← Scoop City: Inside The NFL
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A
Did I talk too much? Can't I just let it go?
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Take a breath. You're not alone. Let's talk about what's going on. Counseling helps you sort through the noise with qualified professionals and online therapy makes it convenient. See if it's for you. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy and let life feel better. Are you going to a game this weekend?
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A
No, I'm going to. I'm going to soak them all in.
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B
Okay, good. All right.
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A
Well, I sometimes like this. I love going to games and I love like working a stadium and the sideline and all that different stuff. But then sometimes when I'm home and I know a lot of coaches in the postseason are watching, but they're out of the postseason. Those test exchange, right, are always super fun because they watch the game obviously better than we do. I love hearing their point of view going like, hey, this is such as I'm like, oh, wow. Oh. Welcome into a monster Wednesday edition of Scoop City. I'm James Palmer. Don't forget to like and subscribe because there is a lot coming your way from the Athletics senior NFL insider Diana Rossini. She's got it all. She's got the goods. And we're going to break it all down for you today. We're also going to have Dan Duggan joining us talking about the giant side of things. Where is their head coaching search now that John Harbaugh is available? John Harbaugh is available because he has been fired by the Ravens. We'll talk to Diana about everything that transpired in Baltimore and what's next for Harbaugh, as well as Jeff Zrebrik will join us, who covers the Ravens brilliantly for us, and he'll give us his angle as well about what is next in Baltimore. Diana, you're working the phones now. You've never stopped. Those fingers are probably raw by now, as you're. Because you've always been a single index finger typer.
- [02:54]
B
Unbelievable, right? It's like the bup bum. It's not a secret that I do because nobody cares, but I. I do find it very concerning that I'm not a better texter when that's what I'm supposed to be doing. But.
- [03:06]
A
But you said text fast. I get them fast from you.
- [03:09]
B
I. I'm a great responder. I'm a bad texter. Right. Like, you have to kind of speak, Diana, like, you're going to get bad spellings, horrible grammar. Sometimes I actually do reflect on some of the things I write to people over text. I'm like, I wonder if they're like, how is this woman a writer for the athletic? But yeah, somehow with. I'm just better on a keyboard.
- [03:28]
A
Text is different. You're better on a keyboard. I get it. There was a period of time back in the day when Vaughn Miller played for the Broncos that he only responded to my text messages with emojis, and I had to decode, like, what he was trying to send me in anything. There was never a letter. It was just different things. And he loved doing it, like, figure this out, jp and it'd be just, like, nonsense, and I'd have fun.
- [03:48]
B
That's funny.
- [03:48]
A
Figure out what Vaughn was kind of sending me. Okay.
- [03:50]
B
I had a story, James, years ago where this was, like, the Washington days, and it was between Robert Griffin III and Kirk Cousins that we didn' know who was going to start. And one of the players was like, man, I'm not. I'm not leaking that. You know, like, you'll just have to wait. I'm like, you don't have to, like, text it to me. Just send me, like, an emoji. Which I don't know why that worked, but he's like, oh, good call. So he sent me a fireball, and I'm like, does that mean Robert or Kirk? Robert. Like, it was. So I sent back question mark and. And he sent me a funny emoji, and I was able to figure it out that it was Kirk.
- [04:22]
A
Oh, God.
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C
I guess.
- [04:23]
A
Yeah. The fireball might be. We're blowing it up here.
- [04:26]
B
Yeah, yeah, I know.
- [04:27]
A
There's so many.
- [04:28]
B
We're in no emoji Z, guys.
- [04:30]
A
Come on. Yeah, we're not doing emojis. Even if the man himself, John Harbaugh, put an emoji in his statement as he was departing from the Baltimore Ravens. See how that all fit together. Wow. John Harbaugh.
- [04:41]
B
Very good, James.
- [04:42]
A
I appreciate that. Good transition, JP John Harbaugh let go by owner Steve Boscotti. And we're going to make this crystal clear for you listening that this was not a mutual parting of the ways. That's very easy to see from both the Raven statement and. And John Harbaugh's statement. This was that the owner, Steve Boschotti, has decided to move on from John Harbaugh after 18 seasons and now is looking for a new head coach. I do think quickly, even though this happened yesterday and we're speaking Wednesday afternoon, Diana, the way this transpired to me is fascinating. What can you glean on kind of how this went down? Because a lot of people that should know did not know when it happened.
- [05:26]
B
Yeah, people in the building did not know because they were told by John Harbaugh that they were going to be okay. There was an understanding all day on Tuesday that Todd Monken and Zach Orr and John Harbaugh were all going to return. And everyone felt really good about where things were at, because Monday night there was a meeting held and a conversation and conversations were had were. Everyone just went to bed thinking, all right, like, time to turn the page. The next chapter begins. And meantime, while that was happening, ownership was making calls to a lot of different people in the Ravens organization, people on the staff, players, to just try to get an idea of what's been going on, what are some of the problems, what are the things we like, what are some things we don't like? And when Steve Bushadi sat down with John Harbaugh, and from what I understand, this wasn't some marathon meeting. You know, sometimes you hear these meetings take, like, hours and they're stressful. They take lunch breaks. Like, it wasn't that long of a meeting. It was a pretty understood decision made by Bashadi that he wants to go in a different direction, that he felt it was time. And a lot of this has connections to the way this offense was going to Lamar Jackson, to what they wanted the future to be. And there's also a part of this where some people there just felt like change was needed. So I almost think it's a bit of a storm of a lot of different factors. And you have perspectives from players, you have perspectives from the coaches, you have perspective from John and from ownership here. And so hopefully we're gonna be able to touch on. On all sides here to get the full story.
- [07:08]
A
Yeah, that's the fascinating part. And to really take you inside that room. Diana's exactly right about how it transpired. And then my understanding is that, like, some people in other buildings around the NFL knew before, the vast majority of the people within the Ravens organization knew, which is a fascinating way for it to spread through media outlets and different.
- [07:28]
B
Ways that the information spread like wildfire quickly. And the decision makers at the top of Baltimore obviously knew immediately, but the rest of the staff was not informed until later. So then you have to figure, you know, between agents and just conversations with other teams, and then the beginning of the next chapter of this, who's going to be the next coach? Things just kept. Things were just moving quick. So from what I understand, that's kind of why that happened. And then you have just the reaction today. And I think it was. We talked last year, what was the biggest stunner at the time? It was Raheem, right? Like, this was a stunner. Just because I don't think anyone really truly expected the Ravens to fire John Harbaugh. It would be more like John needed to hang it up or step aside for a little bit bit, or it's just some changes, make some changes on the staff. But there's a lot to this, and this has been a complicated year for Baltimore with things that involved the health of Lamar Jackson. Obviously, we. A lot of people read the story from the Baltimore sun on some of the things that they've. That been going on behind the scenes about Lamar. And I'm actually currently working just trying to get an idea of what really happen in the locker room with the players, not so much the coaching staff, of how they see it, and even just having a few conversations before we hopped on here, it's really hard to find someone that does not love Lamar Jackson in that locker room. I know a lot of his habits have been discussed publicly about, like. And if you haven't heard before, there are some people who don't believe that he cares for himself the way we've heard about, like, a Tom Brady before, you know, and the way we've seen in a lot of those quarterback documentaries that Netflix. Netflix did, where you see Kirk Cousins grinding and going through all these different things to stay young and stay fit. And. And. And from what I understand, like, Lamar definitely is not one of these, like, I must take care of everything and my health kind of people. He's a natural athlete, but in terms of his focus for the game, there's a lot of things that he does and a lot of things that he says quietly to lead that locker room, to make them know, like, look, this is how things go. James, you've been in the chief soccer room before and like, Patrick has got the best grip of any quarterback currently, probably of any locker room. Right?
