Establishing Communication Channels, Lessons From a Scrum Master's Failure | Zvonimir Durcevic

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches

Episode: Establishing Communication Channels, Lessons From a Scrum Master's Failure | Zvonimir Durcevic
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Zvonimir Durcevic (also referred to as Tsvonimir Durcevich)
Release Date: March 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte welcomes Zvonimir Durcevic, an experienced Agile Coach and Certified Scrum Master from Austria. The conversation delves into Zvonimir's professional journey, his challenges as a Scrum Master, and the invaluable lessons he learned from his setbacks.

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Guest Background and Journey to Scrum Mastery

Zvonimir Durcevic begins by sharing his transition from traditional project management to Agile methodologies. Initially working as a software developer, he was thrust into project management roles where conventional tools like Gantt charts and work breakdown structures proved ineffective in the rapidly changing software development environment.

Notable Quote:

"Everything was changing so fast that we couldn't answer these questions that were at that time important Cloud like how long it will take, how much it will cost."
— Zvonimir Durcevic [02:14]

Frustrated with the rigidity of traditional project management, Zvonimir sought alternatives and discovered the Agile movement, particularly Scrum. He emphasizes the shift in mindset—from focusing solely on timelines and costs to valuing customer-centric outcomes and adaptable, high-quality software development.

Notable Quote:

"The basic ideas, the mindset was different, the approach was different, and the questions were also different. The questions were more like, what is the value that we could deliver to our customers?"
— Zvonimir Durcevic [02:14]

This revelation led him to obtain his first Scrum Master certification in 2005, marking the beginning of a fulfilling career in Agile product development.

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The Failure Story: Managing a Scrum Team's Backlog

Vasco steers the conversation toward the episode's core theme: failure and the lessons it imparts. Zvonimir recounts a challenging experience while working as an external Scrum Master with a software development team tasked with creating a new product within a sizable organization.

Notable Quote:

"We explicitly signed, we are using Scrum. And it was really a good start."
— Zvonimir Durcevic [05:47]

Initially, the project appeared to be on track with positive stakeholder relationships and a focus on technical excellence. However, complexities surfaced as the team navigated dependencies and growth within the backlog. Signs of trouble began when team members were not fully dedicated, juggling daily duties alongside Scrum responsibilities.

Notable Quote:

"The backlog was starting to grow as they usually do, right?... And I couldn't persuade them to get backlog smaller."
— Zvonimir Durcevic [12:17]

This backlog proliferation led to missed milestones and escalating frustrations among stakeholders, culminating in a situation where accountability was lacking, and finger-pointing became prevalent.

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Analysis of What Went Wrong

Zvonimir identifies several critical missteps that contributed to the project's downfall:

1. Insufficient Communication Channels:

   • The lack of transparent communication within the organization hindered visibility into the project's true state.

   Notable Quote:

   "Setting up things like the communication channels, which I discovered later that they were not open, so it was not transparent for the rest of the organization, what is really going on in the project."
   — Zvonimir Durcevic [12:41]

2. Backlog Management Failures:

   • An ever-growing backlog without proper prioritization and pruning led to overwhelm and decreased team focus.

3. Lack of Early Engagement with Stakeholders:

   • Not establishing clear agreements and understanding the organizational context from the outset resulted in misaligned expectations and support.

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Lessons Learned and Advice

Reflecting on his experience, Zvonimir emphasizes the importance of foundational practices that can prevent such failures:

1. Establishing Clear Communication Channels:

   • From the project's inception, setting up open and transparent communication ensures all stakeholders are aligned and informed.

   Notable Quote:

   "One of the biggest learning out of this story was to devote more time at the beginning of the project... setting up the communication channels."
   — Zvonimir Durcevic [12:41]

2. Early and Comprehensive Contracting with Stakeholders:

   • Defining how the team will collaborate, communicate, and operate within the organizational ecosystem helps in mitigating future conflicts.

3. Active Backlog Management:

   • Regularly refining and prioritizing the backlog prevents it from becoming unmanageable and ensures that the team remains focused on delivering value.

4. Understanding Organizational Context:

   • Investing time to learn the nuances of the organization's culture and processes can inform better Agile practices and enhance team integration.

