Beyond Process Compliance: True Indicators of Agile Team Maturity | Karen Suarez

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches

Episode: Beyond Process Compliance: True Indicators of Agile Team Maturity | Karen Suarez

Release Date: March 20, 2025
Host: Vasco Duarte, Agile Coach, Certified Scrum Master, Certified Product Owner
Guest: Karen Suarez

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1. Introduction to Agile Team Maturity

In this episode, host Vasco Duarte engages in a profound conversation with Karen Suarez about the true indicators of Agile team maturity beyond mere process compliance. Karen shares her extensive experience as a Scrum Master and Agile Coach, providing actionable insights into fostering mature, autonomous, and high-performing Agile teams.

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2. Favorite Retrospective Formats

Karen Suarez emphasizes the importance of simplicity in retrospective formats to encourage open dialogue and vulnerability within the team.

"I actually like to work with simple formats, something like start, stop, continue. I prefer to leave the room to dialogue. I work on the team members' vulnerability. So the most painful topics are brought to light."
– Karen Suarez [01:27]

She occasionally incorporates thematic elements like holidays to keep retrospectives engaging and relatable.

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3. Creating Space for Dialogue and Vulnerability

Vasco probes into Karen’s strategies for fostering an environment where team members feel safe to express vulnerability.

"What I realized is that I cannot do that only in the retrospective event. I needed to do outside that, take more time. So I spend time individually with people collectively in a collective informal way also."
– Karen Suarez [02:43]

Karen highlights the necessity of building trust beyond structured meetings by engaging informally and personally with team members.

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4. Modeling Vulnerable Behavior as a Scrum Master

Karen discusses the critical role of the Scrum Master in modeling vulnerability to encourage openness within the team.

"Once they see I'm open to do that, that I struggle with stuff also and that I need their help in order to get better, they start opening themselves."
– Karen Suarez [03:14]

By sharing her own challenges and seeking assistance, Karen demonstrates that vulnerability is a strength, thereby empowering team members to do the same.

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5. Defining Success as a Scrum Master

When reflecting on success, Karen articulates that true success lies in the team's autonomy and ability to function independently.

"The first thing is what I am capable to do. The team is also capable to do once they master or they are autonomous enough to do what I learned, what I brought to the team, I believe that as a success."
– Karen Suarez [06:49]

She views her role as a facilitator and mentor, aiming to empower the team to sustain Agile practices without her constant presence.

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6. Team Autonomy and Trust

Karen shares a poignant example of managing team dynamics and trust by addressing underperformance within the team.

"We had a team member who wasn't really a team player... he was really evading all of the work... It was a problem of trust."
– Karen Suarez [07:20]

Through open discussions and assertive actions, Karen helped the team navigate the difficult decision to remove an impediment, thereby reinforcing trust and cohesion.

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7. Handling Conflict within the Team

Karen emphasizes that accepting and effectively managing conflict is a hallmark of a mature Agile team.

"Success is when we accept conflict, when not everything is in harmony and we deal with, with conflict."
– Karen Suarez [10:36]

She believes that addressing conflicts head-on prevents small issues from escalating and fosters a more resilient team environment.

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8. Adaptability at Multiple Levels

Adaptability is highlighted as a crucial aspect of Agile maturity, both at the team and product levels.

"Agile is all about adapting to that feedback that is coming in... If we are not adapting the product, there is no need to adapt because it's something straightforward."
– Karen Suarez [13:18]

Karen underscores the importance of responsive product roadmaps and encourages teams to remain flexible in their approaches to meet evolving needs.

