← Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches
Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches
BONUS: Marshall Goldsmith on Leadership, AI, and Coaching for the Future
00:41:38
BONUS: Marshall Goldsmith on Leadership, AI, and Coaching for the Future In this BONUS episode, Dr. Marshall Goldsmith, the world-renowned leadership coach and bestselling author, shares transformative insights into leadership, coaching, and how AI...
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- [00:01]
Vasco Duart
Hi, I'm your host, Vasco Duart. Welcome to the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast where we share tips and tricks from Scrum Masters around the world. Every day we bring you inspiring answers to important questions that all Scrum Masters face day after day. Welcome, Agile friends. My name is Vasco and we have for you today a star among the topic of leadership, Marshall Goldsmith in Daily. In this session, we're going to talk about leadership and AI in leadership specifically. Welcome, Marshall.
- [00:39]
Marshall Goldsmith
So happy to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
- [00:42]
Vasco Duart
Well, it's an absolute pleasure to have you here. Both, of course, because of everything you've done. I mean, you've been a bestselling author several times in the New York Times list and sold over 3 million books. That's amazing. One could even say you're like the Taylor Swift of AI writing.
- [01:05]
Marshall Goldsmith
Now, that is a little bit of a stretch. As we discussed earlier, Taylor Swift does own the house across from me, so I am sort of her neighbor. She has 15 homes though, so I'm hardly her only neighbor.
- [01:20]
Vasco Duart
I'm sure she has many and of course been ranked twice as Thinkers 50, number one leadership thinker in the world and also a number one executive coach who's coached people leaders all over the world and been to more than 100 countries. Marshall started a project recently that takes advantage of AI to help leaders succeed, and we will be learning about that in this talk. So we'll talk with Marshall in a second. Let me just tell you that the Agile Online Summit has many more talks and you can check them all out@agileonlinesummit.com so make sure you check that out. But now let's get back to our guest and the topic of leadership. Now, Marshall, you have a long story in the field of leadership and leadership coaching, but what was that pivotal moment in your life that got you started thinking about and wanting to coach leaders all over the world?
- [02:21]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, there are two things that happen, and number one, I've been phenomenally lucky. I think anyone who's successful says they're not lucky, is just arrogant. So I've been very, very lucky. When I was very young, I was just finished my PhD at UCLA, I met a very famous man named Dr. Paul Hersey. And he and Ken Blanchard invented something called situational leadership. So I was able to, I told Paul, I want to be like these guys when I grow up, like Paul, like Ken Blanchard. And I said, look, I'll sit in the back of the room and follow, follow. I'll follow you around, sit in the back of the room, serve coffee, do anything, just to learn. Well, that was smart. So one day he got double booked and Ken couldn't do it either. And he said, can you do what I do? I said, I don't know. He said, I'll pay a thousand dollars for a day. I was making $15,000 a year. I was brought up very poor and I was a 28 year old kid. I mean, $1,000 a day to a 28 year old kid 47 years ago, that was a lot of money. I said, yes, sir. So I do a program for the Metropolitan Life Insurance Company in New York. They're incredibly angry when I show up because I'm not him. But I got ranked first place of all the speakers because I'm funny, having a good time. The other speakers are boring. They say, oh, send this guy again. He's good, he's good. Send him again. So he called me up, said, you want to do this again? Yeah, I'll do this again. So that's how I got into leadership development and in coaching. I was working with a CEO of a company called Warner Lambert, big drug company at the time. And he said, I had this young guy working for us, young, smart, dedicated, jerk. It'd be worth a fortune to me if you could change that kid's behavior. I said, I like fortunes, maybe I could help him. He said, I doubt it. I came up with an idea. I still work with a kid for a year, he gets better. Pay me if he doesn't get better is free. You know what he said? Sold. There was nothing called coaching. I just made this up. He got better, I got paid, and for 45 years I didn't get paid if my clients didn't get better. My whole coaching was done. Pay only after the results.
- [04:20]
Vasco Duart
Yeah, absolutely. And that's a great way to make sure that we hold ourselves accountable as well. Right. It's not just, oh, do the work. No, like we need to, we need to make it happen.
- [04:32]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, you can always tell. You can always tell someone believes what they're saying. Ask them one question, do you want to bet on it? You want to bet on it? And they say they believe it, but they don't bet on it. They don't believe it so much. They say, here's the money, they believe it.
