← Scoop City: Inside The NFL
Scoop City: Inside The NFL
Why did Shedeur Sanders fall in the NFL Draft and Mike Sando previews his QB tiers
01:02:24
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- [00:01]
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- [01:01]
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- [02:15]
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- [02:50]
Chase Daniel
I did a couple Shador videos that hit a million for me. That's. That's viral for you. That's just like start, you know.
- [02:56]
Diana Rossini
No, not Chase. We have come far. When we started this, you used to think Viral was like 25 videos and you're like, we 25. It was like 25 clicks and you were like, we're not k. I said, I said, I said chase viral. No, no, not K25. I was like, geez, viral is a million. And then now look at you now. Welcome into Scoop City. I'm the athletic senior NFL insider, Diana Rossini.
- [03:29]
Chase Daniel
And I'm Chase Daniel. Played 14 years in the NFL.
- [03:32]
Diana Rossini
Well, first of all, let's start off the show with just a big message of appreciation for all of you tuning into our Wednesday live show on YouTube. That was awesome. We loved all the activity, all the comments, the messages. So thanks for supporting Scoop City is we don't do the live show a lot, so doing it before the draft, dumping the notebook, I think that was the way to go. We're going to talk a little bit later in the show about all the stuff that we shared before the draft and kind of go back to see what we nailed, what we maybe miss, missed out on, or perhaps misunderstood. So we'll get there. So just first of all, thank you so much. How was your draft, Chase? What'd you think?
- [04:08]
Chase Daniel
It was fun. I coached seven ball games between three kids this weekend while the draft was going on. So I'm coaching third base in my kids ball game in the first round, the first 20 picks and I'm like refreshing my phone. My phone dies and I'm like, no, no, I'm trying to coach, which I'm very, very much into the game too. Right? Like our kids played awesome. Then I go walk down the third base dugout, get my wife's phone, log into Twitter on her phone and continue to follow it because that's the only way I can. So it was an interesting weekend, to say the least.
- [04:35]
Diana Rossini
Well, I'm going to be sending you one of those Mophie battery chargers because, you know, I live by that thing.
- [04:39]
Chase Daniel
I have one. I just, I haven't. I didn't bring it.
- [04:41]
Diana Rossini
So. Not like you. You're so organized and prepared. I'm actually shocked by that story. But I know if I was a parent on that baseball team, I'd be like, can the third base coach pay attention? I mean, get off your phone.
- [04:51]
Chase Daniel
I know, I know. That's. That's hilarious, actually.
- [04:54]
Diana Rossini
But I get it. So look, we're here. This is our big draft show reaction show. Chase and I spent the weekend talking all about it and we finally are like, all right, let's do it. Let's wait to Tuesday morning. We'll drop all this and get right to it. To give you all of our feedback in. And it really gave me a few days to actually collect some information, too. For us, because so much was happening behind the scenes. We saw a lot of the draft rooms, but there's a lot more going on than you even realize. So let's just get right to it. Let's dive into it. Here's what I'm hearing around the league. So while there's so much to dive into in this draft as a whole, the Shador Sanders story, without a doubt, was the headliner and continues to be the most talked about topic in this draft. So there are layers to the story, there are opinions, there are hot takes, there's some reporting I want to share with you, but I first want to start with your thoughts about the Shador Sanders situation. Coming from a quarterback, coming from somebody who's been around the league as long as you have, and coming from somebody who talks to players still in 2025 about how everyone sees this from afar.
- [06:07]
Chase Daniel
Yeah. So for me personally, it was a surprising. It was a surprising fall. I mean, and honestly, like, I've talked to a lot of people that have done the draft for decades and they agreed, like, this is one of the most surprising things we've seen in the past couple years, decades, really, since we've been doing this draft. Because everyone on the film that you would watch would agree that Shador Sanders maybe not a first round talent. And we've sort of said that on this show. Right. But he is a talented quarterback. I would say he's probably the second or third most talented quarterback in this draft, okay, he was not the second or third quarterback taken. And if you watch the film, there's usually like a second, maybe third round. Great. Well, after the third round, we're like, where's Chador? Like, what in the world? It's way, way bigger than this. So, because Shador isn't a clear, elite talent in the mind of many evaluators, right, because this was a down quarterback class, we've had people on here that have said that. I've thought that NFL coaches have told you. They've thought that it's just a weak class. The intangibles of the quarterback are magnified. And I think that's what cost him this weekend. It wasn't his play on the field, because his play on the field, it's good. It's not great, but it's good. And he didn't fall in the draft because of his talent. Teams will often overlook character concerns or medical concerns in two seconds if they think the talent is worth it. And then that's the question. If the talent's not worth it, meaning if you're not a surefire first overall pick like Cam Moore, all the intangibles come into play. And for me, that's where I looked at it, and that's where I started, like, trying to backtrack. Okay, let's look at these interviews. And it's like, okay, the interviews, that's great. Those matter. Those matter. Like. Like, regardless of how it may feel, like, oh, you know, I'm going to the. I'm interviewing with the Kansas City Chiefs. There's no way they're. They're. They're going to draft me. Teams talk, and that's just the fact of the matter. So he had plenty opportunities, in my opinion, to help himself out through the draft and the draft process. And pretty much at every single stop, Diana, he dismissed him. And we like to say this in the NFL. And I actually talked to some coaches, I talked to some players, and I remember my time very vividly. In the NFL, no one is bigger than the NFL shield. And the NFL shield is the emblem that you see as the logo of the NFL. And when that's there, what does that mean? You cannot get one over on the NFL. The owners are in charge. There's a true hierarchy in terms of the NFL. So you almost have to bend over and people hate this term, but I sort of like it. You have to kiss the ring a little bit. You got to play the game a little bit. Well, Shador Sanders, in this camp, they did not he didn't play in the Senior Bowl. Okay. He didn't throw the combine. He was one of two guys to not throw at the combine. Okay? That was Cam Ward. Cam Ward didn't have to throw a combat. We knew Cam Ward for a long time was going to be the number one pick. And with at least a few teams, obviously interviews, they did not interview well. That's not all uncommon. Right. This stuff happens before, but when you're viewed as more as a backup than a starter, the NFL talks and the NFL says, hey, you know what? All right, no one took him past the third round. And I was flabbergasted. And then I'm like, okay, well, who wants a celebrity quarterback that will bring a circus media storm as a backup quarterback in there. And so that's what made the fall happen even more. And then also we go back to the Deion. The Deion thing. I think he's doing the right thing for his son, but he hinted it over a year ago. Okay. That he might pull an Eli for his son because his son's a top five guy in the draft. Do you think that went over well in draft rooms? Like, we don't have to have hot takes. This is just pure, simply stated facts.
