2/6/26 Matt Williams on What the Epstein Files Reveal about the Global Elites

Summary

Scott Horton Show – Just the Interviews
Episode: Matt Williams on What the Epstein Files Reveal about the Global Elites
Release Date: February 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this hard-hitting episode, Scott Horton welcomes Australian Afghan war veteran and analyst Matt Williams (Willy OAM) to dig into the recent release of the "Epstein Files." They explore how these revelations pull back the curtain on the behavior and power structures of global elites, their ties to world affairs (especially in Ukraine and Russia), and why the public response has been tepid. The conversation is candid, sometimes outraged, always incisive, weaving together geopolitics, class analysis, and the crisis of accountability among those in power.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Epstein Files: What Do They Really Reveal?

• The Ukraine Connection (02:26–04:07):
  • Newly released emails from Jeffrey Epstein to Ariane de Rothschild (March 2014) reference making money from “chaos in Ukraine."
  • Williams points out the tendency for elites to profit from conflict, speculating shorting the ruble around the Crimea crisis.
  • “So they're in it to make money. And it's a horrible, horrible thing.” – Matt Williams [04:07]
• Elite Corruption and Celebrity Silence (04:07–07:36):
  • Williams draws a sharp contrast between celebrities' activism around other issues versus the silence on Epstein’s elite network.
  • Quote: “Why hasn't one single celebrity… outraged by this ring of elites?” – Matt Williams [05:45]
• Eastern European and Intelligence Links (07:36–12:30):
  • Suggested efforts to stage coups in Russia, with figures like Boris Nikolic (Epstein’s executor and Gates advisor) and Ilya Ponomarev (head of FRL/Freedom of Russia Legion) implicated.
  • Williams is skeptical about claims this was a “Russian KGB operation,” reminding listeners the KGB hasn’t existed since 1991.
  • The narrative is controlled: “We are being shown what they want us to see… tactically released in many ways.” – Matt Williams [13:42]

2. Who’s Who in the Epstein Web?

• Boris Nikolic: Epstein executor, Bill Gates adviser, and a World Economic Forum associate [09:16–09:30].
• Ilya Ponomarev: Russian ex-politician with alleged ties to groups staging anti-Putin operations; now involved in paramilitary structures between Poland and Ukraine, ostensibly for “deniability.”

3. Institutional Accountability and Media Complicity

• Williams and Horton agree the files, though a glimpse behind the curtain, are selective and crafted to limit genuine accountability [13:42–16:00].
• Celebrities and elites operate by “plausible deniability,” with even open secrets never being fully prosecuted.
• Righteous outrage: “If we saw fully behind the curtain… there would be people getting strung up from signposts.” – Matt Williams [13:42]

4. Hypocrisy, Social Reaction, and Justice Deficit

• Horton observes the appetite for outrage is oddly limited: “People aren’t angry enough about this.” [18:01]
• Williams contrasts career-ending for minor infractions in political subcultures with the impunity of global elites.
  • “Your moral ethic compass is broken.” – Matt Williams, on post-2008 associations with Epstein [16:00–18:01]
• Notable example: “If I was charged with something as horrible as that, you wouldn’t be having me on the podcast.” – Matt Williams [17:25]

5. Token Penalties vs. Actual Justice

• Discussion of resignations (e.g., Prince Andrew, Lord Mandelson, Ukrainian officials) as insufficient justice for severe crimes [23:59–24:09].
• Calling out “Western whitewashing” of accountability: “That is not justice… The CEO resigned and they paid a fine.” – Matt Williams [24:24]

6. Systemic Rot: From Ukraine to U.S. Society

• Diversions of taxpayer funds, institutional corruption, and unaccountable power: “It is them and us. It’s not left and right, it’s them and us.” – Matt Williams [19:37]
• The war in Ukraine is cited as a conduit for theft and high-level embezzlement, often by Western-backed politicians fleeing accountability [24:09–28:40].
• “No one with any power is ever held to account.” – Matt Williams [28:09]

7. Class Divides and Economic Realities

• Policy solutions for debt (raising retirement age) reveal how detached many elites are from the working class [28:41–32:46].
  • “Only someone who's never really had a job in his life could talk that way.” – Scott Horton [29:55]
• Williams lambasts Ben Shapiro and similar pundits: “Never worked a day in his life… send me an MRI of your knees.” [30:19]

8. The Fraudulent Monetary System

• Horton’s libertarian frustration with fiat currency, the Cantillon effect, and how inflation derails ordinary people [35:18–38:29].
  • “We have a fraudulent monetary system… and that's not going to change.” – Scott Horton [35:18]
• Rising costs force people to buy unhealthy food, creating long-term socioeconomic and health repercussions [38:29–39:50].

9. Comparisons with China; Western Decline

• Williams describes his recent trip to China, surprised by open criticism of the government among youth, superior infrastructure, and a sense of national unity [39:50–45:41].
  • “I went to China thinking this is all a facade… It blew me away.” – Matt Williams [43:00]
• He warns: “We’re in big, big, big trouble. The young people… highly educated… working together.” [43:20]
• Western censorship: Williams notes his critical video of China was spread freely in China but restricted in the West, ironic considering Western censorship concerns [45:47].

