Podcast Summary: Scrolling 2 Death

Episode Title: EdTech is Big Tech: Schools, Screens, and the Law (with Emily Cherkin)
Host: Nicki Petrossi
Guest: Emily Cherkin (The Screen Time Consultant)
Date: January 19, 2026

Episode Overview

In this compelling episode, Nicki Petrossi sits down with Emily Cherkin, known as The Screen Time Consultant, to dissect the role of educational technology ("EdTech") in schools—arguing that EdTech is fundamentally an extension of Big Tech. Their discussion traverses growing parental concerns, the blurred line between home and school screen usage, legal action and advocacy, and preserving democracy and childhood in the digital era. The episode is rich with actionable insight, memorable metaphors, and a clear call for collective action among parents, teachers, and policymakers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. EdTech and Big Tech: No Separation

• Main Idea: Cherkin asserts that educational technology, often perceived as benign or educational, is fundamentally driven by the same business models as commercial Big Tech companies.
  • "It's the same companies. It's ed tech as big tech in a sweater vest." (Emily Cherkin, 02:19)
  • “Ed tech is Big Tech.” (Nicki Petrossi, 02:29)
• Critical Flaw: Schools ban phones, then issue iPads and expect different behavior, ignoring the source and nature of the technology.

2. The False Divide: Home vs. School Screen Time

• There is little difference between “school” and “home” screen time in terms of impact.
  • "Screen time is screen time is screen time." (Nicki, 03:49)
  • NIH studies show changes in children's brain white matter from excessive screen time, regardless of setting, affecting reading and literacy.

3. Literacy, Brain Development & Democracy

• Screen Impact on Literacy: Research (referenced from Jared Cooney Horvath’s book Digital Delusion) connects excessive screen time to declines in literacy and comprehension.
  • "Literacy is not just the ability to read. It's the ability to make meaning of what you read." (Emily, 04:16)
• Democracy at Risk: Reduced critical thinking (from “surface reading”) affects the functioning of an informed citizenry, thus threatening democracy.
  • "It's a threat to democracy. Because if you have people who can read words but not make meaning from them...that is not an informed citizenry." (Emily, 04:51)
  • This issue is not partisan, but a broad societal concern.

4. Social Pressures & Parenting Dilemmas

• Parents rapidly lose control over their children’s tech exposure due to peer and institutional influences.
  • “Parents can be doing everything right. You can never let your kid touch a screen...until they go to school or a friend's house.” (Emily, 07:29)
• The age of exposure is dropping rapidly (children as young as eight are texting and forming relationships).
  • “Middle school students who are still losing baby teeth...making sex noises in class, imitating what they see and hear.” (Emily, 09:20)

5. Advocacy within Schools: Questions and Opt-Outs

• Infiltration of Big Tech: EdTech platforms, often uncritically adopted, permeate public schools—data mining, surveillance, and “workarounds” (e.g., YouTube, TikTok even when blocked).
• Advocacy Advice:
  • Replace judgment with curiosity; start by asking detailed questions about what platforms and products are used.
  • "You're not opting out of curriculum. You're opting out of data mining and surveillance and the Internet." (Emily, paraphrasing Andy Liddell, 11:53)
• Resistance is Necessary: Opting out is difficult, often discouraged, and sometimes undermines accommodations for those who genuinely need tech access.

6. Rethinking “Educational” Technology

• Smart Boards, GoNoodle, and Beyond: Teacher-facing technologies are not exempt—every tech product, even if not directly used by students, affects the learning environment.
  • "Just because we can, doesn't mean we should...I don't think the benefits justify the costs." (Emily, 14:29)
• Efficacy, Safety, Legality Test: Any tech in school should be effective, safe, and legal. Currently, most are not.

7. Power of Collective Advocacy (Fish Metaphor)

• Cherkin uses the “first fish” metaphor: “It takes one fish to peel away, but actually a second and third before the school shifts.” (Emily, 16:42)
• Nicki adds: “Find other families to go in with you from the start, if possible.” (Nicki, 19:08)

8. Federal Policy & Senate Testimony (24:00+)

• Emily prepared to testify before the Senate Committee on Commerce, Technology, and Transportation.
  • Task: Summarize the impact of tech on childhood in 5 minutes.
  • "If we were handing out fentanyl to kindergartners, I think people would be pretty upset by that. And yet we're essentially handing out drugs to children and then telling parents they can't complain." (Emily, 20:01)
• Discussion of the Kids Off Social Media Act (KOSMA), which would:
  • Restrict algorithms serving addictive content to kids under 17.
  • Block social media content on federally funded school networks/devices.