- [04:46]
Vasco Duart
So through all of those experiences, what do you think is the most counterintuitive aspect of leadership that many struggle to grasp and incorporate in their work?
- [04:56]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, I'm going to answer that from two dimensions. First, a dimension for, as a coach What I've learned. And then second, what I teach in terms of leaders, what I've learned. Both important and they're both related. First, what have I learned as a coach? The number one variable for successful coaching is not the coach. It is the person being coached. So there's a great leader named Alan Mullally. Alan, probably the greatest corporate leader in the world. In the last 30 years, he was at Ford, the stock was at $1.01. He left, it was $18.40. Stock goes up 1,837% while he was a CEO and he had a 97% approval rating from every employee in a union company. This is unheard of. People love this guy. So, you know, he's a great friend of mine. So go to my friend Alan. I said, alan, look, of all the people I coach, I spent the least amount of time coaching you, and you improved the most. And then I said, you know, Alan, I made a chart on one dimension is called time spent with me, and the other range called improvement. I said, there's a negative correlation between spending time with me and getting better here. I said, what should I learn about coaching from you? He said, he changed my life. He said, look, Marshall, you need to learn one thing as a coach. Your whole job is work with great people. You work with great people. Your coaching process is always going to work. You work with the wrong people, it is never going to work. Don't make coaching about yourself, your own ego and how smart you think you are. Make it how great they are. Look, I got ranked number one coach in the world for years. Nobody knows I'm a good coach. Somebody watches me coach people. I can say one thing. I may or may not be that good of a coach. I have the number one customers in the world.
- [06:37]
Vasco Duart
That's absolutely. That is a great perspective. Right. And it also teaches us humbly that we are only helping somebody achieve what their potential already is.
- [06:48]
Marshall Goldsmith
Oh, yeah? Yeah. And don't make it about you. So that was the first great lesson I learned. He said, leadership. The same thing, you know, he said, for the great achiever, it may be all about me, but for the great leader, it's about them. Don't make it about you and your own ego.
- [07:00]
Vasco Duart
And that is such a powerful lesson for our audience here. Like, that's what we do, right? Agile coaches, scrum masters, leaders in organizations, we are there to help others succeed. And that's. That insight that you just shared is incredibly powerful. But how about as a teacher of leadership? What was the most controversial Counterintuitive lesson you got there.
- [07:22]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, this is also counterintuitive because I was interviewing in the Harvard Business for you and asked, what's the number one problem of all those mega successful people you've coached over the years? My answer, Winning too much. Winning too much. What's that mean? If it's important, we want to win. If it's meaningful, we want to win. If it's critical, we want to win. If it's trivial, we want to win. If it's not worth it, we want to win anyway. Winners love winning. Everyone I coach is a winner. It's hard for winners not to win. Now, I'm going to give you a case study about this on a much more personal level that you personally probably have failed. Are you ready? You want to go to dinner at Restaurant X. Your partner, wife, friend, wants to go to Y. You have an argument, you go to Y and it's not your choice. And the food tastes awful and service is terrible. Option A, you could critique the food, point out our partner was wrong. This mistake could have been avoided if you just listened to me. Me, me, me, me. Option B, shut up. Eat the dumb food, try to enjoy it, and have a nice night. Now, what would I do? What should I do? Well, in almost all cases, what would I do? Critique the food. What should I do? Shut up. Another case study. You have a hard day at work. You come home, your partner says, I had such a hard day today. I had such a tough day. If we're not careful what we say, you had a hard day. You had a hard day. Do you have any idea what I had to put up with today? You see, we're so competitive. We have to prove we're more miserable than the people we live with. I gave this example to my class at the Dartmouth Tuck School of Business. Young guy raised his hand, he said, I did that last week. I said, what happened? He said, my wife looked at me, she said, honey, you just think you've had a hard day. It is not over.
- [09:15]
Vasco Duart
Yeah, absolutely. That kind of conversation usually goes that way.
- [09:22]
Marshall Goldsmith
So winning too much, very counterintuitive. Because you know, as a leader, you got to learn. Quit winning all the time. It's not about you being the smartest. It's not about you winning. It's not about you proving you're right. You want them to be the winners. You already won. You don't need to win again.