10. Accountability and Free Speech Crises

• Increasing subjectivity of law and the danger of rule by offense in Australia and the West [46:34–47:57].
  • “Our law is literally completely subjective… that leads us nowhere but tyranny.” – Matt Williams [47:57]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Epstein Files’ Limited Transparency:

  “Let’s not act like this isn't deliberately released in drips and drabs so we can't put the whole connect… It’ll throw under the bus people of which they're willing to burn. But it will never give you… beyond a reasonable doubt. We are being shown, in my opinion, what they want us to see.”
  – Matt Williams [13:42]

• On Social Passivity:

  “People aren’t angry enough about this… It's them and us. It’s not left and right.”
  – Matt Williams [19:37]

• On Justice for Elites:

  "If the allegations against Prince Andrew are true, you're not getting kicked out of the cottage. Like, he should be in a cell for the remainder of his miserable piece of shit life."
  – Matt Williams [24:24]

• On Retirement and Class Disconnection:

  "Only somebody who's never really had a job in his life could talk that way. Some guy sits in an air conditioned office… then he goes, yeah, you should have to work until you're 70."
  – Scott Horton [29:55]

• On Living Standards and Systemic Failure:

  "America is just a big ranch where Israel grows their cannon fodder, their tax fodder."
  – Scott Horton [28:41]

• On China Comparison:

  "Go there and have a look… you’ll go, I may not want to live here, but this is a huge threat to the poles of power and where they sit at the moment."
  – Matt Williams [44:29]

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Important Timestamps

• Epstein–Ukraine links discussed: 02:26–04:07
• Elite accountability, celebrity silence: 04:07–07:36
• CIA/KGB narratives, intelligence ties: 07:36–12:30
• Selective file release / “big club” analogy: 13:42–16:00
• Morality of associating with Epstein post-2008: 16:00–18:57
• Systemic injustice, resignation ≠ justice: 23:59–28:09
• Class divide, retirement debate: 28:41–32:46
• Monetary policy, fiat currency critique: 35:18–38:29
• China trip and Western misconceptions: 39:50–45:41
• Free speech and legal subjectivity: 46:34–47:57

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Tone & Style

The episode is deeply skeptical, bluntly critical, and tinged with outrage at injustice. Horton injects classic libertarian analysis, while Williams brings an Australian’s distance and a veteran’s clarity about war, class, and hypocrisy at the top. Their conversation snaps between specific emails, high-level geopolitical moves, and the broad sweep of social frustration. Both are unflinching—sometimes darkly humorous, always punchy.

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For more, follow Matt Williams as “Willy OAM” on YouTube, and check out Scott Horton’s work and serializing audiobooks at scotthorton.org.

Transcript

[A]

You ladies and gentlemen of the press have been less than honest according to the American people.

[B]

What's going on in this country? We're dealing with Hitler revisited.

[A]

This is the Scott Horton Show.

[B]

Libertarian foreign policy, mostly. When the president does it, that means that it is not a liberty.

[A]

We're gonna take out seven countries. They don't know what the they're doing. Negotiate now.

[B]

End this war.

[A]

And now, here's your host, Scott Horton. All right, you guys, I got Matt Williams on the line again. Willie, O A M, they call him on the YouTube there he is an Australian Afghan war vet and really brilliant analyst of American foreign policy for what it's worth, including the horrific war in Ukraine and in Gaza as well, and a lot of other great stuff. So welcome back to the show. How you doing, mate?

[B]

Hey, thank you for, thank you for having me on again. I, I really appreciate it, you being here with me. And as well, I just personally like to say thank you for, you know, staying in touch over the past months, as well as the lovely invite into your home and into your family. When I was in America too, people should, people should know that part there because it's easy to have a online Persona, but you know how lovely and welcoming you and your family were to me as some random off the Internet when I was, when I was in, in the States. So, mate, thanks for having me back.

[A]

Yeah, there you go. You hear that, everybody? I'm a great guy. William, vouch for me, man.

[C]

All right.

[A]

No, tell me, Matt, you are, you're expert in a lot of things and one of them especially has been the war in Ukraine over these past years. I can't believe it's been four years of this war. We're going to catch up a little bit about what's happening in the war maybe a little bit later in the interview here.

[B]

It's now longer than the European theater of the second. Wow.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. The Russia's involvement, Soviet involvement in the Second World War was 1418 days. 1418. And that crossed over only a couple of weeks ago. Of course, the scale of war and scale of loss is dramatically different. Massively, massively different. And the scale of even mobilization. But the length of the war is extreme. Wow.

[A]

Yeah, it really is something else. And now, okay, so I do want to talk about the war, but I want to talk about Ukraine itself and like the politics of the things and the current events here is the release of the Epstein files. One of the first things that people found, one of the first things I saw on Twitter about it was oh my God, look at. Here's Jeffrey Epstein in an email to Ariane de Rothschild in March of 2014 saying, hey, we can make money. I forget the exact quote. I'm sorry, I'm paraphrasing. We can make a lot of money off this chaos in Ukraine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so it's horrible, man, it is. And now I don't know if anybody had developed the story much further than that. Did they. Were they able to show what kind of investments he made or put options he chose or. I. Oh, that was one of the things from Lord Mandelson in England.

[B]

Right. Was.

[A]

Gave him. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm confused in two different things. I'm sorry.

[B]

No, you're right. But, but again, a lot of this is vague, likely on purpose. You know, these people don't operate incredibly publicly with what they are doing. You know, that is part of it. That's part of the genius, if you will, behind it. But that email back on the 18th of March 2014 was Ukraine. Our people should provide many opportunities. Many from. Of course, I know what they did.

[A]

They shorted the ruble. They shorted the ruble. I forgot if that was the Mandelson thing or not. I was conflating with something else, I think. But there was, that was what.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Talked about with someone else was kind of anticipating the loss of Crimea, I guess, right before the Russians.