9. Tech Executives and Private School Paradox

• Big Tech execs send their kids to low-tech private schools while their products flood public education.
  • "They are literally paying to operate these private schools while shoving...products into public education." (Emily, 22:51)

10. Data Privacy, Lawsuits & Systemic Barriers

• Lawsuits: Emily is a plaintiff in a class-action suit against PowerSchool for unauthorized data collection and selling.
  • Data collected: thousands of files on students, including video, audio, and personal information irrelevant to learning.
  • FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act) is outdated and poorly enforced (last updated 1974).
• Call to Action for Parents:
  • Reach out to EdTech Law Center—no cost, contingency-based.
  • Lawsuits are one path; other avenues include school board advocacy, letters, opt-outs, coalition-building.

11. Teachers as Allies & Unintended Consequences

• Teachers Overwhelmed and Disempowered: Tech shifts workload and reduces meaningful interaction.
  • “When I as a teacher was being asked to use tech-based tools...it completely changed my ability to be present.” (Emily, 33:09)
• Loss of Analog Skills: Newer teachers lack experience outside digital systems; students don’t receive personal, handwritten feedback.

12. Building Hope & Unity

• "For the first time this past six months, I feel different. Things feel different...If you speak up now, it's gonna land differently than it did a year ago." (Emily, 46:15)
• Find resources at thescreentimeconsultant.com and firstfish.substack.com

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On EdTech’s Origin:

  "It's ed tech as big tech in a sweater vest." — Emily (02:19)

• On Literacy as Democracy’s Foundation:

  "If you have people who can read words but not make meaning from them...that is deeply worrisome." — Emily (04:51)

• On Parental Powerlessness:

  "Parents can be doing everything right. You can never let your kid touch a screen...until they go to school or a friend's house and then all bets are off." — Emily (07:29)

• On the Burden of Being First:

  "Sometimes what you're voicing as a parent, your concerns, is what a lot of other parents are feeling but are afraid to speak up first." — Emily (16:42)

• On the EdTech Paradox:

  "They know and they act. They do something really different for their own kids. But our kids go to the public school to use the products they're making." — Emily (22:51)

• On Legal Redress:

  "You're not opting out of curriculum. You're opting out of data mining and surveillance." — Emily (12:02, paraphrasing Andy Liddell)

• On Action and Solidarity:

  "The second and third fish are as important as the first ones. Exactly, exactly. We need you." — Emily (46:06)

Important Timestamps

• 01:43 — EdTech and Big Tech are the same; flaws of differentiating school/home screens
• 03:21 — Parent Q&A: Screen time & literacy decline, brain scan findings
• 04:16 — Literacy’s broad definition and societal consequences
• 07:29 — Parental limits undermined by external environments
• 10:48 — Big Tech's deep infiltration into schools and limits of opting out
• 13:26 — Early advocacy by preschool/kindergarten parents
• 14:29 — Definition of EdTech: Not just student-facing, but also teacher-facing tools
• 16:42 — First-fish metaphor for collective action
• 19:36 — Organizing and coalition-building at scale
• 20:01 — Testifying in the Senate; analogy to "handing out drugs to children"
• 22:51 — Private school/Big Tech paradox
• 24:32 — Federal legislation (KOSMA), links between personal screens and school tech
• 33:09 — Teachers overwhelmed and the loss of analog classroom experience
• 36:22 — Lawsuit against PowerSchool and sketchy EdTech data collection
• 39:53 — FERPA loopholes and what’s at risk in student data
• 46:06 — Closing words of hope and encouragement

Resource Links Shared

• thescreentimeconsultant.com
• firstfish.substack.com
• Select resources/toolkits referenced throughout episode.

Final Takeaways

• EdTech is not separate from Big Tech; parental advocacy starts with questions and collective action.
• Teachers, parents, and activists share aligned interests—building strong coalitions is critical.
• Lawsuits and policy action are gaining traction; now is a hopeful moment for real change.
• Parents are urged to take the first, or second, or third step—every act of advocacy matters.

"The second and third fish are as important as the first ones. We need you." — Emily Cherkin (46:06)