← Scottish Watches
Scottish Watches
Scottish Watches Podcast #765 : Behold – Thor! The Watch Writing Avenger
00:50:29
This episode features Thor Svaboe, a Norwegian-born journalist and former sales executive turned full-time watch writer, whose work spans major international titles including The New York Times, Hodinkee, Robb Report,...
Loading summary
Transcript62 lines
- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the Scottish Watches podcast, the episode that nearly never came to be. I'll tell you why. Turns out when people are really clever, they're journalists, they're reporters, they can write things, they can eloquently lay down words in written format. Turns out they don't really do computers very well. They can't get the laptops to function. They're telling me they can't use their headphones because they're not charged up, even though there's a cable running to the computer. But we got there in the end. Yeah, I don't know if we've got the wrong superhero. Maybe we should have got a hold of Loki and not Thor. But here he is. Thor is here to tell it's all about Watches. Introduce yourself to the audience. Who are you and why are you here today?
- [00:34]
B
I am Thor. And yes, you are right, we might be better off with my evil brother Loki, as tech is obviously not my strong side. As you can, as you've already summarised, it is like half an hour took me to bloody connect. I'm a writer, I write for various publications including Hodinkee, Rob Report, Oracle, Time in the uk, Wallpaper, etc, etc and a very big commission coming out for a broadsheet in the States. That's me. And obviously not an experienced podcast guest.
- [01:14]
A
Well, you know what, we like to incorporate everybody, even the fledgling people in this media space. You may be an expert in the written form, but hey, when it comes to audio, we're here to guide you by the hand down the yellow brick road. So don't worry, you're in a safe space. But yeah, you mentioned quite a lot of different publications. They are very highfaluting brands, very, very long and prestigious names there. And we're obviously not going to go too in depth on certain ones because they are embargoed. But you have told me offline, you know, you've got a lot of irons in the fire, so that is to be commended. And the reason that you're on today is, unlike some other people, and I've had this conversation recently, there are a lot of folks in the media sphere, perhaps they are bloggers, perhaps they are influencers, tiktokers, they like to gatekeep, they like to pull the ladder up behind them and not cross pollinate with other creators. Whereas we've always had the ethos since day one that we would rather bring people on our inner sphere. Because hearing the one voice in an echo chamber is never good. It's never good for you listening at home. It's not good for us. So we'd like to get a little bit of international flavor and flair and that's why you're here. We met up recently across in Dubai at Dubai Watch Week. Fantastic event, recommend it to everybody and we had a chat about this, that and the other. And you told me about some of the side projects that you're involved in, some of the brands that you speak with and you've offered your help to their creative endeavors. A little bit like Ariel Adams helps out behind the scenes with different brands. You have done the same and there are a few that people will have heard of but we're not going to tell you which ones, but what we are going to tell you to do is to check the show notes, play along at home, Click the link in your podcast player takes you to our website to a page designated for this episode. In there, in a chronological format, you're going to see all the information linked, the tech spec, the watches, the events, anything that tickles our fancy across the next 55 minutes or thereabouts. And we don't have an agenda, we don't have any show notes, we don't have any bullet points. We're just going to see where the road takes us and it's probably going to take us straight into the risk. Check. So what you got on the wrist today for us?
- [03:05]
B
Thoroughly today I've got one on the desk and one on the wrist. Today I'm wearing the 35 millimeter Raymond Vile Milsim with the salmon dial. That was just a brand that I never really paid that much attention to before. But I think the Millesim is just like they, that they sort of, that was, that was a proper game changer for them.
- [03:29]
A
Is that the one that came out last year?
- [03:31]
B
Yeah, it is and it's the 35, which obviously they still market it as a ladies watch and it came with a strap which was way too short for me, but it's just like a really, really good watch. I am quite fond of small diameter cases, so that one I'm wearing. And then I've got a ridiculous bargain that I unboxed yesterday from Chrono24, which is on my desk too.
- [03:58]
A
Go on then, tell us what it is.
- [04:00]
B
This is like the. Cause I'm, I'm, I'm not that big on vintage, but I, I really enjoy this sort of neo vintage stuff from the 90s and 2000s because there's so many bargains to be had. And I actually just finished an opinion column yesterday for Watch Pro on like Neo vintage. This is the unsung hero, the Seiko Seiko Aerospace alternative which has got like a Ana Digi display from about 93 with loads of different options. The world timer, it's got a stopwatch, it's got etc, etc etc and obviously this, this reverse display.
- [04:46]
A
And for anyone listening at home that hasn't clicked the show notes he is showing me the watch on screen. Looks like a landmine or perhaps one of the submerged mines that you get with all the little prongs. It's got four pushers at each of the outer edges. Maybe given vibes of the Breitling Chronomat, things like that, where it's got the two different independent displays or perhaps the Speedmaster X series.
- [05:08]
B
It's actually got 1, 2, 3, 4 LCD displays on the screen and they're all negative ones. So obviously after 30 something years they're not going to be too bright. But this is like, it's like the, it's like the brightening aerospace except for these are like less than 200 quid on Chrono 24. So it's like, it's like the bargain of the 20th century.
- [05:29]
A
What's the name of it again?
- [05:30]
B
Seiko H021 8001 steel bracelet, water resistant, ridiculous little LCD displays. Looks like the Breitling Aerospace. It's just a super, super cool little watch.
