In search of the perfect lobster roll

Summary

Podcast Summary: "In Search of the Perfect Lobster Roll"

The Big Dig Presents: Catching The Codfather — April 8, 2026
(Originally from The Sporkful — Host: Dan Pashman)

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Overview

This episode of The Big Dig Presents’s "Catching The Codfather" series features a guest episode from The Sporkful, where host Dan Pashman embarks on a mission to uncover the secret of the beloved lobster rolls served every Friday night at Grace Church on Martha’s Vineyard. Pashman explores the iconic New England delicacy through family tradition, food science, community, and the unassuming operations of a small church kitchen that sells up to 1,400 lobster rolls in a single night. Lobster roll lovers, food skeptics, and tradition-keepers provide perspective on what makes this particular lobster roll unique—not just in taste but as a community institution.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lobster Roll Phenomenon at Grace Church

• Scene Setting & Context (02:31–04:10)

  • Every Friday in summer, a modest Episcopal church sells $20 lobster rolls, drawing lines of locals and tourists alike.
  • “Last week we sold 1,400 lobster rolls out of this kitchen.” – Sandy Pratt (02:55)

• History & Growth

  • Started in 1988 with six congregants as a simple fundraiser; now continuously voted the best lobster roll on Martha’s Vineyard for 15 years straight (04:10).

2. Recipe Philosophy: Purity Over Pomp

• Minimalist Ingredient List (07:55–09:19)

  • Only lobster meat, mayonnaise, white pepper; “no tarragon, no dill, no scallions, not even celery or lettuce.”
  • “It's nothing but giant chunks of lobster with maybe enough mayonnaise to make the chunks stick together.” – Captain Ralph Joseph (03:18)

• The 'Squish' Test

  • No written recipe. Lobster-to-mayo ratio is determined by sound: “Make it squish." (08:14–09:09)
  • “When it squishes, you’ve got enough mayo. That’s been my formula.” – Roger McGarry (09:09)

3. Logistics: Feeding the Masses

• Sourcing & Prep (13:05–14:23)

  • Lobster is purchased frozen from Sysco in 2 lb. bags—shattering the “fresh is always better” gospel.
  • Systematic draining of thawed meat through the week. Bo Pickard built custom strainers for the process (15:43–16:28).

• Financial & Operational Reality

  • $48,800+ raised last summer, supporting local and international charities (11:34–11:50).
  • Peak: up to 1,400 rolls in a single Friday (12:09–12:18).

4. Science of Lobster Roll Greatness

• Texture is Key (16:58–18:53)
  • Frozen lobster tail meat can become more tender due to ice crystals breaking down muscle fibers.
  • Draining improves both texture and flavor concentration.
  • “The freezing itself can act as a tenderizing process... Maybe the tail meat in the lobster benefits from that.” – Daniel Gritzer (17:33)
  • “Maybe the prolonged draining allows that to collapse down on itself a little bit ... you’re getting a concentration of flavor.” – Daniel Gritzer (18:35)
• “Taste of Place” Effect
  • Eating near the shore enhances perception of freshness and quality (19:43).
  • “It does taste better when you’re sitting near the ocean.” – Susan Eibner (19:43)

5. Community, Identity, and Inclusion

• More Than Just a Fundraiser (03:50, 22:17)

  • “What I saw was community building... anything that becomes a community builder is a ministry.” – Susan Eibner (03:50, 22:17)
  • Community ties: Mixing tables, locals and newcomers sharing, old traditions—“It’s like old home week.” (22:17)
  • Notable diversity: Stained glass windows honoring Black leaders in the Episcopal church as part of local heritage (22:55–24:24).

• Personal Traditions & Pilgrimages

  • People fly in from other states, or take boat “lobster roll charters” just to attend (27:29–28:35).
  • “The lobster is big and juicy... the biggest lobster pieces that I’ve seen.” – Simone Pratt (27:43)

6. Price, Perception, and Common Sense

• Economic Analysis (20:35–21:28)
  • Each lobster roll contains 8oz of meat—more than you get from a whole two-pound lobster, and much less expensive than a plated lobster entrée.
  • “People perceive lobster rolls as expensive... but actually, it is more meat than you would get from a two-pound lobster, which is big.” – Dan Pashman (21:10)

7. The Ritual of Assembly: The Final Step

• At Home: Buttered Bun Science (30:09–31:15)
  • Detailed family ritual of griddling New England–style split-top buns in butter, keeping bun warm and lobster cool for maximum contrast.
  • “The roll has to be warm and the lobster meat has to be cold. And you have that contrast... that's what it’s about.” – Dan Pashman's Mom (30:37)
  • Connecticut-style warm lobster rolls in butter are “an abomination.” – Dan Pashman (31:18)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Essence of Simplicity:
  “Look at it. It’s nothing but giant chunks of lobster with maybe enough mayonnaise to make the chunks stick together. You sink your teeth in it. It's so fresh, you can actually taste the brine.”
  — Captain Ralph Joseph (03:18)

