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Scottish Watches Podcast #774 : The Independent View With Pietro
00:54:56
This episode of the Scottish Watches Podcast recaps the whirlwind of Watches and Wonders through the eyes of Pietro from The Limited Edition. Beyond the main Palexpo event, the discussion...
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the Scottish Watches podcast. We have got somebody with us that's going to tell us about the things we missed at Watches Wonders because there was only myself and Dave running around like headless chickens for the duration. Tuesday through to the Friday, the non public days. God only knows what it was like over Saturday and Sunday when the great masses amassed in Geneva Pal Expo to check things out on those public days. But we have Pietro from Limited Edition. He's a familiar face, a familiar voice on the airwaves at Scottish Watches and it's my pleasure to bring him back for his first appearance of 2026. Not just to talk about Watches and Wonders, but all the crazy stuff he's been up to since I last saw him a few months back and since the last time he was on the show because he has got a new place, Pietro's. It is amazing. We did talk about it briefly, but he's going to explain all about it. So, Pietro, how are you doing?
- [00:48]
B
I'm very well, thank you, Ricky. Great to be here back with you. It's becoming a tradition a little bit, hasn't it?
- [00:54]
A
It has been for a long time. And I saw a chronological. I don't even know if you call this a timeline, a train track on your wall in Pietro's the New, where you'd actually highlighted the first time you appeared on our podcast. And we were fledgling. We had only just really started, didn't know what we were doing, still don't know what we're doing. But things have moved on. We're up at nearly 800 episodes, we're in our eighth year and we're close behind you, you know, 10 years last year for you guys, 11 years now. But you just keep moving forward. And the benefit of speaking to you is you open our eyes, you showcase the independence, those untapped hidden gems that we don't get to see. Because when we go to Pal Expo, when we go to Watches and Wonders, we're chaperoned to go and see Tudor. We need to go and we need to go and see these people. You, you just kind of run around the background and you find this and you show me and you send me a WhatsApp. And I'm like, holy Jesus. Never knew these guys existed. What the hell is this? So that is why you're here today. And that's why you'll be checking the show notes, because that's where all the pictures, the text bank, the links, all the juicy gossip and information will be held. So if you're listening, you're in the car, you're at the gym, you're walking the dog, you're doing the chores. You can click on your podcast player, click. The link takes you to our website and you can read through either or as you listen, or afterwards, you can capture all that magic once again in written form. Should we do the wrist checks and kick things off?
- [02:10]
B
Absolutely. I was going to say that over the last 10 years and eight years for you, a lot of things have changed, but our focus on the independence and the artisans has not changed. And sure enough, today I'm wearing the Czapek Rattra Pant first edition. I was lucky enough to have an allocation for prototype number four, so the fourth ever retropant ever made by Trapek. And obviously my friend Xavier, I could twist his arm to be able to get this piece first thing when the retropant was launched. And I'm very happy now because I wear it on a leather strap, which is absolutely my preference for as long as aesthetically. I love the integrated bracelet by Czech. I think they did a great job with that. Its bracelets are not necessarily my thing and since I've put the strap on, it feels like a different watch and I'm very, very happy.
- [03:05]
A
The good thing about the watch you're wearing, first question I'll hit you with there, is what year did that one come out?
- [03:10]
B
The rattrapant was 2021, if I'm not
- [03:14]
A
mistaken, because we're now five years, half a decade down the road from that launch and it still looks as cutting edge as it did back then. A lot of watches that came out during the pandemic, they've dated slightly. Czapek, not the case. Well, that is a fantast. Xavi is a fantastic gentleman. He's been on the show almost the same as yourself. You know, we kind of roll out these people that are good folks within the community and the industry, and we shy away from certain individuals and certain brands because we don't believe the mantra that they peddle to the public. But no, Xavier is amazing and we caught up with him in real life here in Scotland. One of his first think it's his second time in the country. Just a few months back there and we had a fantastic lunch stroke brunch. He was telling us some tales and he was giving us a bit of an insight into what Czupek have got happening in their 11th year. A little bit like your 11th year. So that is a fantastic wrist check. I have not been back to. And this is a bad thing. And I'm going to rectify it before the episode goes out. I have not been back to the safety deposit box to drop off the watches that I wore across in Switzerland. And I kind of forgot the thing that we should all have first and foremost in our mind, and that is safety. I never knew until I came back from Geneva that somebody quite high up in the industry was stabbed because somebody tried to or did steal their watch. And this wasn't walking down the road. This was in one of the establishments that a lot of people, a lot of journalists frequent when they're over in Geneva at different events, watches and wonders, Geneva watch days. And I didn't think of this and it is a bad mark on my character because we're the guys that always bring on the police, the folks from the Met, to talk about watch safety. So the watch I've got on the wrist today will not be on the wrist. It'll be back in Lasgo in the safety deposit box. And it is not my latest pickup because I've got a few pickups that I got in Geneva while I was away, which we'll talk about in a future show. But this is my replacement Daytona because a couple of years ago I got a Ghost, that's the white gold version on oysterflex. Had to sell it to buy my house, but I have replenished the stock. I have got a Rolex back in the collection and it is the watch I was actually after in the first place. So I'd put my name down for a rose gold version and it didn't appear. Then I got the call to say, well, we've got this white gold one if you're interested. And I thought, let's just go for it. You don't know when you're going to get the opportunity again. And at that moment in time, back in 2022, Rolex were still flying very high. Everybody wanted them. They were commanding a lot of money in the secondary market and I didn't want to miss out. So I went ahead, got the Ghost, the silver dialed Sunburst one. And this is the one that actually put my name down for half a decade ago. It finally came in and I thought, yes, now is the time. Time to replenish the stocks. So that's what I've got in the wrist today. And a little bit like Pietro, I didn't want it with the solid metal bracelet. I did get offered it on that. I thought it was just a little bit too much. So a little bit like Pietro, I don't have it on a leather strap, but I have got it on the oysterflex strap. So that is black rubber, black bezel, black subdials, and then rose gold everywhere else. So that's the wrist checks out the way. It's time to talk about what we got up to in Geneva. And you've heard all about myself talking incessantly for the last couple of episodes. It's time for somebody else to take control of the airwaves. So, Pietro, when did you get across?