[B]

Wouldn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever that, that there's. Now people look at this. As far as any of these people fighting, of course they're not. Are their kids fighting? Of course they're not. So they're in it to make money. They're in it to make money. And it's a horrible, horrible thing. I think Ricky Gervais said it well to sum up the. The elitist class where he said at the Grammys, he said if the Taliban started a streaming service, you guys would contact your agents. And I think he sums up well in that of like how that, that elite, which are those people in that room are the elite, the Hollywood elite. How that, how they, how they see basically everyone else and how it's money driven. And you know what is a interesting observation is when a career criminal was killed by a policeman of George Floyd, every single celebrity on earth posted a black square on their profile. Why has not one single celebrity that I've really seen, like I'm meaning proper celebrity, not online famous, I mean Hollywood famous. Why are none of them outraged by this, this ring of elites that has now been broken up Now, I'm not saying they're in it, but I'm saying of. Why aren't you. Why aren't you talking about this? Why is Billie Eilish talking about stolen land? Why is she not talking about this ring? Now, I'm not saying that both aren't a social issue that, you know, people on this side of politics will bring up. That one's a hell of a lot larger and more relevant to the day than another. So there's all that is suspicious to me as well. This whole thing, mate, is just a absolute mess. The. The way that there's Eastern Europeans involved through it, the way that it appears through Boris Nikolik and Ilya Ponomarev, who was a Russian politician, it looks like they were trying to stage a coup against Vladimir Putin. That's what it looks like to me. I know that all of the Western media, all the Western media, all their mouthpieces and the politicians, both the Brits and Poles, and I guarantee everyone else will be involved in it. They are all saying this was a Russian KGB operation led by Vladimir Putin. Now, firstly, KGB has not existed since 1991. So details, details that matters, though, like, that does matter. You were saying something that doesn't exist is running an operation. So this is the first thing of saying, like you might. Oh, you nitpicking language. No, the reason I'm nitpicking that language is obviously they have not done the first shred of research into this. Okay? It's either fsb, svr, gru. And the thing is, if the Brits or the polls, well, the west media, if they are saying it was the Russians, let's for a minute say it is the Russians. So therefore we have to accept with that narrative that the Russians have compromised the elite class and have millions of files that compromise the elites. What I'm saying is, if you believe that narrative, you also have to believe that. And we're not acting as if that is true, but at the same time, holy damn, that is a big, big. A big escalation. If it is. If Putin has access to compromise all the elites, I don't see anyone saying we should then nuke the. The SVR GRU archives, because I tell you, it's pretty damning at the moment.

[C]

Yeah, expand designs.com. that's my friend Harley Abbott's company and he is the webmaster for the Scott Horton show as well as the Libertarian Institute. He is the guy that redesigned the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity website. He's done a lot of Great work for other friends of mine. And unlike a lot of webmasters and web developers and different guys that I have worked with over the years, the thing is about Harley Abbott and his team is they do what they say they're going to do when they say they're going to do it, and are just extremely reliable and extremely knowledgeable and 100% vouch for the great Harley Abbott over there. You got a website, you need it fixed up, you need a new one, you're setting up a business, working on any kind of online project like that. Check out expanddesigns.com.

[A]

well, look, good thing. That's a bunch of crap that this guy was working for the Russians. And I think you might be referring to this statement here, at least in part. Epstein's executor, Nikolic. Nikolic to Epstein, quote, we should go to Russia soon and you should meet my friend, Isla Ponarev. I'm sorry, I don't have my reading glasses. The stakes are huge. He might replace Putin and become president himself sooner or later if he's not killed first. So that's very interesting.

[B]

Is there more to it than that? Yeah, but yeah, we need to dive into a couple of bits of who are these people? So that Boris Nikolic or his name is not only who's the executor for. For Epstein, he is. He's a Bill Gates advisor. He's a. He's a medical. He's a practitioner medical advisor for Bill Gates. He is all involved in the World Economic Forum of which yesterday the CEO of the World Economic Forum has just had a probe into him. So the CEO of the word. Sorry, the ce. Sorry, that's incorrect. The word Economic Forum CEO is involved. And then we have that Boris Nikolic in the World Economic Forum as well, working with Bill Gates for advanced immunology and tolerance induction. So it's not only that, it's not only the executor for Boris to Epstein, it's also deep ties to Gates. Okay. Ilya Ponomatov, by the emails, by what has happened, appears to be trying to work a coup. Well, people trying to get him to stage a coup and overthrow Putin. What we need to look at is, well, where is he now? Well, he is between both Poland and Ukraine and he's the head of the frl, which is the Freedom of Russia Legion. Now, there's two legions that ostensibly are made up of Russians being the rvc, the Russian Volunteer Corps and the frl, the Freedom of Russian Legion that we are told are independent units made up of Purely ethnic Russians who are then fighting back across the border in Belgorod or carrying out these operations. Now, we know very much so that this is to create distance and to create plausible deniability away from intelligence services and the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence. This makes complete sense, is if they carry out an attack that is absolutely outside of the laws. One conflict, like the, like the attack of which they claimed against Darina Dugan, Alexander Dugan's daughter, if something like that is carried out, it gives both Ukraine and Western partners a distance and APPLAUSE but deniability saying, we have nothing to do with any of that. But Ilya Ponomarev, who's, who's the head of this, he has no military background whatsoever and he's entirely dependent on all of then the other services behind the scenes. But of course, I'll be happy with him to take credit for this because it gives, as I said, that distance, that plausible deniability. So again, this is where it is all. There's so much of this. Once you start picking at a thread, you start really following that, that, that thread in this. And it is just, it's multinational, there's involvement everywhere, there's potential, you know, trying to meet up with Putin, there's meetings potentially with Zelensky, there's all of this. And it just. The demoralizing part of this is it's like this is a club that you and I aren't part of, Scott, but it's the club that you and I are paying taxes towards funding their sickening, sickening lifestyle.

