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Scottish Watches Podcast #775 : We Talk To Christopher Ward’s CEO About The New Sealander Watches
01:04:33
Christopher Ward unveils the next evolution of their most popular collection: the Sealander. Rather than a simple refresh, this update represents the culmination of years of incremental technical refinement. Five...
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Scottish Watches Podcast. It's one of those genuine unboxing episodes. I've had a care package delivered. The folks at Crispr Ward have been good to me, although it has to go back. I have to say that I have to be genuine and tell you ahead of time, I don't even know what's in here. I don't know which model it is, which iteration it is, what colorway it's going to be or what material it's going to be made from. But we do have the man with a plan, the master plan. That is Mike France from Chris Reward hq. He's with us for the first time in a very, very long time and we're going to find out what is inside this box today. Mike, how are you doing?
- [00:32]
B
I'm doing very well, Ricky, how are you?
- [00:34]
A
I'm good. I don't like surprises because generally they're from my accountant and I start crying afterwards. But this could be a good one. This could be a good unboxing experience because you've been on a roll. Oh, God. Recently, we were actually chatting with one of your good friends. It was Nicholas Bowens gargle from the Fierce Watch Company. He was celebrating, or is celebrating, 10 years of bringing his brand back from the brink or back from obscurity didn't exist. And he was saying some amazing things about the help, the genuine help, great compassion and support that you and the team at Christopher Ward have given him over the years. So he was singing commendations and I knew that this was coming in. I knew this was going to be the next thing on our agenda. But we'll get to this shortly. Going to keep you on Tenderhooks. We're going to chat a little bit more about what's been happening with Christopher Ward over the last year, because it's been a bumper year. I can't believe it is one year since you were last on the show for a full hour to tell us
- [01:23]
B
what's been happening, as you say, pretty, pretty big year. I mean, we're not very far away from the anniversary of Liberation Day, are we? So the great Donald certainly kicked the year off in fine style with his. With his. Remember his tariff Board outside the White House in the Rose Garden, I think it is. So apart from dodging. Dodging tariffs during the course of the year, which we may talk about a little bit, dodging World War 3 in terms of CW and watch launches, it was this time last year we were coming up to the launch of something very significant for us, which was the Loco. And I think that was probably the, the topic of conversation by and large that we had at the time. Rick, if I'm not mistaken, the Loco has been, you know, huge success for us. If you wind forward to when we last spoke only a few weeks ago at British Watchmakers Day, I was mischievously, as is my wont, wearing something on my wrist that day, which is sort of a further development of the Loco. Not, not completely unattached to the watch that presented on British Watchmakers Day. The 10 piece limited edition, which I
- [02:33]
A
hear sold out in record time.
- [02:36]
B
It did, I mean, 24 minutes. If we could have processed the sales faster, it would have been about five minutes. But you've got to go through an EPOS system. I mean, that was amazing in itself because when I was coming into, coming into the show, as you know, it's at Lindley hall, which is a brilliant venue in Westminster, and I come in and walk from Victoria Station and the previous two years I was walking towards Lindy hall, coming from the back of it, if you like, and I encountered very long queues and I'm arriving probably early, I don't know, 8:30, something like that. This time there were no queues and I was, honestly, I was, oh, God, has our luck run out? Is it all over? Until I turned the corner and of course they decided to queue them round the block the other way. The queue was even longer than it had been in the first two years. But the guy at the head of the queue was from Florida and he'd been queuing since 4.30am you will remember it was a cold day. Yeah. And he didn't have the.
- [03:45]
A
I'm from Scotland, that means nothing to me.
- [03:49]
B
Okay. Yeah. They say it doesn't quite relate to you, but he was from Miami so it really did relate to him. He was freezing cold, absolutely free and he'd been there standing there since 4:30am and he wasn't going to get in for another hour and a half. Anyway. I said, what, what, what brings you over here? He comes specifically to purchase one of our limited editions. The good news is when the doors opened and there was the early, you know, those in the queue ran towards, you know, into the, into the venue and a load of them ran towards our stand, which is at the back of the, the hall. Somebody beat him. And we had to convince the person who beat him that the guy from Florida ought really to have 001 serial number one. We managed to get him limited edition number one, which made his trip from Miami even more special. So I was delighted about that, but it was a. I mean, we were going to talk about it later on, no doubt, but what a great day British Watchmakers Day was again this year, the extended session, which we were. Again, we. We were little concerned about how would it fare against the other two sessions which are normally. Have always been manic. It was brilliant. I mean, I think it gave a new sense of energy to the event rather than took the energy level down. And talking to many of the exhibitors, including people like yourself, I know it was just. It's just one of those great days. And I do think for British brands, it's the day they pencil into their calendar first every year now. And that's, if you go back, not that long, three, four, five years. We would never have thought that, would we? So it's a very, very, very good time for British Watchmaker. And so we are part of that, I suppose. Renaissance and the Loco was fantastic for us.
- [05:43]
A
Well, before you get too ahead of yourself there, because you are moving ahead like a locomotive, I'm going to admit something on the show that I didn't really want to admit, but it's exactly the same thought process that you had. Because I was staying in a hotel that is one street away. I think it's called the Blue Orchid, the Wellington something. And you're right, two years ago, because last year I was not there, obviously getting married, so I had the ability to look at a year missing in the middle. What was year one like, what was year three like? And when I came out of the hotel, wandered down at half nine and saw zero people on the street queuing to get in, I thought, oh, shit, the bottom has fallen out of the market. And then I got round to the front and I saw people going the opposite direction and I took a little peer around the side and it just. It went further than my vision could go, into the horizon line. And I've seen the video clips. Obviously Gavin was there, the team Katya, who obviously puts the whole event together. And we cannot understate how much she puts into this over the course of the year. As soon as one's done, she's booking the next one in. And it's because of her strategies. The way she puts things together and the way that she works things out is just different. I don't know if it's from where she's from, because my wife is from a similar place. They just have a different way of thinking and getting shit done. But. But it was a phenomenal event. It was a gamble splitting over the three different segments. And a little bit like yourself, I was apprehensive as segment two was about to finish and session three was about to begin. But then there was an influx of new people and the whole energy in the room lifted because you can only go around so much throughout the day. And they were really very, very careful for health and safety reasons. They were making sure that the numbers were right because there was lots of people that just did not want to leave. But it was a phenomenal day. The watches that were on display, I thought they couldn't be better last year. I thought year one were brilliant. Last year they got their groove. They knew what they were doing, were taking things in their stride. Year three, it was almost as if they had created brand new lines. It wasn't just iterations, it was almost brand new watches. So it was fantastic.
