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Why The Super Bowl Favorites Are Not As Safe You Think | Championship Sunday Preview
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Narrator/Announcer
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James Palmer
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Narrator/Announcer
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James Palmer
Cost of optional benefits plan features in.
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Nick Cosmetter
Texas and fees vary.
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Narrator/Announcer
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James Palmer
Line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines.
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Michael Shawn Dugar
Qualifying credit required.
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Nate Atkins
Amazon Pharmacy presents painful thoughts 20 more.
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James Palmer
Minutes to kill in the pharmacy before.
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Nate Atkins
My prescription is ready. Maybe I'll grab some deeply discounted out of season Halloween candy. I never had a chocolate pumpkin with raisins before.
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James Palmer
Those were raisins, right?
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Nate Atkins
Next time use Amazon Pharmacy. We deliver. And no, those were not raisins. Amazon Pharmacy healthcare just got less painful.
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James Palmer
I thought the uniforms on Iceland were awesome with the all black and the glass here with the face mask like that.
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Nick Cosmetter
Yeah, yeah, they were fierce.
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James Palmer
I was like, these guys know what they're doing. I was rooting for Iceland the whole time.
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Nick Cosmetter
Kind of. How? Like in the first movie. The Hawks uniforms are badass too.
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James Palmer
Like if I'm Adam Banks, I'm like, bro, I don't care if you redistrict anything. Like I'm a hawk through and through. I'm not playing with these scruffy mighty Ducks. Yeah, I'm a hawk.
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Nick Cosmetter
I'll go place Somewhere else playing Fargo.
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James Palmer
Welcome into Scoop City on a Thursday. I'm James Palmer. Don't forget to like and subscribe because remember, you don't want to miss anything that comes from our senior NFL insider Diana Rossini or our resident quarterback in Chase Daniel or all of the athletic reporters that take us inside the facilities across the NFL and do it better than anyone. And that's what we're going to do on our Thursday road trip, which we do each and every week, but it's a championship edition. First going to go inside the buildings in Denver and in New England and then we're going to go over to the NFC and go inside the buildings with the Rams and the Seahawks and I'll finish up this episode. The finalists have been announced on my picks for MVP coach of the year. All of them will happen at the end of this show. Now, we mentioned that everything is happening around this championship week. Well, the name that's being talked about more than anybody, Jarrett Stidham, the backup quarterback for the Denver Broncos who will get the start against New England. I didn't realize, Mac, he was going to throw my name out during his press conference.
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Michael Shawn Dugar
Jerry, you're a self proclaimed Vibes guy.
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James Palmer
So in this role, can you influence.
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Michael Shawn Dugar
The Vibes more or does someone else.
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James Palmer
Have to help pick you up there? No, I feel like I'm still a Vibe guy. I think it was, somebody was just in. I think it was Palmer over here. He's looking down at his phone, but he was asking me what my turtle box was and it's Mr.
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Nate Atkins
Turtle.
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James Palmer
So I like to keep the Vibes high in the locker room and hopefully.
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Nick Cosmetter
Bring that to the huddle on Sunday. But yeah, I mean, it's, we're playing.
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James Palmer
In the AFC championship. We're one of the last four teams playing. Like, what's not fun about this? So we're going to go out there and give it the best we got and hopefully come out victorious. Who doesn't love a good Bluetooth speaker? I do. Mr. Turtle is fantastic and Jarrett told me takes it everywhere, golf course, around the facility. He's the Vibes guy and I'm a Vibes guy, so I wanted to be a part of it. All right, let's continue these good vibes and go on with our Thursday road trip and kick it off right there in Denver. All right, we start our Thursday road trip championship edition right here in the town that Nick and I both live in. Nick Cosmetter joins us and I've seen him in the flesh. We've eaten some Mexican food together. It was eh. But we let's start here with Jared Stidham. And you've put up a big piece on the athletic. Make sure everybody goes and reads kind of this background deep dive into Stitty. What did you kind of glean putting that together that could maybe give some Broncos fans hope that they have a backup quarterback in the AFC title game and they have a legitimate shot?
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Nick Cosmetter
Well, it's interesting, Mike McGlinchey at the beginning of this week said that this is a moment that Jared Stidham has been working toward for the entirety of his career. You know, he's sort of the rare player that continues to get these sizable backup quarterback contracts despite never being on the field. The quarterbacks he's played behind have made a combined 33 Pro Bowls. Every quarterback he has played behind has started at least 15 games in that season. So he the door has just never swung open on this opportunity for Jared Stidham. And yet he has shown enough behind the scenes through all these years to continue to be somebody who's been coveted in this league. So now it's just a matter of going out and doing it when he has the opportunity. And you know, 10 years ago, Jared Stidham had transferred from Baylor in the wake of the sexual assault scandal that got Art Briles fired. Instead of transferring to a JUCO or a FCS school that fall and burn a year of eligibility back when he couldn't just transfer whenever he wanted to, he decided to sit out that fall and prepare to join a team in the spring, which ultimately became Auburn. But he couldn't stand not playing football. The idea of like sitting still, of not like being around guys every day, he just couldn't do it. So he ended up connecting with a friend who coached a high school football team in Waco, and he essentially became the best high school scout team quarterback in Texas. As a guy who is in between his college stops, the next fall he'd be playing against Georgia and Alabama. But for this fall in Waco, he was going up against these, these kids and great story, he shows up the first day, has his helmet and shoulder pads on. So these, these kids don't know who he is. He starts throwing the ball and the coach, Jeff Holmes, says all my quarterbacks on the team looked at me and said I'm never going to get to play. And it wasn't until Jared took off his his helmet to get a drink of water where they're like, oh, it's Jared Stidham. It's The Baylor guy. So he's. I thought that was kind of cool because it sort of mirrors his story, right? Like, he's been working for this behind the scenes for years, and there's a lot of confidence there. It's just that nobody's seen it yet.
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James Palmer
Yeah, it's been fascinating to see some of these guys in Denver have seen it. Had a long conversation with Evan Ingram in the locker room on Wednesday, and he said, you know, the spiral, the ball is actually very similar between the two guys. He didn't want to say, and it almost seemed like Nikki was going to say, like, I like Stitty's arm a little bit more, but he was just kind of like, because of his experience, there's just a little bit, you know, maybe it comes out a little quicker, a little tighter, a little. And I was like, oh, okay. And then the other part was cadence that I thought was interesting, where he's like, no. Stitty gets up in front of the entire room in the meeting room, and he delivers the cadence regularly throughout the course of the year, not just Bo. These are some of the things that Sean, kind of preemptively has always worked on since Cadence was one of the things that I had heard that might be something that, you know, obviously is a little different with a backup quarterback. So a couple interesting things from. From Evan Ingram, and speaking of that offense, J.K. dobbins on the field on Wednesday, if he plays, and it seems like it honestly is trending in that direction with them opening his window and him being on the field, do you think it dramatically changes what they do offensively or can be offensively?
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Nick Cosmetter
Yeah, I think that is one of the big questions going into this game. And you're right that I think it does point toward him playing because they could have opened his window last week and they would have been within the four weeks of the Super Bowl. So. So in. In other words, like, it wouldn't have hurt them to open it last week even if he wasn't going to play. So the fact that they, like, waited it. It does make you think that he's got a realistic chance of being out there now, how much he actually contributes. Because to me, part of it's the load bearing part of the foot, like, how ready is he to do that? But it's also, you know, the conditioning aspect of it. Right. If this was like a shoulder injury or a pectoral injury, like the conditioning part of what you were doing could have been kept up the whole entire time because it's foot you're not probably able to condition in the same way. Now, I talked to a doctor shortly thereafter, says they've come a long way in terms of technology that you can kind of isolate, you know, the foot in a way while being able to continue to do things. And so I have no doubt that. That they've done everything that they can to get him ready physically. But. But, yeah, to me at that, it is a big wild card for this because the running game, frankly, James, as you know, has not been the same since he went down in week 10. You know, there's been moments. Jalil McLaughlin has had his moments. But, you know, Sean Payton, against one of the worst run defenses in the NFL statistically last week, didn't give any running back more than six carries in the game. And I just. I kind of think that speaks to the way, you know, that he kind of views the ground game right now. So if J.K. dobbins is back and can offer them something, I think that would go a long way toward at least balancing the picture a little bit for Jared Stidham.