5. Continuous Learning and Adaptation:

   • Embracing failures as learning opportunities fosters resilience and continuous improvement within the Agile framework.

Notable Quote:

"Spending more time with the team and the organization to learn the context, to learn their context. How do they do things how do they communicate in the organization."
— Zvonimir Durcevic [14:01]

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Conclusion

Zvonimir Durcevic's candid recounting of his challenges as a Scrum Master offers profound insights into the intricacies of Agile project management. His experiences underscore the paramount importance of effective communication, proactive stakeholder engagement, and diligent backlog management. For Agile practitioners and Scrum Masters, his story serves as a valuable lesson on navigating and overcoming the inevitable hurdles in the path of Agile transformation.

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Additional Highlights

• Fail Monday Segment: The episode's focus on "Fail Monday" encourages Scrum Masters to share and learn from their failures, fostering a culture of transparency and continuous improvement within the Agile community.

• Upcoming Global Agile Summit: Although not the central theme, the episode concludes with a promotion for the Global Agile Summit, highlighting its relevance for those seeking to rejuvenate their Agile practices and combat Agile fatigue through real-world success stories and expert insights.

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Tune in to gain actionable advice, new tips, and inspiring conversations that can elevate your Scrum Mastery and Agile coaching techniques.

Transcript

[Vasco]

Have you ever wondered what it really.

[Unknown]

Takes to make Agile work well? At the Global Agile Summit, we're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action. Whether you're a leader, a product innovator, a developer, you'll hear practical insights from those who've done it. They'll be telling their own stories from the stage. I'll tell you more about this at the end of this episode. So stay back and listen to the full detailed description of what we have in store for you at the Global Agile Summit. But if you can't wait, you can go right now to globalagilesummit.com and check out our full schedule for now onto the episode. But I'll see you at the end of this episode with more details on the Global Agile Summit. Talk to you soon. Hello everybody.

[Vasco]

Welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And this week, joining us from Austria, the beautiful country of Austria is Tsvonimir Durcevich. Hey Tsvoni, welcome to the show.

[Tsvonimir Durcevich]

Hi Moscow. Thank you very much. Thank you for being here.

[Vasco]

So Tsvanimir had the good sense of coming up with a nickname, Tsvone, which is very easy to pronounce for me and I'm very famous for destroying people's names. So thank you Tsvane, for having an easy to pronounce name.

[Tsvonimir Durcevich]

You're welcome.

[Vasco]

Svane has worked in Agile product development since 2005, just about the same time as I did. I started in 2004 holding roles such as Grandmaster, Agile Coach, IT Project and R and D Manager. And he works with teams to co create tailored solutions to increase engagement and improve customer focus and effectiveness, enabling accelerated value delivery and rapid adaptation to change. So Svani, that was a short intro. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master?

[Tsvonimir Durcevich]

Thank you Vasco. So Vasco, I was really frustrated with how difficult it was to manage software projects with traditional project management. So basically I started my career as a software developer and very soon, very early on, my company asked me to help with project management and I started with what I have learned. I started with Gantt charts, I started with work breakdown structures and for me and for this company, it just didn't work. Everything was changing so fast that we couldn't answer these questions that were at that time important Cloud like how long it will take, how much it will cost. And as I said, I was really frustrated and started to search for something that can help us that can help me. And I found it. I found it in Agile Movement and especially Scrum. Of course, I started reading the books that were out at that time, Ideas of Development with Scrum, Adaptive Software Development from Jim Highsmith. And what I found out is that the basic ideas, the mindset was different, the approach was different, and the questions were also different. The questions were more like, what is the value that we could deliver to our customers? And what is the quality reliable? What is the reliable and adaptive adaptable software? And what are the constraints? So this iron triangle moved into this constraints area. It was still important, but it was not like the most important thing, like an iron triangle. And this is where then I did my first certification, 2005 as a scrum Master. And then I moved like, also in different roles, but to be honest, I never look back.