- [07:42]
B
No, and it's great to hear you say that. And it's also great that you give Katya a shout out because you're close to the alliance on an ongoing basis. You know, the amount of work and effort that she puts into it, it's, you know, putting on an event like that, putting on a show, as anybody who's ever done it knows, it's really, really complicated. But to make it work to the extent that it does and to have the exhibitors, the attendees, singing the praises of the show is even rarer to do. And that's testament to the fantastic organization and just, I think the joy de vivre that the show has and still today, and I go to quite a lot of shows every year, but I don't know any other show where there's a spontaneous round of applause at the end that shocked us. Year one, and it still is lovely. It's not shocking anymore. I think we'd probably be worried if it didn't happen now. But actually, that spontaneous round of applause at the end of it from everybody in that room is just such a heartwarming thing and encourages us to want to build it and build it better next year.
- [08:55]
A
Again, having not been in the industry for too long, and this is our eighth year that we're in just now with Scottish watches, and it's my ninth year of it in the hobby. It's really nice to see. And I've heard the tales again. Speaking to Nicholas, he was telling me about his founding refounding and going to Salon qp. And that was an event that was just about disappearing when I was getting into the whole thing. And it was the last swan song, because after that, I mean, Watch Pro salon. I don't think that's happening this year because it was straggling along. There have been independent shows. There was the London Watch show where somebody, it was actually a good friend of mine, got robbed at it, lost hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of watches. There was all kinds of stuff like that. And they've come and they've gone, they've come and they've gone. Watchmakers Day from the outset has just been the thing that everybody has looked forward to and it's the part where international viewers, international listeners to the podcast because we do have a roughly 40%, 40% split UK and USA. It's the thing that people travel for and we don't have to do the dog and pony show, we don't have to tell people, oh well, if you come across, you can go to Trafalgar Square, Piccadilly Circus, you get Buckingham palace, lots of things for the family to do in London. We don't have to say that because when they come to Watchmakers Day you can't get them out of the place.
- [10:05]
B
No, it's absolutely true. Question for you, Ricky. One of the debates we have constantly, clearly it's going to be a single day next year but as a grows lots of people have asked us to think about extending to a weekend. Probably not of that view. We think it should kept to a very special single day event. And what are your thoughts on it?
- [10:29]
A
I've thought about this and people again after the first event people said to me this needs to be a two day show. I think it takes some of the lustre away. It doesn't make it as special. If your birthday was over two days it wouldn't be quite as fun. What day do you have your birthday cake on? Do you have two birthday cakes? Is it going to be a special? This is something to look forward to, to. This is something that you prepare for. It is a highlight. We talked, I don't even know how we got into the subject. We were talking about football because I'm not into football any longer. I was when I was a trail but we talked about football before we hit record. And one of the things I say is if you're into a hobby, into football, the World cup, whatever it is and you travel the world, you buy a season ticket that costs God knows how much these days international games cost X hotels, flights, if you like watches and that's your hobby. Make a day trip, make a weekend, make a week of going if you're not in London, if you're not in the uk, come across, visit different brands. The alliance has got so many people congregated around Linley hall, that area, you could make a week, a weekend of an extended four day weekend, whatever it is. And you've got all the stuff in London. So I think having it as a one day pinnacle event where everybody just wants to come and get it done in the one day, I think that is the winning formula. Perhaps it's outgrown its venue. So a bigger venue in the one day, that could maybe swing it. But making it two days, it would dilute it.
- [11:48]
B
I feel that's certainly our thinking at the moment. So that coincides and you're right, not next year, it'll continue in Lindley hall beyond next year. If it continues to grow, then I agree with you and I think Alistair and Roger and Katya are the same view. We will look at a bigger venue, but it has to be a special venue because one of the great things about Lindy hall is it's a special place as well. And the light, which as we all know is pretty useful if you're looking at watches, is so good. And how many times have we all been in low ceilinged hotel ballrooms or whatever where the light is and you just don't get a sense of what you're looking at.
- [12:30]
A
You know, as a bit of a technical idiot when it comes to cameras and lighting, I fully understand the reasons natural light works. No, no, me no, you're the guy that doesn't understand audio. So when it comes to lighting, it's the way that the sun produces light is across the entire visible spectrum, including infrared, far infrared and ultraviolet covers all areas. And ultraviolet is the part that gives that kick, that glow, that fluorescence to white and blues and obviously purples. When you're using artificial light, even the ones that we've got in the studio here, they are not anywhere near, especially LEDs, nowhere near the quality of light the sun gives you. So that is why when you're looking at a watch in a boutique or you're looking at a picture on a video or whatever, and it's indoor, looks okay, looks pretty good. You get it outside and it's a new watch. Linley hall has got a glass top and the light just pours in and it's diffused, it's set in a way that it's not harsh. You don't get lots of shadows and reflections and things. It just comes in and you're seeing the watch almost as if you're outdoors. Nothing beats that.
- [13:32]
B
No, no, and who knew that we'd get Science hour from Scottish watchers. I mean just amazing.
- [13:38]
A
You're on a roll today, Mike. Well done. Should get you out the house more often. But anyway, I digress. Maybe we should tell people to check the show notes because that's where all the pictures, the tech spec, all my great jokes will live for prosperity. Now we should do that wrist check thing that we completely forgot about. You're the guest of honor. What have you got on the wrist today?
- [13:55]
B
I've got on my wrist the black version of the release we had only a couple of weeks ago, which is the Sealander true gmt which has been a phenomenals the reaction we've had to it is quite incredible after the I've said it before to people, but after the moon phase complication which we launched way back 2013, 2014, the most asked for complication from our followers has always been a true gmt.
- [14:27]
A
Right for idiots me. What's the difference between all the different types of GMT?
