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Scottish Watches Podcast #751 : Bark and Jack’s Adrian Barker Explains The Reasons Behind His Green Fifteen Limited Edition Watch
00:47:15
In this episode, we’re joined by Adrian Barker of Bark & Jack for a long-overdue catch-up. Covering everything from creativity, content burnout, and rediscovering the joy of editing, to life...
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the Scottish Watches podcast. We've got an old friend returning, somebody who got introduced to the podcast probably three months after it came to be. We were going to go to Baselworld. Remember Baselworld back in the day? And I got a message from this guy who I'd been watching on YouTube for a number of years, Adrian Barker from Bark and Jack, and he said, are you guys going to Baselworld? It'd be cool to meet you in real life. And that is now, six years ago. Welcome back to the show.
- [00:25]
B
Hey, man. Yeah, I remember that. We had a little selfie, didn't we? We had a little.
- [00:29]
A
Did more than that. We took over the press area and we recorded our first podcast together. Six years ago, nearly.
- [00:34]
B
That's crazy. So early into you guys starting.
- [00:37]
A
Three months. We started in January 13, 2019 and it was March, I believe, for Baselworld. So, yeah, you were an early adopter of Scottish Watches. Even though we've been watching your stuff
- [00:48]
B
for years, you guys don't miss about. Yeah, that was fun.
- [00:50]
A
750 plus episodes now we're doing alright. We're catching up with your video count.
- [00:55]
B
Yeah, I need to up my game. I feel everyone's catching up with me. It just takes so long to make them. I just need to improve it. But I'm editing again and I've realized I got annoyed with. Not annoyed. You know, when you sometimes fall out of love with a process that you used to love. I realized the bit that I love the most about making videos is the editing part, is the shooting and the editing. The bit that I hate the most is the writing part, is a research. Although I quite enjoy the. The learning part of the research. But it's really nice getting back into editing.
- [01:28]
A
Have you learned to put the microphone in front of your mouth and not to turn away from it?
- [01:31]
B
No, it's my stuff. Started using a shotgun mic again because I move around so much that I make it look like I'm using a podcast mic. But I feel like for you guys, for this professional outfit, I should probably get a better arm. You've got a better arm than I.
- [01:44]
A
I've been to the gym. I've got two of them.
- [01:47]
B
Yeah, I've got.
- [01:48]
A
No, we've upgraded over the. I mean, God almighty. We started out emulating what you do in video, but in an audio format because. And not to be sycophantic, but it was cause of people like yourself and Tim Mosso and various other folks in the YouTube sphere that I decided to give the whole podcasting thing a Go. Instead of just being a consumer. And my background is obviously media, wedding, photography, video. And we'll get onto that later on. Cause there's a little chat we're gonna have. But being able to go in front of the camera, in front of the microphone, that was a huge jump. But the way you explain stuff on your own shows, that's what pushed us into doing it. But anyway, we're getting ahead of ourselves. Time to tell everybody to check the show. Not because we're going to be divulging a lot of cool information when we're going behind the scenes of a limited edition release everybody already knows about. But there have been developments, there have been some positives, some negatives. We'll get into those and we're going to catch up with what Adrian has been up to for probably well over a year. Because we've not seen each other for a year. It's been action packed in my side, obviously. House, move, getting married, getting a car, all that kind of jazz while still trying to pump out two podcasts a week and a video. And you've been crazy, you've been busy, you've been all over the place. Everywhere I go, I see you. It could be Dubai, it could be down south, it could be over in Geneva. But yeah, we've done the show note thing. Probably best to get the wrist. Check out the way you're the guest honor. What you got on the wrist today?
- [03:01]
B
I have got. I'll be very biased. I've got an absolutely awesome. Do we swear on this podcast? I can't remember. I won't swear. No, we don't.
- [03:08]
A
We don't say the F, the C
- [03:09]
B
and the B. I've got F, C and a B. But we can say the S. A bloomin hot watch. But it's very biased because it's my watch that I designed with Christopher Ward. This is the green 15. I don't know if we call it limited edition or limited production.
- [03:22]
A
Is it going to be a watch that's going to be on sale for six months? No, it's limited edition then by time, not by volume.
- [03:29]
B
Yes. Yeah, but it's a, it's a, it's. I feel like it's a beefier version of their C60 Trident Lumiere.
- [03:38]
A
I'm also wearing a limited edition Christopher Ward, but it's been out of production for a long, long time.
- [03:42]
B
Oh, look at that. You got two cameras set up. I should have got another camera. That looks fantastic.
- [03:47]
A
So I'm also wearing a Christopher Ward release. This is Our limited edition. So we set the trend for once and you followed suit. But we'll get into more on that later. This was based on the Sealander, obviously we called it the Helander, keeping it very Scottish. And this was a limited edition run. A genuine limited edition of 69 pieces. They hardly ever appear on the secondary market, but when they do, they usually get snapped up quite quick. And there's an almost paisley pattern to the dial where you've got. Instead of the usual logo at the top there with the Christopher Ward English logo and their logo, you've got a Scottish logo, you've got a saltire and obviously the Swiss logo beside it as well. One of the best things about it, apart from the fact Roger Smith had a hand in it. Yes, he did. We actually asked Roger what he thought of the date disc. Should it be white or should it be black? And he said go for the darker color. So Roger Smith helped design this watch. It's one of my favorites. I hardly get the chance to wear it because there are so many other watches in the box, watches that arrive from different companies to try out. Looking on the back. It even plays into the Scottishness. Yeah, we've got a Saltar on the back. So this was our first limited edition with the guys at Christopher Ward. And good to see that you've carried on that tradition.
