← Scottish Watches
Scottish Watches
Scottish Watches Podcast #750 : Audemars Piguet Drop Their 2026 Collection Plus New Vacheron and More
00:54:12
The conversation opens with major releases from the Holy Trinity, led by Audemars Piguet’s new 38mm Royal Oak Chronographs, finally receiving a fully in-house integrated calibre, followed by a discussion...
Loading summary
Transcript86 lines
- [00:01]
Ricky
Welcome to the Scottish Watches podcast. It's been an exciting week in the wonderful world of watches as the industry is bringing its A game with new releases from Audemars Piguet, Vacheron and a ton of pre watches and wonders delights. So strap in and get ready for a special show. Well, let's start off with one of the holy trinity that is Audemars Piguet. We thought they were going to be quiet because they're back at watches and won doors in literally a month and a half's time. They're going to be bringing their A game as we mentioned, but they've already released probably all the novelties that you expect in 2026. But let's throw over to Dave, who looks like he's in prison cell. Dave, where the hell are you?
- [00:34]
Dave
To be fair, it's the part of my hotel room that is a bit like a prison cell. This is actually a window, but I've shut it because the sun's kind of shining in and it was making all things go mad. But no, not in a prison cell, in a hotel room which could have, could be a prison cell. But Anyway, yes, well, AP, they brought out pretty nice watch, 38 millimeters. The big news is that the watch is not new new. But what is new about it is finally the 38 millimeter Royal Oak chronograph gets a proper new in house calibre. As we know, the 38mm was introduced back in around 2019, round about that neck of the woods as well. And it's always had a very thin chronograph movement and it was a Frederic PK 1185, if I'm getting that right, which was branded as AP's calibre 2385. That's the calibre they've been using. I think that calibre was invented back in 1988, so it's by far not a new calibre. And Audemars Piguet have been using it since around 1997, give or take as well. But back in 2022, the 41 millimeter version of the Royal Oak that got its in house calibre, the 4401, which was a fully integrated flyback chronograph. They'll now get this all new 6401 calibre. It's smaller, it foregoes the flyback functionality though, but it is fully integrated architecture. It's got a vertical clutch, it's got a column wheel, it's got an instantaneous jumping date at midnight. It's got 55 hours of power reserve. So they've kind of upped their game and they've gone full in house movement for all of these chronographs now as well. They've brought out three models.
- [02:01]
Ricky
Any from Victoria's Secrets?
- [02:03]
Dave
No. It's got the classic blue grand tapestry dial on it and there are two pink gold versions, one with a gray dial with silver sub dials, one with a kind of sandy coloured dial with beige sub dials and a diamond set bezel on it as well. The date window is still at, well they say between four and five o' clock and as we all know, I call it four and a half o' clock dates. Price wise? Well, it's AP. Nothing's ever going to be cheap for an AP. The steel variant is around US$43,000. The pink gold Vers it ranges between 85,000 and 92,000. Very much depending on whether you get the one with the diamond bezels or not. Steel one 38mm nice blue classic AP tapestry dial. I think it's a great looking watch. I think it will be very wearable as well. Not sure I'd want to pay that kind of money for this watch. I think there's lots of cool watches out there that do something very similar for a lot less money. Ricky, your boat. Not floating. Your boat. No idea where you'll be on this one.
- [02:56]
Ricky
I like them, they're okay, nothing wrong with them. There is a change here so we needed to talk about it and there is an absolute plethora of different releases from AP over the last few days. So you'll want to check the show notes. Go in there, have a look at what we're talking about here because Mizziel will link up all the individual pieces and we're not just talking about in the Royal Oak series, we're talking in the offshore diver. We're talking 1159 and we're going to briefly touch upon something that looks like it should have come out last year.
- [03:21]
Dave
So yes indeed, they've also brought out a jumping hour watch which, well, I thought that was the thing of 2025, not 2026. And well, it looks very much like a watch that we saw from a brand that we talked about that was over in Dubai. Just saying. I'll leave it to you to decide if I'm right or wrong in that. Check out the show notes to see the pictures of it. This is by far and away not my favourite Audemars piguet by any stretch of the imagination. But there's nicer jump hours out there. Anyway, they brought one out. 2026. Have they missed the boat? Or is 2026 also going to be another year of jumping hour watches?
- [03:51]
Ricky
In my short time in the watch industry, being a consumer and then moving into obviously media space, it was blue dials, integrated steel sports watches with blue dials. Then green was a bit of a flavor, then salmon dials, and now it seems to be jumpers. That's what's crazy. So I wonder what will be the big standout ticket item for 2026, because it can't just continue like it was last year. We'll have to see what comes out in watches and wonders. But let's move on to the second member of the holy Trinity. That's Vacheron Constantin. Last year was huge for them. 270 years anniversary. The longest continuously producing watchmaker on the planet. Lots have been revitalised, lots have come back from the dead. Those guys continuously for hundreds of years, nearly 300. And last year was huge. They had huge complications all packed into one timepiece. This time around, they've got something that's a little bit easier on the pocket and a little bit lighter on the wrist.
- [04:40]
Dave
Well, you say easier on the pocket, certainly easier than the watch that you were describing, because easy on the pocket would be nothing ever to describe that watch. But yes. What have they got out now? Well, they brought out a new variant of the Overseas in titanium. Already. Two words that I like when it comes to vacheron. The Overseas is one of my favorite models and I do like it when they do a titanium version. This is the Titanium Overseas Tourbillon and this has a deep red dial on it. I think my favorite ever Overseas was the Titanium Everest edition. That was such a cool watch. But they've done very thin perpetual calendars. They've done tourbillon models all within the Overseas family. So in this one, titanium, it's used for the case, it's used for the integrated bracelet. It's all grade 5 titanium, as you would probably expect. It's 42.5 mm in diameter, it's around about 10.5 millimeters thickness. And it's got this really deep red toned dial. It's got a few different finishing features on there as well. You've got a sunburst dial on it, but then you've got this velvet style finishing around the flange of the dial.
- [05:38]
Ricky
Did you just say flange?