- [14:32]
B
Well, the real difference between a true GMT and what's often called an office GMT, which is what 95% of GMTs are, is if you reset your current time, which you're going to do if you're traveling, then the GMT hand also has to be reset because it moves with the resetting of the hour and the minute hand. On a true gmt, you know that that doesn't happen. You can move your hour and your minute hand and your home station, the home hour that you're tracking, which is what you most people use the GMT hand to do, remains static. And it sounds like a very simple thing to do, but actually it's a very complicated gearing system that you have to develop to allow that that to happen. I mean Rolex obviously developed it I think before anybody else. I might be wrong in that. But if we go back to the GMT master, et cetera and it's credit to them that they were so far ahead of everybody. I recently did a trawl of brands including asking ChatGPT, et cetera to advise which brands currently have true true GMTs. The answers that we collectively got because people like Patrick Gilbertson and others were set the task behind me as well to find out we could only find 10 brands currently who have true GMTs. And so and I think I know why because I know I now know why because it's a really hard thing to do. We did it on the it's the complication is called is our own in based on Our own in house, CW002. So, if you like, the base is CW001, which was formerly known as SH21.
- [16:29]
A
Why did you rename it?
- [16:30]
B
Because, I mean, we haven't been. SH was a nod to Synergy Hologer. Yeah, because when we first started to develop and fund our own movement, it was with Johannes Janke and Jorg bader. Back in 2010, it was Prius merging and so it seemed appropriate that we called it sh. We'd already called our modules, like the Jaan Power Module JJ01, if you like to give Johannes due respect. And it's something we. We like to do. The Bel Canto module, as you know, is called FSO1, because Frank Stelza, who in many ways was the master's apprentice to Johannes.
- [17:20]
A
I mean, you even name bracelets after people as well.
- [17:22]
B
Well, yeah. I mean, the Beda, the Beta bracelet, has now become quite famous. And there's a good reason for that, because your Beta sr, who I'm pleased to say is recovering very well in. In an amazing facility in Knottville in Switzerland, having had a very serious cycling accident not that long ago, which I'm not sure everybody knows. We haven't sort of advertised it massively. But I don't think he will mind me saying this now, because he's well on the road to, if not a complete recovery, then a very good recovery. But back in end of October, early November, he was on a cycling holiday in Spain and was victim of a hit and run and very nearly died. I mean, I'm not exaggerating here, he lost virtually six pints of blood and very nearly died. Wasn't particularly well treated by the Swiss, sorry, the Spanish hospital. He was moved after about 10 days or so to Bern Hospital in Bern in Switzerland, where they did a great job. And now he's moved into an amazing facility, probably the best in the world. We in this country have Stoke Mandeville, which is, you know, pretty well renowned as a place for recovering. Recovering from serious accidents where paraplegics, quadriplegics go. They thought that he might well be a quadriplegic to begin with. That's not the case, which is great news. And he has every hope now of being able to. I don't think he'll ever be necessarily cycling in the way he did again, but he's hoping to be able to walk some distance under his own steam when he comes out of the facility in Knottville in June. So it's been a very, very testing time for him. Particularly, and I can't even remember how and why we got onto this. Ah, the Beta bracelet. So Jorg Sr. In his young days, spent, was working in Japan and he was working with bracelet manufacturing. I know nobody other than our bracelet manufacturers themselves who know more about bracelet manufacture than York. It's one of the reasons, you know, we are. We've always been really into bracelets and looking to perfect the bracelet, if you like, whether it's the Beida, whether it's the Consort. And a lot of that work was possible because of Jorg's knowledge. You know, it seemed appropriate years ago when we introduced the Beta bracelet for the first. First time, that he. Because it was a huge step forward for us in terms of the quality of what we were offering.
- [20:10]
A
Well, independent bracelets were always shit.
- [20:12]
B
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And we didn't want any of that stuff. We wanted this to be held up against the very best and be considered in that sort of top lexicon of bracelets, which I, you know, modestly, I mean, it was really down to Jorg and our manufacturers, but I modestly would suggest that we're pretty good at bracelets. And so it was obvious that I wanted to call it after, name the bracelet after Jorg. So the Beta bracelet has now become a trademark name and something that we're very proud of. And when you get to opening the box that you've got in front of you or to the side of you, I'll be talking to you about yet another really exciting bracelet development that Jorg was to some extent involved in, but so was the entire development team. But we'll get to that later, just to say live, because I know Jorg will be listening to this podcast when it goes out. We're all, as ever, with you, Jorg, and it was fantastic to get the news only the other day about you and your robot. He's now got the facilities in, has actually got robots that enable you and help you walk. It's absolutely incredible. Yeah, yeah, it's astonishing. And he's always been a technically advanced chap and very interested in modern technology, has Jorg, and so he's making the very best, and I'm sure good ideas will come out of this. But he's well on his road to recovery and everybody at Christopher Ward is so, so pleased about that.
- [21:44]
A
Oh, fantastic. Yes, best wishes. Good luck soon, because I don't think I've had the opportunity. We've talked in the past about me maybe visiting, not even just what you do in the uk, but coming across to Switzerland and it's been a testing few years. There's been lots of stuff happening. And as I relayed to you, one of the first people I told actually before Simona, my wife, joined Scottish Watches to help out because there's just too much to do. The fact that we're now able to work on the same project, we can both visit the same places. So I think one of the ports of call, there's two ports of call. There's one that's going to be UK based, we'll talk about at some point. And the second one is to get across to Switzerland and actually see what you guys do.
- [22:21]
B
Well, let's make 2026 the year that you come across and I'd absolutely love you to come over. So let's make it happen.
- [22:30]
A
Fantastic. Well, I'm going to do my wrist check quickly and then we're almost out of time, so we're going to have to talk about some new watches. But the watch I'm wearing today, he managed to do it. He managed to make one of these bel canto things that I love, genuinely love. And I got to see this one. It is the Lumiere version. I call it the Tron. Because if you've seen the posters for Tron, not this, the last one was okay. People said it was shit. I quite liked it. Tron Aries, the first one is not bad. You know, it's a little bit dated and whatnot, but they were moving things forward with computer technology. But the sweet spot for me is Tron legacy. It's probably 15, 16 years old now. 2010, it came out Disney production, original guys were involved in it. It is phenomenal. The graphics, the visuals, it stands up. The story is a little bit wishy washy, but the visuals are amazing. And this watch embodies all, all of it. So maybe you can tell me about my. I'd say this is probably my now favorite Christopher Warden. I'll open this box, but run us through the details on this one and what makes it different from the ones that I didn't like myself.