- [09:40]
Vasco Duart
So this makes it very interesting for me to ask the next question. Now, you've coached many winners, great people that You've worked with ministers, CEOs, you name it. So I'm eager to learn. How do you bring those two counterintuitive insights to your own coaching process with the people you coach?
- [10:03]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, you know, let me see, what are the. I'm going to ask my friend to get better. Well, you know, when leaders get better, it's really three things they need and you've already hit upon the first one. You know, leaders get better. Let's see here.
- [10:25]
AI Bot
The leaders who get better typically exhibit three key qualities. Courage, humility and discipline. One, Courage. It takes courage to receive honest feedback and to look in the mirror, acknowledging one's own shortcomings and areas for improvement. Leaders who get better are willing to face the sometimes uncomfortable truths about their behavior and its impact on others. 2. Humility. Effective leaders possess the humility to admit that they can improve. They understand that they are not perfect and are open to learning and growing. This humility allows them to be receptive to feedback and to genuinely engage in the process of self improvement. 3. Discipline. Lastly, discipline is crucial for leaders who get better. They commit to the day to day hard work required to enact positive, lasting changes in their behavior. This means consistently applying new behaviors, reflecting on their effectiveness and making adjustments as needed. These qualities enable leaders to engage in a process of continuous improvement, benefiting not only themselves, but also their organizations and teams. The leaders who get better typically.
- [11:36]
Vasco Duart
Wow. So that's MarshallGoldsmith AI, correct?
- [11:40]
Marshall Goldsmith
Yes, that was obviously. That was computer generated version of me speaking.
- [11:48]
Vasco Duart
Yeah, I have to say that your human version is a lot more fun to talk to though.
- [11:54]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, that is, you know, that's one thing that's, you know, that I am working on that is trying to give my AI bot a little bit of a sense of humor. And a computer is a computer. I mean it's not a human. It's not going to be, you know, in my lifetime it's probably not going to get that funny. And the same thing my client said, from a content point of view, it's better than I am.
- [12:20]
Vasco Duart
Oh wow. They just, it just needs to inspire more than you do.
- [12:26]
Marshall Goldsmith
Oh yeah, no, from a content point of view it's better than me, but you know, I'm trying to teach it a little bit of humor. So, so it's, you know, it's you know, at least a little bit of, a little bit of humor. So it's a little bit more of a personal and not just so kind of robotic. Okay, are you ready? I asked my computer bot, let's see now this one, like I asked it, how many languages do you speak? It says, I can barely speak the American version of English.
- [13:03]
Vasco Duart
That's good. That's really good.
- [13:05]
Marshall Goldsmith
Yeah. So I'm trying to give it a little bit of a funny sense of humor or something, you know, other than just robotically answering questions. But from a content point of view, this thing is amazing.
- [13:19]
Vasco Duart
I mean, it has, it has, I think at least the work that I've done with our own AI here in the company, it has the ability to access knowledge in context much faster than any search engine could do. Right. So it kind of brings the right topics immediately to the fore. Is that how you experience it?
- [13:40]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, I think you said it well. It's very good at information and knowledge sharing. It's not intended to be a coach. It really doesn't ask you questions. It's good at sharing knowledge and information, but it's not good. It's fantastic at that. Now, on my own bot, I've put in this thing hundreds of hours. I have personally fed this thing 3 million words. And it has an edit function. So I actually edit it. And over and over and over again it gets feedback. I edit it over and over and over again. And so, and it's had, so far, I think over 75,000 questions have been asked to it. So it's, you know, it's getting, it's just getting warmed up, but it's getting lots of practice, which is a great thing. And just a couple of reflections. One is that it is for information sharing, but what it does is mind blowing. See, my daughter Kelly, My daughter Kelly has a PhD from Yale. She's a professor at Vanderbilt. She's very bright. She wanted to trick my computer butt. So she said, how is your coaching related to utilitarian philosophy? Now that's a pretty deep question. I don't even know what utilitarian philosophy is. It studies utilitarian philosophy. It studies my coaching. It figures out how my coaching is related to utilitarian philosophy, and it answers it in my voice in five seconds in a way that I would answer it. Wow, with almost perfect accuracy.
