From Boss to Facilitator—The Critical Role of Empathy in Scrum Mastery | Mariano Gontchar

Summary

Podcast Summary: "From Boss to Facilitator—The Critical Role of Empathy in Scrum Mastery"

Podcast: Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Mariano Gontchar (Madrid-based Scrum Master)
Date: September 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the transformation from traditional Project Management to Scrum Mastery, examining the mindset shifts necessary for effective Agile leadership. Guest Mariano Gontchar shares his multifaceted journey through developer, Product Owner, Project Manager, and ultimately Scrum Master roles. The conversation focuses on the fundamental role empathy plays in Scrum Mastery and offers insights for those transitioning from command-and-control approaches to servant leadership.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Mariano’s Agile Journey: From Developer to Scrum Master

• Early Career & First Encounter with Scrum ([02:06]-[05:52])
  • Mariano started as a front-end developer in Buenos Aires (2007), where he encountered Scrum for the first time—having never learned about it at university.
  • Initial reaction to Agile ways: "I have the waterfall in my mind and when I start to understand the Scrum or Kanban ... it's like wow, this is different. ... Well, and I love that." ([03:27])
• Transition to Product Owner and Project Manager
  • Moved into Product Owner role, enjoying the increased collaboration with clients and technical teams.
  • Later became a Project Manager, a more traditional role, but continued to self-educate: "I try every time to continuous learning ... the guide of Scrum Master every year." ([05:55])
• Formal Move to Scrum Master
  • Earned Scrum Master certification in 2015 but did not practice officially until 2020.
  • Taught project management and introduced Agile concepts to university students: "I decided to incorporate basic concept of Scrum and agility into a course. Maybe one or two lessons like appeals, right? I make so many plays like Lego when you need to create a monster or something like that." ([07:06])
  • The official change came in 2020 during a position at Telecom, marking a significant mindset shift.

Mindset Shifts: Project Manager to Scrum Master

• From Command to Facilitation ([08:40]-[10:26])
  • "Now you are not a boss, you are a servant leader. ... You need to be a facilitator. Not to say you need to do that or you need that time to finish that. You need to facilitate the team. You are another person, really." ([08:49], Mariano)
  • Emphasizes that true understanding of Agile comes from real-world practice, not just certifications or theory.
  • Recognizes that not all Agile ceremonies unfold perfectly in reality and adaptation is crucial.

The Critical Role of Empathy

• Empathy as the Key Difference ([10:26]-[12:06])
  • Host Vasco asks what critical lesson crystallized for Mariano in the shift from Project Manager to Scrum Master.
  • Mariano stresses empathy with teams as the pivotal lesson:
    • "I think that is empathize with the team. Maybe the Project manager don't empathize with the team, say, hey, we need that in that time run nothing else. ... But with the time with working with the different teams ... you need to empathize with the team, understand what happened in this team, what happened with the people who worked in that team. This is for me is the first change that you need to in your mind." ([10:58])
  • Vasco affirms this as a beautiful lesson and thanks Mariano for sharing.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the epiphany of Agile vs. Waterfall:
  "I have the waterfall in my mind and when I start to understand the Scrum or Kanban or many things that's happening in that company, it's like wow, this is different. ... And I love that."
  — Mariano ([03:27])

• On the challenge of theory vs. practice:
  "I understand that I can get more certification. I can, I don't know, read a lot of books. But if you are not working with that, you don't understand all the potential. ... The theory is wonderful, right? But the experience change your think."
  — Mariano ([09:26])

• On the core shift moving to Scrum Mastery:
  "Now you are not a boss, you are a servant leader. ... You need to facilitate the team. You are another person, really."
  — Mariano ([08:49])

• On empathy as the cornerstone:
  "Empathize with the team. ... You need to empathize with the team, understand what happened in this team, what happened with the people who worked in that team. This is for me is the first change that you need in your mind."
  — Mariano ([10:58])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:06] Mariano's background and first Agile experiences
• [05:55] Commitment to ongoing learning and certification
• [08:49] Major mindset differences between Project Manager and Scrum Master roles
• [10:58] Highlighting empathy as the pivotal lesson in facilitating Agile teams

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Final Takeaways

• Real Scrum Mastery is a shift from directing to enabling—a movement from authoritative boss to empathetic facilitator.
• Empathy is the critical asset that bridges theoretical Agile knowledge with effective team collaboration.
• Certification and theory are helpful, but practical experience and emotional intelligence are essential to truly supporting teams.