- [09:58]
Mike Sando
Pure.
- [09:58]
Chase Daniel
All these things are magnified when the talent doesn't exceed it. And that's what I thought this whole situation with Shador Sanders came down to was that sometimes teams don't simply want the spotlight and the possible distraction that comes with drafting a player as well known as Shador Sanders. And I, I tried to think about what I wanted to say, but that is just the ultimate. Like, that's not just coming from me. That's coming from coaches. That's coming from players. And that's what happens. Now the real work for Shador Sanders starts.
- [10:29]
Diana Rossini
Yeah, that's a lot to unpack because I think you hit on a lot of different topics and a lot of tentacles that played into how this all eventually played out. I just want to share with you what one NFL executive said to me after all of this wrapped up. He said, I. I believe Shedor approached these visits with teams as a recruiting trip versus a job interview. And there's a difference. There's a difference in how you carry yourself. There's a difference in the questions you're asking the team. There's a difference how you're answering the questions that are being asked of you. There's a difference in how you're preparing for these meetings. There's a difference in how engaged you are when you're the one trying to get the job versus behaving as if you're the one doing the interviewing. So I think that's where some of this went off the rails a bit. Right. Because we told you last week that at one point towards the end of the season, the New York Giants had Shador Sanders on their board ranked number one. Right. So once they realized they weren't going to get Cam Ward, Shador to them was their top quarterback. So how does he not get picked by them? Well, something between the end of the season and draft, something happened. Well, what happened? You got to know Shador and they got to meet with him and Brian Dibel got to talk with him and members of the Giants got to spend more time and that time they were able to learn more about the player. So I think that, by the way, the Giants aren't the only example of an experience that wasn't exactly fireworks. It wasn't a match made in heaven. There were a lot of teams I spoke to that would call the meeting that they had with Chador just, okay, he did not blow the socks off of anyone.
- [12:23]
Chase Daniel
Now what's his attitude or was it his, I don't want to say lack of knowledge because at least in person watching or in watching film, he knows the game. Was it the attitude or was it the knowledge?
- [12:36]
Diana Rossini
There's a difference between knowledge and being prepared. Right. So a lot of these teams, as we've talked about before and you know this will email, send along the playbook, send along information about the offense so that way when they meet, they can discuss it and go through it. And I have heard so many stories over the years of quarterbacks getting the playbook and they don't even read it. And they show up to these meetings and they're asked about third down situations and they're pushed back on, on, on certain decisions that they, that they would make in the situation and they don't have answers. And so I think some of the preparation was part of it. And I did have a team share with me this morning that they wondered as an organization if Shador had an NFL agent with experience with a top quarterback entering the draft, if that agent would have provided maybe a little bit more insight into the preparation, into the process over the, you know, three months leading into the draft after their season. That way those interviews go well. And this, I'm not blaming Deon. I. We know of a lot of players that don't have agents, but I think in this situation, I think it could have helped him have A voice of someone who's done this before, more recently, to say, hey, this is. Let's just for this example, this is the Cleveland Browns. Andrew Berry's the gm. Kevin Stefanski is the head coach. Here's what Kevin's known for. Here's what Kevin likes. Here's what Andrew Barry, here's the offensive coordinator. This. It just. It just working together. So it's the absolute best presentation when you're sitting in front of the team. But again, it's gotta be about the presentation to the team, not you sitting there interviewing the team as if they're lucky to have you.
- [14:32]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, that's such a good point, Diana, because it's just one of those things where we were talking with some of my buddies that had played football, and we're like, hey, because we did, we didn't really know that Shador didn't have an agent. We figured Dion was doing it, and that's great. But if you don't know exactly where you're going to go in the draft, I would say get an agent. And there's a lot of players out there that are for agents. There's a lot of players that are against agents in a situation like this. We are going into a little bit of the unknown. As soon as you figured out you were not going to be the first quarterback taken, and this is a really weak quarterback class, and there's only like four or five potential suitors for quarterbacks. In all the draft, I would hire an agent not only because of the situation you said, but also you as an agent. Your job is to sell the player. So there might be these outside expectations or these outside influences or perceptions of Shadore Sanders in his camp. You can help smooth those over. So you're not the one, like the dad isn't the one talking to the team. And there's a little bit of blurred lines of communication at times, because you even heard it and we've heard it, but it's. It's really difficult. If a team is negotiating with a star player, say Lamar Jackson, and the team is trying to win negotiation. Lamar Jackson doesn't have an agent. He's trying to win the negotiation. There might be some really uncomfortable conversations that need to be had on where the team actually sits with their evaluation of Lamar Jackson because they don't want to pay him top dollar, because teams never do, even though the Lamar Jackson expects it and deserves it. So I think there's a little bit of blurred line of communications. I think an agent would have been nice.
- [16:06]
Diana Rossini
Yeah. And then you look at where he landed, right, The Cleveland Browns. I did not ever get any intel that the Cleveland Browns had him ranked high on their board. I think they saw that he was available in the fifth round. They met, they discussed it and they went for it. And they took a chance that maybe he can turn into something and be a player. But that tells me something too though about Cleveland, right? Because it's not like they picked him with this conviction the way we've seen other teams go after their quarterbacks. So look, I think from Shador's standpoint, every, everything he's done since he was drafted, I loved the way he celebrated when he was picked by the crowd. I was not expecting that.
- [16:56]
Chase Daniel
He was super excited.
- [16:57]
Diana Rossini
I, I initially saw it and thought that it was like the wrong clip or from something else or an AI thing. Like I just remember being confused and I was like, well, this is cool that he was really so grateful in that moment to be doing that. And if you were him, like before we move on to talk about the rest of the draft here, what piece of advice do you have for Shador Sanders as he enters the NFL?
