1/16/26 Daniel McAdams on Greenland, Venezuela and Iran

Summary

Podcast Summary: Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews

Episode: 1/16/26 Daniel McAdams on Greenland, Venezuela and Iran
Date: January 19, 2026
Guest: Daniel McAdams (Director, Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity)
Host: Scott Horton

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Overview

In this wide-ranging discussion, Scott Horton welcomes Daniel McAdams to analyze the latest in U.S. foreign policy, focusing on the Trump administration's controversial interest in Greenland, the motivations behind intervention in Venezuela, and ongoing tensions with Iran. The conversation weaves together geopolitical strategy, economic decline, media influence, and philosophical questions about intervention, with a signature libertarian lens.

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Main Themes and Key Points

1. The Greenland Gambit and U.S. Expansionism

[01:00 – 13:40]

• Trump’s Renewed Push for Greenland:
  • Trump is proposing tariffs on nations that object to America’s absorption of Greenland, stating, “they're going to do this the easy way or the hard way, but I'm taking the damn island.” (Scott Horton paraphrasing Trump, [01:42])
  • Dan McAdams likens Trump’s strategy to “classic mafia: your signature or your brains are going to be on the contract.” ([01:53])
• Legal and Strategic Context:
  • U.S.-Denmark treaty from “’51 or ’52” gives wide latitude for troop deployments in Greenland. McAdams points out the U.S. already has immense access.
  • Claims of Russian or Chinese threat over Greenland are dismissed as unserious, especially given Denmark's NATO status.
  • “Russia’s not short of land… What would they need Greenland for? It makes no sense.” (Dan McAdams, [04:14])
• Arctic Competition and Psychological Drivers:
  • U.S. policymakers are anxious about Arctic shipping lanes and the “coming Cold War with Russia and China in the Arctic.”
  • Horton asks whether Trump is acting out of personal grandiosity or following Pentagon/think tank policy ([05:13]).
• Sanctions, Tariffs, and Economic Panic:
  • McAdams observes that sanctions and tariffs are now weaponized to coerce allies and competitors into line with U.S. strategic ambitions, beyond reviving U.S. manufacturing.
  • “There's a panic that the bubble is about to burst,” (Dan McAdams, [06:15]) with the U.S. $38 trillion in debt and manufacturing in further decline.
• Perception vs. Reality:
  • The hosts joke that Trump might be influenced by Greenland’s large size on flat maps, seeking a “huge win from the mind's eye… from a public relations point of view.” (Scott Horton, [11:26])
• Integration Challenges:
  • Greenland’s 56,000 residents enjoy robust European-style social benefits. How would this fit with the U.S.? “How are you going to sew that into a United States that doesn’t have these things, without either the Greenlanders losing all these things or the rest of America being pissed off...” (Dan McAdams, [11:39])
• Notable Quote:
  • “It’s classic mafia. Your signature or your brains are going to be on the contract.” — Dan McAdams ([01:53])

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2. Venezuela: Quick Wins, Oil, and Geopolitical Grift

[13:40 – 20:45]

• Motivations for Intervention:

  • Horton asks for a hierarchy of motives: “If somebody… what's it really about? And there obviously was no fentanyl emergency. So it must be something else.” ([13:40])
  • McAdams suggests Trump’s team sought “a quick, easy foreign policy success” and to appease hawkish MAGA elements, attempting to show interventionism can pay off economically ([14:26]).
  • He predicts, as with past promises (e.g., Ukrainian rare earths), reality will not meet expectations.

• Corporate Profits and Populism:

  • Discussion of Ann Coulter’s open statements about “stealing the oil,” with Ana Kasparian countering: “Who's this ‘we’... Because I'm not getting any oil money. They're socializing the costs... and now they're going to privatize the profits through the oil companies.” (Shared from Liberty Report, [15:40])

• Libertarian Influence & Outreach:

  • Horton credits libertarian analysis for influencing mainstream and progressive perspectives, highlighting the shift in foreign policy critique among figures like Kasparian ([16:21]).

• Behind-the-Scenes Corruption:

  • Greg Palast’s reporting on figures like Pat Robertson’s diamond dealings in Venezuela and the US evangelical role in interventionist policy.
  • McAdams: “You scratch deep enough, you know, and there you have it… Paul Singer bought the Citgo fortune for a couple of bucks and he's getting now a few billion in return.” ([19:25])

• Grift Across Party Lines:

  • Both hosts lament how supposedly anti-establishment or populist figures end up supporting or benefiting from imperial policy.