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James Palmer
Yeah, I love that you brought up kind of like the. The. The aspect of how guys can try to work through these injuries and the importance of that side of the building. And I just wanted to bring this up because I was having this conversation with a coaching candidate just last week, and he was like, in one of my interviews, I brought up Denver's building in terms of their. In terms of their entire health and nutrition and sports science side of the building. And he was, like I said, it's the best in football. Like, the way that Beau handles that entire group and that entire side of things and the money that the Walton Penner group has put into that. And you know what? It may pay off as everything that they've done there is getting a player back on the field is important as J.K. dobbins. We'll see.
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Michael Shawn Dugar
All right.
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James Palmer
I was speaking to a Broncos personnel executive, kind of going, you know, what do you think about Sean and what do you think about him in this situation? He was like, sean's at his best when his back is against the wall, when he's doubted, and possibly when he has a backup quarterback and wants to prove something to everybody. How do you see Sean approaching this week with Jared Stidham and kind of. I think all eyes are kind of on Jared Stum, but maybe more so on Sean Payton.
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Nick Cosmetter
Yeah, and you're right about that. That back against the wall thing, for whatever reason, like that has been when he's at his best. If you go back to the earlier game this season against the Chiefs at home, that. That was really. That was really the game when they won that kind of put them on the path to the AFC west title. And it was. It was sort of like a changing of the guard type game. But going into it, the Broncos were, without Pat Certain they did not have. That was after J.K. dobbins got hurt. They were dealing with a couple of other injuries as well. So I think that was the game that Alex Singleton missed, the one game that he missed after having surgery for testicular cancer. And so they were down a number of key leaders on this team. They were underdogs. You know, it was the Chiefs who were playing well at the time, and they were. You know, they were on their way to doing chief stuff, right? And the way that he coached that game, I thought was, you know, pretty fearless. They. They attacked the. They attacked down the field. You know, Vance Joseph kind of complemented that with the way that he got after Patrick Mahomes on the other side. And that really has been the. The story of his career. And again, with the quarterback part of it, you look to 2019, when Drew Brees goes out for five games, and, you know, here comes Chetty Bridgewater, and he said, it's. This is not going to be about Teddy, you know, stepping in.
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James Palmer
It's.
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Nick Cosmetter
It's going to be about this whole entire operation around him and what we do. And as you know, James, like, the. The last point of this is Sean Payton always believes that there is a pathway to a win. And I think he's really prescient sometimes about how he lays that out and then goes after it. And in the divisional win Sunday against the Bills, like, they knew that they were going to have an opportunity if a couple of these reserve defensive backs got on the field to attack them. Darnell Savage the safety, and Dane Jackson the corner, they. They played a combined four plays in that game, and yet both gave up touchdowns. Because the Broncos are so prepared for ways to attack the weaknesses in Buffalo's defense that they were able to capitalize when those moments came. And so that's been his strength. And I just have no doubt that he's going to be ready to be able to do that against the Patriots. Now, whether they execute well enough, we'll see. But I think Sean's going to be ready for it.
- [13:20]
James Palmer
I remember talking to Marvin Mims in the locker room after that game last week, Nick, and I was like, did, you know, like, was the play call called because you saw White leave the field. And he was like, I didn't know until I lined up and saw who was in front of me and goes, I know. That's why Sean called.
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Michael Shawn Dugar
Off.
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James Palmer
And it went. And he gets a touchdown. And so.
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Chad Graff
Yeah, go ahead.
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Nate Atkins
Yeah.
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Nick Cosmetter
Which is funny about that, is that like, you know, Sean Payton told the story this week of that play. It was not. It was before they started game planning for the Bill. So the couple days before, they're just going through some of their, you know, some of their staples or, or like kind of pulling back up things they haven't tried in a while, which was this particular play, Sean said, but Marvin ran it so well against Pat Sartan that he was like, hey, if you can beat the number one corner, we're going to call this against anybody. But you didn't call it against just anybody. You called it against the guy. So, you know, well, increase your oven.
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Nate Atkins
Right?
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James Palmer
Yeah.
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Nick Cosmetter
You know, why? Not exactly.
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James Palmer
Exactly. I get it.
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Chad Graff
Okay.
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James Palmer
You mentioned Pat Surtan and this defense has been essentially what this Broncos team has hung their hat on. Nick, this entire time. Before we go, what do you think their approach Drake May will be. He's handled pressure. He's handled, you know, he's handled the blitz actually rather, rather well this year. He's had some issues turning the football over in terms of fumbles, actually. How do you think the approach will be against Drake? Do they do just what they do or do they change what they do at all?
- [14:45]
Nick Cosmetter
I think they'll. They'll largely want to do what they do, and I think they're going to be cognizant of his ability to hurt you on the ground, especially in an environment on the road. This is again, Drake May's first time playing a road playoff game. You were there last week like Josh Allen, who is very experienced in these situations. Second play of the game is calling a timeout because of that environment. And so I think they're really going to try to feed off of that. But they also don't want to get into a game where he's hurting you on the ground. So I think the cage rush principles that have helped them so often this season will be what they do. And so I really look at the interior part of this defensive line like Zach Allen, John Franklin, Myers DJ Jones, Malcolm Roach, Neu Wazirique, like the flowing of those guys. Can they produce enough interior push to where Drake Mays choices when he tries to skip to run aren't good ones. That, to me is kind of the real Key for Denver.
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James Palmer
I love it. Everybody talks about the edges here in Denver. I think that group in the middle, Zach Allen's name, gets a lot of love, obviously. But the other ones you mentioned are a big reason why this front is the way it is. And they don't really get the headlines a whole bunch, you know, in terms of the attention they probably deserve and being a big part of Vance Joseph's defense. Nick, appreciate it. I will see you the rest of this weekend. I'll see you at the game on Sunday.
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Nick Cosmetter
Can't wait. See you later.
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James Palmer
All right, now to the other side of the AFC Championship game. We continue our Thursday road trip here on Scoop City. Chad Graff joins us covering the Patriots, and we'll be spending some time face to face at that game here in Denver. And Chad, the first thing that comes to my mind is this. This is a team that has met just an unbelievable turnaround, has completely overachieved, has had a guy in his second year become an MVP candidate. It's now official. And then Denver goes through this situation at quarterback and it almost feels like has a team that hasn't had a lot of pressure on it this season now have all the pressure on it in the AFC title game because it's going to. You're facing a backup quarterback. You should win this game. What is the week been like in Foxborough?
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Chad Graff
It's so fascinating the way that all of this has flipped to your point of after they got like, frankly, only their eighth win. It was, oh, my, everything is gravy from here. Like, this is the dream. This is so much better than we thought. Even in the playoff games, they were favorites in those games, but it was still like, whatever. If they lose, you know, still an unbelievable season. You've got your head coach, you've got your quarterback. Now we go super bowl window open on the way, and then all of a sudden Bo Nicks gets hurt and it's like, oh, are you going to screw this up? Are you going to lose to a guy who hasn't thrown a pass in two years? You're going to cost yourselves a chance at the super bowl because of all this. So it's fascinating the way that this all has totally flipped where this whole year, everything was like, God, it couldn't get better than this. This is so good. This is the peak. Mike Frable, Drake May. And now all of a sudden it's, hey, you guys are the big favorites on the road. Can you go get to the Super Bowl?
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James Palmer
It's, it's, it's really interesting. How is Mike using that? He finds a way to spin everything into the message. Is this. What has the message been this week?