- [05:40]
Dave
I said flange, yes. Oh, okay. 18 carat white gold hour markers. It's Got the blue Super Luminova on there and of course the tourbillon at 6 o'. Clock. It's their automatic calibre, it's a 2160. It's got a peripheral oscillating weight which again opens it up so that when you're looking through that case back you can well see more of the calibre. 80 hours of power reserve, very respectable I have to say. It's got token water resistance. 50 meters means you can wash your hands, you could get a few splashes and not be too worried about it. And of course that model has its interchangeable strap system that makes it very versatile. In the case of this one, you've got the titanium bracelet, but you get two rubber straps, you get a red one and a white one in the package as well. Now they're not actually giving out a price, it's quote price on request, which is always code for this is going to be expensive. But similar models with similar spec have been in and around the 100 to 120,000. So Ricky, affordable? Yes. Compared to the watch that you mentioned, Affordable? Maybe not for most people. Really cool looking watch, I have to say. That said, within the overseas family, the plainer ones, the regular time only ones that are still relatively expensive but much more attainable than this is likely to be are my favorites. The red dial though, really good red dial. Not enough red dials out there. Do you agree?
- [06:55]
Ricky
I don't agree it's red. I think it's more purple, pink, cherry red. We'll call it cherry red. Maybe if you think back to the Oris collection couple of years ago, it's that kind of style, maybe slightly more muted in a pastel shade. Chances are picture of it will appear in the show notes and in the thumbnail for this. So if you've listened to this, if you've seen the thumbnail on YouTube, I like it a lot. I do like it a lot. Even the size of the hole in the middle of the dial. It's large, it's very, very large. But the Tourbillon has got lots of Vacheron styling around it. It looks like their logo emblazoned there. And you look in the back, the backside is almost as pretty, if not more pretty than the front. The way they've decorated the movement, the cutouts, the bridges, all the onglage, the finishing techniques they've used, it's just great front, back, up and down. And the bracelet on it, you mentioned, it's quick release, it's their interchangeable system. It is one of the best. It looks great, it draws the eye into the center. It's very three dimensional the way it's all put together. So it's a definite win. As you mentioned, the price point. Well, I mean look at some of the other guys out there that are doing this style of watch that is not crazy money and we talk about all kinds of watches. Somebody actually commented recently and said I can't believe your show covers watches from $25 to half a million dollars and sometimes even beyond that. But we do try and cater for everybody. And somebody buys a G shock or a flick flag today, well, who knows what they might be doing. They might come up trumps if their bitcoins come in because bitcoin hasn't been doing so good just now. Neither is gold this week, but the guys that get in the low will obviously sell high and then they can buy themselves a global forzy. But what should we talk about next?
- [08:28]
Dave
Okay, let's do something on the show that we've not done for quite a while and we keep saying we're going to do it, but we've had some communications with people who listen to the podcast and of course there are now more and more of you watching the podcast on YouTube. But we've got some communications and maybe we should read some of those out. What do you think Ricky?
- [08:44]
Ricky
Let's do that. I'll start off then. Hi folks, I'm a long time listener and wanted to say how much I appreciate the podcast. It's one of the few watch shows I consistently come back to for its honest, nuanced takes. I wanted to share a few thoughts in the latest episode, which I really enjoyed. On the point that not all special editions are gimmicks but most are, I completely agree the limited edition label often feels like marketing, especially when missing a grand Seiko Limited edition usually means another one will follow soon. That said, I do think some limited editions earn their place collaborations or thoughtful executions such as a certain Seiko anime collaboration add real character. I think the discussion around design originality versus brand type also resonated with me. Many Swiss brands seem overly reliant on reputation rather than strong design. At the same time, some brand cues should not be dismissed. Elements like Omega's helium escape valve may divide opinion, but they are part of the brand's heritage. Also agreed with the cautionary micro brands as many look great in photos but feel less refined in person. Overall, it was a great episode and I'm already looking forward to the next one. Kind regards from anur yeah.
- [09:45]
Dave
And you know what? I kind of broadly very much agree with what he's got to say there. I think, you know, limited editions, collaborative limited editions have been overdone in general. And to be fair, it's not just in watches. There are many areas in life where they think sticking a badge of something else on it adds value. It can add value if it's done well, if it's sympathetic, if there's some flavour or feel of a tie in that feels natural and not forced. Yeah, it can work as well. But sadly, I think they all get spoiled a little bit by the fact that too many people do it well for the sake of doing it. And it's fair to say there's a few brands that. Well, it's their whole identity. Some brands have stepped away from it. I will give Omega their due. I think it's fair to say they were pushing a lot of limited editions, special edition collaborative watches. They are still there, of course. Things like the Olympic watch we talked about a couple of episodes ago and things like that, that has some synergy. They have been a long term timing partner, but there's a lot less than there used to be. So, yes, I'm on board with what he has to say. Do you agree as well, Ricky?
- [10:49]
Ricky
Pretty much, yeah. There is nuance as he mentions to this, that and the other. Some of the collabs I've loved in recent memory are the spinnaker ones because they're inexpensive. They don't milk the fact they've got Popeye on the dial, they've got Snoopy, they've got. The latest ones have just arrived for us to check out. There's an Atari 2600 console version. There is one. Oh my God, there's so many. They do so much cool stuff that we will talk about them in the future. And that's at the low price point. We're talking 200, 300, $400. But then you've got collabs like Urwerk and Ulysse Nardan, which was one of the standouts of last year. And I've said it before, fusing the best of two brands, two technologies, putting them together. And you might think it was going to be terrible, like putting beer in a birthday cake. But no, it was phenomenal. Absolutely loved it. One of my top watches, top, potentially top one watches of last year. Great collaboration, great limited edition and hopefully that continues because I think the audience, the people that consume watch content and buy the watches, put them on wrist people like yourself, you know, when someone is Bullshitting you. You know, when it's hype, you know, when it's marketing, you know, when they've been stringing it out. And during COVID during the lockdowns, brands were shitting this, that and the other out. Some were doing a genuinely good job. Others were literally ticking boxes and putting out the door. I remember when we were producing our Christopher Ward Highlander watch, the amount of back and forward that we put in to create that watch, even the joke was I got in touch with Roger Smith to ask for some advice, just to say that he had a hand in creating it. So there was a lot of storytelling, a lot of gimmicks, a lot of fun, a lot of Easter eggs in that watch. Some people are just finding out about what Easter eggs are because we never publicized them. That's a good collaboration. And the price wasn't loaded, I think because we limited it to 69 pieces. It was an extra 100 bucks or something like that just to cover the low volume. Because you get quantities of scale. If you're buying 1,000, 10,000, the price diminishes. If you're only doing a limited run, the price can go up a little bit. So that's my take on it. Where are we going next?