- [17:23]
Chase Daniel
Look, that's a great question. I think for, for me it's just, it's time to put your head down and work like, like at the end of the day, don't let your past be your past. You learn from it, you move on. Were all the things done properly and correctly and do you think he probably wishes he wants a few things back? Yes. That being said, you are on an NFL roster. There are about 100 quarterbacks in the world right now on NFL rosters when the season starts, on the 53 man roster, there's usually around 68 to 75 quarterbacks on a 53 man roster in the entire world, you have a chance to be one of that. And he should always in his mind and I'm sure he's thinking this, want to start, but let's just put that to the side right now. Right now when you come into the door in Cleveland, you are quarterback number four, Joe Flacco, Kenny Pickett, Dylan Gabriel, which you even heard Andrew Berry say, we aren't thinking about taking two quarterbacks then. It was just such a deep discount. We're going to take Shador Sanders. So right now you're a fifth round quarterback. Fifth round quarterbacks get cut all the time. Fifth round quarterbacks make it out to become amazing starters. There's levels to this. The first level is just going in and learning the playbook. Because honestly, Diana this is a fascinating and fascinating situation and I just want to take viewers inside, so give me two minutes to explain this. When he gets into training camp, Shedor Sanders is quarterback four. Quarterback four gets two reps a period in training camp. There's four periods. In normal NFL practice. That means you get a total of eight plays. Eight plays a day in training camp practice, that is nothing. A starter gets 60. So in those eight plays, remember, there's going to be runs, there's going to be screens, there's going to be all sorts of stuff. So you might get four passes and if you go two for four one day you're like, oh, I'll complete a 50% of passes you can press. As a guy. I've been in that situation. I was quarterback four in Washington. I was quarterback three in New Orleans before I. There's situations where you just got to go relax. The pressure's off of you to go play and just have fun doing it. Learn the, learn the offensive playbook inside and out. And I think there's just steps to this. Your first thing should be beating out Dylan Gabriel if it's an actual competition, because sometimes, sometimes you know it. These third round, second round, first round picks, they are just given the job. Dylan Gabriel will be given till at least to start the number three quarterback job behind Kenny Pickett, depending on what happens. So just work your tail off, man.
- [19:57]
Diana Rossini
Yeah, it's. It's sound advice. Well, since I got the quarterback as a host here and I love taking advantage of it, let's talk about the other quarterbacks in this draft here. I know the Travis Hunter trade was a big deal. We'll circle back on that later in the show. But for now, let's get through the quarterback order. Right? So in the first round, we obviously know Cam Ward. We've talked about it plenty. We all believe he's going to have some success here. But then the Giants make the move, right? We weren't sure. And it all started to come to light a few days before the Jackson Dart was the guy. Why do you think Jackson Dart wound up being Brian Gable's guy?
- [20:32]
Chase Daniel
A couple reasons. One, you know, we were on this pretty early. We felt like Jackson Dart had the potential in the ceiling to be a first round quarterback, talent wise. Right. And you look at the offense, the sec, the first thing that comes to mind on why the Giants really liked him is do you remember Brian Dabel? Obviously you remember, but I'm talking to our viewers that Brian Dabel was Josh Allen's offensive coordinator. I believe from 2018 to 2022, he reminds him a lot of Josh Allen. Maybe not throwing the football, but most movement. Okay. Jackson Dart ran for 1500 yards in the SEC. He averaged 500 yards, 500 yards a year running the football. You have to have that type of dynamic when stuff breaks down. I do believe in this type of offense that the New York Giants are running that Jackson Dart projects as the best quarterback. So is he going to start right away? I don't know. Is he going to play this year? Absolutely. Because it's the only way, and we've talked about this at nauseum, that I think the New York Giants brass can keep their jobs.
- [21:31]
Diana Rossini
Yeah. So we, we were on the Tyler Schuck train. We were, we were, we were the captains, the conductors of that train. We went a little nuts with it and I'm glad we did because we. Look, there was always a chance that someone was going to grab him if someone decided to get a quarterback in the first round. But the fact that he went in the top 40 here and with the New Orleans Saints, you know, so Kellen Moore, you know Kellen so well. You were with the Chargers when Kellen was there as the oc. What do you think? He looks Chuck. Because people are criticizing this.
- [22:04]
Chase Daniel
Yes, they are, Diana. People are criticizing it. And you know, we, we, we talked about it specifically. You, you were, you were on it. I was just following. I was a bandwagon. I got on as soon as you got. I'm like, let's go. No, but you watch him on film and the arm, the arm strength, the arm talent stand out. And the footwork is excellent. Probably the best footwork in terms of quarterback footwork in the entire draft. Then you look at the film and like, okay, you know, he's at three season ending injuries at Texas Tech. He's been around the block. He's going to be 26 years old this year. I think he fits the Kellen Moore style offense. He's that big guy that can sling it down the field under center, play action type guy. Kellen Moore wants to run the football first and then throw it with deep play action. And I think that this is a project, but when you take him 40 and the situation with Derek Carr's shoulder is unknown. Dinah. There's a really good chance that Tyler Shook starts from the start. And so it's going to be really interesting to me how that situation plays out where he's slotted in the depth chart of Derek Carr can't go, but this is definitely a project it's going to take some time for him to get up to it, but I believe they, they believe in the future of him.
- [23:12]
Diana Rossini
Well, what's the thing that we said about him leading into the draft that we were hearing from coaches and GMs and scouts that he's the most NFL ready quarterback of them all. So it would make sense for the Saints if they've got some question marks about the question about the future of Derek Carr and we'll see how that all unfolds. So from the other quarterbacks taken in, in we, we'll just say the six rounds here, right. So Kyle McCord, Will Howard, Riley Leonard, they went in the six round. Jalen Milro went in the third round.
- [23:41]
Chase Daniel
Say Jaylen. Yeah.
- [23:42]
Diana Rossini
Right. So I tell me what your thoughts were there because I think we thought he was going to go higher perhaps, but he land, he landed in the third round. What were your thoughts there?
- [23:54]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, love, love his fit in Seattle with Kubiak. I think it's, it's an awesome like you, you think of Kubiak's offense and you just think of this man can think of anything and get to do it and fits his offense to his quarterback so well. I know, I know Sam Darnold's a starter. Right. But this is a really interesting project and I say project because he doesn't have to start right away. But you better be sure he's going to find the field because his feet are dynamic. He is one of the more dynamic runners I've ever broken down in college and I do think this is a really good fit. I think round three was probably about right based on his ceiling. Like we were talking, hey, round one, round two, if someone really fell in love with him, team's like, ah, not so fast. So it is interesting for me how Kubiak's going to use him, but it's a perfect fit for him up there. Like you, it's, it's bad weather. You don't always have to throw the football. You can have a run game with it, all this stuff. So I do like him going there.