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Chad Graff
He's trying to almost pretend that's not existing. And so his big message is. And he. He brought this up. I'm not particularly a Mac and cheese guy at the holidays. Thanksgiving, Christmas, whatever. He is a big Mac and cheese at the holidays guy. So his message is, don't change the recipe. Well, the Mac and cheese that we've been working on all year, let's. Let's bring that to the holiday. And so the message is, don't change what we've been doing. Like what? We're not going out to Denver any earlier. We've traveled every Saturday. We went 8, 0 on the road this year. We're not going to go early just because of the altitude or time zones or whatever. Like, we're doing what worked for us. And so that's kind of his message so far. But I'm so curious to see how this is going to play out with Jarrett Stidham, of course, the Patriots. And this is where I almost feel bad for Jared Stidham. The patriots have Josh McDaniels. There's not anybody in the NFL who knows Jarrett Stidham the way that Josh McDaniels does. Drafted him, developed him, brought him to Vegas. Like, if we think Sean Payton believes in Jared Stum, which I think he does, the only person who can match that and knows what Jarrett likes and what he doesn't like and how he processes is Josh McDaniels. And so Mike Framel, you know, pretty openly admitted on Wednesday, like, yeah, we're going to use all our advantages, and one of those is having Josh McDaniels in the building.
- [19:10]
James Palmer
Yeah, he's been my X factor all week, in all honesty, because also if he does a great job against the strength of the Broncos team, which is this defense with Vance Joseph, hey, they're both up for assistant of the year. Honestly, within the NFL, I think Josh is the X factor. I think he's going to. You know what, Mike? I just couldn't get through Jarrett Stidham's head. If a defense does this, like, you know what I mean? I could just picture the conversations because he knows him so well. Let's talk about the other quarterback in Drake May, who I mentioned earlier is an official finalist for the MVP award, 58% completion percentage in the postseason. Kind of bizarre for the guy who led the NFL with a 72% completion percentage, a Patriots record. Nobody's had below 60% and won three playoff games. That's never happened. Ken Drake may do that playing this way. And why have we seen kind of this shift? Is it the defenses he's gone against? Is it what we've seen offensively? Like, how would you dissect what has kind of changed in Drake May in this postseason? A little bit.
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Chad Graff
Two things. First, it's bizarre to see him have back to back kind of so, so average. Maybe you'd even go all the way to calling them dud games. I'd be shocked if we see three straight mediocre games from Drake May even given the situation and the environment and the wet game and the snowballs and whatever. But here's the bigger concern and I think what helps explain why he struggled a bit is the Patriots offensive line we all know was the worst in the NFL last year. You, you couldn't get a worse o line. Chargers fans can late, but it was really, really bad a year ago this year. Totally fine. Like they were not a top five unit by any stretch, but they were, they were not going to lose you games like they previously were. All of a sudden the last two weeks they have had issues that left side with both rookies Jared Wilson at guard and Will Campbell at left tackle have struggled. So Drake may has been sacked 10 times so far in the two playoff games. And more crucially, he's fumbled six times, six strip sacks on those plays. And so whether it's the weather or, you know, hand size or pressure or he's thinking about it more, all of that is like becoming a factor. And as I think about this game, when you look at ways that the Broncos are going to win, it's going to have to start with the pass rush dominating a struggling offensive line and Drake may coughing up a couple of turnovers.
- [21:29]
James Palmer
Yeah, that's a great point. You know what, I was in that Broncos locker room on Wednesday and I had a conversation with Nick Bonito, who I don't know if you know this list. Him and I were breaking this list down. Chad, it was the fastest getter off in terms of pass rush time in the NFL. It goes Myles Garrett, then Nick Bonito, then Max Crosby, then Jonathan Cooper, then Aiden Hutchinson. So they are a speed rush team. Both their edges are top five in that sense. And Nick said, you know, I watched Will Anderson, he kind of smiled at me. He's got a full grill too, so it looked great. He goes, I saw Will Anderson. I saw what Campbell's doing. I saw, you know, speed to power is something I know he struggles with, but at the same time I know I have to be aware of like Trevion Henderson bouncing things out wide. I need to be aware on my side and not just get too focused on what I want to do in terms of going against Will in that corner. So let's kind of focus on him. They've given him some help at times. It's changed a little bit of what they do offensively. Do you see that happening again in this game where you're going to see some extra help in terms of guys that potentially could be pass catchers but having to stay in there for a minute to help out this offensive line.
- [22:36]
Chad Graff
One of the things I love about Mike Vrabel is that he's letting the guys be who they are. And so Will Campbell has been like so authentically him with the slow southern draw and revealing more than I think you typically would or New England people are used to when Bill Belichick was here and if a rookie said a single word like would get scolded. And so one of the things that Will Campbell said was, you know, one of the odd things that I can't quite figure out. And that's a nice turn of phrase because I think he actually said, I don't know what the F is going on, but it was when I have help, like those have been some of my worst plays. It's so curious, it's bizarre. It doesn't make sense. But I'm curious if the Patriots will get it. Like, all right, man, you don't want any help against this passer. It's like, go ahead, we won't do that then. Or if this is just an anomaly, a weird one off state. But what's interesting is that Morgan Moses on The other side, 34 years old, is playing like some of his best football in the last five or six years. He's really turned it on, playing well. And so while yes, the Patriots offensive line is having issues, it's really kind of just focused on the left side. And so I think this is a huge game for so many reasons. For Will Campbell, I think he's one of the most important players in this entire game. But also big picture, all of the pre draft discussion, you know, your listeners know about the arm length and is he a guard or whatever? If he has three straight games struggling against speed rushers, going K and the Chargers last week against everything that the Texans can throw at you, and then this week against the Bronco, like all of a sudden I think that discussion about his long term position ramps up in the off season. Obviously not something that the Patriots want to deal with. Obviously not something he wants to be thinking about. So this is a huge game for him personally, but also just because I think he's. It's weird to say about an offensive lineman that they might be the most important player but Will Campbell might be the most important player to the Patriots on Sunday.
- [24:27]
James Palmer
Yeah, that's a really good point. And listen, these are no slouches of pass rushers off the edge that he's going against week in and week out. Now you mentioned it Cliche Steel Mack, Will Anderson and and now Nick Bonito. I mean these are, these are legitimate players here. I'm fascinated to see if Denver brings pressure. They love to have that bear front with five guys and they love to kind of find their one on ones. I know there's some people there that go, you know, maybe we could just rush four. Like I think that is possible for us to get home. They thought that at times we'll see what ends up happening there. How about like in terms of Drake May looking for different targets in the pass game, are we going to see kind of Stefan Diggs move around, find ways to put him in the slot, find ways to maybe avoid the reigning defensive player of the year that I think has allowed one touchdown and over 570 coverage snaps. Like how do you see them looking to kind of manipulate maybe where Diggs can go or some of these other guys in terms of how they use the passing game?
- [25:20]
Chad Graff
Yeah. What's interesting is I think some of that fits with the blitz and how much they do do it or don't do it because the Texans obviously a team that don't blitz a whole heck of a lot of and they did blitz a couple of times against Drake Mitt and he made them pay for it. And so I do wonder if Vance and the Broncos look at that and say like okay we're, we are not blitzing this guy cause he just tore them up against that coverage wise. I think what Josh McDaniels really likes about this group is that they don't have a true number one target of like we have to get this guy 12 targets or, or what are we doing? And so they're not afraid to throw at big time corners like Ksha Booty beat Derek Stingley downfield for the great one handed grab in the end zone. And so I don't think that they'll look at Sartana and just be like yeah we're not, you know his side of the field is off limits. I think that they'll still consider that, but it will just be interesting to see. The Patriots don't have Mac Hollins. He's not going to be back. Kind of their big bodied possession wide receiver. Without him, they leaned more on Demario Douglas, more of like a true swat, shifty receiver. He had the catch and run off the sweat. And so I'm curious to see their wide receiver usage, who they're using, but also if instead of that they might just say like, hey, we're going to go 12 personnel all game. We're going to throw a bunch of Austin Hooper and Hunter Henry at you. And yeah, we may not have like the deepest group of wide receivers, but we can offset that in these other ways.
- [26:41]
James Palmer
Yeah, I would, you know, I wouldn't put anything past Josh McDaniels when it comes into a big game and just changing things. He has that ability. Okay, before we go, I do have to ask you this. In terms of the way we've seen this defense in New England play in the postseason, we've seen a little bit more blitzing, a little bit more pressure up front, a little bit more kind of man, you know, the way they do it on the back end, why did you think they've made this change and it's worked? I'm looking at the numbers. I mean they've blitzed 40.6% of opponent drop backs and you know, the pressure rate has gone up with that. It's a lot more than we're doing in regular season. Are we going to see that again against Jarrett, Stidiman, anything?