- [06:17]
B
Well, I was fantasizing about being able to go to Geneva only for three, four days, because now we are lucky enough to have a full team in place. So we were dreaming about, you know, splitting a little bit the task and being able. Not because we don't like to be there, obviously, but because it looked inconspicuous to go there, the full team, you know, four or five people, and stay there the whole time. But then once again, I realized quite quickly that I needed to be there pretty much for the whole week. So I was down on the Monday and I stayed there for a week, basically. And yeah, actually Monday I traveled to. I started my traveling and then I got to Geneva on the Tuesday. I attacked straight away, Time to Watches first for a change this year and then Palexpo.
- [07:07]
A
So tell us about Time to Watches. What is that? We've not actually mentioned this yet.
- [07:11]
B
Yeah. So amazingly, because the world is a very different place to when we started preaching the fact that I believed, always believed, that the heart of watchmaking is linked to the independence and the artisans. And with the big brands being a little bit the ambassadors of what it means and what it feels like to wear a lovely watch like the one you're wearing today. When we started talking about that, there was hardly one exhibition that was taking place in Geneva or in baseline and very focused on mainly the big brands. Now we are in a world where it is normal for Geneva to showcase not one, not two, not three, but four different main exhibition sites during the same week. So you have the PAL Expo and then you have next to the Palex, in a historical villa in Geneva called Villa Sarrazin, you have Time to Watches, which is an independent showcase of independent watchmakers which started with a few brands a few years ago and now this year, if I'm not mistaken, there were over 80 watchmakers exhibit exhibiting that. And you know when I always laugh when people call me a watch expert, because I think, you know, the words, the word expert is, is definitely overrated in our world. And in fact, you know, half of the Watchmakers that were there, I wasn't necessarily familiar with, which is very funny for somebody that says to be specialized in the independence, but it tells you exactly what's happening, is that there is a speed of launching of new watchmakers, new projects, et cetera, that is faster than what our personal knowledge can actually keep up with. And that's only one example, because then you had the ahci, which is obviously the conglomerate of the master watchmakers that are actually officially part of the academy of watch creators, basically. So, founded by George Daniels, sorry, founded by Vincent Calabrese and Sven Anderson in 1984. And George Daniels was famously part of it, and Journe is part of it, and Vienna Alter, Ludovic Valois, Andrea Estrella, Bernard Lederer. So you name it. The most important names as solo watchmakers.
- [09:37]
A
Well, these names that you've mentioned, if people aren't familiar with them, go and do your research. Actually look in the show notes. Mziel will link up who we're talking about here. These are the Michelangelo's, Leonardo da Vinci's of watchmaking.
- [09:49]
B
That's absolutely right. Ajuma Zahoka was there, you know, so even watchmakers you would never see a watch from, because Azim Ozahoka is more than oversubscribed. It's actually impossible to get a watch from him. But on, on that, in that week, you can just get, get, get in there and be able to see stuff that you will never see in other places. So this was the third poll and then there was a fourth poll which was called Chronopolis, which I'm not sure if you have mentioned already, but Chronopoulos was mainly, is, was mainly focused on the low entry level, attainable entry level. So there is a huge dynamism there, as you know very well, whereby there are all these independents pushing at a very attainable price. They're pushing innovation and creativity, giving options to collectors. So if you add to this the Beau Rivage hotel, which in every suite of the Beau Rivage there was a different watchmaker or a different brand. I mean, there were at least five actually, I said four, but it's actually five if you think about it, locations where you needed to spend time. And I managed to do that because for once I didn't just book back to back meetings for the whole week, running like a headless chicken, but I managed to actually have some thinking time and make decisions on the spot, as in when and where I needed to go on the day. So yeah, and in that respect, I think it was the best. I've done this for 25 times, believe it or not, I'm that old. And this was one of the very, very best. I had a great time, actually.