• Notable Quote:

  • “They're socializing the costs… and now they're going to privatize the profits through the oil companies.” — Ana Kasparian, cited by Dan McAdams ([15:40])

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3. Media Manipulation, Online Influence, and Iran

[20:45 – 33:37]

• Changing Media Landscape:
  • Conversation about the promise and peril of the internet and alternative media: “We thought that X would actually free up… the digital sphere for people who don't have the power of a CNN or CBS. But… the secret world, the world of influence, the world of bots… has become so ingrained and enmeshed…” (Dan McAdams, [21:00])
  • McAdams warns about covert influence, bots, and information warfare, particularly around Iran and Israel narratives.
• Erosion of Establishment Trust:
  • Horton highlights how the audience now seeks out trusted alternative commentators (e.g., Dave Smith, Tom Woods, Glenn Greenwald) over ex-establishment “fact checkers” ([23:00]).
• War Propaganda on Iran:
  • Both note that while old propaganda tactics (“20,000 died in two afternoons”) are recycled, they’re less effective today. Public support for war is significantly diminished ([25:51]).
  • Horton: “It’s the same old crap. But then it's like, haha, all you have is the same old crap.” ([25:51])
• The Limits and Dangers of Intervention:
  • McAdams critiques even libertarians who reflexively hope for regime change: “Non-interventionists say, ‘No, I don't care, I don't give a crap, it's not my business… The idea that you can affect a revolutionary change from without is such a deeply flawed idea…’” ([27:51])
  • Revolutionary change rarely produces “positive results,” and foreign attempts to midwife it are especially dangerous.
• Libertarian Principle Revisited:
  • Historical perspective: William F. Buckley accepted “a totalitarian bureaucracy” at home to fight communism abroad, leading to a multigenerational blowback.
  • “We can't afford big government at home required to enforce the empire without. And this ought to be the most obvious thing...” (Scott Horton, [29:15])
• Notable Quote:
  • “The idea that you can affect a revolutionary change from without is such a deeply flawed idea that you, you just shouldn't even talk about it.” — Dan McAdams ([27:51])

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4. The Dangers of Easy Wins: From Panama to Iran

[33:37 – 37:24]

• Historical Analogies and “Lessons of Panama”:
  • Horton warns that recent successes (e.g., Venezuela) may tempt administration hawks into overreach, recalling how the “quick and easy” Panama War led to greater risks in Iraq ([34:30]).
  • “Now the idea is if we can do it in Caracas, we can do it in Tehran.” ([35:52])
  • McAdams shares how U.S. “quick wins” mask enormous unreported civilian casualties, referencing a friend and pilot in Panama: “You would not believe how many thousands of people we killed. We just strafed these people. Unbelievable.” ([36:25])
  • Horton cites the documentary The Panama Deception as an important corrective (“absolute horrific mass… massacres documented,” [36:57]).
• The Cycle of “Victories” Leading to Catastrophe:
  • The conversation cautions against letting apparent foreign policy “successes” lull leaders into the next disaster.

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5. Closing Reflections and Hope for Alternative Narratives

[37:24 – 38:01]

• Gratitude and White Pills:
  • Dan thanks Scott for “the handful of white pills you gave me today,” a nod to optimism in a bleak subject.
• Call to Sanity:
  • Horton: “It’s really important to get your perspective and let people know that there are sane people out here also concerned about what's going on and covering these events for you.” ([37:37])

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Notable Quotes – By Timestamp

• Dan McAdams: “It’s classic mafia. Your signature or your brains are going to be on the contract.” ([01:53])
• Dan McAdams: “There’s a panic that the bubble is about to burst.” ([06:15])
• Ana Kasparian (via Dan McAdams): “Who's this ‘we’... They're socializing the costs… and now they're going to privatize the profits through the oil companies.” ([15:40])
• Dan McAdams: “The idea that you can affect a revolutionary change from without is such a deeply flawed idea that you, you just shouldn't even talk about it.” ([27:51])
• Scott Horton: “Now the idea is if we can do it in Caracas, we can do it in Tehran.” ([35:52])
• Dan McAdams: “You would not believe how many thousands of people we killed. We just strafed these people. Unbelievable.” ([36:25])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Greenland and Arctic strategy: [01:00 – 13:40]
• Venezuela motives and global oil politics: [13:40 – 20:45]
• Media disinformation, Iran, and limits of intervention: [20:45 – 33:37]
• Historical parallels: Panama, easy wars, and the escalation trap: [33:37 – 37:24]
• Closing thoughts and mutual encouragement: [37:24 – end]

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Tone and Style

Conversational, candid, and analytical, blending dark humor, exasperation, and moments of hope. Both Scott Horton and Daniel McAdams maintain a consistent anti-interventionist, libertarian critique, drawing on historical examples, contemporary events, and philosophical first principles. The episode is rich with digressions and anecdotes, making it especially accessible and appealing to listeners who appreciate depth and independence from mainstream talking points.

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For Listeners

This episode is a masterclass in how U.S. foreign policy ambitions, economic desperation, and media manipulation come together to drive real-world crises—while policy “successes” often sow the seeds for future disasters. If you’re looking for honest, unsparing commentary and the perspective of independent antiwar analysts, this conversation is essential listening.

Transcript

[Scott Horton]

You ladies and gentlemen of the press have been less than honest according to the American people. What's going on in this country? We're dealing with Hitler revisited. This is the Scott Horton Show. Libertarian foreign policy, mostly. When the president does it, that means

[Dan McAdams]

that it is not a liberal.

[Scott Horton]

We're gonna take out seven countries. They don't know what the they're doing. Negotiate now. End this war. And now, here's your host, Scott Horton. All right, y', all, introducing the great Dan McAdams. He is, of course, the director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity and co host with Dr. Paul of the Daily Liberty Report over there on the rumble and the YouTube. Welcome back to the show. How you doing, Dan?

[Dan McAdams]

Hey, Scott. Great to be back on your fantastic program again.