- [12:44]
Dave
Well, Moser, they've got another watch out. And I like a few of the watches we've talked about today already. It's another tourbillon. So this is the Moser Endeavour Tourbillon skeleton. Let's start with the price. It's 79,000 Swiss francs before tax. So again, at the upper end of some of the watches that we normally talk about.
- [13:00]
Ricky
But so half the price of the Vacheron.
- [13:03]
Dave
Half the price of the Vacheron, but at the upper end of the price of watches we generally talk about. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is Mozart are very good at bringing out high horology watches and not really milking the price hard.
- [13:16]
Ricky
Nobody likes getting milked hard.
- [13:17]
Dave
Well, I'm sure some people do. Depends.
- [13:20]
Ricky
You know, I'm a big fierty. Dave, I don't know about yourself. I think you're a bit numb.
- [13:23]
Dave
Well, you go numb. Okay. I mean.
- [13:26]
Ricky
No, I said you're a bit numb. You're also deaf.
- [13:28]
Dave
What? Okay, so yes, this watch is based on the Endeavour, one of their, I would say, more conservative classical styled cases within the Moza range. It's a 5N red gold case that already goes some way to explain the 79,000 Swiss franc price tag. Because although gold's taken a little dip over the last week it's still monstrously expensive. Size wise it's a 40 millimeter by 10.7 millimeters in thickness. It's using their HMC814 movement that is a very heavily skeletonised version of the 805 which of course is their automatic tourbillon. It's a 60 second or one minute flying tourbillon so you've got that kind of second seconds indication on the tourbillon cage there. It comes mounted on a dark brown alligator strap. Frankly I think it's a great looking watch. For me I'm more into the more avant garde side of what Moser do. This is much more traditional in many respects but as we know lots of people like something that is not standoutish, not ostentatious and it's much more wearable every day. I love the colour of the gold in this one. It's not going to go down as my all time favourite watch from Moser but at the same time it's a very nice watch.
- [14:34]
Ricky
So I was looking at this and I thought to myself this looks a little bit like a watch I own but not in rose gold. And maybe the one I've got has got this kind of grid lattice structure. Maybe it's got some blue on the back and the wheels sitting kind of the same place. You wouldn't have to know any about that, would you?
- [14:51]
Dave
I mean I do but you're putting me in an awkward position, mister.
- [14:56]
Ricky
But you like being put in an awkward position, don't you? The back of a Volkswagen?
- [15:01]
Dave
Depends what. Volkswagen?
- [15:02]
Ricky
That's a Mallrats joke by the way that I butchered. But it's fine, it's okay Butcher.
- [15:06]
Dave
It depends on who is in said vehicle. But anyway, back to the watch. Yes, you have got a lovely tourbillon watch as well. Wonder who makes that. Do we know anyone that works for them?
- [15:15]
Ricky
Couldn't possibly say. No divulging this time because we're not going to talk about any Raj watches but we're going to ask you a favour watching on YouTube if you like what you see, if you like what you hear and we're a little bit tired today, Dave's in the hotel room. I've been doing an all nighter getting stuff done for watches and wonders. But if you do like what you're watching just now and what you're hearing and the watches and all the rest of it, leave us a comment and also like and subscribe because it really does help us out and we appreciate everybody that drops us a message. We try and comment on as many as possible. We try and get back to as many people as possible, even when they are disrespectful to Dave, what was it they said the last time you were wearing lipstick?
- [15:47]
Dave
I think somebody put a comment and said, is Dave wearing lipstick? And actually to be fair, I will absolutely take that one because I wasn't wearing lipstick per se, but I was using a lip chapstick because my lips had all dried out from too much travel and too much air conditioning. So he wasn't wrong. There was a glossy glint to my lips. Hopefully it made everyone think that I was looking very attractive. Probably not to be said that though.
- [16:12]
Ricky
I didn't make any jokes whatsoever there because I just leave it up to your dirty mind watching and listening at home. But next I'm going to chat about some good news. We talk about tariff chat and taxes and things of that ilk. It's generally just to give everybody an update so they know what's happening in industry which can dictate how the prices change and move around. But there's actually some good news this time.
- [16:32]
Dave
Well, there is looking at, well, Swiss watch exports, they have generally not been in the positive numbers over the last few months, especially when it comes to the US because of this fluctuation when it comes to the tariffs. But back in December they saw a bit of an up. So there was, I think a near 20% jump upwards in terms of exports of Swiss watches into the United States in that last month of 2025. That said it wasn't enough to to take away all the negatives. The overall exports for the year were down about just under 2% in value and just under 5% in volume for 2025. But that rollback of the tariffs from the 39% to the 15% has helped things for sure. And lots of the retailers got some significant shipments of product into them at the last part of the year. Overall, the Swiss watch exports did fall slightly by about 1.7% in value over 2025 to around 24.4 billion, which was compared to the year before as well. Volumes wise again dropped about 5% to I think it's 14.6 million watches. So still lots of watches, still a lot of money floating about in the Swiss watch industry. But the numbers definitely notably down on where they'd been for the previous couple of years. We'll see how that pans out. Lots of, well, challenging things happening in lots of different parts of the world which are of course having an effect on that Watches are not immune to the fluctuations of global politics and happenings around the world. But good to see that at least the settling down of the tariffs with regards to the USA has meant the numbers have gone back up. So we'll see what the early part of 2026 looks like.
- [18:09]
Ricky
And speaking of the USA and speaking of Christopher Ward, which we just did a minute ago, they have got a cool collaborative piece yet, a collaborative limited edition and this time around Christopher Ward are producing a watch in association with Pan Am. Didn't know they still existed, but we'll put that to the side for the second. This isn't the first time that Pan Am have co branded a watch in recent memory. There's quite a number of different brands that have been involved in this and I think it may be the case that Pan Am or whoever owns the licensing and the trademarks for this have kept their mouth shut when they've approached different watch brands. And things have been on the cards for a number of months, if not years. And then all at once, just like buses three come along at the same time because we had a D1 Milano, I'm sure there was another one and then we've got this guy. But looking at them all, this is actually my favorite. And I don't know if it's because of the faux potato patina, I don't know if it's because it's a white dial with the colours of it. It's the Pepsi colours with not a black dial but a white one. I don't know, I just like it. And then the back of it, the emblem that's on it is pretty funky. So Dave, you're a guy that likes his planes. What's the story here? Or Pan Am back?
