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Scottish Watches Podcast #753 : We Unveil The Secrets of Watchmaking
00:53:03
This episode covers a broad exploration of Montblanc’s watchmaking, in our ongoing mini series, placing a deserved spotlight on their Minerva heritage. The discussion moves from the inverted Unveiled Secret...
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the Scottish Watches podcast. We're here with Simon. He's here for his 1, 2, 3. It's the triple bill. It is. Well, we've actually got another episode coming later in the year, but we're not going to talk about that today because that's in the future and we're here to talk about the present, potentially a little bit the future and a little bit of the past. But speaking of things from the past, Dave's with us as well.
- [00:20]
B
Hello, welcome. Hi. I'm the dinosaur. Although actually I think I am actually older than Simon, but does officially make me a dinosaur. The difference is though, I didn't become extinct. That's probably in my future, but I didn't go out with the rest of the dinosaurs. I'm like the one that survives things. But yes, we are here. And indeed this is the third part of a four parter. So Simon, you should probably say hello. I don't think you need to introduce yourself. I think by now most people know who you are.
- [00:46]
C
So. Good morning, everyone. Morning, Dave. Morning, Ricky. Good to see you again.
- [00:50]
B
That was a short and sweet introduction. I was expecting something else there, but nothing came. Story of my life. But yes. So this episode we, I think are going to be get a little bit into different areas. Not a one fixed subject like we've maybe done on a couple of the previous ones, but we're going to cover a few different areas that Simon is allegedly the expert in. He's definitely more of an expert than myself or Ricky. That is without doubt. So let's. Where should we start? Ricky, where should we start?
- [01:18]
A
We should start by telling people about show notes. That is where you'll find all the links, all the tech spec, all the information in a chronological order about what we're going to speak about in this show. And it's a little bit freeform, as Dave mentioned, so you'll want to be playing along at home. Click. The link to your podcast takes you to our website, a page designated for this episode. And in there, Mizziel will hopefully remember how to spell things and put them in the right order. But hey, you know, 20, 26, we'll see how things progress. Hey, he's been with us for about six years. We'll see if he gets it right this year and probably the wrist check is the next thing to do. Dave, so you're not going to go second? I'm not going to go first. I think Simon's going to take the lead on this one.
- [01:53]
C
Okay. So thank you very much, Ricky. So Today, actually, I should just do a little disclaimer in case my wife is listening to this when it goes out. This isn't actually a new watch within my own collection. It is a lone piece. But as we were sort of talking all things Minerva, and as we said, it's a little bit of a free fall or free form. And the idea, I thought maybe we could explore this piece a little bit more. What I'm actually wearing today is the unveiled secret. So this is actually the third iteration of this piece. We originally launched it three years ago, and we had this sort of crazy idea that wouldn't it be amazing if we actually took the Caliber inverted, it created a sapphire crystal dial so that you could actually see all of the beauty and the workings inside. Many people do look at it and often think it's a skeleton piece. In actual fact, we haven't skeletonized the Caliber. We've simply. I say simply inverted. Of course, if we had turned the Caliber over, obviously time would have started to count backwards. So we added an additional 19 components. That was for the first piece. And the piece that I'm actually wearing today, we've opened it up a little bit more. We have 290 components in the Caliber. And then we added these beautiful sapphire crystal windows around the side of the case. I don't know if the camera will pick this up, which actually then allows you to see that all the workings inside. And I have to say, probably for me, the best window is actually the window that sits at 6 o', clock, because in actual fact, you get this amazing view of the oversized balance wheel beating ever so serenely at 18,000 beats. And again, when we created this piece in the case, it was a little bit like when you think of a beautiful diamond that gets set in a setting, if that setting isn't quite right, if the light can't come in, you. You don't see the beauty here. By raising the Caliber a little bit, adding some additional pillars, by opening up the case with the sapphire crystal, the light floods in and you really get to see all of the finishing, all of the decoration, and all of the beauty of the piece. It's 43 mil case, brushed steel. And then we have our very beautiful solid white gold fluted bezel. And of course, it is a monopusher chronograph. And it comes on a beautiful blue sfomato alligator strap. Coming from our leather manufacturer in Florence.
- [04:23]
B
There is probably the most comprehensive wrist check that we've had in pretty much ever.
- [04:27]
A
I think, in fact, since the boss man was on a number of years ago and did a 14 hour wrist check. Remember that, Simon?
- [04:33]
C
And I was, as I got halfway through, I was thinking, oh God, I'm going into that territory. Am I going to take the crown for the longest wrist check ever? But no, I did try and keep it a little bit shorter for you.
- [04:44]
B
Yes, indeed. You kept it just within the boundaries of someone saying, here's a yellow card, Simon, time to stop. But no, he managed to bring it in within that. And this is a watch that we very luckily got to have a little bit of a hands on when we were over with you in Switzerland. And I agree those little windows on the side really do help open it up. And considering it is a relatively large watch at 43, it's one of the ones that kind of manages to pull itself in a little bit just because the light floods into it and it kind of makes it look much more airy and open. Open than otherwise it maybe would with a solid case.
- [05:15]
C
Absolutely right though. And what it really. And then from, from my side, what I really love about this is you've got this very sort of contemporary feel with the open case, the sapphire crystal. But actually why we did it is we want you to see that beauty. I mean, you guys were both in Minerva not so long ago. You, I mean, remembering that you actually did have a go at doing a little bit of the perlage, the linear graining, if I remember correctly. But actually having that light coming in, you get to see each individual component. The fact that each component is still finished and decorated by hand. I probably should also say when we think about the fact that each caliber is assembled twice, you know, we are one of the few manufacturers that still do that. So the fact that the components. Ah, there you go. You still got it.
- [06:05]
A
It's nearly as shane as our heads.