[Scott Horton]

Great. Good to have you here. And sorry, everyone for starting off with that bright white light in my face. I forgot I had that tab open, man. So there is so much going on. I just thought, man, I really need to hear from Dan about all of this stuff. Figure out exactly which way the planet's spinning right now. Can we start with Greenland? I got a news alert from the Washington Times, as I am often want to do, and dang things, Dan, it's said that what Trump says he's going to put a tariff on any country that opposes American absorption of Greenland. He is really serious about this thing. Right? I saw on the show with Dr. Paul, you played a clip of him saying repeatedly in different ways, they're going to do this the easy way or the hard way, but I'm taking the damn island. Right?

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah, it's. It's classic mafia, you know, your signature or your brains is going to be on the contract. And it's literally that, you know, it's literally like New York mafia, real estate, whatever. It's wild because, you know, I mean, according to this treaty, was it in 51 or 52, we have the ability to put as many troops on there as we want. Basically, we can do whatever the hell we want there. I'm sure we could dig until our heart's content over there. Whatever they have, you know, sunken underneath there, basically everything's there for the taking. It doesn't make any sense. This whole, like, I, I want it, they've got it, and I'm damn well gonna get it myself. It's a strange way to do things, you know, and it popped up early in his presidency, if you remember. And I thought it was just kind of a quirky Donald Trump thing. Yeah, Greenland.

[Scott Horton]

That's cool.

[Dan McAdams]

You know, I Mean, if you've ever seen it, there's not a lot of there, there, whatever. But then all of a sudden it's just become to the forefront. It's like it just hit him again that, oh, yeah, that's right. I want Greenland and I'm going to take it. And not only am I going to take it and not only am I going to flex against the Europeans, which actually I don't have a problem with. I think that's sort of cool. But flex against the Euros, what do you guys got? You got nothing. You know, I think the UK sent one troop there. That's gonna do it, man. So that part is okay in a way. But this whole idea that we're going to use sanctions, I thought sanctions were. The purpose of the sanctions was to resurrect our manufacturing base, not to use it as essentially not tariffs. Tariffs were supposed to be that. And, but they're being used as sanctions. You know, we're sanctioning anyone who does business with Iran. We're sanctioning anyone who doesn't. Who, who refuses to, to, to, to clap when we take over Greenland. It's, it's a very bizarre, very bizarre development, Scott.

[Scott Horton]

Well, in the excuse that Russia and China and, or China were about to take over the place if we didn't kind of runs contrary to the fact that Denmark is a member of NATO. And even if Putin really desired Greenland, he's not willing to fight the United States of America over Greenland. And we have already granted a war guarantee to Denmark and Greenland. This is, you know that they have no interest in shaking up that status quo in Moscow. Come on.

[Dan McAdams]

But as Trump said, we cannot afford to have Russia as a neighbor, even though it's only two and a half miles away from us in the Bering Strait. But that's another issue. It's not like Russia's short of land. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you literally can. But it's not like the. Russia's. I mean, you're exactly right, Scott. It's not like they're, they're running short of land or of stuff that they haven't explored, you know, that they've already explored. It's a vast, vast country. What would they need Greenland for? It just makes no, it makes no sense. People have reported. This is. I mean, he still sort of pulls things out of his rear end because he says there's warships off of Greenland, they're all ready to take it over. And people saying, what is he talking about? There's no such thing. Nothing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Russia is active in the waters around the Bering Sea. They're, you know, they're active in all sorts of places, but that doesn't mean that they're about, they're flexing to take over Greenland, which is just a big hunk of ice.

[Scott Horton]

So now I wonder though, how much of this is that Trump wants to go down in the history books as a guy who did a big thing and how much of it is Pentagon strategy and think tanker strategy for the coming Cold War with Russia and China in the Arctic. Because as the Northwest Passage opens up over Canada, it also opens up over Russia. So now the Chinese can ship their goods north of Russia to Europe instead of having to go around India and through Suez. And so that kind of opens up the whole area to commercial and, or strategic competition. That's obviously a huge part of why they push so hard to bring Sweden and Finland into the NATO alliance in the last couple of years in the name of reacting against Ukraine. Right. Russia's, you know, war there. So how much of this is, you know, Trumpian grandiosity and how much of this is. Well, the Pentagon joint staff said this is on their wish list and so let's do that.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah, we got to justify that one and a half trillion dollar budget for next year. But you know, of course there is some of that, but it's, you know, the US Has a strange idea that, that it's, it can never be cooperation. It's always competition, it's always a zero sum game. We could have just bought the oil from this Venezuelans. We didn't have to spend untold, you know, hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and kill a hundred people over there and kidnapped a leader to buy their oil. They're more than happy to sell us as much oil as we wanted, but we, but we had sanctions on them and we couldn't, you know, they couldn't sell it. The same with Greenland. The same with the passages you're talking about. You know, there's instead of cooperation and collaboration with the rest of the world, as China has done in Venezuela. It's, it's this sort of pounding your fist and saying we want it all and you guys get nothing. You know, and I think it's just, it's a strange mentality. Trump has it, but I think underlying it all, there is a panic going on that the United States is $38 trillion in debt. If you look at the manufacturing basins Trump took over, it has not recovered. On the contrary, it's actually the, the, the curve of decline has steepened. There's a. Plenty of stuff. Fred had a chart out a couple of days ago about it. So we're not recovering economically. The K shaped curve, the very wealthy are doing very much better. The hour as in our oil is not trickling down to the middle and working classes. And I think there is kind of a sense of panic. And so we've got to steal oil, we've got to steal rare earths, we have to steal gold, we have to steal from anywhere we can get it. At least that's, that's what it appears to me. There's a panic that the bubble is about to burst.

