Business Case Ownership—The Product Owner's Core Duty | Lilia Pulova

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches

Episode: Business Case Ownership—The Product Owner's Core Duty | Lilia Pulova
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Lilia Pulova
Release Date: June 27, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, Vasco Duarte engages in a compelling conversation with Lilia Pulova, delving deep into the critical responsibilities of Product Owners (POs) within Agile frameworks. The episode, titled Business Case Ownership—The Product Owner's Core Duty, explores both the pitfalls and the exemplary practices that define effective product ownership.

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The Worst Product Owner Anti-Patterns

Lilia Pulova begins by shedding light on the most detrimental behaviors she has observed in Product Owners. According to Lilia, the lack of preparation is the foremost anti-pattern:

"[00:01:45] Lilia Pulova: From my experience, I would say that the worst anti-pattern for a PO is not doing the preparation for the meeting or the project or whatever the situation is..."

She recounts an instance where a Product Owner attended backlog refinement sessions unprepared, relying on senior developers and architects to set priorities and provide context. This approach not only burdens the technical team with decision-making roles that should belong to the PO but also leads to a lack of clear direction and business alignment.

Vasco Duarte echoes this sentiment, emphasizing that such POs treat the product as a mere container for tasks without a strategic vision:

"[00:03:35] Vasco Duarte: ...when the product owners don't even have a vision, they treat the product as just some kind of box that you throw tickets into."

This mindset results in unchecked accumulation of tasks, poor prioritization, and ultimately, a product that fails to deliver meaningful business value.

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Impact of Lack of Vision and Business Context

The conversation highlights the consequences of a PO lacking a clear vision. Without defined business objectives, the development team may gravitate towards tasks that are technically appealing but misaligned with business goals. Lilia points out:

"[00:05:12] Lilia Pulova: And devs, they will just pick the ticket that's more interesting for them to work on. That's it."

Vasco further elaborates on the necessity for POs to anchor the team's efforts within the broader business context, ensuring that every feature or improvement contributes to tangible business outcomes like increased revenue, customer engagement, or reduced churn.

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The Role of the Product Owner in Motivating the Team

Transitioning from anti-patterns, the discussion pivots to the positive influence POs can have on their teams. Lilia underscores the importance of patience and availability in a successful PO:

"[00:06:24] Lilia Pulova: I would say the greatest true skill of a product owner is patience and availability... he's always there for the team."

Vasco adds that a present and engaged PO conveys the significance of the team's work, fostering a sense of purpose and motivation:

"[00:07:59] Vasco Duarte: ...these product owners that are present is that they convey to the team how important the team's work really is."

This active participation not only boosts morale but also ensures that the team remains aligned with the product's goals and the organization's mission.

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Characteristics of an Excellent Product Owner

Highlighting exemplary traits, Vasko and Lilia discuss what sets outstanding POs apart:

• Patience and Availability: Being consistently accessible to address team queries and provide clarity.

• Product Knowledge: Possessing a deep understanding of the product and its business implications.

• Commitment: Demonstrating unwavering dedication to the product's success and the team's efforts.

• Communication: Facilitating open and continuous dialogue between stakeholders and the development team.

Lilia shares her admiration for a particular PO who embodies these qualities:

"[00:07:11] Lilia Pulova: ...he is very knowledgeable about the product. He can always answer the questions, and he's always available for the team whenever they need him."

Such POs inspire their teams, ensuring that every sprint delivers meaningful and valuable increments.

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Conclusion and Takeaways

The episode concludes with reflections on the pivotal role of Product Owners in Agile environments. Effective POs not only manage the product backlog but also steer the product towards achieving strategic business goals, thereby maximizing its impact. Their presence and commitment are instrumental in cultivating motivated, purpose-driven teams.

Key Takeaways:

1. Preparation is Paramount: Product Owners must come prepared to meetings, bringing clear priorities and a strategic vision.
2. Clear Vision and Business Context: POs should align product development with overarching business objectives.
3. Engaged and Available: Consistent presence and accessibility of the PO enhance team motivation and product quality.
4. Avoiding Anti-Patterns: Steering clear of delegating prioritization to the team ensures that the product remains aligned with business needs.