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9. Key Takeaways

• Simplicity in Retrospectives: Utilizing straightforward formats can facilitate deeper dialogue and uncover underlying team issues.
• Building Trust: Beyond structured meetings, informal interactions are essential for fostering a trusting and open team environment.
• Modeling Vulnerability: Scrum Masters should lead by example by showing their own vulnerabilities to encourage team members to do the same.
• Team Autonomy: True success is achieved when the team can operate independently, maintaining Agile principles without constant guidance.
• Effective Conflict Management: Embracing and resolving conflicts is vital for team cohesion and maturity.
• Adaptability: Being responsive to feedback and willing to adjust both team practices and product roadmaps ensures continued relevance and effectiveness.

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Conclusion

Karen Suarez provides a nuanced perspective on Agile team maturity, emphasizing the importance of trust, vulnerability, autonomy, and adaptability. Her insights offer valuable guidance for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches striving to cultivate mature, high-performing teams capable of navigating the complexities of real-world projects.

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Notable Quotes:

• "I work on the team members' vulnerability. So the most painful topics are brought to light." – Karen Suarez [01:27]
• "Success is when we accept conflict, when not everything is in harmony and we deal with, with conflict." – Karen Suarez [10:36]

Transcript

[Host Name]

Have you ever wondered what it really takes to make Agile work well? At the Global Agile Summit, we're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action. Whether you're a leader, a product innovator, a developer, you'll hear practical insights from those who've done it. They'll be telling their own stories from the stage. I'll tell you more about this at the end of this episode. So stay back and listen to the full detailed description of what we have in store for you at the Global Agile Summit. But if you can't wait, you can go right now to globalagilesummit.com and check out our full schedule for now onto the episode. But I'll see you at the end of this episode with more details on the Global Agile Summit. Talk to you soon. Hello everybody. Welcome to our success Thursday. This week we have with us Karen Suarez. Hey Karen, welcome back.

[Karen Suarez]

Hi. Thank you for having me on Thursday.

[Host Name]

Absolutely. It's a pleasure to have you to discuss what might be potentially the most important question of the week. But before we dive into that, do share with us what's your favorite retrospective format and why?

[Karen Suarez]

I actually like to work with simple formats, something like start, stop, continue. I prefer to leave the room to dialogue. I work on the team members vulnerability. So the most painful topics are bring to light. But sometimes I like to mix it up with the holidays, thematics, postcard, Christmas tree, that kind of stuff. I think it's fun to do sometimes, but yep, kind of the simpler, the simpler formats.

[Host Name]

When you think about opening more space for the dialogue, which is one of the things that you said, that's an important approach and perspective. What are the tricks, the approaches that you use to try to tackle that aspect of vulnerability that you mentioned? Right. Because if we just open the space, but people don't feel safe, they don't feel they can be vulnerable, they're not going to talk about what really needs to be talked about. So what have you learned about working with the team members? Vulnerability, as you said. So the ability to be open, honest, candid in discussing the difficult topics that need to be discussed.

[Karen Suarez]

What I realized is that I cannot do that only in the retrospective event. I needed to do outside that, take more time. So I spend time individually with people collective in a collective informal way also. And the thing that works the most for me, it's stepping in their shoes. Being myself will never. Vulnerable.

[Host Name]

Vulnerable. Yeah, vulnerable.

[Karen Suarez]

So yeah. So once they see I'm open to do that that I struggle with stuff also and that I need their help in order to get better. They start opening themselves. I also look for people that are more open than others and start working with them.

[Host Name]

So.

[Karen Suarez]

So once they see, okay, there's Karen open herself opening her heart. There is the lead developer. There is my teammates here which I'm friend with who is opening also. Maybe I'm gonna try it. So that's how I do it. I spend time with them, I try to talk about anything. I don't necessarily become a friend but I show them I can be open and show my flows and that's good because it allows me allow us to improve and it stops the rumors maybe some that the non non say things and it's not as scary as we thought. We are the hardest just judge of ourselves.