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Intended audience: Project Managers exploring Scrum, new and practicing Scrum Masters, Agile Coaches seeking real-world guidance.

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“You are not a boss, you are a servant leader ... you need to empathize with the team.”
— Mariano Gontchar ([08:49], [10:58])

Transcript

[A]

Hey there agile adventurer, just a quick question. What if for the price of a fancy coffee or half a pizza, you could unlock over 700 hours of the best agile content on the planet? That's audio, video, E courses, books, presentations, all that you can think of. But you can also join live calls with world class practitioners and hang out in a flame war free and AI slop clean slack with the sharpest minds in the game. Oh, and yes, you get direct access to me, Vasko, your Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. No, this is not a drill, it's this Scrum Master Toolbox membership. And it's your unfair advantage in the agile world. So if you want to know more, go check out scrummastertoolbox.org membership, that's scrummastertoolbox.org Membership. And check out all the goodies we have for you. Do it now. But if you're not doing it now, let's listen to the podcast.

[B]

Hello everybody, welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And this week joining us from Spain is Mariano Gonciar. Hey Mariano, welcome to the show.

[C]

Hello Vasco. Hello audience, how are you?

[B]

Mariano is a Madrid based Scrum Master with a unique multi perspective journey through many agile roles. Having moved from developer to product owner to project manager and now as grandmaster, he brings comprehensive insights to team facilitation and backlog management. Mariano specializes in practical agile adoption strategies that work in real world environment. The kind of environments we are all facing. So Mariano, that was a short intro. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master?

[C]

First of all, I am Argentinian, I born in Argentinian and I began my career in 2007 but I becoming scrum master into 2020 a lot of time when I first with my career professional, when I start to be a Scrum Master. Right, let me start with the starters, right? Like a programmer, not just one transforming a Scrum Master.

[B]

Okay, so tell us a little bit more about that.

[C]

Yes, because how I say I began my career in 2007 quite a few years ago now, right? As a front end developer in Buenos Aires. What surprised me about the company and they work in Scrum, but I don't know anything about Scrum in that part of my life because I completely new for me I just go to university. In the university nothing told me about Agile or scam. Maybe the years and in 2007 maybe the information about the scam is in some particular companies, I don't know. But in university nobody Told me about Scrum and when I start to my first employee say what is that? I don't know. I understand what happened there but I feel like Scrum helped me to integrate with the team and as I journey I helped me better understand the needed. It was very surprised because I have the waterfall in my mind and when I start to understand the Scrum or Kanban or many things that's happening in that company, it's like wow, this is different. This is. They have great things, right? Well, and I love that. So quickly I. I started to program her and it's wonderful for me but I have a. I'm not a real developer, right? I like the connection with the. The client. I start to connection this with the client. The company offered me a few years later the opportunity to transition to PO role and great for me too because my job was to define the requirements and the user story. I need to talk with the client, I need to talk to the technical team. Great for me and say well, I like this, I like this part of the Agile and say well, I continue with that in this company. But the time passed and I changed the company, I changed many things. What happened? I start to be a PM in another company, right? It's more common in Argentina in that time, Rob.

[B]

And PM means Project Manager, right?

[C]

Right. Yeah, but I love it Scrum. I love Agile methodology and I try every time to continuous learning, continuous reading some books, some papers, the guide of Scrum Master every year. And around 2015 I got my first Scrum Master certification because I want to continue learning.

[B]

Was it then when you started working as a Scrum Master or did you still work as a project Manager?