- [27:18]
Chad Graff
I do think we will. I, I think they are looking at this and you know, we'll see. Whatever insight Josh McDaniels provides, maybe he says actually he loves to face the blitz for X, Y and Z reasons, but usually with these quarterbacks who are more inexperienced, a little bit younger, like a coach like Mike Vrabel will want to get some pressure on them, throw some exotic looks at them. And that's what's really stood out about this Zach core led defense over the last three weeks is they have totally mixed things up. They have thrown blitzes that they didn't use all season, these exotic, weird formations. They've dropped defensive tackles like they've done some weird funky stuff over the last couple weeks. And so I think some of it is we're facing a couple quarterbacks in Justin Herbert and C.J. stroud who they felt we can throw some stuff at them and just see how they respond. But I think Crucially, the Patriots defense is just getting healthy. They were missing Milton Williams for the end of the regular season. Robert Spain has had injuries. Harold Landry has battled a knee injury. Like, they just, they're finally getting healthy defensively. And so I think Zach Cor can finally use some of those weird, funky things that he's been save it up. But just couldn't quite use when you had five backups on the field at the same time.
- [28:26]
James Palmer
Makes total sense. I'll say this. There is a big fan of Milton Williams in the Broncos locker room in Zach Allen. Man, he was raving about Milton Williams to me on Wednesday, just going, the guy has everything, man. Like, he can do it all. Technique, moves, pet. I guess they stay in touch quite a bit. And he just said, man, I think the world of his game, and I would assume it's vice versa because Zach's one of the best in football. Football as well. So a lot of mutual respect there. Okay, this is all you get to say. Final score is what?
- [28:54]
Chad Graff
Chad, I don't have this particularly close. Maybe this is total homerism. I don't think so. I just don't see Jarrett Stidham moving the ball against this defense that is playing so, so well right now. I think the Broncos defense will give the Patriots fits at some points, but give me Patriots 24, Broncos 10.
- [29:11]
James Palmer
Okay, 2410. Chad Graff. There it is. All right, everybody, stay tuned on Scoop City here because coming up next, we're going to have the breakdown of the NFC Championship game from Nate Atkins and Michael Shawn Dugar. Stay tuned.
- [29:24]
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- [30:25]
James Palmer
In a world where January is supposed to be boring, one staple of the holidays refuses to end the great deals at Verizon.
- [30:35]
Chad Graff
The joy just keeps on coming.
- [30:39]
James Palmer
Right now, you can save on four.
- [30:40]
Chad Graff
New phones and four lines. Critics agree it's the deal that keeps on giving.
- [30:46]
Nate Atkins
Come into Verizon and save on four.
- [30:48]
Chad Graff
New phones and four lines on unlimited.
- [30:51]
James Palmer
Welcome.
- [30:51]
Chad Graff
Additional terms apply at.
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James Palmer
See verizon.com for details.
- [30:54]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Okay, I have to tell you, I.
- [30:56]
James Palmer
Was just looking on ebay, where I go for all kinds of things I love.
- [30:59]
Nick Cosmetter
And there it was, that hologram trading card.
- [31:02]
James Palmer
One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.
- [31:04]
Chad Graff
Shiny like the designer handbag of my dream.
- [31:07]
James Palmer
One of a kind.
- [31:08]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful. Millions of finds, each with a story.
- [31:22]
James Palmer
EBay, things people love. All right, one of the consistent voices here on Scoop City, Michael Shawn Dugar, joins us. And, Mike, the first thing I have to ask you, though, is just watching that opening kickoff take me inside the building. What?
- [31:39]
Chad Graff
What.
- [31:39]
James Palmer
What did it feel like? It's our first, you know, home playoff game since the 2016 season. First one playoff since 2017, technically. What was it like in the stadium when that happened?
- [31:52]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Yeah, it was electric. You know, I can imagine. That's what it. It gave me, the feeling, and I imagine it gave other Seahawks fans the feeling of Percy Harvin taking that one back in the super bowl where you kind of knew, like, at that point when Percy did that, like, oh, over. And for me, I. I felt like it was over. Right, right then. You know, it just felt like the Seahawks were very ready for that game. I didn't. Just walking around the building, you didn't feel like, oh, man, here we go. This is the big one. We can't wait. This is what we're here for. It was more just like, eh, this is a game. Just like last week was a game, the other week was a game, and the other week was a game. I'm gonna go out there and do what we do in games. And Rashid Shahida, just him taking one to the house was just the most predictable thing ever. Like, leg. Intimately. No one cares about anyone's fantasy football team. I understand. But I. I am. I have a point here. I am, you know, I'm In a pool with a bunch of my wazoo buddies, and we draft. We meet up at the bar every year, you know, it's like a sitcom almost. And we draft players and it's just point total wins. Everybody has a team. There's no matchups, but just when guys get eliminated, you can't accumulate points. And this year, I made sure when I was on the clock, I said, hey, Billy's the name of the commissioner. Said, hey, Bill, do we get points if someone scores on special teams? He was like, yeah, you get six. I was like, great. I'm drafting Rashid Shahid, like, when I was on the clock, because I. I knew that he was going to take one back to the house, if not multiple in the post. I just felt so confident about that. I bet my pool on it. You know, it. And I give that story to say, like, I knew he was going to do that in the playoffs because he did it in the regular season. And at this point of the year, what you want guys to do, and that's what Mike McDonald has been saying, Just do what you did to get us here. Don't make anything up. Don't do anything new. If you were a good tackler in the regular season, well, tackle well today. If you were, you caught the ball well in the regular season, catch the ball well in the playoffs. Nothing new for everyone. That includes Shaheed. If you were taking them back to the house in the regular season, take them back to the house in the playoffs, just do what you do. That got us here. And I knew he would be able to do that. Just like all those guys were on Saturday night.
- [34:00]
James Palmer
Yeah, that's preached in a lot of buildings. I've had some conversations over the last couple of weeks with guys going, like, one thing we're told, just don't. Don't change what we're doing. You know, I mean, the stage may be bigger, but we need to keep doing what we do. That was specific with, like, Denver. They don't turn the ball over as a defense, but they're like, what are we going to change what we do? We're still a good defense, so we start focusing on that. Maybe, you know, we stop doing what we do well when our focus kind of changes and we change exactly what we do. You mentioned what Mike McDonald tells these guys. You have a great piece on the athletic. Everybody go read it about what Mike does in the building and kind of how he gets these guys to play. The way they play, the brotherhood aspect of it, the play for one another, just the focus Attention to detail. I love the part we were talking before here, the four core principles of brotherhood, truth work and violence. Now, I consider him essentially a violent genius. After I read that he is kind of a genius side of things. So read the article for that part. In terms of his matchup against Sean McVay, the genius on the offensive side of the ball, what schematically could we see now that this is the third matchup from what Mike McDonough wants to do with this very talented, best in football defense to go against Matthew Stafford and company.
- [35:03]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Yeah. What makes Mike McDonald's defense so excellent is that he can limit explosives in ways that aren't traditionally done, you know, structure wise. Right. He plays too high safeties, you still can't run on him. And with the two high safeties, you also can't throw very far on him. And at work to shut down Kyle Shanahan, he just. He's probably scratching his head. Well, probably for the next, like six months on how to figure out how to move the ball and score points on Mike McDonald and. And Sean McVay has kind of figured that out. You know, he's like, all right, Mike, you just can't play it safe on me. Like, sit back there in these two high shells. I'll figure that out. And then my quarterback throws no looks. So you really gotta be on your game. That's how Matt Stafford threw for 457 yards in week 16. But where I think, schematically, Mike might have to adjust a little bit. Not totally change his ways, but adjust is to get after Stafford with more pressure. You know, James, they play these guys twice a year, right? So the Seahawks did not sack Matthew Stafford this year in two games. 79 drop backs, two games, no sacks, only seven quarterback hits. They also didn't sack Stafford last year in the one game that they played in week nine in Seattle that they lost in overtime. A game that Puka Nakua got kicked out of, by the way. So they finished that game with DeMarcus Robinson looking like Megatron. They didn't play Stafford in 20, 20, 22. So really they've only sacked Stafford basically, like, I think five times since he's become a Ram, maybe six. And most of those have been done by Carlos Dunlap. I think he has like three of those. Rasheen Green has one. Point being they don't get after him naturally, with their rush, whether It's Ken Norton Jr. As the coordinator much, or if it's Clint Hurt or if it's Mike McDonald. So something has to change. Clearly, Sean McVeigh has figured out some voodoo when he comes up here or they play down in la. So I think Mike's gonna have to maybe blitz a little bit more. Now. Mike rushes different guys. He rushes skinny guys, he rushes buff guys, he rushes fat guys. But he's gonna have to just send more guys than the Rams have in protection because they just don't get to him. And we all watched that Bears game. How did the Bears make that a game? They were sending the wolves at Stafford. It got to him, I believe, four times, twice with DBs. So that's not something Mike typically does. He likes to send four. Just depends on which four. But he might have to send five. Sense six, Sense seven. Because I just don't see a world where they can beat these guys without getting the quarterback on the ground, considering how good the Rams quarterback is.