- [19:10]
Dave
Yes but no or aye but no in Scottish terms. Anyway, let's kind of get into this. So they've got the Christopher Ward C60 Clipper GMT. Now we should also mention Christopher Ward who are one of the founding members of the alliance of British Watch and Clock Maker show coming up very soon. If you've not got your ticket, make sure you get it. They're a British brand but a lot of their watches end up being sold in the United States. They have got a significant business over the US. I think it's something like 60% of their watches end up finding a home on someone's wrist in the usa. Anyway, this is a collaboration with Pan Am or Pan American World Airways to give it its full name. An airline that, well, well, they operated up till I think the early 90s when they stopped existing as an airline, they were de facto the gauge of luxury air travel. One of the very first, they did the first transatlantic flight where you had a jet airliner and you could come across from the US to Europe. But I understand the company as of 2025 or Pan Am are back not as a commercial kind of airline company, but as well as a luxury air travel brand that give dedicated tours and experience type narrative to travellers. Don't know what that actually means, but appears that someone's got hold of the name. It's back, it's being used in some way loosely aligned with what it did. But back in the day, of course, Pan Am did have lots of history and heritage with watches. The Rolex GMT Master that was specifically developed for Pan Am pilots and that Pepsi Colourway was kind of reflective of the signature colors again of Pan Am. And I think back in October 26, 1958, they became the first airline that gave a jet powered flight across the Atlantic. And that was In a Boeing 707, one of the earliest jet airliners.
- [21:01]
Ricky
Well, I'm going to jump in quickly and say the only thing I can think of or the most recent thing I can think of. And I'm Scottish. So Pan Am has a different connotation for me due to my childhood. But I remember Leonardo DiCaprio in Catch Me if youf can and the thing that sticks out is when he was trying to take the Pan Am stickers off the model planes to create the fake checks. That's my big standout for those guys. And this watch now, yeah, of course
- [21:25]
Dave
that movie was based in and around the peak of the airline when they were really on the top of their game. The Clipper part of this watch name, where does that come from? Well, all of their planes famously had names and many of them were Clipper something. That very first watch was the Clipper. That very first 707 that did that flight across the Atlantic was Clipper American. So lots of tie ins. A limited edition, there's only 707 pieces because of course the plane was a Boeing 707. The date wheel on it, the 26th is in blue. That's kind of celebrating, of course the 26th of October, which was the date that the flight took place. It's a 42 millimeter GMT watch and a world time watch as well. It's 300 meters of water resistance, stainless steel case. It's based around their light capture case. Style thickness wise about 12.5 millimeters in terms of Thickness, so relatively wearable. The bezel is where it changes. You don't have the, of course, the unidirectional die bezel. You've got a 24 click bidirectional world timer bezel with an aluminium insert or aluminum for our American friends that depicts 24 of the world's time zones. What they've not done though, is put city names like you would typically expect to see. You've got 24 airport codes from those specific time zones and they were all related to cities and airports that Pan Am flew to Key west in Florida. That's eyw. That's picked out in red because that is where Pan Am's original base of operations was. That's pretty cool. Little nice attention to detail. The dial itself, I wouldn't say it's white. I would go more with a kind of creamy eggshelly type color on there as well. Secondhand's cool. It's got a little kind of counterbalance which is a little 707 Clipper plane there as well. You've got the Pan Am logo kind of above the date, which is situated at 6 o'. Clock. The watch runs on a Sellita SW332 GMT calibre. It's got 56 hours of power reserve price point point 1,450 or $1,950 US. I kind of like this. I've never actually personally been a big fan of the Pan Am vibe. I don't know what it is, it's the colors. I do quite like some of the colorways, but I don't know something about it. And it's not just this Christopher Ward one, it's any of the Pan Am ones. None of them have really gone to me. Oh, I really like that. I do agree with you, Ricky, that this is probably the best executed of all of the Pan Am editions that have come out over the last, well, couple of years.
- [23:42]
Ricky
Yeah, I think it's a win. And Christopher Ward have got some really cool stuff coming down the line. Patrick has been in touch. He's told us a little bit about what's behind the scenes. Obviously things will be happening at Watchmakers Day. Dave mentioned that and we will have Alistair from the alliance on shortly telling us about what's happening throughout the day, who's coming along, what's going to go down and all the limited edition releases that have been announced thus far. But we're going to go back in time prior to when Pan Am went under and to, I don't know not the swinging 60s, but the laid back 70s. Because back in that era there was lots of cool watches coming out from lots of brands that have kind of fallen off a little bit. We're talking Piaget this time around. Now over the last couple of years, they really have hit the headlines. But it's strange because they do something, they get the coverage, but then they simmer away, they disappear, they go back into the darkness. We try and catch up them at Watches and Wonders because it's the only opportunity we get to see them in real life, check out the pieces. And they have had standouts, they've had world record thinnest, this, that and the other. And then they reveal some of the lines from, as I say, back in the 70s. And this one is fantastic. It is a combination of different colors. I don't know if Dave will like it because there's a mixture of two tone going on. But the venetian blind styling to this watch, it just blows my mind. What do you think?
- [24:57]
Dave
Well, we're talking all about the Piaget Polo 79 and the new iteration is a two tone version. And I'm not usually the biggest fan of 2 tone. I own a couple because, well, you kind of have to, I guess at some point own some two tone watches. But they're not generally my vibe. And generally, generally speaking, in two tone you've got a precious metal, usually yellow gold, quite often combined with stainless steel. Well, Piaget a little more refined than that as we'll see. So they re released the Polo 79, I think it was 2024. And if I remember rightly, Ricky, for both yourself and myself, we saw that at Watches and Wonders. And in that year it was one of the favorite watches that we saw of everything we saw. It was definitely up in the top five of watches that we got hands on. Felt amazing all of the way the bracelet was done. It was just a great watch. And that re release was 45 years after it had originally debuted. It was also, I think, the winner of the iconic watch at GPHG in 2024 as well. So the world kind of. Well, they took it well. They liked the watch. It was solid yellow gold integrated bracelet. The year later they produced a white gold version, essentially the same, but in all white gold. And now of course they've got these two tones. But what they've actually done with this is it's two tone in two different types of gold. So it's a white gold watch with yellow gold gadrones on it, or gadrons however you want to pronounce them that and it's got the yellow gold hands more refined and more subtle than many two tone watches in my opinion. I definitely prefer the all yellow gold version of this watch for sure but this is much more acceptable than most two tone watches in my opinion as well. In many ways it's exactly the same as that 2024 release. The calibre is the same. It's the 1200p1 micro rotor calibre. It's limited production, not limited edition. It's still 38 millimeters. It's very slim at 7.45 millime. You've got that 58 meters of water resistance on there as well. A great looking watch. Just I'd still take the gold one and you know I'm not the biggest yellow gold watch fan either but in yellow gold this is a watch that just kind of works nice in two tone. Ricky, I have zero ideas about your take. I don't think we've ever discussed do you like two tone watches or not?