- [04:55]
B
Yeah. And we haven't. And I guess kind of lent into the Scottishness with the whole marketing campaign's been around the Glencoe Highland area, which has been a bit of fun and was a bit of a mess as well because the Scottish weather isn't the most reliable. I can't wait for the time when our order window closes like you and can say that like you're now in the future of it being it's done. Like you can't. Yes, you could get it on the secondary market, but ultimately that. That piece of Christopher Wood history and Scottish watches history is a little chapter that's in the past and this is now something special that's in the future. And I'm quite excited about that element of it. I think it's quite fun.
- [05:39]
A
Well, I think we've kind of delayed things. I was hoping to keep all this chat till then. It's never going to happen. So it was all getting to the bones of the matter just now. Why did it take you so long to make a limited edition watch?
- [05:49]
B
We've had lots of offers and we've had lots of ideas around limited edition watches.
- [05:56]
A
The reason I say this is because we've done 12 and we've only been running for about six years.
- [06:02]
B
Yeah, but you're so much more organized than I'm now. There was a concern from my end around. I like being independent from the brands. Yes, there are brands that I work with. There's less than a handful of brands that I work with commercially. But ultimately I like to be free from any form of connection with a brand. And there is an element of, or there's a perception rather of whenever you work with a brand, you then have to shill whatever they do that that isn't the case. Like, I have a commercial relationship with iwc but they know not to send me, I don't know, some fancy dull Portuguese or something like. They know what my tastes are. They tend to be chronographs and pilot watches.
- [06:47]
A
They're not going to send you a ladies watch with diamonds everywhere.
- [06:50]
B
Oh, they might do. They did a gold engineer. I think it was a 36. That was pretty sexy. I would have had that, but it was quite pricey. So, yeah, the reason I delayed it was I don't like having a relationship with brand in that sense. However, when I got the C60, the original C60 lumiere in, I thought, I think this is it. Because there were all the construction parts, the difficult parts were done. I thought they were fantastic. The case design is brilliant. The thickness of the cases is insane for the water resistance. The bracelet is really very good. It was just details on the dial, which in my head, in my ignorance was, oh, this will be easy to change. But it was quite tricky because we've got two tone lume and it took a while for them to get the right concoction of the two tone loom. I wanted UV parts on the dial but not for. Not to be visible in the daylight. That was quite tricky. But yeah, so it, it got to the point where I think this is it. And I felt so strongly that I wanted this to be it, that the concerns of the perception kind of became secondary and negligible. I thought that I want to make this watch and that's how it came about.
- [08:02]
A
So who reached out to who? Did you approach them or did they get in touch and say, oh, you've said some nice things about this watch, perhaps we can do something in the future?
- [08:10]
B
I was hoping they were going to do that because in my review of the C60 Lumiere, I talk about not liking the dial or feeling the dial could be improved, but actually got to the point where I said, guys, can I. I've got an Idea, can I come picture to you? And I went down to Maidenhead and pitched it to them in my head. It was, guys, I want to do this. And they're going to say, yeah, cool, let's do. But they grilled the sugar out of me.
- [08:35]
A
Well, take us behind the scenes. What kind of grilling did you get?
- [08:38]
B
So it was all around the motivation. And it was. It was at that moment that I realized, am I insulting you by saying that this watch, that is kind of the flagship dive watch, and I'm saying, I can make it better and I'm just a YouTuber who makes watch straps, so what the hell do I know when these guys hire industry heavyweights to create their watches? And so it was a sudden realization. I'm talking to the CEO of a pretty sizable company and telling him that I can build a better watch. And so he wanted to understand that the intentions were good, the motivations were good, and that I wasn't just going to stamp my. I didn't want to just stamp my logo on the dial, which is good because I had renders of watches or I have rendered. Had renders of the idea that I wanted to do. But ultimately they thought, yeah, this sounds great.
- [09:28]
A
Kind of similar, obviously, it was many years ago that we first got involved with Christopher Ward for our limited edition. And the design process was between initially, Mike Frantz, the CEO, myself, Dave, and I think it was William and Adrian. And between us all, over the course of a number of months. We never did the trip because we're cheap Scottish people. We didn't want to travel, but we did it all over Zoom. And we came up with an idea. They kind of said, yeah, okay, but in the real world, physics dictates we can't produce this, we can't do this, we can't do that. A little bit like you said, with the different coloured looms, you have to play within the confines of whatever the design processes they've got and the machinery they've got available. And it was back and forward, even down to, as I say, the joke about speaking to Roger Smith and saying, if you had the chance, what would you do with this, with that and getting things together. So it was a long, drawn out process. And there are brands out there. You must get hundreds of emails per week. We get probably hundreds of emails per month with brands saying, we want to do a collab, we can put a Scottish flag on the front of it, we can change the bezel, we can have a tartan strap and it's just to make money. Whereas when we do a limited edition, it's with somebody we know, it's somebody we respect, somebody we've maybe worked with in the past. We've seen, we've managed to build a baseline of what they do, how they take things forward, and next month they won't have another limited edition out with somebody else where they've just changed the bezel or the dial color. And I think that's the same with your one. Although you have drawn a little bit of fire in the community.