- [15:14]
Vasco Duart
I think that one of the things that we have to struggle as humans is that our intelligence is never going to be a match for infinite storage and retrieval, which is what this, these things do. And we need to figure out, hey, wait a minute, but then what can I do, right? Like, what do I bring to the, to the table? So what triggered you to think about AI as a support for leaders? Right? And what is it that you're trying to highlight in them with the help.
- [15:43]
Marshall Goldsmith
Of AI well, you have to realize I'm a little unusual. I want to give everything away anyway, so. By the way, my computer bot is free. You go to marshallgoldsmith AI My Marshall has two L's. Marshallgoldsmith AI it's free. All you have to do is sign up. It's free. There's no cost and there's no trick. Normally when things are free, there's a trick. You know, yo, this is free. But you spend money, you get that this. No, there's no trick. It's just free. And so my goal is to. I'm 75. I want to help as many people as I can in the limited time I have left here on Earth to do it. And then maybe after I'm not here anymore. Legacy. Now, what's the definition of a legacy? Is being here when you're not here. Well, you can't get much better than this. No, it's here when I'm not here. And so for me, this is a legacy project. Just give back all I know to as many people as I can.
- [16:38]
Vasco Duart
Yeah, that's very commendable. Of course, thank you for doing that. And of course everybody check it out at MarshallGoldsmith AI we'll put the link of course in the description below so that you can go and easily check it. But coming back to this topic because of course you're giving all of this away for free to help, as you just said, but you probably have an assumption or an hypothesis about how this can be used by leaders to amplify what you think is maybe already in the good leaders and can be made better by tools like this. So how do you see AI helping leaders in the future?
- [17:14]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, I use this in my own coaching. Let me give you a couple of real life examples and I can mention the names of my clients. One of my volunteer clients was Dr. Patrick Freus. He's head of the Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego. They're merging with another children's hospital. They're going to have one of the biggest children's hospitals in the world. He's going to be for a while a co CEO. So he asked me, what's it like to be a co CEO? What are the challenges, opportunities? You know, KKR has co CEOs but not many companies do. And I've had some experience with CO CEOs, but maybe two or three, but it's hard to generalize. So I said let me ask marshallbot. Marshall Bot gives this brilliant answer. Then he said, well, one of the factors that Marshall Bot talked about is boundaries. Can you go more into detail about boundaries? Boom, it does that. So you know, it is mind blowing. So in terms of I use this as a coach, I'm not competing with this. As you said, when it comes to knowledge and information, look, you want to compete with this thing, you're going to lose. I got ranked number one leadership thinker in the world and number one coach in the world for years. I'm not this smart. All right? Now if you think you're smarter than this, you're way smarter than me, then this is way smarter than I am. Yeah. As you say, you can't compete. And it's sharing knowledge and information. That's what it's good for. It doesn't solve everybody's problems. It doesn't do life coaching. But for sharing information, it's unbelievable.
- [18:47]
Vasco Duart
So one of the things that we've played with, so we have our own coach, which is of course for scrum masters and agile coaches, also based on AI, based on the work that we have done over the years. And one of the things that we try to do is to create this sense of interaction, right? Because obviously when we are coaching people who coach others, we want to give them the superpower of constant reflection and awareness, Right? Because that's what they need to do when they are helping others. So we try to put in this perspective of asking reflective questions, mirroring, so kind of modeling the coaching behavior that we know is good coaching behavior. What were the things that you were mindful and deliberate about bringing in to this Marshall coach, or Marshall Bot as you called it in? Marshall Goldsmith, AI well, actually, I'm not doing that.