- [27:07]
Ricky
I don't think we've had this discussion and we're going to have a short discussion in a minute because something popped up in our Facebook group but I'll answer your question just now the Rolex Marner blue which is two tone with blue almost into purple depending on the year and the way that has patinaed that is a watch that I really like and I'm not a big dive watch type of person. I'm more in the GMT line obviously. I had the Batman back in the day and I was actually in at the Rolex ad and I got to have a look at the sky dweller, the new models and what was the other one? I got to play with the yacht master but I have seen in windows of second hand emporiums the bluesy in two tone and I think the silver color, the gold color and the blue color mixing together that's good. But this one with just the two colors, I don't know, it gives me vibes of a colored zebra or a cheetah or something where there is a clash of colors that really shouldn't work but it does come together. So this is one I want to check out. So hopefully we get a bit of time with the guys at Piaget when we're actually across there in a few weeks time. But as I mentioned the Facebook group if you're not part of that you should check it out. Go and search for Scottish watches on Facebook like the page. Join the group, answer the questions if you we don't let you in. And it's a great little community of like minded folks who are into this collecting hobby. All kinds of stuff, vintage auction picks, brand new watches, secondhand things that have been in people's collections. Lots of posts each day, not too many idiots, apart from myself and Dave. But there was a question posed and I thought we'd have a quick chat about it.
- [28:39]
Dave
Indeed, the question was posed by Gren Phelps, someone who, well, he's written in and communicated with us quite a lot over the years. And his question he posed is pre owned watches, do you prefer them with boxing papers or without? Not bothered in his word, he says he was talking about it with his other half and she was asking if it's essential. He said yes, but I've since thought maybe not. And he was asking what is people's take on this subject? What's your take? Would you have watches with or without boxes and papers?
- [29:09]
Ricky
It all depends. Just like everything in life. I thought about this and then I replied and said it does much matter, but only if the watch is of significant value and it's fairly recent. As in there should be no reason that a watch is separated from its constituent parts to become a full set. If it was a Rolex, I would appreciate that. If it was an Omega, I'd appreciate that. If it was one of the independents, yes. But as we slide down the scale, perhaps down to like a Christopher Ward, I wouldn't be too fussed because even the box that it comes with is very good, very well put together and extremely sustainable. Made from bamboo. But I don't give a F if I don't get the box. If it was a G shock, I was buying secondhand, wouldn't care. If it was a Formex, we're getting into slightly better territory, perhaps I would. And definitely if it was like a Moser, a Vacheron, something like that, I would want absolutely everything. Reason being value retention. We talk about it in the show, not as in Flippers, buying a watch to increase the profit and sell it on. But if you're buying something you'd like to have all the bits and bobs. If it cost you a fair amount of money. And it's like buying a car without service history or the owner manual or the second key, stuff like that, I think it's quite good. But then again there is a price point coming down to, in my mind maybe around about a thousand bucks. Anything less than that I don't think I would care. Or if it was vintage and there was a good Reason that somebody moved house, they lost the box. Back in the day, people didn't really care too much about it. It's only recent times that having the full set is a better idea, especially when you're buying and selling. Just like back in the day, people would polish watches, put service dials in them, bring them back to their former gloves glory. Nowadays that is frowned upon and obviously values drop dramatically when people do that. So what's your take on it? Boxes, papers, good idea, bad idea?
- [30:53]
Dave
I'm going to say pretty similar to you. I think it depends on a couple of other factors. If you don't get the boxes and papers, you're probably going to pay a little less than you would if they were provided. Therefore, the value retention argument is, well, it depends whose value you're retaining. If you paid less for it, you'll get less. If you sell it again, but you already paid less when you bought it. So it kind of balances out a little bit. If it's a very old vintage watch, to be honest, don't care. The box is probably long gone. If the box does exist, it's probably in a rather dilapidated state. I've got watches from the 90s, even those red Omega boxes from the kind of 90s, and it's that horrible synthetic material that it just degrades and breaks up over time. So frankly, a lot of the boxes from back in the day, the quality of them wasn't really designed to stand the test of time. Time. Do I want a scabby box? I mean, if it's there, fine, but it doesn't bother me. I think if it's very new, then sure, you probably want everything. If it's premium, you probably want the box. They do end up in cupboards, let's be honest. And I think if the box is a bigger part of what the product is, sometimes it's a special edition box, sometimes it's a really cool way that it's been presented. And that is part and parcel of the product itself. It depends what your narrative is and it depends where you're at. I'm a bit of a completist. I like boxes, but the older I
- [32:18]
Ricky
get, I think the older you get, the sooner you'll be in one yourself.
- [32:21]
Dave
Well, I mean, that's very true as well. Do I want a box or do I get a carbon run or do I just go to the big fire?
- [32:26]
Ricky
Who knows, you know what they're doing now to save money. They're actually melting remains. Not in fires and crematoriums, they're using like a liquid substance to. Yeah, it's all. It's all really strange. I shouldn't know about this. Of stuff.
- [32:38]
Dave
Yes. Do you have any of said fluids? Haven't seen your good lady for a while.
- [32:43]
Ricky
She's around somewhere.
- [32:45]
Dave
Is she in a different physical state?
- [32:48]
Ricky
She's not turned to gas yet.
- [32:50]
Dave
Okay. Anyway. Okay, well, if you want to see what other folk had to say, go check out the Facebook group because there was quite a lot of engagement on that question that was posed. So go and put your own opinion in. If you think we're wrong, if you think we're right, go and stick your tuppence worth in there as well. But what we should do is. Well, before Mziel loses the plot, he is the maestro of all show notes. Of course, check out the show notes for pictures and, well, correct technical information that we may or may not get. Correct or wrong wrist check time. Because he'll be wanting to know what that is. So I always come second. Ricky, you are going to go first. What have you got on your wrist or beside you on your desk?