- [06:07]
C
So I mean, the fact that you guys actually had a go at doing it, you, I mean, you saw yourselves just how challenging and difficult it is. Obviously we, we had the team there and I mean, when you watch Sandra doing the perlage, she actually does it so quickly you think it's one of the kind of the easy, easier types of decoration. But it's not until you actually have a go yourself that you realize just how skilled and how amazing she is at doing it, which is probably the fact that she has been doing it for close to 30 years. So of course we've got the perlage on there, we've got the all of the graining, the Cote de Geneve. And of course one of the elements that we really wanted to highlight when we inverted the calibre was the fact of the famous V bridge that we know that Minerva had patented back in April of 1912. Now, again, no one really knows. Is it the V that stands for Villarre? More likely it's the beautiful Lecom grad, the beautiful valley that sits opposite the watchmakers. And again, it's really one of those elements of the movement that really proves that it has been hand finished and hand decorated.
- [07:15]
B
Simon, you've given us a lot of information there about that watch, about the sapphire sides of it, about, you know, some of the bits that I guess are deeply ingrained into what makes up Minerva and the brand. But here's a question.
- [07:28]
A
When am I going to get to do my wrist check, Dave? Is that the question?
- [07:31]
B
That is not the question, Ricky, but.
- [07:32]
A
The one that comes. Patience, Ricky, patience. We need to get the wrist checks done.
- [07:36]
B
We will.
- [07:37]
A
Right, okay. You come second all the time, Dave. You tell us what you've got and then I'll finish up.
- [07:40]
B
This is the bronze edition with the green bezel and green dial, which was not actually the one that was preordained to be on my wrist. It was going to be the steel with the black, which I think was the original one. But there was a bit of a rush on the originals back in the day, and for the first good four to six months, they were fairly difficult to get your hands on. And by the time mine arrived into the boutique, they also had just taken delivery of this new edition with the bronze case. And I saw it and I thought, me wanty that one. And it didn't originally, I believe, come on this bund. But this was an optional strap, which Simon actually very kindly helped me acquire, along with the bronze deployant clasp with the micro adjust on it as well. But I actually don't wear this a huge amount because it's a fairly large piece, but I really do enjoy wearing it, especially when it's kind of color coded to me. And as most folk know, browns and greens are David's colors. I've even gone as far as to set the date and the time correctly in this, which is a first for David's wrist checks. Well, it's not really a wrist check because it's not actually on my wrist. But, yeah, this is a cool piece. One of the more iconic pieces, I think, within the Montblanc and the modern Montblanc range. Definitely identifiable as something very specifically from that brand. So, yep, loving this piece. I've now got it out. So the likelihood Is I will be wearing this over the coming weeks as well. Finally, Ricky, finally. What are you wearing in your wrist? Okay, no one cares.
- [09:03]
A
Move on. I want to ask about your watch because I like that one. That's one of my faves. I remember when you got that. I remember way, way back. We're talking pre pandemic. Can you believe it's been over six years since things kicked off and we thought we'd never be able to leave our homes, meet up with human beings, stand less than 2 meters apart. Yeah, glory days. They were not. But I remember a meeting. Probably the first time I got involved with Montblanc was 2019, back when Red Bar had a big event in Edinburgh here in Scotland. And I got to check out some of these timepieces and I. I think that was around about the time the watch was just released or it was still quite new. And I was blown away by the way that it worked. Couldn't understand. Obviously back then I had no clue, less of a clue than I have now. But it was just amazing to have these little globes on the dial with the second counter with a day aperture, everything coming together. And I never saw on that button strap. But as you were showing us on video, because obviously we record these shows on video so we can see each other and have a little bit of comedy and mirth in the background at your expense, listeners. But you can always go to the Show Notes to see the screen captures that Miziel puts in, including something rather humorous from a galaxy far, far away. But that on a Bund is incredible. And I'm just thinking, okay, at Christmas time, I'm pretty sure I was going through lots of movies. Indiana Jones, a big firm favourite for anybody that was a kid of the 80s. That would have been his perfect watch.
- [10:20]
B
Yeah, I absolutely agree. This is the kind of explorer type watch. Someone who does a lot of traveling, is out and about, but needs something that will definitely survive a bit of rough and tumble. That is probably one of the best watches you can have on your wrist. It's actually much easier to read than you would give it credit for as well. Yep, there's two globes on there. And to a certain extent, on first glance the dial can look a little bit busy. But actually once you attune to it and you understand what you're looking at, it's pretty simple to actually read off the dial as well. The best bit about it, compared to a lot of watches, the main hands are very legible. You can just tell the time. And let's be honest. Most of us just use our watches to tell the time, and that is what this watch is very good at. You can tell the time at a quick glance. So, yeah, I really enjoy.
- [11:03]
A
I should really wait telling the time with a watch, Dave, that'll never catch on.
- [11:06]
B
No, no, no, it definitely won't catch on. It's terrible.
- [11:08]
A
I'm going to tell you what I've got on the wrist today, and I don't have a Montblanc. I don't know about Minerva yet. Yet. But, you know, that time is getting close. It's been nearly a year since the wedding and the house move and stuff, so the pennies have been getting saved. We'll see what happens this year. But I'm wearing my closest approximation to a classic watch that I own, and that is my Garrick S4A watch got a few years back, and it was super limited, so you cannot get a hold of it. Tough. You just have show notes and find something else that tickles your fancy if you're after a new timepiece on the wrist. But this one here, I got it because it's my color scheme. Dave likes the browns, the orange, the green hues, and not just from his diaper back in the day when he was a little nipper. This here is blue. It has got a nice coloration to the dial. It's got lots of different things that play into Montblanc quite a lot. Rose turning engine machines from the past utilized to create fantastic dials that aren't pressed or stamped or CNC'd. And in the back, it's got a manual wind modified ETA movement. And this one came through the folks at the limited edition Onion Crown. All that good stuff. Very classic, very Roger Smith esque. And obviously we met up with him over in Dubai quite recently. So I thought I would have a look at this one. Pop it on the wrist. And Dave likes to set the time correctly. I like to set the time in the watch so it coincides exactly with the wrist check. Approaching the 1010 position. So that's what I'm wearing today. Dave, where are we going next?