• Recipe Wisdom:
  “You put mayo in just to make it squish. Once it squishes, you know you’ve got enough mayo.”
  — Roger McGarry (08:14)

• On Community: “This became more than just a fundraiser... What I saw was a community building. And anything that becomes a community builder is a ministry.”
  — Susan Eibner (03:50, 22:17)

• Science Meets Tradition:
  “The freezing itself can act as a tenderizing process... Maybe the tail meat in the lobster benefits from that.”
  — Daniel Gritzer (17:33)

• Place Matters:
  “It does taste better when you’re sitting near the ocean.”
  — Susan Eibner (19:43)

• Religious Purism vs. Culinary Innovation:
  “Jesus wasn’t white, but don’t you dare put tarragon on my lobster roll.”
  — Dan Pashman (25:00)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:31] – Arrival at Grace Church, background of lobster roll night
• [03:18] – Captain Ralph Joseph describes lobster roll perfection
• [04:10–04:49] – History of Grace Church lobster roll tradition
• [07:55]–[09:19] – Recipe breakdown, “the squish” explained by Roger McGarry
• [11:34]–[12:18] – Fundraising impact and record sales
• [13:05]–[14:23] – Sourcing frozen lobster, draining technique
• [16:58]–[18:53] – Daniel Gritzer on freezing and texture science
• [19:43] – Setting and sensory science (“taste of place”)
• [20:35]–[21:28] – Lobster roll economics
• [22:17]–[22:41] – Community as ministry
• [22:55]–[24:24] – Inclusion, stained glass windows, local history
• [26:02]–[26:56] – Pre-opening rush and kitchen dynamics
• [27:29]–[28:35] – Travelers and lobster roll “pilgrimages”
• [30:09]–[31:15] – Home assembly, buttered bun ritual

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Tone and Style

Dan Pashman’s narration is conversational, warm, and gently irreverent, blending humor with deep curiosity. The local volunteers echo the pride, practicality, and understated sense of tradition endemic to New England. Above all, the episode celebrates the sacredness of simplicity, the importance of community connection, and the enduring power of food memory.

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Conclusion

This episode features more than just the secret to the best lobster roll—it tells the story of how tradition, science, scarce resources, and a dedicated community make an ordinary church fundraiser into a beloved New England institution. From the secret of the “squish” to the richness of inclusion in Grace Church’s stained glass, listeners come away with a sense of both place and palate—hungry not just for a lobster roll, but for belonging.

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Transcript

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Disney's Zootopia 2 is the highest grossing animated film of all time. It's also the source of the strangest Hollywood story you have ever heard. I'm Malcolm Gladwell and on my podcast Revisionist History, we're telling a story that invites so much absurd speculation that we're gonna have to tell it across two episodes. You will almost certainly feel compelled to see Zootopia 2 for yourself, and if you already have, you may need to see it again. Listen to our bizarre two part series on Revisionist History wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

Support for the Big Dig comes from Safety Insurance offering auto insurance policies designed to help for when the worst happens. You can ask an independent agent about safety insurance. Safety Insurance will help you manage life's storms. And also from Goodnow Farms Chocolate Creating award winning chocolate from single origin cacao sourced directly from farmers throughout Latin America, ensuring exceptional quality and flavor. Explore the craft behind every [e-mail] we talked a lot this season about fish, of course. The cod, the haddock, flounder. We heard about monkfish, gray, soul hake, halibut. But if you've ever spent a summer in New England, you know that there is one food we take even more seriously than our fish, and that is our shellfish. When it comes to lobster rolls, people around here have very, very strong opinions. So today I'm excited to bring you an episode from one of my personal favorite podcasts, the Sporkful, in which host Dan Pashman travels to Martha's Vineyard to uncover the secret recipe of his family favorite lobster roll. And believe me, when Dan Pashman says that a food is his favorite, he has a good reason for saying that. Plus, in the same episode, Daniel Gritzer from Serious Eats breaks down the science of why frozen lobster might be better than fresh. As always, Dan and the team have a special knack for telling stories about food that also help you understand the world. You can find all their work wherever you're listening right now. Just search for the Sporkful. Now please enjoy the Secret to Grace Church's Lobster Rolls.

[Dan Pashman]

Where are we today? What's going on here?

[Sandy Pratt]

Where are we today? We are at Grace Church on the island of Martha's Vineyard and we are preparing to do our weekly Friday night lobster roll extravagan.

[Dan Pashman]

Every Friday night in the summer, this small Episcopal church on an island off the coast of Massachusetts sells lobster rolls in their parish hall. This is not your typical church fundraiser.

[Sandy Pratt]

Last week we sold 1400 lobster rolls out of this kitchen.