- [10:50]
B
Oh, really? Who's upset? I mean, it's not new me upsetting people. I feel I do that quite often.
- [10:58]
A
It's kind of your mo. But no, there's been positive and there has been negative stuff and we are the same. When we do a limited edition, we get comments, feedback. It could be on YouTube, it could be Instagram, could be emails saying, I can't believe you've done this, this is terrible. What are you doing? As if people have ownership of you or have ownership of the brand and the release that's coming out. But what's it been like from your side? Because this is the first time you've been on the other side of the desk.
- [11:21]
B
Yeah, it's been very interesting. I'd say the response that I've seen, I'd say 90% is positive. There's been a few grumbles around sizing, around pricing, around availability, around branding that people like the watch but they don't want the branding on it. People think it should have been a 39 millimeter watch rather than 41. It should have been in steel rather than titanium. And it's very interesting being on the other side of that. I should say a bit of a shout out to. The comments on my main video about the watch have been outrageously nice. Like it's. YouTube can be such a pessimistic, negative, grumpy area. And it's amazing to feel the support from the community, especially those who have followed my journey of making videos in my kitchen when I used to live in London, just on my iPhone propped up on a chair in the kitchen, to now launching a watch. It's really cool having people follow that journey, but it's funny being on the other side of the fence, being the watch release as opposed to the person critiquing the watch release. Because when people say I should have been 39 millimeters, I want it to be 41 millimeters. And so it's. It's funny being on that side and it's funny receiving those. I don't see them as criticisms. It's just an opinion. And I get it. I would like the Speedmaster Professional to be as slim, but be automatic. Well, some things aren't as simple as that. And Christopher Ward wouldn't be able to create a limited edition version. They wouldn't be able to create a 39 millimeter version of a limited edition 41 millimeter watch because the investment in R and D to create, the tooling to create that case, you just wouldn't get that, that money back for the investment in the R D. So there are limitations on what you can do to the watch without resulting in it being hugely expensive. So it's. It, it is fun, but I feel like the. There will always be people grumbling about, about what you do. I've loved the process. I was mega anxious when it went live because I realized that this thing that I love has been built in an echo chamber. All the Bark and Jack team, there's two of us, me and Jared loved what we created, but of course we did, because it's ours. It's our creation. The Christopher Ward people love their side of their input on creating this watch. And so we've been sat in this room saying, oh, this, this thing's great. We absolutely love it. Well, of course we do, because we, we made it good in our eyes. But now suddenly we've shown it to the world and we're breaking out of the echo chamber and now we're, we're hearing what other people think. And I found that I found. Vulnerable. No, I felt exposed to. I don't, I don't know what the word is. It was just an interesting response to suddenly that watch going live and realizing, oh, shit, we're no longer in our echo chamber. We're out in the public now.
- [14:27]
A
How did you find it? This is your first one. And I remember when the first one that we put together was with Swatch and it was different.
- [14:34]
B
Was that the one where it was like a big, big image and you could choose what, what part of the image you wanted.
- [14:38]
A
On the dial, you had something like say, Christmas wrapping paper or wallpaper. And it was a design that would move around and you could, on your phone, on your tablet, on your computer, you could take the background, pinch it, scroll it, rotate it until it sat with a template of a watch over the top. Transparent. You looked at it. That's the way I want it. And then you would almost cookie cutter it, and that would be the watch. It would print the strap and the dial, and obviously it was translucent. So the full thing was the way you wanted it. The problem we had was it was our first watch. We put our heart and soul into everything was. It was as if it was going to be your first thing. My previous history is I used to be in publishing. In the first magazine I made, I put my heart and soul into that issue one, thinking, this is it. That's the way you look at your first book or whatever is you do the first one. You put so much in. Once you've done it a few times, you realize, ah, this is, this is quite easy. We can kind of move forward a little bit quicker. But I was so precious about it that I wondered because of, obviously you've talked in the past about ADHD and other things like that. How did you deal with the sign off? How did you get it over the line?
- [15:40]
B
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's an interesting point because it is one of those things that you can forever tweak. I used to work in the music industry at a recording studio and it's. When do you say that that mix is done? When do you say that that master is complete? Because you wake up the next morning, you think, oh, the hi hat should be a little bit more crispy or the guitars need to be a bit further apart. And. But you just have to say by this date, this is my time frame and that's when it's going to be finished. With Chris Ford, I would actually say it was. It was quite easy to get stuff signed off because when these guys hire people, they don't mess around. They've got some really big heavyweights from the watch industry working for them. And when I showed them the render of the ingredients of what we wanted in the dial, they took it and made it good. They got everything balanced, everything in the right place. The font's the right height, the loom plots the right thickness. And so I feel like there must be, I call it magic, but there must be some sort of ratio between how thick a minute track should be on the outside versus the size of the font versus the size of the logo. And they got it right. There was an element of, I think we should do this, I think we should do that versus them wanting something different.
- [17:01]
A
Was there anything you suggested that they put their hands up and said, that's not feasible at all?