- [12:28]
B
Well, where are we going next? I'm going to get back to the question that I was so rudely interrupted by you desperate to do the wrist check. And Simon, what I'm going to ask you is that watch that we were discussing. Now, lots of things about it have signature marks that you would expect from Minerva and obviously from the greater Montblong kind of family. But tell me, whose genius idea was it to turn the movement Round. And how happy were the watchmakers about that?
- [12:53]
C
Okay, so I can't actually speak on behalf of the watchmakers, but I'm sure that obviously when someone comes up with a new crazy idea, that means they're going to have to rework an existing calibre. They're obviously jumping up and down with joy because it just means that it going to be even more complex than what they had before. But the story actually begins. It's funny, you saying, Ricky, about, you know, that time six, seven years ago, when we weren't allowed to be closer than 2 meters to our friends. Loire, our head of watchmaking, had recently joined us sort of towards the end or just during the pandemic. So obviously we didn't have the manufacturer open at that time yet. He wanted to sort of get himself acquainted with Minerva. I mean, he has this absolute thirst for knowledge. He's someone that, if you know him, knows that he's incredibly passionate about everything he does. So he would visit the manufacturer sort of once or twice a week. He was picking up pieces from the archive. He was then having to take them home to really study them and understand the long heritage of Minerva. He tells his story brilliantly. At the time, his daughter, I think she was only probably about four or five years old. He comes home, he's taken two watches from the manufacturer. He's sitting at his desk. She comes into his study and she literally picks up the watch. She kind of looks at the dial side and is pretty kind of nonplussed by it. She just kind of looks at it and says nothing. But then at that moment, she turns it over, she looks at the back and it was actually a piece with an open case back. And she said, magnifique. And he said this was really that one of those light bulb moments. And he said the wonder that she had on her face, the fact that this smile came out, that she was just transfixed by seeing all of the kind of the detail on the back that he had this idea, he said, at the same time as well, having spoken to different collectors. You know, a lot of people often look at a timepiece. You know what it's like, you give your mate and you watch and they'll look at the dial for a few seconds, and then literally the first thing everyone does is turns it over. Because if you have got that open case back, it's beautiful to see what's happening inside. So he said this was where it all came from. And he just thought that when you look at the beauty, the fact that you know, why was it that Minerva was famous in the first place? It wasn't that they were just creating good quality chronographs. I mean, very much at the kind of at the forefront of chronometry in the early 1900s. It was the fact that they really thought about the architecture. They thought about the beauty of the movement. You know, I mean, you guys saw it when we were in the archive. You know, when you look at some of those early 1900s pocket watches, the calibers were never just designed to work, but there was always this eye on the. On the architecture. Where are the bridges? Are the bridges polished? How is it finished? There was always a certain beauty to it, and he really decided that that's what he wanted to bring to life. And as I say, when we first launched it, it was incredible. People really. You know, I don't ever. You know, I'm not someone that will say we were necessarily the first. We know many, many brands out there, many different watchmakers trying different things, but really, at the time when we looked on the market, there really wasn't any other inverted calibers. Coming back to your question, Dave, yes, The watchmakers, how did they feel about it? Of course, we took the really iconic caliber that we call the 1629, which was itself inspired by the first oversized chronograph calibre that Minerva created for one of his first wristwatches in 1929, which is where the date came from. And the idea of the 1629, it was a little bit smaller. It had been really powering most of our larger chronographs for a number of years. So he took that, turned it upside down. We changed the caliber name. We called it 1626. So a little play on that nine being inverted. And as I say, initially adding an extra 19 components, then as we exploded it, we had to add another 21 components. So we're now at around about 290 components in it. But actually, the watchmakers love the challenge, you know, and the idea of actually having to reverse the gear train, having a movement inverted, but still being able to tell the time correctly, that's probably the one element that really kind of inspires not just our watchmakers, but also our engineers of where can we keep the tradition, but at the same time, push it forward, do something different, do something that's not already out on the market.
- [17:25]
B
And I think that's something that's quite interesting. We know that, for example, in Minerva, you know, even when the movement's hidden away or parts of the movement are Hidden away, the finishing and all the detail that quite easily could be left off because, well, let's be honest, it isn't seen. And the only person that's likely to ever see it is the watchmaker.
- [17:42]
C
But.
- [17:42]
B
But they go that extra mile, I guess, this project is allowing them to, you know, shine in their full glory, because instead of the movement being hidden away in the back, albeit quite often behind a sapphire crystal, sometimes even behind a solid case back, in this case, actually, their work is the signature. It is the face of the watch, so to speak.
- [18:02]
C
And I think that. I mean, for us, that's what it's all about. It's, you know, you can come up with the most amazing design. You can create beautiful dials. You can have interesting case shapes. But actually, what's at the heart of Minerva is the watchmakers, you know, and you guys saw it. We have really no more than 30 people working in Minerva. We've got. I mean, funnily enough, I was there Monday and Tuesday this week, and, you know, and we saw Carla, you know, the lovely lady that not only picked us up from. From the airport when we traveled there, but in actual fact is also a watchmaker. She was working on. On some components. And I took three people with me who'd never been in a watch manufacturer before, and we actually got to the stage where I was having to ask them to leave because we needed to get on and see something else. And one guy, interestingly, had come from the tech world. He'd been with Apple for a number of years. And, I mean, obviously we had quite a few jokes about the watch that he was wearing on his wrist. And one thing or another, he literally, I am. I just hadn't seen anyone just stand in one spot for probably the best part of 10 minutes and was just looking over Carla's shoulder. She was literally, as you say, doing the decoration that no one else sees. She was working on the edge of one of the bridges with the Jensen wood. She was just in a zone. She had a. You know, her headphones in. Was completely oblivious to him standing over her. And he was just there, just transfixed by. Could not believe the amount of detail that was going into one component. And he actually said to me, but the component doesn't actually move, does it? I was like, no, it's just a very tiny bridge that holds two of the wheels in place. And he's like, but this is crazy. He's like, why would you do that? And I'm like, but why not? When you've got the skill when you've got the craftsmanship, when you've got the knowledge, why not put that time, why not put that effort into creating something that is truly unique?