For those interested in further insights and resources, Lilia Pulova is available on LinkedIn, and additional details can be found in the show notes of the podcast episode.

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Notable Quotes:

• Lilia Pulova [01:45]: "The worst anti-pattern for a PO is not doing the preparation for the meeting or the project..."

• Vasco Duarte [03:35]: "...when the product owners don't even have a vision, they treat the product as just some kind of box that you throw tickets into."

• Vasco Duarte [07:59]: "...they convey to the team how important the team's work really is."

• Lilia Pulova [06:24]: "The greatest true skill of a product owner is patience and availability."

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for Scrum Masters, Agile Coaches, and Product Owners aiming to refine their practices and foster more effective, business-aligned product development.

Transcript

[Vasko]

Hey there Agile adventurer, just a quick question. What if for the price of a fancy coffee or half a pizza, you could unlock over 700 hours of the best agile content on the planet? That's audio, video, E courses, books, presentations, all that you can think of. But you can also join live calls with world class practitioners and hang out in a flame war free and AI slop clean slack with the sharpest minds in the game. Oh, and yes, you get direct access to me Vasko, your Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. No, this is not a drill. It's this Scrum Master Toolbox membership. And it's your unfair advantage in the agile world. So if you want to know more, go check out scrummastertoolbox.org membership. That's scrummastertoolbox.org Membership. And check out all the goodies we have for you. Do it now. But if you're not doing it now, let's listen to the podcast. Hello everybody. Welcome to our Friday TGIF and product owner episode of course this week with Lilia Pulova. Hey Lilia, welcome back.

[Lilia Pulova]

Hello everyone. Thank you for having me.

[Vasko]

So Friday's Product owner episode. So I'm curious to hear your stories. We'll talk about what great product owners act like in a minute. But before we go there, share with us Lilia, what might have been potentially the worst product owner anti pattern that you've witnessed in your career.

[Lilia Pulova]

From my experience I would say that the worst anti pattern for peo it's not to do the preparation for the meeting or the project or whatever the situation is. I had a product owner that would come for the backlog refinement without any preparation and I would just expect senior devs and architects to give the context and tell them what we'll be working on next Sprint, which to me is wrong. They will not give any priorities or directions on where the product has to go or what is the expectation of the business for us to deliver this the next increment and just shift it on the shoulders of the team and architects to decide. So this is a, I would say great anti pattern for me and this.

[Vasko]

Happens in some very specific ways. Like one might be that never talking with the developers about the details of a story because there's a lot of expectations, user interaction, stakeholder expectations that are inbuilt in that user story discussion that you would for example do in a backlog refinement. But one of the things that really shocks me in this anti pattern is when the product owners don't even have a vision they treat the product as just some kind of box that you throw tickets into. Just the tickets come in and then whatever the tickets are, we'll just put them in. No need to prioritize. Always just put in one more and one more and one more. Was it like that with this particular product owner as well?

[Lilia Pulova]

I think it was even a bit worse because the product owner all of the above. But on the top of it, there was no managing of the product for the team. So the product owner was expecting for architects to manage the development of the product and tell the product owner on where will we go next? Sprint. I understand. If it's a technical solution, yes, the architects will help us, will direct us toward the proper technical solution. But since it's a business case, it's a product that needs to be prioritized for certain features. This is a product owner job number one. To give the vision of the product to show the value that he or she expects for the team to deliver in the next increment.

[Vasko]

Exactly. When you think about the responsibility of a product within a business. Right. The responsibility of a product within a business is not to just deliver more features, it is to have an impact in the business. Whether it is to reduce costs, increase revenues, get more customers, reduce churn, increase engagement, whatever that is. The product is there to do something. If that something isn't defined at all, then of course we have no filter. We have no way of deciding what's important for that particular product.

[Lilia Pulova]

And devs, they will just pick the ticket that's more interesting for them to work on. That's it.

[Vasko]

Yeah, exactly. And usually that's a very technical detail that may have no impact or meaning within the wider business context. Absolutely, yes, absolutely. And that's really the role of the product owner to bring in the business context, to make sure that the business context is always in the conversation. Because for a tech team, it's very easy to just focus on the technology and forget everything around it.