- [05:48]
A
I am on ebay because I don't have Chrono24 installed on this system and I'm looking in your right for a couple of hundred bucks. These are rather funky. Well, we're going to put the link in the show notes or Mizziel will put the link in the show notes for that. Because we're all about different styles of watches. We might talk about brand new things. My wrist check is a brand new watch. But we go back in time, we go back to the auction lands, we go through Chrono 24, we go through ebay. But no, that is lovely. And you mentioned there about the watch on rest of the Raymond Vale. Well, they actually sent us some watches last year. They didn't send that specific one, but we did chat about it and the ones that came across here were the new Takata range and they impressed the wife so much that she actually picked one up for herself. So yeah, Raymondville doing great things. Over the past few years they've had a few standout hits. They had the Freelancer Pop, which was a titanium number by Compaq's design chronograph with a little bit of that turquoise, as Dave would say on it. I loved that and I bought it. I went to a retail shop, I was so interested that I bought it there and then. Yet no questions asked. And I usually don't do that. We get so many watches in for review. There's no point wasting money buying a watch when I'm getting a brand new one every week and returning the one that I just had on the wrist. But no, fantastic. Both of them, great pickups. And the watch I'm wearing today, I have spoken about it before but I have changed up. People like to give me a hard time because I change the straps on watches generally for inferior products. So I would take an Apollo 8 Speedmaster and I'd put it on a janky AliExpress strap because well, the bracelet matched the head. It would be ceramic black and people would give me a really, really hard time. So the latest thing that I have decided to bastardize is my Apiar Gen 1.0. So this is from the folks down south. It is a 3D titanium printed watch. They like to call it additive technologies but it is 3D printed. It's got the dial that is 3D printed. It has got the case itself, it has got the side flanks. Everything about it is as light as possible, is almost as light as perhaps some of those record breaking watches we've spoken about recently, perhaps from Ulysse, Nardan and other places. The difference this time around versus a few weeks back when I first got it is I have transplanted it. It's no longer on that black suede extre extremely thin strap. It is now on a janky aftermarket 10 pound, almost bund looking thing which is actually a Velcro silver number. Got it off Amazon for about 10 quid as I said. And you know what? Because it's a 3D printed watch, it looks a little bit crazy. It matches perfectly. If you look in the show notes you'll see the color match is almost identical. And that was from a rather crap image online. But if I quickly take it off the wrist. There you go, you heard the Velcro going crazy. And we pop it around to the back. One of the points that we mentioned before when we talked about the watch the first time is it's got our logo on the back. The guys offered to do this for me as an add on. I didn't ask. They said they would do it. And this isn't ink, this isn't paint, this isn't dye, it's not DLC and it's not pvd. They actually used a laser to cut into the material at a wavelength that would reflect the colour blue. That's how clever these guys are with making watches, the technology they're using. So it's almost like a hologram on the back, but not quite because it doesn't go through the entire spectrum of colors of the rainbow. And then looking at the side of it on the flank, you can see there they've only used as much material as was needed to make a watch without it falling apart. And the dial as well. You can tell the time. People ask me, how do you tell the time? Dead easy. The web arrangement on the dial. Well, the top of the web is at the 12, the bottom of the web is at the 6, then you've got the 3, the 9 and then the breaks for the 5 minute intervals. So it is actually extremely easy to tell the time. Great little handset on it and a fantastic little watch. You can pick these up because they are available and I got the price correct the last time. £2,250 including VAT, I believe. All details will be in the show notes. And if you like the strap, you can pick that up. 10 quid on Amazon to go with it. But that is the wrist checks out the way super early. So Mizzy, all will be happy. Time to get into the meat of the matter, find a little bit more about our guest and have a good old chat about wristwatches.
- [09:40]
B
I will tell you that, but. And a bit later I will. I will stop grinning because I had such a big smile on when he showed the apr, because that has a link to my biggest milestone yet in writing.
- [09:57]
A
Tell me all about her.
- [09:59]
B
My third of March, I have my debut story for published for the New York Times. And that Ricky is on apr.
- [10:12]
A
No way.
- [10:13]
B
That is my debut story. Genuinely, you did not know that and I didn't mention it when I was chatting with you. That is my debut story for the New York Times, which is just unreal. Are you sure you brought out that watch? And I was like, well, that'll be like the perfect segue. Just.
- [10:28]
A
And you hadn't told me a thing about it. This was a secret you were keeping from even myself. Okay, well, let's talk about these guys because I'm a huge proponent for what they do because they could blast the pricing. It has cost them hundreds of thousands to set up a company, get the machines and do all the crazy work. The R and D making mistakes because of her style. They made for me cracked so they couldn't tell Me to watch. It was delayed by three months. I was hoping to take it to Dubai. This would have actually come with me on my travels to meet you for the first time, but it didn't. But this arrived a couple of weeks back as I mentioned, and they're doing so well. So how did you get in touch with them?
- [11:01]
B
Basically I did a short article for Wallpaper magazine like last summer, right on apr and mentioning a couple of other 3D printing case brands. And obviously API is the first brand ever who has printed the case and the dial for the watch. 3D printed, which obviously, which is like the layman's term, but it's really called additive manufacturing because it's not. It's not. There's. There is a difference between 3D printing which usually associate with like, you know, toys and prototyping and stuff which is made from, usually from plastics. But additive manufacturing, they are the first brand to do the dial and the case. And dial is actually integrated into the case. And it's got, as you showed, it's got this colored background in two different colors underneath that spiderweb dial. And when I pitched right after Christmas, I was allowed to pitch to the Devil's Devil Wears Prada esque, editor of the New York Times. And that is the kind of perfect, that is the kind of story that they go for. Something new, something quirky, something different and something independent. That seemed like a perfect idea. That was one of my ideas. And she just went for that. And I've just been. Yesterday I was on like edit and editor number three back and forth on this article, which is now coming out in March.
