Podcast
Scratch: CMO Interviews
Hosted by Rival · EN
Why do some businesses grow faster than others? What do the marketers leading them do differently? How can we learn from them to grow our own businesses and careers?
Scratch explores the world of challenger marketing - the thinkers and doers questioning the status quo and rewriting the marketing rule book ‘from scratch’. Each episode will dive deep into the experience and perspective of an industry thought leader to understand the unique insights and ideas that have powered their success. We will interview some of the biggest names in the marketing world - the people with the most interesting stories to tell. We’ll hear from the CMOs of the biggest brands in the world, but also the entrepreneurs building hyper-growth start-ups to really understand the full spectrum of challenger marketing today. We’ll get into the nitty gritty: the details of how they think and what they do differently in order to deliver simple, clear, and actionable lessons for all marketers.
Scratch is the ‘How I Built This’ of marketing - we hope to inform and inspire a generation of marketers to grow their businesses and their careers like true challengers ‘from scratch’ every day.
16episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
750 Billion Dollars in Marketing Spend Is Being Wasted Every Year
2w ago00:45:52Tap to summarizePranav breaks down why the way we've always tested products and campaigns is fundamentally broken, how 90% of all decision-making happens in the subconscious, and why asking people what they think is almost completely useless. Neuro Insight's brain-mapping technology cuts through the noise, accessing the hidden drivers of human behaviour that people can't even articulate themselves. They also get into why marketing didn't just break on its own - culture broke first - and what it's going to take to fix it, from rediscovering the lost craft of storytelling to building the kind of CMO courage that puts real money behind real conviction. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/BLXF2kAqoWc 🖊️Mentioned in the show: AI Marathon Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Viren Samani, and he’s joined by Pranav Yadev of Neuro Insight in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn Find Viren on LinkedIn Find Yadev on Linkedin Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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115 stores and coffee at 30,000feet; Bootlegger's Playbook for Dominating the Category
4w ago00:49:27Tap to summarizeMiguel gets into the brand discipline behind the growth. Why Bootlegger turned down trends their own customers were asking for. How a year of navigating aviation regulations put their coffee at 30,000 feet. What drove the decision to strip the brand back to a gold dot. And why consistency, not innovation, is the framework that keeps them relevant while competitors slip. For CMOs navigating saturated categories and the pressure to chase every trend, Miguel's approach is a useful counterweight. Bootlegger doesn't follow. It holds the line, makes two or three big plays a year, and backs quality at every touchpoint from the roastery to the runway. The result is a brand that's grown faster by doing less. Sharp, honest, and packed with thinking you can actually use. If you're building a brand in a crowded category and trying to scale without giving ground, this one's for you. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube - ▶️: https://youtu.be/MXCBY5Xkgto 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Tashers Seattle Mugg & Bean FlySafair Black Coffee Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Viren Samani, and he’s joined by Miguel Netto of Bootlegger in this episode. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn Find Viren on Linkedin Find Miguel on Linkedin Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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“The Apple of Toothbrushes”: How Suri is Disrupting the $10 Billion Oral Health Care Industry
Apr 100:50:01Tap to summarizeGyve shares how SURI found its edge by listening closely to real customer frustrations and rethinking the product from the ground up, from design and performance to sustainability. Instead of treating sustainability as the headline, SURI builds products people genuinely want to use first, then makes them better for the planet. It also dives into how SURI is translating that momentum into retail, competing on shelf through design, clarity, and brand recognition, while continuing to evolve as a work in progress, including early validation from Jony Ive that reinforced their belief in design as a core differentiator. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/0n5MyEr06NM 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Brands to watch Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Viren Samani, and he’s joined by Gyve Safavi of Suri in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn. Find Viren on LinkedIn Find Gyve on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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“Listen Loudly”: How the World's Largest Credit Union Thinks Like a Challenger Brand
