he does. Pushing Mahomes around and kind of giving him a hard time and begging like, don't you dare take me off the field. And the Raiders, like, dude, we stink. We're trying to get the number one pick. Of course we want to take you off the field, but like, that mentality with a Mike Vrabel, can you picture some of the hugs that those two dudes would be given outside the locker room? Like, I mean, almost 600 pounds of pure muscle just colliding.
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C
There you go. Paint a picture for us, Chad. Listen, watch your back. Ben Jones. Mike Brable may have a new favorite player that he absolutely adores. Well, how do you think New England, the region, would react if they did swing the trade for Max Crosby?
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D
I think there's a lot of fans right now being a little bit tepid in part because of Washington and saying, look, we just saw what Washington did. They went all in before they should have. They got too old too fast and it didn't work. We don't want to make the same mistakes as that. So I think that is a fair response. But if they actually got Max Crosby and all of a sudden you're talking about like major star power with Drake May on offense, Matt Crosby on defense. Like that would be exciting if nothing else. I don't know how it would work because generally when you're giving up multiple first round picks, it doesn't work super great. But man, that would be so, so fun the way that he plays. He's 26 years old or 28 years old. He's got, he's got good football still ahead of him big time.
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C
And I always look at, I know a lot of people like to pair edge rushers together, right? Like whether you have like Daniel Hunter and you have Will Anderson and that's great. And they're always in Detroit looking somebody to run alongside and opposite of Aiden Hutchinson. You see the two guys in Denver. But to me I always love when you have a guy on the interior and a guy on the edge when it's Milton Williams and Max Crosby. Like to me that those guys playing off each other and putting offenses in binds is always fascinating. All right, before we go, and you mentioned up Washington several times and that is true. I think they're kind of a blueprint right now for how do you balance this from going all in and how do you manage all of your contracts. But also there's an aspect of what we've seen go on in terms of the coordinators in Washington. Not that that's a major issue here, but there is a bit of an interesting spot at the defensive coordinator. What did they do because of the unique situation that they were in this past season? And then you saw somebody step into a role and Zach did a really, really good job filling in as that defensive coordinator.
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D
It's such a tough situation and probably the toughest question that Mike Vrabel is going to have to grapple with in his time as a Patriots coach so far, which is on the one hand, Terrell Williams is his guy. Like as a head coach you need somebody who's going to tell you the truth and talk honestly to you. And that for so long was Terrell Williams. And so he's been this awesome guy for Mike Vrabel. He, he dealt with fighting cancer all season, has been cleared of that. And so like that's incredible. And can you really lose your job because you were dealing with cancer? Like that doesn't seem super fair. But then you flip to the other side and Zach Kur was amazing. Like the reason the Patriots made it to the super bowl, not the success that they had in the regular season, but the reason that they were in the super bowl was not the offensive Drake May. It was the game planning that Zach Core did all along. Like he just destroyed that Chargers O line, which of course was weak. Then he went in. CJ Stroud looked totally flummoxed against that group. You had the Jared Situm game of course impacted by the snow. But then even in the super bowl you've got Sam Darnold and JSN and like a high powered offense coming off of scoring a bunch of points against the Rams and he kind of befuddled them. And now in fairness and Seahawks just didn't have to shoot themselves in the foot and they were going to win with the way their defense was playing. But can you really tell Zach, hey, you were so freaking good in the playoffs, that defense was rolling. Why don't you go coach the linebackers and just take a back seat for a bit? That also doesn't really seem fair. So I don't know. There's not a good answer, I think for Mike Vrabel.
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C
Do you think he could make Troll Williams just like, hey, you're going to be the assistant head coach now and you're going to be like my right hand man for everything because is that a possibility that that could be thrown out there?
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D
This is my uneducated guess is that they go with something like that because you don't want to like totally demote Terrell Williams, but you only coach the defensive line. That would be weird. But I don't think you want to take it away from Zach and the momentum that he's built. And so I think maybe you try to find some sort of role for Terrell Williams where he's still around the guys, he's still helping Mike Vrabel, he's still super involved. But you continue the momentum that you have on defense because that defense is rolling and they played well in the Super Bowl.