[Dan Pashman]

Wow. I grew up coming to Martha's Vineyard every summer with my family. And we have been eating these lobster rolls for years now, in case you're not familiar at its essence, a lobster roll is chunks of lobster meat mixed with mayo cold on a hot dog bun. And let me tell you, the ones at Grace Church are special.

[Captain Ralph Joseph]

Look at it. It's nothing but giant chunks of lobster with maybe enough mayonnaise to make the chunks stick together. You sink your teeth in it. It's so fresh, you can actually taste the brine. Have you had one?

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, absolutely.

[Captain Ralph Joseph]

Then why are you asking me that question?

[Dan Pashman]

These lobster rolls draw people from all walks of life on the Vineyard, not just the faithful members of Grace Church.

[Sandy Pratt]

Don't tell our rabbi where we go on Friday nights.

[Dan Pashman]

Been to the Vineyard unless you go to Grace Church on Fridays.

[Susan Eibner]

This became more than just a fundraiser. Churches have fundraisers. But what I saw was a community building. And anything that becomes a community builder is a ministry.

[Dan Pashman]

This is the Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. This week, as we kick off summertime, I'm traveling to New England, where a lobster roll is the perfect treat to grab on your way to or from the beach. Now, my mom's whole side of the family is from the Boston area. I went to college and lived there for six years. So hold my can of Narragansett lager while I stand up on my soapbox shaped like a lobster trap. A lobster roll is the best way to eat lobster. It's also the most cost effective, as I'll explain. But the superior taste, I think, comes from two facts. Number one, lobster is better when it's cool. It makes it so its thin skin snaps just a bit when you bite into it. Number two, mayo. It's a little bit acidic. It's just got more going on. Butter turns lobster meat slimy. Lobster goes better with mayo than butter. There, I said it. As I mentioned, to be a lobster roll, it's got to have lobster and mayo on a hot dog bun. Anything more is optional, of course, if it's going to be remotely respectable, the bun must be a New England style top sliced hot dog bun, which has the exposed bread on the sides instead of crust all around. In 1988, a group of six congregants at Grace Episcopal Church started selling lobster rolls on Friday evenings as a fundraiser. It was a small affair, but word of these lobster rolls started spreading and spreading. Today, they've been voted best on Martha's Vineyard for 15 straight years. One summer a few years back, I was on Martha's Vineyard with my family, visiting my parents who live there year round now. I went over to Grace Church on a Friday, a couple hours, where the lobster rolls would go on sale to talk with the folks who make them. How many lobster rolls do you eat in an average summer?

[Sandy Pratt]

In an average summer? One.

[Dan Pashman]

You're kidding.

[Sandy Pratt]

No, no. My girlfriend and I, the night of the fireworks, after working here, we sit on her porch in Oak Bluffs and we drink champagne and eat lobster rolls and then fall asleep on the porch. Last week we were here for nine hours. So, yeah, a lobster roll and a bottle of champagne is in order after that.

[Dan Pashman]

This is Sandy Pratt. She joined the lobster roll committee 25 years ago.

[Sandy Pratt]

My next door neighbor was one of the original lobster old ladies, and she got me roped into helping her on Friday nights. So every Friday night in the summertime, this is what I do.

[Dan Pashman]

So you're not one of the original six who were here in the very first year.

[Sandy Pratt]

The very first year.

[Dan Pashman]

But you're a very early adopter.

[Sandy Pratt]

The very first year. The very first year. The first woman who came up with the idea because she had a friend that did it at hers was a woman named Mary Tucker. She is now, I want to say 100, but I don't think she's quite 100. So she doesn't come in and make lobster rolls anymore.

[Dan Pashman]

But if I see her around, I'll tell her you said she was 100.

[Sandy Pratt]

Yeah, yeah, you can do that. She'd probably be pleased.

[Dan Pashman]

So what were those early years like?

[Sandy Pratt]

Well, I'll tell you, when I first started it, there were two couples that used to come in. He was a coach at the high school and his wife. And the other was an ex FBI guy and his wife. And they would come with a cooler full of cocktails. So at those point, at those nights, we were only doing maybe 100, 150 lobster rolls.

[Dan Pashman]

But you were having fun. That was a lot of fun.

[Sandy Pratt]

We were having a great time.

[Dan Pashman]

I didn't see any cocktails in the kitchen the night I was there. But one thing that hasn't changed, the recipe is lobster. Right.

[Roger McGarry]

Mayonnaise.

[Dan Pashman]

Right.

[Roger McGarry]

And white pepper. And tender loving care.

[Dan Pashman]

This is Roger McGarry, another volunteer. As we spoke, he was mixing several pounds of lobster meat with mayo in a huge bowl. And what are the ratios of lobster meat to mayo to white pepper?

[Sandy Pratt]

You.

[Roger McGarry]

It's a shake of the pepper, mix up the lobster. Shake a little more, mix up some more, and then you put mayo in just to make it squish. That's the formula. Make it squish. Once it squishes, you know you've got enough mayo.

