What's at stake for Aaron Rodgers and Brock Purdy as the NFL Playoffs Begin?

Summary

Scoop City: Inside The NFL

Episode: What’s at stake for Aaron Rodgers and Brock Purdy as the NFL Playoffs Begin?

Date: January 8, 2026
Host: James Palmer (The Athletic), with guests Matt Schneidman, Dan Popper, Zach Berman, Joe Buscalia, Mike DeFabo

Episode Overview

This playoff-focused episode of Scoop City takes listeners inside NFL team facilities for a detailed look at the upcoming Wild Card weekend. With a slew of notable teams and quarterbacks—Aaron Rodgers and Brock Purdy among them—on the playoff stage, the hosts and guests analyze what's truly at stake and break down the biggest matchups. Each segment includes insight from an on-site reporter or team insider, sharing expert analysis, behind-the-scenes context, X’s and O’s, and what to watch for in these pivotal contests.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Packers vs. Bears Preview (01:42-23:15)

Packers’ Familiar Edge & Key Player Health

• Familiarity Factor: Packers and Bears meeting for third time in weeks, which means both sides know each other’s playbooks inside and out.
• Matt Schneidman:
  “The packers have outplayed the bears for about 118 of 125 minutes this year.” (05:25)
• Jordan Love’s Return: Coming back from concussion; team believes rust isn’t a major concern as “they’ve been ratcheting up intensity in practice.” (07:30)
• Josh Jacobs’ Health: At his best in six weeks; critical for Packers’ run game and to open up play-action.
• Wide Receiver Depth: Full group healthy, including Christian Watson—a key slot mismatch weapon. (10:00-11:51)
• Defensive Concerns: Secondary is a weak spot, especially with Micah Parsons out. Trayvon Diggs’ recent addition gives more options, though expectations should be managed. (12:23-14:58)
• Run Defense Watch: Without Parsons & Devonte Wyatt, Packers have been gashed at times; Rashan Gary’s lack of sacks since Week 8 is concerning. (16:01-17:55)

  “Rashan Gary had seven and a half sacks in the first seven games and none since.” — Matt Schneidman (17:30)

Matt LaFleur’s Future

• Contract in Limbo: Decision likely after playoffs, not on a whim, but team president Ed Policy wants to avoid LaFleur reaching a contract year without new terms.
• Possible Succession? Packers DC Jeff Hafley is highly regarded as a future head coach. (21:37-22:39)

  “Could their affinity for Jeff Halfley and the desire to keep him in the building influence their decision about LaFleur?” (21:54)

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2. Chargers vs. Patriots (Dan Popper) (23:15-40:22)

Matchup Dynamics

• Chargers’ Offensive Line Injuries: Major concern, but Patriots’ pass rush less intimidating compared to other AFC foes.
• Run Game Focus: Both teams may try to establish the run, Chargers likely to lean on Kamani Vidal if star back Amaran Hampton isn’t healthy. (25:32-26:54)

  “He’s working through a real injury... But the blocking up front and going up against this front... Kamani Vidal will have a chance.” — Dan Popper (26:54)

• Justin Herbert’s Toughness:

  “[Herbert is] the most insanely mentally tough dude of all time.” — Khalil Mack, relayed by Dan Popper (28:09) Story of Herbert running zone-read just seven days after hand surgery exemplifies his leadership and physicality.

Patriots Red Zone Offense vs. Chargers Defense

• Josh McDaniels’ Schemes: Expect innovative short-yardage and red zone packages that will test the now more aggressive Chargers’ man coverage and blitz tendencies. (30:59-34:22)
• Key Defensive Adjustment: Chargers play more man and zero coverage since the bye; can create “trap coverages” and bait Drake May into mistakes.
• Underrated Player to Watch:

  “For me, it’s a big game for DeShawn Hand. Some of these light boxes, can he be stout, take on double teams, knock down some of these runs in the interior...” — Dan Popper (34:47)

Jesse Minter: Future Head Coach?

• Leadership & Delegation: Popper highlights Minter’s “temperament, communication, ability to delegate, and create a close-knit coaching staff” as rare leadership assets. (37:26-39:28)

  “If I was running a football team, he would be very, very high on my list of head coaching candidates if I had an opening.” — Dan Popper (39:28)

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3. 49ers at Eagles (Zach Berman) (42:11-56:04)

Jalen Hurts, Saquon, and Offensive Line

• Hurts’ Running Impact: Eagles are statistically much more successful when Hurts tops 30 rushing yards; it’s a crucial piece for playoff success.

  “For this offense to be what it can be...Jalen’s legs need to be a major element.” — Zach Berman (43:27)

• Postseason Health: Lane Johnson’s return is “enormous”; Eagles’ O-line finally healthy and fresh after Week 18 rest. (46:14)
• Running vs. 49ers:

  “You can run it on [the 49ers]... Attack those edges, make the corners tackle...” — James Palmer (45:01)

Coordinator Chess Match: Fangio vs. Shanahan

• Personnel Groupings: SF’s two-back sets force unique defensive responses—Eagles may deploy more nickel with Cooper DeJean closer to the ball, which could be an advantage. (48:46)
• Strength Up the Middle: Eagles’ LBs and DBs—Zach Bond, Nakobe Dean, Cooper DeJean, and safety Reed Blankenship—give them a chance to limit McCaffrey and Kittle in the middle of the field.
• Reed Blankenship Underrated: As defensive captain, his presence is crucial given depth issues at safety. (51:08-52:25)

What if the Eagles’ Offense Sputters?

• Coordinator in the Spotlight: New OC Kevin Petullo would bear the brunt of scrutiny if the offense falters. Last time Eagles went one-and-done, they changed play-callers. (54:34-55:33)

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4. Bills at Jaguars (Joe Buscalia) (56:04-72:42)

Josh Allen—MVP Mode?

• Allen Looks Healthy: No limp, two weeks of rest, and a history of toughness; expect full usage off structure and in the run game. (57:16)
• Jags Defense:

  "They do everything right... really well coached, fundamentals are great.” — relayed from Justin Stroud (58:17)

  • Not many stars, but “the sum of the whole” makes them formidable; primarily zone, opportunistic with turnovers—room for Bills’ passing attack if wideouts step up.

Bills' Run Defense & Under-the-Radar Performers

• Bills Defense Improved: Quietly much better the past two months; rookies and young players emerging on the line, plus safety Cole Bishop, a key difference-maker. (62:20-64:22)

  “Cole Bishop... he’s instinctive, sniffs out plays, plays hunches, not afraid to make a big hit... he’s become an all-around safety for them.” — Joe Buscalia (65:15)

Jaguars’ Attack, Trevor Lawrence Growth

• Middle of the Field: Jacoby Myers opens up the offense for Trevor. Brian Thomas Jr. for big-play shots; Parker Washington offers a “secret weapon” underneath. (66:43-68:13)
• Bills’ Defensive Strategy: Likely won’t drastically change principles for Lawrence, but will try to pressure and contain; less fear than, say, facing Mahomes or Lamar. (68:13-69:48)

Coach McDermott's Future?

• **Job security is solid: Ownership highly values McDermott and trends toward patience—even if disappointed, not likely to pull the trigger quickly. (70:24-71:37)

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5. Steelers vs Texans (Mike DeFabo) (74:35-88:38)

Texans’ Pass Rush Looms

• Key Concern: Steelers’ pass protection against Houston’s dual-threat edge rushers is priority one; absence of big TE Darnell Washington another issue. (75:33-76:40)

DK Metcalf’s Return is Critical

• Game Changer: Without Metcalf, offense lost; with him, opens up everything due to his target share and the way he draws coverage. (77:38-78:55)

  “[Metcalf] is such a huge part of what they’re going to do, even if he’s not getting the football a lot.” — Mike DeFabo (78:55)

X-Factor Players

• Steelers: Joey Porter Jr. at corner—ascended into a shutdown role, will be tasked with slowing Nico Collins, who torched PIT in 2023 when Porter barely played. (79:49-81:20)
• Texans: Rookie WR Jaden Higgins, “faster in pads than his 40,” could be the surprise weapon if Stroud must look elsewhere under pressure. (81:22-82:47)

Steelers’ Pass Rush Must Deliver

• Highsmith & Herbig: Healthier units now, and Herbig shines in special third-down packages; this trio must dominate, “old NASCAR package style,” to give Steelers a shot. (82:47-84:13)

Tomlin’s Job Security

• Not Getting Fired: As always, any change would almost certainly have to be his call; organizationally, Pittsburgh values continuity and stability, but a win would be huge for his legacy (Mike Tomlin tied Chuck Noll for wins but hasn’t won a playoff game since 2017). (85:06-87:07)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Rashan Gary’s Disappearing Sack Production:
  “Rashan Gary had seven and a half sacks in the first seven games and none since.” (17:30, Matt Schneidman)
• On Justin Herbert’s Toughness:
  “He’s the most insanely mentally tough dude of all time.” — Khalil Mack via Dan Popper (28:09)
• On Jalen Hurts' Running Impact:
  “The Eagles win at about a 72% clip in Jalen’s career when he rushes for 30 or more yards.” (43:27, Zach Berman)
• On Jesse Minter’s Head Coaching Potential:
  “He would be very, very high on my list of head coaching candidates.” (39:28, Dan Popper)
• On Buffalo’s Defensive Improvement:
  “This Bill’s defense... the last two months... has gotten so much better and I think part of that has been the introduction of Shaq Thompson.” (62:24, Joe Buscalia)
• On Tomlin’s Legacy Pressure:
  “It’s important for him to finally crack through in the postseason... ultimately in Pittsburgh coaches, teams, players are judged by what they do in January and February.” (86:18, Mike DeFabo)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Packers-Bears (Matt Schneidman): 01:42-23:15
• Chargers-Patriots (Dan Popper): 23:15-40:22
• 49ers-Eagles (Zach Berman): 42:11-56:04
• Bills-Jaguars (Joe Buscalia): 56:04-72:42
• Steelers-Texans (Mike DeFabo): 74:35-88:38

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Tone & Closing

Throughout, the tone is conversational and insightful—mixing locker-room level detail (“buzz cut TJ Watt... his alter ego,” “I’ll never count out Aaron Rodgers”) with sharp tactical breakdowns and personnel intel. The show closes with reminders of how pivotal the playoffs are not just for teams and players, but for franchises and coaching legacies across the NFL.

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Bottom Line

This jam-packed playoff preview delivers:

• Key injury and health updates for pivotal players (Love, Hurts, Allen, Hampton, Lane Johnson)
• Strategic matchups and schematic trends (run games, red zone, blitz rates)
• Critical pressure points for both players (e.g., Brock Purdy, Jordan Love, Aaron Rodgers) and coaches (LaFleur, Tomlin, McDermott)
• Spotlights on under-the-radar players who could swing games
• Sense of urgency around coaching futures and legacies with big names possibly on the hot seat.

A must-listen (or read) for any NFL fan gearing up for playoff football, full of nuggets that go well beyond the surface.

Transcript

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[James Palmer]

There is, like a secret road. Secret, like, passageway for the player.