- [11:24]
A
We did too. And we've had a lot of chats with not just people within the industry, not just media folks, but collectors, enthusiasts, people that went on the public days and people that didn't. And my thought process of everything that's happened over the last couple of weeks is it is very polished. All the independent places like you mentioned, Air Chronopoulos, Time to Watches, etc, etc, they've got their game plan sorted, they've done this, you've done it for 25 years. These independent things, maybe a few years, five years, etc. They've got it together, they know how to do it. Everything falls into place. And even at PAL Expo, when we were there, myself and Dave and a few other people that turned up, it was regimented, it worked like clockwork, as it should. Whereas maybe in previous years there's been a few stragglers or wild cards or crazy things that have happened that have changed and derailed the situation. It just felt pretty smooth. And a lot of people said it was boring. I don't think it was boring. I think it was just the normal companies that we hear about and speak about all the time, they work on a timeline. So if they have an idea, it will take 2, 3, 5 years to come to fruition. So maybe we're seeing things just now that started on a drawing board maybe four years ago or three years ago, when things were a little bit more, I don't know, changed in the world. Whereas these independents you're talking about, they can spin things up. We've worked with different brands in the past. We were doing something with Formex and we can have something created, designed, put together, prototyped, and then on the rest of an individual within six months. That doesn't happen with the larger conglomerates. So these independents that you speak about. We speak about, they are the trendsetters, the trailblazers, the ones that can dive ahead, spot something that's happening and actually fill a niche and get things out there quickly. So let's talk about what you saw, what things appealed to you. What would you say would be your standout watch or watches of the entirety of the events?
- [13:11]
B
I felt that quiet that people were talking about. Some people translated that into being boring. And I respectfully also disagree with the being boring. I think because my experience this year was quite well structured. I really had the time to look and see and spend proper time by discovering stuff. So I have a pretty clear idea of what I liked and what I didn't like. I'm not going to talk now here about some of the big brands. You know, obviously cafeteria was on the. On the. On the. Everybody's mouth and you had extraordinary things from Parmigiani, from Lange, from Ulysse Nardan. So some of the big. Of the big guys really brought. Brought up the big guns in terms of the independence. I think though there was one watch that for me not only was the epitome of what being independent mean means, but also all across all the watches that I've seen in the exhibition, for me was one of the very best. And if money was no object, because I'm not, obviously we're not going to talk about how attainable or not attainable the watch is going to be, but from the pure horological perspective, I thought the Arnold, sorry, The Armin Strom 1259 minute repeater resonance was. Was something incredible. Absolutely incredible. I thought they have completely nailed it in encapsulating what they stand for and what the 16 years of revamp of legendary name took and how far they managed, they managed to go. Because in this piece is not just a great complex piece, but it's also in house made in house developed in house conceived in house engineered and in house finished. So there's everything, there's a lot of the personality of the watchmaker behind Claude, of course is Claude Greisler is the horological motto behind Armin Strom, together with obviously Serge Michel, who is the driver, he drives the company since revamping the name of Armin Strom, the watchmaker that was famous for introducing the technique of skeletonization in watchmaking and the first lessons of skeletonization in Switzerland. They have really innovated, invented and proposed an incredible way of doing watchmaking. And this piece for me represents all of that. I don't know if you had time to go and see.
- [15:47]
A
It was I think our first appointment of watches and wonders. We arrived, we get the option to choose which day we come in, which day we go to the show. And I wanted to be there for the maximum amount of time. So we decided to go on the Tuesday, but it meant we were caught in the airport before we could actually get to the show. So we turned up with our suitcases and our camera equipment and everything and we humped it into PAL Expo. And the first place we went to was Aaron Strom, because we went to see them last year and I Would say last year they didn't set the world on fire because all it really appeared to be was they changed something to be purple. This year they brought their A game they brought which the presenter told me was their most expensive piece yet to the show. And they showed us it, they let us play with it, they let us listen to it. And we thought, okay, we're either going to see a lot of watches that are in the stratosphere at the highest possible point, or we're going to see all the really inexpensive stuff. And we saw both. There was no middle ground this year. There was lots of entry level, lots of the best of the best. And Armin Strom really set the world on fire for us. And it was the best start to the show, but also the worst because it meant everything we saw after it was probably going to be a lot worse.
- [16:56]
B
And it's. Yeah. If you look inside what the watch was, the fact of you can now integrate a minute repeater, which is actually a foregone minute repeater, when Spitzer minute repeater with a modified version of the patented resonance module that made Armindstrom obviously famous for using this special resonance module that leverages honest on a clutch system. But not only that, but to make the size palatable, of course, and to keep it under check, I think is only 42 millimeters. The watch, they actually managed to modify the size of the module resonance module itself. Then the fact that on demand you can actually request the melody to sound as if it was 1259, which is the best sound that you can ever get. Of course, when you looking at minute repeaters, which by the way, I'm sure most of your listeners will know minute repeaters were obviously invented at the time when there was no light. To be able to know what time it was without having to obviously turn lit up your candle in those days. Yeah, it's just amazing. And the fact that it's relatively small companies being able to internalize all the competencies and then the knowledge, the engineering and the finishing to be able to churn churn out a piece like this is fascinating. And again, it brings home the idea that yes, the independents can really get wherever they've been working on for such a long time.