- [19:40]
Marshall Goldsmith
And I think what you're doing is commendable. Yet I have to. There are only so many hours in a day and I can't do everything. This one is pretty much just information and knowledge sharing. It's not intended. I think what you're doing is commendable. This doesn't do that though. This is just knowledge and sharing information. And that's what I. I'm going to pretty much restrict it to that for me, you got to realize this is a lot of work and what you're talking about is a whole different type of work. And also I've got people who've donated the money on this thing. So this cost a fortune. A nice company called Fractal analytics had eight engineers working on this thing. So, you know, they've put a lot of time and energy and I have into this. So for now, this pretty much just. This is knowledge and information sharing. On the other hand, what you're saying is coming, the more interactive bot is coming, which is great. I don't think it's either or. You can do both at the same time. So the other thing I failed to mention is every computer bot is biased. Let me tell you what that means. Every computer bot, including mine and yours, is biased. Let me describe what I mean by bias. The obvious example is the Google Gemini computer bot that just blew up. I know you probably familiar with the story. It was embarrassing. It was terrible what happened. Right. Well, when I say bias, what do I mean? I don't just mean race biased or sex or all that stuff. What I mean is, let's ask this a question. What is leadership? There are a hundred different answers. When it gives you an answer, it's biased. Why that answer as opposed to the 99 others? Well, Marshall bot is biased by me. Now, I am not saying the answers on this are right in some absolute sense, nor am I saying they're the best answers. I'm not that arrogant.
- [21:38]
AI Bot
These are just my answers.
- [21:40]
Vasco Duart
Absolutely. And as you said also earlier on, you know, you just need to be careful to coach the winners already, because then they take what you produce and make it even better. So the same thing here, right? Like if, if somebody comes in and is not willing or able to reflect and bring their perspective, then they're just going to be repeating whatever they learn. I think that that's one of the key things for us as users of these tools is that we always need to bring our brain and our intention and our vision into the conversation with the bot.
- [22:14]
Marshall Goldsmith
Yes. And again, then you're better at what's called prompt engineering. Right. And you know, the key to all, as you know, the key to using all these things is prompt engineering. So for me, for me, I had to have four things happen to do this. One is I'm willing to give everything away. That's somewhat unusual. Two is ton of content. So I put a ton of content in this. Then. Three is I have a lot of followers just on LinkedIn. I have 1.5 million followers. So you can give everything away, you know, but does anyone care? You know, nobody cares. It doesn't matter. And then Forbes, I've had some very generous people to support me on this.
- [22:57]
Vasco Duart
Yeah, absolutely. It's always teamwork when it comes to things that have an influence in the world. So, Marshall, a little bit more of a personal question regarding this. MarshallGoldsmith AI, how did you Feel when you finally realized and like realized meaning that you felt it internally that the bot was smarter than you are.
- [23:18]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, it's interesting. My goal was kind of, this would answer any question about 80% of the time, as well as me and maybe 80% as many. That was my goal coming in. That's way, way beyond all that. So I guess I feel like for me, you know, evolution, it's okay that my little kid here is better than I am. Yeah.
- [23:43]
Vasco Duart
So it's like a better version of yourself when it comes to accessing knowled.
- [23:48]
Marshall Goldsmith
Exactly. I'm not that I'm not this good and it's. And I'm not competing with it. I mean, you know, and I think all your listeners as a human being, you got to face reality here. You can't get in as you, you said it very well. Information and knowledge retrieval. You can't compete with the computer.
- [24:09]
Vasco Duart
No. No way.
- [24:11]
Marshall Goldsmith
No.
- [24:12]
Vasco Duart
So when you think about the future of leadership, because obviously there's a lot of it that has to do with intuition and experience, which are human traits. But there's a lot that has to do also with access to knowledge and being able to correlate different aspects of knowledge. So how do you think AI can or will, in your mind, in your thinking, revolutionize the practice of leadership?
- [24:39]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, I think, and again, you have to realize I'm not an expert at all elements of AI. What you're doing I love. It's just different than what I'm doing. So from a knowledge sharing perspective, this is the future. This is the future. And so I think what you're going to see is people like me who are thought leaders developing AI products because as opposed to just read a book. I mean, look, reading a book is a good thing. I've sold 3 million books. I'm nothing against books. On the other hand, if you have a question, what are you supposed to do? Go through book after book and try to come up with answers. Just very time consuming and tedious. Whereas here, boom, you've got it. Now one other thing I teach and I think is really important for the future of leadership development is feed forward. You see, my whole coaching process is based on this concept of feed forward. I teach leaders, ask for input, listen, thank people. Don't judge and critique. Then think about it and do what you can do. Do what you can do. Buddha, I'm a Buddhist. Buddhists that only do what I teach for works for you. If it doesn't work for you, it's okay, don't do it. So I Made an existential choice with my computer bot. It typically gives pretty long answers as opposed to like an instant quick answer. Why? Well, let's say you ask a question and it has seven suggestions. Let's say only one of them works for you. It's okay. Ignore the other six. By the way, it's free and it takes about 10 seconds. So you're out 10 seconds and no money. Do what works for you.