- [09:56]
A
Like, that's true.
- [09:56]
B
Patrick's not walking around talking to every player. He doesn't do that. He doesn't have to do that anymore. Right. It's like he's Patrick Mahomes and he leads by example. And you just respect what he does and you do and you stay in line because he's Patrick Mahomes. Lamar is a little bit more interactive with guys. He hangs out, he talks. There's like couches in the middle of the Ravens locker room. Like, he's been seen there tons of time talking to rookies. Like, he's really involved with his teammates and likes them and they like him. And I think a lot of the problems this year really stem from some differences between him. How we wanted the offense to be with Todd Monken. It's not like Todd isn't like this super player coach. He's really bright and really smart with offenses. And I think there may have been a little rub there that it wasn't all coming together the way they wanted it to come together on offense, specifically.
- [10:52]
A
Yeah, that's a really good point. And I love that you took us inside that locker room. I'll do the same thing. Talking to players and talking to former players that have been there. There's a way that Steve Bischati does this, right, Diana? He is very trusted. It's why it's one of the best organizations in sports. And I'll get to that. And we'll get to that in terms of this job as an opening. But the way that I'm always told by players is that he is very good at quietly going around. He doesn't meddle. He lets the people he's hired do their jobs, certainly. But he is very good at going and having conversations with different people in the building, Players specifically. Hey, what's kind of shoot me straight. What's the vibe right now? What's the feeling in the locker room? That had been going on to my understanding, for some time. So when we all say that this is also, and I want to clarify this, some people come out and report that, you know, we all should have saw this coming. This is because for a while Steve Bishotti's been doing blank, blank, blank. He keeps all of that though to himself. He gathers all of that information, he puts it all together for himself and he comes to a conclusion. So yes, he's been working behind the scenes to my understanding for some time about what's going on, what's the feel. He's very good at getting that information very quietly and then again keeping it to himself. And again, probably exactly why Diana reported it wasn't the longest meeting. He had come to a conclusion about what he wanted to do moving forward with John Harbaugh. Before we get to John, Diana, I want to talk about this job specifically. You mentioned Lamar and the type of player he is. That player does not come along very often. That is a unicorn type player. That is a two time mvp. That is a big part of why this job is very, very appealing. But I heard from an executive on another team yesterday after Harbaugh was let go and it said this is the best run organization in all of professional sports. That's the way other teams think of the Ravens, from the way they treat their employees to the facilities to the general manager. Everything that in there from owner Steve Boschotti, how coveted is this job and when's the last time we saw a job like this Diana available. That's this really has the ability to check almost every box.
- [13:01]
B
A couple items on that. First, just the fact that John Harbaugh's name is in this cycle just absolutely knocked down the dominoes in multiple markets, in, in multiple organizations and directions that teams were going shifted. There is there were tons of discussions with teams going on as late as 10:30 Eastern last night from teams that have a candidate list that were zeroing in already even before the interviews, kind of just knowing the direction they want to go in. And then John hops in on this and it's okay now, not even now. What, but what are we going to do to make sure that this is the place he wants to be? We've, we've talked on the show so much about there's no Ben Johnson in this cycle. There's no Mike very well. Like, well, we got him but we got, we got the golden goose now. And look, Kevin Stefansky is also another big name out there. Like let's, it's like we forgot that happened. By the way, that happened two days ago. It feels like 50 years ago, you know, but Stefanski met with the New York Giants for dinner last Night. He's meeting with them currently at this moment. We'll see what shakes there. But from what I understand, Harbaugh really likes the Giants. They really like him. There's going to be a meeting, an interview set up. They're. They're hoping for the weekend, if not early next week, to. To get him in the building because they're basically clearing the decks. Like, we got Stefanski now let's get him here. So he's got to have. He's gonna have his choice, is he?
- [14:43]
A
For everyone, honestly.
- [14:47]
B
So before we hopped on this show, I was talking to a very popular and accomplished player about the future in the coaching position. Just what do guys like? What do they want? And he made a good point that you're seeing. A lot of the successful teams have a former player energy to it versus the old school teacher. Like, let's just use Sean Payton as the example of the old school teacher. Even though didn't. Sean played in college, though, didn't.
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A
He didn't play like Eastern Illinois. Eastern Illinois quarterback. Same as I believe Tony Ripo.
- [15:26]
B
No one around the league is going, oh my gosh, Sean Payton was an incredible.
- [15:29]
A
And I think Jimmy G went there too. Yeah, quarterback you. Eastern Illinois quarterback, you.
- [15:34]
B
Yes. But now you look at some of the guys now that are having success, right? Like d', Amigo, right? Like, you don't question anything d' Amigo does because he knows he gets it. He connects. Dan Campbell connects. Mike Rabel connects. So his point, look, this is just like fodder. This isn't like me reporting. It's just, I do think players like that better. I think it's quicker to establish yourself when they're. When the leader standing up in front is someone that has been close to the game and understands it. John's been around the game and respected for years. He was in one place for 18 years. He's 62 though, right? Like, he's not young. He. He's still energetic and he's still a great leader and, and he's kind. That is something, you know, players will always say. He's a thoughtful person. But yeah, I still think he aligns with the type of coach owners want. Right, because he's going to be no muss, no fuss. Think about the New York Giants. They need a name. They need someone to come in here and fix whatever this happened because they've got a darn good roster. And I think you clean up a lot of this. If you get the right guy in there, it all goes away. And then they can get this thing on the right track. By the way, the same player said to me, he's like, watch Jackson Dart with John Harbaugh is going to have the same type of path that Drake May did this year. Like, he's just going to take off. So we'll see. We'll stay tuned.
- [17:05]
A
I don't want to be rude to John Harbaugh. He has had LaMar Jackson for two MVP seasons. He doesn't call the place, he doesn't run the offense. Why would John Harbaugh specifically get Jackson Dart to there when everybody says yes, Mike Frable has played a very big role with this and if you talk to people in New England, they'll tell you that. But Josh McDaniels as a massive, massive role in what's happened with Drake May. Why do people feel that way about John Harbaugh doing that for Jackson Dart?
