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Scoop City: Inside The NFL
Why the Bears’ bet on Caleb Johnson and Ben Johnson will take longer than expected
00:44:09
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- [00:00]
James Palmer
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- [00:42]
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- [01:30]
Jake Seeley
When I was growing up, I was always stuck with Raphael. And they're like, well, you have the same attitude, so you should be Rafael. Well, because in the game the size just. You have to be so close compared to like, Michelangelo's got the better reach. There's the very true.
- [01:42]
James Palmer
I didn't know why you were stuck with him. Did you have like dominant friends that told you? No, we're being. I'm being Donnie. I'm being Mikey. You have to be Raph. Is that what's happening?
- [01:50]
Jake Seeley
I was too. I'm like my mother. I'm too much of a people pleaser, unfortunately. I like to give people what they want. Except when it comes to just not using kickers in fantasy. Then you don't get what you want.
- [02:06]
James Palmer
It's a Thursday. Welcome to Scoop City, presented by ebay. I'm James Palmer. Don't forget to like and subscribe. It's Internet. You have to say it. But please, also, if you're watching, please like and subscribe. We have a lot to get to today on a Thursday, as I mentioned, we're going to get a Bears report. We're going to dive in deep with Kevin Fishbane. We're going to talk about everything. Is the sky falling? I don't know. Is things, you know, maybe overreacting. It happens in Chicago, but we'll find out how much so and then we'll get with Nick Cosmere to talk about the Denver Broncos, one of the most hyped teams during the preseason, but took one on the chin against the Colts. And then we'll be facing a divisional foe in the red hot Chargers this weekend. That's a big deal. And then Jake Seeley's going to give us all sorts of fantasy information like he always does and probably some other nonsense. I think he's talking video games, arcade games. We may get into that with Kevin Fishbane as well as he's going to join us right now and we're going to talk a lot of Bears. Do you have a favorite arcade game, Kevin, that I can tell Jake later in the show?
- [03:02]
Kevin Fishbane
Oh, man. You know the old Simpsons game that's on his list.
- [03:06]
James Palmer
That's like in his top five.
- [03:08]
Kevin Fishbane
And I think there was a Ninja Turtles one too. You know, you just those games where you're just going from left to right.
- [03:13]
James Palmer
I don't want to give anything away.
- [03:14]
Kevin Fishbane
Ninja Turtles.
- [03:14]
James Palmer
I don't want to give anything away. But Ninja Turtles is extremely high on his list. You guys have very similar arcade game tastes. I know everybody wants to talk about Caleb Williams and we will get to him, but to me, I'm more fascinated from an organizational standpoint of what you've seen with Ben Johnson so far. We have seen very few coaches that are as highly sought after as Ben has been over the last couple of seasons. Can I have something maybe like in this short window that you've had with him that maybe makes you scratch your head and go, I thought we were getting blank. And so far we have this and then maybe something that's, you know, this exceeded actually what I thought I'd have in Ben running the show here in Chicago.
- [03:55]
Kevin Fishbane
Well, James, we spent six to eight weeks talking about writing about how this guy was maniacal about the details.
- [04:03]
James Palmer
Yes.
- [04:04]
Kevin Fishbane
And I do think he still is is. But to see the Bears in two games have false start penalties, have, you know, just not being on the same page on all three phases to the level that it's been has not reflected a coach who is supposed to lead this program and have everyone follow him and just being so focused on the details. So I think that's been a little. And again, I don't know, we're all still trying to figure out the reasons for that. And we're also trying to remind ourselves it's only been two games, but that's been a little bit of a, you know, we saw this. This looked great. This looked like a change and it hasn't been reflected on the field. I will say you can just sense the edge that he has. There's a competitive fire that makes you think that they will get out of this rut and that they will get into a groove at some point. I don't know what that looks like. I don't know when that's going to be. But there is this like, like throughout the summer. James, when anybody asks me about the Bears and I still believe us, I tell them, I go, my number one source of optimism, or what your number one source of optimism should be as a fan is Ben Johnson. Like that's what it should be. I still believe in that. I think that we're seeing the play calling, I think has been there, but yeah, it just hasn't lined up yet. Obviously these first two weeks.
- [05:26]
James Palmer
Listen, that edge is important, honestly, especially when you have a slow start, especially when you have a locker room that's curious if this is the guy. And I think having that edge is extremely valuable. Another one on Ben. Real quick before we move on because this popped into my head and I've talked to so many guys across the league that have been first time head coaches and about their first year. How is he at delegating? Because oftentimes when you're really, really bright like Ben is and, and you're very attached to the details and you want everything done and you have a specific vision, sometimes delegating can be hard. How has that been so far with Ben?
- [05:58]
Kevin Fishbane
Well, I think one thing he's talked about is coming from Dan Campbell. That was something he really respected From Dan. Remember, Dan Campbell's not calling plays there on either side of the ball. He's just overseeing everything. Now Ben is calling plays here, but I think from Dan Campbell he learned about delegation. He brought Antoine Randall over, who's the assistant head coach here, coaches the wide receivers. He brings over someone in Dennis Allen who, you know, look, the defense had a disaster on Sunday, but I think we can all agree Dennis Allen is, if you're looking for defensive play caller, he's on that short list of guys that you want calling a defense. So I do think that Ben Johnson coming from Dan Campbell and, and remember Dan Campbell comes from the Sean Payton tree and there's a bunch of Sean Payton guys who are here. So I think there's. You have this you know, you have good elements of coaches who have been successful through delegating. So. But, you know, look, look, Ben Johnson admitted to us after week one that he threw a challenge flag he shouldn't have thrown. He should have listened to the guys in his booth that were telling him, don't throw it. So the head coaching things are something to learn. But I will say this, James head coach taking accountability is a little bit of a new thing in Chicago. So The Bears might be 02, but fans are like, you know, so excited they have a coach who will actually point the thumb about certain things.