[A]

Yeah, well, look, I mean, I think this is the, the very shining silver lining on this thing is it's such a great peek behind the curtain of who's in power here. And I told you that they're just scum. There's nothing special about these people. They're not any better informed or any wiser than us or any kind of thing like they would have taught us in school. They're actually a bunch of degenerate scum and they're not very intelligent and they're just well connected and the purpose of their power is maintaining their power at the expense of the rest of us, who they absolutely despise. And then so great. It's so funny to see that, like, they don't see the exact wholesale blackmail operation they were looking for. So maybe there's nothing to see here at all. And I'm like, yeah, no, I don't think so, man. This is what George Carlin said. There's a big club and you're not in it. But not only that, you wouldn't want to be in it because if you were in it, you would kill these people in defense of the innocent people that they're victimizing and end up getting in trouble yourself.

[B]

But let's not act like this isn't deliberately released in drips and drabs. So we can't put the whole connect. So we can't connect all of the dots. Like, like, let's not make out like this is all of the files. We know it's not all the files. That's very clear. But let's not make out like there's not pages and pages and pages of redactions. So in my opinion, I've spoken to an intelligence expert about this, that we are being shown what they want us to see, what satiates the hunger of people seeing the file. So, so it, you know, oh, yeah, we've done this. We look like we're being very open about this, but let's not act like this isn't purposefully released in drips and drabs, satiate that hunger, but that it won't ever give enough information to provide beyond reasonable doubt proof of these people being involved. So I think this is very tactically released in many ways also. It'll throw under the bus people of which they're willing to burn. But it will never give you. Oh, no, yeah, he visited. But this. But it will never give you beyond reasonable doubt always happened that we are being shown, in my opinion, what they want us to see. These run very deep, you know, and it involves the most powerful people. Yeah, it's, it is, it is sickening, sadly sad. The hard part about this is that nothing's going to happen. Nothing's going to happen. Nothing will happen unless this has an absolutely massive impact on economic markets. And I know the S and P is not doing great. I know that Bitcoin and the other cryptos aren't doing fantastic, but it's not a collapse yet. It's not all going to zero. But, and, and especially on the stock front, these very powerful people in business, that's when we'd really start seeing things happening. But it's just, I think it's been, it's, it's a pee behind the curtain, but it's a peer behind the curtain to what they want you to see behind there. And in my opinion, if we saw fully behind the curtain, all of it, but there would be people getting strung up from, from, from signposts like, you know, this is, it is a horrible Horrible thing that people are distancing themselves from or trying to like Gates. Bill Gates is in Australia at the moment meeting with the Prime Minister. Now, I don't know what your audience's opinion is of, oh, who's the young black lady that does the YouTube videos? She's really famous. It does a lot about Charlie Kirk and his wife. Oh, you know who I'm talking about. I've had a brain fart. Anyway, I don't really engage or watch her stuff, but I have a lot of people that say it's fantastic. I know that she wasn't allowed into Australia because she's a bit of a contrarian orator on YouTube, but Bill Gates is allowed into Australia. Like, are you serious? Like, this guy is all through these files allegedly trying to drug his wife without her knowing. Now, this guy was in charge of a lot of the drugs that got pumped into people's bodies as well. Like, what is he doing here? And my whole bit is, Scott Epstein was charged with horrific child essay. I will say to try and keep you video monetized here. Back in 2008, he was basically let off on a plea deal and there was plenty of other people come forward that nothing ever happened about. And those people that let him off are very, very high within then the current and previous administrations as well. If you engage with someone beyond that date, you are. Your moral ethic compass is broken. Like, imagine, Scott, if I was charged with something as horrible as that, you wouldn't be having me on the podcast. You wouldn't be saying. You wouldn't say, scott, oh, come into my home. You wouldn't say. If I sent out an email to you and said, hey, Scott, I've got this island with all these young girls and booze and drugs and I'm going to fly you out onto it. You wouldn't be coming to the. You'd be like, no fucking block. Like back 2000. Like, what are you doing? What is Elon doing?

[A]

There was. There was someone who was, you know, very close to, kind of adjacent to the libertarian movement, who no one ever accused him of hurting anyone or doing anything. He had made academic arguments about the age of consent, but ones that would make your skin crawl, right where his lowest number was way too low. And so he got completely kicked out of our movement. He's basically invisible right out of our movement. Like he never existed anymore. And I'm not going to bring his name up just to throw him further under the bus or whatever, but nobody even said that he had done anything to Anyone or that he was even necessarily interested in doing anything to anyone, but he was making an argument about what it might be okay to do to a child that made it where like 100 of our movement just said, get the hell out. And he's gone. And. And rightly so.