- [24:44]
Diana Rossini
Well, we, we had thought that the Steelers. Excuse me, we had not thought, we never talked about it here, but I think a lot of other people thought that the Steelers were going to be in on Shador. I saw a lot of people talking about it on television that Tomlin likes them and then, you know, they had every chance to grab him and they didn't. Right. And a lot of the reasoning is, is I don't think they believed he was a good fit. But also we've got this Aaron Rodgers story hanging over still. Right. They still feel good that he's going to land there. And we talked about how Kirk Cousins has also communication with the Steelers. At least the Falcons have talked to Pittsburgh about that being a possibility. So we're still waiting and nothing's really going to happen until Rogers makes a decision. And the Steelers feel like it's coming soon. So I can tell you they, they're, they're talking. The communication I was told is really good between both teams. Art Rooney came out recently, spoke on the radio about he thinks this is going to work out. Again. Thanks. Hopes.
- [25:45]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, just like when, like when Aaron has a leverage now because they need a quarterback.
- [25:52]
Diana Rossini
Correct. And meantime George Pickens, he's on the trading block. Like teams are calling about him. The Steelers are calling teams about him.
- [25:59]
Chase Daniel
Could the Cowboys make sense for George Pickens?
- [26:02]
Diana Rossini
They had conversations but nothing, nothing came to fruition. Nothing. It could still happen but it wouldn't make sense now I would think.
- [26:11]
Chase Daniel
You know an interesting thing, just a quick nugget that I heard about George Pickens from a very reliable source is that George Pickens, he actually likes his time in Pittsburgh because of Mike Tomlin. Mike Tomlin and him have a very strong relationship is what I'm being told. And I don't mean to put on my insider hat, but I heard this today. It made a lot of sense. I don't know if George Pickens antics could fly anywhere but the Pittsburgh Steelers and his relationship with Mike Tomlin percent so I think just hearing that and it might be known but I just, I didn't think of it like that. So you know, you saying he's going to be.
- [26:52]
Diana Rossini
Think about who Mike Tomlin has coached at the receiver position over the years. Right. He can handle anything. George Pickens is nothing compared to the stuff that he's seen.
- [27:03]
Chase Daniel
So I wonder how that plays in like with Tomlin having the power there. You know what I mean? Like trade verse, you know, if the.
- [27:10]
Diana Rossini
Steelers are picking up the phone to call teams to shop them kind of.
- [27:15]
Chase Daniel
Tells you but there's another team want to trade for him though because of all that.
- [27:20]
Diana Rossini
I think there's definitely teams poking around on it but they know what it comes with. You know that's why the price is going to be interesting if they, if they're able to get a deal done right. Can they get a second round pick out of that heck of a deal. They're not going to get that. I don't think they're, I don't think they're going to get that, but I can just tell you they, right before the draft and during the draft, they were calling around, teams were calling them. There were, there were conversations flying around about George Pickens. But I think it's probably at this point not going to be something we see happen. And look, you're, you're Aaron Rodgers. You're looking at these receivers. If you're Kirk Cousins and you're looking at these receivers, I don't. Do you like it or not, George.
- [28:04]
Chase Daniel
Pickens and DK Metcalf? Hell yeah.
- [28:06]
Diana Rossini
Skill level.
- [28:07]
Chase Daniel
But hey, just throw him the ball. Go do your thing, man.
- [28:11]
Diana Rossini
Yeah. All right, Chase, let's take a quick break. Mike Sando is going to join the show now. He's going to weigh in on some of the quarterback action. Shador Sanders, obviously, I want to get his thoughts, his opinion. He talked to so many league executives. So I want to get his opinion on it. And also we know he's known for his quarterback tears. I want to see what he thinks about this upcoming quarterback tier that we're going to see later in the summer and sort of kind of some of his early predictions. We'll take a quick break.
- [28:45]
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Chase Daniel
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Diana Rossini
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Chase Daniel
Last chef standing Sunday night at eight. See it first on Food Network Stream.
- [30:08]
Mike Sando
Next day on Max.
- [30:19]
Diana Rossini
All right. Welcome back to Scoop City. Here we are are pleased to welcome back our senior writer at the Athletic, Mike Sando to react to the draft and some other topics that we've got for you. Mike, thanks for joining us After a very. It. It turned into a bit of a wild draft that I don't think people around the league expected. It was supposed to be this boring, flat, no headliner weekend. And yet Shador Sanders continues to be the biggest topic even at like my kids daycare. People are still asking me about it.
- [30:46]
Mike Sando
Unbelievable. Yeah, my son's texting me about the prank. From the prank to the whole thing, the way everything unfolded to all the discourse around why the disagreement over why. I mean, I think it was, you know, I think that component of it was. We knew it was compelling going in. I don't think we had any idea how compelling it was going to be and remain. So just the way it all unfolded is incredible.
- [31:13]
Diana Rossini
Well, you spend so much of your time talking to people, making these decisions, people that are in these war rooms. On the topic of Shador, we'll start there. What's been some of the feedback you've received on really his plummet.
- [31:28]
Mike Sando
So going all the way back to the combine, when he interviewed there, there was a lot of stuff that came out about, God, the interviews were terrible. And I sort of thought at the time, hey, you know what? People still just take quarterbacks early. You know, don't overthink this thing. He'll go early. But there were a lot of people who didn't think the evaluation was worth the first round pick. Again, they still take, they push him up all the time. So I think that there's a big gap between the team evaluation of him as a player and then what the dynamics of the quarterback position require and what you want there then was probably appreciated in the media. So that position is different. I think if Shadur Sanders were seen as a Andrew Luck talent or somebody who was really differentiating, I think he would still go number one. But I think it's that combination of people just thinking he's decent but not great, but thinks he's great and not decent with his dad in the background. I think that whole thing fed into the plummet because you're, you're really thinking about what are we, what's the dynamic we're bringing into our quarterback room as a backup. And people get scared and operate from a position of fear when you're, when.