- [17:06]
B
There was. Annoyingly, when I got the prototype in hand, I ended up agreeing with them. So I wanted them to remove the trident on the counterbalance of the seconds hand and have a circular dot counterbalance because I thought that'd be cleaner, it'd be a bit more utilitarian. And they said, actually, that's, that's part of our branding. All of our dive watches have the Trident because it's. It's part of the thing. And it was an interesting experience being someone who makes their own products and designs their own products and I do what I want to do. If I have an idea, we do it and there isn't. I don't have to get sign off from someone. It's game on, we get on with it. So it was interesting then, going back to the state of having to convince someone else that this is a good idea. But with the Trident, they said, no, this is part of our branding, this is something that we need to keep fine. And when I actually got the watch in hand, I now think that actually, from a design point of view, the Trident is a better idea, regardless of the branding, because it's such a light, simple. It doesn't take up much space on the dial and so our Trident's black against a black dial and so it really doesn't take up much real estate of the dial versus a dot of the similar size. I feel like that would have been quite. I don't know, it would have just taken up a lot of space. So that was one of the things that they got right. I also. The original designs had little details of orange that were kind of inspired by the Porsche design chronographs and the old Ploprofs from Omega. I love the orange minute hands or the orange touches. And they mocked up a version of this watch of orange details and they also mocked up a monochrome version and I thought, oh, it looks quite nice and monochrome, even though that's arguably significantly more boring. It just looked clean.
- [18:55]
A
I like the way they did that because they didn't tell your idea was shit. They let you come to that, they led you to the trough and the horse drank from it.
- [19:04]
B
There was a lot of that.
- [19:05]
A
There was a lot of that. How long did the process take, start to finish, from you dropping them a message saying, I'd be interested in helping you make this good? To when it actually finally became available,
- [19:14]
B
I'd say it was. I don't remember dates very well. I'd say it was. It was close to 18 months from the point of that was 18 months from when I visited them down in Maidenhead. So it would have been a month or so before then what actually pitched the idea. But yeah, 18 months since. Since going to Maidenhead to get the ideas down on paper to share that there's a lot of back and forth around. It should be this, should be that. We should have this color loom. It should be the spacing. What's. If this is the dream version of the watch, let's create the dream version as a mock up and then work backwards. Because we don't want to increase the price. We have increased the price a little bit.
- [19:52]
A
What is the reason for the price increase?
- [19:55]
B
It's mainly one, the cost of the strap that's added on and it's simply the R and D of the dial and the lume plots. Because we've got mixed color loom, each lume color has its own brightness and its own longevity of shine. And because we've got multicolored loom, we had to get the guys to create. So the version that I've gotten is a prototype and the green doesn't last as long as the blue. And so we needed to fix that. And that took quite a bit of time to create our own concoction of, of the green lume and then the creation of the dial because it's a whole new dial, it was a matter of, right, we're going to use this dial from this watch. Going to use these lume plots from this watch. I've got a video that I'm recording today, actually that talks through the R and D process of it because you have to do whole new machining, new jigs, new processes and that just because it's a limited edition watch, that just increases the price. But one of the focuses was we didn't want to vary not very. We don't want to stray too far from the original price because that's part of their charm, isn't it? Christopher Ward? You get an insane amount of watch for the money. And we wanted to stick to that. One of the ideas was I wanted to increase the size of the bezel. So the bezel has this kind of inner ring that's a fixed inner ring. And I thought, let's remove that fixed inner ring, that titanium ring and increase the ceramic bezel. Yeah, we could do. But if we're going to do that on limited edition watch, then that would just result in a whole whole new manufacturing process and tooling and that would just increase the price massively. We could have done it out of grade 5 titanium rather than grade 2 titanium, but again, that would just increase the price. So what's the actual knock on benefit of that? Is it just design or what?
- [21:40]
A
It's great and it's similar to what I found out when we've done our limited edition with different brands. When they produce a watch, say for instance, the one I'm wearing just now, that's the C63 Sealander, I believe. My memory is terrible. They produce thousands upon thousands of these different iterations, colors, dials, etc. But each of them, they're probably ordering 1,000 dials in this color, in that color. When we turn in and we say, well, we're going to be doing 69 pieces, they still have to put in the same work behind the scenes. They still have to create order quantities, they have to order. And it's like if you buy something in bulk, it's always cheaper. If you're on ebay, if you're on Amazon, you buy one of, you buy 100 of, you buy a thousand of the price changes, but the research and development is pretty much the same, but the tooling and everything changes. Obviously the price goes up a little bit. That's what we were told that that kind of marries in with what you're telling us there. But what has the reception been like then? What have your followers, people that drop you emails, what have they been saying about it?
- [22:31]
B
It's been really nice. There's been. There's been a huge amount of support from it. The price in the US is a bit of a sticking point and that's because the price of the. I think it's about 20% more expensive in the US than the price of the normal C60, and that's because Christopher Ward are sucking up the tariffs themselves and so they're making a massive cut on the. Sorry, a massive, not massive loss. They've reduced their profit on the normal C60. But again, coming back to economy of scale, they're able to do that because they're going to sell thousands of those and so they can spread the cost. It's not. We're taking a huge cut on this one product, we're just going to make a little bit less across these thousands. Whereas with this limited edition, they just can't justify that because they're not going to be able to get that R and D return back on it. So that's, that's a bit of a shame, but that's nothing we can't influence.