[C]

Yes, when you are pm Project manager, right? Because I don't know, I love that and I need to certification that say okay, I know because I don't working with that, but I like it. Then he's curious, but I prefer how.

[B]

Did you then end up becoming a Scrum Master five years later, right? In 2020?

[C]

Yeah, in 2020. Yeah, officially, right? It was officially because during this time I start to be. I started to teaching in universities common in Argentina. Work and teach. Well, no, no, it is common. If you like teach, you can work in the morning and the afternoon and at night you can be a teacher. Then I start to teaching an university course on project Manager project management. But I remember my own experience of not learning about Agile in any subject. I decided to incorporate basic concept of Scrum and agility into a course. Maybe one or two lessons like appeals, right? I make so many plays like Lego when you need to create a monster or something like that. I try to create the space to understand the scam. But this is the part of I don't be a real Scrum Master. Well, after that introduction, what do you say? In 2020, I got my first opportunity to officially become a Scrum Master. In that part of my life. I was working in PM in Telecom. Project Manager. Sorry, Project Manager in Telecom. I had to admit that transition from a more traditional management role to a Scrum Master was a radical change in my mindset.

[B]

Again, what were the biggest changes in your mind that happened from moving from Project Manager to Scrum Master?

[C]

First, now you are not a boss, you are a servant leader. It's the biggest changes, right? You need to be a facilitator. Not to say you need to do that or you need that time to finish that. You need to facilitator the team. You are another person, really. And you are another person. I learn about agility. I know a lot about agility, but not in the real life. That is the main thing. I understand that I can get more certification. I can, I don't know, read a lot of books. But if you are not working with that, you don't understand all the potential. And it's difficult because the theory is wonderful, right? But the experience change your think. For example, in that time, in my mind, say you need to do all that, the. The. The ceremony of all the time. But in the real life that happen that you don't. You don't do all the ceremonies maybe, or you are doing a Scrum, I don't know. But you need to improve it. You need to translate the agility to the team.

[B]

So what would be one thing that you would consider critical for people to understand? I'm sure a lot of project managers listening to this episode right now, and myself, I was a project manager once before as well. What do you think is maybe one lesson that you learned that really crystallized the difference between being a Project Manager and applying Scrum in practice for you?

[C]

I think that is empathize with the team. Maybe the Project manager don't empathize with the team, say, hey, we need that in that time run nothing else. You have all the things here because obviously if you work with Waterfall or something like that, you have all the things that you need to do. Then this is the first things that I started to change. I felt that if you need to implement Scrum in a team, it's like a big ban you implement right now. All the scrum and it's okay, but with the time with working with the different teams in different not just programmer team, right? In many teams you need to empathize with the team, understand what happened in this team, what happened with the people who worked in that team. This is for me is the first change that you need to in your mind.

[B]

That's a beautiful lesson. Empathize with the team. Mariano, thank you for sharing that with us.

[C]

Welcome.

[A]

Alright, I hope you liked this episode, but before you hit next episode, here's the deal. This podcast is powered by people like you, the members who wanted more than just inspiration. They wanted real tools and real connection to people who are practicing Agile. Every day we're talking access to over 700 hours of agile Gold, CTO level strategy talks, Summit keynotes, live workshops, E courses, Deep Dive interviews, books, and if you're into no Estimates, we got the pioneers of no Estimates in those Deep Dive interviews as well. Agile Business Intelligence, creating Product visions, coaching your product owner courses, you name it. You'll get invites to monthly live Q&As with agile pioneers and practitioners, plus a private Slack community which is free of all of that AI slop you see everywhere. And of course without the flame wars. It's a community of practitioners that want to learn and thrive together. It's the best place to connect with community and learn together. So if this podcast has helped you before, imagine what you will get from this podcast membership. So head on over to scrummastertoolbox.org membership and join the community that's shaping the future of Agile. We have so much for you, so check out all the [e-mail] membership because listening is great. It's important. But doing it together, that's next level. I'll see you in the community. Slack.

[B]

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