- [23:29]
B
I mean, you, I think you've, you've said it very well. A while back, you know as well as anybody, Ricky, that watch lovers, there are many aspects of a watch, but one of the aspects that they get the most animated is luminescence. And so we several years ago decided that Christopher Ward was going to, in inverted commas, own loom. And we are very, very fortunate to be one of. We have some incredible suppliers of loom, but the one that is Extraordinary and stands out is Xenoprint. And Xenoprint have developed their own very special luminescent material which as well as being allowing you to create blocks of material. You know, you've seen it on our C60 Trident Lumieres where we've got the indexes are blocks of solid lume. It also gives off incredible luminescence. They're the only people who own this in the world. They're a very small manufacturer. They have. It's a family owned business and I'm very proud that they work with us. We're one of, if not their largest customer. And you know, we're in some very, very, very exalted company. The likes of Patek. They have three major customers. I think we're one of them. Yeah, I know Patek is another one. So the starting point is a understanding that people love luminosity. The next step is you take a watch like Belcanto and we're developing. Belcanto has its own life now. I mean, I know this is your favorite watch, Ricky, your favorite Belcanto. Many people. The Belcanto Classic is theirs. Still, people are buying in considerable numbers the original colors of Belcanto after the first two limited editions. This is a more. Has a. Has a far more contemporary feel to it both in design. The simplicity, if you like, of the. Of the time telling dial combined with the lume ring around it, the solid lume ring around it and then this entire sun ray impact of high lume under light and under led. It is just the most astonishing experience to have on your wrist. And so it has captured people's imagination and it's obviously captured your imagination. But it comes from this understanding and the access to high quality loom manufacture as well as some half decent designers who understand what it is that we all love in watches. And then translating that into a design that previously is seen. I mean I've got a picture of the original behind me. Is quite a. It's contemporary, but it's quite a classical look to it. So Tron is exactly. By the way, Tron was one of the. When we go back to the very start of the storyboarding around this watch and the design boards, Tron was something that was on those boards.
- [26:58]
A
Well, I understand completely why. And looking at the image in the background of one of the original series, you're right. It was elegant, classic looking. I used to say it was the price point that you would not expect to find this technology. And it was a look and feel very similar to the likes of Breguet perhaps classic Arnold and Son. We're talking really high end as in price point watch technology. And look, whereas with this one, this looks like a circuit board. This looks like something that is just. It's fallen out of a parallel universe where Christopher Ward decided to go sci fi. And who came up with the design on this? Was it, was it one of our favorites?
- [27:36]
B
This was Adrian. Yeah. We'd been looking at a belcanto version that was going to utilize cymatics. I don't know if you're familiar with cymatics, but this is. Cymatics is, you know, I know you just said I'm. I know nothing about audio, so I'll be very careful. This is the second science part of the program.
- [27:57]
A
Johnny bowl reveals all.
- [27:59]
B
Cymatics is the science of shapes that are being driven by musical or sound. So for instance, if you put a load of rice, for instance, onto a drum skin. Yeah. And you start banging that, it will form certain patterns. And actually there's a lot of work being done scientifically where different sounds have their own unique pattern. Now we were playing with this as a concept. How could we turn this into something that could translate into watches and including Bel canto? And we got so far, but stumbled it may come back at some point because I think it's a really fascinating idea and had this dream of hiring the Royal Albert Hall. We were going to have a songs and an. And a mini opera written for us and we would launch the watch via a concert. Anyway, that, that didn't come off. Although.
- [29:08]
A
Dream big. Dream big, mate.
- [29:09]
B
Yeah, well, you know, it's. Yeah, I'll get the Royal Albert hall one day. So we moved on and then it became a more. I wouldn't say prosaic because it's still very adventurous thing to do. But back to this. Understand about the importance of Lume. The fact that I wanted, I still want us to own Lume. I want us as a brand to be known as the brand that is more adventurous, more capable in terms of luminosity. And I'm not suggesting we've reached the zenith of that dream yet, but I think we're on a journey towards it. And even things like the C60 Trident Lumiere, which was one of the first steps towards that sort of position, is a unique piece in my view, which continues to extremely well, the Bel Canto Lumiere just takes it on to a completely new level. And what's equally interesting, this may be due to the sort of Tron like properties of it. That looks great by the way is it's attracting a even younger audience. There's a lot of 20 somethings who've bought into the bel canto Lumiere, who probably would not have bought into the bel canto. You're the exception that proves the rule, of course, in that you're not a 20 something as far as I'm aware.
- [30:23]
A
But I'm a late teen. Yeah, exactly.
- [30:26]
B
Yeah, exactly. You're even younger. But so. And there, I think, you know, it's fun.
- [30:33]
A
It is. And you've not even mentioned the fact the strap glows in the dark as well.
- [30:37]
B
Oh, the luminous. Well, back to oding Lume. I mean, and you know, how much fun can you have wearing a single watch? And it is so, yeah, very, very pleased with the Bel canto Lumiere.
- [30:50]
A
It's amazing. And learning about a compl. It's not a new complication, but it's new to me. I've never owned a chiming watch. I've had a lot of loans and that we could play with for maybe a week, a month. The thing that people always taught me when I was going to car, life, booker events, all these kind of things where it's hundreds of thousands of euros for a minute, repeater, a gong, whatever it is that they had. And they would say, you know, we've tuned this to perfection. You can hear it across the room. If this is lying on a table, you can hear it in the next room when it kicks off. So it's. And you'll see the bad word there. I'm not allowed to say bad words because we get blocked. It's amazing. And I thought I would never like a bel canto just because it never appealed to the local. Last year I could not wait for them to become available because the press piece that I wore when we recorded our last show, Patrick forgot I had it and I didn't tell him I had it until the ones became available to get a hold of. So that one went across that one went to Watches and Wonders with me. Last year I didn't tell anybody. I was like, look at this, look at this. Nobody's got one of these. This is the same. The problem I've got now is in the last year to two years where, yeah, okay, I've got our Highlander watch. It's based in the Sealander. I've got a couple of bits and pieces in for a loan here, there and everywhere. In the last couple, maybe the last year and a half, I've picked up the snake watch, which was the second Limited edition. I picked up the local last year and I picked this up. This only arrived and I asked Patrick to try and move Helen High Water to get me one in November. It arrived a week ago. That's how popular these are. I can't even jump the queue. So, phenomenal. Phenomenal watch. But we should probably march forward in time and talk about what's in the box.