[Dan Popper]

There's some ball knowledge for you.

[James Palmer]

Yeah. So there's this way out of the player parking lot through the woods on the back side.

[Dan Popper]

I know exactly what you're talking about.

[James Palmer]

That the players can get out of there and onto the highway and avoid all of the Foxborough nonsense that you're.

[Dan Popper]

Oh, but it's like, players only, team personnel only.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it's like going to Wayne Manor. Like, it's like, you know, probably a bush's move and they fly out of there. So. Welcome in to Scoop city on a Thursday. I'm James Palmer. Don't forget to like and subscribe because we have the entire postseason first round, the. The wild card round covered for you from top to bottom. Yes. We're going to take our Thursday road trip that we always take here on Scoop City around the NFL, taking you inside the facilities. Well, it's going to be our playoff edition for this one. We're going to go inside the Bills facility. We're going to talk to Joe Biscalia about Josh Allen going against that Jaguars team. One of those teams could go to the AFC championship. One of them is going to be done. Can Josh Allen carry that Bills team all the way to a Super bowl where we don't have, remember Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow or Patrick Mahomes in this post season? Also, the Eagles have their road to repeat. Zach Berman's going to join us. We're going to talk about what's up with Jalen hurts and not running the football. Is that something that I don't know who's making the decision there? And is that defense good enough to carry them?

[Matt Schneidman]

All right.

[James Palmer]

And then big news in the coaching front. We have our eighth opening with Mike McDaniel being let go by the Miami Dolphins. He finishes with a 35 and 35 record. One of the better offensive minds considered in the NFL in Mike McDaniel, I think Steven Ross, their owner, my understanding is he still very much so thinks that, but they believe it after heavy consideration and taking some time, even though those I spoke to didn't believe that he ever lost that locker room and finished rather strong. After they relieved general manager Chris Greer of his duties, they now are looking for a general manager and a head coach. They should fill the general manager role rather quickly, to my understanding. And now you take a look at the likes of perhaps John Harbaugh going down there or Jesse Minter, some of the top names that Steven Ross is going to go after. He's always been very, very aggressive in the past in his searches. He's also thought outside the box at times, but. So we'll see what happens in Miami. But there is a good offensive mind in Mike McDaniel that is now available where there's other offensive coordinator jobs available. Tampa Bay now has one available. Remember Washington now has one available with Cliff Kingsbury parting ways from the commander. So there's a lot of shuffling still to go. Diana Rossini and I are going to cover that a lot next week, but we do want to cover these matchups in the wild card round. So with further ado. Nobody says that, but I just did. Let's get to our playoff NFL road trip here on Scoop City, first stop of our playoff road trip around the NFL. Matt Schneidman joins us from I believe. Are you at the stadium right now, Matt?

[Matt Schneidman]

I am, yes. This is a media workroom at Lambeau Field.

[James Palmer]

It looks like a media workroom. It has all the signs of a media workroom. I mentioned this at the top of the show Matt, I've talked to people around the league. I got one sentence about each team before I get going. Okay. This is an NFL personnel executive. The packers can beat anybody. And this is an AFC offensive coordinator. On the Bears I could see them being one and done, but this is the third time we're seeing these two teams match up in, you know, from December on. This is the fifth time that has happened. All the other previous ones as I was looking at the research, decided by 14 or more points. What's your take on the familiarity? Obviously is there but this many games in this tight of span makes you think what?

[Matt Schneidman]

Well, it makes me think that there aren't going to be many things that either of either of these teams have done that you know, the other team hasn't seen. But you know, Adam Stanovich, the Packers offensive coordinator was talking to us yesterday and said there are still some wrinkles that we can bring out. It is unique though that There have been three of these games since what week 14 was the first one, week 16 was the second one and now again in the wild card round. This is the first time the packers and Bears have met in the playoffs in 15 years and only the third time ever that it's happened. And I think that's pretty unique. Not since the 2010 NFC title game, but I, I think something to note here, and I don't know if we're going to get into predictions, but the packers have outplayed the bears for about 118 of 125 minutes this year. That first game they won 2821. They had a two score lead on them early before they let the Bears back in it, or I should give the Bears credit, the Bears got back in it in the second half and then in the second matchup the packers were up by 10:16 to 6 with about 3 minutes and 15 seconds left in the fourth quarter, up by 10 with 3:15 left and they lost in overtime. That was obviously the onside kick debacle. So I think the packers are the better team. But this one I would imagine is going to come down to a couple plays in the fourth quarter again. And can the packers make them?

[James Palmer]

Yeah. And we've seen honestly this season there should be a lot of trust in Caleb Williams to make those plays in game winning drives or gotta have it moments. He's shown us that in terms of the packers quarterback and Jordan Love obviously has the concussion and has now returned. What do you see from him heading into the postseason now? And we've seen him play well on big stage games this year. We've seen him obviously look like a top five quarterback. You and I have talked about him quite a bit on here. The question I get from people around league is can he get rolling? If he gets rolling, I think the quote that I said at the beginning, they can beat anybody is actually very plausible. How much does a healthy Josh Jacobs impact what we're going to see from Jordan Love?

[Matt Schneidman]

Yeah, I think it's big because Josh Jacobs injured his knee, his left knee I should say, in week 11 at MetLife. I think it was the second run of the game that he had banged it on the turf, missed the next game and he's really been fighting through that ever since. He told us yesterday that this is the healthiest he's felt in six weeks. So that'll be huge because he's been limited or not playing at all when they rested starters last week over the last couple weeks. And getting him going against a Bears defense that ranked 27th in rush defense this season would be massive to open up not only, you know, the run game but the play action game as well. Look, you, you were at that Denver game with me when the packers went there a couple weeks ago and entering that game, Jordan Love was third in the MVP odds behind Stafford and Drake May and he lit them up in the first half of that game and then the packers season and Love kind of unraveled there in the second half after Christian Watson's injury, Micah's injury, and Love was under siege from Vance Joseph in the second half and then he gets concussed the next week and he hasn't played since that concussion at Soldier Field midway through the second quarter in Week 16. But for those first 14 weeks and even the first half of Week 15, Love was undeniably a top five quarterback in the league. And this week a lot of the talk has been, all right, well is there going to be any rust? Can he pick up where he left off? And Love is often not long in his answers, but he gives you something. He was very short and even Kurt in that answer that he gave yesterday when he said he has no concerns about potential rust. They've been ratcheting up the intensity in practice. He has his full complement of wide receivers even if he doesn't have tight end Tucker Craft. And like you said, Josh Jacobs is healthy. Zach Tom, their franchise right tackle who is, you know, a Pro bowl caliber player who's battled injury all year and hasn't played since that Denver game, is going to be back this week as well So I see no reason why Love can't play like the quarterback we saw for most of the season.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, I completely agree. And to get a little bit into the scheme or maybe the X's and O's of what we could be looking for when these two teams go at it. What's your thought on how the packers can attack that slot position and using maybe Watson there or however they want to do it in terms of where the Bears are personnel wise there, I think Kyler Gordon's coming back. Right. But just hasn't played a whole bunch. Is that an aspect of this offense that you might have your eye on? Because I've kind of heard that a little bit, yeah.

[Matt Schneidman]

I think something that is unique about the packers offense and Matt LaFleur would certainly say this is they have five receivers, maybe definitely four, probably five that they think can be a number one on any given day. And they're interchangeable too. For example, you saw Watson is your, you know, stereotypical outside receiver, 6, 4 really fast, can burn a guy over the top. But the last game they played against the Bears, he's in the slot. He runs, you know, a quick slant off and off a blitz and beats. I forget who it was. I think it was Chauncey Gardner Johnson.

[James Palmer]

Gardner Johnson, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Schneidman]

And then takes it, you know, 35 yards after the catch for a deep touchdown. Or I think he was. I forget if his first touchdown was from the slot, but it's kind of a deep over route against Kevin Byard and just beats him with speed. So I'm glad you mentioned Watson because his ability to win on the outside and his ability to win in tight spaces on the inside too, because of that speed and his hands ability is an absolute weapon for this packers team. And something to note and something to keep an eye on is it was Watson who tore his acl in week 18 last year against the Bears. They did not have him for the playoffs against the Eagles. Jane Reed, I believe, broke his collarbone against the Eagles in the playoffs. Romeo Dobbs got concussed again in the playoffs. So they were down to their number four wide receiver in the postseason last year. They have their full complement back and. And Watson, I think is the number one guy you look at when you look at those mismatches from the slot. Jaden Reed's another guy who can win with speed. Romeo Dobbs, not so much. And Matthew Golden, I know you and Steve Smith talked about him this week. We just haven't seen him be that featured guy yet. So I don't know if they can rely on him to do that. But guys like Don Tabian, Wicks too, he had a massive game in Detroit and he's another guy that is a really good route runner who can win at the line of scrimmage in tight spaces.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, I love the options. That's the thing. And when you have different corners and guys coming back, how does Matt go against the advantages or maybe some something he sees? Let's flip it on the other side. Diggs, like this doesn't usually happen in the NFL. You know, a starting caliber player joining your group this late, what have you seen? What will we see? Does he change what they want to do? Can some people maybe be more comfortable in other spots if he's added in? What's, what's the take on the secondary now? Because this is again something we don't see very often.

[Matt Schneidman]

Yeah, I think. Well, the secondary as a whole, the packers safety group is, is rock solid with Xavier McKinney and Evan Williams, the second year player who's really done some good things this year both against the pass and the run corner is a big question mark. And it has been for the majority of the second half of the season. Yeah, yeah. It's even more of a glaring weakness when you don't have Micah Parsons getting home in two seconds every play because they have to cover for longer. And you know, coming into this season, they obviously released Jair Alexander and that was obviously the right decision in hindsight. But Keyshawn Nixon, this is the first year he's been the guy since the start of the year. And you know, first half of the season was really good. Second half of the season has not been. And last time they played the Bears, he was the guy that got beat on the DJ Moore game winner on an absolutely perfect throw by Caleb Williams.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, put the hands in the, in the pockets.

[Matt Schneidman]

Yeah. And the thing with this secondary is they didn't go out and get a marquee name. They rode with their guys. Keyshawn's still making, I think 6 million a year. That's not number one corner money, but he's been the number one corner. And their number two has been Carrington Valentine after Nate Hobbs got injured. So with Trayvon Diggs. To bring it back to your original question, Matt LaFleur would not rule out when we talk to him after the Vikings game that Trayvon Diggs will start. I think that was just coach speak. I doubt he's going to start, but I think they're going to find spots for him to play. Maybe not in the nickel because Javon Bullard's done a really nice job there this year. But guys can't stop talking about Trayvon Diggs ability to get the ball. It has not been on display this year, but it's been on display in past seasons in his career. And there is a belief around here. It seems from him and others that a change of scenery and familiarity with college teammates Josh Jacobs and Xavier McKinney and obviously a Cowboys teammate in Micah Parsons who's around the facility but not playing will help him maybe reinvigorate his career. Jeff Halfley said yesterday that when Diggs plays, not if he plays. He said when Diggs plays on Saturday, he will not have any limitations in terms of the playbook. So I don't know if he's going to start, but I think he'll certainly play. And Carrington Valentine, just to finish this point, has really struggled tackling on the perimeter this year. And Diggs, albeit in a limited sample size, he played about half the snaps in Week 18 in his first game, had a couple nice tackles on the edge. So maybe that's something they can take advantage of for a Bears team that has the speed on the edge to beat you on some of those screens. But I think it just gives the packers another body that they even in a limited time can trust in a postseason game.