- [12:28]
A
I love the way that things get joined together by complete accident. We don't plan it ahead of time. You've probably seen this watch in previous editions of Shown. You kept your mouth shut. You're very good at this game. Where are you from exactly? Where is Thor originating from?
- [12:41]
B
Obviously I am originating from Norway. I will say that I've written a single article in Norwegian the last five years. My dad lived in the UK for like 40 years in Essex. I've been in a previous life. I've been a manager of a kitchen studio in Birmingham. But that's another. That's another story. So I've got some history in the uk for me, writing in English is natural. I've been reading only English language books since I was about 12. I love watches. You know, got started in with a. A fairly useless YouTube channel that I gave up on fairly quickly and then got into writing and that was it.
- [13:23]
A
And this is now your full time gig. For how many years?
- [13:25]
B
For a couple of years. I started like properly about six, seven years ago. This microphone here was part of 2020 for a year I was the. It was like one of those classic quiet quitting pandemic things where I was actually the national sales manager in Norway for a German kitchen appliance brand of all things for almost nine years. And then the pandemic came. All the events, the client meetings, all that social, all that stuff was gone. I was stuck with 18 sheet Excel sheets, which, you know, was not very exciting. So I would log on in the morning and then, you know, tell them to sell more dishwashers or whatever and then log on to the other laptop and did about 200 articles in a year for Time and Tide as their independence editor.
- [14:15]
A
Well, we've got good connections with Time and Tide. Zach Blass started off cutting his teeth at Scottish watches. We know Andrews were on the show. Yeah, it's a good close knit community. That's what I said at the very beginning. Recently we've had Andrew Morgan on Adrian Barker from Barking Jack and we've got a few people already recorded that will be either coming out soon or have just landed. You know, you've been involved in this for a couple of years properly. You've been doing things behind the scenes for a number of other years. Do you find you're going to more and more events? You mentioned Dubai was the first time you'd been there. Have you been to Pal Expo a number of years. Have you gone to Jiva Watch Days across to intersect and wind up. What's your passport look like?
- [14:53]
B
Geneva Watch Days is the event I wouldn't miss. That's the one I've been to three or four years in a row. And that's because I've always been a big. Always been. I've always had a deep love for the independent brands. To me that's where the excitement is. And last year was actually the first time I went to the Plexpo. I've done loads of stories of the drops and the releases every year, but obviously with that it's, you know, it's a case of, you know, being a regular writer somewhere and not freelance for like four or five different outlet is the way to get in. I went last year, thought that was amazing, but I thought it's. The Watch days to me is still sort of where the love is. And Dubai Watch Week I thought was amazing. Yesterday I was. No yesterday, sorry. Last year I would say that between April and November I was about six times in Geneva, I was in LA for the Urban Jordans launch, etc, etc, but so I do enjoy the traveling. Plexpo is like a different beast altogether. Especially now when there's like the Plexpo and there's the Boribage and there's Time to watches in that villa and then there's like another event there also which is called Chrono something I can't remember which. I've got no idea how I'm going to get managed to get through to all of them.
- [16:11]
A
But let's rewind the clock a little bit here. We're not going to go for the usual tried and tested. How did you get into watches themselves? Because you've mentioned a lot of really high floating publications. Hodinkee, the Rob Report, the New York Times. How do you get inroads into places like that? How do you bash down their door and get an audience with the editors?
- [16:30]
B
I'll just like pull up some examples because obviously I started at Time and Tide. I was there for like a year and then I moved to Fratello and I was there as one of their freelance editors for almost three years and about two and a half years. And that time I also sort of also got into gq, worked for them for about, for a couple of years. And you know, it's a lot, it's a lot of accidents and, and coincidences. Like the gq. The GQ bit was because the lifestyle director there, Mike Christensen, he was at Time and Tide for a bit when I was there, along with Zach Bass. In 2020, he moved to GQ. I started doing some watch spotting for him and I was like, look, can I pitch something? And I did and I got in there. And then, you know, after that, after Fratello and after that I was also writing a bit for Revolution for about five months. It's just eternal, persistent, never ending, bloody pitching every day. That's the only way to get in. And it's like getting, you know, it's like my first proper gig was with time and tide 2020. And that was because I had like a guest story on Fratello. I was working up in Scandinavia. The first brand actually offered to send me a watch, which was Linda Verdelin. And I was like, I got that watch that was coming in the mail and I was like, okay, I know that Fratello have got this watch because they're actually the ones that it first and sent it to me. No stories come out. And that was it. I just pitched that on a On a. On a message to Andrew McCutcheon. Look, I've got this Linda Berglund watch. It's coming. It's not been out yet. I've been writing here and there, blah, blah, blah. Obviously making my previous writing experience seem a bit bigger than it was. I was in sales for 20 years. You know, it's saying, I've got this watch coming. I could do a quick story and are you interested?
- [18:19]
A
Yeah.
- [18:19]
B
And that was it. I did that and then all of a sudden I had five more and four more and I was a regular. But, you know, even after that, even now, even every, every week, every day, every two days is like pitching something.