- [18:31]
A
Well, we've got to pay thanks to you because if it wasn't for you, we wouldn't have been introduced to Armin Strom. And we had the folks on many, many years ago because you organized things behind the scenes. And we recorded a podcast with them. We've done a number of them now and bringing the two gentlemen on, they told us the history of the new Armin Strom. And then when he was getting a little bit too old to operate the machinery and he was thinking, what do I do with my business? They took it on and they brought it in the 21st century with a bang. And the stuff they produce is not all crazy. 300,000 Swiss francs and above. They start in the teens and they put just as much effort, ingenuity, intelligence and prowess into every design and every module and every movement. They've created new ways of displaying the date when you thought everything had already been invented. So they are fantastic folks. We got to chat with them briefly, although they were very busy at the show. And you're right that 1259, being able to press a button on the side and activate everything, it's like going into richer sounds or one of the TV shops and looking at an OLED in demo mode. Do you want to see the splendor, the saturation, everything at its best? And it's a pain in the ass trying to set a watch so you can set that off. So that was a great idea. And it's pub ammo. You go down, you meet your friend, you're at a meet, whatever it is, or you're just bored and you're. And you want to hear the gongs kicking off fantastic stuff. Who else was sort of on your top 10, top 5, top 3 list?
- [19:56]
B
So I have two that were definitely my top five, but they've not been released yet. So I don't know Mozill, what he's going to be able to do in terms of the show notes.
- [20:06]
A
He will do nothing. This recording is happening on Friday the 24th, and this is going to be out by Monday, so we'll keep a lid on that maybe for your next one. Okay. Of the watches that are public as of recording and releasing in this episode, what else stood out for you?
- [20:20]
B
Yeah, just make a point on that very thing. Also, that's what the exhibition in Geneva gives you the opportunity to do, to discover things that actually have not been released. And you can actually have your opinion, because most, you know, most of the humble watchmakers, they would ask you, what do you think about these? We're going to launch you in a few weeks. What do you think? Shall we go for a brush dial? Shall we go more for a frosted dial, you know, et cetera, et cetera? And that's an activity that I really enjoy this here. And one of them you'll find out soon, because it's our own limited edition. And the other one, I'll explain obviously when I'm on the next time. But yeah, there are quite a few new things coming up in terms of things I managed to see for the first time and really impressed me. There is a. In this wave of new watchmakers. You know, Ricky now saying that watchmaking is a form of art is the most obvious thing we can say. But 10 years ago, watchmaking was not even in the UNESCO patrimony as a form of art. And it's happened in the meantime as we were developing our project with the limited edition. So if it's a form of art, it means there are artists, new artists coming up every year with new ideas, new products, new ways of intending watchmaking. And so there is a wave of names and one of them is Didier Cavazino. Didier Cavazino made one of the best tourbillons. And I was aware obviously of him being busy and I saw in his old town Geneva workshop, I saw his tourbillon for the first time and I was very, very impressed with the concept, with how he has found his own identity straight away, horological identity and how well finished and engineered the whole thing is like him. There are other names like Samuel Gillot, Samuel Solyac or Stefan Pierre. There's a new wave of watchmakers that is coming, unfortunately, sometimes the insiders have a first kind of entry to these names because they are so underground that they can't be. They are not featured until when they are sell out, basically. But being on an event like that and listening to people talking, spending time with collectors, you can find the right links and the right ways to end up in these small adventures where you would discover something that has not been seen before. Now the Cavazino tourbillon has been released, so I'm sure the museum will be able to do a good job in the show notes. Have a look at that and let me know what you think there was, because as I said before, five different cool locations were the main locations. But then there was a number of watchmakers that were doing their own thing. So there was on a road parallel to Quai de Mont Blanc, where Beaurivage is, there was a small exhibition of two watchmakers. One is Frederic Jouveno and the second one was Breva. And both of them managed to get my top five list of the best watches I've seen. Frederic Juveno as reinterpreted basically his sundial concept by making his timepieces a little bit more Wearable because before it was a bigger, bigger case sizes and a bit, a little bit more somber way of in aesthetics. Whereas now is brightened up. The whole concept is made it smaller. And his Helios tradition is a piece that is really, really very interesting and very, very well done. Frederick was the guy. Fred is perfect for a podcast. He's the guy that started Concepto Concepto watching. Yeah, he started obviously I want to say nearly 20 years ago and now he's doing his whole thing, his own thing. And yeah, so he's a watch movement conceiver and manufacturer and he. Yeah, he creates his own movements with a very, very different way of telling the time.
- [24:26]
A
Well, before we move on, make a note because my memory is shit, make a note to get in touch with him and ask him if he'd like to come onto the show and me and you can co host.
- [24:35]
B
Yes, we can do. We can do that definitely. Yeah. Together with Frederick there was. There was another brand, Breva. Breva was if you. I'm not sure if you remember Ricky, but pre Pandemic and actually probably 15 years ago when being an independent was still a very, very risky, risky business. Some independents like obviously orvoc or MB and F or debut and they managed to navigate those tricky times and do very well. Some others tried and they disappeared and Brevo was one of them probably because they went a little bit too far because they had a watch that could mechanically have the weather forecast on. The dialogue at the time absolutely mental. Which, which did well but not well enough for the brand to actually keep. Keep operating. So they folded and. And now it's been revamped last year I think and they have this very, very good looking new watch which has actually a double power reserve indicator. On one side it will give you the days and on the other side it will give you the hours. And he has a. It looks a bit like a double retrograde indication, but he's based on the power reserve. Very pretty. It's called Segretto di Lario. So loosely inspired to Lario is the. Is the area of Lake Como in Italy. And yeah, very, very pretty, pretty watch. And the movement has been developed in collaboration with Jean Francois Mougon of Corone who famously also helped, you know, the likes of MB and F or czapeg. They're beginning to develop their first calibers and so many other watchmakers. So these are two that if I suppose probably are not. Are not the easy choice. But I think most people would agree that these are really good looking watches. I could add another one. I am a bit biased because this is a friend that used to work with me at Richmond back in the day. He was the head designer of Panerai and now he runs his own brand and that's Marco Borrachino from Singer. And for me, whatever he touches, you know, it turns into gold after. After killing it with the launch of the Caballero and the Heritage last year, he's come back with a slightly bigger case size concept with a dual track, which is actually an adaptation of the Fly truck to Dual Time. So it's the first Dual Time by Singer. I put it on my wrist. I absolutely loved it. The design, the line, the idea, the functionality, how efficient it is to, to maneuver. So that was one of my big highlights. But again then I like everything Marco does, so I don't know how objective this would be.