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C
They really did. I thought the secondary was great. They got young safeties, they got Christian Gonzalez. That's another one that they had this offseason. By the way, is that a payday for Gonzo, I think, right?
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D
Yes. They got tons of cap space right now, but I don't think they can spend it all because you got to re sign and extend Christian Gonzalez. And then next year the big, big money deal comes and like here come the bridge trucks back it up. Drake May was about to reset the quarterback market. Obviously we'll see what happens next year, but that's going to be a hefty contract.
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C
Love it. Can you picture Drake, by the way, in a couple of years. I don't know, rolling up in like a Lamborghini. Like, I just can't picture it like at all. Like, you know, like thinking the KitchenAid.
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D
Mixers in his wife's videos for business when they've got 70 million a year.
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C
It'S going to be fantastic. Chad, you're the best. Enjoy dance and swim lessons. We'll catch up and maybe we'll grab a beer at the combine. How about that?
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D
That sounds good. Thanks for having me.
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C
All right, brother. Good seeing you. All right, coming up, we have Mike Jones joining me to talk about the teams that did not make the postseason. There were 18 of them. He ranked them. We're going to go through the top five next on Scoop City.
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C
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B
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E
It was good. It was busy. It was crazy. It always feels like a marathon and A sprint at the same time, you know, kind of like the 400, you know, it's like they're sprinting and it's for a long distance, you know. Yeah, but it was good. I know some people thought the game was boring. For me, it felt like a boxing match where you had one guy who was a little bit better and he was just trying to set up his opponent for one mistake so he could land that. That knockout punch. And eventually it was that turnover, that fumble in Patriots territory and then that set him up to score and you know, that was it. But yeah, I know it wasn't a crazy, electrifying shootout, but still an intriguing game. Intriguing campaign for Seattle.
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C
Yeah, for sure. You know, if you would have told me though, Jackson, Smith and Jigba would add that type of production in the super bowl and it would still be that dominant of a performance. You're going okay. All right, Seattle, you're about as complete as. As we can see out there. And we're talking about teams that made the postseason. Let's talk about the ones that didn't it again. There were eight teams. Mike ranked them all from 18 to number one. We're not going to go through all 18. You might want to find out. Let's see, where is your favorite team? Where's the Colts? Where are the Vikings, Cowboys? I think some good teams that didn't make this list, but we're going to go through the top five, and we're going to start with number five, Mike, and that is the Kansas City Chiefs on your list at 6 and 11. They are 5. For what reason?
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E
They are 5 because of just the fact that, yes, I know they had a down year last year, but they have a strong base. If you have a strong foundation, you're able to kind of bounce back and weather some storms a little more quickly than some other teams. Just like New England was a good example. You know, they had two bad years. Mike Vrabel comes in, he's a good, strong leader. They still had deficiencies, but because of his leadership, they were able to bounce back more quickly. I think the same thing with the Chiefs. The core is still there. Yes, they have to get younger. Yes. Patrick Mahomes has got to get healthy. You know, they're hoping that he's going to be. But I think that they still will have what it takes to be back in the mix, even though this past year was disappointing for them. Again, they got to get some more explosive guys on offense, more, you know, pass rushers. But they have Andy Reid they have Spagnola and they have Patrick Mahomes. They will be able to be back in the mix, I believe.
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C
Yeah, I think it's a really good pick. I think this is a good spot for them. I'm interested in the return of Eric B. Enemy. Talking to some people around the league this past week, it was. Maybe we stalled out for a few different reasons as an offense in Kansas City, and EB might be able to change some of those. And one of the things that I was told was maybe there were opportunities where Travis Kelce should have been still the main target or the priority within the progression in some of these times. And maybe they moved a little too far away from. I'm interested when you said explosive players around Mahomes, the right type of players around Patrick, I'm curious if this group is the right group around him. You know what I mean? Like, he's such a feel player. So I. I'm interested in the cap. That's a. That's a big one that they got to figure out, but obviously.
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E
Right.
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C
Everybody knows how to do mathematical gymnastics within the NFL. All right, number four. I like this squad. I'm not gonna lie. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers, you have them eight and nine, man. First half of the season, Baker was.