[Vasco]

Yeah, I can relate to that. And especially the frustration of not being able to do the things that you thought and perhaps were even told. I don't know about you, but definitely I was told that project management would help with. I remember, I distinctly remember that frustration of looking at the Gantt charts and realizing that this is just fluff, this will never work. And I was a project manager, trained project manager. So of course I found my own approaches. I. I started to appreciate the value of kickoff meetings. And that's certainly something that is very useful and we should all learn from. But I also realized how Gantt charts were totally useless. Totally useless. And how it was. How important it was to get the whole team together and have it together, own the delivery. Right. Which is something that Scrum has from the beginning. It's part of Scrum. But of course, that was my story. I don't know what story you have to share with us, Svane, but of course, today is Fail Monday here on the podcast. So we want a juicy story, a story of a difficult moment you had as a Scrum Master, as you were learning, perhaps, or even later, because we continue to learn throughout our career. So tell us that story, Svane. We'll dive into the takeaways later, but tell us that story first.

[Tsvonimir Durcevich]

Yeah, I have to say I learned a lot, which means that I really did. I did some mistakes and that I learned a lot from my failures. And I think it's important, as you said, to learn from them and also to share them so that we can learn from each other in the community. Yeah, there is one particular story I want to share and it had a big impact also on the way how I am working as a screen Scrum Master and Agile coach later. And, well, I was working as an external Scrum master with the software development team, developing a new product in the organization. And my role was to support them in adopting agile practices and improving their way of working. We explicitly signed, we are using Scrum. And it was really a good start. So early on, everything seemed to be going well. We had a good communication with stakeholders and customers. We also, I think that we had established really a good relationship with the rest of the organization. And the team was really, I would not say well, I would say, yeah, they were happy, they were doing something new. They knew that they were also a kind of, you know, doing something new in the organization. So it was not a small organization, but they had a certain visibility like, oh, look, they're doing something new. They are also. They were really putting a lot of, a lot of focus on technical excellence. So it was really a good start. And then a bit deeper into development, we discovered a hidden complexity in one of the epics.

[Vasco]

Okay, so this is a great turning point for the story. So everything was going well and over time you started to realize that maybe some things were not going as well as you thought. So before we dive into the complexity of the epics, what were some of the signs that you started to see that something was perhaps amiss?

[Tsvonimir Durcevich]

Yeah, this is a good question, Masco. So one of the things that I noticed is first that the people were not kind of 100% dedicated to the team. They also had their kind of daily duties and it started to take more of their time. And this is where I got a bit concerned that they will not have enough time to devote to working in the team, with the team, and especially in areas where you have kind of complex development, where your development is kind of interacting with a lot of other systems in the organization. So there are some kind of dependencies. And it's not so easy to really look through this complexity and identify where should we focus as next. So this is kind of thing that gave me kind of feeling something is going on. I started to having conversations with management, but it was, I will explain later, when basically a lot of things escalated and when stakeholders got frustrated because of missing some important milestones, then things get a bit of, you know, I would not say very, very ugly, but it was really difficult because in the organization a lot of people started, well, because of the visibility, they started pointing fingers.

[Vasco]

Yeah, absolutely. So you started to see that, okay, so there's something that is not going so well. You decided, okay, I need to talk to management about what is going on? What were the topics that you were bringing up first?

[Tsvonimir Durcevich]

I said that I'm noticing that people have less time to devote to the. In this case, it was time for refinements, which was very important in exactly this discovery of complexity that could be hidden in some of the epics or in the backlog. And, and yeah, I got answers that it is part of the work, that there are some, you know, there are some things now also getting more important in these daily duties, which I also understand because, well, we are, you know, the reality is a bit different than if we just look at what could be in the theory or just to set up the theoretical. Theoretical setup. But yeah, so this was one of the very important statements. And the backlog was starting to grow. Backlog was starting, growing as they usually do, right? Exactly, exactly. And this is where we had kind of difficult conversations. And I noticed that people are really afraid of deleting strings things. And it was, well, it was one of my first, I would say, small failures in the projects. I couldn't, I couldn't persuade them to, to get backlog smaller. It was just growing. And, and although I explained how difficult it will be to get to still remain in a control that they have oversight of what is in the backlog and they didn't listen to me, this.

[Vasco]

Is a very common story. I bet many of our listeners have faced this exact same story. So let's address Luke, our faithful Scrum master out there trying to fight the evil forces of backlog overwhelm, which are always coming whether we like it or not. Right. So, Tvane, if you had the opportunity to go back and relive that story, what would you have done differently?