Mar 1800:41:49Tap to summarizeThe conversation explores why Navy Federal focuses on being "precious to few, but relevant to many". By prioritizing active duty military and their families, they build a foundation of trust that naturally scales to the broader veteran community. In a landscape where brands often prioritize efficiency, Navy Federal focuses on authenticity. This philosophy shines through in their "brandformance" strategy, a blend of brand and performance that balances rational product needs with emotional trust. Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️:https://youtu.be/jlpq3Mzc_hg Favorite challenger brand: Rocket Mortgages Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Pam Piligian of Navy Federal Credit Union in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn Find Pam Piligian on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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How Satisfy Built The Most Adored Brand In Running
Mar 400:44:51Tap to summarizeInstead of following trends, Satisfy chooses to build a brand that’s different. Daniel said it best: “The easiest way to do something quite different is to not look at anything at all.”In a landscape where brands benchmark competitors and chase fleeting trends, Satisfy focuses on culture. They hire for it before skill, treat customers as guests, and think in decades rather than moments.This philosophy shines through in the Satisfy Pro Team. It’s not just a sponsorship roster, but a reflection of the brand’s commitment to process and discipline. The key takeaway: Most brands chase relevance, but Satisfy builds consistency. They react to culture, while Satisfy hires for it. They aim for long-term impact, not short-term hype.This conversation is a masterclass in long-term brand strategy and the discipline of saying no.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: https://youtu.be/CRUMwdDoj5o🖊️Mentioned in the show:Satisfy Pro Team - https://satisfyrunning.com/pages/satisfy-pro-team-Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Daniel Groh of SATISFY in this episodeFind Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedInFind Eric on LinkedInFind Daniel on LinkedinSay hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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How Brompton Built One of the Biggest Brands In Cycling
Jan 2800:47:08Tap to summarizeIn this episode of Scratch, Eric sits down with Chris Willingham, Chief Marketing Officer at Brompton Bicycle, to discuss the brand strategy behind Brompton’s global expansion. Chris shares how Brompton has grown from a distinctly 'British brand' into a global challenger across markets like China, Japan, the US, and Europe, and why international growth requires a clear point of view on what the brand stands for everywhere, not just what it sells. They dig into how Brompton built a global brand platform designed to scale, including how the team grounded its positioning in both product truth and human truth. Chris explains the thinking behind Living Life Unfolded, why the brand shifted focus from the mechanics of folding to the experience that unfolds once you ride, and how Brompton balances global consistency with the flexibility needed to resonate locally. He also shares how the brand is being rolled out in phases, prioritising focus and internal alignment over big-budget launches. The conversation also explores what this approach means for marketing leadership. Chris reflects on choosing agency partners that fit a challenger brand, the importance of distinctiveness and creative bravery in crowded categories, and how community and culture play a role in global relevance. Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube: https://youtu.be/2WLVQ_mnJaM 🖊️Mentioned in the show: Favorite challenger brand: On Amp By Rival The Rival 50: The Best Challenger Brands of 2025 Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Chris Willingham of Brompton Bicycle in this episode Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn. Find Eric on LinkedIn Find Chris on LinkedIn. Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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Inside Webflow’s Bet on an AI-Native Web and What That Means For CMOs
Jan 1400:45:58Tap to summarizeIn this episode of Scratch, Eric sits down with Adrian Rosenkranz, Chief Revenue Officer at Webflow, to explore how AI is fundamentally changing the way brands grow, compete and get discovered. As large language models reshape how people find and evaluate products, Adrian argues that marketing is shifting from a game of clicks and traffic to a game of relevance and answers, where your website, content and brand have to work for both humans and machines at the same time. We’re effectively marketing to bots at this point! They dig into what this means in practice for CMOs, from how SEO and content strategies need to evolve, to why many AI initiatives stall inside large organisations. If you’re currently trying to bring AI to your marketing team (Who isn’t?) then Adrian has some practical guidance and perspectives to share to ensure that your AI initiatives actually deliver something valuable. The conversation also goes beyond tools and tactics into leadership, creativity and culture. Adrian reflects on lessons from Salesforce, the importance of narrative and design thinking, and why creativity, taste and speed of adaptation are becoming the true sources of differentiation in an AI-native world. It’s a wide-ranging discussion about how marketing, growth and brand leadership need to evolve for the next era of the web.Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube 🖊️Mentioned in the show:Favorite challenger brand: Ramp Best campaign: Duolingo Amp By Rival The Rival 50: The Best Challenger Brands of 2025 Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Adrian Rosenkranz of Webflow in this episodeFind Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedInFind Adrian on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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Rewriting The Sports Marketing Playbook: How Manors Is Becoming The Most Memorable Brand In Golf
Dec 1001:03:36Tap to summarizeIn this episode of Scratch, Viren sits down with Alex Ames, Marketing Director at Manors Golf, the challenger brand bringing new energy, creativity, and cultural relevance to a sport long seen as elitist and inaccessible. Manors believes golf is a game to be explored, not mastered, and they are reshaping the category one cinematic campaign at a time.Alex unpacks how Manors went from a small rebrand to a movement inspiring a new generation of golfers. He dives into the brand’s early struggles (“the Dark Ages”), how events helped them rediscover momentum, and how the team realised that attention—not product, was their true currency. He reveals the internal creative engine behind Manors’ iconic films, from Monday forensic reviews to Thursday idea punch-ups, and how viral thinking shapes every concept.The episode covers everything from the Reebok partnership (and why they avoid “brand soup”), to location-led campaigns, to how everyday golfers and celebrities ended up sharing the tee sheet at Manors events. For marketers, the message is clear: if you want to change a category, change the story people tell about it.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: YT Link 📚 Chapters:00:00 – Intro & Viren’s fanboy moment01:38 – Challenger brand shoutout: Satisfy Running03:03 – What Manors Golf actually does05:24 – Why golf needed a cultural refresh07:42 – Golf as exploration: the foundation of Manors’ brand14:31 – How insights were reframed for a new audience15:47 – How social media opened golf to younger players16:36 – Why storytelling became foundational to Manors18:55 – The “Dark Ages” & the moment everything shifted21:22 – Why events matter for brand building22:23 – Their unique influencer strategy (no follower-chasing)24:55 – The community-first mindset26:03 – The unseen advantage of having a strong brand30:23 – How Manors built its content machine32:36 – Inside the Monday forensic review & Thursday punch-up34:51 – How virality informs campaign execution39:48 – Hook-first creative thinking41:40 – “Blow up the golf cart”: Reebok collaboration55:32 – Most underrated channel for challenger brands58:08 – Closing thoughts🖊️Mentioned in the show:Rival 50 - The Top Challenger Brands of 2025 - Rival's brand index with Imperial College London Future of the CMO Documentary - A documentary for CMOs about the future of the role featuring the CMO of Mastercard, Shell, Dr. Scholl’s and many more.Satisfy Running – Favorite challenger brand reference for how to build culture around a sport:Random Golf Club (Erik Anders Lang) – Referenced as one of the early lifestyle-led golf collectives before Manors’ riseArc’teryx – A key reference point for Manors’ positioning: “like Arc’teryx for golf.”The North Face – Another anchor brand referenced to explain Manors’ performance-meets-lifestyle functionality.Ryder Cup – Mentioned as the context for one of Manors’ biggest collection launches and a cultural moment in golf.Golfers Journal – Inspiration for golf as exploration and the storytelling aesthetic Manners tapped intoReebok x Manors “No Thanks, I’ll Walk” Collaboration: Campaign page.Max Fosh (YouTuber) – Inspiration for using hook-first creative thinking during campaign developmentNotion – The internal system powering Manors’ creative pipeline, punch-ups, and idea tracking.Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. This Scratch episode is hosted by Viren Samani, and he’s joined by Alex Ames, Marketing Director at Manors Golf.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram. Find Viren on LinkedInFind Alex on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com. We’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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Roots before Reach: YETI's Playbook To Building an Iconic Brand