- [19:55]
B
It's like the famous quote, isn't it, of why go to the moon? Because it's there.
- [19:59]
C
Yes, exactly. Exactly that. Perfect.
- [20:01]
A
Not because it's easy, but because it's hard.
- [20:03]
B
Yeah, yeah. Okay. So that covers, you know, that kind of, I guess, ideology behind why you would want to invert the movement. But then another thing that I guess often gets overlooked and is definitely less common when it comes to chronographs, because there are lots of chronographs out there across this price spectrum, across the kind of different levels of complexity as well. But this watch is a monopusher, definitely one of the less seen ways of kind of actuating and deactivating the chronograph. And that's something that is definitely quite common within many of the calibers from Minerva. Why is it that the monopusher is the favoured option over the, I guess, more traditional, two separate pushers?
- [20:43]
C
That is a great question, Dave, and I love the fact that you've just asked it. Now I'm just kind of going through the memory banks to bring the information up. Generally speak. When we look back at. When we think about the early 2000s, so when we were entrusted with Minerva, we obviously started to look back at really those iconic calibers. And there were two that really stood out. First was the 1729, which was the big caliber that I mentioned earlier, which was really their first chronograph specifically designed for a wristwatch. Because obviously, you know well enough that, you know, in the past you would often have calibers that were maybe initially designed for pocket watches. As wristwatches came in, they started to be transferred over. Obviously, Minerva were doing a lot of kind of military pieces around sort of the late 20s, early 30s. What they had also had was a beautiful smaller caliber called a 1320, which was also a specific chronograph caliber for a wristwatch. And in actual fact, just to give you a little bit of, I suppose, a little bit of geeky info, when we think about the 1320 or the 1729, they are actually, they took the idea of the size of the caliber in line to be the first number of a designate. So we think of a line, it's what, approximately 2.2 millimeters? Approximately. So the idea is we looked back at those calibers, we saw that those were really two very, very iconic calibers from Minerva, and we decided we'd do modern versions. So of course we did look and think about two push pieces. We know that during the sort of 1960s, 1970s, there were cases that we have in the archive with two push pieces, but we just wanted to go back to the original. I think there's also a certain elegance when we think about it on the case as well, that, you know, we know if we've got the two push pieces, it tends to be a little bit more sporty. Whereas when we think about the monopush and particularly having the push piece housed inside the crown, you know, for those that are not necessarily, you know, watch connoisseurs, for a lot of people it just looks like a normal wristwatch that you've got a crown, you know that yes, there's some things happening on the dial, but you don't necessarily know what, what's happening. So there's really a certain elegance and a certain style to it that gives. It means that actually you can have a beautiful chronograph wrist wristwatch, but it's not necessarily looking like you've left something on after the weekend if you're wearing it with a suit or something a little bit smarter.
- [23:14]
B
And I'm glad you kind of mentioned that there because I was also going to bring up the fact that it's not just a monopusher, but it's a monopusher that's integrated into the crown, which, as you mentioned, absolutely makes it look, for all intents and purposes like a regular time only watch, because it's so neatly kind of integrated in there. Sometimes when you see a monopusher in my eyes, it throws me off balance because you've got one pusher and you're like, where's the other pusher? Because it kind of loses its symmetry with it in the crown. It just kind of keeps it all there. As much as a crown on one side and not on the other, is lacking in symmetry. To a certain extent, you expect the crown to be there as a wristwatch. Therefore integrating in there is a very clever way of disguising it and cleaning the kind of aesthetic of the case and crown up.
- [23:56]
A
So why are you guys so humble about what you do? Because when we talk to collectors or we're at events, we're doing this, that. And the other people come up and they talk about recent episodes, they talk about standout episodes. There are the top three, the top five, there are the tier system when it comes to the 750ish episodes I think we've done so far. And when we speak about Minerva or Montblanc. And we mention, oh, they removed all the oxygen from this. People just shake their heads and go back. But, but why, why don't we know about this? When we talk about activating chronograph functions via the front of the watch, not the side of the watch, people are like, we don't know about this. Why are you guys so humble? You should be shooting this from the rooftops.
- [24:35]
C
Again, it's. You're not wrong. In one set. We do shout about it. I would say the biggest, biggest challenge that we have is when we think about specifically the Minerva pieces. You know, we are literally only producing in the very low hundreds each year. We also are in this amazing position that we've got these incredibly loyal collectors. So some of those collectors came to us via the writing instruments. So they were already collecting our limited edition writing instruments. Then when we were entrusted with Minerva, they were like, amazing. And again, we know that a lot of watch collectors are pen collectors. Pen collectors are watch collectors. There's a really beautiful synergy between those two wells. So we're in this amazing position that actually we've got this, this group of collectors that each year when we launch, you know, you know that we do probably two or three pieces in Minerva, the limitations are always going to be around the 80s to the 100. You know, it doesn't mean that we have those hundred pieces ready to deliver there. And then, you know, the. The watchmakers need the next 12 months to actually create them all. But in actual fact, we leave often whether it's watches and wonders, whether it's local events that we do around the world, but we sort of leave those events pretty much with the pre orders for everything going forward. And again, hopefully not kind of saying something I probably shouldn't, but I mean, going forward, we are looking at the moment to have a certain number of boutiques internally that will be kind of specialist Minerva boutiques. So pretty much picking up on exactly what you just said. Collectors do say, why can't I see them? I want to see it more. I want to try it on. I want to experience the world of Minerva. We are looking at a small program where we're actually going to be able to put some Minerva pieces in boutiques. But the trouble is we just don't have that many pieces because we keep selling them, which is a great position.