[Scott Horton]

Yeah, I mean, here he's at war against the Fed chairman, trying to have him indicted for not lowering interest rates enough and not inflating enough, which you and I understand necessity and business cycle theory enough to know that boy, if we were in his position, we would also be afraid of the impending crash. There's a correction coming. We've seen this happen time and again. And I think Trump, being a real estate guy, he understands that. Keep those interest rates low, low, lower to put off impending doom. You know, let it happen on 80 Vance's watch, you know.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the lower you put them, the, the worse the bonds are going to do on the market. Nobody wants to buy bonds that are, that are priced below the market value. There's too much risk involved. So you're not going to be able to sell bonds, you're not going to be able to, to monetize your debt. You're not going to be able to pay for all this crap that you have on your plate already and you're going back for seconds. So, you know, there's that basically it's, you know, they're shooting the same amount of junk in the veins and it's not having the same effect anymore and there's nothing they can do about it.

[Scott Horton]

Yeah, man, if you have any money, you should be buying gold with it. Central banks are hoarding it up. And if you need some, you should go to RRBI Co. That's Roberts and Roberts Brokerage Inc. It's my buddy Tim Fry. He's a really great guy. Him and this business. They've been over there for a very, very long time and they will help you get your medals and they will always do you right. That's Roberts and Roberts Brokerage Inc. At RRBI Co. And I mean, there's only so much wealth you can steal from Greenland where like we're supposed to just imagine some kind of 99% return on investment for taking all these precious jewels out of the ground or whatever it is. But any of that is going to be enormously expensive and run, you know, pretty tight margins probably for the market rate on whatever minerals they get out of there for the cost, you know, same as anywhere else. So there's always a lot of magical thinking there.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah. We were already supposed to be rich on Ukraine's rare earths. Remember when Trump signed the deal?

[Scott Horton]

Yeah.

[Dan McAdams]

Strong arms Zelensky to sign this deal. And he promised us, you know, everything would be coming up roses, a chicken in every pot. And where did that go? Nowhere. The same is going to be true with Venezuela's oil is not going to be a panacea. You know, it's all talk. And then when you turn the key to your house that you bought, you know, from. From Trump real estate company, you find out there's no toilet, there's no doors on the, you know, in the door frame. He's like, that's extra. You know, you didn't. It's not in the contract. I mean, a sham job. Yeah.

[Scott Horton]

I can't help too but think about this is. Must be so obvious to everyone. I'm not sure anyone's even bothering to say it, but, like, Greenland is really huge on the ma. And even though we all know that the map is not right, and if you look at a globe, Greenland's actually not that big. And I think Trump probably knows that too, but I think he still probably looks at it like, man, that's a lot of territory to take. And even if he sees through the optical illusion of the flat map, he knows that it looks really big on everybody else's map, too, and that it's going. That's really what matters, right. Is not the actual land mass, but people's perception of how big of a win. And the thing is bigger than Louisiana on the map above me here, Dan,

[Dan McAdams]

you know, size matters, I guess.

[Scott Horton]

That's right. It's a huge win from the mind's eye. From. From his mind's eye. From a public relations point of view, I could see how he's like, yeah, man, they're going to name a mountain after me, boy, you know, that kind of thinking, you know.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing that's interesting about it and I did. You mentioned the program that we did about it. I did a little bit of digging before our show. I was already. I was already pretty sure what it was about. But, you know, there are, I think about 56,000 people in Greenland Not a lot of people there, but they do enjoy the kind of European social welfare benefits that we don't get in the U.S. you know, it's a social democracy there. All of your health care is free. All of your education through college is free. There are additional welfare things available to people. There's just plenty of goodies. You know, it's like an oldfashioned. It's like Denmark. It is Denmark. You know, so you got all this stuff. So how are you going to, even with just an island of 50 some thousand people, how are you going to, you know, sew that into a United States that doesn't have these things without either the Greenlanders losing all these things or the rest of America being pissed off because, hey, why do they get all this stuff? And I can't even afford, I can't afford health care. It's out of the question. You know, it's, it, you can't weave these two things together.

[Scott Horton]

I don't think that's a very good point. And you know, as everyone should understand, this is Ron Paul's guy we're talking to here. He's not saying everybody in America should be getting a socialist benefit train like the Dutch. He's saying how are Americans supposed to accept paying for socialism for other people under incorporating them into our country and them getting this special deal that the rest of us don't have but are forced to pay for. So anyway, I just didn't want anyone thinking you were a Red.

[Dan McAdams]

No, no, true. I mean, we already, we already do it for Israel as well. They get the same. Give them, you know, $20 billion. You know, the, the, the, the House just voted to give them an additional three and a half billion above the three and a half billion that we already give them. So it's, yeah, it's, I mean, it's. Our Congress is voting to give socialism everyone else, whether, you know, where we're getting it, you know, we're getting it stuck to.