[B]

Yeah, of course. And like, what a. Like Elon Musk is trying to clean his hands with this. And I'm like, elon, you were begging to go to the island, talking about girls with a known pedo. Like, I'm not saying, Elon, you have. Then I'm not saying you've broken the law and should be thrown in jail, but you're a piece of mate. Like. Like that. That. That's it. You know, you. You are willing to put yourself in a scenario around young women. So he's already said that in the emails around booze, around drugs on an island. So out of the viewing eye with someone who is a known convicted head out at this time in 2008, forward. If you came out, if. If someone came out and said, hey, look, I had business dealings or this or that with Jeffrey Epstein in 2006 or anything pre 2008 because of these connections. And these are the emails, these are the text messages, these are the photographs. Fine. You know, like. Like, I'd be like, yeah, look, okay, you're being very open with this. Why are these people not open about this? If they are truly innocent, they would be releasing everything. If. If one of my friends was charged with something like this, and therefore people were trying to bring up some connection of my involvement, I would have zero problem releasing every single text message, meme, photo, video that we have together. It would be, this is everything. Why aren't they doing that? Why aren't they doing. To clear themselves? This is everything. Like, why is Bill Gates not dropping his own files? Why is Bill Gates not employing a whole team of people, which would cost him relatively nothing? It cost him the equivalent to your me of 50 cents. Why would he not hire a team of people? 10 people. Okay, go through all of my emails, everything with Epstein, file it, put it online, and this is everything. Therefore, this happened because you. If. If you are trying to cover things up, what it looks like by not releasing it, I can tell you right now because you think it may further incriminate yourself. And. And it's just sickening, man. It just. It's really impacted my life. It's impacted, I think, a lot of people's lives for a couple of reasons. Firstly, just how sickening this is that there is you know, the elite class and the rest of us, it is them and us. It's not left and right, it's them and us. But secondly, this idea that people aren't angry enough about this, like we burnt cities down for when a known career criminal was killed by a policeman. There's been no demonstrations against this. There's nothing happening. And I know that nothing will happen. People are not angry enough about this. Like, where do you think the money came from to fund what is happening here? It's from your taxes. If they work in finances, it's the money of which you have paid on top of your investments or your capital gains tax or your income tax. That is where all this is from. It's a completely just evil cabal that has happened. But sadly, sadly we know that just, we know this because nothing's going to happen. And if nothing does happen from this, well, we know that the, the very powerful people are all coming for each other.

[A]

Hey guys. You know I have another podcast now, right? Yeah, me and the great American historian Daryl Cooper. That is Martyr Maid. He's my co host and we host a show every Friday night. We might be switching to two days a week here sometime soon, but for right now we're doing Friday nights live at 8 o' clock Eastern Time on the YouTubes. Checked out our Twitter handle, Provoked show. Yeah, well, you know, it's funny, we did the show earlier today, Provoked with Daryl and Daryl Cooper and we had Sagar and Jetty as our special guest to go over this stuff. One of the things we're talking about at the end there is where it's the people who tell the truth that get in trouble while the bad guys circle the wagons. And then I forget the guy's name.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[A]

You'll know who I'm talking about though. Daryl brought up this freshman congressman who talked about how he was invited to these coke fueled sex parties by Republicans and they just kicked him right out of Washington. This is like two years ago. You remember who I'm talking about?

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

And he, Daryl's talking about how, you know, you could be a congressman and be guilty of anything except telling the truth about the other congressman. And this guy is, you know, was just absolutely exiled from Washington D.C. and kind of reminds me of, you know, John Kaku went to prison for telling the names of two CIA torturers while no CIA torturers ever went to jail for anything at all. And so you've seen, you know, you mentioned, you know, names being brought up in Eastern Europe. Well, the national security adviser of Slovakia had to resign and the British Lord Mandelson, Peter Mandelson had to resign. They got. Prince Andrew has been stripped of his titles and now kicked out of his cottage.

[B]

And they're, you know, he's been moved into another. But he's been moved into another area, Prince Andrew, that's paid for by, by the Commonwealth taxpayer. Like. But this is the thing is, I don't care.

[A]

There's nothing going on like that here. I was going to make the United States where there seems to be at least some real reaction over there, maybe like, I would say like an adult reaction there compared to a childish one here, you know.

[B]

No, no, but both are not an adult reaction. The only, like, the most reasonable thing for this would be if they are guilty of, of what is some alleged. Is that they are swinging in the gallows like, like that. Is it like you're saying with, with the ally, if the allegations against Prince Andrew are true, you're not getting kicked out of the cottage. Like, like, oh, no, he's out of his bigger cottage into a smaller one that all of us are paying for. No, like he should be in a cell for the remainder of his miserable piece of shit life. Like, this is the thing. And it's like, oh, he's resigned. This is this idea that is, I guess, almost like Western white, that, oh, if he resigns, therefore he's innocent. It's like, no, like, this is fucking ridiculous. It's, it's. We had this with a, with a large company in Australia. I won't say the company's name because they are known to come after people, that they ruined people's lives during the virus. They ruined people's lives. They operated well outside of the employment laws of Australia. All it came to was the CEO resigned and they paid a fine. That is not justice. You ruined people's lives due to your actions of your company. People's families fell apart. People then took their own lives. All of this happened and, oh, he resigned. So it's fine. No, this is the same thing happening in Ukraine with all this corruption stuff that's come out over the past couple of months with hundreds of millions of dollars potentially embezzled. The corruption agencies going into politicians and business partners, Alenski's house and they've got a golden toilet. Like, oh, they've resigned. That is not that. That is not the end of this. Like, what do you mean? Because there's. If you've told $100 million, well, it's a hundred million dollars that didn't go to the guys in the front line freezing their ass off and dying every day and they're out of ammunition. It's $100 million that didn't go to the Ukrainian energy facilities. And people are freezing in their homes. And there's been people freeze to death in their homes. These people are guilty of the outcome of what they have stolen the money from. It was like that prick that stole $40 million worth of mortar shells. Well, he wrote off on the books of $40 million worth of mortar shells. As a Ukrainian politician, I don't know how much a mortar shell is, but let's say that is a couple of hundred thousand mortar shells that didn't end up at the front line. I would charge that bloke with murder. I would charge him with murder because there were Ukrainian soldiers who bravely fought and died because they didn't have ammunition for that, that gun tube at the time. And this is all of this ridiculousness that it just appears that, oh yeah, they just sort of give up a little bit and they're often. They're innocent. And I'm just so sick of that being. Being an excuse. Look at Timor Mindich at the moment that he is part of an embezzling ring in Ukraine. One of Zelensky's closest business partners before the war and close advisors during the war. He got tipped off the night before, this is all well published. Tipped off the night before a raid on his property. Around $100 million of embezzlement and he fled to Israel. And now he's walking around Tel Aviv. There's video of him walking around, nothing's happening. And I'm like, hang on, this prick has stolen $100 million from the civilian population out of what could be funding, energy or resource or food off the people at the front line who are fighting to try and save their nation. And also, where do you think that hundred million dollars in Ukraine currently comes from? The Ukrainian economy is really in the toilet due to the war. So if there's $100 million embezzled, he has stolen that from Americans, Europeans, Australians, etc. So not only has he stolen it from the Ukrainian soldiers and the Ukrainian people, he's also stolen it from you and I and he's fled to what is supposedly our greatest ally and nothing is happening. Like it's all of this that is just this absolute bullshit that no one with any power is ever held to account. No one is. It's, you know, there is an unbelievable situation and it's it's, it will, it will end in a revolution at some point people will be sick of it and go, nah, we're dragging you out of your homes.