- [27:52]
E
Like an mvp, right? Yeah. And it looked like they were well on their way to winning the division once again. And then, you know, they were weathering all those injuries early, and then as they started to get guys back, it was almost like the chemistry. They really struggled to regain what they had. I do think that part of it might have been offensive play calling. You know, they had a new offensive coordinator again, you know, because they continue to see guys like, you know, Dave Canales and Liam Cohen, you know, graduate on the head coaching positions. Obviously. Todd Bowles has cleaned house with his offensive and defensive and special teams coordinators and is hoping that he now has the right mix. They do have an offensive coordinator that Baker Mayfield is very familiar with from his little career resurrection with the Rams. And so I think that if you have healthy guys around him again, their offensive line, again, was duct taped together. The wide receiver position was duct taped together. If they're healthy, I think that they can get back in this. Now, look, yes, the door is open because you have Carolina that, you know, had a surprisingly good season, and, you know, I find Atlanta intriguing, but I think that Tampa Bay has a good chance of getting back in the mix. And so that's why I put them at number four.
- [29:10]
C
Yeah, I like them at number four. I really do. I mean, because we've seen just, you know, a season ago what they are capable of. And then you meant like, you know, they're capable of winning that division easily. We've seen them play at a high level. I think you're right. The offensive coordinator shuffling has just finally came to a head, and now Zach Robinson comes in there. The one thing that I would add to that, too, is talking to some people down there. Baker Mayfield just was not healthy the second half of the season. Just so banged up along with the. You mentioned that offensive line, and it was interesting talking to people there. Mike. What? I'm fascinated to see what happens, but they were like, we're stoked, man, because we have Baker healthy. Mecca Buka learned all three positions as a rookie. Godwin, we think, is going to be back to himself. And then the interesting one was. And then we still have Mike. And I'm like, still have Mike? What does that mean? Like, is he. Is he coming back? Okay, let's see. But those are some weapons, you know, and if you have Chris Godwin back to the. What we're used to seeing in Chris Godwin, I think they can do anything really offensively. And, man, their running back, by the way, if you ask around the league, it's like, that dude can play, man, and he was hurt and banged up Bucky Irvin like crazy. So I like that squad. All right, number three. This is the team that everybody, I think, has their eye on in 2026. I'll give my reason why, but that's the Cincinnati Bengals finished at 6:11. Obviously, Joe Burrow missing that jig chunk of time changed the course of their season. Why are they ahead of the previous two that we just went over?
- [30:29]
E
Well, I have them there just because of the fact of, you know, having Burrow back healthy is going to be a big thing for them. We saw they can put up points with anybody, you know. You know, they even put up points with Joe Flacco. They just couldn't stop anybody. But, you know, it kind of had some, you know, some turmoil and everything like that in the off season with the uncertainty with Hendrickson. And so I do think, though, that if they're healthy again, you know, we were wondering, okay, is Zach Taylor going to survive this? He does. And so, you know, we'll see what happens now. But I think that they should be in the mix. And when you look at the rest of the division, you know, the door is open, you know, and nobody, you know, is a slam dunk. Everybody's going through change, except for them. And so I think the continuity should be a good thing for Cincinnati.
- [31:19]
C
Yeah, that's a great point. And we know that, you know, when he's at his best, there's plenty of people, honestly, that think Joe Burrow is the best quarterback on the planet. I think there's an argument for probably the Four Horsemen of the apocalypse, I call them. Mike, obviously, between Burrow and Lamar and Josh and Mahomes, but he's certainly in that conversation when he's playing at his best. What I'm interested in this is what I wanted to ask you. I think everybody's kind of looking at this team in 2026, because you mentioned it. Zach Taylor survived 20. This seems to me similar to an opportunity to coach Josh Allen like there was in this last head coaching cycle. Would there be an opportunity to coach Joe Burrow? What kind of appeal do you think this job could be if they don't bounce back and make the playoffs in 2026? When you look at Joe Burrow sitting there in his prime and Jamar Chase and T. Higgins under contract, well, oh.