[Scott Horton]

Yep, absolutely right. Unbelievable stuff. Okay, I want to ask you about Ukraine, but first I want to ask you about Venezuela. What all do you think is at play in the motivation for Trump and, andor the American regime for if not changing the government in, in Venezuela is changing the president down there, like maybe like in order of importance, like what you think is, is obviously it's a coalition of interests coming together as always for something like that. But like, if somebody, you know, to boil it down, like, what's it really about? What's it really about? And there obviously was no fentanyl emergency. So it must be something else.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah, I mean, I think a quick, easy win, Quick, easy foreign policy success is probably one of them.

[Scott Horton]

He.

[Dan McAdams]

He was, he had deluded himself into thinking that solving Ukraine and Russia was going to be a piece of cake. All he would have to do would be. Would be to bound into the room and yell at the two leaders, and they would cower and sign on the dotted line. Well, things don't work that way in the real world. It's not New York real estate. And so I think that that proved to be a lot more intractable. Intractable than he thought it was. So I think this, at least partly, this was designed to be a quick foreign policy win. It's designed, I think, as a SOP to the more hawkish part of the MAGA base, and it's to show that you can do an intervention in a way that doesn't cost. I mean, this is their, their reasoning, not mine. Doesn't cost a lot of quick success, not a lot of bloodshed, and actually will pay us instead of us paying, as we did in Afghanistan and Iraq and elsewhere. That's how it's sold. I think now as things play out, we're going to realize that it's just as with the, you know, the rares in Ukraine, it's a lot of hype and a lot of talk, but when it comes time for the delivery, we're not going to really get that much at all. And in fact, there was a clip we showed on our, on our show list this last week. My colleague Norman Singleton sent it over, and it was interesting. It was a date, a debate between Ann Coulter and Anna Kasparian, and it was pretty shocking. I mean, Kasparian's coming a long way. I don't catch her that often, but here's Ann Coulter saying, we're gonna get this oil. We're gonna steal it. It's ours. We're gonna steal it. And Kasparian said, well, who's this we that you're talking about? Because. Because I'm not getting any oil money. They're socializing the costs, I. E. The invasion, and now they're going to privatize the profits through the oil companies. I mean, she's. She's a half a step from becoming libertarian.

[Scott Horton]

I think she's getting a lot better, man. You know, and I have to say, you know, it is. It's people like you and Dave DeCamp, Dr. Paul and others who have led her that way. She says, you know, I noticed the libertarians really are the best on foreign policy. So then that should raise the natural question in the mind of any conservative or liberal that I wonder why that is. You know what I mean? Huh? They actually, they're not a bunch of hippies. It's something other than being hippies. So what is it then? And then you listen to Dr. Paul explain and you, ah, boy, he really thought this through. And then you realize there's this whole other way of thinking about these things. And then what else is Dr. Paul good on? Well, let me explain to you why the economy booms and busts. And let me explain to you why we shouldn't have done that other thing too. And there's so much there, of course. And so the likes of you and me, we've served as a great gateway to Anna Kasparian to, you know, not that I think she's going to really become a libertarian, but she's definitely picking up a lot of insights from us. Like the one you just cited. That's not typical progressive phraseology there. You know, she's getting that from somewhere.

[Dan McAdams]

So. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, she's an awesome, she's an, she's awesome to have, at least in this respect on our team, so to speak.

[Scott Horton]

Yeah. And you know what, man, it's funny sometimes the lack of cross pollination between different political sects, even when we really should pay more attention to each other. So for example, I was reading some old Greg Palast, who's an old friend of mine, a progressive, good government type, who, he was a former investigator for the state of California's legislature, specializing in utilities, regulating utilities in California. And then he became a journalist. And so he specializes in energy markets and stuff. And he breaks stories that you just never heard of where, like Hillary Clinton is blackmailing the Pakistanis over this energy concern in 2010. Just that you can't find that story any other place. But he's got it, you know, that kind of thing. So anyway, I was read and he was very close with Hugo Chavez and he absolutely throws Maduro under the bus as an election stealing scumbag, whatever. But he's a big Chavista type. And anyway, he goes on and on, Dan, about Pat Robertson's diamond investments in Venezuela and give me them diamonds. And you're going, pat Robertson, the guy from the 700 Club? And Greg palace is going, yeah, Pat Robertson from the 700 Club. Not to be confused like when I was 15 with Pat Buchanan, the great American hero, Pat Robertson, the gangster. And apparently like he has, you know, issued all of these, you know, jihad type commands from his perch in, in his place in Protestant Christianity in America, demanding that those commies in Venezuela must go. And it's all about the diamonds. Just like when he intervened in the Congo. And I'm just going like, man, you can't make this stuff up. That's the world that we live in. Right? It's like a Paul Verhoeven movie or something.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah, I, I, I miss that kind of writing. I mean, think about people like, you know, there's, there's so many like that that they're just not with us anymore. I mean even, even Justin, but those kinds of kind of crazy out in left field. I mean Bob Perry was like that to a degree and it's, yeah, you scratch deep enough, you know, and there you have it. I mean look at Paul Singer. He bought the Citgo gas, you know, Citgo fortune for a couple of bucks and he's getting now a few billion in return. And you've got the Ann Coulters of the world saying we're gonna steal the gas, we're gonna steal the oil. It's not gonna help me and you, man.