[A]

Yeah. I mean just as this is happening, there's one of the health ministers, I forgot his exact title, but Dr. Oz, who lost for Senate, the former TV star doctor is working in Health and Human services somewhere. And he gave a talk, he said, you know what we're going to have to do to pay down the national debt is we're just going to have to move retirement age until later. Americans are just going to have to work harder and longer like we're just slaves, like we just exist to serve Israel and England and Ukraine and the war party. America is just a big ranch where Israel grows their cannon fodder, their tax fodder. But the purpose of the regime here is not our lives and liberty at all. And as one guy immediately responded on my, my quote tweeted that today he said only somebody who's never really had a job in his life could talk that way. Some guy sits in an air conditioned office, sometimes he has to go to a lunch or a dinner and meet people, maybe give a speech and then he goes, yeah, you should have to work until you're 70. Yeah, well that's because you don't work in a warehouse lifting heavy things in no air conditioning. That's because you're not a welder or a, whatever. Anyone who works hard doing construction or anything at all talk about you ought to work till you're 70 years old to pay the national debt for Israel's wars. Like man, yeah, you say there's going to be a revolution, maybe, you know, I don't know.

[B]

Well that's that little weasel Ben Shapiro. There's a clip of him and I will paraphrase him. I think it, I think it's silly that anyone's retiring, they shouldn't be retiring at this age. Blah blah blah. You're like, okay brother, he's never worked a day in his life. Send me a photo of your, please send me a photo of your palms and see the calluses that have built up on that. Send me an MRI of your knees and then I'll walk across the road where there's a bunch of young guys doing roofing at the moment in 40 degree which is 110 degrees Fahrenheit weather here in Australia. And I'll tell you why people need to retire at 60 years old, Ben, like you were sitting in an air conditioned office complaining about this. You're funded through all these different back channels. Please, please sue me because I'd love, I'd love a discovery. Please, please sue me so you can discover my finances because you'll just be sad and buy them. But I want to have a discovery on your finances because I think that would be very, very interesting. And this idea of oh, they don't need to retire, go tell that, go tell that to some of the old blokes working across here on the construction side who are 60 years old who have worked their whole life and they're in back braces carrying wheelbarrows and tiles onto a, onto a roof. Are you serious? All of this to pay for things that has zero impact other than negative, zero positive impact on then the average society. While Americans, and I know you and I might see these vastly different. But while Americans do not have freedom to hurt themselves and this is where the freedoms in America are skewed into the own narratives of we give you freedom because Americans may have freedom of speech which is absolutely being limited. Freedom to bear arms which is absolutely being limited. Let's not act as if those are absolute, act like they're absolutes. Because you can't have many different types of weapons. You can't have different types of butt stocks on your weapons. You can't have this. So let's not say that's absolute freedom. Same with the speech. Let's not say you can say anything you want without someone knocking on your door, but you don't have the freedom to injure yourself. And this is where we need to re engage what freedoms actually are. Because if you walk down the road and you trip over and you break your elbow like I did last, last year here, there's no concern about that. Oh, I need to get this fixed, I may have a loss of income, etc. It's not great. But there's many Americans who due to how the system is and the amount of debt in it, they may be in a lifetime of debt from something that was merely just a silly mistake.

[A]

Well, that doesn't have anything.

[B]

Yeah, well, but yes, but I think it is a freedom for the way that you live every day. I actually put that as, as a freedom I think that we have created in different western states and Australia is worse than the worst than you guys. So trust me, because we don't have freedom of any of it. But we've created these pseudo environments of which within that we tell ourselves that, you know, we can do whatever we want where really we don't and it's it's, it's puppet masters doing this and it's, it's a disgrace if you took a small percentage of the money spent on these useless, hopeless wars that have occurred with the outcome being complete failure. Remember that we spent trillions of dollars to just re put the Taliban into power. That Americans absolutely could have far better institutional outcomes in the education system or in the medical system or in any other, or retirement or any of these. But we're obsessed with creating a kleptocratic class in America. That is what I see now. I know people say, oh, you're very anti American. No, I'm not. I'm very pro America. I want America to prosper, to be the most prosperous country on earth, as it may have been a few decades ago. What I don't want to see is when people say Russia is a gas station with nukes. I don't want America to be a third world country wrapped in a Gucci belt of which you've got the majority of people, their life, their way, their life and their every everything from the freedoms that they enjoy to the food they eat to where they live, reducing while the kleptocratic oligarch class that has been developed in America gets super, super rich. That's what I don't want to see. I don't want to see this massive disparity that America is developing further because what does that do? Well, it weakens the actual power of the state of which carries forward the remainder of the West. And yet it may feel like Australia is one of those little fish that, you know, grip onto the side of a shark and swim along. But I want to see America and Americans. I want to see outcomes improve, same as I want to see it improve in Australia. But I'm just seeing there's not any decisions that are actually being really made to do that. No, it seems like no one's really prepared to do that. And it starts with transparency.

