B (4:03)

Yeah, it is different. The first bit is there is that fear about AI, and the second one is, okay, so what do we do about it? What can we do about it? What is within our control? So would you want to address the first bit?

A (4:22)

Yeah, whichever you decide to go with first.

B (4:27)

I think the fear is there and it's for more than our role. It's great, greater, but it's also in terms of how we interpret it, how we see it in a world where we're living in fast growing AI. So we need to make sure that we are evolving around it as well. And Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches need to be evolving with the environment that we are in. Because if you look at it currently, a lot of the roles that we have, even roles which are on the market, it's always something which is a mixture of Scrum Master or ba or they. It's not really a role that they think is a priority, it's a catalyst role. Yes, but it's always something that if we have to revisit the structure of an organization, that might be some of those, that might be one of the roles that they would.

A (5:29)

So are you saying, in other words, that the way Scrum Master role is set up today is problematic even without AI?

B (5:40)

It depends how the team sees it as well. And with AI, it just makes things even more difficult because people might have the impression that with AI, AI can generate Sprint reports, could analyze team metrics, and so why do we need Scrum Masters or Agile Coaches for that? So what I feel that what's missing here is that the human touch that Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches can bring, an example is the value that we can bring is reading the room and sensing unspoken tension, building trust for presence as well, and also asking questions that might help to Shift perspectives. So these are things that we need to further build upon and then see what else can we do to further show our value rather than, yeah, AI is here, so what do we do now?

A (6:41)

And being anxious about it, I totally see that. Let's call it the challenge of demonstrating value, right? Like, that's a very important aspect. Because it's not enough that we believe that we bring value, others need to believe too, right? Starting with a team, that's the most obvious, but then also continuing with the rest of the organization. And in fact, one of the topics that you addressed was when there is a reorganization, right? Like whether through redundancies or shift in priorities or whatever, then it's very easy to drop the role of the Scrum Master. And I think that this points to a different, different problem than AI. Of course it's affected by AI, but in my mind, it points to the idea that the way the Scrum Master role is set up does not actually bring value. It may bring structure, which may have value, but the moment the structure changes, then the need for the structure that the Scrum Master brings is also changing, maybe higher or lower. And if it's lower, that's an easy answer, right? Like, I've worked with ctos that basically said I don't need anyone to call meetings for my teams. They should be able to call meetings for themselves. And when you hear that, you can't disagree. Like, that's an obvious yes, of course. But if the Scrum Master is set up as calling meetings for the team, then the work that they bring, which is valuable, may also be seen as not valuable enough. Right. So what I'm thinking is, have we accidentally in our community defined a role about the process and the structure, rather than the impact on the team? Because I don't think that the Scrum Master role was originally created or thought of as a structure role. I think it was more of a catalyst role. How do you see that?

B (8:45)

Yeah, I think it's definitely a catalyst role, which is often misunderstood. And like you said, like, sometimes other people might be seeing, like just setting up meetings and all that, but it's up to the Scrum Master to prove that you know, what the. What are the value that you're creating. And they can make the use of metrics for that they could show before they joined the team, how was the team happiness, and just kind of see how they are going to measure it over time, how it has changed the moral, the energy in the team as well, and also in terms of the flow of the work. Itself has it improved using different metrics like the cycle time, the lead time as well. So there are different ways that we, we can still show the value that we are bringing and also how we have helped people to grow in their roles as well. So shifted some. If there were some developers who wasn't sure how to integrate in the team. So now they are very much comfortable in how they are in the team and they're working well and they are very confident in presenting the work which was different before. So if we can show and use the element of storytelling as well to give some use cases of how we have common teams and really help around, that would be something that a history that we are creating rather than being concerned about.

A (10:30)

AI, I like what you said. I like that aspect of creating history, showing the before and after. And I would add to that the idea that it is our job to communicate that all the time. It's not the team's job to say, hey, you're a great Scrum Master. It's our job to show, here's what I'm doing for you, here's what I'm doing for your team. Dear manager or leader that we interact with. And I think that this is an important aspect. We are a little bit like a diplomat. And in that, I mean we are not the president, we are diplomats, we are, we work through influence. Right. So we need to have allies in the team and outside the team and we need to give them the information they need to continue to support the work that we're doing. And if we don't have that, if we don't have the ability to show the value, then of course the natural consequence is that the role would disappear. And it has in many organizations indeed disappeared. So I think that those two aspects, everything that you said, plus we need to recognize that the value that we bring needs to be seen by others. It cannot be just existing, it needs to be seen and recognized by others.

B (11:44)

Yeah. And also use those people as champions. Like what I've done in the past is if I'm setting up a new team, I would bring someone from my previous team who I've worked with and to share their experience and to share what were some of the things, how they felt when we were changing the ways of working, how we work together and how we preferred to meet the team where they are, understand their current circumstance rather than just coming in and making changes. Because sometimes this is the fear of teams as well, that Scrum Masters and agile coaches are just coming in and they're going to change everything. So I think it's really using those people who are our allies and really using their feedback to really elevate the work that we are doing.

A (12:36)

That's a great addition. Thank you for sharing that. Mohini.

B (12:40)

Welcome.

A (12:45)

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