[James Palmer]

You're right. And you see the Bears getting healthier right. Specifically at the skill spots with Roma Dunes coming seems to be coming back and getting a little bit healthier. But DJ Moore definitely healthier and so you definitely got some people he's that longer like it seems to be more comfortable and press man type of type of player in the way he's at. So we'll see how they kind of really utilize him. You mentioned Micah there a couple of times. This has been a different defense. Let's just be honest with it since Micah has has left and I was kind of looking at some of the stats with it and through weeks one through 14, Matt, and you probably know this, I mean 78 pressures leading the NFL and then when you look at what's happened04 giving up 170.8 rush yards per game since he's been out most in the NFL. We know what the Bears love to do in terms of running the football. Now they haven't run it as well over the last several weeks as we saw maybe during that stretch in the middle where they were outstanding at it. But they have a lot of different motion schemes. Tight ends get involved. How do you see the packers handling that, that Bears run game that is honestly, like, you don't want to say a complex run game, but it is.

[Matt Schneidman]

Yeah, for all of Jerry Jones, you know, proclamations that Mike Parsons wasn't very good against the run. Micah was very good against the run this year. And going into that Ravens game in Week 17, the Packers, I think, were tied for ninth in rush defense this year and they finished the season, I believe, 18th. That's how bad that Ravens game was. So it kind of skewed it. The game before against the Bears was their first game without Micah. They were fine against the run. I think the Bears averaged a little over five yards a carry, but it was, it was more of like a death by a thousand paper cuts. There weren't many explosives and Caleb Williams had 30 of those yards on scrambles. So the run defense as a whole this year has been solid, but without Micah, it's certainly a concern going into the playoffs, especially because you don't have Devonte Wyatt either, and he's your best interior defensive lineman. So it's not just Micah, it's Wyatt. And I would be concerned if on the Packers. I think that's the easiest way for the Bears to make this game close is to run for four or five yards a clip the whole way down the field. Excuse me. And try and keep Jordan Love off the field. Limit the packers possessions. That being said, you need Rashawn Gary to step up and rashawn Gary's making $24 million a year. He's been fine against the run this year, but, you know, transitioning to his pass rushing ability. He has not had a sack since week eight.

[James Palmer]

Are you serious?

[Matt Schneidman]

There are 325 players in the NFL with at least half a sack since week eight. Rashawn Gary is not one of them. And he's making $24 million a year. He had seven and a half sacks in the first seven games and none since. So that is a guy who has needed to step up in Micah's absence, and he has not. Now might be time to put up or shut up for not only this season, but his packers career because he could be a potential cap cut this offseason.

[James Palmer]

Wow. I had no idea the numbers were that jarring since. Since that time. I remember you being in the press box after the Mikey injury and us talking and his importance, but you're like, this is it, man. You were laying it out there when we were talking in the press box. So I get it. And it's. It is it's an interesting run game, too, that they do have to try to stop. I mean, when I talk to people in Chicago, it's, man, our left side's very athletic, our right side's kind of maulers, and they use that to their advantage about how both of those sides work. But within this run game, before we go, I, I, I feel like I'm doing this throughout the entire show. I'm going to do it throughout the entire show. I'm starting with you. Matt LaFleur, should we have our eyes on him? Mike McDaniel just gets let go after he was talking to the media and saying, I'm going to be part of the general manager search, I believe, and just a wild, wild cycle. But I feel like it's just so unpredictable this season. And you've been all over this, Matt, honestly. So what is lafleur's future in your mind?

[Matt Schneidman]

Yeah, just to give the Cliff Notes version of what we know in terms of Ed Policy's thoughts before the season, Ed Policy, first year team president, says that he's not extending Matt LaFleur or Brian Gudekuntz for that matter. But let's keep it to LaFleur right now before the season. Matt LaFleur has this season and next season left on his contract. Ed Policy also said that he didn't want Matt LaFleur in a contract year, which ipso facto means something's going to be done after this season, most likely in terms of an extension or a firing or even a mutual parting of ways. I was told at the beginning of the season that if the packers kind of plateaued or stagnated as a franchise, didn't make the playoffs or maybe went one and done, there was a chance lafleur could use his job. Now Leflore, I think, is a great offensive mind. There is no denying the successes he has brought the packers to. But I think, and I think we've talked about this before on here for Green Bay, there is a different standard. Now. You see, people say if Matt LaFleur was fired, 15 other teams would want him. Yeah, that's probably right. In Green Bay, though, there might be a different expectation for okay, have we reached our potential with this guy just making the playoffs as the seventh seed and losing in the first round is not good enough every year? Now, I'm not saying they're going to lose against the Bears. I don't think they're going to.

[James Palmer]

But they've been seven seed.

[Matt Schneidman]

You're right. Kind of similar to what we saw with Harbaugh it's like time has run its course. I know that was 11 years longer than LaFleur has been here, but there is, I think, credence to the thought that, okay, could. Is this the guy to get them over the top? Obviously, he's the guy to get the most out of Jordan Love. But is he the head coach to get the entire team over the top? I don't know what Ed Policy is thinking right now. You know, I do a podcast with John Kuhn, who obviously played for the packers for 10 years, called the Tundra Shout Out. And John said it's a good shout.

[James Palmer]

Out because it's a good podcast, and.

[Matt Schneidman]

He'S been around the organization forever. And he said, we don't do things speaking as the packers organization, you know, on a whim. Ed Policy is not going to fire lafleur based on this game or extend him based on this game. This. This one game. But it maybe could skew him in. In one direction. If they lose, could that lean toward Policy not willing to pay lafleur maybe what he wants on an extension and it's a mutual parting of ways. Could it mean he. I think there are a lot of things still on the table, Ed Policy. Just the facts of the matter are that he has a tough decision to make, especially if the packers lose to the Bears. So I personally would extend the floor regardless of what happens against the Bears. But nothing is set in stone. And Ed Policy opened the door for us to have these conversations based on what he told us before the season.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, you're right. It's spot on. And you're right, that loss and a kick sailing right for the Ravens did not lose John Harbaugh his job.

[Russell]

Right.

[James Palmer]

And it's very similar sense if something does happen to the packers against the Bears. There is.

[Matt Schneidman]

Can I add one more thing real quick?

[James Palmer]

No, you cannot. Matt, take it. No. Yeah, you can.

[Russell]

Go ahead.

[Matt Schneidman]

I think just very quickly, it's worth pondering whether the fact that they have a future head coach, perhaps as soon as this year in their building Already. People love Jeff Halfley around here. He has gotten a lot out of this defense. I think he's a phenomenal leader. I think he's going to be a great head coach one day. But if Ed Policy is on the fence truly with Matt LaFleur after this season ends, whenever that may be, whether it's Saturday or in Seattle or if he goes beyond that, there's no question about whether they extend him. Could their affinity for Jeff Halfley and the desire to Keep him in the building, which I'm sure they have influence their decision about LaFleur. Just something to consider.

[James Palmer]

Perfect. You're right. And we didn't even get to that matchup out of this. Also because Jeff Affley is just one of the best in the NFL at changing the picture for a quarterback pre snap, the post snap. And that's going to be a lot on Caleb Williams handling everything that Jeff brings to the table. And yes, yeah, there are teams interested, they like them and it's a really, really good point. Matt, enjoy this one. I think we might be talking to you next week if you'll have us.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

I don't know.

[Matt Schneidman]

I will always make time for James Palmer in Scoop City.

[James Palmer]

Clip that off. Perfect. Take it easy.

[Matt Schneidman]

Thanks, James.

[James Palmer]

All right, next stop on our playoff road trip around the NFL on Scoop City, we have Dan Popper joining us for a monster matchup in Foxborough. It's the Chargers facing off against the two seed in the New England Patriots this one Sunday night on NBC, 8 o'. Clock. Now, Dan, I'm going through this and I want you to hear this. I kind of asked around the league, just an opinion, one sentence on each team that's in the postseason. Okay, so first off, let's go with the Chargers. This was a pro personnel director on the NFC side of things, the Chargers quote, they're the Rams of the afc. If they are healthy, they're super dangerous. I kind of see that, actually. And then the Patriots side of things, I love what they've done, but I could see them being one and done. It's an interesting matchup between these two sides. I really think. And it's funny, when I talk to people in New England, it's we really like this matchup. I talk to people with the Chargers, we really like this matchup. Why would the Chargers compared to other AFC teams they could have been slated against, you think feel that way about this matchup against New England?

[Dan Popper]

Yeah, to me it's the fronts like the Chargers are so banged up on the offensive line not having Joe altogether and Rashawn Slater who've both been out for the season. I think you're looking at which teams and which defenses are going to put the most stress on the offensive line. And I don't think the Patriots are in the same category as the Broncos as Houston and so like specifically those teams, even Jacksonville, I mean, you can go watch the film from, from the Chargers game at Jacksonville this year and, and Justin Herbert was getting smoked back there. So I think you start There, you know, obviously Milton Williams, Christian Barmore on the interior, solid players. But I feel like the Chargers look at this matchup and say, hey, we can potentially hang in there and pass protection and give Justin Herbert a chance. Whereas with these other games. And there's proof of concept, right? Specifically with the Broncos and the Texans and the Jaguars, where the Chargers were just not able to hold up. And then also I think you look at the Patriots and I think you can run it on them. I think that's a potential possibility, and I think the Chargers are going to try and do that with Greg Roman calling plays. So I think on that side of the ball, just from a front standpoint, what the Patriots have along their defensive front, that's why I think the Chargers would look at this as potentially promising matchup relative to other teams in the afc.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, I get that too, from somebody in New England. They're like, our pass rush is meh. But maybe against this group with the Chargers, we can get home. So I think they kind of understand that as well in terms of the way it fits. Real quick, is Hampton healthy? Is he going to be able to go? You mentioned running the ball. That's why I wanted to bring that up, because they really, up in New England, have a lot of respect for him as a back.

[Dan Popper]

Yeah, he's awesome. I loved him coming out of North Carolina. I thought it was a slam dunk pick. And early on this season, he was starting to break out. He fractured his left ankle in week five, missed six games, came back, was starting to get on a roll again, and then he twisted his ankle against the Texans, was out in Week 18 against the Broncos. He was working off to the side in practice on Wednesday with a trainer, so it's sort of to be determined. But he did not participate in practice. So the answer is he's not fully healthy. He's working through a real injury with the other ankle, the right ankle, a different one from the one he broke, fractured earlier this season. So sort of a wait and see situation there. But, you know, on the positive side for the Chargers, Kamani Vidal has really broken out this year. He's had a number of really promising games and they trust him. And Jim Harbaugh said this season they view him as a number one back. Now, obviously the running game is very different when you have a player of Amaran Hampton's caliber in there, but they trust Kamani Vidal. And with the blocking up front and going up against this front on the other side with the. With the Patriots, I feel like Kamani Vidal will have a chance to run the football pretty effectively.