- [26:24]
Vasco Duart
Absolutely. And one of the things that I have found in using these tools is that they are a great source of inspiration and brainstorming. Right? Because, for example, let's say that it presents you with seven options and you're not happy with maybe five of those, but you're interested in the other two and you can explore those two further. And I have been many, many a times surprised when I pick one topic and kind of go deeper. I have been many a time surprised with what it comes back with because of course it has access to infinite information. Right. And that's the key aspect here. We don't. So it's going to surprise us sooner or later. And we can use that surprise either as an insight or as an inspiration to try something else.
- [27:06]
Marshall Goldsmith
Oh, you know, what you're saying is very, very important because it goes on and on and on. And by the way, it doesn't just relate to trivial questions like I'm asking it right now, how's your coaching related to Buddhist philosophy? There you go. That is not a trivial question at all. And the answers are amazing. How's your coaching related? Now, I've read 400 books on Buddhism, so I know enough to know whether it's a good or bad answer. Right? And how is your coaching related to Buddhist philosophy? Well, it gives you this answer.
- [27:48]
AI Bot
My coaching is related to Buddhist philosophy in several ways. Mindfulness. I encourage clients to practice mindfulness, which involves being fully present and aware of their thoughts, feelings and actions. This helps them gain clarity and focus, which is essential for effective leadership. Compassion. I emphasize the importance of compassion in leadership. This means understanding the perspectives of others, showing empathy and being kind, which can lead to more harmonious and productive work environments. Impermanence. I help clients understand the concept of impermanence, which is the idea that all things change. This can be particularly useful when dealing with change management.
- [28:28]
Marshall Goldsmith
As it this goes on and on. It goes on and on and on. Now if I ask it another question.
- [28:36]
Vasco Duart
So I have a question for it, if you're okay with it.
- [28:39]
Marshall Goldsmith
But what's interesting is here's what's been a surprise for me I thought computer bots on the whole would be great at sharing facts and data, but weak in terms of deeper knowledge. I found the opposite to be true. I like to use the Claude computer bot for example a lot. The thing is unbelievable deep knowledge and sometimes misses details. So I find it's an interesting thing on some of the computer bots they can be better at like these questions after coaching related then you could ask it how's it related to impermanence? It will go into more detail about that. How is it related to this part of impermanence? It goes on and on. Mind blowing. But these are not trivial questions. This is not show me the five ways to delegate better.
- [29:35]
Vasco Duart
I totally agree with you and I have seen that also in my own experiments. Is it okay if we ask it a question from the perspective of Scrum Masters?
- [29:45]
Marshall Goldsmith
I would have no idea what you're talking about.
- [29:48]
Vasco Duart
Can we try? We can edit this later.
- [29:50]
Marshall Goldsmith
It doesn't know what. I don't think it knows what a Scrum Master even is.
- [29:53]
Vasco Duart
Well, you never know. Let's try. I'm curious. So the question is what are the three most important lessons that Scrum Masters can learn from Marshall's work?
- [30:09]
Marshall Goldsmith
Okay, it might. This is great because if it can't answer it, I'm going to show you what I'm going to do to train it in just a second. Okay, now it's thinking. I don't think it'll know how to answer this, but it might. Who knows.
- [30:22]
Vasco Duart
I'm sure it will answer something. Let's see what it does.
- [30:25]
Marshall Goldsmith
Are you ready? So much for my knowledge.
- [30:29]
AI Bot
As an executive leadership coach, I believe there are several lessons that Scrum Masters can learn from my work to enhance their effectiveness in leading agile teams. 1. Embrace FeedForward instead of Feedback While feedback is about the past, FeedForward focuses on the future and potential improvements. Scrum Masters can use this concept to encourage their teams to think about future possibilities and how they can improve their processes and interactions. By focusing on future oriented solutions rather than dwelling on past mistakes, Scrum Masters can foster a more positive and proactive team environment. 2. Don't let ego get in the way of progress in my book what got you here won't get you there, I discuss how successful people can have difficulty achieving further success because they believe their past behaviors will ensure future success. Scrum Masters should be aware of this trap and remain open to change and continuous improvement. They should facilitate a team culture where everyone, including themselves, is open to learning and adapting without letting ego hinder progress.