- [26:28]
A
What a terrible thing to happen, Simon.
- [26:30]
C
But it's such a tough position to be. You don't know how tough it is, but it, but it is that element that we've Got these amazing guys that. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily use the word obsessed, but I don't know if I can't remember if I mentioned Hughes before. We recently had a amazing collector from, I think I can say from the Czech Republic. Obviously, I can't mention any names. He's been with Montblanc for a number of years. Buys writing, loves timepieces. I mean, huge, huge watch collector. And his grandchildren actually asked him not so long ago, why does he buy watches. You know, you know how it is. Young kids are great because up to a certain age no one's told or taught them not to ask why. So, you know, he was there in his living room. Great kids, his kids and the grandkids around. He's got one of his watches. I was like, you know, granddad, what's this watch? Why. Why'd you have a. What? Why do you have to have more than one watch? What is all this? So he had this amazing idea. He literally decided that in the summer when they normally kind of go on holiday together, he's also funny enough into cars as well. So he literally packed up his two of two of his good cars, as it were. They travel across Europe. He has arranged for, with Lauren that he could visit the manufacturer. So they arrive in the morning in Villarre. Exactly where. Where you've been. He takes the kids and the grandkids on a tour around the manufacturer. He's showing the kids, he's literally leading it. He doesn't want someone to necessarily share what you would normally have on a tour, but he just wanted to show certain things. Funnily enough, he obviously comes from an engineering background as well. So again, he could really explain the sort of, the technicalities and everything. And then what we did, we just thought this was absolutely amazing. We love the idea of sharing these stories with the younger generations as well. And there is an amazing little restaurant that sort of sits in between Neuchatel and Villeray that does the most amazing fondue. And we arranged for them to organize the lunch. So the woods that you saw from the penthouse, just along from Sandra's farm, they actually went into the woods, the fondue got delivered and they actually sat and had a fondue lunch in the woods, literally a stone's throw from the manufacturer. And then after that they traveled to Geneva. They spent a couple of days in Geneva and then drove back to the Czech Republic.
- [29:01]
A
That sounds like a made up story, but knowing you, it's probably 100%. It's actually probably downplayed.
- [29:07]
C
Yeah, I mean, I can't, I mean, I can't share with you kind of the amount of pieces that the client has and just how much of a fan he is. But I mean, he did. I think you mentioned it a little while that, you know, we had that beautiful trilogy for around the world in 80 days. He is one of the owners of that particular trilogy. So, yes, he is an amazing guy. I mean, his whole family, we know them very well. But yeah, we just thought that was a nice way of doing it. The fact that if he wants to come to us, then we need to also do something for him. And. Yeah, so we arranged for a little fondue in the, in the forest, you know, beautiful summer's day in Villarre. I mean, that's, that's watchmaking.
- [29:47]
B
I think ultimately people forget that, you know. Yes. At the end of the day, I guess watch brands are companies that are, you know, making things that they would like to ideally sell to clients. But it's such a small community and it's such a specialist area that it's not nearly as transactional as say, buying a phone. And the high street is where they make millions and millions of them and everyone has one. Watches are an area where it's much more of a two way street between the clients themselves buying things and the brands actually designing and making things. It isn't just global economies of, yes, let's make millions and hopefully we sell them all. It's a very different narrative.
- [30:24]
C
And I think for us, the other side of it as well is the fact that when we take collectors to Minerva, the watchmakers love to see the collectors, you know, because that's also, I think for them is obviously, you know, I mean, you know what it's like. They're sitting there, you know, if you think for, for a chronograph caliber, that's the best part of a, of a kind of a week to seven days to just assemble that piece. So if you think about it, you've assembled it, you disassemble it, you final finish, decorate, you reassemble it. You know, a chronograph could be anywhere from kind of four to six weeks in the making. And that's only once the components have been created. And that's just for the caliber. That's without the case, that's without the dial and everything else, you know, and the, and these guys are incredible because they're working there every day. They're producing these very limited numbers, but I think for them as well to meet the collectors who are buying it, to sort of See their passion and their pleasure in owning the watch. I mean, I think for them as well, that can be also super rewarding as well, that you're not just making something that disappears into the ether. You really have this connection. And I think that's very much what we, we do at Minerva is there's really this element of whether it's Laurent, whether it's myself, whether it's some of the other guys who know the collectors and we take them there for, for a trip, or the fact that some collectors just literally reach out and say, look, I've just bought this watch. I really want to see where it was made. Can I? You know, and we open the doors and we really want to have that, that connection with the people that are purchasing them, but also they buy them because they love them, you know, And I think probably coming back to what you said, Ricky, that, you know, we are necessarily as well known as we could be. I think the Minerva story is very much known amongst this kind of the connoisseurs, the collecting world. It's not necessarily one of the names that maybe trips off the tongue for your average guy who, you know, is just getting into watches. But again, it's. It is something that is very special. The fact that you can still buy something today that's really, really made by people, not machines.