[A]

Hey, guys, Scott here. You know, you've probably noticed when I'm interviewing somebody or somebody's interviewing me, I've got this great bust of Dr. Ron Paul in the background on my bookshelf here. Well, you can get one like that too. They're available again from the great artist Rick Casali. Just go to my website scothorton.org and look in the right hand margin. Click the link through there and use promo code Horton. You'll save 25 bucks and get free shipping at least in the lower 48 states. And he does custom work as well. Well, look, this is always the frustration of libertarians everywhere is the root of the problem is we have a fraudulent monetary system. And that's not going to change until I have magic Jedi powers and can murder whoever I want and use magic to create a new system exactly the way I want it to be, which would be 100% gold standard. And any government official who tries to license a bank to print money out of nothing gets the chair. And that's how we move forward. But that a never ever, ever, ever going to happen because regular people are just never going to understand. No one's going to tell them and they don't really want to know. It's all too complicated to understand our monetary system. But you look at the causes of all of the social crisis that we have. It's the cost of living, man. And it's because, and I, I guess it was Curtis Yarvin who, I don't pay that much attention to him, but I do like that he coined the phrase that the COVID germ was essentially the American Chernobyl. That was an American manufactured germ even in a Chinese lab. And, and, and it killed millions of people and it destroyed this country. And it gave them in the excuse, especially the, the Democratic governors, the excuse to lock the country down as a sort of part of a attempted color coded type coup against Trump in 2020 to make life as miserable as possible. They forced the worst depression you could imagine, enforcing everyone to stay home for months and months, really a year until the vaccine was ready.

[B]

And trust me, trust me, you guys looked free compared to, and then they

[A]

created like one third of all the dollars that have ever been created, just money currency in order to make up for all the wealth that they had destroyed and in order to make the very wealthiest people whole. And then, but the way that that plays out for everybody else, it's called the Cantillon Effects. The people get the money first, get it when it's still valuable, everybody else gets it. Where now, you know, a hamburger, you know, just a quarter pound of hamburger meat or something is $10. Where is out, out of range regular people to be able to afford basics. Rent goes through the roof, all kinds of energy bills and everything go through the roof. And luckily we got a break on gasoline now, but only relatively speaking. But still, I mean that's what it is. The, the prices at the grocery store, I saw a chart earlier today. Prices at the grocery store for meat, for milk, for eggs, for vegetables, for everything is up by, you know, between 20 and 50% over.

[B]

But then what does that do? Because that is then the flow on effect destroys people's lives.

[A]

That's what it does.

[B]