[James Palmer]

Okay. That's something I definitely have my eye on. If Hampton can go, I think that's a difference maker right there with, with this offense. And obviously the X factor is Justin Herbert and he got that opportunity to rest. And I know everybody, I, I wanted to say this to you. Everybody you know on the planet has an opinion whether you rest guys or you don't rest guys. I think there was no argument about Justin Herbert and the, the licking he's taken this entire year. But I did have these stats since 2021 with the 18 game schedule. Right. And you can rest that, that your, your quarterback. Nine of 13 quarterbacks who did not attempt to pass in Week 18 essentially rested. Won their first playoff game. All four of them this past year. If you remember, it was Mahomes, Hertz, Allen and Stafford all rested. Week 18. They won their first one. So maybe that's good for the Chargers. But a right Dan is, is, is. He's been hit more than any other quarterback in football. 18 more than any other quarterback in football. He's been pressured 39 times more than any other quarterback in football. Everybody go read what Dan has written on the Athletic about, about Herbert. Toughness, mental toughness. Take us inside that building and like, what have you learned during your time with Justin Herbert that you can kind of tell everyone going, no, no, this guy's just kind of different in how he is able to handle this because I don't know how many guys could handle this and win the way he's winning this year.

[Dan Popper]

Yeah, I mean, you probably start with that Monday Night Football game against the Eagles. Seven days removed from hand surgery. And late in that game they had nothing offensively they couldn't protect, they couldn't run it, they couldn't get into quick game because the Eagles very talented defensive backs and coverage players were playing press and taking away the short area of the field. They needed Justin Herbert to run seven days removed from having a metal plate and multiple screws inserted into his left hand. And he ran for 33 yards on the last two drives of the game. One of them was a tying field goal drive and one of them was a winning field goal drive in overtime. And on that tying field goal drive, Greg Roman called an inside zone to the left side and they just wanted to run it for 2, 3 yards and set up a pretty long field goal for Cameron dicker in the 55 yard range. Justin Herbert saw the edge. Jalen Phillips crashed down, pulled the ball, called his own Number and ran to the outside right. Everyone watching was like, wow, great play Call Greg Roman zone read in that situation. Brilliant. I found out after the game Justin Herbert called his own number and pulled it. And that was a perfect example of what this season has been. They've relied on him. He's had to shoulder a huge weight and he's just been willing to put his body on the line to make plays. He set a career high in scramble yards with 439 yards. And it's been a trend throughout his career. I mean, you can go back to 20, 22, week two in Kansas City, fractured his rib cartilage. I don't even, I still to this day don't even know what that actually means. Yeah, all I know is it's incredibly painful and he could barely move and the next drive he went in there and made the throw of his career. On fourth down to the DeAndre Carter. A lot of people aren't going to remember that play because they lost the game and it was sort of a garbage time throw. But you talk to people in that building and that's the first thing that they bring up in terms of his toughness. So his toughness is out of this world. And to me, like Khalil Mack, when I talked to him about Justin Herbert, said he's the most insanely mentally tough dude of all time. And anybody that knows Khalil Mack knows that he does not say something like that lightly. So the respect that the guys have for Justin Herbert is really rooted in the toughness, mental toughness and physical toughness playing through injury, but also the fact that he's taken all these hits and continued to perform at the highest of levels.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, it's been unbelievable. We had lad McConkey on the show earlier this year and I was kind of asking him like, you know what, what is your take? What have you seen? He was more or less like, the dude's like a Greek God. Like he just somehow herculean performances come out of him to where he just has the ability lights come on. It's like, no, it doesn't matter how banged up I am. I'm going, I'm to going to go make plays and they need him to, to go out and do that. I know you love to get into like the nitty gritty of things and matchups and you always watch so much of, of of other teams. Dan, I'm fascinated by this Patriots red zone offense against this red zone defensive. Specifically in the tight red area that the Chargers have. There's so many different like schemes, personnel things that the Patriots do down there. I think this is one of the things we should be watching, determining the outcome of this game. Your thoughts?

[Dan Popper]

Yeah, absolutely. I think just watching the film on the Patriots, you know, Joshua Daniels gets very creative in terms of different personnel packages, different play calls. You know, go to that Miami game. You know, they have Drake May aligned in shotgun and they spread out to Wildcat. They get Drake May in motion. They've got nine guys in the line of scrimmage. And so Josh McDaniels is going to get into his bag a little bit. That was in week 18, right. Imagine what he's going to do in the playoffs. And obviously we've seen it so much with the Patriots in previous years and different iterations of this club going back. So, you know, the Chargers are a team that since the bye week defensively they've gotten a lot more aggressive on third down and some of these money down situations, red zone where they're going to play a little bit more man coverage. In some of those situations, third down specifically, they were at under 25% for the bye week, 40% after the bye week. I think there's a little bit more trust in the players to play some man coverage and I think they'll be able to match up in some man situations. And you know, one thing I will say is Josh McDaniels will get the running backs activated in the past game. Trevion Henderson or Madre Stevenson both rank in the top 17 and EPA per route among running backs this season. So if the Chargers do man up in some of these red zone situations, third down situations, it's going to be a big game for the linebackers in terms of covering those guys one on one. Dayon Henley, I think is a guy that can match up with the running backs, but you also have to look at Troy Dye, who's a linebacker that comes on and play plays a lot of coverage for the Chargers. So it should be a fascinating matchup, particularly in the areas of the field that you're talking about, the red zone situations. And obviously, you know, third down, you have to throw them to the, to the mix as well. And some of those situational plays.

[James Palmer]

That's a really good point. Do you think they want to bring extra pressure on May? I almost feel like they're. The Patriots would welcome the Chargers blitzing in some of those key spots. It seems like something that May has handled well. What's your, what's your take on that? But it's also coming from Jesse Minter, which is different than maybe some other guys bringing pressure in key situations.

[Dan Popper]

Yeah. So it's interesting, you look at May's numbers against the blitz. Overall, very solid. His numbers against cover zero specifically, not quite as good. And that's something that Jesse Minter has leaned into since the bye week as well. They've gone from like 3% cover zero rate to almost 8%. They're like a top 10 cover zero team since the bye week. And so what they'll do is they'll man up across the board. No, no, no safety and cover zero. They'll send a blitz, but they'll out interior defensive lineman to take away some of the quick game stuff. So I would expect Jesse Minter to continue leaning into that, some, some of that cover zero stuff and trying to, you know, create some of these trap coverages underneath with, you know, guys dropping out from the line of scrimmage and try and bait Drake May into. Into a potential interception. So I, I would think that's a, that's a big part of the game plan. That would be my expectation.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, for sure. Man, we were at that game in week 18. It said like Bo Nicks was kind of looking at everything going. I'm not entirely sure where to go with the football here against this group.

[Dan Popper]

They heated him up too. I mean they like, that was like one of the highest blitz inter's time with the Chargers calling plays. So I think part of that was they, they were, they were limited in terms of edge rushers and so they kind of had to devote more resources because, you know, Colomack wasn't playing, Tuli, Tupelozi wasn't playing. Adafa away was sort of barely playing. But yeah, I mean they've, they've shown on film in the second half of the year that they're willing to be more aggressive. That's the big transition that's happened with this defense that's playing more man coverage and that's blitzing more. And so they can kind of go in different directions on the spectrum as far as, you know, playing more soft zone quarters or they can get aggressive and man you up and send people after the quarterback. And I think that's what makes this defense really dangerous.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, it's, they're super fun to watch too. I'm not going to lie. I just like watching this defense.

[Dan Popper]

Yeah.

[James Palmer]

But we got two more for you. This one right here. I've kind of asked everybody in the show today, is there somebody we're talking about? Herbert. We're talking about may we're talking about these backs. Is there somebody that maybe we're not discussing that might be a key cog to say the Chargers winning this game that maybe, you know, I should be watching, you know, on Sunday night in Foxborough when you're there.

[Dan Popper]

Yeah. So, you know, I think both teams are going to try and run the football. That's just my gut feeling right now. You know, obviously, the Chargers are so good in coverage, and I think Liam Cohen showed this in the Jacksonville game that if you commit to the running game, create some misdirection up front and you continue to run it, that you can find success against this Chargers defense. And I think Mike Vrabel is going to look at that, especially with the two backs that they have, and say, okay, like this is how we're going to be able to be effective offensively because they play so many light boxes and they're going to try and run into those light boxes. So I, I would look on the interior of the Chargers defensive line and I would look at Deshaun Hand, who's been a very important veteran signing for the Chargers, a very, very good run defender. But how those interior players take on double teams in some of these light boxes, try and knock down Ramondre Stevenson, try and knock down Trevion Henderson. And the guy that's really important in that situation is DeShawn Hand. Very stout, the guy that takes on double teams. His partner next to him, tier tart, more of a penetrator, more of a guy that tries to get up field. For me, it's a big game for DeShawn Hand. Some of these light boxes, can he be stout double teams, can he knock down some of these runs in the interior, force the Patriots out of the run game, and then the Chargers can get into some of their disguises and more exotic stuff in known passing situations.

[James Palmer]

I like that. I like that a lot. And if you can, you got to make sure with Trivia Henderson, by the way, that you don't allow explosive runs. Those can change the course of this entire game. I mean, the guy's got four of them over 50, I think, this year.

[Dan Popper]

So, like, I think so much juice.

[Russell]

Yeah.

[Dan Popper]

What a fun player.

[James Palmer]

He's really. Yeah. I'm a Buckeye, so I love him. I was actually curious. I was curious about his slow start, you know, to the point of actually not as a reporter, Dan, but like as a fan. I was like calling people into England. I'm like, hey, just curious.

[Russell]

Why?

[James Palmer]

Because I thought this guy was going to shoot out of the gate. Like, you know, one of the best pass pro guys we've seen coming out in the draft as a back, like, you know, what's the take here? And they were just like, we just run things schematically different than he's used to. And it's taken a minute for him to learn a lot of the stuff with not just the ball out of his hands, which is something I thought he'd do quickly. Actually, some of the stuff we do with the ball in his hand schematically was kind of a slow start for him, but he, he's picked it up certainly of late. Okay, I gotta finish with this because when, when I, we, I mentioned that we were both at this game in week 18 and I spent some time on the Charger sideline before the game and man, the compliments I'm hearing about Jesse Minter is just, it's, it's unbelievable. I mean, you know, the quotes are a star in the making and you know, this guy is ready to be a head coach yesterday. Like you're around him and I know a lot of people want to know why their team should be interested in Jesse Minter. What's kind of the behind the scenes take on what makes him kind of such a viable candidate. When I talk to these people in the building and across the league.