[Dan Pashman]

Is there a sound that you listen for?

[Roger McGarry]

Absolutely.

[Dan Pashman]

I want to hear. I'm. Put my microphone close. I want to hear the sound.

[Roger McGarry]

You won't be. I don't know what you'll hear. Let's try it.

[Dan Pashman]

I'm cranking up the volume. All right, let's hear it. That's the squish.

[Roger McGarry]

That's the squish.

[Dan Pashman]

What does the wrong squish sound like?

[Roger McGarry]

The wrong squish is you don't get the squish. It's very light or it's just too wet because you put too much mayo in.

[Dan Pashman]

So too much mayo, it's gonna sound. I would think maybe it's gonna sound kind of heavy and gloopy.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

Yes. So there's literally no official recipe on any piece of paper somewhere?

[Bo Pickard]

No.

[Dan Pashman]

You just have to listen for the squish.

[Roger McGarry]

Yes. And one of the old timers that taught me how to mix said, when it squishes, you've got enough mayo. That's been my formula.

[Dan Pashman]

So that's Roger, or as I like to think of him, the keeper of the squish. The Grace Church recipe is most notable for what's not in it. No tarragon or dill, no scallions or paprika. Like these fancy places like to use not even any celery. And I'm actually okay with celery in a lobster roll as long as it's chopped very small. I like the zesty crunch. Most importantly, though, at Grace Church, no lettuce. A lot of places use lettuce and lobster rolls to deceive you. The lobster roll arrives with the meat piled high over the top of the bun. And you look at it and you think, wow, that's a lot of lobster. Then you bite into it and find out that hidden under all that meat is a bunch of lettuce, filling up the bun like packing peanuts. At Grace Church, it's all lobster. While Roger mixed, other folks were portioning the lobster meat into 8 ounce containers. And this is another thoughtful element to the operation. They don't combine the meat and buns until the last second. And if you order it to go, they give them to you separately. This keeps the buns from getting soggy. In my family, we take them home so we can griddle the buns in butter. That's a pretty crucial part of an ideal lobster roll. Gracechurch doesn't have the staff to individually griddle 1400 buns to order. As Roger, Sandy and several other crew members move around the kitchen, one man quietly keeps an eye on everything.

[Bo Pickard]

Everybody around here knows me as Bo Pickard.

[Dan Pashman]

Bo Pickard is originally from Worcester, Mass. He moved to the island 20 years ago. When we meet, he's wearing a hat made out of a giant plush lobster. Bo runs his own business repairing propane, gas lines and appliances. He's almost always on call for his customers. But for him, lobster roll nights are sacred.

[Bo Pickard]

I don't do my business on Fridays during the summer, my Fridays are here. You've got a problem. Unless there's an extreme emergency, you can wait till tomorrow.

[Dan Pashman]

Bo started volunteering at the lobster roll dinners in 2014. He liked it so much that he and his wife decided to join Grace Church. When the founding lobster roll ladies retired a few years ago, Bo took over as chair of the lobster roll committee. The money raised each summer goes towards the church's ministries and mission projects, including local and overseas organizations.

[Bo Pickard]

Last year, we got a late start. We cleared 48,800.

[Dan Pashman]

$48,000. Still, that's. I'm sure that makes a difference.

[Bo Pickard]

Yeah, and this year, we've topped that this year already. And we're not done yet.

[Dan Pashman]

So what's the all time record for most lobster rolls in one night?

[Bo Pickard]

Is it 15? I got the old. I got the old chart.

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, you got a chart. Let's see the chart. Show me the chart. Oh, look at this. Lobster roll sales. Wow. 2015. There was a stretch in July and August 2015. What was happening then? 1200, 1300, 1400. You had three weeks in a row of over 1400 lobster rolls.

[Bo Pickard]

People were still on the island and they. And they like to come for love to me.

[Dan Pashman]

As Bo reels off these numbers, I'm looking at these huge mixing bowls filled with chunks of lobster and I'm starting to wonder, where does all this lobster come from? I mean, I just always assumed the church had some setup with one of the fish markets on the island to get fresh local lobster. But it started to hit me. Half a pound of lobster per roll, 1,400 rolls in a night. That's 700 pounds of lobster meat sold in one evening. There are not many small local fish markets anywhere that can get you 700 pounds of fresh lobster meat all on the same day. I was nervous to ask Beau about it. I was afraid maybe I was digging into some closely guarded secret, but he

[Bo Pickard]

just told me, I get it through Cisco.

[Dan Pashman]

Okay.

[Bo Pickard]

And then they were, I think out of country. Canada, I think wherever.