- [17:34]
B
So I think the part that we're going to find out very soon here is who's John going to bring at the OC position? It's got to be the first question, especially New York, right? Like, we've got the guy we believe in who's going to be calling plays here. And from what I understand, I don't think it was perfect with Todd Monken in terms of them, but I know he wants to keep him around, he wants to stick with him. So we'll see if that's going to be part of the interview process as Todd being the OC or perhaps he goes in a different direction. But if I had to just guess right now, I think he sticks with Todd Monken. Look, I think at the end of the day for his history has proven it's why he's getting all these intervals, why teams that currently have a head coach are having their either ownership group, people connected to it or their general managers reach out to Harbaugh's people to see what hit to gauge his interests. I had a team last night text me, do you think Harbaugh would want us think about that, right? Like they're so worried that they don't want to like reach out and get denied.
- [18:38]
A
That is John Harbaugh's agent working overtime and crushing it, honestly, because he's created this like, hey, other teams are interested that have coaches, right? Dynamics. Then other teams are texting you, texting other people going, what do you think you'd like us?
- [18:49]
B
I was thinking about this when I fell asleep last night. Only in this sport I feel like or not only in sports is the person dumped. All of a sudden it almost is better for your image when you get fired than if you do it any other way. Right. Like if you want to go down and in the NFL, like go down kicking and screaming because you're going to come right back up on top but for a short period of time until the next person like Raheem. No one's talking about Raheem right now. I haven't really talked to a team right now.
- [19:19]
A
Interviews, though.
- [19:20]
B
I mean, who's targeting him? I don't know of anyone. Right. Kevin Stefanski was the hot one for two days now. John is the hot one. And, and man, if you got to figure Harbaugh is probably sitting there wondering too, what happens this weekend if one of the teams that gets bounced from the playoffs also decides to move on from one of their head coaches. And now you throw, let's say, Tomlin in the mix.
- [19:41]
D
Yeah.
- [19:41]
B
How does that shake out what's available? And that's the, that's the risk you take, too, if you're going to wait. So that, that's the, that's kind of like the John Harbaugh market conversation of this right now. I do believe he is going to try to meet with as many teams as he can, just talking to people close to him and trying to get an idea of what's lined up. I mean, you've got Atlanta, you've got Tennessee. I'm not sure about Cleveland just yet, but you gotta figure they're gonna pro. Why wouldn't they?
- [20:15]
A
Well, I would hate to be. Even if you're not interested, Diana, for the perception to your fan base, do you want just to like, not interview John Harbaugh or not put in the request, or you might put yourself in a situation where you request John Harbaugh, it becomes public and he turns it down. That could be in play as well. Amanda, that does not look good for an organization.
- [20:36]
B
Now, I did have, I did have someone with a team. They were being very delicate with their interest in Harbaugh because they don't want it out because they're not even sure if they're going to fire their coach or not. Because think about it, if you can't get them.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You can't take that risk because then you're gonna lose your guy. So the next few days are going to be really interesting and entertaining, I can tell you that.
- [21:07]
A
That's fascinating. It shows me a couple of things. One, I really, really liked what you had to say about where John Harbaugh is and where the landscape of the NFL is right now in terms of having a lot of these coaches that played. And if you ask players all the time, I love when a coach demands something of me, and I will respond to it because I know he's been through it, too. If you're a running back coach and you're telling your guy to go between the tackles, come on, man, you got to do this, this and this. The running back certainly loves hearing it from a guy who did it himself. If you're due Staley, it's easier to get that message across to your particular player when they know, man, that guy put the helmet on and did it as well. And that's a big part of what's happening across the NFL as well, until you get to that Andy Reid level or that John Harbaugh level or that Mike Tomlin level, where just the respect is kind of just there. But how long does that entirely last with certain players? As I was talking to a veteran player just last night going, you know, players have changed. And that's why you're saying this, because practices have changed, style has changed, everything has changed around the building. What do teams want, what do locker rooms want is listened to by some of these owners, in a sense, in how they do it. Let's try this again. What do you think about the Ravens as an opening?
- [22:24]
B
Yeah.
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A
And the boxes it checks almost every single one.
- [22:28]
B
Yeah.
- [22:30]
A
That's going to be an interesting hire because they went outside of the box 18 years ago when everybody said you're hiring who you're hiring. John Harbaugh, a special teams coordinator. I think they have the ability, Diana, to go outside the box again if they want, because of how stable the structure is within that organization. What say you?
- [22:47]
B
It is stable, and they have a really strong, good front office. But you also have LaMar Jackson, a 28 years old who hasn't won a Super bowl yet, two MVPs, and he's obviously a running quarterback who's getting older. Right. You would think that you would want someone coming in here with a very strong offensive mind and an offensive plan.
- [23:12]
A
And to relate to the quarterback quickly to.
- [23:15]
B
To try to get this going Right. But you could also see it as, well, maybe you just bring in the kind of the. The guy that can establish what the Ravens are going to be now, post John and get a great offensive coordinator connected with him. Right. So I would expect the Ravens to reach out to Clint Kubiak in Seattle, the offensive coordinator there. I expect them to reach out to Cliff Kingsbury, who is no longer employed by the commanders in, in terms of offensive People. But then, you know, you've got a guy like Anthony Weaver, who was loved by that organization when he was there, who is getting head coaching opportunities right now. He'll be interviewing for Arizona and Atlanta over the next few days. Jesse Minter is the name that I've been hearing. I don't have any intel on it right now of what would that look like. Right. But my only concern or question with the mentor part of this is, is mentor going to take staff from John Harbor's brother's team if he comes to Baltimore? Right. Like, I mean, you have that, like, weird factor in there.
- [24:25]
A
I think he would.
- [24:26]
B
I mean, but, but does Jim allow it? Right. Like.
- [24:31]
A
Well, if it's a promotion, it's hard for a team to block it. If it's a lateral move, it's easier. But yes.
- [24:36]
B
So there's a. We'll see over the next few hours of who they're going to be going after. And I can tell you that there were people in the front office who did not believe that harbor was getting fired. So it's not like they had some plan here where they had, you know. Yes. Our conversations always happening, other back channels going on for weeks during the season. Absolutely. But it is so much different when it becomes reality. It's. It's one thing to just talk about this idea, but then when you are faced with, oh, my goodness, I've got to go find a head coach now. And in a crop that most around the league don't really think is that spectacular.
- [25:17]
A
Yeah.
- [25:18]
B
You know, so we'll, we'll see what direction they go in here. And you didn't see how much, say, Lamar Jackson's gonna have in it.
- [25:26]
A
I know you mentioned a couple of guys that names start with K, which they should start with a C, but they start with a Kleen Kubiak and Cliff Kingsbury. But you didn't mention Kevin Stefanski for the Ravens. No, no. Fit.