- [23:26]
A
The only negatives I've seen is like you say, the sizing of it, the price point. We've explained that and a few people said it's too similar to the existing one that's out just now.
- [23:35]
B
Yeah, I can see if someone Just looks at it. I feel like it has so many elements of other watches perhaps, or it just works as a watch that you could assume this must be what the original one is. But when you have them side by side, they are vastly different. And the bezel has just the 10, 20, 30, so on. Whereas our watch has fully graduated bezel multi shaped loom plots. So Triangle at 12, 3, 6, 9 are batons and then you've got circles for the rest and then you've got a minute track, a raised minute track and it's a flat matte dial. So I think it's vastly different. But it's. I guess if someone were to glance at it, they would think, oh, what have you changed? Put them side by side. Yeah, there's a lot that's changed. It's a completely different bezel insert, completely different dial.
- [24:30]
A
My next question for you, because I've been saving up questions. We've not seen this guy on the show for probably a couple of years now. Next question is all the brands that have asked you that have emailed, and not just the randos from far flung places, but the ones that you work with. Have any of those guys fallen out with you or have you had any interesting conversations where they said, hey, why didn't you do something with us?
- [24:48]
B
Oh, yeah, no, I've had some interesting DMs from them saying, hey, congrats on what you've done. Let's talk. Which is really fun.
- [24:58]
A
The floodgates have been opened.
- [24:59]
B
Yes, yes. And it's been a really fun project. Yeah. So I'll be excited to do it again. But we're not gonna, this isn't gonna be a monthly thing. If we could to a year maximum, maybe just one a year. My out and out passion is making videos and that's my, my number one favorite job. But it is fun creating stuff.
- [25:23]
A
It is as. And we are the same as you. I think the maximum we've ever done is two, potentially maybe three in one year. But we space them out. And the thing is, we don't want to be doing what Hodinkee did maybe three years ago, where every month there was a limited edition. And it got to the point where people weren't buying this one because they knew another one belong and maybe they wanted that one better. And even with all the free money it was kicking around during the pandemic and slightly afterwards, people are still careful. They don't want to buy, buy, buy all the time. And that's what we've done. If we do for Instance, we've been doing Spinnaker watches, one a year for the past three years. They're around about the same time of the year. We've done a couple with, well, nearly like the cow the bag there about what we're up to, but we've done a couple with some other brands. And there's always a conversation going on. Unfortunately, sometimes the conversations go on so long that the brand we're speaking to almost goes out of business. That's only happened once, but you're right, two a year spaced out is pretty decent. But let's talk about some other things. We've covered the watch, we've done the plug in for that. That's the. The bills paid. That's like you coming on the chat show to plug your new book or your new movie. What else has been happening over the last year where you've been going? What's been happening? You get back in editing. How's that been?
- [26:29]
B
Yeah, I've missed editing. I realized the problem with editing is that it's very easy to become a bottleneck. It's very easy. I always want to increase the amount of videos that I do because there's just so much to talk about. There's so much going on. And in my head I thought, well, if I'm taking too long to edit, if that's a bottleneck, then let's get an editor. But that's. I feel like that's a chef getting someone else to cook. But that's why I started doing this job, is because I like creating. And I feel like although setting up the shots and pressing record on camera is creative, I feel like there's something about editing that I feel like it just brings everything to life.
- [27:10]
A
So you've written the music and you want to perform the songs?
- [27:13]
B
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a really good idea of it is. Yeah. I stopped myself from performing, whereas I've written a song and now I've got back to performing.
- [27:22]
A
It's similar to what we do because we put out, as I mentioned, two podcasts a week, so they're an hour long in audio. One of those generally the one that comes out on a Thursday, although this will be different because this is quite a visual medium for what we're talking about today. I record, edit the podcast, I send it to our video guy and I tell him to use the audio as the baseline for editing the video because there's some jokes in there that I edit in a certain way. When they land, some of them obviously get cut out because they're not, they're not politically correct enough. But then Gav, our video guy, he will take what I have produced and he will move it into the visual medium. And it generally works. But I'm pretty sure if I just sent him all the stuff unedited without that track, without the audio to work from, it would come back in a way that I didn't like.
- [28:04]
B
Yes, yeah. And I often find that is the creative part of editing starts with the writing of the video and, and when you hand the video over to someone else to, to be edited, you want them to be creative. And so it's, it kind of creates this bit of a dissonance perhaps between what you have in your head as the initial idea to what then comes out at the end. So it's, it's fun being creative from, from that angle again and, and getting outside. The main video for this, this watch was, was shot in Glencoe. Really good fun getting out and about and getting destroyed by the Scottish weather with their sideways, sideways rain slash snow that feels like you're just being sandblasted.
- [28:50]
A
Bill, you're the guy that decided to move from England.
- [28:52]
B
Yeah. No mate, I love up here. It's fantastic.
- [28:56]
A
We had a chat before hitting record and I said, this has been a crazy year. There's been so much happening in my life. And you messaged me maybe eight months ago saying, hey, have you got a new car? My son's just seen this orange vehicle going past. Is that you? And I was like, yeah, it is. We need a catch up. And then we never had that catch up. So tell us the last 12 months what you've been up to.