[Host Name]

So that means that we need to be able to kind of overcome the fear of judgment. Right. Like if we say something and feel that we are going to be judged for it, then we are probably going to avoid saying that something. Right. Like avoid discussing that topic. And the problem with that is that the topic eventually grows and it becomes a much bigger problem than it needed in the first place. And one of the examples that you shared is that you are vulnerable yourself that you showed you model that behavior and you gave the example of asking for help. This is a great example of modeling that behavior. What are other concrete things that you do to model that behavior of being vulnerable? To show your team members that yeah, you can talk about difficult things as well.

[Karen Suarez]

I basically use myself the single tool I know right now. I know how to do it and it's been working. I choose the topics that really hurt for me. I'm not always ready but I try to do it anyway so they can do it also. And then I show them the feeling I was having before saying it and how they helped me. So it's not all not only saying I need your help on this but later saying, you remember when I told you this so you help me this way, this way, this way. And actually it wasn't that big as I thought. And right now I feel better the results of opening this way so really.

[Host Name]

Sharing the story with them. Right. Like not just asking for help but then sharing, okay, I was afraid to ask for help because. But in fact when I asked for help, I got these benefits. Yes.

[Karen Suarez]

The situation I was before.

[Host Name]

Yeah. And that's a really powerful way to to model that behavior. Karen, Thursday is of course also success Thursday. So share with us when it comes to being a Successful Scrum Master. How do you reflect on it? What are the questions you ask? What does that mean for you?

[Karen Suarez]

What is mean to me basically, and most important is the autonomy of the team. I'm here to teach some stuff, to mentor on some topics, to mentor people, to coach sometimes. But at some point I'm gonna leave the team, work on themselves, and I'm gonna work on something else. Maybe I will be forever with the team because there's a bunch of stuff to do in the organization, but the first thing is what I am capable to do. The team is also capable to do once they master or they are autonomous enough to do what I learned, what I brought to the team, I believe that as a success. So working on team cohesion, team trust, building trust between the team and the rest of the organization, the trust between team members. When I hear people discussing hard topics. It happened to me at some point when we had a team in a department with no manager. We had a team member who wasn't really a team player. He was really evading all of the work this technical skills were in on point. So the team tried to mentor him to do yet to work together to teach him some skills to start with, simple stuff. And at some point we realized this person was hurting. The team was creating great harm. And I told myself this person became an impediment for the team. We always talk about impediments, but sometimes it's tools, sometimes it's process. In this case, it was a person. So it became hard to say, we try everything, we try what we can today, and it's not working. We need to take this person out of the team. And when I was able to bring the team to talk about this situation with the person involved, I realized, okay, they are now ready to. I'm ready to leave, to take some distance from the team because now they're able to work on these difficult topics such as people.

[Host Name]

So that's about understanding. If the team is able to not only recognize that's an important part, but also actually take action without us triggering that action. Right? Like in this case, discussing, hey, this is not working. We need to figure out, because this person isn't helping anymore, like, what are the next steps? What could we do? Right?

[Karen Suarez]

Yes. Just to raise the flag at the beginning, of course they were really scared because for a few years they were just ignoring the conflict. But I triggered the needed to do something. But they were able to take the facts and bring into the person in an assertive way, not, not bringing the fault on the person but showing the problems these situations, these situations were having for the team and for the.

[Host Name]

Yeah, it just wasn't a fit, right?

[Karen Suarez]

Yes, yes, it was not the fit. And really this person was using the team just to earn his salary. Salary and staying at home, not really working. So it was really a problem of trust, some other thing. But. So this brought me to say success is when we accept conflict, when not everything is in harmony and we deal with, with conflict. We are having product feedback, the product is really changing on every iteration, that kind of stuff because we maybe sometimes create iterations or sprints, if you want to say like that. And the product roadmap is staying, is not changing and the basis of Agile is adapting. So if we are not adapting the product, there is no need to adapt because it's something straightforward. Why are we wasting time on this effort? So yes, seeing the product and the roadmap, having a roadmap that is based on outcomes, not outputs, that kind of stuff is where I say, okay, I changed that. I have an impact on the team being successful, on the product being successful. When solutions are coming now from the team and are always expecting there's a problem here, we need a solution. When we see cost impediment removal, that's what I consider also a success when we cause it and when we don't always solve it. When we are putting the backlog. Yes. When we are using, as I said before on Monday, the backlog, we are using it as a communication tool. We are expressing user needs, technical needs, strategic company needs and solutions are being left for the team to decide later to decide even during the building when this process of adapting becomes easier.