- [27:35]
A
Well, I remember the collaboration limited edition Singer watch from a number of years ago and how happy you were. Almost like a kid in a sweet shop when you said, look at this. And then you showed us what you'd produced. And they've always done amazing things. But a question I've got because I can't remember myself is what is the link up between Singer and the car company?
- [27:55]
B
Yeah, yeah. So they're virtually part of the same company. So Single Vehicle Design basically started a company with Marco for the creation and distribution of luxury timepieces. So Marco took on that challenge, whereas obviously Mr. Dickinson, who is the partner, Marco's partner, takes care of the vehicle design part. I know that they are obviously US based, but they also have a branch in, in the uk which is fairly a secret thing, but I know, I know there is binding operations and I know that Marco takes infinite inspiration from the world of cars, obviously Single Vehicle Design, they specialize in restoration of Porsche cars and they turn them into the most amazing thing you'll ever see in your life if you are a car, a car addict. So, yeah, that's, that's the context to that.
- [29:02]
A
The reason I bring it up is I couldn't remember if there was still the link or what went on behind the scenes because I've seen a lot of Singer developed cars appearing on the Top Gear channel over the past couple of months. And I know they have to be careful with their terminology because they don't want to upset the folks in Stuttgart, but they make amazing vehicles. It's almost like if you don't know what we're talking about. Show notes I your friend. But taking a Porsche car 911 whatever it is. Sometimes they've done 944s, 928s and taking it into the Blade Runner, the cyberpunk era. That's what they do with these cars. And sometimes you can have something that has got all the lustre and the history of something from the 60s or the 70s with 21st century. We've mentioned this, a couple of them, 21st century technology, the latest and the greatest. So yeah, something else to look at if you're a petrol head like myself and Pietro. Well, we've talked about some of the indies. Why don't we cast our mind back and look at some of the bigger players, the ones that other people have spoken about maybe in prior episodes of the show. Was there anything from the conglomerates or the non independents that floated your boat?
- [30:03]
B
I mentioned before, I really like what Cartier is doing because we live times where things are changing so rapidly that for a massive brand that has been such a massive point of reference, not only in the design sphere but also in the engineering of a certain kind of watchmaking, I think they are, they are consolidating their position of that kind of point of reference. So what they're doing with, you know, with the crush skeleton, for example, to keep that edge that makes Cartier so interesting as my admiration. You may not expect it, but yeah, I like, I do like Cartier. Another one that for me is doing a fantastic job is Bulgarian, which. Yeah, that's a disclaimer. So it's not Bulgari, but it's actually Bulgari and Bulgari I, hands down, I was so stupid when I thought that the integration of Gerald Genta and Daniel Roth would have not brought any of the three names anywhere at the time when Bulgari integrated those two names. Now, as we all know, Daniel Roth has become, you know, has been revamped by the LVMH group as a standalone watchmaker. But 15, 17 years ago it was Bulgari that integrated those two names and that's where the Octo basically saga was taken to the next level, incorporating some of the aesthetics of both Gerald Genta and Daniel Roth and becoming the incredible collection that is now, I think they launched. Is it 39 millimeters octo finicium that was launched. Was it 37? 37, you may be right, yeah, yeah. Anyway, small, small octofinissimo Dave sized watches,
- [32:02]
A
we did talk about this because he can't wear the bigger one. It hits that little nub on his wrist, the bony part, whereas the smaller size he could actually wear it. And I could see his little cogs ticking away going, can I get away with buying this one?
- [32:14]
B
Yeah, I, I hate trends. And the fact that everyone is telling me that watches have to be small these days, I don't buy into that because 20 years ago everyone was saying that watches should be big. So I don't buy into trends, but I do think that depending on, I mean, every brand has its own identity and it's not easy to make things work from the design perspective, the mechanics and, and whatever legacy you're trying to build. So the Octo Finissimo was a big watch. Now in a smaller version, I would have struggled to imagine it. Now I've seen it and it really works and it's beautiful. So huge. Congratulations. I saw the IWC space watch. I think the, excuse me, I forgot, I forgot the technical name of the timepiece. But I can see a real effort to really innovate and find a different identity to what IWC has classically been, which for an Italian like me, you know, the Portuguese and, you know, and the classic IWCs are what sticks in your mind. The engineer, I think you also because it was designed by Gerald Genta. So they're trying to move away to show some kind of edgy creativity which is, which was something that maybe was, was lacking to some extent. And again, it pleases me because I can see how, how much the influence of the, of the independent is playing a role also on the big, on the big guys. Because let's face it, Ricky, I think we're going into a place where if you're not into watches, you're going to, you know, the big brands will hold on to that market of people that are not necessarily ultra passionate about watches. They, they would buy a watch for, for an occasion, for a birthday, for a, for a wedding anniversary, for graduation. And 99% of the time that would be a famous brand watch. Whereas for the geeks, the geeks, 20 years ago we were fed by, by the media and by a very, very institutionalized marketing. Whereas now the watch geeks, they get information from all five corners of the earth at any time, any moment, every night. You can be online 12 hours and you're going to build a massive knowledge and you're going to discover the independence and the fact that the independence are the heart of the current watchmaking scene. So I think there will be more and more this dichotomy, you know, luxury for a treat and a luxury for a self treat. So when it's a self treat, is the independence. When it's more about celebrating or investing your money or whatever the motivation could be, then the big brands are still holding on to that market. That's how I see it at the moment.