- [32:24]
A
Something to point out here, Montblanc, Minerva, the way you guys do things. And this is a two pronged chat we're about to have here, because recently I was on a live stream talking about watches. Me and Dave do this thing in a Sunday with casual watch reviews. Casual watch talk. It's a Sunday social. We go on, we just generally talk about things. There's no real agenda. And one of the things that was mentioned was talking about, do you ever do something within the watch media sphere that makes you think more of a company? For instance, one of the people in the chat said, listen, when you get invited to do a factory tour, does that not then make you say nice things about the company? Because they were very nice to you, they invited you out, they showed you behind the scenes. You got some priority access. And I thought about this before I answered it. And my reply was actually the opposite of what the questioner was probably thinking. And that is when we get invited to different places to look behind the curtain to see what the wizard of Oz is actually doing there. Well, if we go and see one manufacturer and we see what they do, and then we go and see another, and then we go and see the tenth, if that tenth One doesn't marry up to the first, the second or the third, we're going to say negative things. We're going to have a detrimental outlook in what they do. And one of the comments that we brought up was when we went to Minerva, we have been to a ton of places where they actually build watches and Minerva was one of the top two to three. I'm not going to say exactly if it's 1, 2 or 3 because we don't want to upset other people, but it was in the top two, I would say, of every place we've been to. So that is just a commendation I wanted to hand on. And the second part of that little story is you guys are part of a conglomerate. You have got the funding behind you, you have got the shoulders that you can rest on, so you can do exceptionally low runs of things and not worry that you're going to bankrupt yourself creating such a small volumes of timepieces. Or the other thing is doing crazy work that other companies just wouldn't have the time, the dedication, the staff or the experience to do. You've got that sandpit to play in and produce the best of the best. So that has to be commended as well.
- [34:23]
C
Thanks, Ricky. I mean, obviously I'll take it that we are in the top two. So I'll just kind of say that I'd like to think we're number one, but yeah, thank you for that. No, that's a really nice thing that you said and I think, think that's also, I think for us, it's an interesting thing that you said about the fact that you visit so many different manufacturers and, you know, whether you see behind the curtain or not. And for us, it's really that idea that, I mean, being, I think probably German at heart, thinking about German engineering, thinking about German precision, you know, we really took exactly that same approach when we started making our timepieces, you know, and if you think we started in the 90s, but actually within really around three years of starting, we'd already started to develop the Nicholas Reassect. So even though in those early days we were, you know, we were buying industry calibers, we were finishing and decorating, making watches, a very, very good standard for the price that we were asking. But we'd already decided at that point that we wanted to have something in house and we were willing to take close to seven years to develop it. So again, it's not necessarily about having to do something instantly. We know good things take time, but again, we, I would say we always put A huge amount on the craftsmanship and the craftspeople that create it.
- [35:38]
A
What happened in the 90s to make you guys decide to do that? Because we're falling on the back of the 80s. Obviously, the start of the 80s and the 70s was a quartz crisis. So what was the impetus to move forward and change directions?
- [35:49]
C
So I think, I mean, it's interesting if you look back at Montblanc history, particularly, obviously, with the writing. You know, in the 70s, things were a little bit tough for everybody. Not just in the watch business. We'd moved in a very different direction with writing instruments. We were creating a lot of writing instruments for kids. So again, you're in Germany, you're at school, you were rewriting with a Montblanc. Okay, it wasn't a Meister stuck, but we. We got a different notion. It was very successful as a business. We had an amazing CEO that joined us in, in the early 90s. He was the gentleman that really had this idea of limited edition writing instruments when no one else had done it. So that was kind of the start of it. And we then opened our first boutique in Hong Kong in 1990, so, first boutique outside of Germany, completely owned by us. And of course, if you're going to open a boutique, we were also thinking a little bit about, you know, what is it that. And at that time, we were very much more a masculine brand. You know, we think about what is it that guys had. You don't have a lot of, you know, we get up in the morning, we put our wristwatch on. You know, you put your pen in your pocket, you maybe pick up your briefcase. That's it. You kind of go out, face the world and, you know, you've got these. These few companions that you kind of take with you. And really, the idea was that, you know, if we're doing what we do with writing, there's absolutely no reason why we couldn't do the same with timepieces. We've, you know, we've worked with precious materials. We've done a. You know, we've got a very, very strong engineering background. We've got something that I think is very unique to Montblanc, is that Montblanc DNA. You know, we did the first timepiece had a black dial, and that time no one had black dials. We did it because it was like the precious resin. You know, we had gold cases with the three rings taken from the Meister stuck. You know, and early those early years, you know, let's be honest, it was tough. People weren't necessarily expecting one vlog to come out with timepieces. But in a very short period of time, we were already starting to get people looking at us, turning heads, you know, people really wanting to know, well, what is it that this German pen brand's doing with their watches? We had this amazing. I mean, you guys never got the chance to see the Locke, but this beautiful villa in Le Lock, you know, one of the reasons we bought it was it just happened to be built between 1906 and 1908, which meant that it fits perfectly with where Mont Blanc was founded. Of course, it was a villa. It never been used for watchmaking before, so. And it's typically in Switzerland, a listed building or the equivalent of. So we couldn't do any kind of modernization upstairs, so we just dug underneath and built this beautiful atrium where today we've got about probably 80 to 90 watchmakers making our main collection. So Geospheres, IC Star Legacy, you know, the pieces that are a lot more available for, for most people. So you've got, again, you've got this Beautiful old villa, 1900s super modern atrium underneath that you can't actually see from the road. So again, it's a little bit of that tradition and modernity coming together within our manufacturers.
- [38:53]
A
Dave, do you feel slightly hard done by that? We didn't get an invite to go there as well, but we're gonna have to go back.
- [38:59]
B
Well, I may or may not have seen that, so I'm just going to say, nah, nah, nah.
- [39:03]
A
Oh, you can stay at home then.
- [39:04]
C
That's fine.