- [37:28]
James Palmer
Yeah, that's a great point. Okay, I'm a little older than you, but did you play the game ice hockey on original Nintendo?
- [37:34]
Michael Shawn Dugar
I did not. I'm aware of it.
- [37:35]
James Palmer
But yeah, in that game, you could select your players. You selected a skinny guy, a buff guy, or a fat guy, and that's how you built your team. You're like, well, if I got a lot of big guys, I'm a physical team. If I got a lot of skinny guys, my guys skate real fast. I was just going through Nintendo going, you got those three options, and you can build them however you'd like. Options in Nintendo, there weren't many of them. It was great. All right, how about with Sam Darnold? I need to know kind of how the oblique has affected him. But we didn't see him throw a lot. He didn't have to in this. In this game. So what, you know, what does he have to manage with that? And then the other part to me is, how do they manage the pressure? I mean, you look at the way some of his turnovers have happened. When he's been under pressure this season, I think 11 of his 20 have been. When he's pressured this year, how do you make sure that he's not pressured against a defensive line that can bring it for sure. And then how is the oblique? Like, how has that changed anything with how he throws or how they operate offensively?
- [38:30]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Yeah, I think there was a couple throws on Saturday where I was like, oh, okay, the oblique's fine, you know, because it's on his left side. So I said, oh, maybe they just won't roll him out much, or maybe he won't rip a bunch of, you know, deep shots to his left, you know, like he'll be the rich man's JJ McC McCarthy or something like that, you know, and he ripped a. A whole shot to Cooper cup to his left for 20 yards. On second and 20, I said, oh, Sam's good.
- [38:56]
James Palmer
Okay.
- [38:57]
Michael Shawn Dugar
He's good. And then he ripped that. That touchdown to Jackson, Smith, and Jigba rolling left, and he threw that. That was a dot. Once he did that, I was okay. He's. He's fine. He's not going to feel great. I'm sure Sunday morning that. That the pain will kick in, but that doesn't matter if it's a victory Sunday. And I think that's going to be the same thing. Thing. Maybe you limit some of his throws during the week. You know, he got to get extra massages, you know, whatever was within the NFL rule book to make sure you don't feel pain throughout the week. But he's going on Sunday. He's going as long as he can make all those throws. And they were confident he could make those throws. Actually had no doubt he was going to play. I know that Schefter created a very stressful Saturday morning for fans, but when my phone was buzzing with all of my friends who are from here saying, mike, what's going on? Are to. We going to play Drew Lock, they're just panicking. I'm like, guys, they're not going to put Sam out there if he can't make throws. They're just not because Mike McDonald's not afraid of playing backups. If they had to play Drew Lock on Saturday, James, they would have just thrown him out there and expected the same result. I'm not kidding. Because that's what the. The culture is. It's not, oh, woe is us. The backup has to play. Whether it's Josh Jones playing for Charles Cross or Ty Okada playing for Kobe Bryant or, you know, Tyrese Knight playing for Ernest Jones there. You're on the depth chart in Mike McDonald's mind because he believes that if you have to put you out there, you're ready. Don't just have guys out there to have guys, right? This isn't Pop Warner. If you're on the team, that means he believes in you. That includes Drew Locke. So once they said, sam's gonna play because I believe he can do his job, Mike said it on Friday, I was like, he'll be fine. Now the Niners also, they don't have very good defense, so it is easier to just manage whatever you're dealing with mentally or physically against. Against that front seven. The Rams, as you alluded to, are a different animal. They've gotten to Sam six times in two games. I just can't believe that. It's crazy because you say, I say that and then you would think they got blown out and at least one of those games. No, they're separated by one point. The Rams are plus one in two games against the Seahawks this year despite picking off Sam six times. So I think, how does Sam manage that? He does what we were talking about. It's not week 21 in the biggest game of your life with everyone watching. No, it's. It's Sunday and you're playing football. That's it. And I think Sam's actually been pretty good at that, you know, and Mike McDonald encourages a culture where it's like, man, just go out there and do it. Do what got us here. Man, you're a two time Pro Bowler. Look at your completion percentage. Look at all the explosive passes you've made. Like you know how to play football. You got it. And I think why I'm not worried about Sam mentally is look what happened in those games right through those six picks. He threw four and then he led them all the way on a potential game winning drive that if they had. What's that guy in Jacksonville, cam, who hit 70 yarders? Maybe, if they had him. Yeah, they win those, they win that game and then what happens in Week 16? Throws two picks and walks him right down in overtime and throws a two point conversion. So I mean, even if he does make mistakes, which he undoubtedly will, this defense is good. I just don't think it'll break him. I don't. I think Sam doesn't see ghosts anymore. You know, he has like the blinders that horses wear. You know, even he'll. He's going to make mistakes, but I think that's important mentally for him.
- [42:07]
James Palmer
Okay, got it. Listen, also with the backup aspect, everybody in Denver is probably listening to that as well. Going, thank you, Mike. Appreciate it. Yeah, the backups can play. Here we go. Jared Stidham and you know, talking about guys that need to step up into a role, there's no. Zach Charbonnet had 12 rushing touchdowns this season. You've seen Kenneth Walker of late, you know, play really well. And he's actually played well against the Rams and both these games, the way he's run the football, what do they do, you know, which was always something they hung their hat on is having both of these backs in a run game that even when it wasn't great, Clint Kubiak stuck with. And we've seen it better of late. We talked about it last week. What happens to this run game now that it's, it's Kenneth Walker and then what do they do?
- [42:47]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Yeah, a heavy dosage of Ken where the split kind of showed up because Ken was the starter all year. He started all 17 games. But where the split showed up was on third down and it showed up in the red zone. Zach started to get a lot of red zone carries midway through the year. Like Ken, I think since week 12 has had a single digit number of red zone carries. But then look at what he did on Saturday night. All his touchdowns are in the red zone. Like Ken can run in the red zone. So I think you just give him a heavier load there in the red zone which will include increase his, his workload a little bit. But I mean we're at the end of the year like hey man, do what you got to do when you got two weeks.
- [43:23]
Nate Atkins
Yeah, yep.
- [43:24]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Yeah, that, that, that, that's it. So I think more red zone stuff will be for him and I don't. That's not a concern. You know, whenever a guy has a big game when the guy who is splitting touches with him or the other guy goes down, it just reminds me, James, that so many of these guys were like the man in high school, they were the man in college, right. So like they, they, they can ball. You know, it doesn't really surprise me. You know, Jackson Smith and Jigba is the best example of that. It's like yeah, Tyler Lock, it's gone. Yeah, DK's gone. But like Jax was like a five star recruit. One of the best rece Texas high school football history. You know he holds the single season receiving record at Ohio State. You know the single season Rose bowl record. So yes, if you make him, if you throw the ball to him more, he will probably just produce more. And that's how I feel about Ken Walker. You give it to him more. The guy who had five touchdowns on a Mike McDonald defense when he was at Michigan State. I imagine he will just score more and I believe that in the playoffs. But when he comes off the field, that where it is, it gets interesting. Do they use Rasheed Shahid more? He's been a really explosive run player. Do they use Cam Acres? It's the Cam makers revenge week maybe. You know, you know he has his old squad. Vellus Jones Jr. Was active on Saturday. I think the backup role will be by Committee. But undoubtedly this is the. This is it. Ken's in a contract year. He literally just switched agents over the weekend. So, yeah, he signed with, I think it's like Aura Sports Group. They have. They have DeMarcus Lawrence, David Cantor and those guys. So, yeah, he just announced that on Monday that he switched agents. He's in a contract year. All right, Ken, here you go. He's like, give me 30 carries.