- [32:21]
B
Yeah.
- [32:21]
A
Shall I start unboxing it? As you talk?
- [32:25]
B
You start unboxing it because, Rachel, this is in many ways as equally important moment when we launch this watch and a companion watch, because we're going to be talking about the second versions of our ubiquitous Sealanders. You know, it's now five years since we launched the original Sealander Auto and the original Sealander gmt, both of which have become hugely important watches in our collection for Christopher Ward. The Sealander gmt, for instance, is the highest volume watch in our business and is for many people, their entry into serious watch collecting. And so you don't mess with bestsellers, do you? Well, we do because after a five year cycle, that five years, I would say, has been the most intensive period of development of Chris Ford as a brand. And what we're now able to bring to even Christopher Ward icons like the Sealanders is a, I think, a new level of expertise, a new level of quality, a new level of design, while still being obviously a Sealander automatic and a Sealander gmt. It's, you know, everything's changed and yet nothing's changed. And so these are really important watches in our lexicon. And I'm as proud of what the team have done in creating the new Sealanders as I am of anything else we've done, because I know the attention to detail that we've gone into is just phenomenal. You can't see it because I'm facing it, but on my whiteboard opposite, I have all of the improvements that we've made to both of these watches and they are, I mean, in total, they're into the tens, you know, like the 32 improvements. Yeah, everything's changed, but nothing's changed. Everything's changed. You have got the. Remind me which one you've got. Yeah, you've got the gmt, the GMT in black. It's a completely new case. We're adding a size that tells you how important this is to us and how big the volume is. We're adding a 42 mil version. Previously, we've done 36 and 39. There's a huge demand, we believe, for a 42 millimeter watch and not only in the United States, but given that now 6% of our business is in the United States, the United States customer has a real interest in demand for a larger seal. Under gmt the bezel has been completely re proportioned. So in essence the watch is, it feels bolder, it's a bolder on one's wrist now the bezel itself is slightly larger. The numerals are more dramatic. There's a new crown, if there's a new conical crown there, then you move to the dial and you've got completely new indexes. They're tapered. There are four facets per index. We've got an applied around the date window. We've now got a diamond polished applied rectangle. The Sealander name now appears on the dial for the very first time. And this is something over time you'll probably see us now introducing across our entire collection. We've got rid of the Trident counterbalance because Sealander is its own thing. Not trading off Trident anymore. The GMT hand itself is fully painted and it's bolder, it's easy to read and on and on and on. Every single aspect of this watch has been looked at and refined because at the start of the process the question that we always ask of ourselves is if you're going to introduce a new version and we did this and you'll probably recall this with the Trident collection going back a while, if you're going to introduce something that's a development on a new version or well, why and what are you able to improve? And if you can't improve it, well, why are you bothering? And believe me, these are our best selling watches. The GMT is our very best by unit value, our best selling watch. So we're not going to take this risk likely. And I haven't even started to talk about the bracelet, we just talked about how important bracelets are to us. We are we believe only the third brand in the world. Somebody will no doubt put me right on that. But it's very few who now have a no tool link system where you can remove links and size the bracelet yourself without getting out a fine screwdriver which inevitably scratches the bracelet and is really complicated to do. We have developed with our key manufacturer a brand new patented bracelet link system which we are calling I Link. We've trademarked the name I Link because this is simply there's a button on the reverse. There are five links in, in five links that have a button which you press and which you're able to detach that link, I think.
- [38:14]
A
Should I give it a go? Live on the show for the first time ever.
- [38:17]
B
Up to you.
- [38:18]
A
Are you confident, Mike? Are you confident?
- [38:21]
B
Well, I'm confident in our bracelet, Ricky.
- [38:25]
A
Right. What do I do? What do I do? I'm game for a laugh.
- [38:28]
B
So if you look at the. If you look at the underside of the bracelet, this would be easier to do if you. Because it's a quick release bracelet. If you release the bracelet from the lugs.
- [38:40]
A
Yeah, sorted.
- [38:41]
B
Now you should be able to see on several of the links, on the right hand side there is a small button.
- [38:49]
A
Yeah.
- [38:49]
B
You depress that and you then should be able to. That release mechanism. You should be able to then slide out that link. The cap comes in.
- [39:00]
A
I've not been to the gym for a while.
- [39:03]
B
There you go. I've just released it.
- [39:05]
A
Is this the Blue Peter? Here's one I prepared earlier.
- [39:08]
B
Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. But you'll get the hang of it.
- [39:12]
A
Is it because you need nails and I've bitten mine off in anticipation of speaking to you.
- [39:17]
B
It may be that your fingers are a bit thick to be able to do it. You do need to have some dexterity as well. But you will be able to do it. You'll, you know, if you. In six months time, Ricky, you'll have worked it through.
- [39:30]
A
I mean, I know you used to run the early learning centre, but come on, give me more than six months. So when you buy a Lego and it says four to six years and it takes me three years and I
- [39:39]
B
think I'm doing well, this is three and up. So, you know, but it, but it is, it is, it is a remarkable new system which is going to be so advantageous for so many people because, you know, we all tend to need our bracelets resizing and even the micro adjustment which we've now got on this. And by the way, we've slightly. We've reduced the size of the clasp so it's even sleeker as another minor detail improvement of this watch. And we're launching the Eyelink bracelet on both the Beider and the Consort with these new Sealanders. And then over time it will be introduced onto all of our bracelets, for all of our. For all of our collections. So it is a, I suppose, just another example of, you know, you don't need to do it, but the guys are constantly, constantly looking to move things forward. And for me, this is. The Eyelink is just a really exciting new development that will impact customers greatly. And that's the sort of thing that I particularly like, but the watch itself. I mean, you've not given me a reaction to it yourself yet, but you've
- [40:53]
A
not let me speak yet. You're so. You're like the proud parent talking about the watch. I've not had a chance to get a word in edgeways, but I've got a lot to say.