- [07:15]
James Palmer
Yeah, you're right. There were a lot of. And I'm not going to throw them under the bus, but maybe I'm doing it, saying it. There was a lot of Matt Eberfluss press conferences on a Monday where there was still a lot of head scratching and not a lot of answers for you specifically in your group when you were coming out of that press conference. So I bring up floors, and there was somewhat of a revenge game for. For Ben Johnson going back and facing the Lions. Now you have. Maybe it's Maddie Refluz's revenge game against his former team. Is that talked about at all in the building? Because I don't want to say it because maybe it'll happen, but, like, if you have this defense that has been struggling in Dallas right now, come out and play brilliantly against your offense. That. That. That can be. That's not avoidable by any sense from what you're going to write.
- [08:01]
Kevin Fishbane
Yeah, it's. So two things at play here and what. I appreciated that Ben kind of answered the question on Wednesday with candor about, you know, someone said, hey, Eber FL knows Caleb Williams intimately. He knows a lot of the players you have here. And Ben Johnson said, hey, we have a lot of coaches here who know him, who know his tendencies, who know what he's. The way he's wired. So it's going to be this chess match, you know, Caleb Williams didn't really want to. He. He was very diplomatic about it. He said, every game's a chess match. And, you know, he. He was not going to get into the fray. But shoot, when the fourth quarter was devolving in week one, and I looked ahead the schedule and was like, all right, now they have to go to Detroit to play a motivated Lions team.
- [08:43]
James Palmer
Yep.
- [08:44]
Kevin Fishbane
And after that, I thought to myself, okay, what is worst case scenario? Worst case scenario, James is own three. And Matt Eberfluss is the. Is a big reason for. Because his defense that hasn't played well. No stymies. Caleb Williams and the Ben Johnson offense. Can you imagine, like this city, it'd be one thing to be 03, it's another thing to be 03. And, and it's because of Eberfluss, the guy who has been torched in this city, fairly or not, for what happened during his time here. And look, you and I are talking Thursday morning. Eberfluss talks at some point to Dallas reporters today. I know him well enough to know he is going to be very just straightforward and it's just another game to him. And sure he has memories and he's got people here. He is excited to see all that stuff. He is a competitor. He is going to be designing the game plan of his life, I would imagine for this one. So yeah, it's a real thing. I do think that the people, the coaches and players know well enough to know not to think about that. They just have to attack him and attack this Dallas team. But it is in our world, James, we can talk about this scenario that is going to set off talk radio on Monday if the worst case happens.
- [10:00]
James Palmer
Yeah. And you and I both know, Kevin, that he's going to say everything right at the podium. That's going to be very different than what's said in the locker room or the speech to the team on Saturday by whoever's getting in front of the group about Floose and about the way that they want to win this for him. You know what goes on behind closed doors. And we also know that there might be a game ball handed from Shotty to, to, to Matty Berflus if they do end up winning that game. That is just all like worst case scenario for Bears fans right now. So let's try to think a little bit of positivity here. This could be a get right game for Cait, Caleb Williams and this offense. When we talk about the struggles this defense in Dallas has, whether it's the pass rush, whether it's covering on the back end, I mean you could kind of pick your spot. You want to talk about what have you seen from Caleb that gives people hope? The stats, strangely enough, are almost absolutely identical from last year to this year through the first two games. But what have you seen that's different in a quarterback through two games?
- [10:55]
Kevin Fishbane
Look, I thought he made some throws in Detroit that were phenomenal. And you know, our colleague Ted Winn here did a film breakdown showing the improvement from week one to week two. And yes, the score was, was bad and yes, the defense and special teams have regressed with Mike Sando touchdown in his story on Monday. But Caleb Williams himself, you could see the footwork was better. He was making better reads. And actually, you go back to week one, even, like the accuracy is a problem. But if you're looking for a Salus, he was throwing to the right guys. It wasn't like he was forcing the ball in certain places. I thought he was like, people were so frustrated because he was missing open players. Well, those guys were open, which means A, they're being schemed open, B, they're getting open, and C, he's finding them. So those are good things. So I did think that he took a step forward in week two. You know, I compare this to my very below average golf game.
- [11:47]
James Palmer
Okay, tell me about it.
- [11:49]
Kevin Fishbane
I'm not a good golfer. And I've always thought if I could just get rid of the awful tee shots, I'm. I could. I could play a little bit.
- [11:58]
James Palmer
If I would just drive my car and just start maybe in the middle of the fairway on and just say, that would be nice. Yeah, yeah.
- [12:04]
Kevin Fishbane
It's just like, like, Caleb needs to get those things out of his system. He needs to get. Whether it's the airmail throw, whether it's the. You know, he had the thing in Detroit where he's scrambling, he just kind of flings it downfield and it's interception. He can't do those things. Like, he's got to get those things out of his system. And once those are. And they're never going to be completely gone. We see Josh Allen make mistakes, we see Patrick Mahomes make mistakes, but you have to be more consistent. So I do think that we're seeing steps forward. And the thing that James, like, you always fall back on with this guy is the physical talent is out of this world.
- [12:36]
James Palmer
It really is.
- [12:37]
Kevin Fishbane
And, you know, like. Like, you'll sit there, you'll see him overthrow a guy by 10 yards one play, and the next play he threads the needle and you're like, how did he do that? So it's all about harnessing the good, trying to get rid of the really bad and getting. And the other thing, too, James, one more thing on Caleb is it would really help to get this run game going. And I know that such an. In the NFL world, we talk about that every week. Gotta run the ball. Gotta run the ball. And it's so true with this Bears team because Ben Johnson wants to run the ball. I mean, you talk about Jared Goff all you want. Jameer Gibbs and David Montgomery were a massive reason the Lions were so successful the last couple of years. If the Bears could just get into a rhythm, run the football and keep the game into a situation where they can get the run going, I think that makes things a lot easier for Caleb.