[Dan Pashman]

Okay. In case you didn't catch that, Bo said he gets the lobster from Cisco. That's the same huge food service company that supplies restaurants all over the country, as well as school cafeterias and hospitals. You've probably seen their trucks on the highway. The lobster meat comes frozen in two pound bags. This blew my mind. For as long as I can remember, it has been drilled into my head that if seafood is going to be any good, it's got to be fresh, not frozen. I waited tables at a popular seafood restaurant in Boston and that's all they talked about. So how is it possible that the best lobster rolls I've ever had in my life are made with frozen lobster meat? I had come in search of lobster rolls, but it would appear I had stumbled into a mystery. Coming up, the search for answers. Then later, the the church doors open and lobster roll night begins. Stick around.

[Dan Pashman's Mom]

Time to cook up some advertisements.

[Dan Pashman]

Welcome back to the Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman. Last week on the show, we talked about the other thing that goes in a hot dog. Bu. Hot dogs. And comedian Jamie Loftus knows what she wants when it comes to a hot dog bun. I prefer toasted. I like steamed, but you can't do nothing. You can't do what my dad did

[Simone Pratt]

and shake it out raw and then

[Dan Pashman]

slap in a boiled hot dog and be like, this is how I express love.

[Sandy Pratt]

But like.

[Dan Pashman]

Jamie tells us about her cross country road trip when she sampled some of the finest dogs America has to offer. She shares her findings with us. Plus, we look at the dark history of the Nathan's hot dog eating contest and. And we discuss what makes hot dogs so American. That one's up now. Check it out. Now back to the show. When we left off, our heartwarming story about Grace Church's lobster roll night had turned into a mystery. Conventional wisdom says fresh seafood is always better than frozen. So how is it possible that the best lobster rolls I've ever had in my life are made with frozen lobster meat? As soon as Bo told me the lobster was frozen, I told him, I said, bo, you got to walk me through the whole process. All right, tell me exactly what you you do with it. He said it arrives on a Monday and he thaws it out slowly over the course of the week.

[Bo Pickard]

We drained the lobster meat, let it drain naturally. I filled up containers with special containers that I use that are like a square colander.

[Dan Pashman]

Right.

[Bo Pickard]

And we put the lobster meat in that in the packages, and then it drains down onto a regular plastic pan below that. We do that on Wednesday. We do that again on Thursday. And then on Friday morning, they hear,

[Dan Pashman]

wait, so what's the liquid that's being drained from them?

[Bo Pickard]

The natural water that comes from the lobster.

[Dan Pashman]

That's interesting, because one of the things that I've noticed at some other lobster rolls that I've eaten that were less good is that they're kind of watery. The meat tastes a little watery, and I guess that must be because they're not draining the meat as much.

[Bo Pickard]

That's very possible. Yeah. No, we just let it drain naturally.

[Dan Pashman]

So BO basically made special giant strainers for thawing and draining the lobster meat. Lobsters are especially wet creatures, so this process naturally removes a lot of water from the meat. BO comes in every day throughout the week to empty the water from the trays. So what exactly does that do? I reached out to my friend Daniel Gritzer. He's the senior culinary director at serious eats, and when I talked to him, he had just gotten back from Maine, so he had been eating a lot of lobster rolls. First thing to know, I think the

[Daniel Gritzer]

success of a lobster roll largely hinges on the texture of the lobster meat, and in particular, the tail, because the tail meat can become very chewy very quickly. And if you think of sort of your ideal sandwich, and, you know, putting aside whether we consider a lobster roll a sandwich type situation, we never want, when we're eating any kind of sandwich, to take a bite and you pull the sandwich away, that you somehow accidentally pull the contents of the sandwich out with it.

[Dan Pashman]

Bottom line, if the tail meat is tough, you can't bite all the way through it, and you end up pulling it out in one big chunk. So what does freezing do?

[Daniel Gritzer]

Any kind of seafood that has a tendency towards toughness can sometimes be better after freezing, because the freezing itself can act as a tenderizing process. Sort of like, you know, some people like to beat their octopus before they cook it, to tenderize it. The ice crystals kind of do the same thing. When you freeze meat, ice crystals form in that meat, and those ice crystals can puncture and break open the cells that the meat itself is built out of. By cutting through the cells and cutting through the tissue, you've got this tenderizing effect. And maybe the tail meat in the lobster benefits from that.

[Dan Pashman]

But what about this idea? I've heard the frozen seafood isn't as good as Daniel says. There is some Merit to that. He says typically, those ice crystals hurt a lobster's more delicate claw meat. They tear up the cells and leave tiny holes, making the claw meat spongy. Not so good. But that's where the Grace Church draining process comes to the rescue.

[Daniel Gritzer]

Maybe the prolonged draining allows that to collapse down on itself a little bit, so that you're not only getting a concentration of flavor, but maybe you're also sort of fixing some of those textural issues that the claw can really suffer from.