- [35:01]
A
Well, I see things through this lens a lot more with yourself because maybe when we first started to know each other, it was Konstantin Chaikin, it was Armin Strom, and the price point started in the low teens, but you've expanded in both directions simultaneously. You have got the latest Arminstrom at 300 and whatever it is, thousand Swiss francs. But you've also got other players in the market. You have got some independents from far flung places that are playing in a lower price point arena, such as Awake. You're now dealing with those guys.
- [35:33]
B
Yes, that's correct. There is an incredible dynamism at the attainable price point where to some extent it's even more difficult to surprise the clients and the watch lovers because you have clear borders that you can't surpass in terms of price, positioning, et cetera. So when money is object, it's more difficult to be innovative and inventive. And yeah, Amida, Amida, Awake, Space one, they're doing an incredible job. And actually at Chronopolis there was a perfect showcase for that. And I again, I've seen one watch that really stroke me that is going to be presented at the beginning of May, which was a collaboration between two of these of these brands. And you'll find out very soon. But yeah, it was pretty, pretty amazing to see.
- [36:24]
A
I'm in your little WhatsApp group that you've talked about before on the show. And I implore anybody who's interested in what we're talking about today to get involved in this because it's not a sales tactic, it's more an information base. And you do not just drop information and constant messages day in, day out, 24, seven. It's very selective, it's very curated and everything that appears in it is very informative without being, as I say, being sold to, marketed to. And I think the passion still bleeds through. You've been doing this for a quarter of a century and doing your own thing for over 10 years now. And it doesn't matter the price point. It can be an awake watch at 5k. It can be a Garrick watch in the teens up the way. It can be crazy, all kinds of stuff, talking, 2, 3, 400,000. You apply the same thought process and the same passion to everything, no matter the price point. And some people don't do do that. They always try and push you towards something where they're going to benefit, they're going to profiteer from it, and you never have done that. But now that we've covered all the stuff that's happened across the pond or across the waters, tell us more about what's happening here in the uk. Because I got to see Pietro's for the first time in real life, as you still had the architect and as you were still putting things up on the wall. So I think I got the lead on everybody else. But now that you've got your feet under the desk in new premises, you've had a few masterful events that I have seen on all the platforms. YouTube, which is growing day by day for you guys, your Instagram channel and your website, give us the run through on Pietro's and how it's all coming along.
- [37:53]
B
Yeah. If 10 years ago this world of independence was a bit of a hidden gem and a secret that we discovered together, Ricky, now everyone knows that, you know, there is, there is, it's viable, it's a viable niche within a huge industry, which is the world of watchmaking. So we, as the limited edition, we can't stop innovating like the brands we represent do. So we can't just sleep and wait and stay on the old concept that we have developed 10 years ago. But we have to find ways of renewing and keeping the fun that was associated with the limited edition before the fun was all related to the online. I think we did a great job during the pandemic also, thanks to your help, where TLE was a dynamic reality, you know, online. But now is the time for us. We have built our customer base. We have over 1,500 clients, active clients. We have an audience that is expanding on, on YouTube, as you said. I can't quite believe we are over 250,000 subscribers, God knows how. And so we have to keep innovating and keep reaching the services that we can give to our audience. Yes, it's a business, so we sell watches, but actually more than selling watches, I think we sell the hobby of collecting watches. So ways of enjoying the hobby of collecting watches, the buying is obviously the end result. And what can we do to help people to enjoy this fantastic hobby even more? That's what is in my mind and that's why we decided to have a physical presence in the heart of London, near Oxford Circus. We never wanted to have a shop, so we, we've decided to go for a lounge space called Pietro's. It's Not a massive ego. Ego trip, but it's because obviously Pietro's gives the idea of a More of a personal place that if, you know,
- [39:54]
A
you know, I'll jump in and say, this wasn't your idea. I spoke to Sam. This was not your idea. Everybody else pushed you into doing this. You hated the idea of using your own name. But it works because everybody knows Pietro. Everybody knows the name, the face. And as much as you can try and separate yourself from the limited edition, you're fused together. You ain't going to break that molecular bond. So I think it's the perfect name and it makes you feel at ease. It's not. Oh, I've got an appointment at the limited edition. I'm going to go in there and it's going to be a bit suited and booted. Going to Pietro's, it just feels relaxed and that is the atmosphere you want to be when you're looking at fantastic timepieces.