[Scott Horton]

And well, speaking of Justin and Ann, like, I, I, I'm sure you also like share Justin's at least like wish to be sympathetic with her. Like there's a certain kind of right wing populism that ain't libertarianism, but it's anti government enough on some things that we just wish they would come with us a little bit more the rest of the way. And here Ann Coulter was at least somewhat regretful for being such a hawk during the terror war and that didn't really pan out the way she thought and that kind of thing. And like, ah, geez, I don't know Dan, is it really too much to ask for her to have learned some lessons and be better than this by now? Come on, it ain't fair that we gotta, you know.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah, well, I mean anyone who dated Joe sober and gets kind of a get out of jail free card from me, so. Oh, is that offer I try to lay off, I don't know how many. Maybe it was one date, who knows? I mean, I don't know how you could date Joe more than once, especially if you had to try to get in his car, but that's another story. But yeah, it's a shame because Anne is eloquent and I think sometimes she has the right instincts. But one of the things I think we're finding out, Scott, more and more on this Iran stuff I think is really has really hammered at home to me is that we thought the Internet, we thought that citizen journalism, we thought that X would actually free up, you know, the digital sphere for people who don't have the power of a CNN or a cbs. But I think what we're finding out is that the, the secret world, the world of influence, the world of bots, the world of, of, you know, covert operation in action, has become so ingrained and so enmeshed in the chaos, which is chaos can be a wonderful thing, but in the chaos that has emerged with the destruction of the official media that you start wondering who's getting paid by who. We know Netanyahu is paying what with our money influencers to, to push certain views. We know with Iran, the same thing is happening that people who are being paid to push. And I find it really very alarming and very concerning to watch this develop because in some ways it's almost worse than the, the monoliths that we have defeated.

[Scott Horton]

Yeah, expand designs.com that's my friend Harley Abbott's company and he is the webmaster for the Scott Horton show as well as the Libertarian Institute. He is the guy that redesigned the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity website. He's done a lot of great work for other friends of mine. And unlike a lot of webmasters and web developers and different guys that I have worked with over the years, the thing is about Harley Abbott and his team is they do what they say they're going to do when they say they're going to do it, and are just extremely reliable and extremely knowledgeable and 100% vouch for the great Harley Abbott over there. You got a website, you need it fixed up, you need a new one. You're setting up a business working on any kind of online project like that. Check out Expand Designs. Com. Well, I would say yes. Like right now we're definitely in the shuffling period right after the, the chaos of the fall of the old regime. And so it is a big fight over, you know, who, who gets the trust. But I think with the, I mean, and there is a lot of censorship and shadow banning and, and that kind of stuff too. It's not like it's a level playing field. However, I mean, I just think, you know, people like you and Ron, you look at the great success of Dave Smith and Tom woods and people out there in the country and, and, and the best of the right wingers too, who, and, and, and you know, like Glenn Greenwald's great success and Matt Taibbi's on the left, people like that, where people really earn trust over time in a way. Like I think Glenn Kessler from the Washington Post, the fact checker, he went and tried to get a substack. Nobody cares, dude, that was all top down thing. Nobody trusts that guy or like whatever subset of liberal Democrats might, but nobody else really cares what he's saying. And, and, and so I think, I think the momentum is with us. We don't have the money or the power of the organization, but overall the narrative is ours because we're the ones who are right. And you know, I love this quote from Colonel McGregor says time wins more arguments than reason. Right. And, but then it's like, hey, one of those arguments is that you better listen to Dan McAdams because he's right about this stuff and when he's warning you that these people are lying to you, it's because he knows better, you should pay attention. And that kind of thing, you know, plays out. And I see it like, you know, in random comments, people say, oh my God, I can't believe this. I can't wait to see what Dave Smith has to say about this. Because they're, they're not necessarily sure, like what does this mean in context, but they know that he's going to put it in context form and they know that they can trust him because they know that he doesn't have anything to sell except trying to be honest and try to examine this stuff as honestly as he can. So I think, you know, the marketplace of ideas has sort of a new chance. At the same time, you're right that it's also polluted with so much, you know, disinformation and bots and crazy stuff.

[Dan McAdams]

But I mean, you've been doing this forever, Scott. Yeah, I mean, you've been doing this forever. You've seen, you've seen it all. You know, myself as well, that's one of the benefits, I guess, of encroaching old age is that you, you have the benefit of having seen things. But I mean, I don't speak, I mean, did you feel a little bit depressed during the Iran thing to see the same old arguments trotted out, the same old crocodile tears being cried for the people?