[Dan Pashman]

Daniel says this all seems very plausible to him, but he adds that to be sure, we'd have to do a proper study. Guess we're gonna have to eat more lobster rolls. There is one more bit of science that I have to reference that I think helps explain why these lobster rolls are so good. There's a researcher at Oxford named Charles Spence. We've had him here on the podcast before, and he has shown that the setting for a meal influences how the food tastes to us. Spence's work inspired chef Heston Blumenthal to serve a seafood dish with headphones at his restaurant in London. As you eat your seafood, you hear sounds of the ocean and seagulls. Research shows that actually makes you think the fish tastes fresher, better. At Grace Church, you don't need headphones. You can smell the salt water from the front door.

[Susan Eibner]

It does taste better when you're sitting near the ocean.

[Dan Pashman]

100%. Like, the only other lobster rolls that I've ever had that I enjoy nearly as much as the Grace Church ones come from Kelly's on a Revere beach.

[Susan Eibner]

Oh, okay.

[Dan Pashman]

Just north of Boston. This is Susan Eibner. She's the interim priest at Grace Church. I believe they put little bits of celery in. How do you feel about that?

[Susan Eibner]

No, no celery. That's too bad.

[Dan Pashman]

Yeah.

[Sandy Pratt]

No.

[Dan Pashman]

Yeah. But when I find the ones nowadays that have, like, tarragon is about the dill. Or they want to put. It's just like.

[Susan Eibner]

Or they fill it. They do the filler with the lettuce.

[Dan Pashman]

Unacceptable.

[Susan Eibner]

Yeah. We literally. Did they show you how they weigh out every single container? Or lobster roll gets the same amount?

[Dan Pashman]

Absolutely. Eight ounces.

[Susan Eibner]

Eight ounces.

[Dan Pashman]

Which is a lot.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

It is.

[Dan Pashman]

You know, it's Susan. Because I think that a lot of people perceive lobster rolls as expensive because they're on a menu. They're often, like, in the sandwich section. And so if you're looking at roast beef sandwich, $8, turkey sandwich, $9, and then you see lobster roll, $20, you're like, whoa, that's an expensive sandwich, but I don't think that's the right economic way to think about it because 8 ounces of lobster meat. I actually researched this today before coming here because I was curious. On average, a one pound lobster in the shell yields three to three and a half ounces.

[Sandy Pratt]

Yeah.

[Susan Eibner]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

So you're doing eight ounces. That means that it is more meat than you would get from a two pound lobster, which is big.

[Susan Eibner]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

If you were to go into a nice restaurant and order a two pound lobster with the drawn butter and all that, the whole big lobster on the plate, it would cost way more than $20.

[Sandy Pratt]

Yes. Yes, it would.

[Susan Eibner]

You're absolutely right.

[Dan Pashman]

Yeah. Susan clearly knows her way around a lobster roll. She was born and raised in Maine and she's seen her share of church fundraisers. She's been a pastor all over the country. In fact, that's her job. She works with churches when they're in between priests. Sometimes she stays a few months, sometimes a few years. She's been at Grace Church since 2016.

[Susan Eibner]

I got the job here because I have dealt with community grief. And their last priest died and they were heartbroken. And so this has been a time of helping them to really come back to their own.

[Dan Pashman]

Susan says these lobster roll dinners at Grace Church are the most ambitious church fundraiser she has ever encountered. But they're special in another way, too.

[Susan Eibner]

People come in and it's like old home week. It's like everybody comes in and they're glad to see each other and they've seen. Seen each other other summers and people meet people here and remember people here and go and sit at tables together that they only do here on Friday nights. And anything that becomes a community builder in this day and age is a ministry.

[Dan Pashman]

Another thing that brings new people into Grace Church, the stained glass windows that depict two black priests who were early leaders in the Episcopal Church. Those windows are part of Martha's Vineyard's African American Heritage Trail.

[Susan Eibner]

People are coming in and going, so where are the windows?

[Dan Pashman]

Can you mind. Can we take a quick look? We left the parish hall and went into the church sanctuary.

[Susan Eibner]

So this is the window for the first African American Episcopal priest is Absalom Jones.

[Dan Pashman]

Reverend Jones is depicted in a black robe holding a communion cup and a wafer. The other window features the right Reverend John M. Burgess, the first African American diocesan bishop. He's in a white robe, holding a candle lighter and a Bible, seeing people

[Susan Eibner]

come in and seeing those windows. One woman said to me, there's only one other church in My entire life that I ever saw an African American depicted somebody who looked like me in a stained glass window. And it was just one of those moments where, as a white woman of privilege, I think is the way I would describe myself. I was stunned by that. I had never. I had thought about the fact that Jesus wasn't white, thank you very much. But he was never depicted that way, the way he really was. He's usually depicted as a white man, but I'd never really thought about the fact that African Americans didn't see stained glass windows where the faces of people looked like them. And so there was learning for me and there was a pride in the people who go in and look at the two windows.

[Dan Pashman]

After getting a good look at the stained glass windows, Susan and I returned to the parish hall where the doors were just about to open for lobster roll night. Everyone was moving around the room faster now. There was less joking around. People had their game faces on. It was time to ask Pastor Susan one last question. How do you like your lobster roll?