- [32:50]
Chase Daniel
You'Re watching them on the film. Right. Like, and this is sort of the conversation we had before you joined. Like, I, I feel like he was probably like a second or third round talent. Third at least when just turning on the simple film. But with all that comes and we talked about the intangibles come. Right. What do you think was the biggest issue, though, from teams? Like, at what point. Let me rephrase that. At what point do you think in the draft they went from okay starter to backup? Because that's what I believe, like you were saying, caused the plummet. And then when you're in backup territory, then you're like, okay, now you're bringing in a media show. You're bringing everything, and it's the celebrity and you're not playing right away.
- [33:31]
Mike Sando
I think it's. Once you get out of the top of the second round, don't you think the first round you're going to have some high. You're going to sometimes get a Pittsburgh or somebody, take somebody at 20 like they. Or whatever they did with Kenny Pickett, and then you're going to have that movement at the top of the second round, you're moving up. I think once you get out of that, that's exactly what people are thinking is the dynamics of their room. And at the quarterback position, it's different than at the receiver position. You know, people don't want that to be that guy to be a huge story. So fair or not, I think that's totally when it happens. And then you still would have thought someone might take a flyer, but no.
- [34:08]
Diana Rossini
Mike, right before the draft, I had so many people in football saying there's no way Cleveland's gonna trade out. Like, everyone's calling, but they're not gonna, they're not gonna move. Cause they want Travis Hunter. They know Travis Hunter's that special. And then as we got closer, you know, we found out that that deal was actually done weeks ago, that they, they, they began talking with the Jags, you know, in early April to begin that process, knowing that the Jags really wanted to make a splash, and they certainly did. What are you hearing about Travis Hunter in general and that move the Browns made in the Jags?
- [34:41]
Mike Sando
Yeah, so, I mean, I think Cleveland, for Cleveland getting the first round pick is next year is great. I mean, I think they were knowing they weren't going to necessarily solve their quarterback thing this year. They took two, but they still may not have solved it. So I think that component of it made sense for them. I think the interesting part to me is I think Travis Hunter's special. I think he's unbelievable. But can anybody live up to the possibility of dominating at two positions? I just don't think that happens. I think what's going to happen is you're going to end up playing one position. A vast majority of the time and he'll be really good at it. But, you know, can you live up to that?
- [35:20]
Chase Daniel
Before we switch, I have a question. And this is pretty surface level, but I think it's fun. It's a fun exercise to go through. I know your brain scrambled. Mine too. Diana's as well. What was your favorite, like your very favorite move of the entire NFL draft? It could be someone that no one's ever heard of or someone that you think is going to have really good success at the next level or maybe a trade.
- [35:40]
Mike Sando
Yeah, I kind of liked. I'm a big fan of this year in particular getting first round picks and getting picks for next year. So I thought the Rams getting a one next year, you know, was something that I really wasn't expecting to have happen. And we know that Sean McVay always sort of likes his quarterback but has his eye on, you know, maybe something else in the future. So they've gone year to year with Stafford and I think now, you know, they like Jimmy Garoppolo, but they weren't going to necessarily just move on from Matt, but they made Stafford kind of sweat and they said, hey, go see your market. Oh, see, it wasn't that great. So I feel like this was just like the ultimate poker move and a great job to get a pick next year when next year's draft's supposed to be better anyway. Probably will be better. And now you're in that mix of a team with ammo and who knows what else they do. They may get more picks, you know, to give themselves a real chance. And. And what if Atlanta, you know, Atlanta kind of went a little all in this year. That's who they got the pick from. But what if Michael Penix gets hurt or something or, you know, and Cousins isn't there? That could be a high pick that has the possibility to be a higher pick than you think. So I really like that for the Rams.
- [36:45]
Diana Rossini
What are the chances of the Rams still having that pick by the time we get to the draft next year? Like, zero. You know, seriously, just knowing them and I had a bunch of people in football texting me after the Rams did that. They're like architects, Arch, like, just telling me already, like that's what less is after. But we'll see what so much can happen between now and then as we know. So look, I can't have you on and not talk about quarterback tier. I'm sorry that that's all we associate you with, but you're so good at it and we look forward to it, it's the highlight of our summer and I know we're still a few months away. So first, just talking to San Francisco 49ers right now because I keep hearing such really good news coming out of there about the Brock Purdy contract. They seem to be, you know, getting closer and closer. Same thing with George Kittle. So it sounds like they're going to have signed up their, their main superstars there. But with Purdy looking like he is going to be the future for sure. In terms of tears, last year he was number 12 in tier 2. For you, do you think it's going to change? I know it's not based on your opinion. It's your collection, but just knowing what.
- [37:55]
Mike Sando
You know, yeah, it's not going to go up. I think last year was just sort of not a bad year for him, but it wasn't a continued ascension year. The way that it played out. I think, you know, it probably people now lean a little, a little on their previous evals and say, hey, when he had to carry it a little bit more, maybe it got a little bit harder and maybe that's what he's going to have to do down the road as his team. Some of their eight guys age out and I think the interesting thing for them will just be coming in at the right number. I don't think that they are the team that's going to do what Miami and Jacksonville did of just coming in at 55, top of the market, whatever 60 like Dallas did, I think they're in a much better position to come in at a more reasonable number just because Brock Purdy, his pedigree and he hasn't made a ton of money. If you go back 10, 12 years, the league isn't like this anymore. But you remember Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick, they did compromise deals. We have seen teams go away from that and just pay their guy. But I think the 49ers can do better than that and I think maybe they can save a little bit of money.
- [38:54]
Chase Daniel
When you say real hold up, Diana, when you say reasonable deal, okay, I'm a huge Brock Purdy fan. What do you see that as? And I might have another question.
- [39:03]
Mike Sando
Yeah, I would say that it would be closer to 50 than 60. Do you agree with that?
- [39:09]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, I mean, I mean, Diana's at the Insider. For me, it's one of those things. Mike, though, depending on the length of the deal, right, you're probably going to get it through the league's rights being up, the media rights going up and we all know that the cap skyrockets then, and it's continued to skyrocket. Don't you think $50 million is going to look so cheap? I mean, like, even. Even if they did, like a Trevor Lawrence deal or like a $55 million deal. Right. In three or four years from now, that number could be 70. So that's why I think. I mean, I don't know anything, but that's why I think 55 is going to be decent.