[Lilia Pulova]

They like to do the fun part, like do the code. But I always tell them, guys, this job is a package deal. You don't always do only the fun stuff. Sometimes you have to do something more boring or less interesting. But since it's for the value of the product, that's what we need to deliver.

[Vasko]

Absolutely. It's a package deal. Being a product owner and talking about a package deal, this episode is also a package deal. We don't only talk about anti patterns, we also talk about great examples. So Liliya, share with us the best product owner you've Ever worked with. How did they work?

[Lilia Pulova]

I would say the greatest true skill of product owner, it's patience and availability. I have one guy in my organization, I told him many times, he's one of the best poe I ever worked with, because he is. I can't even define the amount of his patience with all the questions we ask him. He's very knowledgeable on the product. He can always answer the question, and he's always available for the team whenever Tim needs him. I never heard from him. Oh, we already discussed that. Like, how many times can I repeat? I had this in my career as well. I had these examples. He's always there for the team, for the product, whatever it needed from him, he's always there.

[Vasko]

Yeah. And one of the things that I really like about this presence, I guess we could call it. Right. So one of the things that I really like about these product owners that are present is that they convey to the team how important the team's work really is. Right. Because when you show presence, you're showing importance. Like, what you're doing matters to me. I want to be here to help you do what you're doing. And this creates this kind of motivational dynamic for the team because then they give stuff to the product owner they are happy about, then their presence gives them the motivation back, the feedback gives them the motivation back. And it's almost like we are magically creating even more motivation within the team.

[Lilia Pulova]

Absolutely. This kind of commitment, it's very inspirational, I would say, also and motivational for the team because team knows that they don't just deliver something, they deliver something valuable. And people care about their delivery. People care about the product they work on because hire management. Yes, we all have regular quarterly meetings, or let's say, yearly town hall, but sometimes it's not enough for the team to feel this value of their work. And Po, when he's there for his team and he cares about the product we deliver, it's a great inspiration to keep going.

[Vasko]

Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that you say that I really want to reinforce is that this presence by the PO and actively participating with the team is also the connection that the team needs to the wider mission of the organization and the product itself.

[Lilia Pulova]

Yes, exactly.

[Vasko]

It's been a wonderful week. Lilia, thank you very much for sharing all of these great stories with us. And we're getting close to the end. But before we go, where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing?

[Lilia Pulova]

Lilia, I'm on LinkedIn. I can share my link if you want to. If you want to connect with me, I'm open.

[Vasko]

Absolutely. And everybody, the link is in the show notes. So go ahead and give some feedback to Lilia. Maybe the things you like the most, maybe you have some curiosity, questions that you want to know more about, then please go ahead and connect. We are a community and that's what we are trying to create also with the podcast, this sense of community because a lot of the things that you are facing, we are all facing together. Lili, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for being with us and for your generosity with your time and your knowledge.

[Lilia Pulova]

Thank you for inviting me. It was my absolute pleasure.

[Vasko]

All right, I hope you liked this episode, but before you hit next episode, here's the deal. This podcast is powered by people like you, the members who wanted more than just inspiration. They wanted real tools and real connection to people who are practicing Agile. Every day we're talking access to over 700 hours of agile gold, CTO level strategy talks, Summit keynotes, live workshops, E courses, Deep Dive interviews, books, and if you're into no Estimates, we got the pioneers of no Estimates in those Deep Dive interviews as well. Agile Business Intelligence, creating product visions, coaching your product owner courses, you name it. You'll get invites to monthly live Q&As with agile pioneers and practitioners, plus a private Slack community which is free of all of that AI slop you see see everywhere. And of course, without the flame wars, it's a community of practitioners that want to learn and thrive together. It's the best place to connect with community and learn together. So if this podcast has helped you before, imagine what you will get from this podcast membership. So head on over to scrummastertoolbox.org for and join the community that's shaping the future of Agile. We have so much for you, so check out all the [e-mail] membership because listening is great, it's important. But doing it together, that's next level. I'll see you in the community. Slack we really hope you liked our show. And if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes. Share this podcast and let other Scrum masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that sharing is caring.