[Scott Horton]

I think with a much less success. Yeah, I think, I think they got a lot less mileage out of it this time. People, right? Like people are just. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, 20,000 died in two afternoons or whatever. Yeah, sure they did. Oh, the government carpet bombed the whole east side of their own capital city. Is that what Happened. How in the hell did they kill 20,000 people and in, you know, 36 hours or whatever? Give me a break, dude. So everybody, not everybody, but a lot of people. And the polls showed that it was like super majorities opposed to war, you know, 70% opposed still. And so I think, yes, you're right, it's the same old crap. But then it's like, haha, all you have is the same old crap. And like even on my algorithm, and maybe this isn't the same for everyone, but on my algorithm it's Lindsey Graham, we stand with the people of Iran. Laura Loomer, we stand with the people of Iran. Ben Shapiro, we stand with the people of Iran. Lindsey Graham or Mark Levin. Oh, like all of the absolute worst Israeli agents of influence, you know, and despise say, oh, we love the people of Iran so much, we have to go help them. For me it's like, keep it up, boys. Like, this is. Thank you. That's what I want. See everybody, Ben Shapiro, self appointed leader of the American conservative movement, says, fall in the line. How do you like that? And I think the answer is I don't like it. You know what I mean? I think whatever Ben Shapiro's for, I'm. Again, it.

[Dan McAdams]

See, you're giving me some white pills. I need to give you like part of my therapy bill, you know, you're making me feel better. That's nice, but you know, it's the whole, like, that's maybe that's what I need to start doing, but you know, it's the whole. Well, I never thought I'd see Scott Horton shilling for the aas, you know, and it's just, it's just so tiring, you know? Yeah, so tiring me, you know?

[Scott Horton]

No, I.

[Dan McAdams]

And the word, the other.

[Scott Horton]

Go ahead, go.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah, I was just gonna say the other bad thing is that you get a lot of this from libertarians like the Kadotypes and others, you know, like, well, we all hope that the Iranians can fight and get their freedom back. And like non interventionists to say, no, I don't care, I don't give a crap, it's not my business. I don't understand their culture or their society if they want to live in a religious based society. Songs are not bothering me. I don't care what they do. They can all marry monkeys if they want. It doesn't bother me, you know, and people just can't seem to let go of this messianic idea, this American messianic, you know, messianic view. Of the world that we've got to conquer them all to make them just like us. The fact of the matter is revolutionary change has very, very rarely produced positive results. And countries will evolve at their own pace based on very different factors, you know, including culture and history and religion and all sorts of things. So the idea that you can affect a revolutionary change from without is such a deeply flawed idea that you, you just shouldn't even talk about it. Just like you shouldn't tell your neighbor, hey, you should raise your kids this way or you should go to this church or don't ever drive a Ford or whatever. I mean, or I'll shoot you. I mean it's. People just can't let go of this idea that they can meddle in people's lives.

[Scott Horton]

Yeah, well, and look, I mean, to go back to basic libertarian anti imperialism kind of 101, here it was William F. Buckley who said in 1952 that because of the Soviet communist enemy, we must accept a totalitarian bureaucracy on our shores, even with Truman at the reins of it all in order to oppose the Soviet Union without. And of course everyone on the right who disagreed with that, the disagreement was yeah, but you're going to turn, you're avowedly going to turn America into a communist country, in effect, in the name of preventing it. I mean, this is. How do you turn the John Birch Society anti war. Right. It sure ain't out of bleeding heart sympathy for the people on the other side in these red countries. It was that, wait a minute, we can't afford the containment policy in Asia. We can't afford big government, the big government at home required to enforce the empire without. And this ought to be the most obvious thing, you know.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah, absolutely. And even worse than Truman after that we got the Dois brothers, you know, who brought the whole thing sub rosa, you know, they brought it home, put it under the rug and blew the world up, set the world on fire.

[Scott Horton]

Y built a hell of a hbomb arson. All those guys, Rockefeller lawyers, the both of them, if I remember right. Well, Dan, so. And look, I think it's fair to say that we could wish people well and we can have. I mean, libertarianism. It's not strictly this because there are different kind of factions and belief systems and whatever, but like I'm a basic Jeffersonian on the sense that like it's self evident to me that everyone is born free and that includes Iranians. But I just think it is such a gross oversimplification and kind of ridiculous conclusion that if Iranians are born with natural rights that the US Government has to guarantee those rights. And those things just have nothing to damn do with each other. And I can sit here and have sympathy for someone else being oppressed, but then again, you know, like, I forgot who told me this joke the first time the one economist says to the other economist, how's your wife? And then the economist says, compared to what? And so that's the whole thing. Oh, you don't like the Ayatollah, huh?

[Dan McAdams]

Well.

[Scott Horton]

Well, maybe you prefer a decade and a half of suicide bombings and head shoppings and. And, you know, Arabs from the west fighting Balookis from the east and Kurds from the north and Azeris, you know, from the north. And. And then with the Shiite Muslim population desperately trying to hang on to their ruling Ayatollah regime, well, you might think that the Ayatollah common e steady reign, stable reign since 1989 was better than that if that was what happened next. And there's no guarantees whatsoever. You know, you talk about revolutionary change is not likely to work coming from without, boy, especially in the case of smashing Persia to pieces to see what happens after that. Dan, I would bet that it ain't going to be nice, especially if you look at what happened in Syria and in Libya and Iraq and these other countries that we've overthrown and Afghanistan in just the last 25 years here.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah. You know, Glenn Greenwald had a great. I should have. I should have saved it. He had a great comment. Some people were hassling him, like, why aren't you demonstrating in favor of the people in Iran fighting for their freedom? You know, there you were on Gaza and, and, and, and elsewhere. Why didn't you have anything to say to this? And he said, well, these are the things that I'm opposing because of my own government's involvement. I can actually have an effect on it, you know, by, by demanding that my government no longer backstop Israel's oppression and genocide in Gaza and, and attack on. On Venezuela and what have you. He said, so that this is not my cause. My cause is to get my government to stop doing things in my name that I don't want them to do, and then I can't afford doing. And I think that's. He nails it on the head perfectly there. He said it more eloquently than I'm repeating it here, be honest. But it was that same point, you know, because every one of these things aren't the same. Some are different.