- [45:00]
Nate Atkins
What's up?
- [45:02]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Let me go carry this team to the promised land. And I think he can do that one because he's been splitting carries all year. So he's a little fresher than he would have been if he was like a battering ram for four months. And also, like I said, he's built for this. This is why they took him with the 40th pick because he's able to just be dominant if called upon.
- [45:19]
James Palmer
Oh, man. Lots of hit up cancer. Oh, okay. Last one I have for you is you mentioned Cam Maker's revenge game. It feels like there's a bit of a revenge or. I feel like we're embracing bad blood in the NFL right now. We got Ben Johnson, we got Baker Mayfield throwing shots at Kevin Stefanski with Derek hall and Kevin Dotson and Ernest Jones. And what do you see that playing any sort of element I should keep an eye on? Like, have guys talked this week or are they kind of going, I'll leave it, but I'm thinking it. You know what I mean? Type of thing in terms of saying it to you.
- [45:51]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Yeah, there's a lot. I'm, I'm thinking it, but I won't tell you is the, the, the attitude there, which I, which I can appreciate because once you verbalize something, it, it occupies even more space in your conscience. Right. And you just got stuff to focus on, you know, in terms of football, not whether Kevin Don's gonna get you back. You know, if you're there, call and Cooper Cup. I don't think he just wants. He's aware of, like, storylines and narratives and stuff, and I don't think he wants that focus this week. You know, it's like, oh, I'm playing my old team. Imma go get him. I mean, for one, he's not a big focal point in the offense. Right? So you're at.
- [46:27]
Nate Atkins
He.
- [46:27]
Michael Shawn Dugar
They could win. He could have two catches for 16 yards. Right? Like, that's. So you don't really want to just go out there and just run your mouth in that regard either. Ernest Jones, a little different. I mean, he's been on the record it hurt him when they traded him, you know, like he felt like he gave his all to that organization. They traded him right after he had a kid and took some time off for that, and they traded him while he had a bad knee. You know, he didn't like that. Traded him across the country just, just like that contract year. Then he got traded again across the country, you know, with that, with this little newborn, a little EJ5, I believe he's the fifth. So, yeah, they just name everybody Ernest over there, which is fine. You know, I'm named after my dad, so who am I to judge, right? You know, so I get it. But that hurt Ernest. You know, it's like, hey, okay, now I'm gonna show you that. That I am the linebacker that I think I am and that you passed up on. And, you know, he's second team all pro this year, so. Yeah, but with that. Yeah, add acres to that. And, you know, even Sam last year, you know, these guys are still talking. Cam Curl did a. Did a podcast interview just the other day where he said, yeah, what we did to him in week 11 and last year when he played for the Vikings, that's always going to be in the back of his head, you know, and whether it is or not, like Cam saying that just on camera, you know, that adds fuel to the fire too, these guys. What I've learned about the Mike McDonald Seahawks is they don't really do that, the talking ahead of time. Now they win the game and I'll get the best coach known to man, you know, just like we did going into week 18 where D' or Lenor popped all that about Jackson, Smith and Jigba. He wants that matchup. Jack said nothing. All I did that week, I asked Jackson said, you hear what number two said? He said, yeah, I heard it. And he just walked off. And then what do you know, he goes out there, has 84 yards in Levi Stadium. They win the number one seed, and he gives us the best quote maybe of the year, you know, calling diamond one of his fans. So I think that's how it'll be. It'll be very subdued. Not a lot of like quote graphics with stuff that like Cooper Cub said this week. Then if they win Sunday, get the greatest quotes, greatest sound of the Mike McDonald. I'll be all over. I'll earn his first guy. I'm going to.
- [48:34]
James Palmer
He is.
- [48:35]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Because I know how much this, this means to him. But, yeah, it'll be quiet this week and then just very, very, very loud. If they go him Handle business.
- [48:41]
Nate Atkins
Ah, I love it.
- [48:42]
James Palmer
I love it because you're right. Anything's bulletin board material.
- [48:44]
Nate Atkins
Go.
- [48:44]
James Palmer
Go ask the Jaguars. We're a small market team. It wasn't even an inappropriate comment by Sean Payton, but it was, it was used. It was used quite, quite a bit.
- [48:52]
Michael Shawn Dugar
I mean, James, we have, we have three guys I believe in this game named Kobe, Kobe Turner, Kobe Durant, Kobe Bryant. And they, I know about the Kobe Bryant here in Seattle. He takes everything as a slight. He's. He is, they call him Bean. Is his nickname here either Bean or Eight Ball.
- [49:08]
James Palmer
He has to be get something every time.
- [49:09]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Yeah, like he, he just, he's one of those guys who's walked around looking angry and he could be having the greatest day ever. Just like he could get off FaceTime with his mom, walk through the locker room, you're like, why is Kobe so mad? I bring him up though, because he, this is a team that does internalize anything. If you say, yeah, like I think Cam Crow said, they got lucky last time, you know, and maybe they did.
- [49:30]
Nate Atkins
They did.
- [49:30]
Michael Shawn Dugar
That two point conversion might be the luckiest thing I've ever seen. But for the Seahawks, hearing that, you're like, oh, we'll show you what luck is. We'll show you on something that's this team. Anything, it can be, it can have truth to it. It, it'll be a slight. We just won't hear about it until Sunday at around 6:30 Pacific.
- [49:45]
James Palmer
Yeah. When the locker room doors are shut, they're saying it and they know.
- [49:49]
Chad Graff
They know what's going on. They know.
- [49:50]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Awesome. They knew Juan Jennings couldn't wait to play them.
- [49:52]
James Palmer
Oh, yeah. That was a good one too, Mike. Appreciate it, man. Enjoy the game. Enjoy the atmosphere. I know you always love to get down there early. So when we have you back on, maybe after Seahawks win, we'll have to hear about what was said in that locker room. Maybe some of the things you could report, maybe some of the things you couldn't put a pen to paper.
- [50:06]
Michael Shawn Dugar
I got you. I gotcha.
- [50:07]
James Palmer
All right, appreciate.
- [50:09]
Chad Graff
Enjoy it.
- [50:09]
Michael Shawn Dugar
I appreciate you having me.
- [50:12]
James Palmer
All right, moving on with our Thursday road trip here on Scoop City, the other side of that NFC title game. Nate Atkins joins the show once again embedded with the Los Angeles Rams. And Nate, one of the things about Sean McVeigh that I think I respect the most as he's continued to coach at such a high level now, which seems like a really long time, but still a younger coach, is his ability to kind of maybe self reflect, self evaluate, take a Look at what he does right and specifically what he does wrong. I know he very critical of himself after that game against Chicago. I know you wrote a big piece on the athletic about this, so everybody go check that out. But the workings of Sean McVay. And with that said, what do you expect him to do differently or how he went about this process, evaluating himself before this championship game?
