Podcast Summary: Scrolling 2 Death
Episode: How Youth Voices are Reclaiming the Digital Future
Host: Nicki Petrossi
Guest: Ava Smithing (Advocacy Director, Young People's Alliance; Youth Fellow, McGill University)
Date: November 24, 2025
Overview
In this episode, Nicki Petrossi welcomes recurring guest Ava Smithing to discuss how youth are reclaiming the narrative around digital spaces. Ava shares her personal journey from being harmed by social media to now advocating for safer online ecosystems, and she introduces her new investigative podcast—centering youth voices—about the complex realities of growing up in the digital era. Together, Nicki and Ava dissect issues of data privacy, algorithmic harm, empowering youth, parental roles, and the importance of creating hopeful, action-oriented conversations.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Ava's Personal Story and Motivation
[00:51 – 02:07]
- Ava describes falling into an Instagram-fueled eating disorder as a teen, made worse by targeted content based on her behavior.
- She details connecting her personal struggles to corporate decisions and data collection after whistleblower Frances Haugen's revelations.
- Advocacy work began after college, focusing on pushing for legislative changes to protect young people.
Notable Quote:
"I just like to say I was one of the teenage girls on Instagram with an eating disorder... They collected my data, they collected my frigging eye movements, and they got me from bikini advertisements to dieting content to just the most nasty eating disorder content."
— Ava Smithing [00:51]
How Algorithms Exploit Human Instincts
[02:29 – 08:31]
- Ava explains the shift from chronological to algorithm-driven feeds, emphasizing that platforms misinterpret user attention as preference without considering negativity bias.
- Algorithms equate prolonged attention with “want,” but often users linger because of discomfort or threat, not desire.
- She describes "collaborative filtering" and how it leads to harmful content spirals.
Notable Quote:
"If the algorithm was doing what it was supposed to be doing, it would ask me what I wanted to see and then show me more of that. It wouldn't make those decisions on its own for me."
— Ava Smithing [05:27]
- Discussion of happy-oriented platforms (e.g., We Are 8): content that actually makes users feel good may lead them to leave the app, which runs counter to platform interests.
Nicki Reflects:
"If Instagram does the good job of making you feel happy, then you're going to use it significantly less."
— Nicki Petrossi [08:31]
Data Collection and Privacy Harms (Especially for Youth)
[09:10 – 16:32]
- Ava and Nicki discuss the overwhelming scale and impact of data collection—from millions of data points by adolescence, much accumulated by parental sharing and ed tech.
- Discusses how personal behavioral data and metadata are used to target parents and youth with predatory ads (e.g., detecting when teens delete a selfie and pushing beauty ads at that vulnerable moment).
Notable Quote:
"Your data, as on your own, isn't that valuable. But your data can pair it against every single other person's data in the entire world. Now that's valuable because they can track, like, Nikki did this and then that and Ava did this, so she'll probably do that too."
— Ava Smithing [15:20]
- Raises concern over the lack of informed consent and the impossibility for even lawyers to parse terms and conditions.
The Legal & Ethical Gap: Informed Consent & Ed Tech
[17:45 – 19:07]
- Nicki explains why current consent mechanisms fail—parents aren't always aware of what they're signing up for, especially with school-issued tech.
- Ava references testimony in Congress, affirming even top legal experts can't genuinely interpret standard terms & conditions.
Notable Quote:
"David, who's a lawyer trained in this was like, No, I was like, if he can't do it, no way I can do it."
— Ava Smithing [18:56]
"Left to Their Own Devices": New Youth-Led Investigation
[19:36 – 22:02]
- Ava announces her new 10-part podcast series, partnering with the Toronto Star and Paradigms, focused on youth experiences growing up online.
- Project emphasizes:
- Centering Real Youth Lived Experience: Moving beyond parent-driven narratives.
- Nuanced Benefits & Harms: Not just what went wrong, but what positive digital community can look like if platforms are accountable.
- Highlighting Youth Agency: Features stories from young people who have overcome harm, started movements, and led litigation.
Notable Quote:
"We just, we wanted to tell this story from the angle of the young people and from the angle of nuanced. There's up and downs."
— Ava Smithing [21:30]
Hope, Nuance, and Building Better Digital Spaces
[23:32 – 24:46]
- Ava is surprised and moved by the optimism and resilience of young people harmed by digital platforms, who remain hopeful for healthier online futures.
- They stress the importance of holding on to the positive transformative potential of technology.
Notable Quote:
"Even though they had the worst of the worst happen to them, they still believe in what the promise of the Internet is."
— Ava Smithing [23:35]
Youth Empowerment vs. Corporate Apathy
[26:00 – 27:49]
- Youth-led actions (protests, research) are increasingly successful in pressuring companies like Meta and Apple, though companies still evade meaningful response.
- Nicki highlights new research—teens continue to be exposed to harm, but youth-led protests and research are gaining traction.
A Generational Perspective: Grief & Gratitude
[28:00 – 29:58]
- Ava expresses frustration at those "caught" in the worst years of algorithmic harm, but also gratitude that things are shifting for the next generation.
- Nostalgia for analog childhoods (landlines, computer carts) and recognizing how rare—yet valuable—those experiences now seem.
Notable Quote:
"Nobody should have to go through that for no reason."
— Ava Smithing [29:04]
Encouraging Intergenerational Conversation
[31:01 – 32:32]
- Ava sees the podcast as a launchpad for youth and parents to have honest, agency-oriented conversations about tech, without fear-mongering.
- She recommends using episodes as a "podcast book club" for families.
Final Recommendations & Warnings
[32:36 – 33:14]
- The podcast Left to Their Own Devices is available everywhere; content advisories given at the start of heavy episodes; some mild language.
- Ava emphasizes striving for objective, nuanced journalism and hopes the series opens up empowering dialogue.
Memorable Quotes & Moments
-
"If Instagram does the good job of making you feel happy, then you're going to use it significantly less."
— Nicki Petrossi [08:31] -
"It's not for you. ... They only have to collect that data to power a product that also fuels the world's largest and most nefarious advertising machine."
— Ava Smithing [17:34] -
"Kids, especially 16, 17 year olds, don't like it when their parents tell them what to do. ... So to hear it from somebody who went through it and from somebody who is still, like, I would consider myself at this point to still be young and hip. Right. Maybe that's what these younger people need to hear."
— Ava Smithing [31:13]
Key Timestamps
- 00:51 — Ava’s personal story of algorithm-driven harm
- 02:29 — How the algorithm exploits negativity bias
- 05:06 — The “it’s just what users want” myth
- 07:20 — How happy content leads users to leave platforms
- 09:10 — The scale of youth data collection
- 14:05 — Individual vs. network data value for companies
- 17:08 — Predatory ad targeting after sensitive actions
- 19:36 — Ava’s new youth-centered investigation announced
- 23:32 — Surprised by youth hope despite digital harms
- 26:00 — Youth-led activism making waves
- 28:01 — Generational “gap” in tech harm
- 31:12 — How podcast can open family dialogue
- 32:36 — Podcast audience and parent guidance
Conclusion
This episode powerfully centers the voices and agency of young people in shaping a safer, more ethical digital future, addressing both systemic harms and avenues for hope and action. Ava’s new podcast “Left to Their Own Devices” offers a platform for nuanced, youth-driven storytelling—recommended as both a resource for families and a roadmap for collective advocacy.