[Dan Popper]

Yeah. So everyone's going to point to the defensive scheme and the defensive play calling. That would be like the fifth item on my list of reasons why Jesse Minter is going to be a great head coach. It's temperament. Like I go Back to week 11, Jacksonville, they got smoked in that game. And he came out after the bye week and spent 15 minutes talking about that game. And you just get the sense that he understands how to communicate. He understands how to tell the truth. He understands how to, you know, have those tough conversations with his players, you know, without being accusatory, holding guys accountable while still building confidence, which is something that he's learned from, from Jim Harbaugh. He is tremendous at delegating responsibility, which to me is so, so, so important, maybe the most important thing for a head coach. So he has these separators, basically the pillars of defense, things like communication, effort and angles, block destruction, et cetera, et cetera. He assigns one of those separators to every sing of his position coaches and on a weekly basis, each position coach gets to present to the entire team about their topic. So, you know, Steve Clinkscale, their defensive backs coach, presents about communication. Mike Elston, their defensive line coach, presents about block Destruction. And so that empowers all of these position coaches to really control a certain facet of the defense from a fundamental standpoint. And then on top of that, what happens is now you have safeties that can go talk to the defensive line coach about block destruction. It creates, you know, a very tight knit group because every position group can talk to every position coach. And I think that's what you see on film. You said you love watching this defense. A big part of what makes this defense great is there 11 is one and they play that way, so. And then the play, I mean the play calling, the scheme is freaking awesome. So I don't want to like, you know, you know, but that's how impressive.

[James Palmer]

You'Re looking at these other traits is because.

[Dan Popper]

But it's a lot of the, like, like the delegation, the temperament, you know, all of that kind of stuff I think is really what's going to make him a tremendous head coach. And you know, if I was running a football team, he would be very, very high on my list of head coaching candidates if I had an opening.

[James Palmer]

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. And for everybody listening or watching, like, what you have to understand is, and I've talked to this to so many times with guys, Dan, that become first time head coaches and after they're run out of town or whatever ends up happening, they go, I didn't realize how much less time I have as a head coach compared to a coordinator. You're meeting with the PR staff every single day. The medical staff is meeting with you every single day. The number of things that you have to do takes up so much of your time and you're still trying to do so much yourself because it's your gig, it's your job. Delegating is just a monster, monster thing to have in my opinion. If you're able to do that right out of the gate is one of the biggest things that guys learn on the job and usually fail at. If he has that before he even gets in the chair, I think is really, really impressive. Dan, enjoy seeing the family, enjoy going back east. Enjoy the Italian food and have the time of your life. We'll talk to you soon. And this was wonderful. Appreciate it.

[Dan Popper]

Awesome. Thanks for having me. James.

[James Palmer]

Yep, no problem. Coming up on Scoop City, we're talking about the three Cs. We got the 49ers and the Eagles. Zach Berman's going to join us. We also have Joe Bastaglia joining us. He's got the Jags and the Bills to break down. Coming up next on Scoop City.

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[James Palmer]

All right, welcome back to Scoop City as we continue our playoff road trip across the NFL. A good friend of the show, Zach Berman joins us, covers the NFL here for the Athletic we have 49ers at Eagles. Zach, I did this throughout the course of the show. It's an executive from around the NFL just saying a sentence about each team and I kind of want to get your take on where this is right off the bat. 49ers, they are overachieving team big time. If they could have secured home field and that number one seed, who knows. But if not, yikes. The other part from an AFC executive was I love what Vick is doing but the offense in quarterback is a major issue. Those quotes right off the bat. Obviously everybody is looking for what's going to happen with this Eagles offense. What's going to happen with Jalen hurts in this group. Is this the type of defense you might want to face in week one? As wounded as they are of the postseason, to get yourself back on track. You tweeted out a and I retweeted an interesting comment. We know Jalen well about the way he, he speaks to the media about him Running. Can you kind of let everybody into what you believe we will see from him running and why that particular comment was, was said in the manner in which it was.

[Matt Schneidman]

Yes.

[Zach Berman]

We've been asking Jalen throughout the season why he's not running as frequently and, and he's essentially saying he's, he's. He's doing what he's, he's being told to do or he's, he's running the play calls. And then it was framed to him on Wednesday that you're healthy now going into the postseason, really, for the first time in his career. This is. I've covered every start Jalen's had here since, since he became the starter in 21. And every postseason there's an injury question of some, some sort, and that's not the case this year. And he doesn't view those two things as related. He says he's just, he's just running the offense as the offensive coordinator coach, kp, as he called him, Kevin Petullo is, is calling it. That said, for this offense to be what it can be and frankly what it needs to be in the postseason, Jalen's legs need to be a major element of it. If you just look at the numbers, the Eagles win at about a 72% clip. Clip in Jalen's career when he rushes for 30 or more yards and when it's, it's fewer than, than 20 yards, they're nine and seven in his career. So it just shows you it's, it's not just his legs, but it's what it does to the entire offense. It will free up Saquon a bit. You look at the three and outs. If he can, if, if he runs more, it changes that equation. He's such an effective scrambler and you go into scramble drills and what that does for A.J. brown and DeVonta Smith. All told, I'm not saying this is like the flip a switch fixes everything, but it does improve the offense if Jalen runs more than he has in the past.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, and the funny part is, Zach, like, obviously Jalen is a mobile quarterback and we've seen him have a lot of success running the football in his career. This is a trend with almost the majority of quarterbacks in postseason play. Mahomes always had a history of running the football more in the postseason than he did during the regular season. We're seeing, look at, look at what Trevor Lawrence is doing down there in Jacksonville now that he's using his legs more frequently and oftentimes during the postseason. That's an added element. You're right. It's so much more important, really, to the way this Eagles offense operated. You saw it with the Ravens, with, with teams not really thinking Lamar Jackson was going to run. You play defense differently. The quarterback sees things differently. There's all these different things at play, and I think it's why everybody's so curious about this, this running situation with Jalen Hurst. And we'll see if that comes into play against this 49ers defense, which, running the football in general, Zach, to me, seems like you can do this against this, this 49ers team. Attack those edges, make the corners, maybe tackle, do some of these different things, do you think? And talking to people around the league, the thought is this, I don't say it's a switch, but you could see Saquon in the run game take a tick up in this postseason. If, say, Lane Johnson is back. What is the situation up front on that offensive line that really just carried this team through the postseason a season ago?

[Zach Berman]

Yeah, the big deal, as you mentioned, Lane Johnson being back, and he hasn't played since the Detroit game, so it's been two months here. He was back on the practice field Wednesday. It's enormous. We all know the numbers. When Lane's out there, they win 69% of their games, 70% of their games since 2016, when he plays. And it's not just having him, although that's. That's a major benefit. He's perhaps the best player in the team, one of the best players in the league. And so you just put him on an island. You don't have to have to worry about anything else. But I think there's an intangible benefit to the team when Lane's there. It affects the entire offense. You know, I mean, just think about when you're on a basketball court and you have your best player there, someone you can get the ball to at all times. When, when Lane's there, just, just mentally, I think it's. It's such an improvement for the team. And the other part, too, you. You mentioned the running game is he's. He's such a complete player. He's so effective in the pass, he's so effective in the run. It would improve the offense. And then you asked about the rest of the offensive line. It was pretty polarizing here, as, as, you know, most things are in Philly, but when Nick Sirianni rested his starters in week 18, but that was done to be fresh going into the postseason. It was a manufactured buy and so Jordan Mylotta, Lane Johnson, Cam Jurgens. It's no secret that they've looked banged up at times this season, right? Getting that week off, getting that bye going into the postseason, I think it's a reasonable expectation for them to look fresher, for them to be stronger. And with the Eagles offensive line can get back to what it was in the past. It changes the complexion of the offense.

[James Palmer]

I think it really does. And I also too think if you have an experienced team with a lot of veterans, you're in a different boat, resting guys and you went to the Super Bowl a year ago compared to teams that might be younger, might be more, you know, more inexperienced in those things. I just think that does play in your favor and what you have, and I don't know it physically like hurt my body to watch Landon Dickerson go through the season. I feel like just, just watching him each and every week try to get out there on the football field. So hopefully they're fresher up front. Zach, let's talk about the matchup that I think is schematically coordinator, first coordinator. I'll just call him a coordinator even though he's the head coach. And Kyle Shanahan versus Vic Fangio. I think this might be one of the most schematic, just like just fun matchups of the entire weekend. The way that they both call their respective units and the way that they coach them at the highest level. When you look at that matchup, the first thing that you're looking for on, on Sunday is going to be what.

[Zach Berman]

The personnel groupings that the Eagles have out there. And the reason I say that is because San Francisco is a two back team. Right. More so than a lot of teams. Eagle. See. And so what personnel groupings do you, do you use against it? Right. So Seattle, interestingly, they, they played almost all nickel and I.

[James Palmer]

Right, exactly. Three safety, nickel. Yeah.

[Zach Berman]

But, but the reality is with, with the way Cooper the gene is, you know, if, if, if you're playing nickel and Cooper's closer to the ball, I think that's a major advantage. Cooper's almost like a linebacker attacker for them. So that's, that's a big thing I'm looking for. And then the way the Eagles combat pressure and the effect that might have, I'm sorry, combat motion and the, the effect that might have on the Eagles pressure and not needing to send blitzers. And then the third thing I would say is Christian McCaffrey catching the ball out of the backfield, George Kittle as the tight end and really put Strain on the middle of a defense. Well, you look at this Eagles defense here. Zach Bond is an all pro level linebacker. They get Nicobe Dean back from injury. Cooper dejean, when, when, when he's in the nickel, he's essentially, you know, linebacker, safety, he can do everything. So the middle of the field is going to be a strength for the Eagles here. When you have Bond, when you have Dean, when you have DeJean.

[James Palmer]

Yeah. And you know what, that middle of the field, the two players you mentioned that Kyle Shanahan is going to have to rely on, whether it's George Kittle or Christian McCaffrey, that's the region of the field that they're going to most likely be used in because they're, they're guys that are tied to the formation, right, Zach? Usually they're guys that are closer towards the middle of the field. What I find as a, as a really big part of this, and I know Trent Williams health is obviously massive. He's just as good of a player as Lane Johnson. These guys are in a unique category. But I think Ricky Pearsall is a huge aspect for the 49ers in what you're saying, right. He's a guy that is off the formation that they need. He, as a route runner, he fits what Kyle wants to do really, really well. And his availability or in availability really, I think plays a huge part in what Kyle Shanahan wants to be able to do, do with Brock Purdy and that entire group. I wanted to ask you about somebody just. There's so many stars on that defense and so many guys that deserve attention. Reed Blankenship, like his role in the way that this defense is run and, and it might not show up in the stat sheet. And you just, I thought of it because you mentioned the middle of the field. What kind of players. I do think they're, they're better at safety than people think.

[Matt Schneidman]

Yeah.