- [39:44]
Mike Sando
Yeah, and he may get that. He may get that. You know, he may be able to get that. I just, you know, the way these deals get negotiated, typically, if you have discipline as a team is you look at what they're making this year and you add the next two years of the franchise tag and you say it's.
- [39:59]
Chase Daniel
Going to be 97 million for Brian.
- [40:00]
Mike Sando
You'Re looking at three years and $100 million. So you want to do better than that when you've made no money in your career? We can do that. Let's just be reasonable. And then, you know, they're taking the gamble that Brock Purdy's not going to stay away all offseason, all that type of stuff. I thought it was notable. The 49ers didn't really do a ton this season to super threaten them. They got Mac Jones, but I don't feel like they made a move, you know, that really put him on notice.
- [40:22]
Chase Daniel
Totally. Yeah.
- [40:23]
Diana Rossini
So, yeah, they weren't signing Aaron Rodgers, you know.
- [40:25]
Mike Sando
Yeah, they weren't rumored on that. They didn't, like, take a guy. They didn't, you know, draft a guy in the second round or something, that those are the types of tactics you could use. I think that tells you they think that they'll get it worked out.
- [40:36]
Diana Rossini
Yeah, I'd be surprised if it's over 55. But, like, Chase, I see your argument on it, but I think they've got a good relationship between his reps and the team.
- [40:48]
Chase Daniel
Let's get it done already.
- [40:49]
Diana Rossini
Kind of understanding. I know. I think it's going to be soon, so we'll be reporting that soon, I hope. All right, so let's talk about your quarterback tiers here. Which team do you think did the best surrounding their sophomore signal caller with a good supporting cast this off season?
- [41:05]
Mike Sando
Okay, give me all the guys.
- [41:07]
Diana Rossini
Oh, we got to go through it.
- [41:08]
Chase Daniel
Caleb Williams, Jaden Daniels, Drake May, Michael Pinnix, Bo Nix, JJ McCarthy, I would.
- [41:14]
Mike Sando
Say, I think Caleb Williams, you got to start there because, you know, I think that the moves they made might sometimes be criticized. But there's a lot of trust in Ben Johnson. I think that when you look at it through the lens of the head coach and the trust that we have in him to make use of these guys, I think those are a couple of moves with the tight end early, the receiver early, that I would be surprised if we're talking about in the year how they didn't use those guys well. Right. Whereas in the past you kind of want. You really kind of wondered they would get a DJ Moore or get somebody and you're like, it didn't really work out as well as you thought, you know, that sort of a thing. I think they're going to be dialed in on that. So that's probably one.
- [41:56]
Chase Daniel
Who are you expecting to garner the most surprising evaluation of those guys? I mean, obviously Jaden Daniels, right. Like, I think he could be like top eight in the league, but other than, I mean, you're probably going to say Jaden, but other than that, who do you think might like, whoa.
- [42:11]
Mike Sando
Well, I think that Caleb Williams is going to languish. I think he's going to be pretty low. We'll see. I would. I think he'll be down there, you know, down there in, in tier three, maybe even low in tier three. And there's going to be a lot of talk about there being a new sheriff in town there. And it's not Caleb Williams, it's Ben Johnson. I think that was an. There's just been some interest. Like to me, Ben Johnson has the juice there now and I think he's a little bit of an old school coach who's going to hold people accountable. And I don't necessarily think that a lot of guys, not just Caleb Williams, but a lot of guys coming into the league have had that. You know, I think that's one of the issues that I think that's one of the reasons Shador Sanders fell was just like this super premium confidence. And sometimes, you know, you look around the league, it sometimes takes these guys a while. Look at what's been written about Kyler Murray and we're like in five years and he's kind of there, right? He's kind of gotten there, wouldn't you say? And you would say, you would say, like Caleb Williams, there's no reason for him to get there until now because I think now there's a head coach in there who is going to be there longer than anybody, possibly including the quarterback. I think that's a fascinating component.
- [43:24]
Diana Rossini
Mike, we talk so much on the show about programs and just. It makes a difference. And it's not the most fascinating conversations to have, but these organizations that have the right gm, the right head coach, the right philosophy, the right identity of who they are, they can't help but be successful. Yet there's still so many teams who can't figure that out, despite the fact that they think they know, you know? Yeah, I totally agree. You know, we're obsessed with your quarterback tier. So real quick, before you go, when do you start working on this?
- [43:54]
Mike Sando
Usually it's now after the draft, because you gotta.
- [43:56]
Diana Rossini
You kind of.
- [43:56]
Mike Sando
You gotta kind of know where everyone's gonna be now. We still gotta wait on Aaron Rodgers, but I'm. What's the odds that Aaron Rodgers goes to the Steelers? What's the percentage chance? Very high. Right? Very high. So, you know, once we kind of know where people are, you can.
- [44:11]
Diana Rossini
You can start on it. I can already see us getting clipped.
- [44:14]
Chase Daniel
I know you didn't want to say anything.
- [44:17]
Mike Sando
I put you on the spot.
- [44:18]
Diana Rossini
Like, it's going to be every.
- [44:23]
Mike Sando
Said 4%.
- [44:25]
Diana Rossini
We don't know.
- [44:27]
Chase Daniel
Oh, don't change up your answer now, woman.
- [44:29]
Mike Sando
We don't know. Doesn't know. Rossini has no idea what's happening with.
- [44:35]
Diana Rossini
I mean, we got the headline every day, Mike, you know, dummy Rossini.
- [44:42]
Mike Sando
Yeah, yeah. No, we just really. We got to really know what happens in the draft before you can start knowing where all the quarterbacks are. So now we know basically who's going to be in Minnesota. Right. Or some of these things are settled a little bit now.
- [44:54]
Chase Daniel
Wait, wait.
- [44:54]
Mike Sando
I have a question.
- [44:55]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, sorry. I just. I thought about this because there has been a lot of talk out there. Where do you think Mahomes goes? Like, he's probably staying in tier one, but like I said.
- [45:05]
Diana Rossini
You meant like.
- [45:06]
Chase Daniel
No, no, he's staying in tier one, but like, people are trying to say, like, because of a down year, he's not still the best quarterback in the ML. And I think they're crazy.
- [45:14]
Mike Sando
Oh, yeah. I think it'd be unanimous. Tier 1 Again, I'd be surpr.