- [39:04]
B
Absolutely no problem. Anyway, what, what I'm going to say is you have unwittingly segued into something that I actually wanted to ask earlier. But Ricky very rudely interrupted. He's very good at that. I'm good at that as well, to be fair. But yes, you mentioned about that, something you just said there about that kind of journey into watches. It sounds almost like, you know, you were ahead of the trend and becoming a professional lifestyle brand. It was, you know, men have a few things that is their little defense or knowingness around them and that you added one watches in because you felt that was an area that you had not necessarily direct expertise with watches, but enough technical expertise in other areas, you could hopefully transition into that. But the question I wanted to ask you was, obviously you are very well known as a brand for your writing instruments and you don't just make run of the mill pens. Let me put it like that. These are not your plastic disposable pens. We're talking about here you've got a very wide range from everyday, you know, writing instruments, pens that will last a lifetime through to the absolutely top of the range, ludicrous, collectible, one off pieces that you will probably never see in your lifetime, other than maybe a picture if you're lucky, but has a lot of. Where does the interlay between I guess the pens and the artisanal craftsmanship of watchmaking? How much crossover do you see? You work with both of these areas of the business day in, day out. Do you see some of the, what they learn in one area beginning to affect the other?
- [40:29]
C
We've started again, it's an interesting question because we've actually started to see it more. So I would say with Rawan when he joined, because he saw straight away that when, you know, when he visited Hamburg for the first time and he went to the artisan atelier, he's like, you know, this is basically for all intents purposes a watch atelier. You just happen to be making pens here. But actually the tools that the guys have on their desks, the setup, the idea of specialized islands, you know, even looking at the modern tech, whether it's cnc, whether it's art cutting, you know, he could really see the parallels there. And I think really with Laurent, what he did is he started to think a little bit more about the writing background. So that was why we did the enheduanna that, you know, the world's first known writer, which I think we mentioned on a piece before, on a episode before, he then also started to think about the inspiration for ic, you know, when we think about that collection that was inspired by the, the murder glass, the amazing glacier, the, you know, freezes and melts each year on Mont Blanc. You know, when we think about the limited editions that we've done, you know, one of the things he or one of the people that he got absolutely fascinated by was Reinhold Messner and had these amazing chats and catch ups with Reinhold, talking about when he first climbed Montblanc and whether he climbed the north face of Mont Blanc when he did it without supplemental oxygen, which led to that whole concept of our zero oxygen was really coming from there. So again, I think we've seen definitely in the last four or five years a lot more crossover. I think now when we launch, whenever we launch a new high artistry collection, there will always be a high artistry timepiece that is connected to that story. Just like we talked about Versailles, you know, the last episode. And at the same time writing is, is still Very much part of Montblanc. It's. Sometimes you think that, you know, how do you get writing into a timepiece? Nicholas Reassek, first inking chronograph. The word chronograph comes from Time Writer. And then when we think we did a very nice rear set when we did the Hundred Years of Meister Stuck, where we superimposed the actual a copy of the original blueprints from the Meister stub both in 1924 and 1923. And even now, if you look at the Star legacy, we've just started to introduce a new strap shape where the end of the strap is the shape of the nib, which actually links also to our leather collection. So, yeah, there's an amazing synergy between, I'd say that, you know, the three core categories that we create now at Montblanc.
- [43:03]
B
Yeah. And I've seen a few of those things, like, for example, that little tail on the strap, which, you know, very much is cut into that shape. Shape of the fountain pen nib in many of the writing instruments you've done. So it's nice to see that. And I'll be amazed if in the future we don't see some materials technology, because, as we know, in pens, you guys are quite innovative with the use of either traditional materials that are used in pens or the use of new materials. And pens, and some of these may have analogies with what's used in watchmaking. But I'm sure there is going to a be point where there are certain materials used in pens that have never been used in watchmaking that may or may not make their way known into parts of dials or other parts of watches.
- [43:46]
C
What did you see exactly when you last came to the manufacturer, Dave? Where were you when you disappeared off? And I mean exactly where. Who were you talking to? Because this now sounds very scary that you seem to have some inside track of maybe. Maybe what we might or might not be doing in the future.
- [44:01]
B
No, I just thought, you know, it would make. If it was me, it would make logical sense to, you know, tie these things together. You know, I even have a. I have a new phrase for you, which is, what is it? You can't read the time if it's not first written. There you go. You can own that. I'll trademark that one, pay me the checks, and you can use it in.
- [44:19]
C
Your shops thing again without kind of giving any. Any kind of spoilers of what might, might or might not be coming. It was interesting you were talking earlier about the idea of the symmetry of a crown on the case that might possibly maybe, you know, without kind of me hitting my or saying anything that I should. That might be something that might surprise you.
- [44:41]
A
Well, you know what, you're the guy that doesn't break them bar goes. But I'm pretty sure the next person that we speak to from your organization, we will find out everything we need to know. And it won't take too long either. But we're almost at the end of an episode. But the last question that I want to pose to you, and it's a tricky one because I'll just say it and you can see what you come up with. What is the collecting journey for somebody getting into Montblanc or Minerva? Everybody's different. Every enthusiast, collector, they don't start that way. The first watch is not a buy from somebody that wants to build a new career, build a new hobby, get into an industry they didn't really know existed before. Certainly wasn't the case for me. I was just looking to buy a cool watch. But what is the trajectory like for somebody that picks up one of the entry level pieces? It could be the Geosphere, it could be something like that. Do you see a progression? Do you see people building, building with the brand, going up the different stages within, moving to high complication, moving across the Minerva piece? What's that like?