[Zach Berman]

Yeah, it's a good question. I'm glad you, you, you brought that up. This is a, you know, defensive captain, not someone who, who is kind of the household name in, in the sense of some of the other players I mentioned, whether it's, you know, Jalen Carter or Zach Bond or Cooper the Jean or, or, you know, Quinon Mitchell. But Reed is so steady for them. Number one, he's, he's important in, in terms of setting the backup, he can make plays on the ball. We've, we've seen that over his time as a starter. And the other thing, and, and this is, is the reality of it is Oftentimes when you assess a player, you also have to look at the delta between him and the next guy on the depth chart. And the Eagles are thin at safety. This is not a position of strength for them. So if Reed Blankenship were not on the field, the Eagles, their Eagles defense would really feel the effect of it. Whereas there are some other spots, you know, Jalen Carterson, an all world player, the Eagles are loaded at defensive tackle. When they missed Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis had a big game. Morrow Ojimo had big games, you know, Brendan Graham, Bell side. And that's not to say Reed Blankenship's more important than Jalen Carter, but if, if Reed Blankenship wasn't on the field, you're looking at Sidney Brown and Marcus Epps, right? So it's, it's, it's a different situation. And so, so Reed Blankenship's importance is both the way he plays, but also they don't have a lot of guys behind him either.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, the communication aspect, all those things he brings to the table, I think in the middle of the middle of the field is why I kind of thought of it as well with the way you brought up Kyle Shanahan attacking that spot. Is this defense good enough to carry them through the postseason, Zach? I mean, they're playing really, really well. Are they good enough to carry them, you think?

[Zach Berman]

Absolutely. And first off, do you think that needs to be the case? Yeah, I mean, I think the offense, the offense has the talent to be better than what it's been, but the reality is when you're in January, I know you can pick it up a notch. And Eagles have scored eight more points per game in this playoffs, in the regular season, in 24 and in 22. So there is that, that flip a switch component of it. But you kind of are what you are too, right? I mean, you know, this is that this is the group that they have. The defense is more proven, the defense has carried them. You look at the win over Buffalo, the win over Green Bay, the win over Detroit. It's been the defense since Vic Fangio has been the defensive coordinator. If you include the postseason, no team has allowed fewer points per game than the Eagles. Fangio is the star of this group from, from my perspective. And you, I'm glad you brought up them carrying him because you just look at the offenses in the NFC. Four of the top 10 teams in the NFL and scoring offense are in the NFC and teams that they might have to play in the playoffs, certainly San Francisco this week. But the Los Angeles Rams, potentially the Chicago Bears, potentially the Seattle Seahawks. Right. So in order for the Eagles to get to the super bowl, to get there in back to back years, potentially win it back to back years, it's going to take this defense. Stopping top offenses.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, it really. And they're a fun group to watch. I mean, it's just the way they've embraced the way Vick plays is outstanding. Okay, last one before we go. We mentioned how much of a battle this is of strengths.

[Russell]

Right.

[James Palmer]

Between the 49ers offense and the Eagles defense. We all assume there is a dramatic advantage because of injury, because of everything that's gone on with the Niners defense, that that Eagles offense has the advantage. If this Eagles offense does sputter, what will the conversation be after. After Sunday?

[Zach Berman]

It's. It's a valid question and it's. It's one, as you can imagine James being from here, that, you know, it's all over the Philly radio waves right now.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Zach Berman]

They're gonna look at the offensive coordinator and you can say fair or unfair. The reality is the quarterback and the head coach, Jalen Hurts and Nick Sirianni have far more equity. I mean, they've, they've won Super Bowls in their roles. You know, Jalen Hurts is a Super bowl mvp. Nick Sirianni has a better winning percentage than any coach in the NFL. Kevin Pitullo's new in his role. I know he's not new in Philly. He's been a part of this offense. But this is first year calling plays. And the reality is this is the least efficient and the least productive offense that the Eagles have had in five years under Nick Sirianni. So if they're one and done in the postseason or they sputter offensively in the postseason, the place where you're going to look for improvement is probably the play caller. And the reason I say that is the last time they were one and done in 2023, what did they do? They changed the play caller.

[Matt Schneidman]

Man.

[James Palmer]

There's never shortage of storylines. Even when you think they got maybe an advantage in the game. It's not going to really.

[Zach Berman]

But it is important to know the narrative could change too, right? I mean, if, if they get to the championship game, they get to the super bowl, it's going to be with this offense. It's not just the defense. It's not going to be winning games. 13:10. They'll be scoring into the 20s if they play deep into the playoffs.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, really good point. Really good point, Zach. Awesome. Stuff. As always, good catching up with you. I can't wait to see you face to face in a couple of months. It's going to be wonderful.

[Zach Berman]

Look forward to it.

[Russell]

Thank you.

[James Palmer]

All right, man, see you. All right, moving on, on our playoff road trip around the NFL, Joe Biscalia joins us, covers the Bills Brill immediately. For the Athletic, it is Bills at Jaguars Sunday 1pm on CBS. And Joe, I'm going to, I'm going to bring this in. I'm saying this with every single game. I talked to some people around the league. I want one sentence from each team about them. With the Bills, this is a NFC general manager. They could boat race the AFC or go one and done. They're so inconsistent. All right, Jags. This is coming from an AFC pro personnel individual. No idea what to think of this team, but Liam Cohen has been coaching his ass off. Interesting two teams with this. Joe, to me, this is the bummer of a game for the whole weekend because I really like both teams and I want to see both teams advance. Obviously it can't happen. The first thought that I have is where is Josh Allen health wise? Everybody is fascinated about the foot. When you go and get X rays multiple times after games, everybody just kind of tightens up. And the way he plays is so important. Specifically off structure. Where are we with Josh? Will we get the full MVP experience?

[Russell]

I think you will based on what I saw just from him running around the facilities late last week. And even you go back and watch his, his introduction into what's likely to be the final game over at the old Highmark Stadium. He was sprinting out of that tunnel. The foot did not seem like it was laboring him whatsoever. And then just all arrest like he really hasn't played a football game by the time Sunday rolls around in two weeks. So it is the just what the doctor ordered for him. He's moving around really well. There's no noticeable limp anymore as there as there was maybe a little bit earlier into last week. So I think. And we also know that with Josh Allen, he will fight through just about any injury to stay on the field, even a broken nose earlier in the season against the Jets. And I am of the estimation that we are going to see that Josh Allen that, that everyone knows to be in that in the playoffs like he, like he usually does.

[James Palmer]

I hope so because that's what we're looking for, right? We don't have Joe Burrow, we don't have Lamar Jackson, we don't have Patrick Mahomes. Hey, Josh. It's all on you now for our excitement of guys that just play at a different complete level than everybody else that is out there. When you look at this Jaguars defense and it's funny, I was having this conversation with Broncos linebacker Justin Stroud, who I think is one of the smarter players in this league, but a backup and was injured further a game against Jacksonville and he was like, man, since I was hurt, I was just watching the group and I was like, they do everything right. They don't do anything wrong. They're just really well coached. Fundamentals are great. Like they kind of mix schemes together, whether it's kind of what Vic Fangio does and kind of keeps you in contain and then also brings pressure at times at the right moments. What's going to be on Josh's plate when he's looking at that Jaguars defense about where you think he can possibly attack it because it's not a defense that you have a lot of household names but it seems like everybody does their job right.

[Russell]

Yeah, I think that's the perfect way to put it. And the Jaguars are a lot like the Bills have been throughout the years where it's, it's not really about the players specifically on the defense. It's about the, the sum of the whole of everyone on that defense. And they play predominantly zone. When you go and look at, you go and look at their metrics and that's a lot of what, how the Bills kind of cut their teeth too. You know, they, they rotate a ton. There's, there's a lot of similarities there based on how how the Bills operate. So I think for the Jags and, and how the Bills will want to attack them. We've heard the Bills talk about all season long about this desire to have this two dimensional offense and they've done it at times. But you know, I feel like every time I come on Scoop City with you, James, it is. We're talking about the wide receiver group and it's just, it's just been the, it's been the story of their season as to whether or not they can be consistent enough to attack teams through the air. Now what I will say from what kind of benefits the Bills in this matchup is because the Jaguars are so, from what it seems, reliant on turnovers and maybe less so on pass defense. I do think there will be some opportunities specifically with a healthy Dalton Kincaid and them and the Bills really honing in on three receivers who they believe will be their, their top guys heading into the postseason in Brandon Cooks which he arrived in week 13, which just tells you the state of it. Khalil Shakir and Tyrell Shavers, who's like the run blocking guy. And then you combine that with this strength on strength matchup of Jaguars run defense versus a Bill's rushing offense. Bills have an excellent offensive line. James Cook won the rushing title. All of these different things. I do say. I, I will say when I went back and watched some Jaguar stuff, I specifically wanted to watch the Jags Broncos game because I feel like that might be a good representation of how the Bills could move the ball. The Jaguars, and they actually popped the Jaguars for some runs in that, in that game. And I do think there, there will be some opportunities, even if the statistics aren't there heading into this game of the Jaguars being such a good run defense.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, that's a really good point. And I love that you brought up the corners because that's one aspect and everybody keep an eye on this. When these two go at it is that they like to bring those corners in pressure too. They're part of their pressure packages. And if they don't have a huge concern on outside, you know what I mean, with, with the way the Bills are built, do they find different moments where they just feel like they can, can take advantage of using those guys and some of their pressure packages? I think that's a really good point. You brought up the corners there for Jacksonville. You mentioned run defense. I'm just kind of curious about the Bills run defense and where that stands because Jacksonville will run the football and they will run it with multiple backs. And the other part that stands out to me is as this season's gone on, specifically on the back end, using Trevor Lawrence in the run game as well. He's way more athletic than people probably give him credit for or understand. He's a massive, massive human being. But I think he's got nine rushing touchdowns this season. How do the Bills, if they can fix their run defense? It's been something that's been talked about all season.

[Russell]

I'm going to say something that's slightly controversial.

[James Palmer]

Oh, let's go.

[Russell]

And this, this is just for me, you know, you know me, James. I watch, I watch the film and yeah, I'm, I am here to tell you that this Bill's defense, the numbers and what everyone talks about, what, what they are and what they have been this season, they are what they are from earlier in the season, the last two months, this Bill's defense has been good. And run defense, they will allow a big Pot play here, here or there, but for the most part, consistency down and down out, it has gotten so much better and I think part of that has been the introduction of Shaq Thompson to the linebacker room as one of their starters. I think certainly their rookies on the defensive line growing up a little bit like Deon Walker, their fourth round pick who's been a starter for them week in and week out. TJ Sanders has start started to play better. The defensive ends have played better and more specifically the back end like Cole Bishop has been outstanding since basically the bye week and he showed flashes of it even before the bye week. He's been one of their most important defenders. So they have some guys on each one of these levels to where I don't see the Bills defense as being such a significant weakness as I think what is the national perspective on them? Will they allow some plays? Sure, yeah. And that's been a kind of their story specifically on like third downs, those gut punching plays, like it happens against some of these teams against them and that's why they're not in elite defense. But. But I could sit here and say very capably that I think this is a, you know, top half of the league defense based on what we've seen in the last couple of months. And that combined with Josh Allen, I think could have some success in this postseason. Now, it all depends on what offense you'll see, but there's a lot of times in the last couple of months, James, that the defense has been the one picking up the offense and setting the table for them. And I think that that would be a surprise to most people.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, I think Stephen, our producer would absolutely love you for everything you just said because he's got his fingers crossed for this weekend as a massive Bills fan of trying to make sure that they can get out of this wild card round if there's a player. And I've kind of done this throughout the show. We talk about Josh Allen, we're going to talk about Trevor Lawrence, you know, we talk about all these, all these big name type of players. Is there somebody, and you mentioned a couple of them maybe with that defense, but is there somebody that has to step up or somebody that's maybe a little bit under the radar, could be in the trenches, could be, you know, could be cooks, I don't know. But somebody that you think will be talking about maybe after this game that maybe we weren't exactly circling prior to this matchup?