- [25:45]
B
I have not heard that one yet. I don't hate it.
- [25:48]
A
I don't hate it either.
- [25:52]
B
Well, let's take a look. Let's go through some of the things, some of the quarterbacks Kevin has played with or coached.
- [25:57]
A
If we don't have a two hour show today, just go through his quarterback.
- [26:00]
B
Literally just thinking about, can I. Could I name every Cleveland quarterback that Kevin or let's even go back to Minnesota now? I kind of do that, but. Whoa. Yeah, like that. That's. I think you're actually asking a really good question too, because what style of offense are you looking for? What kind of style of offense does Lamar want to be in? Right. Obviously we understand what is successful for them, but he is getting older. Do they want to open the passing game up a little bit more the way we saw Washington trying to do? Right. So it's less of a run game. Just depends on what, what it is that they want to do. So I would, I would assume Baltimore is going to be reaching out to Jimmy Sexton to see if Kevin Stefanski would be interested.
- [26:41]
A
I love like, that's kind. I mean, he runs a very similar system to Clint Kubiak. It all stems up to the Shanahan Kubiak world, that run first bootleg type of thing. That both of them are very successful with Lamar in the bootleg game with the threat to run is to me one that makes sense. But you know, it's going to be up to Steve Boschotti who I think evaluates talent very, very well and has a very good eye for what's out there. It's going to be fascinating, Diana. It's going to be fascinating. Do you have anything else? Empty the notebook. Before we let you run back to single digiting the phone.
- [27:14]
B
My plain notebook. In, in typical Diana fashion, I couldn't find a pen when someone was talking.
- [27:20]
A
Before my pen ran out while we were talking. Yeah, I, I, you're usually writing on toilet paper.
- [27:24]
B
Oh my. I was taking this like lipstick thing and using it like the, the tip of the lipstick thing to write something down before artistic. But, but the. I got the important part out. I had said two weeks ago that this was going to be a coordinator heavy cycle and that the head coaching thing was going to be a little light. And that has changed so much. And this isn't because. And I'm obviously not the only person who said that this isn't because the information we were getting was wrong. It's so many decision makers changed their minds, which I know, I think blows.
- [28:07]
A
Preach that, Diana. So we don't sound wrong. So preach that. So we don't sound wrong.
- [28:11]
B
But I think people think that that's how that works. Like there's like. If I was a fan, I would say the same thing. Like, you're telling me a billionaire who's had so much success to become a billionaire has no plan. Like.
- [28:26]
A
Well, I'll say this because this was said to me last night. Where did they make their billions? Somewhere else or football? Somewhere else. Almost all of them made it in some other form of business.
- [28:37]
B
And it doesn't carry over is this, it's not the same Thing. Like we said before, it's the only place where you get fired and things get better for you.
- [28:46]
A
Yeah.
- [28:47]
B
So look, I. Monday was busy. I just think this is going to keep getting busier because so much still needs to happen and I do think there's teams out there waiting to see what happens in this weekend's games. I think we're going to be on Scoop City on Monday, fired up about whatever games that we love to watching. You know, discussing that with Chase. But I'm going to bet you we'll be leading the show with. With new coaching information.
- [29:12]
A
I'm so excited. I mean, I'm not excited for people to get to lose their jobs. You know what I'm saying?
- [29:16]
B
But it's fascinating to watch, like, change, like.
- [29:20]
A
Yeah.
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B
So with that, really quickly before we. Before I hop off, where are you going to a game this weekend?
- [29:27]
A
No, I'm gonna. I'm gonna soak them all in.
- [29:29]
B
Okay, good. All right.
- [29:30]
A
Well, I sometimes like this. I love going to games and I love like working a stadium and the sideline and all that different stuff. But then sometimes when I'm home and I know a lot of coaches in the post season are watching, but they're out of the postseason. Those test exchange, right. Are always super fun because they watch the game obviously better than we do. I love hearing their point of view going like, hey, this is such as. I'm like, oh, wow. And you could do that with multiple games in the first week of the postseason.
- [29:56]
B
Do you feel like you're on an island when you cover one game? It was always my, like, biggest gripe when I was at ESPN was I don't want to be at one game. Like, I don't care. I want to be everywhere, you know, and you just can't be. So.
- [30:08]
A
Okay, go be everywhere though. How about that?
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B
I'm going to go try to be everywhere. Emoji face, thumbs up, all of that. I will talk to you soon.
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Beautiful. You're the best. Coming up, we are going to have. Jeffrey Riebrich is going to be joining us covering the Ravens. Obviously has come out with a bunch of stuff. Him Diana have worked on a ton of stuff putting it out there on the Athletic. He's going to join us next on Scoopsy. Ever find yourself bored or trying to kill time? We have finally found a solution for you.
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- [33:01]
A
Welcome back to Scoop City. James Palmer here with you. Jeff Srebreebrik joins us. And Jeff, we've had this conversation I feel like multiple times throughout the year on this show. Hey, what's going to happen with John Harbaugh? And you did keep saying to your credit like, like I always know that it's not going to happen until Steve Boschotti is The one who makes the final decision. But it does always feel a little bit different this year than years past. You kind of saw some writing on the tea leaves, but I want to get to actually it happening. Do you think this was handled the right way for a guy that has been there for 18 years in John Harbaugh, the way we all found out and the way it all ended and transpired?
- [33:39]
D
Yeah, I don't really. I mean, I think some of it is out of their control. Once word gets out, once you start meeting, meeting with players, it's impossible to control. You can't tell anybody. Don't tell your agents, don't tell your friends. Like, when you tell. Start telling people, it's gonna get out. I just. I. I just think you could tell from. It just felt like. Like a real shotgun kind of thing. Like, you know, there was no real, like, highlight video package thanking Harbaugh. There was no immediate statement. It took a while. It kind of leaked out through the media. John Harbaugh didn't have a chance, Chance to meet with his assistant coaches and give them the news. They got the news during a meeting with, you know, team president Sashi Brown and general manager Eric Dacosta. I. I, personally, I think John Harbaugh deserved better. Now. I think. I think there had to be some way where you could have kind of did a joint thing. Like, we're. We're. We're. We'll always be close in this. He's a important part of the organization, but we're moving apart amicably. But they didn't get there. And, you know, some of it may be semantics, James. Like, look, I'm sure Harbaugh wants that money and. And, you know, like, look, to get. Though he still has three years left on his deal and to get that money, it's this year. Like, yeah. So he has three full years left on that deal. Now, I imagine there's some offsets that if he gets hired elsewhere, but still, like, if. If you resign, you don't get that, but if you get fired, you're getting that. So I'm sure that may have had something to do with the wording of it all, but. Yeah, I think I thought there would be a much clean. More clean way to handle this than they actually did.