- [41:00]
B
Go on, go on, give me some feedback, give me some feedback.
- [41:04]
A
So I've got the thing in parts at the moment because I'm investigating while recording video clips and pictures of all kinds of stuff here. So what does the watch say? To me, it is an old favourite that's had a facelift, it's been across the turkey and it's got new teeth. It is really, really nice. I'm thinking, and I hope you don't mind me saying this, Grand Seiko quality, the reflective qualities you've got of the indexes, the polished outer, not the lume part in the middle, that remains as good as it's always been. But catching the light in the studio. We talked about light quality earlier. The studio is decent, but it's quite subdued. It's a flat lighting because you want to see as much as you possibly can. But even with the flat lighting, this is catching on all the different angles. It's reflecting the light back in the right ways. But then you catch the bezel that you mentioned has been redesigned. It almost looks like the slope has changed on it. It's a lot more comforting. It looks like it perhaps would slide under a cuff or a sleeve, something a lot easier. And the inking on it seems different. It doesn't seem quite as brash and bold and in your face it goes into the background where you need it to be because you've also got the circumference of the bezel. It's a satin finish in concentric circles. It reminds me of lots of different things. Maybe going back to the Steve McQueen the Explorer series from Rolex back in the 70s. Then you've got the polished date apert that you talked about earlier that makes again elevate stand up. It's something that the Japanese do with the Zoratsu polishing, but they charge 1012 upwards thousand pounds to do this kind of thing. And I know that you've dropped the trident counterweight on the second hand. I did notice that and I was hoping you were going to bring it up. I think it just makes things a little bit sharper, a little bit cleaner. And having Sealander just sitting underneath the main logo, it tells you what the watch is. Because some people, they don't recognize, not yet, but they don't recognize the Christopher Ward logo. It's very abstract. It doesn't say Christopher Ward because we had lots of fun, didn't we? Make over the past 20 years, playing with logos. This tells you the name of the watch. All comes together fantastically well. Swiss made at the bottom. Because as much as Christopher Ward is a British brand, you're lying into the technologies, you're relying on all that backup, the sophistication, expertise and the prowess of the Swiss. Because if you say to anybody in the street, where do the best watches come from? They still say Switzerland. That is something we need to work on, make it more of a global scale. Now, looking at the side profile, it's just the same to me. It's like the 911. It's hard to change. And iteratively you look at it and they don't really look much different. But if you put a 992.2 beside maybe a 996, you will see a difference. The lineage is there, the family history, the DNA, everything is born out. But there are minute changes and. And I can almost barely see them. My favorite part is looking in the back, the display case back. And again, a watch, which I'm not 100% sure on the price. And you're going to update me on that and tell me if it's been updated. The movement looks incredible. The rotor has been partially skeletonized, and the bit against me is the center. It's where everything connects together. And the polished versus the satin versus the bearings. And again, it looks like Tron looks like the discs they used in Tron Legacy. This is fantastic. So should we talk about the movement then?
- [44:14]
B
Well, we can. And by the way, when you said Porsche 911, I can't tell you how many times that has come up in conversations internally, because that's what we aspire to. If you create something that's brilliant in the first instance, Porsche most certainly did. And you have to say, in watchmaking, Rolex, you know, people mock a little bit about the minor detail changes. The fact is, yeah, what they start with is often so brilliant that it doesn't need huge changes. It's about just evolution, evolution. Making things, refining, making things better, making them more contemporary, elevating everything if they possibly can. And I'm a huge admirer of Rolex for that. I think they do it better than anybody else in the industry. Now, we are not Rolex, but in our own small way, we aspire to deliver the same sort of design and build and refinement as they do. And this is exactly as you've just described it. This is our Porsche 911 moment.
- [45:19]
A
Well, did you not tell me that the light capture case, originally it was almost Aston Martin. Like the way the designs had come about.
- [45:26]
B
It was, I mean, I'd recently bought an Aston Martin. It was back in 2015 when Adrian had just joined us. Adrian Bookman had just joined us and his brief was, I want you to create a signature look of a case for Christopher Ward. And we looked at everybody's cases and you know, many cases now are slap sided. You know, you don't, you know, the big selling feature of a watch is not the case, it's always the dialogue. But we wanted the case to be special. We also wanted the dial species. And I brought in my model of the Aston Martin. And as you will know, the automotive industry are expert at trying to make things look as if they sit close to the road. So they're brilliant at designing panels that refract and reflect light in a way that makes the thing look as if it sits lower. And that seemed an important aspect to us of watches. We all want those watches, by and large, we want our watches to look slimmer, not like hockey pucks. And he took the brief and because he's a brilliant designer, he developed the Light Catcher case, which in various forms, as you know, now lives in most of our platforms in various ways. But they all take the same principle of trying to make the. Through different facets and then different polishing techniques on each of the different facets, trying to make the watch look and appeal slimmer. So that was the genesis of the Light Catcher case. This is another refinement of the original. If you put the two together, you'll see there are differences, but it's a, it's a refinement. Because what Adrian created in the first instance with Light Catcher is a, it's a philosophy of design. You don't need to change it all the time. There's a solid base philosophy. And then we riff off that. And this is another riff of that, of that particular design. You mentioned the movement. This isn't, it's the, it's the, this is the 330. What we've done is we've. It's a different polishing technique and as you, I'm really delighted you picked out is the new skeletonized rotorom, which again will be, you'll see being launched across everything over time. But the new movement that we've got is in the Sealander Auto, the companion watch to the Sealander gmt. And if anything it's the Sealander Auto that people will notice the biggest difference in because this in the automatic is the changes are even more slightly more dramatic than they are on the gmt. Now I know because we've worked together on and with a Sealander automatic it's a great watch. Personally I've never pandered to wear one an own one. I don't know why but it's not been my favorite watch. Gm, the gmt. Yep. Owner own one, wear it frequently. But the automatic, I don't know why not quite right. Many months ago when I was wearing the first production samples of the new automatic, I absolutely fell in love with it and I didn't want to give it back because it, it has now become what I think we wanted it to be back in 2021. You know, everything's changed and the case is slimmer. It's you know, in the 39 millimeter it's now only 30. It's now below 11 mil. It's got the same conical new conical crown. It's got the same tapered faceted indexes as the gmt. It's got the applied date window. It's got the diamond polished hands. It's also got and this is the reference you were making. It's got the brand new Sellita 202 power plus movement in it which now has moved it from a 38 hour power reserve to 65 hour power reserve. And we may well be. We don't know this for sure until all the counting's in but we think we may well be the first brand in the world to introduce the new Sellita movement into a watch.