Nov 1900:34:58Tap to summarizeIn this episode, Bill Neff, Head of Marketing at YETI, breaks down how the legendary cooler company became a culture-defining outdoor brand without relying on massive media budgets. From his Under Armour “locker room” days to leading one of the world’s most beloved challenger brands, Bill shares the operating system behind YETI’s rise, which is one built on community intimacy, real relationships, and equipment designed to last forever.And this year, YETI made The Rival 50, our index of the world’s top challenger brands redefining growth, a recognition that reflects the consistency, courage, and craft behind their approach.One key takeaway: Roots before reach. Bill explains why YETI invests four times more in community than brand, how third-party advocacy beats first-party hype, and why focusing on the micro-cultures around hunting, fishing, culinary, and outdoor craft fuels more growth than broad awareness ever could. If you’re building a premium brand or trying to scale without outspending your category, this conversation is your blueprint.Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube ▶️: HERE 📚 Chapters:(00:00:00) - Intro 🎙️05:00 Challenger brand pick: Turtlebox 🏆06:30 What YETI is today09:00 Listening that guides expansion (cast iron) 📊12:00 Depth via community14:00 Under Armour lessons: “locker room talk”16:30 Premium pricing & third-party advocacy 💵20:00 Getting started with advocacy 🤝23:00 People stories > product dumps28:00 Community-first team structure (4x brand)31:00 Mass brand without mass media34:00 Wrap up🖊️Mentioned in the show:ANA Global Day of Learning (Association of National Advertisers)Turtlebox, favorite challenger brandUnder Armour, Bill’s previous work experienceSitka Gear, Bill’s previous work experienceDuck Man (YETI campaign)Drake Magazine (endemic example)Scratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Bill Neff, Head of Marketing at YETI, in this episodeThis episode was recorded at the ANA’s global day of learning. Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Find Bill on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com. We’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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From Cornwall to the World: How Finisterre’s community marketing strategy built a global brand
Oct 2900:47:48Tap to summarizeIn this episode of Scratch, Eric chats with Bronwen Foster-Butler, CMO of Finisterre, the cold-water surf brand from Cornwall proving that purpose and performance can coexist. Bronwen shares how community became Finisterre’s real growth engine, from “creating through community, not for it,” to rethinking top-of-funnel marketing and focusing on relationships over reach. She shows how listening to your customers can lower CAC, build loyalty, and create true advocates.Finisterre began with a simple insight: the surf industry’s glossy, tropical image that didn’t reflect the real, rugged world of UK surfers. Today, it’s a B Corp and leading challenger brand proving that you can grow profitably without losing your soul.And finally, she dives into how a strong sense of place in Cornwall’s coastline and the shipping forecast origins of the Finisterre name and thus gives the brand its distinct voice. Ultimately, the takeaway for marketers is clear: scaling through a niche isn’t limiting but it is the future. Staying true to who you are as a brand, and give a platform to your community to carry the story forward.Watch the video version of this podcast on Youtube ▶️: HERE 📚 Chapters:00:00 – Devon vs Cornwall (and scones)04:00 – Challenger brand spotlight: Snow Peak07:36 – What is Finisterre?08:09 – The founder’s cold-water surf epiphany10:04 – Lessons from Lululemon’s turnaround12:44 – Rebuilding trust through community13:35 – “Create through community, not for community”21:09 – Ocean meets mountain: Kendal Film Festival23:50 – CAC, CLTV & data on community ROI28:49 – Cornwall, heritage, and the Shipping Forecast31:50 – Scaling through a niche37:00 – Doing more with less: top-of-funnel investment39:00 – Creative consistency and campaign focus41:33 – Alignment, enrollment, and growth metrics43:20 - Lightning Round ⚡🖊️Mentioned in the show:Lululemon – Community-led brand lessonsBurberry – Global brand transformationSnow Peak – Favorite Challenger BrandKendal Mountain Festival – Ocean & Seas collaboratione.l.f. Cosmetics – “Too Many Dicks” campaign referenceBBC Shipping Forecast – The origin of the Finisterre nameScratch is a production of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy that develops strategies and capabilities that help businesses grow faster. Scratch is hosted by Eric Fulwiler, and he’s joined by Bronwen Foster-Butler, CMO of Finisterre in this episode.Find Rival online at www.wearerival.com, LinkedIn, and Twitter. Find Eric on LinkedIn and tweet him @efulwiler. Find Bronwyn on LinkedIn.Say hi at media@wearerival.com, we’d love to hear from you. Rival is a marketing consultancy for brands that want to challenge convention in their category. We’re on a mission to understand what challenger brands do differently to grow in categories that are being disrupted, and use a challenger playbook to deliver outsized impact through an integrated, tech-enabled approach. Past guests include CMOs from Mastercard, GE, Shell, Hyperloop, Adobe, PepsiCo, and Papa Johns.If you’re interested in learning more about marketing from successful CMOs, we compiled a list of the top 5 CMO podcasts to listen to in 2024; check it out here 🔗 https://www.wearerival.com/content-hub-articles/cmo-podcasts-you-cannot-afford-to-miss-in-2024
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