- [29:16]
B
It blows my mind that it's been that long since what we've been able to just, just building stuff. We've got a whole lot of products coming out. And it's interesting the similar R and D challenges around building a watch as we have with R and D challenges of building straps and hardware. So we've got three new straps in the pipeline, all with new hardware and it's fun. Insanely costly getting prototypes done and playing around with that stuff. But it's really interesting and that's one of the powerful sides of the business of having Gerard on board, who's an ex engineer from Rolls Royce when he does his technical drawings of a buckle versus an engine, it's pretty handy. So yeah, we've just been building stuff and making content. Done a couple of jobs with Porsche which has been really fun that are going to come out soon.
- [30:18]
A
Are we talking the Watch company or the car company.
- [30:21]
B
I get confused between the two because every time I go out there to talk about watches, they always have a car for me to drive, which I'm very happy. The last one was actually, I think both times were a Targa. 992 Targa. But yeah, they're very fun though. I feel like my polestar off the line is still quicker. I could just be driving it wrong. That little smirk says, no, you probably just don't know how to drive a Porsche.
- [30:48]
A
Listen, we had the CEO of Formula E on the show maybe a couple of weeks ago now and he was explaining the move in technology with electric vehicles over the past 10 years and it is insane how quick they are off the line. And most of them, even the new BYDs, they're really putting in the lap times at Nurburgring. So, yeah, yeah, I don't know how long the dinosaur burning gas guzzlers that we own have got left, but hopefully a little bit longer.
- [31:13]
B
They sound so much better though. The noise of a Porsche engine. No, it's proper hot and it's addictive. Revving that thing is like a drug. I need one.
- [31:26]
A
Yeah, it's all good fun. So what's been happening with the channel? How have you seen things? We had Andrew Morgan on quite recently. It's all the old guards are coming back for a chat and he was saying there's been this terrible downturn in the YouTube count and this, that and the other. Have you seen that kind of thing or are you flying high?
- [31:41]
B
Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like the algorithm changes a lot quicker now. I feel like there would be slow. I felt like in the past it was a massive shit that would slowly transition and I felt like there was a quick move from long form content to suddenly people want snap shot videos, like really quick overviews of something. So suddenly people were going from, I used to make 13, 14 minute long videos and then I felt like everyone was going down to six, seven minute videos. Try and get people back up. YouTube were making it so that if you, if your video was over eight minutes long, you could add extra adverts in, then you'd get more money. But now everyone wants longer form videos and I feel like these changes are happening so quickly and it's probably with, with the, the interruption of things like TikTok and Instagram reels, where if you want short form, you go over there and now you purposely go to YouTube for longer form content. But no, the channel's going well. I mean, it doesn't grow that quickly because I only do three, four videos a month and that's my own stupid fault of having a busy life.
- [32:52]
A
Having a busy life's a good thing. So what else are you getting up to then?
- [32:56]
B
Adventures. Climbing. Exploring outside. Yeah, exploring Scotland. It's quite nice.
- [33:03]
A
You're getting used to this whole outdoor stuff.
- [33:05]
B
I love it. I've always been outdoorsy. Living in London was the weird part for me. I grew up in countryside. Outdoorsy stuff was always my norm and that's what it's. Yeah, that's what it's like here.
- [33:18]
A
And how did you like last year? Because you were over in Dubai kicking around, doing this, that and the other. What were your adventures like last year? Because this is a catch up. Not just for me, it's for the people listening and watching. Because it has genuinely been so long since I've seen you. I've got all these questions. Just pent up and ready to rock.
- [33:35]
B
Yeah, I don't know. My challenge is. And interestingly, this is connected to adhd. So some people aren't good with spatial awareness and so they might look at a parking space, for example, and think, oh, I can get in that. And they absolutely can't get in there.
- [33:51]
A
You've met my wife.
- [33:53]
B
Yeah. So some people have spatial awareness issues, People with ADHD have time awareness issues. They can't picture the future, they don't understand how long something takes. Everything for someone with ADHD is a five minute task. I was late coming on here and it was like, oh, I can set my camera up in five minutes. No, I've got to move the camera from over there, create the setup here, get the tripod with the laptop on, move the lighting, turn on the lights, get my coffee. So everything for an ADHD person is five minutes, equally looking back in time. So you telling me that we haven't spoken for eight months blows my mind. It feels like I spoke to you last week.
- [34:31]
A
I think the last time we spent any proper time together was with Theo XIWC in Glasgow, December 2024.
- [34:39]
B
That's wild. That's absolutely. See again, that feels like that was only a couple of months ago, which is nuts. Can we. Can I throw a thing at you?
- [34:47]
A
Depends how heavy it is.
- [34:49]
B
Are you familiar with all these watch brands that are potentially up for sale, like Zenith, jlc, Bomber Mercy has just been sold. Oh, there was one more. Oh, yeah, that was it. The high end Breguet. So it's rumored that all of these brands are up for sale. Where the hell would JLC go? I can't imagine JLC leaving Richemont.
- [35:11]
A
I don't know the history of jlc, as in when they became part of Richemont. And that is a terrible thing to say. I'm going to lean into Long Covid for the answer, but I remember me and you went on an adventure to JJLC back in 2019.
- [35:25]
B
Yes, we did. Yeah.