- [49:52]
A
That's a big deal.
- [49:53]
B
It is a big deal and we have as I think you know, we have a great relationship with Sellita in the new copy of Loop which of course the, the new Sealanders as we're calling them. The Sealanders will be the main feature.
- [50:09]
A
You ever thought of making a range called the Zoolanders?
- [50:11]
B
Oh no, no. What a brilliant idea.
- [50:14]
A
Do that for next April Fools. We're recording this in April Fools and everything I've seen today I disbelieve. It's not a good day to get press releases.
- [50:22]
B
Zoolander there go. Yeah, maybe somebody got there before us. But the point about. And we've been able to get Salita to give us quotes, etc. I mean they very rarely look for external PR as you know, but they were prepared to speak out about the new movement and the incorporation into the new Sealanders for us. And I was really, really delighted that they chose to do that and I think it's a testament to the relationship we have with them. But the new movement is fantastic and that transforms the power. The GMT already, the 330 already has a 56 hour power reserve, as you know. But the big increases now in the automatic, which goes from 38 to 65 hours and that's even before we talk about the new color offer that we've got on both, which is, you know, white and black will always be the strongest colors. White in the GMT is the best selling color. We're warming the white up, it's a different white. So it's a new white. I much prefer this white to the rather neoni version, clinical white we had previously. But we've also got the black. As I say, but we're introducing pistachio and a beautiful sky blue in the GMT and additionally a wonderful pink shade in the automatic. And as I say, the automatic has won my heart. Whereas previously the GMT was the one that I would have gone for. I just think the Sealander automatic is going to be a huge shift in terms of the perception of entry. What you can do with an entry level watch, I really do.
- [52:08]
A
And to call it entry level is actually doing it a massive disservice. One of the things people have always said about all the Christopher Ward ranges, the unbeatable quality and value. And one of the first episodes we recorded together probably over half a decade ago was about you covertly going around ads, recording the sound from high quality products, the bezel click, the way that things work and even the first watches you sent through, it was one of the Trident series, was the first ones we got our hands on. And the thing that got me and the thing I always do with any watch, no matter what, is where in the world, a boutique, a product launch. I check the droop, I hold the watch, I hold the bracelet and I try and move it backwards and forwards. And yours were always as good, always as good as Rolex. I've had a number of different watches. I had the Snoopy and the bracelet and the Snoopy was nowhere near as good. I've played with Grand Seiko, Seiko and Grand Seiko. The bracelet and the clasp is the thing that lets them down. This is even better. And I know that the technology you guys use and you mentioned, you know, you, you amalgamated with certain brands, historically different technology partners There was one a couple of years ago that you talked about when you were on the show, and I'm pretty sure that the amalgamation with them has devised even more intricate technology because I cannot see a join where the watch head joins into the bracelet. I was fighting to get the bracelet back on because it's like one of those toys where you have to slip the metal into the metal and they disappear because they're that close in tolerance. Everything about it, looking at the side profile, the fact, as I say, it's a satin finish in a circular motion, but then you've got a polished edge. Like the nude Daytona is. Like the new Rolexes that came out just a couple of years ago. You've got an outer flank, then you've got the satin, then you've got polish, then you've got satin. There's not a sharp edge on the thing. I'm running my hands around it. There's nowhere I can catch my fingers and it's going to dig in or it's going to cut. So I can't see a negative. And I always look for the positives and the negatives with watches.
- [54:06]
B
Yeah, and rightly so. And we're the same. You know, nobody creates anything that's completely perfect. Apart from appearance, nobody creates anything that's completely perfect. But there's no doubt that these two watches, given that they're now the second iterations, are getting as close as we can get today. No doubt in another four or five years we'll move it on again, but right now, this is as good as we can do, and I think it's pretty good. And as I say, the automatic version, I think, is a huge shift. Whereas the gmt, both of them are just refined. Everything is refined about them. And they are iconic to us now. I mean, I wouldn't ever express that we have an iconic watch. In the world of watches, I do think people like Rolex have icons and I do think Explorer 1 and Explorer 2 are iconic watches. And there's no doubt, I mean, obviously we are nodding in that direction here. But I do hope that you see increasingly that sort of Christopher Ward handwriting, that signature that imbues the look and the feel of these watches in front of you. Because that's the goal, really. You know, you cannot. You can't deny, although some people would, that, you know, Rolex themselves. Without Rolex, I don't think there'd be a watch industry worth speaking of today. Yeah, because you look at whether it's the Submariner, you look at the Explorers one Explorer two. You look at Daytona, these guys created huge icons from which a lot of what happens in the industry has then developed the art and the skill is not to homage them, but it's pay respect, but do it your own way. I think, you know, 20 years ago, we were homaging because we knew no better. 21 years later, you know, I think we're getting very close to genuinely creating something that is recognizably Christopher Ward, even if you hold it with your eyes closed. Back to the tolerances, back to the lack of movement in bracelets, back to all of those things, tangible design, quality assurance elements coming from a philosophy that says, yes, we want to give amazing access at price point, but we will not compromise on quality. And that's, I think, more and more people, I think, are beginning to really understand and know that that just isn't. It isn't just the CEO bullshit. You know, I give plenty of that, by the way, as well, but, you know, it's absolutely true. And. And that's why these Sealanders are so, so important in my book, because it's about demonstrating the maturity of where we are as a brand. And when you are able to refine to this level while keeping the spirit of what came before. Back to your 911 analogy. For me, that says, we're growing up now, you know, we're really beginning to grow. So it's a really important moment for the brand, really is.