[Scott Horton]

Yep. Hey, guys, Scott here. You know, You've probably noticed when I'm interviewing somebody or somebody's interviewing me, I've got this great bust of Dr. Ron Paul in the background on my bookshelf here. Well, you can get one like that too. They're available again from the great artist Rick Casale. Just go to my website, Scott Horton.org and look in the right hand margin. Click the link through there and use promo code Horton. You'll save 25 bucks and get free shipping at least in the lower 48 states. And he does custom work as well. And you know, my real worry here is that after Venezuela, from the point of view of the White House, that that was so easy that maybe we can get away with more. In fact, this is a hit refresh on anti war.com right before we went on. The new headline is the. I think it's the Eisenhower is on its way to the Gulf now. So they're converting Lincoln, actually. Oh, the Abraham Lincoln. That's right, yeah. And so, so the, the threat of war there, you know, certainly isn't over. And if you look at recent history, semi recent history here in the 1989 war in Panama, they didn't quite just go in there and nab him. It took a couple of days to talk him out of a church where he held up or whatever. But they got Noriega out of there and it was considered one and done and quick and easy. And the USSR isn't here to oppose us anymore. They didn't ask nobody on no UN Security Council. They just went ahead and do what they want. And then a few months later, whether deliberately or incidentally, I think incidentally, as I describe it in Enough Already. But they eventually, they essentially baited and trapped Saddam Hussein into invading Kuwait. And then they said outrage upon outrage as this guy crossed international borders. And we told him to only take the northern oil fields, but he took the whole country. So now we're mad. And you know what? Panama was so easy, I bet we could just go in there and wreck a rock real quick and force them out of Kuwait and it'd be fun. So they refused to negotiate for the next six months so they could have their war. And then it was known as the quick and easy 100 hour ground war. Over and done with. So simple. And then of course, we've been stuck in Iraq for 35 years, ever since then. And the idea was if we could do it in Panama, we can do it in Baghdad. So now the idea is if we can do it in Caracas, we can do it in Tehran. And maybe not a snatch and grab, but at least, boy, isn't special operations power impressive? And can't we just do just about anything we want to with it? And I, I really am afraid that that's the attitude that Trump is just kind of swimming in right now in the White House is, like, high on that. The ease of that intervention there.

[Dan McAdams]

And narratives are, are dangerous things. I mean, they do cover for reality. I was in, I was in grad school with a, with a, with a fellow who was a, a fighter pilot in the Panama operation, and he came back completely shattered. He said, you would not believe how many thousands of people we killed. We just strafed these people. Unbelievable. So the word that we got, it wasn't as quick and easy and painless. Maybe to us it was painless, but not to the people of Panama. Thousands of people were killed in that operation completely unnecessarily.

[Scott Horton]

Yeah. In fact, there's a great documentary about that called the Panama Deception that is narrated by Elizabeth Montgomery from Bewitched. And so people need a little hook there. It's Elizabeth Montgomery narrating the thing. And they do talk about absolute horrific mass. They document horrific massacres in that documentary. Some Peter Dale Scott fair, I believe, is the origin of that. Good stuff.

[Dan McAdams]

Yeah.

[Scott Horton]

Yeah, man. Okay. Well, look, man, I don't want to take up too much time on your Friday afternoon here. I'll let you go. But thank you so much for coming on, talking about this terrible stuff with me. I think it's really important to get your perspective and let people know that there are sane people out here also concerned about what's going on and covering these events for you.

[Dan McAdams]

Well, thanks for the handful of white pills you gave me today. Honestly, I'm not even kidding. I appreciate them.

[Scott Horton]

There you go. Yeah, let's all go celebrate. All right, Everybody, that's Dan McAdams. He is director of the Ron Paul Institute and co host of the Liberty Report. Thanks, Dan.

[Dan McAdams]

Thanks, Scott. Great be on the show.

[Scott Horton]

The Scott Horton show is brought to you by the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom, Robertson Roberts Brokerage, Inc. Mundo's Artisan Coffee, Tom Woods, Liberty Classroom and APS Radio News. Subscribe in all the usual places and check out my books, Fool's Errand. Enough already. And my latest, Provoked, How Washington Started the New Cold War With Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine. Find all of the [e-mail] and I'm serializing the audiobook of Provoked at scothortonshow.com and patreon.com. scott Hortonshaw show bumpers by Josh Langford Music intro and outro videos by Dissident Media Audio mastering by Podsworth Media See y' all next time. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone paying Big Wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month, of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway, give it a try at mintmobile. Com. Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra CFL terms at mintmobile. Com.