[Susan Eibner]

They pretty much have it. I grew up in down East Maine.

[Dan Pashman]

Oh.

[Susan Eibner]

Oh, yes.

[Dan Pashman]

So you're like New England to the core.

[Susan Eibner]

I am, yeah. And lobster roll to the core. You don't mess with lobster. I'm a purist.

[Dan Pashman]

Yeah.

[Susan Eibner]

I fit in here.

[Dan Pashman]

I love that you describe yourself as a purist in terms of lobster rolls because you're like, Jesus wasn't white, but don't you dare put tarragon on my lobster roll. That's right. That's right.

[Susan Eibner]

There's, you know.

[Dan Pashman]

Right.

[Susan Eibner]

That's the Episcopal Church in a nutshell.

[Dan Pashman]

We take one more quick break, but coming up, Grace Church opens its doors to the Martha's Vineyard masses. And my mom reveals her tricks for assembling the perfect lobster roll. Stick around. Welcome back to the Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman, and today I am at Grace Church on Martha's Vineyard in where it's lobster roll night. Sandy, can I check in with you?

[Sandy Pratt]

Yes.

[Dan Pashman]

It's just a few minutes before 4. Update me. Where do things stand?

[Sandy Pratt]

Where do things stand? Well, we are ready. We've got all our stations manned. The pie table is full of pies, and we're ready. Hopefully we can move them in and move them out.

[Dan Pashman]

And what are the emotions like over the course of the day of Friday building up to this moment when the doors open? Let there be a long line.

[Sandy Pratt]

Yeah, there you go. That's it. That's the one. Let it be a good night. Let it be a good night. And let nobody yell at anybody in the kitchen. Sometimes it gets a little tense in the kitchen. These guys will get backed up, and we won't have enough containers for them. And we'll be trying to make them as fast as we can. And they're standing there and go, I need three more. And we say, you know, you'll get them when we're ready.

[Dan Pashman]

At 4:00', clock, the doors open. Ten minutes later, they had sold 100 lobster rolls, and there was a line out the door. The hall is a pretty typical church function room. Wood ceilings, simple decorations. It has three or four big round tables with red and white checkered tablecloths. The tables are communal, so different groups end up sitting together. There was the college student here working for the summer, having her first grace church experience. I think the amount of lobster that came on the roll was a little shocking when it first came out. The husband and wife pilots were on the island for the season.

[Bo Pickard]

We know people that fly in from Connecticut on Fridays to come here because, first of all, the lobster rolls are delicious. And secondly, the charity is wonderful.

[Dan Pashman]

And a woman who's been coming to Martha's Vineyard for 40 years, since she

[Simone Pratt]

was a baby, the lobster is big and juicy. I mean, they have, like, the biggest lobster pieces that I've seen, the chunks.

[Dan Pashman]

So.

[Simone Pratt]

And it's like, nice and sweet and just tastes really good. And everybody's friendly, so I guess that makes it special, too.

[Dan Pashman]

Then there was this guy. Can you tell me your name, please?

[Captain Ralph Joseph]

Hi, I'm captain Ralph Joseph.

[Dan Pashman]

Hey, captain. Oh, here's your business card. Okay.

[Captain Ralph Joseph]

I advertise lobster roll charters. You guys are my biggest drawer out of New Bedford. And people stand in line at the docks to come out here and have these lobster rolls.

[Dan Pashman]

Wait, seriously? Lobster roll charters in New bedford, Massachusetts, People hire you to take them in a boat from New Bedford to Martha's vineyard just to eat these lobster rolls?

[Captain Ralph Joseph]

Well, then I talk them into it. They do some shopping, they mingle with the locals. I mean, they enjoy the island. But the highlight that I advertise is the lobster rolls.

[Dan Pashman]

These lobster rolls?

[Captain Ralph Joseph]

Absolutely.

[Dan Pashman]

I spotted beau in the corner of the kitchen, surveying the scene. His plush lobster hat had gotten turned a little crooked in all the craziness. All right, Bo, you look like you're taking a minute to yourself. How are things going? How's the night proceeding so far?

[Bo Pickard]

Good. Very good.

[Dan Pashman]

Can you tell at this point? We're at about 30 minutes in now. Can you tell how big of a night it's going to be?

[Bo Pickard]

Nope.

[Roger McGarry]

No.

[Bo Pickard]

Way.

[Dan Pashman]

So like in 10 minutes, a thousand people may show up.

[Bo Pickard]

Or 10 minutes could stop dead.

[Dan Pashman]

Right?

[Bo Pickard]

No clue.

[Dan Pashman]

Right, right.

[Bo Pickard]

I'm hoping for at least a thousand.

[Dan Pashman]

All right, all right. That's a good goal.

[Bo Pickard]

Good goal.