- [40:29]
B
Yeah. And I guess. I guess I had to agree that it was a good idea exactly. For what you just explained also because, incidentally, you've seen the place. It's a place where, yes, there are watches around, but it's one of the things, everything has a meaning, you know, from the. All the accessories of the funky objects related or not related to watchmaking that we have in the. In the room.
- [40:52]
A
Oh, can you tell me about one of them? Because you showed me this as I was about to jump in a taxi to head back home. There was like a watch or a clock making kit. It was adult Meccano. What was that all about?
- [41:04]
B
Exactly? That's a GPG winner by French, shall we say, watchmakers Maison Alse. They have basically created a clock that you can put together yourself. And there is a fantastic little box with all the parts that are beautifully made and finished and a book that explains you the history of watchmaking and then puts you on a challenge to actually create and put together your own clock. So that's, that's. We, we. We've done two things. We have the. The finished clock on one side and then the kit on the other side. So you can see from the conception to the final result what, how it's going to end up. So, yeah, every. We have clock two clocks as well, where you read the time in words as opposed to in digits. We have also your friend Ben Rousseau clock as well on a wall. We have all sorts of watch winders. We have books about the history of watchmaking. We have original prints from some of the watchmakers, like Konstantin Chaykin. With the sketches of. The technical sketches of some of the watches. There is a curated collection of cigars, of whiskeys as well, of red wine, everything to kind of being in a place where you can have conversations. You can again enjoy the hobby of collecting watches and not necessarily just be in a transitional, transactional, even environment, which you would normally have on the high street where you enter in a shop, they ask you what you want and you say, I want that, and then pay and then move.
- [42:50]
A
So
- [42:52]
B
it's a different thing. I spend part of my week there, part of my week in Leicester, our hq, and I marry the two things, and I have two different experiences myself. So I've built myself a nice job, work environment that I can really enjoy. Both sides.
- [43:09]
A
One last thing to talk about before we end the show. Well, one thing on my side I want to talk about is you gave me a gift as I was leaving the new showroom, Pietro's, the lounge. And you signed it because it was your book. Obviously. Last year I couldn't get across to your grand. I don't even know what you call it, the culmination of the 10 years, the big party that you threw. But Dave was along and he's useless. He never managed to bring one of the books home. But I did this time around. It's one of those things. In the last year we've talked about a number of books, and for the past seven years we have not talked about books because we hardly got any. We had the Czupek book, we had Mr. Rolex's book, we had compendium one from Ken Kessler at Christopher Ward. We've had all these things. But your book, your book is the one that actually sits in the coffee table downstairs, because inside it is like Wikipedia for independent watchmakers. Every couple of pages, every double page spread that you flick through, it's a picture of a massive watch with all the information on the watch and the creator and how it came to be. So how did this book come along? How long did it take to put together? And are you going to do another one?
- [44:12]
B
Yeah. So in the many ways, we were lucky to. To celebrate our 10th anniversary last year, there was this idea of creating something that could have been remembered and could have really marked the moment for the foreseeable future. So I couldn't see how I could have completed such a project on my own, because already we were organizing everything for the 10th anniversary. We're organizing limited editions that we wanted to celebrate 10th anniversary, the event that was huge. So it was Kind of a bit of a dream until when I shared it with one of my friends who was also the editor of Watch Affinity, which is a very, very nice blog that has been going for years now. A blog with no agenda, so it's not a commercial blog, is a blog that actually is fed by the love of watches. And so Marcus Randall decided to volunteer to actually collaborate with me and write the book because I never wanted to have a catalog and call it a book. I wanted a book. So something that could tell a story, obviously from our perspective or from the perspective of the editor and the writer, Marcus, but something that had a curation and had an idea about which brands, which watchmakers we wanted to. And those watchmakers were the ones that helped to celebrate the 10th anniversary. So for the future there may be another one because I also feel like I want to feature some more of the watchmakers we work with because we couldn't put them all in the first edition. But I have the hope that like you are doing, this can be a useful little compendium of watches, watchmakers and stories that are not the obvious ones that you would read on a watch magazine, you know, as a byproduct of advertising or editorial. But it's a very independent project and even the brands, they all, they only proofread what you know, the write ups, but they never dictated, you know, so it's completely off. Marcus Cuff. Yeah. So yeah, I'm very proud. And we, when you, when you buy a watch from the limited edition, you always receive a meaningful presentation and the book is one of them. The limited edition Monte Grappa pen is another one that we have. So we always try to add. Again, coming back to the hobby of collecting as opposed to just buying stuff, we try to put meaning in whatever it is that we do.
- [46:49]
A
The book is fantastic, multiple reasons. I looked at it myself, but I don't have much ownership of it any longer because Simona took control. She's commandeered the page count and obviously I've mentioned on the show numerous times that she is now working for Scottish Watches full time. Because I don't have the time to do everything myself. Recording shows, preparing shows, two podcasts, one video a week. It's a lot to take on. Plus all the emails, the collaborations that we do, the events we go to, the tours that we're organizing and everything else. It's just a lot to have. And Dave, obviously he does the show with me, but he works for Araj, so his time is limited as well. We've got a Fantastic team like Pietro does. We've got Philologus, we've got Mziel, we've got Ralph, we've got Mark, we've got Sarah, Barbara, etc, etc. But the whole cohesive team comes together and this book has been something that Simona has referred to. She sat down and she's having a coffee to read about and she comes to me with pages and says, have you ever seen this? Have you seen this in real life? Has Pietro shown you this? So it has taken on a life of its own within our household and also in our business with Scottish watches, because it is fantastic and last year was a high watermark for different books and different releases and it has been riding the waves. But before we finish up, because we've got a few minutes left, anything you want to tell us about that might be coming down the line? Some new releases or things that you're quite excited about across 2026?