- [13:24]
James Palmer
I think it does too. And the other thing that's jumped out at me and I'm curious what you think is, is kind of some of this pre snap stuff, some of this, all this motion that they're using and all these, some of the issues they're having before the ball's even snapped. I kind of equate that similarly, honestly, to watching a lot of Bo Nicks early last year. I know Caleb's in year two, but this is a new system with Ben Johnson, it was a new system with Sean Payton running things with Bo kn and it was like a thousand personnel groups are coming in and out every single play for Bo Knicks. And it was like, is this too much for the rookie? And it was too much early on, right. And then you saw like Sean not ease up on it and stayed with it. And by the end of the year, Bo Nicks is handling all of it very, very well. And I'm kind of curious how that process is going to be for Caleb as the course of the year goes on with some of the stuff that Ben wants to put on his plate and, and figure out a way they want this offense to actually move. I want to get to an article that you wrote, I believe, about some of the tight ends here in town and make sure you go to the Athletic and check that out because I loved it and it got me thinking about how this team is built. There's talent, but there's a lot more to team building than just talent. Right, Kevin? So like using your article and the two tight ends they have, is this team built properly in how it was put together?
- [14:42]
Kevin Fishbane
You know, when Kelvin Banks went to the Saints at number nine, we're always going to sit here and wonder if he would have been the guy for the bears at number 10 and what difference that would have made if you had drafted your left tackle for the next 10 years there and you don't have to go through a left tackle competition like the Bears went through. You don't have to have as many worries as they do and, and you go find a tight end later. But that didn't happen. And Colson Loveland's there. So now you have your two tight ends. You have Ben Johnson, who loves a two tight end. The Bears have run more two tight end plays than anybody in the league and they're 23rd in targets. And if that would drop to like 28th if you took out the garbage time target. So something's not aligning. And Ben Johnson took some blame for it. Caleb Williams took some responsibility for it. But you know, you're right when you look at the fact that what Ryan Poles did this off season was he said I need to fix my interior so I'm just going to spend the money to do it. And good on him. Joe Tunney, Jonah Jackson, Drew Dahlman. In terms of guys who you could acquire, you can couldn't have asked for like a better triumvirate to come in here. But the problem is you had to go do that because you hadn't done it. Like you hadn't developed guys, you hadn't had guys in there. You've got these tackles that you drafted that you. It'd be a great situation if those guys are playing high level. But it just, it hasn't gotten there yet. So that like how can you get these tight ends involved if you don't have the pass protection? How can you get the run game going if you're not doing X, Y and Z? How can you allow Caleb the time to get the deep passing game going if your tackles are. Or something's off? And you talked earlier about new scheme, it's new scheme for everybody. So all those things in play. Like there has been a lot of consternation this week in the city by the fact that the Bears had multiple second round picks either inactive or very uninvolved. And you can argue that it takes rookies time and they have other guys who are couldn't play those spots. But also like that's resources you're spending and this is not a rebuild. This is a team that needs to be competing for a wildcard now. So it's. Look, it's going to be an interesting situation of GM and head coach and how these guys kind of. You want them to obviously be aligned at the hip and everything. But when you're 02 and you're zero and two the way that you're owing to, you open the door for every bout of criticism. Like the Bears have just put themselves in this position for us to kind of sit here and be like, well maybe you should have drafted this guy, maybe you should have traded for this guy, maybe you shouldn't have paid this guy, maybe you shouldn't have extended the gm. Like that's kind of the top of the, you know, of the list in terms of what everyone's talking about. But again, you're going to. They get it like this is the stuff that's going to come up.
- [17:21]
James Palmer
Yeah, it certainly is. And I look at the secondary that's been banged up and you're going against George Pickens and CD Lamb and Dak is playing as good as anybody. So real quick before we go, what prediction for Sunday is what?
- [17:36]
Kevin Fishbane
The Bears don't win shootouts. They haven't won a shootout in a really long time.
- [17:41]
James Palmer
I thought you were going to say that because. And they've been giving up explosive plays.
- [17:45]
Kevin Fishbane
Yeah, it's like I have no reason to think that Dallas is not going to score 30. Like the Bears haven't given me reason to think that based on what they've done in the last five quarters of football. I do think that this could be an opportunity for them though. So you know what? Let's. Let's go. Let's go. Bears 32, Cowboys 29. I like to try to find score gummy esque scores.
- [18:13]
James Palmer
I want to ask you that.
- [18:15]
Kevin Fishbane
And you know, let's think like you know what I'm going to do. James. I'm going to get. I don't want to say one last chance, but I'm going to give the coaching staff this. I'm going to say we've talked so much about how great Ben Johnson is and Dennis Allen. This is their opportunity to show it because they need a win. So I will give them the credit that we've been giving them all summer and say that they find a way to get these guys. It will be the Bears first like shootout win in several years.
- [18:39]
James Palmer
Okay, you're calling it. I appreciate it, Kevin. Thank you so much for the time everybody go and read that article about Cole Comet and Colston Loveland and what's kind of going on in the offense. I think it's a nice little microcosm of kind of what's happening right there. So appreciate you joining us. We'll have you back soon, hopefully after a win and we're not talking as much of 02 stuff and what's happening in Chicago. Thanks, James. All right, I appreciate that from Kevin Fishbane and we going from an 02 team to a one and one team, maybe the darling of the off season, specifically in the afc. That was the Denver Broncos. A lot of sleeper picks going out there for Sean Payton's group. I think he was kind of the one spearheading all of that. But it hasn't been exactly what we thought out of the Gate specifically on the offensive side of the ball, maybe a little bit on the defensive side as well as they get their hearts broken against the Indianapolis Colts in week two, and now they have a monster game in week three in the division against the Red Hot Chargers. And that's why we bring in my buddy. I see this guy in the flesh regularly. I'm not sure if that was appropriate to say, but Nick Cosmeier joins Scoop City right now. Nick, what's happening, man?