- [32:09]
E
It'S a huge, huge attraction right there. Because, look, if you're going to win in this league, you have to have a quarterback. And this isn't just a quarterback, like you said, it's a quarterback that ranks among the best out there. You know, the only knock on him is that injuries have diminished what he's able to do. But we've seen when he's healthy, what he's able to do. He's got amazing weapons. This is a really, really attractive job. If this job were to come open.
- [32:37]
C
Yeah, that's the thing. But I want to push Zach Taylor out the door. I mean, his side of the ball, even when Joe Flacco was there, was putting up points. I mean, that shows you what type of offensive coach Zach Taylor is. Let's just see if. If they open up the pocketbook a little bit, see if they do something in free agency. I don't think Trey Hendricks is staying. Maybe they go and get, you know, Jalen Phillips or something like that. I'd like to see on the defensive side if they do anything. All right, here's a team that was just fascinating to watch in 2025. They lose both their coordinators, but they're right there in the mix in an unbelievably competitive division. That is the Detroit Lions, who finished at 9 and 8. But I mentioned the division. I think this is a good spot for a team that we still think is really good. Right.
- [33:16]
E
No, I think so. And look, they, it wasn't just the coordinators, which I do think that there was a little more growing pains than what Dan Campbell expected. But, you know, they had injuries on their offensive line. You know, they had like free agency, departures, retirement, you know, so they never were able to quite get right. You know, I really kind of still scratch my head about the hiring of the offensive coordinator and Drew Petzing to, to be, you know, I, I just don't know. I mean, he wasn't great as the offensive coordinator in Cleveland. He did get some things out of Jacoby Brissette in that offense, but it wasn't. I, I kind of felt like Marvin Harrison Jr. Should have been more impactful. And I don't know how much of that is on Drew Petzing or not, but, you know, we'll see what happens. But this is a strong team. They believe in running the football. They've got a great tandem. You know, I think that, you know, they do a good job of drafting. We'll see them address their weaknesses in the draft. And I think that they should be back in the mix again. This division is tough for sure, but they should be in the thick of things.
- [34:23]
C
Yeah, they really should. And then you mentioned the other spot that they were just thrilled with injuries was that secondary. And it was just like, oh my gosh. And then when Brian Branch went down at the end of the year, you're like, well, there goes our chess piece back there. And it was just kind of like piecing things together. And maybe Drew, I don't know, like, he is more of a guy that works well with a timing quarterback and a rhythm quarterback that really wasn't Kyler Murray. I think that's why we saw a little bit of better play from, from Jacoby Brissette working with Drew maybe. And that is obviously what Jared Goff is, I do think, and let me just throw this curveball at you, what do you think this contract will be like for Jameer Gibbs? I mean, I, I think this is an absolute megastar in the waiting right here.
- [35:04]
E
Yeah, yeah. No, I, and I, I don't even know what the dollar amount is. But again, they, he is, I agree with you. He's a star. You've got to take care of him. He's such an important piece. It would be a huge drop off, you know, so they, they. And it's, and it's great. To me, I love seeing the running backs getting taken care of, you know, right between him, Bajan Robinson, you know, Saquon you know, we're seeing a revival. We thought that maybe these guys were becoming irrelevant, but in the last several years, we're seeing how important and how versatile they are. Now remember, you know, we're growing up. There was always a third down back that would come in just to catch.
- [35:39]
C
The pass out there.
- [35:40]
E
Now these guys can do everything, you know, and so it's awesome to see. But yeah, they're going to have to open up the checkbook for him for sure.
- [35:47]
C
Yeah, certainly some decisions to be made there. Also, I'd love to see a running mate for Aiden Hutchinson in some sense, you know what I mean? Run opposite of him up front I think would be a great thing to see there in Detroit. But it's. They're in that spot where it's like we drafted really well, we put together a really good team. Now we have some difficult decisions to make on some of these guys. Can't sign everybody, but I do think they're still right there in the mix. Certainly. Okay, number one, drum roll, please. Nope, don't want to do that. Baltimore Ravens, 8, 9. They are number one on your list and they are going through a head coaching change. John Harbaugh out after 18 years, but you still have them at number one.