- [31:39]
Marshall Goldsmith
3.
- [31:39]
AI Bot
Lead by example and encourage ownership. Scrum Masters should model the behavior they want to see in their teams. By taking ownership of their actions and encouraging their team members to do the same, Scrum Masters can create a culture of accountability and empowerment. This means not only celebrating successes, but also owning up to mistakes and learning from them. When Scrum Masters lead by example, they inspire their teams to follow suit, which can lead to more effective and self organizing teams. These lessons are about fostering a forward looking, ego free and accountable team culture which are essential for the iterative and collaborative nature of scrum.
- [32:20]
Vasco Duart
Absolutely. Well said. Well said. Marshall. I didn't know you knew so much about scrum.
- [32:29]
Marshall Goldsmith
I had no idea it could answer.
- [32:31]
Vasco Duart
That question, but there you go. It could.
- [32:35]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, how was the answer?
- [32:36]
Vasco Duart
Okay, I think the answer was very. First of all, it was on point, really relevant. And I think that even though some of the topics are things that we've, we talk a lot in the podcast and in the conference, I think that the way that it relates to your work is also important because of course you bring your own philosophy to leadership and of course we would not read you if we wouldn't value your philosophy. And I think that aspect, of course, only MarshallGoldsmith AI can do. Right. Because if you go to ChatGPT or Claude or any other bot, you will get generic answer. Right. But if you go to Marshall Goldsmith AI, then you get Marshall's answer, which I think is brilliant.
- [33:18]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, you know the one I think would be interesting? Well, they're all kind of interesting in a sense. Lead by example is a little more self evident, but the one about Feed forward and feedback, I think that would be really interesting. So if you don't mind, I'm going to ask it another question.
- [33:36]
Vasco Duart
Go for it.
- [33:37]
Marshall Goldsmith
Okay, thank you. By the way, this is also great fun if nothing else.
- [33:43]
Vasco Duart
Indeed, it is so much fun.
- [33:47]
Marshall Goldsmith
Let's see if can answer it first. I'm asking a question. It's thinking right now. Okay, here you go. Here's the question I ask it. Please go into great detail. How can understanding FeedForward help Scrum Masters?
- [34:00]
AI Bot
Understanding FeedForward can be incredibly beneficial for Scrum Masters as it aligns well with the principles of Agile and Scrum, which emphasize adaptability, continuous improvement and collaboration. Here's how FeedForward can help Scrum Masters in detail. 1. Promotes continuous improvement. Scrum is an iterative process that relies on regular reflection and adaptation. FeedForward encourages team members to think about how they can improve in the next iteration or Sprint, rather than focusing on what went wrong in the past. This future oriented mindset is key to the agile principle of continuous improvement and helps maintain a positive team dynamic. 2. Enhances collaboration and respect. Scrum Masters are facilitators who must foster an environment of mutual respect and collaboration. FeedForward, by its nature, is non judgmental and constructive, which can help build trust and openness within the team. When team members feel safe to share ideas without fear of criticism, they are more likely to collaborate effectively and contribute to the team's success.
- [35:10]
Marshall Goldsmith
3.
- [35:10]
AI Bot
Improves communication. Effective communication is crucial in Scrum as the framework involves daily standups, sprint reviews and retrospectives. Feed Forward can improve the quality of these interactions by focusing on actionable suggestions that team members can use to communicate more effectively. This can lead to clearer and more productive.
- [35:31]
Marshall Goldsmith
By the way, this goes on and on and on. 4.
- [35:37]
AI Bot
Supports self organization. Scrum teams are self organizing with members taking ownership of tasks and processes. FeedForward empowers team members to take initiative and make positive changes without waiting for directives from above. This self directed improvement is at the heart of a truly agile team.
- [35:56]
Marshall Goldsmith
5.
- [35:57]
AI Bot
Facilitates stakeholder engagement.
- [35:59]
Vasco Duart
That is brilliant and it continues. I think that this is one of the brilliant contributions that this kind of tool can have. Right, because it really helps you to explore a topic in great depth, or in other words, as much depth as you want.
- [36:15]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, look, you and I together could write a small book about feedforward for Scrum Masters.