- [45:41]
C
I mean, there's so many journeys. I would say there's probably three pieces that kind of normally get people started on their journey. Nicholas Riasek is always one. And I would say that's generally collectors who are already pretty knowledgeable about the watch world. So that means that we're not necessarily their first watch. You know, they've, they've obviously, you know, they may have some PC sports models, you know, something that everyone would kind of know. What you often find is they love the idea of the rear set being completely out there, completely different. The idea of the rotating discs for the chronoblock. What you would then have would be someone that's really wanting to be a little bit left field, that doesn't want to necessarily go for one of the brands that all of their friends have. So they want something a bit different. Geospheres is probably the one watch I'd say in the last three years that, I mean, if there was ever a gateway drug, the Geosphere, is it because whether you're into watches or not, and it's funny you said earlier, Dave, about, you know, it's very easy to read and you set second time zone, honestly, you pull out the crowd you turn the crowd, you see the globes move. I am a sucker for it. I mean, do I ever use the second time zone? Never. But I just love the idea that during the day those globes are turning, that you've got something moving on the dialogue. You know, I'm a simple guy. Give me something moving on a dial and I'm all over it. And then coming probably the third sort of third way people discover Montblanc is generally already a Montblanc fan, already has the Meister stock, already has writing, already has leather. And generally, I think for those clients is often star legacy. The fact that you've got a nice timepiece that is very elegant and actually not, not too ostentatious, is not too out there. And again, we often find clients that say, you know, I want to watch that. Not everybody's going to know. You know, again, it's that idea that you're wearing something, you know, it's nicely tailored or you're wearing it suited with a nice suit, something a little bit more tailored. And the idea is that not everyone's going to know what you have on your wrist, but people that know will know, you know. And there's a little bit of that kind of understatement. A little bit. Whether you call it quiet luxury. And I would say those are really the sort of three. Do they then move on 100%? I'd say three or four of the. The big collectors that we have in the UK for Minerva, one collector actually has every Geosphere that we've made. So he totally came to Montblanc through the Geosphere. Then when he discovered that there's actually another level, we have Minerva. And he's massively into his kind of military pieces. He's got Split second Chrono, any of the sort of the more military inspired Red Arrow. He has that he has two of the unveiled secret. But again, I would say that, you know, it's a little bit like the writing world that you begin with a Meister Stuck or Starwalker. You then move into, say, special edition or a limited edition that's available. And then before you know it, you're asking for invites to artisan events and you want to buy something that, you know, you're really one of probably only 100 people on the planet that own it.
- [48:42]
B
I think as a brand, they are one of the few brands that do have an ecosystem as well as we know. Most watch brands are just that. They are watch brands. And whilst they may try to play adjacencies with little accessories Here or there, you never see those accessories in the wild, but you genuinely see lots of people. And as much as writing and, you know, writing instruments is definitely something that is a more specialist niche now. We're all used to typewriters and keyboards and our phones, but there's something nice about having a pen. And when you do have to write something using a nice pen, there's something about that and all the leather goods, the number of my friends that will say to me, oh, what's that watch? Oh, it's a Montblanc. Who are they? And I kind of look at them and go, take your wallet out your pocket. And they go, oh, it's the same guys. You're like, yes, it's the same guys.
- [49:28]
A
It's the guys with a little Allen Key Torx logo thingy.
- [49:31]
C
And I've got to say, that is the. I mean, there's many things that I've heard the emblem be called, but an Allen Key talk. This is now a first, Ricky. So I guess you want to trademark that one as well, do you?
- [49:41]
A
I'm a little bit mechanically minded and it's the only mind that I'm interested in. But we're coming to the end of a show. We are at the end of a show. Actually, I'm going to be sidetracked here because Simon, he just runs away with stuff in a good way. Ask him a question, Dave asks him a question, he then takes the floor and he runs with it. Some people we speak to, it's like trying to get blood out of a stone. It's like that old Rowan accent advert in the UK back in the 80s. Unfortunately for listeners, we're going to have to just draw a line in the sand here and wait until the final concluding part of our four part quadrology. I think that's the right term for it. But it's always a pleasure, Simon, having you on the show, because you're not just knowledgeable, you bring entertainment, you bring fun, jokes, mirth and humor, and that's what we love on this show. Anything you want to finish up on, Dave?
- [50:25]
B
No, I just want to say, of course, thank you, Simon, for your partaking in these three episodes. Unfortunately, you're not going to make a showing on the fourth episode, but I am very sure that in the near future you will be back on the show with more mirth and merriment and tales from the world of Montblanc and Minerva. We will catch up with you, no doubt in person soon. And I hope everyone that's been listening to this has learned a little something. And of course, if you have questions that we forgot to ask or that we've missed out, please remember, do send them our way because we will absolutely get them to Simon and we will get those answers back over to you in one of our regular broadcast episodes. So, Simon, thanks very much for your time over the last three episodes and of course, for taking two silly Scottish people over to Switzerland and managing to get them back out the country without getting arrested. That's always a benefit.
- [51:13]
C
Thank you so much, guys. Honestly, doing these three episodes have been great fun. Taking you to Switzerland is also one of definitely one of my better trips. And again, I think now we may need to try and get you back to the lock as well, so. That is noted, Ricky. Don't worry. I have made a note of it. So, you know, as we get further into the year, then we'll, let's see, maybe we'll go when the weather's a little bit warmer. You know, maybe then you can have a little swim in the lake when we stay at the hotel.
- [51:40]
A
I'm glad that I planted that thought NLP wise in your head. That is good. You picked up on that one. Perfect. That is an end of a show. We are out Mondays and Thursdays, obviously. Look through our back catalog, look in the show notes, because Miz is going to link up all the previous editions, including a mini series we ran many, many years ago. But the thing about watchmaking is nothing gets old because things from the past, we can go decades, we can go centuries into the past and still be current because of watches last a very, very long time. And when we were actually upstairs in Minerva, we saw tons and tons and tons of things in the attic that were over a century old and they looked almost brand new. So it's always a pleasure, Simon. Thank you so much for joining us and we'll catch you again soon.
- [52:22]
C
Thanks, guys.
- [52:23]
B
Take. Sam.