[Russell]

I think there is a definitive possibility that people around the country start to really know who on the Bill's defense Christian Benford is and who Cole Bishop is. I know Benford has a little bit better of a reputation league wide than.

[James Palmer]

Maybe still not enough.

[Russell]

I don't think though I, I, I totally agree. He stole the Pittsburgh game. He stole the Cincinnati game. Right, right. From both of those, right from both of those teams. And it was the defensive effort of what the Bills did even though they allowed 30 points to burrow and the Bengals. But it's burrowing the Bengals when they were at their peak and they had T. Higgins in that game too. It he that play that he made where Joe Burrow tried to loft it over him on, on a blitz and Benford picked it off high, pointed it and then ran it back for six. I mean that was one that was probably the play of, of the Bills defensive season right then and there. And then Cole Bishop too. I talked about him before. He's in a second season. Their safety play is so important to what they do on a week to week basis. And Bishop basically from the time the bye week came in week six, he has leveled up in a way that they were only hoping for to where he is one of their best defensive players. He is one of their most important players on the team. He's out there every single snap. He's instinctive, he sniffs out plays, he plays hunches correctly usually and, and he's not afraid to make a big hit. So he's just kind of become an all around safety for them. But it's also tough because it's, it's a safety and you don't really see him on the screen all that often. But I will say that Bishop is, is prone to make some big plays from here or there and I would not be surprised if, if he makes the playoffs. One of those moments.

[James Palmer]

I love that you mentioned Christian Benford because you're right. The way he's played, I got the stats in front of me. Since Week 6 he's allowed the lowest passer rating in all football, a 41.4, the third lowest completion percentage in the NFL. He's allowed since Week 6 he's played outstanding. And that leads me to my kind of under the radar guy because we know what Jacoby Myers can do in the middle of the field. That's kind of opened up this entire offense. You know what Brian Thomas Jr. Can do going down the field potentially for some big plays. Parker Washington might be my under the radar guy. And when I covered that Jags Broncos game and I talked to People in that locker room talking to different receivers. It was like he's kind of our. Our secret weapon because of what Jacobe draws to the middle of the field and the attention and the success. Now for the first time in Trevor Lawrence's career, we're seeing him attack the middle of the field with some success. And Brian has the big playability. Parker Washington's over there in a favorable matchup against a third corner a lot of times, and they like to utilize that this back end of the year since Jacoby Myers arrived. So that's kind of one of the guys that I'm looking at. I mentioned Trevor Lawrence and this is the best that we've seen him, Joe, honestly. And when I talk to people around the league, it's. Liam Cohen is a big part of that. He unlocked him. He created some of this confidence. He got him playing with a lot of confidence, got him getting a little swagger to him that people weren't sure if Trevor had that. That does this. Bill's defense fear Trevor Lawrence because of the way his career has gone, or are they looking more at, like, way he's played lately? This is one of the better quarterbacks in football.

[Russell]

Yeah, I think they have a heartier amount of respect for what both Trevor Lawrence and Liam Cohen have been able to do down the stretch of the season. But even before that, you know, Liam Cohen, this. The year didn't exactly go the way that they would have wanted it to start and to rip off the amount of game, you know, look at your schedule all you want, but they ripped off all those games in a row to where it. It deserves some respect. And, you know, besting a team like the Texans in that division and being able to win the division outright is. Is certainly an accomplishment in itself. So I think the Bills have a hearty amount of respect for them, but I. For Trevor Lawrence. But I don't think it's going to be one of those matchups to where, you know, they shift around their entire defensive identity to try and cater to what they think would best stop him. Because there we. We know those matchups like the Mahomes, the Lamar Jacksons, like I'll never forget the divisional round last year when the Bills and their defensive coordinator, Bobby Babbage, completely flipped their tendency and went basically all man against the Ravens in that matchup up shut him down with a quarterback spy, didn't allow him to rush all that much. And it was just a. It was a beautiful moment. But it's that type of quarterback that. That leads you to do that sort of stuff. Do I think Trevor Lawrence is good? Do they think Trevor Lawrence is good? Absolutely. Are they going to shift their principles for him? I'm not as sold on. On that. They'll. They'll try to institute some pressure where they can, some simulated pressure, some timely blitzes here and there. But for the most part, I think they'll. They'll. They'll try and play him pretty straight up.

[James Palmer]

Okay, I get it. I get it. All right, before you go, this is just the strange question that I feel like I'm asking so many guys that are making the playoffs or teams that have had head coaches that have been embedded in that team for a long time, but John Harbaugh departing the Ravens throws everything for a loop. I'm going to ask Mike defebo this later in the show when we go over Mike Tomlin. Do you think if anything goes terribly wrong down in Jacksonville, that the Bills would even consider or think or make a move with Sean McDermott, as they've been so close for so many years, but haven't essentially gotten completely over the hump? And this year, they're in a postseason without Mahomes, without Burrow, without Lamar Jackson.

[Russell]

You can never say never. But I will say I do not get that sense whatsoever. I mean, Sean McDermott is beloved here. He is beloved by ownership, and I think that's a very important segment. And I. And I will leave you this little aside here, this little anecdote. Owners, the owner of the Bills also own the Buffalo Sabres, the NHL team here in Buffalo.

[James Palmer]

I know about the NHL.

[Russell]

I. I figured. I figured you're a. You're a Pennsylvania guy.

[James Palmer]

Flyers, let's go. Well, yikes. Okay, go ahead.

[Russell]

Yeah, but they took almost six full seasons to fire their general manager, who was just bad result after bad result, embarrassing press conference after embarrassing press conference, that. That sort of thing. And it took them a long time to finally get there. This is not an ownership group that just flies off the seat of their handle and makes impulsive decisions like that. So, you know, never say never. And because you never know what the. What the stakes and what happened in that specific game. But. But I would say at this point in time, I would be very shocked. Okay.

[James Palmer]

I hate asking that question also because Sean's a. You said I'm affiliate. Sean's affiliate guy. Let's go.

[Russell]

Oh, yeah.

[James Palmer]

You know, through and through. LaSalle Prep. Let's let it rip, then. And so I hate asking these questions because all these guys are really good coaches. Sean, Mike, Tomlin, John Hart. I mean, they're good coaches, but it's just been such a unique season and just a different feel to it in so many different places. I got to ask you, and I knew you'd know. Know the answer. Enjoy. If you can spend some time on the beach down there in Jacksonville, maybe get around to golf in. I'm not sure. But enjoy the parking lots as well because I hear like the last time, you know, it's been. Been wild down there.

[Russell]

Yeah. If I know one thing about, if I know one thing about Bill's fans, they will be well traveled for this game. They love an excuse to go to Florida anytime in the winter. And here it is. Even even though the price, the plane tickets were crazy. I'm sure people will be, you know, getting into cars with each other and making that, whatever, 16 hour trek.

[Matt Schneidman]

Yeah.

[James Palmer]

I was about to say, I bet you they're driving. Come on now. You're gonna drive. Prices, campers, everything.

[Russell]

It's gonna, it's gonna be very unique down in Jacksonville, I'll say that.

[James Palmer]

I love it.

[Russell]

I love it.

[James Palmer]

Awesome, Joe. Enjoy it. We'll be talking to you next week, most likely. Coming up on Scoop City, we're gonna talk to Mike Defebo, who's gonna talk about the Pittsburgh Steelers and Texans matchup. What does Aaron Rodgers and that group have to do to who come away with a win at home even though they, you know, might be a long shot?

[Russell]

We'll see.

[Matt Schneidman]

Coming up.

[James Palmer]

Scoop City.

[Christine]

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[Russell]

Hey, podcast listener.

[James Palmer]

We'd like to hear what you think.

[Russell]

About podcasts, including this one, and offer you a chance at a $100Amazon gift card. Just go to podcastsurvey co. We're Signal.

[James Palmer]

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[Russell]

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[Russell]

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Painful.

[James Palmer]

Welcome back to Scoop City. James Palmer here with you. We are going to talk about the Monday nighter. It is the Pittsburgh Steelers hosting maybe the hottest team is in football in the Houston Texans is on ESPN Monday night, 8 o' clock and I talked to an executive with each team with an NFL GM said the Texans are the Philadelphia Eagles of the afc. Makes sense. And the AFC assistant general manager I spoke to said I'll never count out Aaron Rodgers, but I don't see them making a run. Mike defebo joins us and he covers this Pittsburgh Steelers team for us. And Mike, with both of those things said, I know obviously you have a lot to glean in on the Pittsburgh Steelers, but when I mentioned the hottest team in football might be the Houston Texans and the way that defense is playing, if you're Aaron Rodgers and you're Arthur Smith, what are you most concerned with? Is it the pass rush with the edges? Is it maybe the best secondary in football? Like where would your focus go when we're watching Monday?

[Mike Defebo]

I think the pass rush is the thing that's most concerning for Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers. And you only have to go Back to Week 17 against the Cleveland Cleveland Browns. And look, I know that Miles Garrett did not break the sack record against the Steelers. In fact, he barely had any stats against the Steelers. But his mere presence caused the Steelers to change the way that they wanted to play. They had to get the ball out of Aaron Rodgers hands very quickly and in that game without DK Metcalf.

[Russell]

Less.

[Mike Defebo]

Than remarkable cast of wide receivers.

[Matt Schneidman]

Very. I like that.

[Mike Defebo]

I'm diplomatic sometimes like that. Yeah, they really struggled to get open in man coverage. And so now you go against a team that doesn't just have one Miles Garrett, they kind of have two coming off of both edges. And additionally in this game the Steelers don't have their big 6 foot 7, 311 pound tight end Darnell Washington who would typically be a really huge part of that pass protection plan. So I think keeping Aaron Rodgers upright, giving him enough Time to throw the football and giving him time to work through his options. I think it's really going to be the biggest challenge for the Steelers in this game.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, I think you're right. It's that speed that Houston plays with.

[Russell]

Right.