- [19:42]
Nick Cosmeier
I'm doing good, James. How are you, man?
- [19:43]
James Palmer
I'm good. I mean, this show has kind of ruined the amount of time we can see each other. We both live in Denver. I like to pop into the Broncos here or there, and maybe Fridays are the only time I can do it because of this show, but that's okay.
- [19:54]
Nick Cosmeier
That's the best time, man. Vibes are good on Fridays. Hay's in the barn. Everybody's a little more chill.
- [19:59]
James Palmer
Well, we can talk about that.
- [20:05]
Kevin Fishbane
But.
- [20:05]
James Palmer
You keep us informed all week long. I think one of the things that I wanted to start off with this, and if you've gotten this vibe in the locker room at all, is Sean has built a culture very, very quickly. We know that from guys that probably hadn't even one enough to even have the confidence that they've had over the last two years, but they do. But the expectations were so high heading into this season to make sure that that doesn't change. I felt like this week is a big week for the coaching staff to make sure that that's still ingrained into this team after the way things went in week two. How have you seen that? Because that's a little bit of Sean's magic sauce, I think.
- [20:45]
Nick Cosmeier
Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. And you talked about the expectations. It was really, you know, Sean Payton, the head of that coaching staff, who kind of amped those up right when he shows up to training camp and starts talking about this team being one that he thinks has what it takes to, you know, have a chance to compete for the Super Bowl. Right. And. And so he kind of elevated that, but both from a team perspective and then talking about where he thinks Bo Nicks can be in the next two years as one of the best quarterbacks in the league. And so, yeah, that there comes with that some pressure, particularly from the one that is setting those expectations, that, that they're going to be able to elevate this team in a way that allows them to. To compete at that level. And what they have to do is be able to clean up some of the things that have cost them in these close games. Like we have seen this team to your point, James, because of the culture, because of like just the better foundation of the personnel and all those other things. Take this ride. But if you look to the start of last year, they're now two and seven in one score games. And in a lot of these like Sundays in Indianapolis, the. There was just kind of an avalanche of self inflicted mistakes that kept them from winning that game. And Sean's big thing has been like, before we can learn to win these games, we have to learn how to not lose them. And that's I think kind of really the focus right now of like, can we get out against a good team and play the kind of clean football game you have to play in order to give yourself a chance?
- [22:11]
Kevin Fishbane
Yeah.
- [22:12]
James Palmer
And I think there was enough blame to go around. I know everybody talks about Will Lutz and that that curveball, somehow he kicked and goes off and upright, but there's a lot of blame to go around about the reasons why they didn't come away with a W leaving Indianapolis because there's. It was almost in all three phases, in all honesty. And, and you mentioned Bo and the expectations and they're through the roof, honestly. I mean, if Jaden Daniels doesn't have the rookie season that he had, which was essentially one for the ages, I think Bo Nix is clearly the, the, the rookie of the year and he actually beat Jaden Daniels out in a lot of metrics in this rookie season. But it hasn't been as smooth maybe as we all kind of expected coming out of the gates in, in two weeks. What have you seen from Nick's. Because you were there every day at training camp like that maybe is this is kind of making me scratch my head or this is what I saw in camp and I'm getting exactly what I expected.
- [23:03]
Nick Cosmeier
Well, I think what's kind of interesting is that even though you have like a lot of what was talked about was the continuity, right. Like Bo Nix for the first time since he was in high school was getting to go into the same offensive system under the same play caller, same quarterbacks coach, all that stuff for the, for the second year in a row. Never had that in college at either of his two stops, you know, five different schemes. And so that was sort of where you expected the, the, the automatic growth to be. And I think in some ways we do see that. I, I think just sort of his general comfort in the huddle that's been Evident when you talk to teammates. You know, I think the kind of the, the way that he plays, you know, off platform and, and that kind of thing is still. I think he's still comfortable in that ways. What's been different is I think they are still trying to figure out who they want to feature in this I offense and ultimately what they want it to be. I mean, you've had back to back games now where, you know, for week one against the Titans, 11 different receivers catch passes. Week two against the Colts, 10 different receivers catch passes. And Evan Ingram, who, Who is supposed to be kind of like a pivotal part of this, has. Has not really been one of those guys. So I just think they're still mixing in so much of this. Not to say nothing of the fact that you have two new running backs, kind of an altered run scheme that you're doing now. So even though there was continuity, what I've seen is like they are still in a way kind of figuring out who they ultimately want to be offensively.
- [24:26]
James Palmer
Yeah. And that's a tough one. When you go against a Jesse Minter defense in week three. That in the secondary is about as complex and amoeba like as you can see in the NFL. Right. The way guys move around and maybe show you one thing and then give you something else. And, and I think that's, that's going to be the interesting aspect of it. You brought up Evan Ingram, which is fascinating to me. I predicted him to be second on this team in catches by the end of the year. Obviously it's early, but that usage has been different. Is Troy Franklin the one that, that's emerging compliments of. Of Cortland Sutton in this passing game. I felt like Indianapolis was essentially the coming out party for Troy Franklin in year two.