- [36:24]
Vasco Duart
Absolutely. We could definitely do that.
- [36:27]
Marshall Goldsmith
Yeah. I mean, it's already given us 10 chapters.
- [36:33]
Vasco Duart
There you go. And now just sprinkle a few real life examples which we can get from the podcast. And you've got a book. Absolutely. So, Marshall, of course people are very curious right now and they want to try it out. And you already said it, but we're going to repeat it now. So you just go to marshallgoldsmith AI and it's free and it's available right now.
- [36:56]
Marshall Goldsmith
That's it. That's it. And as I say, I'm glad you asked me this question. I wasn't going to do it. You got to push me to do it. I had no idea I could answer that question.
- [37:08]
Vasco Duart
I had an inkling that it would and I was very curious about how it would bring your thoughts into the answer. I think that's the brilliant aspect that this MarshallGoldsmith AI can bring.
- [37:21]
Marshall Goldsmith
I love it. I love it.
- [37:23]
Vasco Duart
Marshall, it's been a pleasure. We're getting close to the end here. Thank you for all the lessons and the insights you shared with our community. Where can people Find out more about you and the work that you're doing.
- [37:37]
Marshall Goldsmith
Just go to number one on LinkedIn. I can't have any more. What do you call connections. But I hate the term but I can have more followers. So I've got a million half followers. I'm always putting stuff on LinkedIn just I'm sure you can find me also go marshallgoldsmith.com also YouTube. I have hundreds of videos online or if you go to coaching.com there's a whole training program of my stuff online so I give everything away. So I've got. You could keep busy for a long time.
- [38:08]
Vasco Duart
So before you go, what's one parting word of advice that you have for our agile friends out there?
- [38:16]
Marshall Goldsmith
Well, I'm going to give you not so much about agile friends, but human beings in general. The best coaching advice I ever got. Are you ready? Take a deep breath. I want everybody listening to take a deep breath. I want you to imagine you're 95 years old and you're just getting ready to die. It's all over right before you take the last breath or give it a beautiful gift. The ability to go back in time. The ability to go back in time and listen to the person that's talking to me right now. The ability to help this person be a better leader. Much more important, have a better life. What advice would the wise 95 year old you who knows what mattered in life and what didn't and what was important and what wasn't? What advice would that wise old person have for the you that is listening to me right now? Whatever you're thinking now, do that terms of performance appraisal. That's the only one that's going to matter. That old person says you did the right thing. You did. The old person says you made a mistake. You did. You have to impress anybody else. Some friends of mine interviewed old folks who are dying. Got to ask this question. What advice would you have? Personal side 3 themes Theme 13 words. Be happy now. Life is short. Be happy now. Not next year, not next month, not. I'll be happy when I get the car, the status, the money. Be happy now. Learning two Friends and family never get so busy climbing the ladder of success you forget the people who love you. And three, you have a dream. Go for it. You know, go for it and you're 40. May not win your 80 business. Flies are much different. Number one, life is short. Have fun. Make the best of where you are. Have fun where you are. And if it's just too miserable, quit and Go someplace else. Life is short. Have fun. Number two, do whatever you can do to help people. And the main reason to help people has nothing to do with money or status or getting ahead. The main reason to all the stuff that I teach is the old person could be proud of you because you did. And disappointed if you don't. You don't believe that's true. Interview any CEO who's retired. I've interviewed hundreds. Ask them a question. What are you proud of? None ever told me how big the office was. They only talk about the people they helped. And the final is go for it. The world's changing, your industry changing. You never know. Go for it.
- [40:24]
Vasco Duart
You never know.
- [40:25]
Marshall Goldsmith
And by the way, look, let's be honest. Speaking of going for it, how cool is this for me? I'm 75 years old. I got my own computer bot. The thing is mind blowing. I love. This young kid comes to me and says, do you know about AI sir? Artificial Intelligence? I said, no, I. I don't know much, but my. My little friend can help you.
- [40:49]
Vasco Duart
And it will. It will. Definitely. It will. Defin Marshall. It's been a blast and a lot of fun. Thank you very much for being with us in this session and sharing all of that knowledge with our community. Thank you very much.
- [41:04]
Marshall Goldsmith
Thank you so much for inviting me.
- [41:08]
Vasco Duart
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