- [18:30]
A
I think that's what people sometimes forget. They look at a film star and they think they're lucky. They think of a footballer, they're lucky. They're playing for their dream team, making all this money, but they don't see the persistence, the constant trying to push a rock up a hill. And, you know, people can say you're lucky, but it's the dedication and the hard work behind that. It's what they don't see. It's the 99%, it's the iceberg, it's the part under the water. And the other thing that people recently have said, obviously, about Christopher Ward is, oh, look at those guys. Aren't they doing great for a new company? But they've been going for nearly 25 years. It takes a long time to become an overnight success and it takes a lot of hard work to be lucky in this day and age. But it's similar to what we do. We contact as many brands as possible. We've said when we go to big events at PAL Expo at Geneva, watch days, yeah, we'll go and see the people we know. We'll see Moser, we'll see Hot Launch, we'll see this, that and the other. But then as a brand we've never heard of, perhaps they've been around a while, they haven't been shouting too loud and we'll go and see them. So we go and see Beda, we go and see Behrens a couple of years ago. We go see this brand, that brand, RTR Claude Mehlan, and we find out about people that are just working away in their own little corner of the universe. Perhaps sometimes they pop their head up so people can see a little bit about them and then they disappear quite as quickly. But these are where the untapped stories are. All the hidden gems live, and it's good to sometimes bring them out. AP are great example. They don't have $20 million a year to advertise, to sponsor. To get a PR and marketing agency shouting things from the rooftops. They've got to do it as quickly and as easily as possible because they're just reinvesting constantly in the business, growing and building. And they're young guys. They're not people that have come from Audemars Piguet. They're not folks that used to work at Patek. They're not watchmakers that used to work for jlc. These are guys starting out with a fledgling business that are tapping into what is the hottest new ticket. I'm just now Additive Technologies, and I see a great future for them. Hopefully they'll be back in Scotland for this year's Glasgow Watch Show. But let's move things back in time. Let's do that origin story part. Since you are obviously part of the cinematic universe of Marvel.
- [20:25]
B
I would, I would say that. I would say that that sort of always been there on and off since I was about. Since I was about 7 and had my first watch on, on the wrist. Because obviously for me, I'm, you know, I'm not. I'm not 32, so I'm used to always having a watch on. I have a watch on. I sleep with the watch on. You know, I feel naked without having a watch on my wrist. So to me, that's completely, you know, from when I was like 7, 8, 9 years old, looking through windows and, you know, getting that first digital watch, getting that digital watch with the little game on, you know, and, you know, that it's. It's like. It's like a journey. But watches have sort of never left my wrist. I've never. I'm sure if I'm thinking back, I can actually think that, you know, unless it's by. By accident or if I'm going cycling on my gravel bike, I do not leave the house without a watch on my wrist ever. Not a single day.
- [21:16]
A
Well, I'm the same since I got reacquainted with the life of watch wearing and I took a dip because when I was a kid, I got a calculator watch and I was in school with that in the 80s, thinking I was the top shit. And then in the 90s, I got a watch that had a data bank in it so I could store numbers. And I told an interesting story about being in a nightclub and not taking a note of some girl's number using a pen. Then I used my databank watch for that. And Then I dropped out, dropped out the hobby. Didn't really care. There were clocks everywhere. Got a mobile phone in the late 90s, it had a digital display on it. Rest was history. Then I rekindled the love for watches. Having something there, mechanical marvel on the wrist. And I think it's the renaissance. It's a nostalgia kick that some people get when They've had a 10 year break from something and they come back to it. It's like people nowadays, some of them are going back to dumb phones. They don't want a smartphone, they don't want constant notifications because you're at the beck and call of technology. And with AI and everything going on these days, the more I can take away from that. I don't have any smart appliances in my house. Nothing is connected to an app, nothing is connected to the Internet. Don't want it. Because I like to pick and choose when I dip in and out of notifications. Technology is there to serve me, not the other way around. But watches, that is something that I can pick up a 200 pound banger that's come in from Spinnaker or I can pick up a 500,000 whatever from Greubel Forsey, from Richard Mille, from Jacob Co. Is astounded for both for different reasons. So can you remember that watch? It started out for you when you were 7?
- [22:41]
B
Yeah, yeah. Because I've looked for that like so many times. That was a, some kind of Swiss sports watch with a black plastic bezel that looked a bit like a diver's watch and it wasn't and it had like leather strap and it was called Tempus and I've looked for that. You've got no idea how many times I look for that and I've never found it. But that was like, that was basically it. And then later was other things and then, you know, I got into vintage and stuff. But that was sort of the, the start and I've always been the one, always been the one stopping outside the wind, looking through the windows of the dealers and stuff at the watches and swatches in the 80s and you know.
- [23:20]
A
So what's your collection looking like these days? Because very similar to myself, you've got a lot of watches that come in, they hang around for a week to a month and then they go back. What have you retained? What have you got in your own personal watch box?
- [23:31]
B
I reckon I've got about 20 something. I'm like, you know, I keep trying to consolidate and the collection bloody grows again the minute after. And it's sort of, it's funny because you mentioned I still have, you know, I have a big passion for the independent brands. Going back to the wanting to be a writer. Pitching a story to someone is like you have to pitch with, with love or with a passion for what you're pitching and the story you're pitching. You know, you can't take like a press release that someone will get and say, look, hi, I've written something. Here's a press release from Tag Heuer. Do you want me to write a story on this for you? Obviously that's not going to work. You mentioned brands like Beda and Barons, both of which I got in my collection. That is sort of the Beda watch. I did a story on Hidinki about Suhaib Magnam, the designer of Beda. Met him at the, at the Boy Barge. And it's just like, you know, this is just a passion in these people that run the smaller independent brands, which is completely, you know, to me is so special. And it's the fact that no matter if you're a writer or an enthusiast or something, you can even, you can even get a connection with these people that you can never get with the bigger brands, which makes it more, more personal. I probably like strayed way far off your question now, but, you know, not at all.