- [25:03]
Nick Cosmeier
Yeah. And I think at this point, like. Cause. Cause you were out there, James, for, for a lot of training camp and saw him kind of taken off in the way that he has. I think what has struck me about Franklin is like none of it really since, you know, the OTA program has been like a flash in the pan. He's been consistent every single day to the point where I think you can say like this is who he, he's become and there's still plenty of room, you know, for growth for him. But, but just his confidence level is, is on a, on a different plane than it certainly was a year ago. And, and I think it's just continuing to grow. You can do different things with him. It was, I asked Sean Payton about him yesterday kind of the biggest thing that he's seen in terms of, you know, technique, because he had mentioned during training camp that Franklin's gotten stronger and clearly just has a better understanding of the playbook. But he said his ability to kind of be a run after run after the catch threat, the way that we want to use him is, is a real difference maker. I mean, even you, you mentioned will Lutz's missed 42 yarder. They only were able to attempt a field goal after the, after two big penalties because Franklin, you know, catches a screen and turns it in nothing into a 15 yard gain. So he's been a really important element. It's just now, can you, can you, can you find something else that you can consistently count on? We haven't seen the running backs in the passing game a whole lot. That was supposed to be a staple, what they're doing. So I just think they're still throwing a lot against the wall right now is probably the easiest way to say it.
- [26:21]
James Palmer
Okay, well, we'll see what Sean can figure out. He usually finds a way to figure out. So we'll wait and see. As he does throughout the early portion of this season. On the other side of the ball. This was just a defense that was really, really good last year. And then you add Telenoa, who Fung on the back end, and they've been in love with his emergence already. I won't say it's emergence. He's a veteran. But like his role in this, in this defense has been even more so when I talk to Vance Joseph than they maybe originally thought. Like he's been a lot in that backside. They still haven't seen Dre Greenlaw, which has been part of it. But to me, what stood out was the pressure that they put on Daniel Jones. And it just didn't seem to impact Daniel Jones. Right. Like he didn't drop his eyes. He still was able to feel comfortable, at least from watching it. And then you look at the amount of pressure that they're bringing. They're blitzing over 51% of the time. So far, that's number one in the NFL. I look at Justin Herbert, he's got the second highest passer rating in the NFL against the blitz. Is this a concern, this, this group up front or, or do you have a concern anywhere on this defense? Because I think people saw them really come out in week one play great, but we knew what the opponent was and I think a lot of people were scratching their head after the indie game.
- [27:32]
Nick Cosmeier
Well, they, they still have to kind of show one of those sort of performances against a really good team. For as good as this defense was last year, if you look at the end season, you know that they struggled a lot against Jameis Winston and Jerry Judy in that Cleveland game. Week 16 at the Chargers, especially in the second half, couldn't stop Justin Herbert. You know, Obviously Cincinnati Week 17 struggle against Joe Burrow and his weapons, which obviously a lot of people do. But I, but I think they want to see that out of this defense. I, I, a lot of that. I think it was close to a 70% blitz rate against the Colts and that got got. The Broncos burned a couple times. They gave up four plays of 40 or more yards. That's just completely uncharacteristic of advanced Joseph defense. Because if you go back to last year, to the start of last year, you know, the Broncos only give up explosive plays on about 10% of opponent drop backs, and that's like sixth lowest in the league. They want to keep the lid over the top of this thing and then be able to beat you if you do get into the red zone, which is another thing that they've done well. So they need to stick to that formula. Like aggression is, is good and it's a hallmark of what Vance Joseph does. But I think they have to be, be careful because you, you can win with that front four. That I'm not super concerned about that group, but, but I just think picking their spots, especially against a guy like Justin Herbert is going to be critical.
- [28:50]
James Palmer
Okay, so before we bounce, Nick, it's. Is there buzz? Like, I can't believe the Chargers have three divisional games to start. They could be three. And oh, like, is there talk there of like, wait, hey, we gotta win this game for us. But like the Chargers can start running away with this thing early on, sooner than later. Is there talk of that in the locker room? And then also, what's your, what's your prediction for, for Sunday?
- [29:13]
Nick Cosmeier
Yeah, I think there is definitely a sense that this is a game that is massive for this early this season. When you looked at the Broncos schedule, you know, this gauntlet starts with a road game at the Chargers, then they host the Bengals on Monday Night Football on week four. A little bit of a different complexion to that one now, of course. But then go to Philadelphia in Week 5 to face the Eagles. So like, this is the start of a really critical stretch. And because you didn't get that win in Indianapolis that you really feel like you should have, it turns the screws on this game, not only because of where you are but to your point. Absolutely. The chargers could be 3 and oh with a win in hand against every team in the division if they win. Like that's again still early days but, but that is, you know that you're, you're already on the wrong end of tiebreakers and all those other sorts of things. So I think it's big what, what I do think for the Broncos. I'm really curious to see like J.K. dobbins in this game. You know he's, he's had at least revenge game at least 63 yards in each of these first two games. Like the Broncos did not have anybody kind of produce back to back those numbers last year. And I think he's starting to get going. They're going to continue to find ways to get R.J. harvey going. I see another really close game. You know, just can the Broncos avoid some of the pitfalls in those moments that they have had and finally get over the hump?
- [30:27]
James Palmer
Okay, back to back 60 yard rushing games. You know what they call those in 2025? They call them Patrick Mahomes rushing games because that's essentially I believe what he's done in the first two weeks. Nick, good chat with you. Hopefully I see you in person tomorrow when I try to pop into to practice. Man. Awesome. Great stuff. Coming up, we got Jake Seeley telling us everything we need to know about fantasy and apparently arcade video games. I'll explain that more on scoop city presented by ebay. You saw that play when your quarterback dropped back, looked off the safety and threw a dime deep for the go ahead touchdown. Well, that's not just hall worthy, that's wall worthy and you can own a piece of it when you shop. The unrivaled selection of trading cards and memorabilia on ebay, the home of collectibles since 1995. Huddle up with the hundred 32 million users around the world to find that rookie autograph you can't find anywhere else. Premium trading cards, singles and sealed boxes. Unreal Live card breaks. Truly unique game use memorabilia. All the epic finds you need are right here on eBay. Plus with the eBay authenticity guarantee for trading cards, you know what you buy is the real deal. Collect with confidence by downloading the ebay app on the app store or by going straight to eBay.com TheAthletic that's right, your collection journey kicks off right here, right now@ebay.com TheAthletic come through and collect with us today.