[Host Name]

Yeah. Well, I really like the aspect of the adaptability in its different levels. Right. Like at the team level, like conflict would be one example, but there are many others, like changing tools or changing some practice based on feedback from either other teams or themselves. Then also the adaptability on the product. We're getting feedback from the market, from the customers. Is the product being adapted? If not, then there's a problem. Right. Because Agile is all about adapting to that feedback that is coming in. I really like that aspect of adaptability and how we need to reflect on it as grandmaster. So yeah, that was awesome. Thank you for sharing that, Karen.

[Karen Suarez]

Thank you.

[Host Name]

Hey friend, thank you for staying. Here is all you need to know about the Global Agile Summit. If you've ever suffered or know people who are suffering from agile fatigue, this event is for you. Agile fatigue is that feeling that settles in when we can't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. We get discouraged. Especially when conversations revolve around the same old frameworks, the same old buzzwords and theories. We don't feel that energy anymore. Well, the Global Agile Summit is a different kind of event. We're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action and and transform the way you work. The Global Agile Summit will happen in Tallinn, Estonia May 18th. That's the workshop day. And then 19th and 20th, the conference day. And Tallinn, Estonia is one of the most innovative tech hubs in Europe. The Global Agile Summit is hosted together with Latitude 59, which is kind of a citywide celebration software startups and groundbreaking ideas. And we'll have a share ticket for you to attend those events as well. So who will be speaking? Well, we've got an incredible lineup of thought leaders in software and agile. For example, Clinton Keith, the person who wrote, literally wrote the book on game development with Scrum and is busy bringing Agile to the world of game development. He must check his session. The very famous and well known Jurgen Apello, author of Management 3.0, will be talking and exploring about AI's impact on leadership. We also have Goiko Adsic, who's taking an unconventional look at product growth with his Lizard Optimization keynote. Other speakers include, for example Sit Sven Dietz, who's challenging everything we know about software development by ditching, literally ditching contracts and estimates. Can you imagine his teams deliver software before their competitors are even done with the contract negotiation? How agile is that? But there's more. We'll cover engineering practices in our developer track with talks on for example AI assisted test driven development, developing products in minutes with a different approach to how we develop, configure, deploy platforms, and much more. We also have a product track where we cover cutting edge ideas around product discovery, delighting customers with product delight frameworks. We'll have a talk about that. And we also have an Agile business track where we will talk about, for example open strategy, a very agile approach to managing organizations and delivering software faster to clients faster than you can even write a contract. Literally. I mean, I already told you about Svendeet's story is amazing. It definitely is a must see. I'm sure you'll be inspired and get a lot of ideas for your own own software projects and software delivery. Now, whether you're a business leader, a product innovator or a developer, you'll definitely find value in our three focused tracks. That's Agile Business for those working with businesses and organizations. Agile Product for product managers, product owners and innovators and Agile developer for for the builders making Agile work in practice. The coders, the testers, the designers, the producers, the Scrum masters, you name it. If you join, you will meet over 200 agile professionals from all over the world. People who, just like you, want to grow, want to share, and want to learn. By challenging the ideas that don't work anymore at the Global Agile Summit, you'll get new connections, fresh ideas, and the energy to take your own Agile to the next level. And who knows, maybe even find your next career opportunity. So don't miss out. Check out the full program and grab your ticket [e-mail] I'm really looking forward to seeing you all in Tallinn, Estonia in May. I'll see you there.