- [24:45]
A
And as you were talking there, I was busy messaging. The folks at AP are going, guess what we are talking about on the podcast just now. So that'll be another listener added for that episode. But what you say is correct. It's the independent. They kind of capture the moment for me at a price point that you're not paying for. Somebody walking in off the street into a retail establishment, getting extra champagnes handed to them. Lots of cool things, expensive decor. No, no, no. That will cost money. I would rather cut out the middleman. Get something that hasn't gone through three years of iterations and panel discussions, all this kind of stuff. It's basically some has created an idea, put it to market to see if it would fly and hopefully the good stuff lasts. And obviously APR Studio. Studio Underdog. One of the best stories of the past five to six years of somebody who had an idea, a passion and the ability to take it to market and not run out of steam. For that one design that he keeps iterating on, you would expect him to run out of puff at some point and he hasn't. And even the latest one where he did a bit of a skit on a hillside in almost sub zero temperatures and released a new watch to go with it. Always great to hear what Rich is up to. And the guys at Moser, Bloody hell. They released something that we talked about recently on the show and one great example of a brand that is maybe not a fledgling brand, maybe it's not one of the inexpensive independents, but it's one that we hold close to our hearts. Moser. It's Moser and C. They released a version of the streamliner just within the last few weeks and we probably talked about in the show already. It looks black. They call it anthracite. I'm going to take them to task on that when I see them in Geneva. And is obviously the standard shape that you would always expect, but it's a ceramic. And then the dial almost looks like a Terminator's eye as it fades from fumey red in the center out to black on the outer edges. And it looks like maybe a steel drum that has been hand beaten with a tourbillon at the 6 o' clock position. Doesn't sound great when you talk about it in real life, but when you look at the pictures of it, when you see the video of it and you see it on wrist, it is mesmerizing. It's a little bit pricey for my pockets already own a streamliner. I'm very happy with it and I wouldn't change it for the world. But it goes to show even after five, six years of a design with a brand that has produced so many watches, they can still create something that stands out. And unlike those field tests I was talking about where things go to a panel of so called experts to figure out if this watch will make it to the shops. Then you end up with something that's a little bit watered down because everybody in that focus group has had a say in it. So you end up with an average watch designed and spearheaded by average people. The independents, they do crazy stuff. Look at Kadoki, look at Chaikin, look at these guys. Look at even Armin Strom who try to play down the middle. It's a watch you might find if you were looking at Chopard or Zenith or Hublot. But the price point is absolutely fantastic. So let me throw it to you. Quick fire round. If you had to name your top three, in no particular order, but your top three independent brands that seem to be doing great things, constantly pushing the narrative forward, who would those three be?
- [27:45]
B
We seem to be scarily aligned on, on taste there, Ricky, because I, I was just looking at the, the, the press release of The Mosa like, like an hour ago. There's Ramic one, which I think is amazing with that red, deep red dial. It's really cool. That was like. It was actually one of my benchmark moments to last year. I was actually at the Barcelona Formula one Grand Prix with, with. With Moza. And then a story for, for Hinku, which I actually also shot because I do shoot sometimes, which I thought was amazing. But that's something else I would say. Yeah, exactly. With it in the pit with the camera, with the Mosa on my wrist. Bloody. That was amazing. That was like a landmark, like pinch myself moment. Moser will be up there for me. I would also say beware watches. And that would be something I would not be agreed on. Like two or three years ago when they dropped their first watch that over. Over complicated everything minute repeater, the tour beyond the bracelet, the, the stone dials, which was way over the top for me. And then they brought out the simple 39 millimeter one. I was just blown away. And then visiting them last May on a, on a solo trip to, to his atelier in that farmhouse. You know, amazing stuff and Mose and them. And then, you know, and then for me it's also small brands like, like Beda that you mentioned, based in Qatar, you know, as the other ones, not Swiss. So completely different place. Super, super charming. People just working hard, trying to do something completely different. You know, the octagonal Mecheline watch. Wear that a lot with this sort of minimal Moza ish dial. That stuff to me is just brilliant. And I sort of feel. And also, and I would say Ming. I would say on the Hidinki video of like teams and friends of what watches we wore most in 2025. Mine was the Ming 3702 minimalist with that black dial and that black FKM rubber strap. I love colorful dials. A monochrome, completely black watch. The one I wore the most would be like, I would, I would have thought was like ridiculous a year ago, but that is just so, it's so good. It's so perfect. And it's ironically now accessible because that cost less than four grand. And now the Ming, the new ming was about 20. So obviously you see that too. But you know, yeah, independent watches, independent brands, that's, that's, that's where my passion is.
- [30:11]
A
We talked recently on a show myself and Dave and I had the idea floating in my head that 2000 is the new 1000. It used to be. There was so much around about the 1k mark and there still is we talked about Watch Ho and Code and Seltan producing something at $1,200 that is immaculate. It's fantastic looking. But more and more things are creeping towards that 2k mark, which is to be expected because Rolex and Omega and these other guys, they've pushed their prices up. The cost of materials has gone up, the cost of manufacture, the cost of everything has gone up. But if you were to maybe take a look through the recent past, because you obviously have your finger on the pulse as much as we do, what would you say the standouts have been over the last year or so?