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Nick Cosmeier
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- [33:09]
James Palmer
Welcome back to Scoop City, presented by ebay on a Thursday. So you know what that means, right dead. Here in the middle of the show, we got Jake Seeley. As always, the senior fantasy writer here at the Athletic with us and Jake, before we get to our fantasy discussion. Every year. Every year. Well, maybe it's every year. Every week you come with a different rankings from another topic outside of fantasy football. We had Kevin Fishbane on at the beginning of the show. I said, hey, we're gonna talk arcade video games. Jake's favorites ranked. He gave me his favorite two. Do you want to hear what they were?
- [33:46]
Jake Seeley
Sure.
- [33:47]
James Palmer
He goes, well, Simpsons has to be near the top.
- [33:50]
Jake Seeley
Okay.
- [33:50]
James Palmer
And he goes. And he goes. But my all time favorites. Ninja Turtles. That.
- [33:54]
Jake Seeley
There you go.
- [33:55]
James Palmer
What is your number one on the list?
- [33:58]
Jake Seeley
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
- [34:00]
James Palmer
Unbelievable. You guys should go to an arcade together, maybe drop some quarters in.
- [34:04]
Jake Seeley
I was actually recently at 1 in New York where we played Turtles and I was Michelangelo. I always, when I was growing up, I was always stuck with Raphael. And they're like, well, you have the same attitude, so you should be Ravi. Well, because in the game, the size just. You have to be so close compared to like, Michelangelo's got the better reach. There's a very true.
- [34:20]
James Palmer
I didn't know any difference. Did you have like dominant friends that told you? No, we're being. I'm being Donnie. I'm being Mikey. You have to be wrath.
- [34:29]
Jake Seeley
Like my mother. I'm too much of a people pleaser, unfortunately. I like to give people what they want. Except when it comes to just not using kickers and fantasy, then you don't get what you want, don't do it.
- [34:38]
James Palmer
Yeah, 100%. Is there anybody else on the list that you want to drop down? I think this is a great list. I'm looking at all of it. I like that you have some old schoolers on there as well. Whether it's Frogger or whether it's Galcon or whatever it is. Pac man still on there. I don't think you like bows, so no Ms. Pac Man. I saw Street Fighter 2 on here. That was literally my college roommate throughout all of our time together. He would go to an arcade like all day on Saturday because he didn't care about college football and just play Street Fighter 2 non stop. I think he's doing it in Mexico City right now, probably as we speak. Anything on here you want to make a stance on? Just to make sure that people at home know.
- [35:11]
Jake Seeley
I don't think burger time gets enough respect. Burger time, I think is better than Donkey Kong. More fun. Yeah. So Crazy Taxi, you will always find me at Crazy Taxi playing that game. It's one of my favorites. The one I do want to give a shout out. And this is a humble brag, but it's not a humble. It's just a brag. I played two on two and I played two on two on NBA Jam with a buddy while I was in New York and the joystick would not go to the right and we still won because we're that good.
- [35:40]
James Palmer
Wow, that is a good brag. I'm just going to call it a brag, not a humble brag. That's a brag. Yeah, I'll use a brag. My buddy Steve Smith, who's I think on his way to the hall of Fame, has NBA Jam at his house in Charlotte. And we've played a number of times to each other.
- [35:54]
Jake Seeley
Do you have the arcade water cabinet?
- [35:56]
James Palmer
Is that what you're talking about? He has the full arcade. Yep. The whole deal.
- [35:58]
Jake Seeley
Yeah, I got the thing sitting right over here. I have the smaller one. The big, big version of the smaller one.
- [36:03]
James Palmer
He's got the big version. Yeah. No big deal.
- [36:05]
Jake Seeley
Steve Smith.
- [36:06]
James Palmer
Yeah, very good point. Let's get to our fantasy discussion. Steve's not playing anymore. Although I used to use him in fantasy all the time back in the day. What are we talking about now with a couple of these younger running backs? And are we weary of what's happening? We're talking about them in maybe two groups. And because two of them are playing against each other, we just Had Nick Cosmeier on RJ Harvey and Amarian Hampton. Kind of. There were some high hopes in both spots, I think, about how these guys were going to perform. Haven't really seen it so far. What's your take?
- [36:37]
Jake Seeley
So I'm more concerned about Harvey than. As Barkley tries to come into the picture. We're not talking about you, Barkley.
- [36:42]
James Palmer
Yeah.
- [36:44]
Jake Seeley
So I'm more concerned about Harvey than I am Hampton. Harvey. The problem with Harvey is that J.K. thomas is just playing so good in front of him. And it is also Sean Payton. Sean Payton actually had four running backs on game day at times with the Saints. And this is what Sean Payton does. And honestly, outside of his 50 yard play, which got everybody excited for what Harvey can do, he's done very little. And you know, Domino's has been playing well. So unless Domina starts to get banged up or starts to teeter out, which could happen. I mean, it's happened sadly for him.
- [37:14]
James Palmer
Yeah.
- [37:15]
Jake Seeley
So I think Harvey's a timeshare piece at best and fancy, you can't use them right now. Hampton, I have less worry for probably about half the worry, but he's been remarkably inefficient. I don't my concern and I wonder if you're seeing the same thing. I'm wondering if the offensive skill set doesn't fit the offense he's in and the fact that he needs to be more one cut and like he's just. That lateral agility is just not there right now. I saw a little bit more of it at unc, but I think the fit in the offense might be killing him and it's part of why he's so inefficient. That being said, they still getting two to the third touches of Najee Harris, so I'm not overly concerned, but there's a little bit, as you can hear in the back of my mind.