- [36:24]
E
Mike, why I do they have the most. One of the most, if you want to say dynamic quarterbacks in the league. I think that things have gotten stale there, you know, with Todd Monkins offense, their defense, you know, they didn't recover from the loss of Mike McDonald. I think as a whole the franchise needed a jolt and it was surprising to see John Harbaugh go. But I think that it's going to be wind up being a good thing for them. I know that, you know, Jesse Mentor is a bright defensive mind and you know, he's going to get that defense fixed. But the most important relationship is the relationship he has with Lamar Jackson. And I know that he and Lamar have been talking a lot already, working on their relationship, you know, and that's something. That's a good sign. They have a really young offensive coordinator, you know, we'll see what happens. But maybe that means creativity. They've got to go into either the draft free agency and get him some more dynamic and reliable weapons. But I do think that when you look at this team, the roster as a whole, and obviously this quarterback, they can be right in the thick of things. If Lamar hadn't gotten hurt in the middle of last year, you know, who knows what happens? Maybe they, you know, squeak into the playoffs. They just barely Missed it. And so that's why I think, yeah, they're going to be back in the thick of things, and it'd just be a matter of how far they can go.
- [37:49]
C
Yeah. If you, if anybody remembers that fourth quarter against Pittsburgh at the end of the season, I mean, this guy can do things that nobody else almost seems that they can do. I think he has the highest career quarterback rating in the history of the NFL and more rushing yards than any quarterback in the history of the NFL, I think so, like, this guy can do anything. And I think you're right. I think when I talked to people there, it was, well, if he doesn't practice during the week, it's pretty tough to play on Sunday and get the sync, you know, the synchronization of our offense. What do you know about Declan Doyle? Like what, what do you. What's your take there? Obviously, spending some time with Ben Johnson. You hope just, you know, he rubbed his elbows with him enough that some of the magic sauce now brings, you know, comes with him to Baltimore.
- [38:28]
E
Yeah. You know, and that's the thing is, like, we're seeing these offensive coordinators get younger and younger as they go, you know, but having sat under probably one of the most creative and offensive minds and best game callers, it's going to be interesting to see what he takes from that. They feel good about him. You know, we look at this head coaching, the head coach is young, the offensive coordinator is young. And, you know, we'll see it's sometimes in ways it feels too young. You know, does he have the experience as a play caller? Because he hasn't been a play caller. So what are the growing pains he's going to go through? You know, I know every offensive offense coordinator you talk to, whether they are the play caller or not, they say, or even quarterbacks, coaches, you can talk to them is they say that they're. They're calling plays in their head, they're going through the scenarios. But there's a difference between playing, you know, the armchair quarterback, you know, oh, I would have done this, than actually doing it when those, you know, the bullets are flying and everything. So it's going to be interesting again. His relationship with Lamar is going to be very important, too, because he has to be on the same page figuring out, hey, this is what you like to do. This is how we can elevate you. And I think also, you know, there were times you could tell whether it was Harbaugh or Monkin, it seemed like they were really trying to almost be very careful to make sure they maintain their relationship with Lamar. Maybe could have used a little more accountability. Like you said, you don't practice a lot of Wednesdays. You know, is, you know, is that because he's so banged up, could he have practiced at times? I just think there's going to be a new energy. I think that, you know, maybe a little bit of a wake up call and you know, re energize Lamar is what we might see with, you know a young offensive, you know, play caller new offense instead of things that seem like they had gotten stale and you know, an energetic head coach that said that everybody says is great at building relationships and motivating.
- [40:20]
C
Mike sticking around here on Scoop City because we want to break down what happened with these 10 head coaching openings. Were they the right hires? Was there some aspect of this group of candidates that was overlooked? Mike and I are going to break that down next on Scoop City.
- [40:36]
A
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A
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- [42:26]
C
My opinion felt like Jesse Minter was the best hire of this cycle. What was your take on the cycle itself? And I think I want that opinion because you, you do have the, the Ravens at number one here. I, I thought Jesse was maybe the best hire of the cycle.
- [42:42]
E
I think that he was right up there. I was a little bit. A little bit surprised at the way that this whole cycle played out.
- [42:51]
C
Very much so.