- [57:43]
A
You said about homaging, and that is a criticism, I suppose, that has been levied towards Christopher Ward in the past. But I've always said, since I became friends with you, first met you in Edinburgh, 2019 podcast was a week old, funnily enough. You guys did this interview. Yeah, I didn't know what the f. I was doing. Still don't. But even then, you had the Sh21. You had that red thing that looked like a Brembo rotor. No one had done anything like that. So even back then, you had things that were your own. And looking at Bel Canto, that is your Daytona, that is your Submariner. That is your oyster perpetual. That's the one that nobody can look at and say, it's anything but. And then what happens is people go, that's the hero. That's the Halo. What else have they got in the range? I want the everyday watch. This appears, the GMT appears. Or I've spotted people getting these as gifts for others because they've experienced the quality, everything that goes into this, and they go, well, that's a little bit. Maybe A little bit high in the price point to be a gift for somebody, but, hey, Christopher ward, do something. £800, £1,000. It's brilliant. And before we finish up, because we're running long in this episode, and I've let it run long because there's so much to talk about, we're going to talk about, finally, Ken Kessler and the book. Because that came across my desk. I get so many books handed to me, sent to me, given to me at trade events and all the rest of it. Ricky, we've got a new book out. Do you want to have a look at it? Yes. Thanks. Through them. And I'll be honest, there's a handful. Nicholas at Fears. His book is amazing. And I believe there's a new one coming out of that. Czapek, obviously. Ten years of the revitalization of their brand. Other ones perhaps, not so much. When I got Ken Kessler's compendium compilation, one of many, hopefully. And I put it on the desk and I flicked through it, I stopped after about three pages and I started reading and I went, right, okay, keep going. Stopped again. Notebook has done that to me in years. And I read, almost read the full thing. And I don't read books. I always do audio. It just. It sung to me. I phoned him, I said, listen, do you want to come on the podcast? I know it's nothing really to do with Chris. Reward. Don't even tell him you're going to do it. Just come on the podcast and tell us about the book. And he did, and it was amazing. How did you get him involved and what's the response?
- [59:50]
B
Been like, I love Ken. Ken has been working with us for years now. He's a. A regular contributor to Loop magazine. He writes the most informed, intelligent, funny articles on the watch industry that I've ever come across. And that's why he's been writing articles in Loop for years. So we have a good relationship with our counters as friends and a great working relationship. And he'd been wittering onto me about we should do a book. And I eventually said, right, let's do it. We wanted it to be a book you could either read cover to cover or dip into my copy still on my bedside table, and I'll occasionally, just before I go to bed, read one or two articles.
- [60:44]
A
What he said to me was that he wanted the book to be the kind of book you would leave in the toilet, so if you were taking a toilet break, you could dip in and out of it. And I came up With a new term, shitrature.
- [60:54]
B
Oh, that's brilliant. Did you tell him that?
- [60:56]
A
No, I don't think I did. I don't think he'd appreciate as much as you did.
- [61:00]
B
I shall definitely tell him that. No, I mean, you know, he's a great writer. The book is, you know, eclectic in the extreme. It. And the other thing I said to him, and he buys. This is what we do in Loop magazine, as you know, is we don't just talk about our brand, we'll talk about other brands. So I didn't want it to be a book just about Christopher Ward, although we're obviously represented in there. It's about watches, the thing we love. And it's from details about an individual watch to history of chronographs, to what President Kennedy wore on his. It's just. And the reaction. I mean, honestly, we hit the top of the Amazon charts before Christmas.
- [61:45]
A
Wow.
- [61:46]
B
And so it's available through us, but also through Amazon, and it went straight to number one. I'm so pleased. And I'm so pleased for Ken because. And he's got more than one in him. So it's called Compendium 01 for a good reason.
- [62:02]
A
Yeah. It should have had two zeros before the one known amount he could probably produce. Yeah, it is. It's great. And I recommend it. Well, you never know. You never know. But, no, he's a great. He's a great guest because when we talk about. A bit like yourself, when we talk about watches, we never run out of any subject matter, but it's always good to dip into cars, it's good to dip into audio, to camera technology. And he's just. He's an encyclopedia, even at his. For the age of the guy. I remember meeting him for the first time at a watch event. I sat down, I was chatting to him back and forth, back and forward, and then he casually just told me that he was in his 70s. He's sharp as attack. He's incredible. So if you haven't checked the book out, if you've not, you don't know what we're talking about. Click the link in the show notes, go across. There'll be a link in there, Mizzy. I'll put it there to look at the book. It'll link on the Christopher Ward site, where there are more pictures of what's inside it, and a link to Amazon because you want to get a hold of it. And although it's not exactly Christmas time, there's always time for a good book and you don't have to leave it in the toilet. You can put it somewhere else in the house.
- [63:00]
B
Yeah, shitrature.
- [63:02]
A
Yeah, shitrature. Copyright™TM and all the rest of it. But we are at the end of this episode. I have been fornicating over this. I've been caressing it in my palm as we've been talking. And, yeah, it's fantastic. It's not new, it's not derivative. It's an evolution, like the 911, like you said there. And whereas Audi and BMW, they change the headlights every 14 minutes. It's something that stands the test of time and it's just refined, refined, refined. But it'll work. It's tried and tested. True. And it'll be there, dependable tomorrow. A bit like yourself, Mike. You're always dependable and you're here tomorrow. Anything you want to tell people before we let you get on your way?
- [63:38]
B
Not really. I just want to say thank you for the podcast and for your reaction to the watch. You've just made a product development team very, very, very happy. Thank you.
- [63:51]
A
No problem at all. And if you want to check out our backdog, we've got tons of episodes with, mate. You can go through the history, probably six years worth, seven years worth of different things, going all the way back to that first episode recording over in Edinburgh. We've got. When we launched the Highlander watch, we've got local, we've got 12 12x. There is a ton in there, all the heavy hitters. It's like a. Now that's what I call not music, but watchmaking. It's the album of the century, featuring Mike France on bass. But that is us at the end of an episode. Thank you for listening and we'll catch you again soon.
- [64:23]
B
Cheers. Now that's what I call watchmaking. I do like that. I love it.