[Tsvonimir Durcevich]

Yeah, this is, this is a good, this is a good question. My, my biggest learning out of this story was to, to devote more time at the beginning of the project or engagement, doing something that we call kind of contracting or setting up agreements with the organization, the stakeholders, the sponsor and the stakeholders in the organization. How will I work with the team and the organization? And setting up things like the communication channels, which I discovered later that they were not open, so it was not transparent for the rest of the organization, what is really going on in the project or what is the state of the backlog and so on. And these things then backfired later. So, yeah, one of the biggest things that I learned is to really invest not only in setting up agreements, but also spending more time with the team and the organization to learn the context, to learn their context. How do they do things how do they communicate in the organization? This is what I'm trying to do now.

[Vasco]

Absolutely. This is a great example of something we can learn from project management, which emphasizes a lot through of course, decades of experience. Actually by now, probably centuries, about a century or so when project management was first formalize this, this concept of the, the stakeholders, right. Like the people who can influence the project. And also the communication strategy, like all project managers will learn that communication is one of the key aspects that project managers need to look into and establish very early on, just like you said. And this is something that Scrum masters can learn very much from project management as well. It's, it's a great insight and a great lesson. Thank you for sharing that Swane.

[Tsvonimir Durcevich]

You're welcome.

[Unknown]

Hey friend, thank you for staying here. Is all you need to know about the Global Agile Summit. If you've ever suffered or know people who are suffering from Agile fatigue, this event is for you. Agile fatigue is that feeling that settles in when we can't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. We get discouraged. Especially when conversations revolve around the same old frameworks, the same old buzzwords and theories.

[Vasco]

We don't feel that energy anymore.

[Unknown]

Well, the Global Agile Summit is a different kind of event. We're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action and transform the way you work. The Global Agile Summit will happen In Tallinn, Estonia, May 18th. That's the workshop day. Then 19th and 20th, the conference day. And Tallinn, Estonia is one of the most innovative tech hubs in Europe. The Global Agile Summit is hosted together with Latitude 59, which is kind of a citywide celebration of software startups and groups, groundbreaking ideas and we'll have a shared ticket for you to attend those events as well. So who will be speaking? Well, we've got an incredible lineup of thought leaders in software and agile. For example, Clinton Keith, the person who wrote, literally wrote the book on game development with Scrum and is busy bringing Agile to the world of game development. You must check his session. The very famous and well known Jurgen Apello, author of Management 3.0, will be talking and exploring about AI's impact on leadership. We also have Goiko Adsic, who's taking an unconventional look at the product growth with his Lizard Optimization keynote. Other speakers include, for example, Sven Dietz, whose challenging approach everything we know about software development by ditching, literally ditching contracts and estimates. Can you imagine his teams deliver software before their competitors are even done with the contract negotiation. How Agile is that? But there's more. We'll cover engineering practices in our developer track with talks on for example AI assisted test driven development, developing products in minutes with a different approach to how we develop, configure, deploy platforms, and much more. We also have a product track where we cover cutting edge ideas around product discovery, delighting customers with product delight frameworks. We'll have a talk about that. And we also have an Agile Business track where we will talk about, for example Open strategy, a very agile approach to managing organizations and delivering software faster to clients faster than you can even write a contract.

[Vasco]

Literally.

[Unknown]

I mean, I already told you about Svendeet's story is amazing. It definitely is a must see. I'm sure you'll be inspired and get a lot of ideas for your own software projects and software delivery. Now whether you're a business leader, a product innovator or a developer, you'll definitely find value in our three focused tracks. That's Agile Business for those working with businesses and organizations, Agile Product for product managers, product owners and innovators and Agile Developer for the builders making Agile work in practice. The coders, the testers, the designers, the producers, the scrum masters, you name it. If you join, you will meet over 200 agile professionals from all over the world. People who just like you, want to grow, want to share and want to learn by challenging the ideas that don't work anymore at the Global Agile Summit, you'll get new connections, fresh ideas and the energy to take your own Agile to the next level. And who knows, maybe even find your next career opportunity. So don't miss out. Check out the full program and grab your ticket [e-mail] I'm really looking forward to seeing you all in Tallinn, Estonia in May. I'll see you there.

[Tsvonimir Durcevich]

SA.