- [37:54]
James Palmer
Yeah, I can hear it in there. And the philosophy offensively has changed a little bit with the Chargers and they're not shying away from that at all. Right. Like we're going to throw the ball more than we did a season ago with Justin Herbert. And obviously that can always play a part in it as well. I think there's just been a couple of brain farts early on for Omari Hampton too. And I don't think, you know, running out of bounds or whether it's the fumble. But like, I do think there's an emphasis that they know that he's the type of back that if he keeps getting Carries it kind of snowballs with him sometimes. And I think that's part of the reason why they brought him in there. The other two backs, rookie wise, that we want to look at are two of the ones that I think were maybe the most talked about in the draft process. And Ashton Genty and Treveon Henderson. What happened in week two, that makes you think a certain direction with both these guys? Because I think Henderson probably wants to just kind of like burn that tape that happened with him in week two.
- [38:44]
Jake Seeley
Deservedly so. So Genti, I have very little concern, again, about half the concern I would have for Henderson. It's actually been part of the offensive line. He's one of two running backs in the NFL to average negative yards before contact, which is just telling how bad it is. But part of it is Genti coming from college, too. And I know you've seen this is. I hate to tell you, Ashton, but not every play has to be 50 yards. Like sometimes 4 is better than losing yards. And stop trying to. We're talking video games. Stop smashing the B button and the juke button. Like Smash sometimes. Grind it out. It's okay. So I think this is going to be fine. He's still top 15 in touches. Genti will come around. It's just going to obviously take his. Getting his mind right. Henderson, it's twofold, is pro. Part of the problem is he's not getting the touches. But all of a sudden Stevenson looks like he did two years ago. Like, we had a really good start from Stevenson last year and then he completely fell off. So much so that they turned to Antonio Gibson to start a game last year. But that being said, this looks like two years ago, Stevenson. All that being said, I do still think there's a severe threat that Henderson comes for Stevenson in time, mostly because of the explosiveness. I still think they're going to use them in the passing game. I still go back to the James White days. We don't need Henderson to have 250 touches to be valuable in fantasy. So I'm less concerned than Henderson, than Harvey, but obviously least concerned about Genti.
- [40:05]
James Palmer
Yeah, I'm not concerned about Genti. When Marshawn lynch is a photographer for your game and then talks to you after the game about, you know, find your locker and says, hey, I want you to work on this, this and this. I mean, that's a. That arrow's pointing up right there when you talk to Money Lynch. And then I. I did talk to some people in New England and it was more of you Know the way Mike Grable works, you're going to have a couple holding penalties that are going to hurt us. You're going to pay for it pretty quickly in the immediate, not in the long run, in the immediate with the way Mike Vrabel works. And there were a couple plays he had that were called back by somebody else holding actually if you go back and watch that game. So those are part of it as well.
- [40:39]
Jake Seeley
He was supposed to be one of the best pass blockers, if not the best in the class and he's missed two really bad ones.
- [40:44]
James Palmer
I've never heard a running back talked about like Trayvon Henderson in terms of pass protection in, in recent memory when I talk to evaluators out there with these teams. And so that's been a little bit of a head scratcher for them for sure. How about some pass catchers that I would assume probably went pretty high in a lot of this, a lot of leagues. When you look at Brian Thomas Jr. Who I think was third in the NFL in receiving, A.J. brown, one of the best receivers in all football and Drake Lynn, who I believe was fourth in the NFL or fifth one of those two in receiving this past year, those three receivers, what's wrong and should people be panicking about some of the guys they probably took near the top of the draft.
- [41:20]
Jake Seeley
So I'm not panicking for any of them. I am buying low across the board. A.J. brown is the most simple and I think people already ForGot Last year AJ Brown and especially DeVontae Smith were already inconsistent where there'll be games where they just don't need them. The Eagles are that good. Barkley arrives last year and it even turned double over. We actually had six single digit performance from AJ Brown. Oh by the way, he had two games in the playoffs. We all remember that where they kind of didn't need him. In the one game where the seven targets they just weren't connecting. But it was fine because the Eagles don't need to force the issue. This is what it is. So AJ Brown will still get you 20 point games. He'll still be top 15 when we get to the end of the season by low London, same thing. Like the opportunities have been there. They didn't need to pass last week. Like we just saw how easily they ran all over in that game. So I'm buying low on London. But the biggest one I think is getting way too much hate is Brian Thomas. Like I already watched the games and I went back a second time, I'm like, all right, let me watch Every single incompletion, specifically, you know how many of them were Brian Thomas's fault out of the 14? 3. It was the one where he made the business decision. And he's not the first wide receiver to make a business decision across the middle of the field. The other two were. He turned up before really completing the pass. Of course, one of them was the touchdown. But of the other 11 incompletions, Trevor Lawrence is thrown into the back of defenders, the front of defenders, over Thomas's head. He's going to be fine. It's more on Trevor Lawrence than it is Brian Thomas. I think Brian Thomas is probably the most disrespected wide receiver right now given everything that's happened through the first two weeks.
