Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches

Episode: BONUS Challenging the Agile Status Quo with #NoBacklogs | Allan Kelly

Release Date: March 15, 2025
Host: Vasco Duarte, Agile Coach, Certified Scrum Master, Certified Product Owner
Guest: Alan Kelly, Author and Agile Practitioner

Introduction

In this special bonus episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Alan Kelly, an influential Agile practitioner and author renowned for challenging conventional Agile practices. The episode delves into the limitations of traditional product backlogs and explores innovative alternatives that foster greater agility and impact within software development teams.

The Problem with Traditional Backlogs

Alan Kelly begins by addressing the inherent issues with traditional product backlogs in modern software organizations. He acknowledges that while backlogs have their place—differentiating between Scrum’s Sprint Backlog and Product Backlog—they often become cumbersome when overextended.

Alan Kelly [03:18]: "These backlogs, you know, they're not just tens of items, they're not even hundreds of items. In the extreme, they run to a thousand or more items."

Kelly criticizes tools like Jira for allowing backlogs to grow indefinitely, turning them into "dumping grounds of good intentions" filled with duplicates and irrelevant items. This excessive accumulation leads to management overhead and diminishes the backlog's original purpose of providing structure and flexibility.

Alan Kelly [05:08]: "Backlogs are like children's comfort blankets, cuddly toys. They were there to help us make the transition, but the same as your kids. My kids, they give up those comfort objects when they get more confident..."

Real-Life Examples Illustrating the Issues

To illustrate the detrimental impact of bloated backlogs, Kelly shares real-world scenarios. He recounts working with an airline whose backlog contained approximately a thousand items. Despite completing 100 points of work per sprint, the backlog inflow rate was 8%, rendering the team perpetually "underwater" and incapable of addressing the backlog effectively.

Alan Kelly [06:10]: "You have these backlogs where you are never going to pay the mortgage off."

Vasco adds another layer by sharing a story of a team with a 5,000-item backlog, processing only 10 items per two-week sprint while adding 300 new items each sprint. This scenario underscores the unsustainable nature of oversized backlogs.

Vasco [05:41]: "They have two week sprints, but every sprint they also get 300 new items. So they are minus 290 items after every sprint."

Alternatives to Using Backlogs

Transitioning from critique to solutions, Kelly advocates for moving away from micro-level backlog items towards a focus on larger outcomes and goals. He emphasizes the importance of hierarchical, nested outcomes that guide teams toward meaningful progress.

Alan Kelly [09:07]: "You want to look big, you want to think about the outcome. What is it you're actually trying to bring about?"

Kelly introduces the concept of Test First Management, akin to OKRs (Objectives and Key Results), where objectives define the desired outcomes and key results serve as measurable success criteria. This approach shifts the focus from completing numerous small tasks to achieving significant, impactful goals.

Alan Kelly [10:00]: "OKRs are test first management. Tell me what you're going to do, the objective, the outcome. And then the key results are your success criteria, they are your tests."

Vasco complements this by advocating for starting with a clear vision and utilizing tools like impact maps and story maps to align the team's efforts towards strategic business outcomes.

Vasco [11:10]: "A product must have a vision. If it's not a product, it's a service. Service must have a vision... You use impact mapping for that and then you use a story map to hold the big picture of the product together."

Focusing on Outcomes and Goals

The discussion advances to the practical implementation of goal-oriented work. Kelly explains how teams can operate by setting clear sprint goals derived from broader objectives, fostering collaboration and shared responsibility.

Alan Kelly [16:56]: "We have our goals, our objectives, the outcomes we are trying to bring about and we go into a planning meeting and we review where we are..."

Vasco echoes the importance of delegation and empowerment, highlighting that clear goals enable teams to make informed decisions and adapt strategies without being constrained by an ever-growing backlog.

Vasco [21:36]: "It pushes us back to this idea from project management, which is that the work is already defined... But we need to look for alternatives and as pragmatic innovators, we should ask ourselves..."