- [45:17]
Diana Rossini
Very surprised.
- [45:18]
Mike Sando
People don't really come off of that. You know, the quarterback tears is a little bit. There's a little lag to it. It's not reactionary. You know what I mean? No one's like, oh, my gosh, this guy had a good second half of last year, tier one. You know, people are kind of like, hey, let's see another year. So I don't even think Mahomes is perceived to have declined necessarily in the league. I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [45:42]
Diana Rossini
All right, well, when we need credibility, we bring Mike Sandow on. That's what we do. We just raise the level.
- [45:48]
Mike Sando
No doubt.
- [45:49]
Chase Daniel
We are super credible now.
- [45:50]
Diana Rossini
I know, Mike. We can't wait to talk to you at the end of the summer. I know you put a lot of work into this thing, but please, please put us on that calendar of your scheduled appearances. We want to have you on. We love you.
- [45:59]
Mike Sando
Can't wait to.
- [45:59]
Diana Rossini
Thanks so much.
- [46:00]
Mike Sando
Thanks.
- [46:00]
Diana Rossini
All right. Bye. Bye.
- [46:05]
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- [46:35]
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- [47:06]
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- [47:45]
Diana Rossini
All right, back here on Scoop City. So I feel like we touched on a lot of the big stories coming out of the draft. Sando is just always so great. Talking about the quarterbacks. I can't wait for the quarterback tears to come out. But let's just wrap this up since this is it for draft talk. Really. I mean, unless something wild comes out that we uncover. This is it, buddy.
- [48:04]
Chase Daniel
No, this is it. Yeah, this is. All right, so I'm done talking about the draft.
- [48:07]
Diana Rossini
Diana, I know. I know you've been doing a lot of it. So let's just do a drive by then. Biggest winners in. Biggest losers of the draft. Let's just bundle this sucker up. Can I go first on my list? Yeah.
- [48:19]
Chase Daniel
Because I have two, you have three.
- [48:20]
Diana Rossini
Yeah, go my winners. I'm going to begin with the team I think that did the best. And look, who knows what that means? But I had somebody, I think it was SH. Kapadi recently said on his podcast, sometimes you got to eat your vegetables. I think the New England Patriots are eating the vegetables. Right?
- [48:39]
Chase Daniel
Hey, that's a good one.
- [48:41]
Diana Rossini
Right? They're doing the right things here. And I just love. Look, we've talked about this on the show. Before free agency, I was on this show saying, I don't think the Patriots are going to be very good. We got to give them some time. But I'm starting to lean into believing that they can be better than what we're expecting, or at least what I've been expecting from their moves of free agency. How they're drafting Will Campbell gave his interview and said, I will die for the quarterback. And I just said, well, that was my pick.
- [49:14]
Chase Daniel
Amazing.
- [49:14]
Diana Rossini
Like, like, like that is just the blood of what they want to be. Like that is exactly what they're trying to be in New England. And so to me, that was like, that marriage is going to work. And granted, I know it's just words and there still has a. They have a lot of work to do in New England. But just what they did, they were able to, you know, to get a running back, a star running back, by the way. I was shocked. It was impressive. So I, I, I walk away with thinking New England had a really strong off season.
- [49:43]
Chase Daniel
Yeah, I'm with you. I think the draft is, I mean, they're, they're top three for me. Sure. No doubt about it. Biggest winner for me. Look, Giants, great draft, but I'm going Chicago Bears. I'm going Chicago Bears. I think they are the winner of the NFL draft. I know, you know, Santa was talking about Caleb Williams. I think the winner was Caleb Ben Johnson. The Bears. And I know we say this every freaking offseason, Diana, but this just feels a little different, okay? The plan they had to build this team around Caleb was very, very evident. It started in the off season in the, in the, in the free agency period where they signed Drew Dahlman to the second highest paid center. Okay? You get those interior three guys by trading for Joe Tunney. You trade for Jonah Jackson. Those three interior guys are the bedrock of that offensive line. And then the first Three picks. You go offense. Colston Loveland. Okay. A tight end of Michigan. I love this pick. It seems high for a tight end, but when you look at his skill set along with Cole Comet, when you go back and you watch Detroit Lions film, a lot of 12 tight end, sort of Sam LaPorta, ish with Colson leveling, can block, can run all this stuff when the team's in 12 personnel. You can play base defense, which is three linebackers, or you can play sub defense which is five DBs. And you can pick and choose your weapon. So you put those guys and then, and then you have Luther Burden from the University of Missouri that they get at 39. They steal him. I thought he was a first round talent. Debo Samuel with the ball in his hand. You pair him up with Roma Dunes and D.J. moore. You got your offensive lineman second round pick, 56 as well. I, I like it. It's hard not to get excited about what they're doing offensively. This has been such a defensive minded team forever and you're finally switching it to an offensive too.
- [51:33]
Diana Rossini
Yeah, it's, it's refreshing even just from the simple fact that they have been always such a defunctive minded team that some fireworks here. You know, this, this is to me, Ben Johnson getting all his pieces together so he can do whatever it is that he wants to do with this playbook. And I think that's where all the confidence lies. Right. Like we know he's gonna be able to handle, handle this and put together an offense with Caleb Williams. They're going to, I think they're going to immediately improve. The Houston Texans, to me were up there as a winner and I know you're going to push back and be like, well, the biggest question they really didn't address is improving their offensive line significantly. Right. Here's the thing. Nick Kissario just is a calculated human being and I think history has proven that, that they always have a plan and D'Amico's the same way. They're not a panicky type of organization. They approach everything very organized and they're a little unconventional. Right. Because you, you, you trade away Larry McTom. So that, that appeared to be a little bit of a weird move at first because you're like, why would you move him when you need him? And they're trying to get ahead obviously. But I, I just like their moves outside. I still think they need to address the offensive line like that. That. I don't know if this is going to be that much improved considering their pass protection. Last year was garbage. But so the fact that they were walking away from this thing, they got the Iowa State receivers, right? They got Jaden Higgins. Jaden, Jalen Noel. Yeah, I love that.
- [53:00]
Chase Daniel
I, I did not expect them to go receiver like that. That, that the, the, the Iowa State guys, they can, they can come in and help you win right away. I can get with it. I wasn't really thinking the Texans, but you know, I'm with it. And we're super bowl this year.