- [48:12]
B
Yeah. So one of the watches I couldn't really mention is a collaboration with Arnold and Son that we're going to launch now. All be well in May, which is again, a very meaningful celebration of our opening of Pietro's in London and the fact that it's based in London. So for those that have already seen the first prototype, I know that it's going to be a big one, but let me know, you can contact me privately and I can give you maybe a cheeky preview of what we've been cooking on that one. If you want to come and see us at Pietro's, we don't just officially communicate the address, but it's not far from Oxford Circus and you can just send WhatsApp through the website or you can also log on onto your account on the limited edition website and you can book an appointment there. On appointment, it doesn't mean that we're not open. The space is open every day from actually 11am until 10pm, but we. We work on appointment because we want to make sure we give the right service to. To everyone and the right time to everyone.
- [49:19]
A
Let me just interject slightly there, because London has got a rep, which is not completely undeserved about security. And when I came down, this is before you had even opened, you had a couple of security staff in the place at all times. And to get in there is a bit of a. It's not an airlock system. It's not like when you go to New York and you go in and there's a thing and then there's another thing to get through, but it's Quite similar to that. So if any nefarious folks are thinking of giving a go to this, it ain't going to work out for you. I felt the most comfortable I had in London and I was there for a good few days coming to see you because everything about it, it's almost like when you look at the Secret service or you look at an attache with a political person, there's always the guy in the background that looks as if he's got the fake hand because you know that underneath there is something there that is going to defend and protect. That is how I felt coming to you guys. And nobody should feel dissuade about visiting you in London. Anyway, carry on. Sorry I jumped in there.
- [50:17]
B
Yeah, yeah, no, but we, we really thought that through very, very carefully. And it was also part of the reflection of having a private space and not being like a public space. Because I reckon that if you are interested in the sort of watchmakers that we retail you, you, you left to have a certain knowledge that would easily help you to find your ways to, to contact us into and to organize a meeting. And yeah, and security is paramount. But once you're in, it's a very, very relaxed, chilled environment. There is a, there is even a terrace at this time of the year is absolutely a treat. So in the terrace, it's an all year round terrace. So it will work also in the winter, but this time of the year is special. So yeah, get in touch and there are ways and we have our protocol but you know, obviously it is an inclusive place as opposed to being exclusive. So yeah, you get in touch and that's the best place to find out about what's gonna happen next in the world of independent watchmaking. Because guess what, every day there's something new going on. And like you said, Ricky, I think the best way, if you sign up to our WhatsApp broadcast, that's the best way to have insider information previews that can really keep you in the loop to avoid hype. I hate hype. From my perspective is one big mistake that has been made in watchmaking over the last few years and so be able to make your own decisions about your next acquisition in a calculator, reflective and chilled way. So having the information is the knowledge is the power that helps you to then enjoy every single purchase and not regret it afterwards. Which is also another big. Can be a big issue.
- [52:05]
A
We hear all the horror stories in horology and I am putting my hand in my heart to say we've never had one person complain about Pietro or the limited edition. The only complaint we've ever heard is that they can't get hold of a release because it's sold out so quickly. But again, that is a good thing. It means that they are doing what they do best for everyone. So definitely get in touch with them. The WhatsApp details, pretty hard to find. I couldn't find them at Christmas time when I was looking. So I will get Mziel to put them in our show notes in case you can't deduce them from the limited edition website. And there's also lots of other things that we've not had a chance to really go through here. Pietro curates not just brand new but pre loved stuff. If it's very special, perhaps you're looking for a specific piece. You can get in touch with him and through his network of collectors, he may be able to help you out with something from the the past that has been well looked after and is in pristine condition. But that is kind of all we've got time for. Just now. We will be heading back down to London later on the year. We're doing our UK tour and we're going to end up the culmination. The finish line is going to be at Pietro's in London after we work our way through all the different places in the uk. I don't know how long it's going to be. I originally thought it'd be five days. I think it's probably going to more like seven to 10 days with the amount of stops that we need to make at different places. Some of the indies that we talk about in the show, we're going to see Garrick, we're going to see Christopher Ward, we're going to see Studio Underdog. But then there's going to be some untapped places in the UK that we're going to drop off at along that route. So stay tuned for that. Obviously. Follow us. We're out twice a week, Mondays and Thursdays. You can catch us in all your podcast places. Spotify, Apple, Google, Amazon. We're here, there and everywhere. Follow us online on Instagram, ottottishwatches and get in touch. Drop us an email infooottishwatches.co.uk if people are looking to follow you, Pietro, where should they look?
- [53:49]
B
Yeah, so the website is thelimitededition.co.uk and our YouTube channel is also the limited edition. So yeah, these are the main, the main ones. You'll find a WhatsApp number on the website as well if you want to enter that straight, you know, straight channel and receive previews and information from our site directly.
- [54:11]
A
Fantastic. So that is us. Thank you for joining us and we'll catch you again soon.
- [54:15]
B
Thank you. See you soon, Sam.