- [35:26]
A
And it was awesome. It was br. Well, apart from the fact the day before you didn't realize that we were actually traveling and forgot the days and we're going to turn up a day late and I fixed that for you. But no, we went across there were treated extremely well. Got to find out the history. Got to see some of the machines that taken out the dungeon that were hundreds of years old. Got to meet a lady who in her own spare time had actually learned how to use some of these machines to produce the watches and the dials and things. That was a huge education right at the beginning of the podcast. We're maybe six months in, but it's a brand that I like. I think it's faltered. I don't know whose responsibility or whose fault it is, but over the last maybe three years, especially seeing them at Watches and Wonders, they've had less of a voice each year. And even last year I don't remember what they did. Whereas they were doing Gyro Tourbillons, they were doing this, that and the other crazy complications. They had a fantastic stand. I think it was back in Sihh and then it got a little bit smaller and then obviously it Watches and Wonders, it gets smaller again. Smaller again. So I don't know what the story is with them.
- [36:25]
B
I really struggle with it. That factory visit that we went on I think still remains to be my favorite. Beyond talking to Roger Smith and having one on one time with him at his workshop, I thought that's very different. But yeah, that factory visit was amazing. The history that they've kept going is absolutely incredible. I feel quite sad about JLC. With Zenith, I get it. With Barmer Mercier, I get it.
- [36:50]
A
What's your thoughts on Zenith? Because we've talked on the show and we don't want to be predictors of bad news or anything, but we'd actually said that the latest iterations that come out since Julian had moved on to Tag and then he'd moved on and currently is with Hublot. Zenith had almost lost its way and the releases over maybe the last couple of years, there's nothing that really appealed. And we said even the blue releases last year didn't really stand out. Whereas Hublot were going crazy. Even tag Tag are like at the top of their game of what they're up to. But Zenith not really doing much.
- [37:21]
B
Yeah, I felt it was really telling at last year's Watch of the Wonders when they bought out these three blue watches. And this is all you've got. This is. This screams we're in the shit. I mean LVMH have come out and said that that Zenith isn't up for sale but I feel like it's one of those things of that story doesn't get out into the public for nothing. There's no smoke without fire, as they say. But yeah, when I saw that those three blue watches were the releases for that year or were the releases that they were showing and what it's celebrating, I thought, ah shit, you guys are.
- [37:58]
A
Did you go to Geneva watch days last year?
- [38:01]
B
I did. I had food poisoning. So yes I went but I spent it in my hotel.
- [38:05]
A
We got invited to look at the releases for that fair. It was terrible to see because they had the smallest little room. They had a collaboration with a European furniture company that Dave knows all about. They do really high end expensive stuff and they produced these little, I don't know, little gizmos, little giveaways because all they'd really done that I could tell was change the color of certain parts of the watch to the pantone color that this furniture company were using because
- [38:32]
B
they have an insanely good history. They have an insanely good product as well. I don't like the star counterweights that they always have all the stars and the dials, but they've got some absolutely stunning and fantastically performing products. But again, JLC for this, for the same thing. I absolutely love JLC and I liked that they didn't jump on trends. I liked that they, they were staying true to their, their product line and they kind of just stuck with that and I thought, oh, they must be fine if that's what they're able to do. But then that's. I guess that's kind of resulted in no, maybe they're not fine. I don't know if these watch brands being up for sale has been announced or whether it's just rumoured. But these rumours have to come from somewhere.
- [39:22]
A
They're the same rumours that we've heard and it is tricky because we heard the rumours ahead of, for instance, Gerard Perregaux going out in their own Kering Group offloading management buyout. And there was talk of JLC doing a similar Thing, but this is the knock on effect of riding so high during COVID And some brands, not these ones we're talking about in particular, but some brands thinking that it was going to continue forever or they were being opportunistic, they were thinking, well, let's make, hey, well, the sun shines just now. Who cares what happens? Because I might not be here in a couple of years time.
- [39:56]
B
Yeah, that's true. And there's rumors about manufacturers only being open three days a week now or two days a week because they have so little business. And this isn't the brands, this is the guys who make the products for the brands. If someone was to buy JLC and make it its own independent again, that would be a very strong proposition. That would be a very interesting thing to watch. Proper in house, proper quality. That would be really smart to see.
- [40:25]
A
There's nothing really stopping GLC being as big and bold and well respected in the community and the public at large as Cartier and ap. Because they've got the history. They were the watchmaker's watchmaker, they made the watch movements for AP and the Jumbo and things like that until very recently. So nothing's really stopping them. And I think the problem is, and we've said this in the show, we said up at Bon Mercier, you hear about them for one day and one day only during Watches and Wonders, when they release something and then nothing, we never hear about it, we never see them on wrist, we never see any great campaigns, there's no marketing. And what I've realized in the last six years doing the podcast is the brands that talk all the time, even if it's just a new brand ambassador or it's limited edition or they're doing a charitable event, when that news filters out to everybody, it stays in the consciousness. Which means when me or you or somebody watching or listening at home has got some spare cash and they're looking to buy a new watch because they can every month, then that brand is going to be at the forefront. It's like Coca Cola. Nobody watches a Coca Cola advert and rushes out and buys a Coke, but the next time they want a drink or they're somewhere, they think about it.