- [35:15]
A
Yeah. Everybody who's listening, please go and read what Jeff's written on the Athletic about this entire situation. Has covered it brilliantly, better than anybody else I've read out there, Jeff, in times of how this went down and maybe the details that you have And I know you're still digging and going to be coming up with more information about that, but what I read this morning from you was very enlightening to me. Talking about the dynamic between Todd Monk and Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh, how. What can you tell us about. About that relationship and maybe a part that it played and potentially maybe Lamar and the part that. That plays with whoever else comes in as the next head coach.
- [35:53]
D
Yeah, like, I think people interpret that, that there was, you know, I don't think the relationship between Todd Monken and John Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson, like, specifically about Monkin and Lamar. I don't think it was untenable. Don't get me wrong. Like, you know, they won a lot of games together, they put up a lot of numbers, they had a working relationship, but there was always an edge there. Todd is a hard driving coach and he's brash. Every other word is usually an F bomb. And he's just a real interesting guy and he's really in your face. And, you know, I think there are times where John Harbo had to kind of intercede there and be the buffer, you know, be the good cop to Todd's bad cop, for lack of better expression. And I think that was all part of it. Lamar Jackson's a unique personality. He's not like other player. You know, everybody's different in a lot of ways. And I think there was always this push pull in. In the relationship with Lamar and different people trying to reach him and, you know, trying to make sure he was good with everything and make sure he was kept abreast of everything they were doing and, and he was content. And yeah, I think that was sort of part of the awkward dynamic here. I don't think the reason why John Harbaugh is not the head football coach of the Ravens today is because of Todd Monkin. I don't. But I think the whole coaching dynamic and what Jon was willing to do and how much he was willing to. To lose on that coaching staff and his vision for the team, it sounded to me, James, that Jon thought they would be fine with a little bit of a reset, some tweaks on the coaching staff, and the higher ups believe they needed massive change. And I don't think John Harbaugh was on board with that idea.
- [37:35]
A
Okay, so that's the, that's the how this transpired. I'm kind of curious what's next. When I talk to people and I said this to Diana earlier in the show, an executive text me from another team after this move happened and said that in his mind, the Ravens are the best run organization in professional sports. And I think that's very, very high praise. But you're in that building on a daily basis. I think this job checks almost every single box that you can possibly have. When's the last time we had an opening like this in the NFL and what do you see them doing in terms of the direction they go, Jeff?
- [38:17]
D
Yeah, wow, that's a good question. When the last time there's been kind of a plum opening where you're joining a stable organization with ownership and, and GM on the same page and not a whole lot of dysfunction and you got an MVP quarterback, a really good roster. I mean, this isn't a rebuild situation. The coaches who just comes in here is gonna expect to win. I can't recall.
- [38:40]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [38:41]
D
I can't recall in recent years, you know, any opportunity as good as this. And I think they'll be at the top of the list for the candidates. It'll be interesting what they do. But I think if they've only had one head coaching hiring over in so long, like they did this with Harbaugh in 2008, and when they hired Harbaugh in 2008, they cast a pretty wide net. They looked at the college ranks. In fact, they tried to interview Kirk Forens from Iowa and he, he kind of rebuked them. And they looked at coaches on offense and defensive side of the ball. And I think this is going to be a drawn out process. I think they're going to start quickly. Later this week, James, I think we'll start hearing about them requesting permission and in, in more hours than days. And I think they'll really get on this, but I think they're going to interview a lot of people. And Steve Ashadi made his billions off being a, you know, running and developing a staffing agency. He knows what he's looking for. He knows the whole process of interviewing and all that. They'll be on the same page on all this. They'll know what they want to hear, what they're looking for. I imagine they'll kind of do the zoom thing early, then bring in a smaller group of candidates and go from there. But it'll be interesting. I don't think I, I don't think people should set expect like a conventional hire necessarily. I mean, I think Steve Bishotti has proven he's not afraid to go unconventional and maybe kind of the guys can. Most connected to it now may not be the guys that we Wind up seeing as the finalists.
- [40:12]
A
That's a great point. You know, I got a text last night. I'm. I'm talking to people going, hey, about this job. I was trying to answer the same question I asked you. That's why I asked you like, when was the last time we saw a job like this come available? And it was brought up to me that was very interesting. Jeff was, you know, they went outside the box with John when they hired him and he was a special teams guy. I wouldn't be surprised. And this is from another team. I wouldn't be surprised if they went outside the box again. And I thought it was interesting that they added because of the stability and the structure and everything else we mentioned allows them maybe to take that risk that other places can't.
- [40:45]
D
Do.
- [40:46]
A
You know anything in terms of oftentimes when you change head coaches, teams look for the opposite or the adverse in some capacities. Right. Do you know anything in terms of traits that you would think Steve Bushadi be looking at? I know that could come from anywhere and I think that was a great point you made. But any sort of traits that that candidate they would be looking for to have in terms of who could fill that job.
- [41:07]
D
We were always told with Steve that he really appreciates the CEO type coach. Right. The culture builder, the guy that's going to have really good coach communication with players and be in collaboration. You know, this is a team like, you know, the, the Ravens have a decision making process that involves Steve, Sashi Brown, Eric Dasta, like, and the head coach needs to be part of that. So there needs to be a collaboration. You know, I, I think some of the complaints about Harbaugh over the years James was there was, you know, beyond special teams, he never was an offensive coordinator, he never was the defensive coordinator. So I'm interested to see if Steve's V has gotten that same feedback. And Steve's view is we need an offensive guy or a defensive guy. And if we get that defensive guy, we need a hot shot offensive coordinator. Grow and develop with Lamar Jackson. But I think a lot of it comes down to Lamar Jackson. James, I think you need to find a coach that's going to develop a great rapport with him. Not afraid to coach him hard, but also know how to kind of meet Lamar and understand Lamar and get the best out of the quarterback. So it'll be interesting. I mean, look, Jesse Minter is the name I hear the most. I've had so many people reach out to me and say that's, that's Easy. Like, come on, that makes too much sense. But I mean, it's a little. That's a little awkward in a sense too. James, because John Harbaugh brought him to the NFL and you're taking him off Jim Harbaugh. So like, is. Is that what they want to do? Is that the. Jesse's gonna get a job? I think we all believe that. But is that the best situation for him? You may have some longtime Ravens assistants who are still there who have worked with Jesse. I did hear something interesting though, last night. James. I heard Jesse and. And Lamar have a pretty good relationship from the time when Jesse was here. So he. There will be some familiarity there. I don't know that they're really close. He was a defensive assistant, Lamar quarterback, but I think they know each other. I think he's well aware of Jesse, so that makes it interesting. But I don't think they're going to be wedded. We need to get an offensive guy or we need to get a defensive guy. I don't think that's going to be deal breaker. Either way, they're going to try to get the best guy for the job.