- [42:48]
James Palmer
I think you're exactly right. I was. This is my humble brag. Now I'm doing another one. I was on the radio in Toronto this week and one of the hosts was like, hey, tell me about Brian Thomas Jr. I've never seen a receiver more scared going over the middle. Is he just. Is this what. What's going on here? And I'm like, I don't know. I actually hadn't really heard that about him. Even after that interview, I called a couple of people and were like, no, that's not really him. Like, he's a really good player. This is a new offense. This is a new system for everybody. It's just not clicking right now. There's a lot of reasons why it's not really clicking there. And I think you're right. Drake, London, exactly. Spot on with the way that that game plan was. What I am curious about though, with him and he's on one of my teams is. I'm trying to say it's the right way. Okay, I'll say it nicely. Michael Penix Jr. Thinks very differently of Kyle Pitts than Kirk Cousins did. Yes, that is putting it politely. So I'm just kind of curious how the share is going to be around in that offense because Kirk thought one way about Kyle Pitts. My old Pennis thinks a very differently way, different way about Kyle Pitts. So I think it's too far there.
- [43:55]
Jake Seeley
For one, with London, it was, you're never going to see 40% of the targets every single week like that. We knew that was going to come back. That was just pants also getting comfortable in the NFL. The second part is, I don't think it's just also not the fact that he thinks differently is that the Falcons. I'm watching these first two games, I said, you know what? They realized that Pitts cannot separate. Let's try to stop making him run all these routes and see if he can. He can't. But what they've done in the first two games is they kind of turned him into a power forward. They're like, go run your route into the defender, spin off of them. You're open. Run into him, get him off his heels, you're open. And that's what they're doing. And that's what I really like about Kyle Pitts usage so far is their understanding what NFL offenses should do across the board. Hey, maybe use a player the certain way. The Colts with Daniel Jones, they can only do certain things, hone in on their strengths and eliminate the weaknesses. What a surprise. So I think London will be fine, but I think he's probably more of like it's the Brian Thomas everybody that wants Drake London to ascend to the Jamar Chase and CD Lambs of the world. Just wasn't going to happen. So it's more of a perception than a reality.
- [44:56]
James Palmer
Okay, I get it. I get it. I like Atlanta though. I'm not going to, I'm not going to lie on that, Jake. They're actually.
- [45:02]
Jake Seeley
Those draft picks on defense are paying off. You know I talk defenses. Sneaky defense this week.
- [45:08]
James Palmer
Yeah. Oh, I like that. Right? Yeah, I dig it. I dig it. Okay. All right. That's Jake Seeley. Make sure you read everything he does on the Athletics. It's outstanding. Coming up, we have my extra points. I cleared my throat because it's important and I have an MVP pitch to make here on Scoop City as we close it out on a Thursday. You saw that play when your quarterback dropped back, looked off the safety and threw a dime deep for the go ahead touchdown. Well, that's not just hall worthy, that's wall worthy. And you can own a piece of it when you shop. The unrivaled selection of trading cards and memorabilia on ebay. The home of collectibles since 1995. Huddle up with 132 million users around the world to find that rookie autograph you can't find anywhere else. Premium trading cards, singles and sealed boxes. Unreal Live card breaks. Truly unique game used memorabilia. All the epic finds you need are right here on eBay. Plus, with the eBay authenticity guarantee for trading cards, you know what you buy is the real deal. Collect with confidence by downloading the ebay app on the app store or by going straight to eBay.com TheAthletic that's right, your collection journey kicks off right here, right now@ebay.com TheAthletic come through and collect with us today.
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Capital One Bank Guy
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Jake Seeley
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James Palmer
Warning Bombas are so absurdly comfortable you may throw out all your other clothes. Sorry, do we legally have to say that? No, this is just how I talk. And I really love my Bombas. They do feel that good. And they do good too.
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Jake Seeley
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Nick Cosmeier
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Jake Seeley
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- [47:27]
James Palmer
Welcome back to Scoop City, presented by Ebay on a Thursday as we close things out. Well, as I mentioned, it's a Thursday, so that means my extra point, and I'd like to make an extra point here about Chargers quarterback Justin Herbert. The Chargers are 2. 0, yet. They haven't played a game on a Sunday yet and have an opportunity to move to 30 against the Broncos this Sunday. Now, the last time they started a season three. Zero, Drew Brees was the quarterback and they were in San Diego. So it's only fitting that they have an opportunity to do that against Sean Payton, who was Breeze's former coach. Now, the interesting part with Herbert is that they've unlocked something in him, and it's just because they're using the right keys to do it. That's making sure that they built this offense in year two with Greg Roman and Jim Harbaugh to play to his strengths. Not to say he never did before, but now you're seeing a more aggressive Justin Herbert. They're telling him to use his legs more. He has seven or more carries in both games this season. He's never done that in his career. They've encouraged him even throughout the course of this early portion of the season, but at the same time, they haven't made it more complex as they've gotten more aggressive downfield. It's simple reads, I'm told. It's simple schemes in a way in how they're operating, but also because he has a familiar face and Keenan Allen has returned to the emergence of Quentin Johnston has now allowed the offense not to go entirely, just through lad McConkey, which has kind of been, to my understanding, the way teams thought the focus was going to be. Now it's allowing the entire offense to work and operate even better. So we were always waiting for Justin Herbert to take that step, right? Last year he protected the football brilliantly, just three interceptions through the course of the entire season. But now we're seeing him be more aggressive and impactful in the passing game downfield, using that big arm and still protecting the football as he has five touchdown passes and no interceptions thus far. There's only two players in the history of the NFL that have more than 125 passing touchdowns in their first five seasons and no playoff wins. It's Justin Herbert and the other one is Peyton Manning. But in year six for Peyton Manning, he led the NFL in passing, won the MVVP and won two playoff games. This is year six for Justin Herbert. We'll see if he can possibly do the same thing. All right, thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. Thank you for enjoying this Scoop City on a Thursday Presented by Ebay. Thank you for catching Kevin Fishbane. Thank you for Nick Kosmeier. Thank you for Jake Seeley. I am James Palmer. That is everybody that we listed in the show, I think. Hope you enjoy your weekend of football, everybody.
- [49:58]
Jake Seeley
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