Measuring Progress Without Backlogs

Addressing concerns about accountability and progress tracking without backlogs, both hosts advocate for evaluating the delivery of working software and progress towards defined goals. Kelly asserts that the primary measure should be:

Alan Kelly [25:35]: "The primary measure of progress is working software... Are the team able to demo something? Is it just me to demo is an accomplishment in its own right..."

Vasco reinforces this by emphasizing the significance of measuring impact over the sheer number of completed stories, thereby avoiding the pitfalls of metric inflation and promoting genuine progress.

Vasco [29:07]: "The backlog might have the right work to do in it, quote unquote, the fact is that it doesn't really matter what work we do. What matters is the impact that that work has."

Benefits of Alternative Approaches

Shifting focus to the advantages of abandoning traditional backlogs, Kelly highlights increased team engagement, creativity, and ownership. By involving team members in goal-setting and decision-making, organizations can harness collective problem-solving abilities and foster a more committed workforce.

Alan Kelly [29:40]: "When people are involved in making these decisions... they're more engaged. If they're more engaged, they're more committed. If they're more committed, they work harder and they do stuff and you can make more progress by engaging people."

Vasco underscores the alignment of this approach with Agile principles, promoting adaptability and empowering teams to prioritize based on impact rather than predefined tasks.

Vasco [29:40]: "By measuring progress towards an impact, we are allowing that structure and visibility and transparency while also promoting adaptability in decision making at the team level."

Recommendations and Resources

As the conversation wraps up, Kelly recommends resources for those interested in exploring no-backlog methodologies. He points listeners to his YouTube channel and website for in-depth discussions and presentations on the topic.

Alan Kelly [30:49]: "Wander over to YouTube and or go via my website AlanKelly.net but go to YouTube and find 'Honey, I Shrunk the Backlog'..."

Vasco encourages the audience to follow Alan on LinkedIn for ongoing insights and updates, ensuring listeners have access to further learning materials.

Vasco [31:28]: "Just Alan Kelly, you'll guess which one I am on LinkedIn and just connect to me there or follow me there."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a promotion for the upcoming Global Agile Summit in Tallinn, Estonia, detailing the event's focus areas and the caliber of speakers attendees can expect. Vasco reiterates the value of real-life Agile success stories and encourages listeners to participate to enhance their Agile practices.

Vasco [32:25]: "Speaking about the Global Agile Summit... So I'll see you all there."

Alan Kelly's insights on eliminating traditional backlogs and adopting outcome-driven approaches present a compelling case for modernizing Agile practices. By focusing on goals and measurable impacts, teams can achieve greater flexibility, engagement, and effectiveness in their software development endeavors.

Key Takeaways

• Backlog Overload: Traditional product backlogs often become unmanageable, hindering Agile practices.
• Outcome-Oriented Approach: Shifting focus from micro-tasks to broader goals enhances team agility and impact.
• Test First Management: Utilizing objectives and key results (OKRs) helps measure progress effectively without relying on backlogs.
• Measuring Progress: Prioritizing working software and goal achievement over story counts fosters genuine advancement.
• Enhanced Team Engagement: Empowering teams to set and pursue meaningful goals increases commitment and productivity.

Recommended Resources

• Alan Kelly’s YouTube Channel: Search for "Honey, I Shrunk the Backlog" on YouTube for detailed presentations.
• Alan Kelly’s Website: Visit AlanKelly.net for more resources and contact information.
• Global Agile Summit: Learn more and register at globalagilesummit.com.

About the Hosts and Guests

Vasco Duarte is a seasoned Agile Coach, Certified Scrum Master, and Certified Product Owner who hosts the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast. He is dedicated to providing actionable advice and inspiring conversations for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches worldwide.

Alan Kelly is an author and Agile practitioner known for his innovative ideas on Agile methodologies, including the concept of #NoBacklogs. He has authored several books and regularly shares his expertise through conferences and online platforms.

This summary encapsulates the main discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the podcast.