- [43:22]
A
Okay, I get that. Hey, Lamar has that type of personality. He can become friends with anybody in the building. You know, he could be on the defensive side of the ball. That's. That's the way Lamar operates. I've heard similar things about Jesse as well. I mean, I spent some time with the Chargers this past week who. They just think he is a star, Jeff. So we'll see what happens with. With Jesse. I have one more question on Lamar because this is something that we did kind of see this season and I'm kind of curious if you can glean any light onto what we saw with Lamar this year and what we saw in the number of injuries. And there's probably going to be a contract negotiation this offseason, you would think, as they kind of dabbled in it last year, to my understanding. So what's next for Lamar? I don't see him playing elsewhere, but I also don't see this being like the smoothest off season in terms of negotiations as well. I could be wrong. And then how that coach relates to him, in my head I'm going, well, a former quarterback or a former player always can work, but at the same time, sometimes that doesn't work when you have a player as talented and as unique as. As Lamar in the way he plays the position. What do you think Lamar's future is and what can we see this off season? You Think in terms of his role in all of this, I think one.
- [44:29]
D
I think the Ravens are going to be focused on this head coaching process. But then the next focus, James has to be on Lamar Jackson's contract. It just has to be, it's going to be in hard for them to oper when the market opens in mid March without, I mean his cap hits almost $75 million. That's, that's untenable.
- [44:46]
A
So I think Desean has 80. I think, yeah, this last year. Oh my gosh.
- [44:51]
D
So they need to figure that out and that's going to have to be, you know, right after the coach. That's going to have to be the primary focus. But as for Lamar, you know, I think this is a huge off season for him and I don't think they, I think if, I think any chance that they traded Lamar probably went out the window with the Harbaugh stuff. And I'm not saying that it was John or Lamar. I don't believe that. But what you're selling to these head coach prospects is a chance to come in and coach Lamar Jackson. Like there's, there's a lot of things that make the job interesting. That's one, a come in and work with a two time MVP and one of the game's best players. That's one of the reasons they got Todd Monkin, because he wanted to work with Lamar Jackson. So I, I don't, you know, you never know. We talk about this all the time. If someone wants to offer three first round picks or two first rounders and a stud, you never know. They'll probably listen. But they're moving forward with Lamar Jackson. They want to figure this out. And you know, this is a big off season for Lamar Jackson to get healthier. He's going to have to develop a relationship with a new coach and kind of move the organization forward. He's the face of this James, regardless of who they hire as the coach. And it just was a shame this year. I don't think we ever really saw him healthy. You know, you saw the moments of brilliance from Lamar like in that fourth quarter he kind of put on the super bowl cape, excuse me, the Superman cape in Pittsburgh. But I think he feels like we're kind of robbed of seeing him at his best all year just because one, it was the health and I don't think he was ever 100% really since very early season and two, when you're not practicing regular regularly. I think that impacts every player in the NFL and I do think it impacted him that he was unable to practice as much as they would have liked.
- [46:38]
A
Real quick, do you think anybody would want to change his play style, Jeff, just as he gets older? Is that discussion at all, you think?
- [46:46]
D
No, I don't think so. I think you need to stick with what makes Lamar special now as he gets older, and maybe he's not as explosive. I think he's gonna have to. To even develop more parts of his game, even. But I think he's done that already. I think we're seeing that. I mean, there are big questions about him throwing the ball. When Todd Monkin arrived. He throws the ball pretty well. I don't think that's an issue, so. But yeah, I think, you know, it's. It would be one thing, James, if I thought his injuries were a result of him getting pummeled this year. Like, they really weren't. Like, he had the knee to the back in the Patriots game, But that was a 4 or 5 yard RPO and it was kind of a freak thing. So it's hard to chalk that up to Lamar's playing style. It was just some freak things this year that, you know, kind of conspired, and he just was never able to get right.
- [47:34]
A
Got it. Okay. Well, let's hope that Superman cape does turn into a Super bowl cape for Ravens fans. Let's hope that happens. And I also always thought 1B might be the cafeteria there as the most important things that are selling this Ravens organization. I always hear from guys, okay, it's a great cafeteria after Lamar Jackson, it's a good one to have. And I did get from Jeremy, who works on our show 2019. The packers job coming open and Matt LaFleur taking that. I think that was a pretty good opportunity.
- [47:58]
D
That was. Yeah, that's a good one.
- [48:00]
A
So I appreciate him. He's a genius when it comes to that type of stuff. And you're a genius when it comes to the Ravens. Jeff, appreciate it so much. This was an outstanding conversation. I know everybody listening and watching absolutely loved it as much as I did. So get back to work. Keep giving us all that content. Figure out where they're headed next. I'm excited to read it.
- [48:16]
D
Thanks, James. Always enjoy talking to you.
- [48:18]
A
Yep, me too. Coming up, we have Dan Duggan joining us. What's gonna happen in terms of the Giants? Are they interested in John Harbaugh? Are they interested in Kevin Stefanski? We'll get to that next on Scoop City.
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- [50:57]
A
All right, welcome back to Scoop City. I'm James Palmer, very special guest here. Dan Duggan joins us, covers the Giants better than really anybody I know and I know a lot of people that cover the Giants. Dan I'm not gonna lie. Your initial thoughts and we are taping this at 11:30 Eastern on Wednesday so anything can change. But right now your initial thought when you saw that John Harbaugh was made available after getting fired in Baltimore was what?
- [51:24]
C
That Kevin Scafancy's three hour run as the favorite in the search was short lived. Because you know it's. I've done enough of these. This will be. I wasn't here. I came in McAdoo's first year. I wasn't there for that coaching search but I covered the Shermer, the judge, the Dables. This is my fourth coaching search and you know, like a little over maybe 10 years. So I'm pretty well versed. And the thing you kind of sometimes forget how quickly it actually happens though and how fluid this process is because obviously, you know, we've known Dables been out for a long time. You've known who the HUD coordinators are or the Mike McCarthys that aren't employed are. You didn't know who was going to shake first. And you know, I don't think Stefanski was a big surprise. Seemed like the type of guy who checks a lot of boxes and then Harbaugh, like that Sunday night game, it felt like a lot was riding on that field goal at the end of that game. And if it goes one way, you know, maybe we're talking with Mike Tomlin today and instead we're talking about John Harbaugh and I think he just instantly vaults to the top of the Giants list. Now probably every list that's out there right now, you've heard that he's got, I think his agent. It's up to nine teams now have reached out and what there's six openings and you know, obviously not going to include Baltimore. So the math tells you he's a guy who's in demand. And I think absolutely for the Giants number one on the list just they need someone like that to come in here. They've tried the first time guys even tried a retread and Pat Shermer not quite the same resume as John Harbaugh. They're chasing like that Tom Coughlin type of guy. And I think Harbaugh checks a ton of those boxes based on his resume and what he's done, you know, just a long successful run in Baltimore.