- [30:50]
B
I have a love for the, the newly revived urban Jorgensen brand. I think they're really, really good. They are pricey for what they are. But that brand is, when you, if you see it isolated, you see the price, the cost isolated, even with, with the, with the immense standing that caribbeautolainen has and you see it and think that's a costly watch. But then, you know, but then you meet the people and you think that, you know, it's Carrie Vouterleinen. They've revived the brand. The owners are based in la. They are passionate. Meeting the Rosenfields, I was there for the launch and I met Alex Rosenfield, the CEO, two or three times after that in Geneva and there's just like, there's a passion there and there's like a, you know, there's a, there's a, there's a will to do something, do it, do it well and not, you know, especially when you're reviving a brand like that. So that was like stand out for me. The stuff coming out from Gerald Genta now I think is amazing. It's just unreal.
- [31:52]
A
I was going to say the better that you were talking about, which is one of the watches, I was thinking it's almost like it's following in his DNA. The Gerald Genta DNA.
- [32:02]
B
Yeah, it's almost. I was looking at first I was like, wow, that's like, that's like, that's like a Bulgari Octo on a budget. But then you try on, it's like, wow. And it's got these chunk big chunky lugs and is such a comfortable, such a good watch. And that to me that will give me. That's like 1500 quid even, even, even 1200. And that to me will give me as much joy as trying on a 150 grand beaver with a stolen dial. Because they've both got their own very particular qualities. Genta stuff. It's amazing. Now, but. And that's also, you know, that's also a brand which is, you know, it's part of the LVMH group. And it sort of has this very elevated price point, obviously, but even there, there's like the, the, the, the. This intimate approach to things. I mean, I will mention, because it just popped into my head because that's, because I, that's. That was right after I saw you. The gene watch days last year. I was at the, I was at the. Which hotel was it where the LVMH had taken up one whole hotel for the gene watch days last year?
- [33:06]
A
The Four Seasons.
- [33:07]
B
Yeah, the Four Seasons. And I was like, what the hell is TAG Heuer doing there? I thought. But you know, I had an appointment there. And to me that, just like that, that underlined everything of my sort of why I love the, the, the independence. I had the. Had an appointment with TAG Heuer right before you. So when I was finished, I was sitting there in the sofa. You came in with Dave and a female, which I don't know who was.
- [33:33]
A
May have been my wife, hopefully was my wife or I'm in deep trouble,
- [33:36]
B
probably you, you and your wife and Dave. You came in right after me. TAG Heuer, that appointment was at. The watches were there. They were set up like this gallery. So they were on these pedestals and you were not allowed to touch them or like take them, put them on your wrist. And I was so frustrated and I was like, yeah, they are, they are amazing TAG Heuers and they're like the, the top line, the Halo TAG Heuer watches with the, the carbon spring and all that stuff. And I was not allowed to put it on my wrist and do a wrist shot. And I was so frustrated, especially because I've just come from the Gerald Genta meeting and there I was sitting around a little coffee table with the, with, with Enrico Barbatini, the original designer, worked with Genta, with the new designer of the Genta watches with the marketing director of, of. Of the Louis Vuitton. And just in hast. And we're sitting in there around the table, passing the watches back and forth. The prototype for the minute repeater and the new model and the Barbasini, the designer was coming in, picking up the watch, handing it around, you know, and then going down to TAG Heuer not even being able to touch the watches was like such a big contrast. And to me just underlined the whole importance of the independent brands and the whole sort of the more intimate setting. And that was the watch that cost three times as much as the TAG Heuer I saw after.
- [34:59]
A
It's a good point. You actually reminded me of that. I was not blown away last year with LVMH at Geneva watch days. I thought it was a little bit rushed. And the worst one was Zenith. We were pushed in a baby room and it was the USM collab.
- [35:14]
B
Yeah, Zenith. I came into that room and I was like, open the door. Is my. I've got an appointment at 1 o'. Clock. He opened the door and I was, okay. This is like a.
- [35:24]
A
The cloak room, right?
- [35:25]
B
It was the cloak room. And it was packed. It was packed with people. And it took me 10 minutes, 15 minutes to actually being able to collar someone and say, look, I've actually got an appointment and there's like 40 people in here in a room where next door at. There was that. We were three people, you know, and there was like. And the whole thing was like. So that was like. Yeah, that was a really weird. That was a big. Within the same hotel, within the Four Seasons, there was such a contrast between the different LVMH brands. To me, it was just baffling.
- [35:58]
A
It was. And in the bottom, in the ground floor, you had the Bulgari area that was spread out, prestigious, luxurious. Everything had its place. There was lots of air to breathe. You could float around. You could look at technology. They had blown apart watches. You could see the different layers, the dial, the sapphire, the movement, the plates. And like I said a minute ago, Zenith, where they're trying to push them forward. It was cramped, it was crushed, it was. Look, we've got it in a different color. Who's next? Really, really strange. And that is lvmh. It's LVMH in the Four Seasons. It was LVMH on the opposite side of Geneva, where you're talking about, where it was Daniel Roth, where it was Gerald Genta, where they were showcasing stuff and you could just relax, get up close, personal and intimate with the new releases, and they would pull things out that wasn't even embargoed because it was a prototype. Like you say, these had never been seen before. And there was no security, there was nobody breathing down your neck. So it's very strange that within the same conglomerate, you've got such disparate ways of doing things between the brands. Although I will caveat that and say when we got to Dubai and we got to see Tag and what they were doing there with the crystalline structures, with the robots, with the way they were mixing different elements from the periodic table, that was an education. The way they explained it there, I thought they did it very, very well. So maybe they learned their lesson. But we've talked about some of the highlights of last year. It's always good to get the interpretation of different folks in the media about what was the good, the bad and the ugly. What do you think last year could be improved upon? Who missed last year?