- [33:24]
Ricky
What's on the wrist? And if you're watching YouTube, you know this, you've probably been spying it as we've been chatting. And it's a watch that I ordered a long time ago. But these things are made on a one by one basis. And then to add a little bit more fuel to the fire, I asked if I could personalize and customize the watch not just on the front, but on the back. So what are we talking about? Well, we're talking about apiar, a brand that we brought on because the two young guys that are at the head of this forward thinking watch manufacturer, they're using additive technologies. So I called it 3D printing. They said, no, no, no, it's not not called 3D printing. And then during the episode, they called it 3D printing themselves. But it's a titanium 3D printing structure. They create the watch from the bottom up. Everything is produced in a way that it would be almost efficient, if not completely impossible to cnc, to mill or to laser out. And this is phenomenal. It's called the Gen 1.0 and it's got a grid on the front of a web structure. And when you look at it, you think it's like a spider's web. But then when you catch it properly, when you look closer, you see that the structure, it doesn't join in the places you would think. It doesn't run in a concentric way. Everything is kind of Joined in a way it's just shouldn't. So the more you look, the more you get confused. Then you look at the sides of the watch and you're even more confused. And then you weigh the watch or you hold it in your hand and you think, how the hell does this exist? So the details, the spec on it, I will run through quickly for you. So the first thing to talk about is the weight. This is 3D printed, so they don't have any parts that you don't really need. They have got just enough metalwork to accomplish producing a watch. That is it. So this thing weighs 38 grams. We talked about world records last year. We had the guys on from Ulysses talking about the Dive Air series. Well, this is a contender. And I mentioned about the way they've done this web arrangement and the best thing about it. And I only figured this out myself when the watch arrived and I was wearing it for a couple of days. The web tells the time because you have got the top part of the web at the 12, the bottom at the 6. Then you've got the 3, the 9 and the increments of 5 in between. So you can totally tell the time. Even though there are no index markers. Nothing on the chapter ring, nothing at all like that. And the way this one's been customized for myself is I decided to go with a funky color. No, I didn't go for orange this time. I went for a purple. No idea why. It just crossed my mind and asked the guys if they could do it and they said they could. So this is a one of one unique piece. You can obviously ask when you're buying these to have them customized. And everything about it is 3D printed. If we look at the hardware on the back of the clasp, that's 3D printed. If I take it off the wrist because you get to see more about the side, flanks and obviously the case. Back, back. They even customized the back. This part I didn't ask for. But they put the Scottish watches logo and the way they have used a laser to cut in it is phenomenal. The way that that reflects back the light, it's almost like a hologram emblazoned on the back there. So yeah, one of one. And it is the gen 1.0. Don't know why it says prototype on the strap because it's not a prototype, it's a one of one. And it has got that HR Geiger style. It's got the 3D printing that you might see on a Formula One car in aerospace. Because if you look up where the actual luggage czar, everything is organic looking, they have used the minimal amount of material so it is super lightweight and it has got that crazy alien looking vibe to it. Dave, you've obviously seen these guys a number of times at different watch shows, different events. What do you think of these?
- [36:50]
Dave
Do you know? One thing I'll say about these watches is it's amazing to see a small new start company actually try and do something different. Let's be honest in the watches. Lots of stuff, stuff is cool, lots of nice watches but lots of it is based around technologies and methodologies that have been there for a long time and it's always great when someone just picks up the bat and goes let's use something new. Yes. 3D printing, additive processes, etc have started to make their way into the marketplace and there's definitely been well some brands doing this type of thing. But it's nice when a young company goes, you know what we're to going to do it. Don't take the easy path, don't just go and get another case from somewhere that you can get cases from, but actually try and do something different. So you know, fair play to them. I know some folk are going to really like this aesthetic, others are probably not going to like it. But then we say this often having something that is a little divisive is a good thing because you get folk who adore it and folk who well hate it and it creates a bit of discussion around it. So yeah, cool looking watch. Definitely very kind of alien esque organic stroke. Something weird and wonderful going on. I think it's a great looking watch. Like the colorway on it, nice little bit of customization you've got on that one as well. So yeah, very good.
- [38:06]
Ricky
Quickly run through the specs. So it's a 39 mil case thickness of 9.2 mil lug to lug 37.75. Come on guys, round up to 44. It is a three part case construction with grade 23 titanium, a grade I didn't know exist mentioned earlier. 38 grams and it's got a sapphire crystal with AR coating on the front. 30 meters of water resistance with a Le Joux Paris G101 inside 68 hours of power reserve and an accuracy of about plus minus 12 seconds a day. That's quoted. It's actually a lot better. It's got a seconds hand on it so I can actually check these things. So you're interested in one of these for yourself? Definitely jump across the show notes, click across to the APIAR website and for around about 2000, I think it's £2,250 including tax. You can get a 3D printed titanium watch on the wrist with a fantastic movement which is pretty much unique. You'll not find these anywhere else and these prices are going to go up and up. I know for a fact these guys are just doing this at an entry level price point to get the name out there. So you could definitely have something that nobody at your local watch meetup or wherever you're going in the world with a watch, no one else is going to have the same thing. Right Dave, so I've done the wrist check. Time for you to tell us what you've got on right the wrist today.
- [39:19]
Dave
Well, what have I got on the wrist today? I'm also wearing a titanium wrist and for a change it's actually on my wrist. I also don't have my down facing camera because well, I'm in a hotel room. But I am wearing one of the prototypes and I will take it off so that, well, hopefully I can hold it the right way up. I am wearing the prototype of the Arage meteorite GMT Autark Tourbillon. It's a tourbillon, yes. No. David says he's not the biggest fan of tourbillons and holes and dials, but well, he's begging to kind of like them more than he used to.
- [39:47]
Ricky
Towing the company line, toying the company
- [39:49]
Dave
line, being a good boy. Pat on the head for David. Micro adjustable clasp, 10 millimeters. As I said, it's very, very wearable. The meteorite dial is really good. It's a 50 piece limited edition and well, I think there's a handful of them left but they'll probably be gone in the next week or so. So yes, that is what I'm wearing. Should probably get on with a little bit more news before we have to round out the show.
- [40:09]
Ricky
And where do you work in again, Dave?
- [40:11]
Dave
I work for Horage. Are they called hirage? Yes, it's a watch company. They're in Switzerland and they're called Hirage. I don't think many folk know that.
- [40:18]
Ricky
Well, you know what, Just in case we get any shit in somebody's newsletter again, we may as well say that, but yeah, let's move on to another titanium watch. Funnily enough, yeah, the triple bill. This is a super cool watch from a brand you wouldn't expect to make something that looks a little bit like this Chopard.