- [52:50]
A
Yeah, if he were to be hired in, I think he would be the, the first super bowl winning head coach hired by the Giants. Right. That he's won one prior.
- [52:59]
C
Obviously, you know, the guys came in and Got there, won them. But yeah, I don't think they've ever hired someone who won a Super Bowl. And yeah, and again, it's just there's an instant, you know, gravitas he brings into the building. And this is a young roster. We can debate how talented is, but there is definitely young talent. I think the biggest thing you heard was that leadership and accountability, those types of things are lacking. Nobody's going to come in and command the room quite like a John Harbaugh. You just, you know, look at, look at the success I've had, look at the MVPs and the, you know, everything he's done there. So players would instantly, you know, have no choice but to fall in line to what he's going to run. And, you know, again, he's proven that he is a program builder. All the buzzwords that you try to think, could this guy be that, that you don't have to ask that question. You know, it, he's done it, he's proven it.
- [53:43]
A
Yeah, it's a big reason why. I think part of the reason the, the job in Baltimore is so coveted is because of what he's established. A lot of it is going to be still there for you to just inherit and mold the way you want because of the success and sustained success that they had. You mentioned kind of the way he is wired and I've been around him enough to know that, you know, John has certain ways he wants things done. He's rather firm in a variety of things. The relationship that he could potentially have with Joe Shane, would he be one to come in and want to evaluate that? He doesn't seem like the player, the type of coach, though, Dan, that would want to come in and just clean house, but it seems like something that people could possibly have their eye on, you know, Joe. I know Joe. What, what's your take on, on where that could possibly stand if this ends up being a marriage?
- [54:29]
C
Yeah, I mean, listen, that's certainly an interesting wrinkle because again, we knew Brian Dable was out for a long time. Joe Shane's fate was the one that was sort of undecided. And obviously they announced a month Monday he's back. It's not usually a good sign that two years in a row ownership had to put out a statement that you're retaining your job. Tells you sort of the state of things. Now listen, he didn't even say if he got an extension, you know, and nothing is binding at this point. If John harbor comes in and his one and only criteria is Like, I'll take the job if you fire Joe Shane and bring in my preferred gm. There's no way they could say no to that. I'm sorry. Maybe you find a different role for Joe Shane. Whatever. Like, there's just no way that you could let that be a roadblock to getting him in the building. But from, you know, you know, you say, you know, Jon, I don't really know him, obviously, just from afar, but from doing some quick research, talking to people who know him a lot better than I do. I don't necessarily think he would come in and be like, I'm gonna strong arm Joe Shane and take over and he's got to go. Like, I don't think it would come to that. But I also heard he had a very strong voice in personnel in Baltimore. So he's going to come in and expect, obviously that's any job he takes. He's not going to come in and just be a wallflower and let the GM run the show. And I think coming into this situation, it might always be advantageous. You don't have to push Joe Shane out the door, but you're going to come in and your weight is going to automatically kind of outweigh him on any, I would think, any close calls. I think Joe Shane is probably going to be happy to have the job and would probably defer to him. So it might be an ideal situation in some ways. As much as you can look at Joe Shane as a detriment in this situation, it might help. And then listen, if after a year you go through a draft cycle for ages, cycle a season, we could certainly be sitting here a year from now talking about the Giants GM search and who from Baltimore. Baltimore, who from Harbaugh's past makes sense, but I would think just at the super early stage, I mean, he hasn't even interviewed for the Giants job, let alone met Joe Shane. As far as I don't think they have any preseason relationship, but you could easily see it playing out. He comes in, they'll make it work. And if it doesn't, then it's very easy to then move off from Joe Shane next year. But yeah, I don't necessarily think it's going to be a Liam Cohen, Trent balky situation. But of course, we don't even know that because again, they have to get in the room. But I would assume Joe Shane survival instincts would understand. Like, I'm, I'm going to like defer to the super bowl winning coach with the, the track record to be coming in.
- [56:28]
A
Yeah, It's a really good point to bring up Trent Baalke and Liam Cohen, that the perception of that job actually changed very much right after there was a period of time that Trent Balke was part of it and then Shot Khan ends up moving on from Trent Baalke. And then in a lot of people I talked to around the league, the appearance of the job changed a little bit. And Liam Cohen slides in there. I think you could say. Maybe that's a thought with some people's minds in Cleveland as well. With Andrew Barry, I think him and Joe Shane are kind of in very similar. Similar boats in some instances. But then I also look at, you know, I'm sitting here in Denver right now, and everybody thought that Sean Payton was going to push George Payton out the door after year one. And that has developed into an unbelievably good working relationship with both of them. And we know that Sean has a big say in terms of personnel and in terms of what he wants within that building. But, you know, George has held his own in terms of getting themselves out of that Russell Wilson situation and developing the rest of that roster. I mentioned Russell Wilson. He was a quarterback there with the Giants. Yeah, there's, there's, there's just, you know, there you mentioned it being so early, and obviously Jackson Dart plays a part in this. And there's been early reports, I don't know specifically, but that John Harbaugh might like Jackson Dart. Is that a deal breaker in this search? You know, sometimes that's a conversation that happens during these interviews where, hey, Jackson Darts our quarterback. What's your plan for him? Or are there other options if somebody comes in, say, John harbor or somebody else, and say, I like Jackson Dart, I don't know if I love him, but John Harbaugh loves this job. What would happen in that scenario? Because that one seems wild to me.
- [57:58]
C
Right. Listen, I think if they had the number one pick, which was in their grasp, you know, in the last two weeks of the season, then I think that becomes a big topic because then it's like, do you prefer Jackson Dart or any, you know, the Mendoza, any college quarterback, or the things you can do with that pick now that they're picking five, I mean, the top quarterbacks gonna be off the board anyway. So I think Jackson Darts has certainly shown enough that you would feel comfortable if you're taking the shot, rolling with him for a year or two, and then obviously you can reassess once you get in. And like you said, the early indications are that, you know, Harbaugh is impressed by him. I mean, listen, I mean Jackson Dart, it's hard not to be impressed. He had a very solid rookie year. There's promise there. I mean obviously there's plenty of room for growth. But it certainly wasn't a situation like oh man, I do not even want to go in there. It's not Josh Rosen or anything like that situation where I can't win with this kid. But I think, you know, we talked about Joe Shane and the, the GM situation. The quarterback thing probably is going to be a bigger factor for a coach like, like John Harbor. When you're coming in, you're assessing because he's going to have his pick of the litter. We just talked about how many teams are interested. So does he like the Giant situation headlined by Jackson Dart or the Tennessee situation headline by Cam Ward? Or you know, you start kind of looking around what the, the quarterback situations are like the Falcons, they might be far more appealing in some aspects but then the quarterback situation is kind of a mess. Or maybe he likes Michael Penix. These are all the things that are going to get worked out in the next couple days. When he starts actually meeting, having interviews, I assume he'll make the rounds. I mean this is his first time being in this position. Obviously he was, you know, first time head coach in Baltimore, was there for 18 years. He hasn't even gotten to do this whole wine and dine and you know, I'm sure he might have some preliminary opinions but you know, he's focused on being the Steelers and hopefully preparing for the AFC wild card round this week. He did not think necessarily he'd be in this position so I would assume he'll take his time, factor everything in. But yeah, I think Jackson Dart would be an appealing aspect of this job. I don't think it'll be a detriment again if they the number one pick. It would be a lot, maybe the juicier supply. I think picking five, you're going to run it back with him. And I think any coach comes in, I think would be, you know, content to sign up for that.