[James Palmer]

When I talk to people down there in Houston and Matt Burke, you know, takes over play calling from d'. Amico. Ryan's our defense coordinator, who a lot of people in this league kind of feel like has a potential being a future head coach. But when I, when I speak to them, Mike, it's essentially if it slows us down, we throw it out during the week. Like we are playing as fast as humanly possible with our hair on fire, sticky coverage on the back end, get to the quarterback as quickly as possible. That's just, just the way they play. And we've seen at times this Steelers offense be very successful with a. The quick passing game, the short stuff to dk. I know that they want to get downfield to DK at times, and they want to be able to do that. He returns in this game. What is the vibe around dk? Obviously, they didn't want this to happen, and he's probably, along with Chris Boswell, the two happiest people in all of Pittsburgh that they are in the postseason. What's the sense on DK and how important he. He's going to be now that he's off this suspension?

[Mike Defebo]

Well, I think that he and the Steelers breathed a bit of a sigh of relief because we could be here right now talking about how DK Metcalf suspension derailed the Steelers season and how they finished in a tailspin with two. Two losses. And now we're talking about Mike Tomlin's job security instead of talking about what the Steelers were missing without DK Metcalf. Now we're having a conversation about what he adds. And I think that it is really significant because coming into this year, you could argue the Steelers created a wide receiver room that was really similar to last year, with one star receiver, a big gap in everybody else. And DK Metcalf through the first 16 weeks of the season, he received 22% of the targets. That was only 16. Wide receivers were targeted more frequently than DK Metcalf within that offense, not to mention just all of the attention that he draws. You see teams defend him in a variety of ways, whether that's clouding coverage his way or whether that's just pure double teams, whatever it might be. He's creating opportunities for other guys, even if he isn't Getting the football. And so especially given the way the Steelers structure their roster, he is such a huge part of what they're going to do, even if he's not getting.

[James Palmer]

The football a lot. Yeah, that's a really good point. I'm fascinating to see where they put them, honestly, because if you look at the way this secondary is built in Houston, you have Jalen Petrie, obviously an outstanding safety. I think Calen Bullock, he's been on our show, maybe the one most underrated safeties in all football. But with the corners, Stingley plays on the right, Lassiter plays on the left, they don't change sides. Stingley is as good as he is, doesn't really follow. I'm kind of curious how Art kind of moves DK around to maybe find those matchups that they might favor, because I know they need to get him the football with Aaron Rodgers, and he can put it anywhere he really wants to if he has time. Is there a player in this game, and I've been doing this throughout the show that maybe we're not talking about. We're talking about Rogers. We're talking about, you know, dk, these, these edge rushers with, with Houston, maybe somebody that may play a key factor in this game that maybe everybody at home isn't thinking about. Is there somebody you have your eye.

[Russell]

On for Monday night?

[Mike Defebo]

Well, someone we haven't talked about yet is Joey Porter Jr. So the last time the Steelers played the Houston Texans was 2023, and the Steelers got smashed down in Texas. Okay. And Nico Collins went absolutely off in that game for nearly 170 receiving yards and two touchdowns. That was week four of Joey Porter Jr. S rookie season. And at the time, Joey was still kind of a situational contributor, playing mostly when they went to their dime defense. And in that game, he played only 10 snaps. And after the game, Mike Tomlin was asked, are you going to be making some changes after a game like this? And he's like, hell, yeah, we're making changes. We can't just keep doing the same things and expect different results. And almost from that exact moment, the Steelers realized they needed to accelerate the process of integrating Joey Porter Jr. Into their defense. And he very quickly after that, went to playing 100% of the snapshot, and at times, even in his rookie season, was shadowing and following an opponent's top weapon. So I don't know that he's necessarily going to shadow Nico Collins. I actually would be surprised if he does, but he's going to be on him a fair amount in this game. And I think it's really a test of Joey Porter Jr's progress because he has gone something like over a thousand coverage snaps without allowing a touchdown. But the one thing that has plagued him over the years has been he's been a bit handsy and drawn a lot of penalties, especially against. Against physical receivers like T. Higgins. When he goes against T. Higgins, that's always a tough matchup for Joey.

[James Palmer]

Yeah, we know Nico's a bigger receiver.

[Russell]

Right.

[James Palmer]

And he's got six touchdowns this season. I'm going to go with my unsung player, the guy that maybe nobody's paying attention to as Jaden Higgins, the other receiver that they have. He's third on these, the rookie coming out of Ohio State, of Iowa State. I just got Ohio State on the mind all the time out of Iowa State. I. I just talked to some people down there this week, Mike, and they were saying, and he's actually faster in pads than he was at his 40 coming out this past year. And they think his breakout as he's gone this way all season as kind of their third option behind Nico and Dalton Schultz, and they feel like his breakout could potentially happen in the postseason. With what you said, maybe CJ starts seeing I might have to go somewhere else with the football. I kind of have my eye on Jaden Higgins with. If Houston wants to throw the football, we know that. That C.J. stroud is going to need a little bit of time. It seems like third down. He's running for his life oftentimes this season. And we know that the Steelers can get after the quarterback at times. Has it been consistent? But what did you see from this Week 18 game? Specifically, just a gutsy effort from TJ Watt coming back. And when I speak to other teams, it seems like they're like, I don't know, man. There's been times we've been more concerned about Alex Highsmith, honestly, just the way he's playing and. And we know the offensive line issues that Houston has. What do you think up front for Pittsburgh? Do they have a distinct advantage that they can get to the quarterback and that they can do this consistently? Because that seems to be the word there.

[Mike Defebo]

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head there because when I look at all the different matchups, I think that this is one of the ones the Steelers really need to win and win in a big way in. In order to come out with this win and. And advance to the next round. And everyone knows what T.J. watt is. T.J. watt when he's healthy and he has a fully intact lung. He true though? I mean, it's true. Well, and also I'll add something else and every year at this time of year, TJ Watt decides that he has no time for hair and he goes to what I call buzz cut. T.J. watt. It's like his alter ego. That's going to free up more opportunities for Alex Highsmith. And Highsmith is a talented edge rusher in his own regard. And a couple years ago he got paid. Unfortunately, the last two years on this new contract he's been a bit injury plagued and even this year he's endured a couple different injuries. So he's going to be healthy in this game and I think that he can be a big factor. And another part of that is Nick Herbig. When the Steelers get into third down situations, they bring in Nick Herbig and they have three outside linebackers on the field at the same time. Often they're rushing Nick Herbig over a guard or doing some different kind of stunts and games up front with him. So I think that those three guys, T.J. watt, Alex Highsmith, Nick Herbig, they need to have huge games if the Steelers are going to get this win.

[James Palmer]

A lot of the old NASCAR packages the teams call it, right? A couple of pass rushers out there going after C.J. stroud. It's only almost like at times the the Texans offense doesn't have answers and it's like CJ Make a play on third down, we'll see if they can. He can scramble around and do something. Before we go, Mike, I gotta ask you, we saw John Harbaugh and it wasn't a parting of the ways. It was he was fired by the Ravens. A lot of people thought the loser that Week 18 game was a team to keep an eye on and we obviously kept our eye on the Ravens and something ended up happening with John. I don't think Mike Tomlin's ever going to be fired. I just don't believe that. But do you think if this doesn't go well by any stretch in this game that this could be Mike Tomlin's last game as they're looking at all these different things down the line with where the age of this roster is and everything else with the quarterback, do you think that's even a possibility after Monday night?

[Mike Defebo]

I think a lot of it is in Mike Tomlin's hands because the Steelers, as you know, they value continuity, stability and I think especially the way, the emotional way in which they won that game to win the division I think that that secured Mike Tomlin's job from an Art Rooney and from a team perspective. But the question that I've had throughout the season is if you're Mike Tomlin and you've never had a losing season and you just matched Chuck Noll with 193 regular season wins and you did it in 33 fewer games and you're hearing fans in your own city chanting, fire Tomlin, at what point do you say, you know what? I don't want to continue to coach in a city that doesn't appreciate me anymore. And so if, if, and it's a big if, if there is some kind of a breakup, I think Mike Tomlin would have to be the one that initiated it. But this is still a really important game for Mike Tomlin's legacy and for his job approval rating within Pittsburgh. Because I mentioned that stat about Chuck Noel and it's a remarkable stat that he was able to do it in 33 fewer games.

[James Palmer]

I didn't know that.

[Mike Defebo]

But when you, but when you mention it, you know the people who doubt Mike Tomlin and want him out and we're chained. Fire Tomlin. Their immediate response would be, well, regular season games, how many Super Bowls does he have? When was the last time he's won a playoff game? And it's been nearly nine years at this point. And so I think that it's important for him to finally crack through in the postseason because ultimately, for right or wrong in Pittsburgh, coaches, teams, players are judged by what they do in January and February. And it has been a long time. It's been Since January of 2017 since Mike Tomlin has won a playoff game. So I think this one, it might not determine his job security, but I think it's important for his legacy and for his approval rating to get the win against the Houston Texans.

[James Palmer]

That's well put. Thank you so much. Because I didn't have all that information. That's why you do what you do. I appreciate it. I, I, it's kind of similar to what happened to John Harbaugh, right? It's like, hey, man, you had all these years with Lamar Jackson and we haven't gotten to a Super Bowl. The farthest we've gotten to is, is hosting an AFC championship game that we were favored in. I was at and they lost. It's going to be interesting. I am curious in the, in the near future though, what Mike can do within managing this game, honestly, because of the way Houston has played in the fourth quarter and NFL best plus 78 point differential, NFL best plus 11 in the turnover differential in the fourth quarter. Last two teams to season in both of those. Well, they won the super bowl. So it's interesting what's what Houston has done late in games. We know how good Mike is at managing games and I think you might have to do some of that in in this game against Houston. Mike, appreciate it. We'll be talking to you after I think this game on Monday, no matter what. What do you think?

[Mike Defebo]

Yeah, I think so.

[Dan Popper]

No matter what.

[Mike Defebo]

Whether the Steelers win and move on. And we're talking about them being this surprise team that maybe Aaron Rodgers is making this storybook run or more and more questions about the uncertainty of Aaron Rodgers future, Mike Tomlin's future. They're going to be an interesting team to follow going forward, no doubt.

[Russell]

Yeah.

[James Palmer]

Appreciate it. I miss talking to you in your car though, by the way. This is weird for me.

[Mike Defebo]

Hey, next time I see you, I'll.

[Dan Popper]

Give you a ride.

[James Palmer]

Oh, let's go. We'll roll down the windows here.

[Mike Defebo]

It's nice and sunny out in Pittsburgh for once. It's like 60 degrees but game time. Supposed to be back down to Pittsburgh, 30 degree weather, so don't worry about that.

[James Palmer]

Okay, Houston dome team, everybody talk about it. Mike, appreciate it.

[Mike Defebo]

Thank you so much.

[James Palmer]

All right, that'll do it for our Thursday road trip around the NFL postseason edition. I love talking to all these guys. It takes you inside all of these facilities across the NFL. I want to thank Matt Schneider, Dan Popper, Zach Berman, Joe Biscalia, Mike Defebo, everybody bringing the noise today. Enjoy your weekend of playoff football. And if your team is looking for a head coach, may you get everything that you desire. Take it easy, everybody. Par le tu francais, hablas espanol?

[Russell]

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[Dan Popper]

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[Russell]

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