- [40:33]
Dave
A brand who do well some very nice watches but I would say on the more conservative side of things, they. This one is far from conservative. This is the Chopard Zagato Lab 1 concept. It is Chopard's lightest ever titanium watch without a strap, which is a little pointless because let's be honest, you can't wear it without a strap. It's only 36.5 grams, which frankly is ludicrously light.
- [40:57]
Ricky
God damn. That's two grams lighter than the one I've got.
- [41:00]
Dave
There we go. Well, it was launched at Retromobile Classic car show in Paris and of course, if you know anything about the cars and you like fancy cars, you probably come across the brand Zagato. They've done some pretty funky cars over the years. How have they done it? Lots of features have been removed, like, well, the dial, because there isn't one. The case has been really pared back as much as they possibly can. They are using a phrase, weight to power. Obviously it's a bit of a play on the power to weight ratio with cars and such like, but the movement main plate is effectively functioning as the dial here. Here you've got a fuel gauge inspired power reserve indicator. It's a Tourbillon, it's a 60 second flying tourbillon and it's housed in an aluminium carriage which of course is used to get the weight down. It's part of the bigger Mielle Mikla collection. That is their motorsport inspired watches that they've had in the range, well, for many, many years. They call it a tubular architecture, even down to the hinged lugs. They kind of rotate round, I think to about 45 degrees there. Very small, small. It's a ceramized titanium structure that's got lots of little tubes in it that support the movement. The case is, I think it's created by electroplasma oxidation of titanium. Super hard Thousand Vickers is the hardness rating, obviously. Very shock and scratch resistant comparability of ceramic when it comes to the scratches, but the shock and kind of impact resistance being towards the titanium. So best of both worlds in many ways. It's 42 millimeters by 11.5 thick. With a strap it's 43.2 grams, which is still frankly ludicrously light. Choosing a movement that's been in the range for quite a while. That's the Luc 0404L movement. It's cost certified. 16 hours of power reserve. They are only making 19 of these and, well, the price is. Well, there is no price. They've not said what the price is, which means it's not going to be inexpensive. This though is a really. Don't swear, David. Cool watch. What an amazing looking watch. Not something you would have expected to be honest, from Chopard at all. My betting, I would probably bet a 50 pence on this that Ricky is going to absolutely love this watch. Definitely check the show notes out to get a look at it though because it's well worth a little gander. Ricky, am I right? Do I keep my 50 pence?
- [43:12]
Ricky
You do. You can put it in the meter. And you say this isn't like what they usually do. Yeah, you're quite correct. Alpine Eagle, probably what they're most famous for in our circles. They did a couple of cool additions. One last year that was murdered out I suppose you could say. And one previous to that had that flippy chameleon paint style. Depending how you looked at it, it was purple or it was green. That was starting to edge away from the classic Chopar stuff that they do. But obviously every year they do the Mille Miglia range where they change the design design and then put a new version out. And I remember many, many years ago at a show, probably one of the Basel worlds before it closed, they had the full collection of them on a racetrack and you could see the, the way that things have progressed over the years. This is insane. If I didn't see the Chopin name on it, I would have thought this was a Girard Perregaux because it reminds me of the three bridge arrangement. But this is stunning. It's so well executed. It's going to be a lot more expensive than the titanium number you're wearing or the one I'm wearing wearing. But I think it's well worth whatever it is they command. And I know that people were comparing it to Richard Mille and the millions of dollars that they charge for similar things, but lightweight titanium, that may be the big thing for 20, 26 and beyond.
- [44:23]
Dave
It could be super light watches. That could definitely be the well in fad thing for this year, who knows? Only time will tell us on that one.
- [44:32]
Ricky
But it's time to tell you about some moves in the industry. And the folks at Richemont have had a little bit of a shuffle with their brand and they get rid of somebody.
- [44:41]
Dave
But what is the news? Well, Richemont have sold Beaumein Mercier, they've sold it to an Italian jeweller and watch retailer by the name of Damiani. Now the brand, it's got 200 years of history. They are I guess best known for producing well priced, accessible Swiss Watches, they've got ranges like the Clifton and the Riviera. And we've definitely talked about the brand over a few episodes over the last few years as well. Founded back in 1870, it was owned at one point by Piaget, then it was owned by Cartier. Then in the 80s it was acquired by the group or the entity that became what we know today as the Richemont Group. There is plans with the new owners to open mono branded boutiques in some strategic locations over time. Richemont are still going to provide operational services for the brand for, well, at least 12 months. What that actually means, not quite sure, but anyway, I'm sure we all know what that means. They're probably still going to maybe help them with the manufacturing of the watches for a given period of time. The question for me is is this the beginning of some of the big brands offloading brands that they have in their portfolios that are maybe, well, how should we put it, not performing to expectations? Swatch Group of course have got 16 brands in there, everything from Omega, Breguet, Rado, Certina, Mido and a multitude of others. And there's been rumors that float about about other brands in the LVMH Group, for example, that, well, where are they up for sale? Weren't they up for sale? I know, for example, things like Grubel Forsey, there was some news there of things moving and happenings and shakings over the last few days and they've well put out a strong denial that it's up for sale. But who knows? I think over this year we're definitely going to see some brands either moving to new homes or even maybe some being put down. Is that the polite way of saying it? Not sure who they'll be, what it'll look like, but. Well, it started now that's the first offloading of a brand from for this current period.
- [46:32]
Ricky
So what you're saying, Dave, is that some watch brands are going to live on a farm. Remember that one? Remember that one?
- [46:36]
Dave
Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.
- [46:39]
Ricky
Yeah.
- [46:39]
Dave
Okay.
- [46:39]
Ricky
Bon Mercier is a brand that when I got into watches, people were talking about it was coming back. Clifton Club came out lower priced entities. They were showcasing at Watches, wonders, Baselworld, things like that. I got to have a look at them. They weren't really here in the UK on the high street, difficult to get hold of and it's like the change that fell down the cushions in the sofa. It's the brand that people kind of saw, they kind of remembered, but they didn't really Buy. And it was the ugly stepchild, I suppose you could say. It's been kicked around. It was kind of revitalized a little bit. We went to see them a couple of years ago at Watches and Wonders to see what they were up to. Because we like to look at brands that we don't hear too much about. It's how we discover those gems that are usually hidden away. But yeah, they just didn't really either perform. They weren't given the love, the care and the attention and the marketing. Because when's the last time we talked about one of the releases in the show? Probably maybe once a year, something like that, if at all. So it's a shame that they were left to wilt on the vine, but they have been taken over by somebody that maybe can put a little bit of love, care and attention back in there while Richemont Concentrate and the other brands that are doing well.