- [50:59]
Nate Atkins
Yeah, I haven't covered many playoff games in my career till this year, so that's been different. But it was very surprising to see them win a divisional playoff game to go to the NFC championship game. And one of the first things Sean McVay has to say is how bad of a play caller he was in that game. And there's been times I've covered coaches where that's just something they throw out early. You know, it starts with me. But he kept going back to it and getting specific on certain calls and situations. The fact that he didn't have a feel, and I think that was him recognizing, you know, number one, that they were lucky to advance when that was the case. But number two, that it, it has to be a lot better this week going against Mike McDonald, the number one defense in the NFL on the road in Seattle. And that's, that's been one of Sean's most impressive traits, is how self reflective he gets and how authentic that really is. And that part of it's establishing a culture where they demand accountability from everyone. And he's trying to set the example, but the bigger part is just the way that he is constantly evolving. And I think that's why he's in a very interesting space right now as a head coach where he's going to turn 40 on Saturday. And yet he's been here nine seasons. He's won 10 playoff games and 100 plus overall games between the regular season and the postseason. So he's got this mix of a lot of the, you know, the offensive acumen and energy that they initially hired as a bet out of Washington. But now he has a lot of the proof, as well as the scars of having been through 15 playoff games against 15 different franchises. And I thought the game against Chicago really summed up up kind of how there are parts of Sean McVay that can save him on his worst day. So they came out and they threw a ton in the snow, in the cold. I don't think they knew how snowy it was going to be. It just didn't work. And he never really got it on track. Almost flipped too much into the run late in the game, but they pulled it out. But there were two things in that game I thought really saved McVeigh from his play calling. Number one was the decision at mid season in the middle of a six game winning streak to switch kickers and try a rookie who'd never kicked before. But he was built, he had a long leg. Here's some Evas had a big leg and was built in the cold. And he said a day when they just blew out the Saints and were rolling that we're not going to win in the playoffs unless we fix this field goal unit right now. And so that was a step in that. And then Harrison hits the 42 yard game winner, you know, and then, and then the other one is just sort of the, his ability to kind of reset and read the room. And so when they got to overtime after Caleb Williams made one of the greatest throws we'll ever watch, it was like the ultimate gut punch to see for the Rams to fall silent on the sideline and have that entire stadium rocking. And he pulled the group together and he just in all of his passion and joy and just manic energy says we will win this game. Forget about everything that happened and you could just feel a lift from the entire team. And I think you saw that when the defense made plays, when Cam Crow got that interception, Stafford all of a sudden turned, you know, free again and it hits a great throw. Devonte Adams and Mavis hits the field goal. And so there's a cultural element, self reflective element and the ability to make changes before the losses come in. Sean McVay that has them in this spot even when he wasn't at his best as a play caller on Sunday against the Bears. But we know what he's capable of as a play caller too with the number one scoring offense. So he's going to try to put all that together this week in Seattle and he'll need to going up against arguably the best team in the NFL and the best defense in the NFL.
- [54:29]
James Palmer
Yeah, it's that cat and mouse game between Mike McDonald and Sean McVay is one we've enjoyed quite a bit over the last couple of years here. And so with that I do ask you with the changes of some things and he's, you know, we had you on middle of the season and you and I talked so much about going to that 13 personnel and the decision they made to do that and then, you know, they didn't run it as much in the divisional round. And then I go back and look at the last time they played Seattle and ran it for probably over 50 snaps. What do you think we see in terms of formation and how they run this offense? Because now they have more options, it seems like, at their disposal about what they want to do. How do you see them operating this offense against the Seattle defense that you're right, is the best in football, but they've already played twice.
- [55:12]
Nate Atkins
Yeah, I'm fascinated to watch that because I was shocked that they didn't use 13 personnel in the run game on the road to Chicago. Everyone was healthy. I think some of it was just that they were excited to have Devonte Adams and Pukanukua healthy in the same game for one of the few times in a while. And the last time they played Seattle, Devonte Adams didn't Play. Puka had 12 catches for 225 yards and two touchdowns, and Stafford had almost 500 yards. But they fell just short at the end. And Devontae's often that guy that converts the tough third downs into the red zone. They're going to have to do a really good job of balancing all of that this week because it's really hard to have like a huge rushing day on the Seahawks. But they need to get into more favorable downs and distances than they were against Chicago. They need situations like, you know, third and two, third and three, where the run and the pass are out there. They need to better their protections with some of these tight ends. The blitzes have really hurt them the past couple weeks when they've decreased 13 personnel. So I think they're. They're definitely going to shift more to 13 personnel. I'd be shocked if they didn't with how hard Sean was on himself. At the same time, you know, this is a fascinating game for Devontae Adams because that was the player that they decided was an upgrade over Cooper cup and a very emotional decision in the offseason. Cooper Cup's now on Seattle. Devonte only has one yard on the season against the Seahawks because he played the first game and had a very off game, missed the second one. But I think he's going to play an absolutely critical role for them to really convert in the red zone, third down, stay on the field and not, you know, and just survive this Seahawks defense while also putting up points and not leaning on the special teams that really hurt the them the last time these two teams played. So I imagine they will get back to balance this week. It feels like it's the week where that has to happen.
- [56:56]
James Palmer
Yeah. And when that balance happens, that's where Matthew Stafford Usually goes to work in the middle of the field and finds ways in that style of defense that Seattle plays. Michael Shawn Dugar was just talking about it. That can you run against that? Can you find ways to pass in the holes in the middle of the defense? About that. I love the way the Rams run the football and get guys like Pukinaku and other guys involved on that second level. So guys on the offensive line can kind of work on that first group and they can work it down the field. I think Kyron Williams is kind of an underrated aspect of the way this, this game may play out if we flip it off to the other side. Sam Darnold has had his struggles against this defense. Do you think they have his number a little bit in some sense? Because it does seem like Chris Shula has shown a couple of different things that they can do on the back end to make Sam Darnold believe or think he's seeing one thing. And then they end up doing something a little bit different. Oftentimes it looks like, man, right, Nate. And then all of a sudden, they kind of rotate into something different. What do you think about that matchup and what Chris Shula has been able to do, specifically getting turnovers from Sam Darnold?
- [58:00]
Nate Atkins
Yeah, I do think he has his number to this point. That's something Sam's going to have to prove in this game, and it's a heck of a stage for it. But they faced him in the wild card around last year when he was on the Vikings, and they got nine sacks on him, him. And then the first meeting this year, their plan was we're going to rush, contain him, and they were going to bank on the fact that he didn't want to get hit that many times again. And they were going to run these disguise coverages. And they got four interceptions. Then they did kind of a mix of that in Seattle the second time. They couldn't disguise as much without Quinton Lake, who plays three different positions. But they were able to rush pretty well. And they got two more interceptions, one where they dropped defensive end Kobe Turner into coverage. And so that's the kind of thing that they're going to do is constantly they're going to bank on either the rush getting home or forcing a throw that he doesn't really want to make. And they're going to really mix and match the coverages. And having Quinton Lake back is going to be absolutely huge for that. He rotates from nickel corner to strong safety to free safety, and there's just Something about that guy that seems to bring out the best in the other players. The kind of role players on this team, whether it's Nate Landman or Puna Ford or Kobe Durant, that's. That was the thing that stood out in Chicago that was so impressive is that for as off as the passing game was, they were able to win a road game over division champion in the snow because their defense was terrific. It was Caleb Williams first three interception game since he was at usc. So these guys really notched it up and they're going to have to do that, and it's hard to take that on the road two straight weeks. But I think ultimately this, these two teams are so evenly matched, it's just going to come down to a driver two in the fourth quarter in a really tight game, and they have to hope their quarterback makes more plays than the one they're going up against. And so far they've had Sam's number, but, you know, he did get them at the end of that last game to help create that comeback after some early struggles. So they're going to want to put together a full complete game this time and hope it's enough to go to the Super Bowl.
- [59:54]
James Palmer
I love those X Factor type of players. You know, whether it's Nikki Memorial on Seattle or it's, you know, these guys in the secondary that kind of move around for the Rams. All right, real quick, before we go, do you have a prediction or something that maybe, you know, has to happen for the Rams to win this game or something specific you have your eye on because you're there every day that people listening and watching would like to hear?
- [60:16]
Nate Atkins
Yeah, we've touched on it. I think they have to get back to the run game and not just using it in volume, but it's got to have a nice day. They got Kevin Dotson, their right guard, back last week against Chicago, so he looked pretty good. It just. You didn't see the full effect of him. He is an absolute mauler in the run game, and they just didn't play downhill or between the tackles as much as I thought they needed to. So I think they'll get back to that. He got hurt about halfway through the last matchup against the Seahawks, and if you go back to that moment, you'll notice they got a lot less aggressive as an offense without him out there. They weren't going for it on third and fourth downs. They weren't pushing the ball down the field as much, and that's when the punt started happening. Very interesting. Game for him, too. I'd put him as an X factor in this game because he ended up getting hurt in that game on a play that ended up getting the Seahawks defender suspension for a game. I'm blanking on the defender's name at the moment.