- [37:24]
B
To be honest, if I judge, if I judge from the. The biggest event which was the Plexplo and the watch, the wonders. To me, I had like a. Same as this year. I had about four days compressed into like 38 meetings and was running around like a blue ass fly. Tudor was a bit of a disappointment. I would have thought they was expecting more. I mean, you know, there was a, there was the Titanium Pelagos which I thought was, was really good, but big. And then they did that strange move of, of taking the Black Bay up, up another notch size wise as the original 41 was already chunky. And then they brought up even bigger and they had this sort of cherry red dial which was quite nice, you know, but nothing. And then hublot. I, I didn't, I hadn't booked an appointment. I got in there with the French contingency. But even not being incredibly good in French, you know, I could just sense the surprise around the room where they were bringing out these sets of five watches or six watches and then the watches where the. It was the anniversary of the Big Bang, which obviously is a big thing. And the Big Bang was such a huge, enormous trendsetter in its day. And when they brought out the anniversary big bangs with the dials which were like carbon fiber, but they were not carbon fiber, they were actually printed to look like effing carbon fiber. And it was hublot. And I was like really? And they looked a bit like. They looked a bit like Hublot copies, you know, to be frank. Some of the beautiful sapphire case watches. Amazing. Except for. I like the green one. But no, you have to buy five of them for a million or something, which was like completely mad. But you know, it was quite good. But you know, but I don't know, some of the big brands sort of seem to hold back a lot but then some of the independents were just going full throttle, which I think was really sort of think was really cool.
- [39:22]
A
Yeah, I'd agree. It's been weird. We see things from a different point of view because the brands that we talk to, they're all over the shop. They can be brand. I've got an Email today from a brand I've never heard of, that's just started out. And the way that I speak to a new brand is slightly different than one that's established because we have a finite amount of time to deal with things to learn about brands, models, talk about them and show workout of the six to eight watches per episode, what we give our time to. Because if it's a Kickstarter from somebody that's never done it before, the chances are, like most businesses, 80% of them fail within the first two years. And we don't want to spend a lot of time researching, chatting, bringing somebody onto the show or talking about their products when it never hits the shelf, it never hits the wrist. That's a waste of time for us. And potentially somebody that puts their hand in their pocket, pays some money to Kickstarter, never receives a watch, so we have to be careful with that. But we do find out about lots of cool things that are happening, lots of cool collabs. And last year it was the independent that took things forward because Bulgari, we've seen, we've seen the numbers. We're not sort of. We're not sugarcoating anything or bitter tasting anything because the figures are out there. It was a bad year for lvmh, wasn't a great year for Swatch or Richemont. JLC has been in the news Zenith. There are rumors around about Bulma. Mercy has already disappeared and moved somewhere else. In previous years it was Jean Perregaux, Julissa Nordan. We've heard that people over in Switzerland, sometimes maybe they're on furlough, they're working shorter hours, less days per week. It's not great there. But then we look at, for instance in the uk where I'm based and where you've obviously stayed in the past. The industry has grown since the first bellwether report from the alliance operation watch and clock makers. It's almost doubled the amount of turnover in the watch industry within the British Isles, where watchmaking, as I've been told many times before it was cultivated and grew up. People think of Switzerland, no? Well, Rolex started in the UK and moved to Switzerland. Things were fantastic in America until somebody moved across and started IWC in Switzerland because it was cheaper, the manned force was cheaper. So there are lots of things, lots of irons in the fire, pal. Expo Watching wonders is merely weeks away at the point in time that this episode airs. And we've already booked in a lot of people. But like I said at the beginning of the show, one or two people have disappeared. We've had emails saying this company is no longer exhibiting at the show and that is not a good sign. So hopefully the Indies will carry the lantern and the torch forward. We'll see what's happening. I know the guys at Moser have got a lot up their sleeve. I know the guys at Czapek have got a lot of things ready to drop on wrists, but it's the other folks, the ones that maybe we don't have quite as good a connection with as of yet. We're just eager beavers to find out what they're going to be dropping. But you've obviously booked in, as you say, all these tens upon tens and nearly 40 appointments at PAL Expo. Very similar to ourselves. We hate the fact it's such a large area and we have to run between one side of the exhibition hall to the other and get there within 10 minutes to start the next appointment. I think we tracked on our phones one of the years we were there and it was 13 miles a day. We were walking.
- [42:20]
B
Yeah, that was probably like, I, I will, then I will give a shout out to the, like, best PR experience I've ever had last year, which was exactly what you were mentioning then. I was trying desperately to get some kind of geographical matching in terms of distances from the brands. I was sort of halfway through booking the meetings and then I was talking to on the phone because I've got the weird position of writing for the uk, writing for the US or Canada. I'm going to the Pelexpo this year as UK press. But I was talking to Fernanda Zapata, who runs Gigantum PR in the us. She's got Moser, she's got Parmigiani and a few others and Zenith. And she was like, look, why don't you. You want to send me a screenshot of your calendar that you booked and I will suggest meetings for you which are exactly the right time and with the right distance of each other. And she actually sent me, I sent her this screenshot. She sent me, look, you can have 5 o' clock there, 3 o' clock there, 2 o' clock there, and all of a sudden it just like gelled. Whereas the other ones are like, you know. And booking the meetings on the platform is that. You know what that is like? It's just a nightmare.
