Podcast Summary

Demonstrating Your Value When the Market Questions Agile Roles

Podcast: Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Natalia Curusi
Release Date: December 17, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Vasco Duarte and guest Natalia Curusi tackle a pressing challenge for Agile practitioners: how to prove the value of Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches in a market that is increasingly skeptical of Agile roles, particularly amidst layoffs and the rise of AI. Natalia shares her first-hand perspective on shrinking opportunities for Agile professionals, and together they explore strategies for adapting, thriving, and communicating value in uncertain times.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shrinking Demand for Agile Roles

• [01:45–03:49] Natalia expresses concern over a decreasing demand for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches, observing widespread layoffs and market skepticism, especially post-COVID and with the acceleration of AI adoption.

  • Quote:

    “We have seen a decrease in the demand for agility on the market in general. ... My challenge is how we fit ourselves as Scrum Masters, as coaches, into that kind of AI era.”
    — Natalia Curusi [01:45]

• [03:49–05:15] Vasco and Natalia discuss whether the decline is specific to agility or if it reflects broader contractions in the software industry.

  • Quote:

    “Are we seeing that there is less demand for agility ... or are we experiencing an overall lower demand of all software-related roles?”
    — Vasco Duarte [04:12]

2. Perceptions and Business Decisions Affecting Agile Roles

• [05:15–06:26] Natalia describes seeing Scrum Masters as the first to be let go, with their work often blended with other roles (tester + Scrum Master, BA + Scrum Master), indicating businesses see Scrum Mastery as expendable rather than essential.

  • Quote:

    “They usually let go Scrum Masters and they go into the blending of the role … It’s not enough to be a Scrum Master anymore.”
    — Natalia Curusi [05:35]

• [06:26–08:03] Vasco points out that decision-makers often reduce headcount based on who seems least essential to product delivery (i.e., those not directly coding, designing, or testing). He highlights how value is measured in accounting terms rather than long-term team health.

  • Quote:

    “When you are the head of a department and you think, okay, what can I do so that I have the least disruption possible short-term, the answer is very easy. The people who don't code, don't design ...”
    — Vasco Duarte [07:20]

3. The Intangible Value of Scrum Masters

• [08:03–10:48] Both agree that the unique, catalyst or glue value of Scrum Masters—improving team collaboration, facilitating communication, and enabling continuous improvement—is difficult to quantify, and its loss is often only felt months later.

  • Quote:

    “As you pointed to, we all need to have the answer to that question, right? ... What value are we bringing to the teams and the organizations that we work with?”
    — Vasco Duarte [09:18]

  • Quote:

    “The biggest value … is to let the team and organization in a better state than they find it … to put in place the continuous improvement that is sustainable and scalable.”
    — Natalia Curusi [09:50]

• [10:48–12:58] Vasco and Natalia discuss the situational, adaptable nature of Scrum Mastery—always shifting between facilitation, coaching, teaching, and supporting, according to the team's evolving needs.

  • Quote:

    “A Scrum Master probably is a very situational role … you need to approach the team to see what this team actually needs.”
    — Natalia Curusi [11:42]

4. The Cost of Context-Switching and the Value of Continuity

• [12:58–14:26] Vasco warns that replacing Scrum Masters disrupts team dynamics, resetting the progress teams make toward high performance—drawing analogies to sports and the Tuckman Model (norming, storming, performing).
  • Quote:

    “When you change Scrum Masters, it's like going back to square zero … it's like thinking about a performing team, whether it is a ballet or football … If you change the context all the time, you are contributing to the team going back to square zero.”
    — Vasco Duarte [13:45]

5. Making Value Visible with Metrics

• [14:26–15:54] Natalia stresses the need to demonstrate value with tangible metrics (predictability, release frequency, team wellbeing) since qualitative benefits are hard to communicate to non-Agile stakeholders.

  • Quote:

    “Sometimes we need to put some metrics and … businesses … they understand numbers. … If you don’t have any kind of metrics for your work … you probably will be the first person to go out of organization.”
    — Natalia Curusi [14:39]

• She highlights the risk of being perceived as an “agile evangelist” rather than a practical contributor if value isn’t clearly articulated.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Market Contraction:

  “I have seen on the market … it's not enough to be a Scrum Master anymore … You need to be a BA plus Scrum Master.”
  — Natalia Curusi [05:39]

• On Difficult Choices:

  “Most of the work that the teams do is really doing the work to get the product out the door … So the key question is—what value are we bringing as Scrum Masters?”
  — Vasco Duarte [07:43]

• On the Nature of the Role:

  “A Scrum Master need to put on the coach, then to put a head of teacher, then to put a head of facilitator … and sometimes this happens several times per day.”
  — Natalia Curusi [12:01]

• On Demonstrating Value:

  “As long as you cannot bring something practical to the organization, you probably will be the first person to go out of organization.”
  — Natalia Curusi [15:37]

Important Timestamps

• 01:45 – Natalia introduces the core challenge of Agile role value and relevance.
• 05:15–06:26 – Trending practice of blending and eliminating Scrum Master roles.
• 09:48 – Natalia articulates her view of Agile coaches' real value.
• 11:42 – The adaptability and situational leadership required of Scrum Masters.
• 13:45 – Impact of changing Scrum Masters on team performance.
• 14:39 – The need to use quantitative metrics to communicate value.

Takeaways for Agile Practitioners

• Be Ready to Articulate Concrete Value:
  Identify and communicate how your work improves measurable outcomes (predictability, release cadence, morale).

• Adopt Flexibility:
  The ideal Scrum Master adapts to team and organizational needs daily—be prepared to shift hats as facilitator, coach, teacher, or mentor.

• Collect and Share Metrics:
  While qualitative improvements are vital, business leaders understand numbers—track and report on metrics that matter to your stakeholders.

• Emphasize Long-term Impact:
  Highlight how consistent Agile leadership prevents regression to lower-performing team states.

• Stay Attuned to Market Trends:
  Be aware of the growing expectation that Scrum Masters bring additional skills and be proactive in upskilling where needed.

Closing

Vasco and Natalia remind listeners that in times of skepticism and change, demonstrating the practical, situational value of Agile roles is more important than ever. The episode ends with a teaser for the next discussion focused on measuring success for Scrum Masters.