- [41:31]
B
That's such a good point. Whereas all these brands, that. It's certainly the bomb of mercy. I love Bomb of Mercy. I think they do fantastic watches. I love their Riviera stuff. But you're right, I've only ever spoken about them around Watch the Wonders. Apart from that, it just disappears.
- [41:46]
A
Whereas I cannot stop my Emails filling up with TAG information. The folks at Ellen Communications in the UK are phenomenal. Lauren is our contact there and she helps us out when we perhaps get on the wrong bus and go to the wrong place when we're supposed to be meeting people. But yeah, brands like that, they're constantly talking Omega. As much as they've had a hard time from various different people, they're constantly moving the thing forward. They're talking about a new release, they're talking about the Olympics, they're talking about brand ambassador. There's always a sum or Breitling. I mean, obviously you've talked about Breitling in the past. They have been on their A game ever since Kern got involved in things. And that's probably what, eight, nine years ago now.
- [42:22]
B
Yeah. And yeah, Breitling have. Well, they've just had a big investment and it's showing that they are steaming ahead at a time when. When a lot of brands are struggling. So they're in a very, very powerful position. But you're right about tag. There's a lot of chatter. They're everywhere. But again, that costs money. So it is a chicken and egg thing. Like, at what point we could talk about Breitling? Not Breitling, Bremont. At what point do you say we've probably done enough marketing or we haven't done enough marketing? At what point do you say this just isn't working? We should probably stop and change how we're marketing because I feel like that's just what JLC needs to do. The products are absolutely gorgeous, both performance horologically and design wise. They just need to change what eyeballs they get in front of.
- [43:11]
A
Well, tell me, what is the latest changed model or iteration from JLC off the top of your head?
- [43:17]
B
Absolutely no idea.
- [43:18]
A
Yeah, I can't remember either.
- [43:20]
B
Yeah. And I feel like they just change a Reverso. They just do another complication Reverso or another Gyrotopion. But I don't want to see that. I want to see develop the Polaris more, create something worth talking about as opposed to just a. I mean, Armorotics fanboy. And all they do is change the dial color, but they're making cash, so I guess they're doing all right. But, yeah, no, I don't know what they lasted. Jlc.
- [43:47]
A
I can't remember either. And it's been a number of years since we actually got an appointment with them at Watches and Wonders, which was kind of. I was actually thinking about that. We've not actually seen them for A while. Which is a real shame because you mentioned Polaris. Back when I got into the hobby, I was watching Tim Mosso videos and he was talking about his Amvox. I think it was the Amvox 2 that he had. Phenomenal watches, obviously. Well out of production for a number of years. Anything else you want to chat about before we go? Because I think we've got about maybe five minutes left.
- [44:11]
B
No, I just. Sorry it's been so long since we've caught up. I'm crap of time.
- [44:17]
A
Well, have you been dicking around with cars? Obviously there's a bit of a Porsche tie in, but last time we chatted, there was a Land Rover talk. There was this, that and the other.
- [44:25]
B
I wasn't too fussed about the new Land Rover, the new Defender. And we use Harrison's for, for the video in, in Glencoe. It's a nice machine. I, I do really like it. Yes. It's got, it's got faux like plastic panels on it to make it look all rugged where the aluminium panels used to be. But actually it was pretty good and, and we, we went down quite a few closed roads. Is that good to say? We were sensible. We weren't. No one was harmed. But it was impressive to push it on the ice and snow.
- [44:55]
A
I don't know what the trespass laws are like in Scotland, but I think you'd probably be okay. Statute of limitations. I just watched Training Day, the movie from like 2001 with Denzel Washington in it, and he kept saying throughout it, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. And I'm going to use that as my mantra for this year coming.
- [45:11]
B
Yeah, that's good point.
- [45:12]
A
But. Well, we are at the end of a show, but like you say, let's not keep it so long in future. And you've not even been over to the new place yet, so you need to pop over, grab a proper coffee or bring your good coffee with you because obviously that's the other thing that you're known for. If people want to check out this new release, when is it on sale until? How can they find out more about it? How can they buy one?
- [45:31]
B
So the window ends on at 5pm GMT on the 12th of February. You just jump over to Christopher Ward.com and it will be on the front page there. Or just Google Green 15 Christopher Ward and it will come up.
- [45:44]
A
And if you want to find out where you're up to as well as obviously checking out Adrian Barker. BARKING Jack. BARKING Jack. Coffee straps limited edition watches. Funnily enough you can check us out scottishwatches.co.uk, that's where all the show notes, all the cool stuff is. If you want to get in touch, use the there's a contact form I believe on there or info scottishwatches.co.uk. we're on Instagram obviously ottoswatches there and YouTube. If you want to subscribe, leave a comment, let us know what you think. And you were talking about people being nice to you on your own channel. People are generally nice to us unless they catch Dave wearing lipstick.
- [46:15]
B
Oh, why does he wear lipstick?
- [46:17]
A
I don't really know. Can I say that he had a problem with his lips and it was chapstick. It wasn't lipstick. But you know, people comment on YouTube are never wrong.
- [46:28]
B
That's an interesting take.
- [46:30]
A
That is an interesting take and that is how we'll leave it. So thank you for listening and we'll catch you again soon.
- [46:34]
B
Thanks, man. Take care, Sam.