- [43:36]
A
But, well, thank you for making me feel bad because we know her and she didn't offer us that service. But you know what? We got our steps in. We burned those calories. We were doing a great thing. Cardiovascular exercise, not to be sniffed at, but you're right, it's great when you can have things in an order. And this year I cracked the code for booking in things at Watches and Wonders. I'm not going to tell you on the show how I did it because I don't want everybody copying what I did. I've got a cheat sheet of how to do it within a day, how to get all the brands organized. So yeah, I'll tell you offline how all that came to be, but we really are looking forward to it. We have usually had to fight quite hard to get allocation because as much as we are the world's biggest watch podcast by numbers, by volume, by downloads and how long we've been around, podcasting isn't seen as much as even TikTok, which is really strange because you can get massive viewing figures on TikTok, but it's kids watching a 30 second video clip. It's not seasoned watch buyers, connoisseurs, professionals and industry folks or community folks that really have a passion for this hobby. When it comes to podcasting, we're seen as a little bit like a second class citizen, which is a real shame. But this year we've got great access. We are there Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So we are going to try and cram in as many meetings as possible. We've already filled to the gunwales most of the days, kept the night free so me and Dave can debrief, decompress, digest and then record content on an ongoing basis instead of coming back to the uk trying to remember, remember record release and then we're a week out of the, if not longer. So we're going to try and get a little bit more timely as we are a chronological podcast. But we are coming to the end of our time together for this, your first of many visits, I hope. Anything you'd like to kind of finish the show off on, Anything that's been sitting in your head you wanted to talk about or discuss?
- [45:20]
B
Well, first of all, I'll just say that, yeah, the ewatching one is we're there for the same number of days. I've got 30 meetings booked already and so yeah, I'm looking forward to that. But I will, I will bring up a fun story, an anecdote from tiny watch days last year as we were talking about the lvmh, my big thing there was, well, my sort of most pleasant moment there was having almost 40 minutes sitting down with the amazing Fabrizio Buonamasa Stigliani. I was sitting down with him and he's just such an amazingly welcoming, friendly guy. And we were talking about the whole process of the Octo finissimo and stuff. But then the funny thing was that I did the wrist check in. I showed you one of the watches. I've got another watch here, which I actually had on when I was interviewing Fabrizio and the whole interview derailed after like 2/3 through. And he was like, what are you wearing? And I was like, this is a. This is a Zenith Quartz. Can I have a look? Can I ever take photographs? And I was wearing this really slinky zenith quartz from 1976, ironically, the year Zenith decided to scrap all the mechanical movements and do all quartz. So this is like.
- [46:37]
A
Is this the year of the hole in the wall in the attic?
- [46:41]
B
This is from that year. And this is quartz. And it is. It's got this steel bracelet, it's got this insane quality. I had this on. He just like almost ripped it off my wrist. He was looking at it and he was like, wow, this is really good. Can I take pictures? And he started taking photographs of it. And then at the end of it, he looked at it and he looked at it and he looked at me, he looked at the watch and he said, hmm, you never know, that could
- [47:07]
A
be taken any way at all. And fingers crossed, it's taken in a very good direction going forward. But no, it's been fantastic. I knew when I bumped into you across in Dubai and we were having a very brief chat on the way to something or other, I can't remember, it was a big blur to me, but I thought, you know what, you're a real guy. You don't have some people in the industry, they have got a chip in their shoulder. They think because they're to do with watches, and watches are luxury items, we don't need them, but we obviously love them and we want them that there are slightly above their station. And we're not going to name who we're talking about here, but there are a number of them. You're one of the down to earth guys that, as you say in your collection, you've got things from a couple of hundred bucks up the way, which is the way it should be, and a great recent recommendation. Well, here's a couple of recommendations for you. One, our interview with Mr. Bulgari himself. I was talking about him the other day. I was explaining that it was one of the easiest podcast recordings that I have ever done because I Turned up in Geneva. I sat down Geneva watch days maybe three years ago and I asked the him three questions. I said what's the history of Bulgari? What's the history of aluminium? And what's the story with Octo? And he filled in the rest of the hour just answering those three questions and then I said thank you very much. Press stop. And that was a podcast. That is a great episode to listen to. He is phenomenal. The other recommendation is a guy we had on the show just a couple of weeks back there and that's Jeff Dodge from Formula E. He is the CEO. The head honcho used to work work at various different places as well as with Mr. Or Sir Richard Branson. He was also involved in Honda at Formula One and he was talking about brands that cost insignificant amounts of cash. And he obviously has been around the world a number of times, knows what he's talking about, but was talking about Venezianico Spinnaker in the same breaths as Patek Audemars Piguet. One of his favorite watches is a Genta design that looks like a roulette wheel in gold. Fantastic looking watch. One of the original Octas Inc. Is Roma. So that's another great episode to check out. Plus go through our back catalog. We've got over 750 of them sitting there ready for you. We even had Gerald Jenner's family on a couple of times. Episode 355 and 300 I believe they were. But if people want to check out what you're up to, have you got a website or a link farm or something like that where people can go and see where all your ratings are?
- [49:24]
B
No, I am thinking about it, but I have not got that yet.
- [49:27]
A
But that is us at the end of an episode. Thank you so much for your technical prowess and getting your microphone, your headphones work in absolute unison. It's been fantastic having a chat with you. You will be on soon enough yet again and no doubt we'll catch up either at British Watchmakers Day or over at PAL Expo at Watches and Wonders in about a month's time. So Thor, thank you very much for joining us and we'll catch you again soon.
- [49:48]
B
Goodbye. Goodbye, Sam.