- [42:52]
E
I thought that, yes, Jesse Mentor had a really good chance there. I almost wondered if they would do something to surprise us, like going with a Brian Flores. And I wondered if Brian Flores would be the kind of guy to give Lamar a little bit of. More of an edge. But as I talk around, you know, just the things that appealed to them about Jesse Mentor, it felt like that really was their guy. It wasn't like something that they were throwing darts out there. So I think that he was good. I think that he, you know, you're coming in and, yes, you're new, but he understands the culture. He's been there before, you know, and so I think that will help him. You know, we'll see about a lot of these other, you know, there were some underwhelming hires. I thought that Harbaugh was good for the Giants. You know what they need, Salah, you know. Yeah, what they need, you know, a guy with credibility, a guy that's a good overall leader. You know, he is not an offensive guy, he's not a defensive guy, but he's going to have them playing hard. He's going to be good for those young players. As a whole, though, this coaching cycle was just. It was disappointing when you have guy as talented as Brian Flores or Vance Joseph and neither one of those guys get head coaching jobs. And, you know, I know that the league and, you know, Roger Goodell has talked about the importance of diversity, and they want to see that, but obviously the owners still, you know, don't see it. But the whole offensive coaching pipeline is very white. It's not diverse. And that's why we did not see some of these offensive minds wind up getting opportunities as head coaches. And then some of the defensive guys who got hired again weren't as qualified, weren't as a established as Vance Joseph or Brian Flores were. We'll see. I think it was two years ago, in the last two years or something like 18 head coaches had been hired and only four still in their jobs. I think that we're going to see another quick cycle through for Some of these guys here, unfortunately.
- [44:45]
C
Yeah. Geez. I don't know what else VJ could do, honestly, considering everybody knows what transpired in the first time around. He was a head coach really, having just no authority at all, and the growth that he's had since then. I throw another name in the mix there. I don't know a single team that interviewed Anthony Weaver that didn't love Anthony Weaver, like, right in. In this entire cycle. But it doesn't seem like some of these guys. And maybe it's just because I think owners have a tendency to look at what every other owner is doing and going, well, maybe I should do the same thing, because they're doing that. I think it's hard to break the mold. But I think we're mentioning some really talented names in terms of coaches, strong leaders.
- [45:22]
E
I mean, like, again, anybody you talk to about Anthony Weaver, talk about the relationships he builds, the. The way that he can connect and lead, and that's really what a head coach is. It's. Yes, you know, we got to be good with X's and O's, but can you walk into a room and get 53 guys on the same page and all pulling in the same direction? And Anthony Weaver, from everything that anybody's ever told me, he's a guy who can do that. But for whatever reason, he was not appealing to some of these. You know, I mean, I. Again, Mike McCarthy. I know he's from Pittsburgh, and I haven't heard that.
- [45:55]
C
I haven't heard that he's from Pittsburgh.
- [45:57]
E
You know, uninspiring hire. Mike LaFleur. Nice guy. He's not his brother. You know, I really have questions about that hire there as well. You know, I mean, if you wanted a defensive guy, because, you know, now we're, you know, in that trend of the anti. Sean McVay, the Mike McDonald's.
- [46:15]
C
Yeah.
- [46:15]
E
Jeff Halfley. You know, I mean, you know, it just interesting to me. A lot of these things were interesting. We'll see how they play out. But I'm kind of skeptical.
- [46:26]
C
Yeah. I'll just say this. Every time I've talked to Anthony Weber, I'm like, I don't play in the NFL, but I would play for you, Anthony Weaver, every time I speak to him. But. Awesome, Mike. Appreciate it, man. We'll be talking this offseason. Hopefully you come back and. And chat with me. How about that?
- [46:41]
E
Hey, thanks for having me, man. This was fun.
- [46:43]
C
Awesome. Another outstanding episode of Conversations. I'm not gonna lie. I gotta talk to Mike forever about what's going on in the NFL this offseason and what we think about these head coaching hires, what we think about the way these teams are constructed and how ownership and general managers are actually putting them together. And there's gonna be a lot of that this entire offseason, these teams getting put together. And we'll take it all down right here on Scoop City. Wanna thank Chad Graf for joining us. Wanna thank Mike Jones for joining us. And we'll be back next week with more Scoop City about what's around the corner. How about the combine? Let's go.
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A
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