- [47:45]
Dave
Before we get this show rounded out and ended well, we should talk about what you've been up to, Ricky. You're always up to something. Probably watching a film from, I don't know, 1984 or something like that. But anyway, what have you been up to?
- [47:56]
Ricky
Not 1984, but slightly newer than that. And it's usually nefarious. Things I've been up to predominantly organizing Watches and Wonders, playing the jigsaw of taking brands, calendar, scheduling, putting it into hours, finding another brand of the days that were there, making sure there's enough time to move between all the different places without missing appointments. So that's finally been done, I believe. I think there's a few stragglers that we're going to be placing. But yeah, we've kind of signed off and everything. We know what we're doing and we're changing things up. So instead of going, going, covering stuff, remembering it, taking content, bringing it back home, editing it and then putting it out maybe a week later because it takes a while. Obviously, with traveling coming back, we're going to try and do more. When I say we, I mean me in the hotel room with a laptop to try and get the content out a little bit faster. Fingers crossed it comes together. Apart from that, met an old buddy, actually somebody I've not seen for potentially 25 years. It was somebody I worked with and then worked for back in the day. And it's good to catch up with old mates because we're a long time dead. We're all moving on in years. And yeah, if. If you can reach out, have a chat with folks. That was a Good walk down memory lane. And we like to talk about anniversaries in this show. An anniversary that came up was actually the 30th anniversary of one of my favorite games from when I was a young chap, and that is Duke Nukem 3D. Came out from Apogee, originally shareware on the PC and it was a bit like Wolfenstein 3D and Doom, but it's a bit more humor and it had a fantastic voiceover for the main character where lots of pop culture references from movies of the 80s, early 90s were rolled into things. So yeah, three decades of that. And it's also 100 years of television. John Logie Baird, guy from Scotland, funnily enough, invented television along with other people. We've got to give this little bit of disclaimer along with other people across the world. He was the first one to kind of push it across the finish line. So yeah, 100 years of that. Movies wise, I caught up with ancient movies. Ancient movies, we're talking Hollow man, which was around about the 2000, early 2000s. Great movie, great acting. Storyline based on the Invisible man, if you've not seen it, is one to check out. The visuals kinda hold up, but it was early cgi, so you have to forgive a few things. And Layer Cake, the Daniel Craig movie where he pretends he's Bond at certain points, that probably got him the gig as Bond later on. That one is phenomenal. Probably talked about it in the show before, but I've not seen it for probably 10 years.
- [50:16]
Dave
Well, that's one of the classics. That's one you can kind of go back and watch and it's amusing, it's humorous and it's just a well made film to be fair.
- [50:23]
Ricky
Yeah. So what you've been up to?
- [50:24]
Dave
What I've been up to? Well, I. I have been like you. Getting ready for watches and wonders, getting the diaries aligned, making sure that we're in the same place at the same time. And so far so good. Crossed fingers that it's all going to line up. I've also been getting ready at work because we've got a new watch launch that will be coming up in the near future. So that of course takes a huge amount of time to get things done and dusted. I've been down in London. I've scoped out a new location for Red Bar London that, fingers crossed again, hopefully comes to fruition. They're making lots of promises about what they can provide and maybe that could be a good thing. So only time will tell. And well, I've got a little invite, I think Ricky's coming along as well to an Alpine event. That is a car event. He's not going to a Porsche event for a change. This is an Alpine one.
- [51:04]
Ricky
Oh, are we buying head units and CD changers?
- [51:06]
Dave
No, no, not that Alpine. Different Alpine anyway. And not Alpina, which is the BMW one. But anyway, we're going to this event. They're all new showroom. In the coming days I'll be bringing
- [51:15]
Ricky
a couple of new things as well.
- [51:16]
Dave
So that is essentially pretty much what I've been up to. Nothing exciting on either side of us, but. But, well, next episode we'll have some stuff to talk about because we'll both be at some events. So Ricky, I think that is us getting towards the back end of this
- [51:27]
Ricky
show and we want to say at the end of the show we appreciate it. If you email in. We've obviously talked about some folks that have emailed in. Never DM us on Instagram just gets lost. So that email address is infoocottishwatches.co.uk. and we've had some really interesting emails, not just from listeners and viewers and people on social media. Some interesting folks, interesting companies have been in touch and it's not just the usual watches brands we've had. We're not going to let the cat out the bag, but there's some phenomenal people got in touch about potentially doing some phenomenal things in the future. Not all watch related. So yeah, more coming on that soon. And obviously check out our back catalog. We've got a ton in there. We are approached, oh, this is episode 750. We should have done something to celebrate. We're just going to have to wait for episode 800 and we'll do something rather special. But in the back catalog you can go through, you can catch up with Jeff, the CEO of Formula E, talking about all things watch collecting. And it ain't just the heavy hitters, it's not just the Nautilus Patek chat. He talks about Venezianico, he talks about Spinnaker, talks about Christopher Ward, lots of super cool brands from entry price points all the way up and obviously microwave racing.
- [52:30]
Dave
And then we had, well, Sarah, the Duchess of Watches. She was back on telling us, well, all about what she's been up to because she hadn't been on the show for quite a while. So she was divulging all of her secrets about auctions.
- [52:40]
Ricky
Indeed. And then we had Barbara Palumbo for our first outing of 2026. Prior to that we had Ken Kennedy, we had a review of last year and then all the Dubai Watch week stuff going way, way back into the past. Tons in there. One show a week on YouTube, two shows on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and one last thing, one last shout out for anybody that tried to get the Andrew Morgan episode on Apple podcasts. They don't seem to like them. It appeared and then it disappeared and it has never reappeared. But if you go to the Apple podcast website, if you Google Apple podcast Scottish watches Andrew Morgan it will appear. If you try and play it in the podcast player on your iPhone it will not play. Very odd. If you want to hear that episode go to Spotify, go to our website, play it directly from there or that one actually appeared on YouTube so go to our YouTube channel and check it out there. But that is us at the end of our show. Thank you for listening and we'll catch you again soon.
- [53:32]
Dave
Take care. Sa.