Not only does it do that though, but is because milk, eggs, meat, vegetables are more expensive. Therefore people who are struggling, they go and buy this refined bullshit because it's more to have and meat and vegetables is too expensive. So I buy this ultra refined whatever is bloody chemicals in it in America. So therefore, because these people are having to do it, they're not doing it on purpose, they're doing it because they have to do it financially. Therefore their kids are getting fed garbage. What is really impacting development of their bodies, their brains, their organs, their whatever. It's impacting people's cognitive ability later into life that impacts the ability to earn money, the ability to understand these systems. And basically the newer generation is illiterate like. And there's. All of this is connected and therefore what does it further do? We've spoken about food health outcomes. Therefore in a system of which has a very private health scheme, it then has people with worth worse health outcomes, making them more reliable, more reliant on the debt they need to pay because of their health will have, will have worse outcomes. And it's keeping people, it's not enslaved, it's keeping people as a. It's a serfdom that is developing that you're a serf to the nation and, and the. It's under the guise of freedom that you've now become a. Become a serf. And, and it's all of this that is all wrapped up and it's just. I don't know where it's leading. And you know, and this is something maybe you're interested in speaking about. I spent a week and a little bit last week in China and it scared the shit out of me. I've spent in the past three years about seven or eight months in the U.S. i've spent the equivalent time maybe a bit longer in Europe and I went to China thinking of, yeah, look, this is all a facade, you know, this is a developing nation, you know, there it's. It is, it's not. It has no degree of dissent. It is tyrannical, it is totalitarian. It is authoritarian now. Absolutely. It is authoritarian. There is, there is certain things that you may see as totality. But we're in big trouble over here, man. Where have you ever been to China, Scott? No, we are in big, big, big trouble. I went to cities which are not even considered, you've never even heard of them. For those interested, I went to Fuzhou Xiaomin and Chongju. These are cities which no one's even ever bloody heard of. This is not Shanghai, it's not Chongqing, it's not Beijing, it's not these behemoths. We're in big trouble, mate. The young people, all studying, and a lot of them are highly educated that I met, there's a large nationalism towards the government. These same young people and some of the people that I met who are a bit older, but I met with most of the young people, they will happily openly criticize the party, which absolutely shocked me to the degree that I was asking. I know we've had a couple of drinks here, like, are you okay to discuss this? Is like something going to be filmed or recorded and the. Or the MSS jump out of a bush and arrest us. And they laugh in my face about like, mate, you watch too much propaganda. It's clean, it's safe. There's no homeless on the street. There's none. I asked some of my friends there, how do I know Westerners there? Well, because they tried to get funding for their research, for their PhD for research, for scientific research. This is how I know people live in China. They couldn't get funding from the American universities or the European universities. So what they did was they went to China because they'll fund the research for their PhDs in things like science and materials and all of this. That's why they're there. And they say, oh, look, there's certain things you need to get used to. Our salaries aren't great, but the scientific funding is brilliant. That's how I know Westerners, expats who live there and teach there. And it opened my eyes. And I've asked them a lot of stuff because they've lived in the West. And what about this? What about that? And it blew me away. Firstly, how open people are to speak directly about the party, to criticize the party, to criticize parts of the system, to criticize people losing income with their housing, to even say, I spoke with a young Chinese marine and he openly said and said, oh, you can absolutely say this online. And you know, he can't put it back to my name because I'm still in the services. But you can say you spoke to a marine. Oh, a lot of us don't like Xi Jinping. A lot of us don't like him because of XXXY and but others love him due to. If they live in Shanghai, they've become very wealthy. But if you live out here, you haven't. And I'm thinking Like you will, you're able to say this. Oz told my idea was you're not able to say this. And I get in a bullet train that cost me six Australian dollars, so let's say four American dollars that took me over an hour at 310 kilometers per hour, which is roughly 200 miles an hour, $6 or 4 USD for an hour to the next city. And that infrastructure has been built and it's clean, it's safe, it's respectful. Now, there's plenty of things we can judge and nitpick in here about the ability to vote in a democratic system, all of this. You can talk about freedoms of speech, you can talk about this. But I tell you what I saw was a nation who appears to be working together. And as per that, Marine said to me, and I've done a video specifically on that interview with that Marine, he said there's extra motivation because it appears as if we can knock America off, number one. And I would say to anyone, go to go to China and just have a look if you've got this idea built up as I did. I've been a critic, I've been publicly very critical of Xi, the regime, the party, the state. Go there and go there and have a look and have a look for yourself. Travel around a little bit, see it and you'll go, I may not want to live here, but this is a huge threat to, to the, to the, the poles of power and where they sit at the moment. And the government is trying to put a lid on nationalism. That is literally one of the things the government's trying to do is China is ripe for ultra nationalism and they're actually trying to put a lid on that because of how that may rise its head in overthrowing of governments or a further aggression around the world, etc. Or I can tell you we don't have that problem of people trying to be, you know, the state's going too. Well, it concerned me, man, it concerned me as a Westerner going, firstly, my head was filled with a lot of propaganda about what this is. And secondly, like these are just you and I just in a different system.

[A]

One of my videos, when they invade and conquer Australia, you come stay with us.

[B]

Well, one of my videos which was restricted on YouTube, which was the interview with the Marine was very critical of China. People called it Western propaganda was restricted on YouTube and went viral on Bilibili, which is their version of YouTube. Someone reshared or downloaded and shared it and it went viral on their platform. That was very critical. People Go watch the videos. The Chinese Marine interview with myself, it went viral on their platform and was restricted on our platform and was very. Was very critical of the powers that be. And I thought that was a very, very funny peek behind the curtain as well. So. Man, it's. It's crazy. It's. It is concerning. Yeah.

[A]

The censorship in America is one of the worst crises we face right now or in the entire west for sure.

[B]

But you're saying that this is the thing. And I'm not. I'm not. I'm not having to have a go at you, Scott, at all. You know, I love you, but when Americans talk about, like, all the censorship here, I, as an Australian, I always laugh, going, well, you guys don't know what it's like. Like.

[A]

Oh, yeah, no, you guys.

[B]

No, I know, like, like our laws. Our law is literally completely subjective. If someone finds offense to something and that. And there's a ridiculous part of that is, well, that subjectivity, you can find harm in any of that, you say. Because. Yeah, well, that's the thing. That's the thing though, Scott, is if. If you inter. If you take the law as how someone feels as fear, that is, that absolutely will be abused and has been being abused. You could say, oh, Willy, because you read Henry Kissinger and he was responsible for what happened here, therefore you should go to prison on extremism. But at the same time, you could say, well, well, that flag you fly has. You know, I believe it's this. So therefore you should go to jail. And our law has become subjective to the government of the day and the people of the day. And that leads us nowhere but tyranny.

[A]

Yeah, man. All right, listen, we're gonna have to catch up about the war in Ukraine later because I gotta eat some dinner. I'm gonna fall over here. But thank you for doing my show again. It's been great to talk to you.

[B]

Mate, Mate, thanks. Thanks for having me on. And I hope. I hope you're well. I hope the family's well. And I hope professionally and personally everything's. Everything's going as well as can be.

[A]

Absolutely. Thank you, man, so much, everybody. Please check out Matt Williams. He is Willy O A m on the YouTube. You'll love it, trust me.

[C]

The Scott Horton show is brought to you by the Scott Horton Academy of Foreign Policy and Freedom. Robertson Roberts Brokerage, Inc. Mundo's Artisan Coffee, Tom Woods, Liberty Classroom and APS Radio News. Subscribe in all the usual places and check out my books. Fool's Errand.

[A]

Enough already.

[C]

And my latest Provoked How Washington State Started the New Cold War With Russia and the Catastrophe in Ukraine. Find all of the [e-mail] and I'm serializing the audiobook of Provoked at scothortonshow.com and patreon.com Scott HortonShow Bumpers by Josh Langford Music Intron Outro videos by Dissident Media Audio mastering by Podsworth Media.

[A]

See y' all next time.

[D]

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