- [61:07]
James Palmer
Derek Hall.
- [61:07]
Nate Atkins
Derek hall, yes. And so Kevin Dodson has said he wants his get back. And knowing Kevin, the way that he's wired is that I don't think that means he's going to be extracurricular and commit penalties. But what he wants to do is play downhill in the run game and put him on his back time and again and he's going to be really fired up for this. So I think they've got to feed into that and let Kevin Dotson really engineer this run game and let that create the balance. And if they're able to run for a pretty good day on a great Seahawks defense, I think that's going to really open up a ton for the passing game.
- [61:40]
James Palmer
I love it. Nobody else is saying Kevin Dotson this week. Nate Atkins is because he's in the building every single day. And that's the insight we get, brother. Appreciate it. Enjoy the game. Enjoy Seattle. Take that food recommendation and we'll talk maybe next week with the Rams possibly going to the Super Bowl. All right, coming up on Scoop City, I am going to finish this off with my superlatives for the season. They're going to be announced at Infant Honors. I'm going to announce them right here on Scoop City next.
- [62:09]
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James Palmer
Right, welcome back to Scoop City on a Thursday Outstanding once again from our reporters going around the NFL on our Thursday road trip. This was a championship edition and they did not disappoint. The announcements have been made for the finalists for the highest honors and awards for those players and coaches in the NFL. Now they'll be announced at NFL Honors the week of the super bowl. And it's always a fun show, by the way. I always enjoy going to it and now I'm going to do it on the show. About my picks specifically for these awards. I'm going to start with Assistant Coach of the year and James Palmer is going to give that to Josh McDaniels. I think what Josh Munoz has done in New England with Drake May is not comparable. You had a player that when I asked around the league there were enough people making questions going, I'm not sure what Drake May is after year one. I don't know what to make of Drake May and now he is a legitimate MVP candidate in the process. I was told that Josh McDaniels put and used for Drake May through the course of the season was nothing short of outstanding. Never overloading him, but also giving him a ton of information, seeing him grow and adding as the entire year went on. He leads the NFL with a 72% completion percentage, which is also a Patriots franchise record for a single season. So that's Josh McDaniel all right. Comeback player of the year. This is a good group. It's a good list. I'm going to go with Christian McCaffrey. The man was on my fantasy team last year. That had nothing to do with him winning this award in my eyes, but he didn't do anything at All. Did I still win the championship? Yeah, I did. But coming back from an injury where it spread from one leg to the other, it seemed like he went across the world, across the globe to try to find ways to fix this and get himself healthy. And at his age and the amount of carries that he's had and the tread on his tires, people said, is he going to be able to come back? That's where I look at Christian McCaffrey and what he's been able to overcome health wise at the age that he's at compared to the other guys that are coming back from injuries and play essentially at the highest level at his position. I think Christian McCaffrey, with so many people writing him off, I don't know if anybody else on this list was essentially written off or say, washed up in a lot of people's minds. Oh, not so fast, my friends. Lee Corso, that is now Christian McCaffrey. All right, let's go to coach of the year. And man, I went back and forth on this, but I can't do too many Patriots. I love what Mike Vrabel has done. They almost had to overpay or pay a suck tax to get people to come in free agency. Milton Williams even openly admitted I took the bag to come here. Well, they're in the AFC championship game. Unbelievable. But I think there's a different category. When you take teams that are just mediocre and you make them really good or a bad team and you make them good, that's kind of what Liam Cohen has done. What Mike McDonald has done in Seattle is, I think, the most difficult part. That's take a good team or maybe a middle of the road team, make a few moves and bring your culture and change it very early in just your second season as an NFL coach and make them the best team in football. To go from that good team to a Super bowl contender is a very difficult thing to do. And Mike has been able to do that. I think that is what puts him in a very, very rare group. Because how many guys got fired this year because they could not get their team into the. The, the spot that Mike McDonald has gotten his group to? Okay, so now to some other players, defensive player of the year is a slam dunk. It's Myles Garrett. Don't even get me started about anything or anyone that should win this word outside of him. I talked to Nick Benito, who's a finalist for this just yesterday, and he told me he is a superhero. So when the other finalists say that about you in the category and you broke a historic record, the single season sack record on a team that played from really behind the entire year. Imagine how many sacks Myles Garrett would have if the Browns continuously had leads in the second half. It's a terrifying, terrifying thought. How about offensive player of the year? I said I didn't want to go with two Patriots with Mike Frabel and Josh McDaniels. Well, I am going with two 49ers, but it's the same guy. My offensive player of the year is Christian McCaffrey. I thought Bijan Robinson was absolutely outstanding. Some of the issues they had playing multiple quarterbacks and. And the issues that they had with Drake May, his running mate on third down. He's essentially their second target. He led the NFL in scrimmage yards. But Christian McCaffrey also playing with multiple quarterbacks, oftentimes being the only weapon that either Mac Jones or Brock Purdy had for the course of a game and everybody knew he was getting the football was remarkable. What Christian McCaffrey did this season is unbelievable. He was sixth in catches. He was second in overall scrimmage yards, but eighth in rushing. I mean, it's just he, he was their best receiving threat. He was their best running threat. It was unbelievable what Christian McCaffrey was able to do for the San Francisco 49ers. All right, both rookie of the year categories. First, I'm going to go with the offensive rookie of the year. That's Team Mack. That's Tetero McMillan in Carolina. No rookie had more put on their shoulders to be the driving force of their offense and essentially led this team through the passing attack with Bryce Young into the postseason and winning the division. So tmac clear cut the rookie of the year in the offensive side of the ball. On the defensive side of the ball, Carson Schlesinger, sir jumps out at you. But I'm going to go with Nick Ebonworry in Seattle. I think what he has been able to do and the chess piece he has been able to be for Mike McDonald is changing the course of how defenses play. Yes, a lot of teams like to play that big three nickel defense. Well, nobody does it better than Seattle and Nick is a big reason why. And I think we're seeing the type of player he is just like Kyle Hamilton before him with Mike McDonald in Baltimore are changing the way defenses are played and Nicki Minwari did that, that specifically well in Seattle and then that leaves us with mvp. The MVP of the league. I'm going to say it's Matthew Stafford and I think it's for this reason alone. It is the most difficult position in all of sports to be successful at. Very, very few people can play it on a high level. I don't think there's even 32 people and there's 32 teams that can play it at a very high level. But when you can play it at a level that is so much head and shoulders between the years better than everybody else in football, I think that matters. And if you talk to anybody who went against him, the way he manipulates teams with his eyes or with the way that he moves players, with the way that he plays within the pocket and the way he plays the mental side of playing quarterback, nobody else this season played it at that level. Of Matthew Stafford. Yes, he led the NFL in passing. Yes, he led the NFL in touchdown passes by 12. Still, I would say it's just the manner in which he played the game at a mental standpoint above the rest of the quarterbacks in the league. And I would say that's why Matthew Stafford is my mvp. Okay, I want to thank everybody who joined the show today, whether that is Nick Cosmetor or. Who else do we got? We got Nate Atkins and we got Michael, Shawn Dugar and we got Chad Graff. Everybody who joined me today for this championship road trip, appreciate it. Enjoy your weekend of football.
- [71:34]
Michael Shawn Dugar
Are you really buying a car online on autotrader right now?
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James Palmer
Really?
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Chad Graff
At a playground?
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Nick Cosmetter
Yeah, really.
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Chad Graff
Look at these listings from dealers.
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Michael Shawn Dugar
Wow, your search can really get that specific.
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Nick Cosmetter
Really?
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Michael Shawn Dugar
And you just put in your info and boom. Cars in your budget.
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Chad Graff
Mom needs a second.
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James Palmer
Honey.
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Michael Shawn Dugar
You can really have it delivered.
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James Palmer
Really? Or I can pick it up at the dealership.
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Nick Cosmetter
One sec, sweetie.
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Nate Atkins
Mommy's buying a car.
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Michael Shawn Dugar
Mommy's. I think your kid is walking up the slide, Kyle. Again?
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Chad Graff
Really?
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Nick Cosmetter
Autotrader. Buy your car online.
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