- [59:51]
A
It's a good point, really good point. You mentioned you were, you know, planning on writing something on Kevin Stefanski, planning on following, you know, Kev during a certain direction and possibly him being the leading candidate. Then John Harbaugh comes in. Let's not just disregard Kevin, Kevin Stefanski, a two time coach of the year. How would his fit potentially be knowing that locker room and knowing what players are looking for. How would you think Kevin Stefanski's demeanor would fit that room and the city.
- [60:17]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think he is a very strong plan B at this point. Again, I think all the eggs are going to go on the Harbaugh basket. You're going to exhaust that avenue. And if it doesn't work out, because again, for the three hours or whatever the gap was before you found out the harbor can be available and that Stefanski was going to be coming for an interview, I think a lot of people were interested. You know, maybe not the same excitement. You know, he didn't win Super Bowls, but he was in Cleveland and he got to the playoffs a couple times. You said he won a couple coach of the year awards there, so. No, I think he absolutely checks a lot of the boxes there. I think the previous head coaching experience is a thing where it doesn't always guarantee success. But when you're just coming from where the Giants are right now, where it's been, they've really bottomed out. There is just something to be said for a guy who's coached 100 games in the NFL and you at least know there's a level of stability and competency in the role. You know, Chris Shuler, Jesse Mitchell, they might be the next great superstar coach and you'd love to get in on the ground floor in that, but they also might be the next guy who's just overwhelmed and, you know, you just set your franchise back. I think that they want to just kind of put this one in the fairway as far as a hire goes. And obviously hardball will be more than just doing that. I think Stefanski probably fits the put in the fairway. Like, maybe you're not going to win a Super bowl him, but you're also probably not going to be, you know, just kind of a embarrassing mess or, you know, for lack of a better way to put it. But yeah, and I think the offensive background, that probably helps again, because I think a lot of what they do is going to be, what's your plan for developing Jackson Dart? We've seen promise. How do you get him to the next level? And it's funny with Harbaugh not being an offensive guy, you know, he can point to the couple of MVP trophies that Lamar Jackson won with different coordinators, stuff like, I'll figure that out. Don't worry about it. So that's not a big hurdle for him to over overcome, not being an offensive guy. Whereas Stefanski, I mean, directly, he can say, like, listen, I didn't have the greatest quarterback situation, but when I even had confident quarterback play in Cleveland. We won and had some success.
- [62:02]
A
Yeah, really good point. I'm fascinated always to see what, what somebody that, that is respected. When I talk to people around the league, the way Kevin Stefanski is going, okay, here's a young, talented quarterback, say, Jackson Dart. Have at it, Kevin, like, as opposed to what you've been dealing with in Cleveland. Before you go, Dan, I'm kind of curious. Has the time benefited the Giants with. As early as they parted ways with Brian Dable and being around the organization and inside the building as much as you are, from when Day Ball left and departed to now, has that time period benefited the Giants in any sense?
- [62:37]
C
It's interesting because, you know, Joe Shane was asked a question like that on Monday and he indicated ahead that, you know, I think comparing it to when he did the first search, you know, he had been the assistant GM in Buffalo. You know, you're going through your own GM interviews, gets the job with the Giants, and then you gotta turn around and make a head coaching hire. So you can understand that that's a pretty hectic process and timeline. Whereas this, you know, you fire Dable, it's seven weeks ago in the season, you have all that runways the word he used to do your research on candidates. So I think that part definitely helps. At the same time, it's a fast and furious process. So all that background work you did on Jeff Halfley in November, it doesn't really make that much of a difference when you got to somehow sell John Harbaugh, who you had no idea. I mean, you might have an inkling he could be available, but you didn't know he'd be available. Even Kevin Stefansi, you didn't know he'd be available. So again, I keep using that word fluid, because again, being through this process so many times, I can remember when they hired Joe Judge and everyone was waiting for Matt Rule, like that was the, you know, the golden goose they're going to land. And they couldn't get him on the plane and leave David Tepper's house, you know, when he went to Charlotte. So you have to be able to. It's a pivot in these types of searches. So, yeah, again, I think it helped that they're not under the gun like you would have been, you know, Shane's first go around and obviously he brought David with him from Buffalo. So there's a lot of high comfort level here. He's been able to cast a wider net, even just probably in the preliminary stuff where maybe you do More background and rule some guys out. But then again, you just never know who's going to enter the fray. And then we got wild card weekend here. Who's to say everything is settled? There could be some guys getting bounced that, you know, have an early exit this weekend and that might make more competition for Harbaugh. So again, it's just, it's such a, just a crazy time. And so I think that, I think that Runway helped, but now it's, now you're down to brass tacks and now you gotta be able to be nimble enough to make moves and outfox teams. You gotta get your interview order, you know, ahead of other team, whatever it may be, all of that. There's no, I don't think there's any preparation that can help you. But it certainly didn't hurt, I think, to have that seven week Runway.
- [64:27]
A
Yeah, that's a really good point. I never thought of it from the adverse side of the things of, you know, we could rule people out during this process. That's a really, really good point. Okay, I'll let you get back to it. Cause you said time is of the essence. Get working on John Harbaugh, maybe Mike Tomlin next week, who know, everybody should have an interest in this Giants job. That to me seems very still appealing right up there with the Ravens ahead of the rest of the group. Dan, thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate your time.
- [64:52]
C
Yeah, no, anytime. I appreciate it.
- [64:55]
A
I love when we get all these different perspectives from all these different voices that are so plugged in across the NFL. Obviously the number one right there is our senior NFL insider, Diana Rossini. Outstanding information at the top of the show about everything that's going on with John Harbaugh. And across the NFL, Jeff Srebrik taking us inside that Ravens locker room and facility. And then Dan Duggan also talking about everything that happens with that Giants team and where they could be going in this search. Just dynamite type of information there. Also, we'll do our normal Thursday road trip around the NFL tomorrow. Keep an eye on that because we have a wide open NFL post season as it was taught to me by someone around the league, an executive. This is the year, this is the year that you want to be in the postseason because anybody can get to the Super Bowl. We'll break it all down tomorrow on Scoop City. Take it easy.
- [65:49]
B
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- [66:06]
D
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- [66:06]
B
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- [67:19]
D
Ollie.