- [53:15]
Diana Rossini
Another Jalen. Like they got a lot of Jalen's on this team. They better figure that all out down there.
- [53:19]
Chase Daniel
Are you rolling with them again for your super bowl pick like you did last year?
- [53:22]
Diana Rossini
Are we really doing this the last week of April right now, picking your Super Bowl?
- [53:27]
Chase Daniel
All right, my last winner. You're looking at her smile. Diana Rossini. You crushed it. You crushed it during draft week. I'm not just saying that because you're my podcast host. I went and literally figured out how many things you got right. And for. Sometimes we don't really celebrate our wins enough and I feel like we need to celebrate our wins. All right, Falcons want to go defense and pass rush specifically you think, look what they did. All right, divers take some picks. Duh. Sure falls out of the first 5th round pick. Steelers don't take Sanders. You were definitely on that dart as day balls. I mean like Tyler shucked. Jaguars moving up for something electric under two and a half round pick. Like Saints taking a quarterback later, not the first round at nine like you said, they're probably going to go tackle or defensive tackle. The Giants take best player available and get the QB it can. And there's more. I'm just done reading because your head's getting bigger as I'm talking. You crushed it in the draft.
- [54:22]
Diana Rossini
Well, thank you for saying that. The draft is the hardest event to report on because of all the lies and the smoke screens and you have to figure out who's lying to you. And I can tell you, I had so many people lying to me and I knew it at the time.
- [54:38]
Chase Daniel
How do you sift through it? I don't know.
- [54:40]
Diana Rossini
It's just this like little instinct thing I got going on.
- [54:44]
Chase Daniel
Like a mom. Like an instinct.
- [54:46]
Diana Rossini
A mom stink. Yeah. An insider stinked. I don't know.
- [54:49]
Chase Daniel
It's just instinct.
- [54:51]
Diana Rossini
Here's what happens. You wind up collecting so much information and there's just, there's just some home run people you have that they don't mess up, they don't wear off, they don't fib they just, they're straight with you all the time. And I rely on them the most during the draft. So I'm willing. Like, I, I had more calls in the last two weeks than any other thing I've done in a long time. Just because so many people like to talk and we've talked about this before, it was just that, that time of year. But look, in the end, you never know. So much happens the day of the draft, the night. You never know what's going to happen to you when a team is on the clock. You never know how much an owner's involved. Right. But he. I think the hard part of all this too, sometimes is not. And we talked about this last show is you. You want to be as accurate as possible. It's important. You want to share with the fans things that their teams are doing. And even when people say things aren't right, like I, I saw some people refuting some things over the last few days that we put out there, sometimes they got to refute to save face. That's sometimes, that's how it works. But I think those that are loyal to Scoop City, they know, they know the truth. So thanks, guys, for hanging with us on that. So thank you for that. That's very nice of you to say. Do you have some losers since we talked?
- [56:05]
Chase Daniel
I have one. I don't. We're. We're a positive show and I want to, like, keep the positivity, although I do just want to obviously, like, for me, it's like, no, no kidding. It's Shador Sanders. But obviously we talked about, like, maybe the distractions, the fall. The whole world's talking about you. And, and first of all, I hate people. I cannot stand people that cheer that kind of stuff on because that is sick. And I think it's ridiculous. And I don't think at times we gave other draft picks enough notice because it's like, hey, they're living out their dream, too. The story became about Shador Sanders and only about Shador Sanders. So media, we were a little bit of losers, too. But more specifically with Shador, financially, now, he's not going to need the money as day, you know, they're well off. Okay. He lost over $35 million. And Mason Graham at number five. Okay. For the, for the Browns, where they picked four year, $40 million deal, fully guaranteed. Four year 40. Shador Sanders pick number 144. Four year, $4.6 million, only $200,000 guaranteed. So, yeah, we get it. But financially, this is a huge deal. As well.
- [57:18]
Diana Rossini
Yeah, I like that you called the media losers. I'm okay with that. We're part of it. And look, we were all over the place on it. But the thing is, the world was interested.
- [57:28]
Chase Daniel
That's what they wanted to know.
- [57:29]
Mike Sando
No doubt.
- [57:29]
Chase Daniel
Anything you put out was like.
- [57:31]
Diana Rossini
Because they were even on Sunday when I was kind of over it all, and I was like, okay, let's start digging all their stories. Get ready for the pod. I would open my timeline, and I was even on Facebook like an old lady, and I'm like, man, this is all anyone wants to know about.
- [57:45]
Chase Daniel
Do you follow me?
- [57:46]
Diana Rossini
When my dad, who does not like football or even follow football, texts me what's going on with Shador, that's when I know it's breaking.
- [57:53]
Chase Daniel
The general fan, super interested, and I say the media, but the reality is they won because the draft was, like the second most watched draft in, like, the last decade. There were more people watching the first round of the draft than there were the NBA Finals. The draft where you actually. There's no football going on. You are picking players for your team. Like. Like. And that had more viewers in the finals of the NBA.
- [58:23]
Diana Rossini
I watched a Bill Burr clip recently about the draft, and he said, people actually watch this thing. It's like going to a graduation and you don't know anyone graduating.
- [58:35]
Chase Daniel
It's such a good point.
- [58:38]
Diana Rossini
Like, that's the draft, but we loved it. So thanks for hanging out with us on Scoop City. In the lead up, we were working hard, people behind the scenes here on Scoop City. We're working really hard. We were just trying to get you guys as much info as possible, especially as a new podcast. There's so much out there, so we appreciate you guys tuning into us. The off season begins for us. So here we go. We've got some big things planned, some exciting things coming up still. Look, we got another few weeks here of. Of some movement with some players, with quarterbacks, so we're going to keep you guys posted on all that. And for now, that'll do it. Make sure you comment. We want to be more open in our mailbag month. Right? Because we started to do it and we were busy with it, and then news happened. But now that it's getting quieter, we would love if you guys participate a little bit more. So message us on YouTube, Twitter, DM, us on Instagram, wherever. We'll start collecting your questions and we'll start making this a weekly thing where we address the things that you want to know. But that'll do it. First all right, guys. Thanks for hanging out with us. We'll see you next time.
- [59:35]
Chase Daniel
Bye, guys. Take me next time.
- [59:39]
Mike Sando
Sa.