[Dan Pashman]

At this point, I was starving. It was time to place my order. All right, well, Louise, I would like four lobster rolls, please.

[Dan Pashman's Mom]

You would like four lobster rolls.

[Dan Pashman]

As they put my food together, I chatted with Simone Pratt. She's been coming to Martha's Vineyard every summer for more than 20 years, since she was in college.

[Simone Pratt]

I'm kind of a traditionalist. I like tradition. I like passing on traditions in my family. So I think also the mystique of coming here and doing this, I only come once a year here, so I think it adds to the fandom.

[Dan Pashman]

You don't seem to be eating a lobster roll.

[Simone Pratt]

Cause I have it in a container because I'm going out to watch the sunset in Manemsha, so I'm going to eat it while I'm watching the sunset.

[Dan Pashman]

So lobster rolls and sunsets for you tonight.

[Sandy Pratt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Simone Pratt]

Lobster roll and sunset. It's kind of perfect.

[Dan Pashman]

I took my family's lobster rolls, meat and buns, still separate, back to my parents house. After Janie and I put the kids to bed, my mom and I griddled up the buns in butter. Remember, these are New England style hot dog buns. So picture a slice of white bread folded in half so you have open bread on the sides. Bread that you can butter and griddle. My mom's got it down to a science. Oh, look at.

[Dan Pashman's Mom]

And it smells so good.

[Dan Pashman]

It smells very butter right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan Pashman's Mom]

I brush melted butter, salted melted butter on each side of the roll, and then I put it in the skillet and they get really crispy and buttery and warm. And you stuff the lobster meat until the roll almost splits. If the roll splits, you've not done it correctly. The roll has to be warm and the lobster meat has to be cold. And you have that contrast of warm and not ice cold, but cool. That's, that's what it's about.

[Dan Pashman]

I agree.

[Dan Pashman's Mom]

Okay, But I, I, we agree about something, Dan. That's really good.

[Dan Pashman]

I didn't record the actual eating of the lobster rolls because I was on vacation and I just wanted to enjoy my food. Suffice it to say, they were as amazing as always. The claws tender and plump. The tail meat meaty but not tough. And like my mom said, that contrast with the warm, buttery bun, I mean, that is all you need a few final notes. First, I am aware of the Connecticut Lobster Roll, which is warm lobster meat in butter on a bun. But that is an abomination, which is why it was omitted from this episode. Moving on. Remember, Bo said he was hoping to sell 1,000 lobster rolls that night. I was there. They ended up selling $8.52 solid showing. Also, Grace Church now has a permanent rector to replace interim priest Susan Eibner. His name's Stephen Harding, and like Susan, he's a New England native, so I think Grace Church's lobster rolls will be safe under his leadership. He's not gonna try to sneak any lett. My thanks to Beau, Sandy, Susan, Roger, and to Karen Huff of the Grace Church Lobster Roll Committee for being part of this episode. For pictures of the lobster rolls and other stuff I'm eating, please follow me on Instagram hesporkful Finally, some related Martha's Vineyard news. I'm going to be moderating a panel at a food history symposium called Martha's Vineyard Flavors, happening this weekend, the first weekend in June at the Martha's Vineyard Museum. The panel I'm moderating will feature author Joan Nathan, restaurateur Hugh Taylor, chef Austin Racine of Moe's Lunch, and Rebecca Miller of North Tabor Farm. And this is part of a weekend of festivities, demonstrations, talks and delicious meals. You can get a ticket for the whole weekend or you can get tickets for just part of the weekend. So if you get Saturday afternoon, June 3rd, that will include the event that I'm moderating. Hope to see you there. Get more info and [e-mail] we'll also put a link in the show notes Next week, ahead of the Top Chef finale, I talk with Gail Simmons about her 20 seasons as a judge on the show. The latest season was filmed in London, so she tells me about her favorite chocolate bars across the pond. Plus, we hear why she resented that her mother was a food writer and cooking teacher. While you wait for that one, check out my conversation with Jamie Loftus about hot dogs and much more that's available now. This episode was originally produced by me, along with and Sandy and Ngofen M. Putubwele. It was edited by Peter Clowney. The Sporkful team now is senior producer Emma Morgenstern and producer Andres o'.

[Bo Pickard]

Hara.

[Dan Pashman]

Our engineer is Jared o'.

[Bo Pickard]

Connell.

[Dan Pashman]

Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkville is a production of Stitcher Studios. Our executive producers are Colin Anderson and Nora Richie. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

[Susan Eibner]

And I'm Liz Wing from Somerville, Massachusetts, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.

[Podcast Sponsor/Announcer]

I really hope you're enjoying the show, and before I let you go, I just want to drop in with that constant podcaster's reminder to please rate the show, leave us a review, subscribe, and of course, tell a friend. All that stuff really, really does help us keep the show going. Thank you so much

[Susan Eibner]

from PRX.