From Dogmatic Beginnings to Transformative Growth as a Scrum Master | Aliona Zapanovici

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches
Episode: From Dogmatic Beginnings to Transformative Growth as a Scrum Master | Alyona Zapanovici
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Alyona Zapanovici
Release Date: November 25, 2024

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte welcomes Alyona Zapanovici, an Agile Coach and Scrum Master from Moldova with a unique background in architecture. Alyona shares her journey from accidentally stepping into the Scrum Master role to evolving into a transformative leader, highlighting the challenges and lessons learned along the way.

Alyona’s Journey to Scrum Mastery

Accidental Entry into Scrum Master Role

Alyona describes her entry into the Scrum Master position as unplanned. Coming from an architectural background, she transitioned into IT driven by her passion. Initially unaware of the Scrum Master’s true essence, she likens her early experiences to navigating a foreign language.

“I stumbled into the Scrum Master role accidentally. You can call me the Accidental Scrum Master...”
[02:20]

Early Challenges and Learning Curve

Upon starting, Alyona found the technical jargon and processes within the IT company perplexing, akin to hearing a foreign language. Her initial role in the marketing department required her to collaborate closely with developers to create meaningful content.

“I called it Chinese.”
[02:26]

Realizing the gap between theoretical knowledge and practical application, Alyona proactively sought mentors and followed Agile thought leaders to bridge this gap.

“I began looking for mentors and following top voices on LinkedIn...”
[04:10]

Building Collaborative Relationships

Engaging with Technical Teams

Alyona emphasizes the importance of curiosity and humility in her role. By asking questions and seeking feedback, she fostered a collaborative environment with developers, enhancing both her understanding and the quality of marketing content.

“I am curious and I need help, I ask for help. But developers, they also want to help...”
[06:02]

Balancing Non-Technical and Technical Expertise

She highlights that many Scrum Masters come from diverse backgrounds and may not possess deep technical expertise. However, the key lies in leveraging curiosity and a willingness to learn to build strong relationships with technical teams.

Overcoming Initial Failures

Dogmatic Approach and Its Consequences

Alyona candidly shares her initial struggles as a Scrum Master, where her strict adherence to the Scrum Guide led to resistance from her team. She admits to bypassing the essential step of understanding her team’s unique dynamics and needs.

“I was quite dogmatic at first. I strictly followed the Scrum guide...”
[06:52]

Impact of Rigidity and Personal Challenges

Her insistence on following Scrum practices without adapting to her team’s context resulted in pushback and a sense of personal failure. This period was marked by a lack of trust and discomfort within the team.

“I wasn’t selling. Selling ice cream or pizza. I wasn't giving them what they wanted.”
[07:36]

Key Lessons Learned

From this experience, Alyona learned the critical importance of observation, listening, and creating a safe space for team members. She realized that challenging the status quo requires time, trust-building, and understanding the team’s perspective.

“I learned to step back and observe more, to listen first and speak later.”
[07:48]

Navigating Resistance and Adapting Strategies

Handling Pushback on Scrum Practices

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Alyona’s experience advocating for daily stand-ups despite resistance. Initially, her team questioned the necessity of daily meetings, indicating a lack of perceived value.

“They say, 'Why should we meet daily? It's not relevant, not important, not helping us.’”
[09:02]

Evolving Approach to Facilitation

In hindsight, Alyona describes how she would now approach such resistance by engaging the team in dialogue to uncover the underlying reasons for their reluctance. This involves observing the nature of existing meetings and determining whether they serve the intended purpose of synchronization and collaboration.

“I would ask the team, I would listen to them, I would ask them why...”
[10:01]

Emphasizing Team Autonomy and Relevance

She underscores the importance of ensuring that Scrum practices are meaningful and tailored to the team’s needs rather than enforcing them rigidly. This approach fosters genuine engagement and ownership among team members.

The Role of Mentorship and Community

Seeking Guidance and Shared Experiences

Alyona reflects on the value of mentorship in her growth as a Scrum Master. Initially navigating challenges alone, she later sought out mentors who shared their own experiences of similar struggles, reinforcing that she was not alone in her journey.

“I was mostly reading. And only later I started to look for mentorship...”
[11:36]

Building a Supportive Network

She emphasizes that connecting with other Scrum Masters and Agile coaches provides invaluable support and insights, helping practitioners navigate obstacles and refine their approaches.

“Hearing them reply that, well, this happened to me. And this happened to me, too.”
[12:15]

Conclusion and Takeaways

Alyona’s story is a testament to the transformative journey of a Scrum Master who evolves from a rigid, dogmatic approach to a more empathetic and adaptive leadership style. Her experiences highlight several key lessons:

1. Embrace Flexibility: While frameworks like Scrum provide structure, adapting to the team’s unique context is crucial.

2. Foster Open Communication: Creating a safe space for team members to express concerns and ideas builds trust and collaboration.

3. Seek Continuous Learning: Engaging with mentors and the broader Agile community enhances personal growth and effectiveness.

4. Prioritize Observation and Listening: Understanding the team’s dynamics and needs before implementing changes leads to more sustainable adoption of Agile practices.

Alyona’s journey underscores the importance of humility, curiosity, and adaptability in the role of a Scrum Master. Her willingness to learn from failures and seek support has not only shaped her into a more effective leader but also empowered the teams she works with to achieve their best.

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For more inspiring stories and actionable advice from Scrum Masters around the world, tune into the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, hosted by Vasco Duarte.

Transcript

[Vasco Duart]

Hi, I'm your host, Vasco Duart. Welcome to the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast where we share tips and tricks from Scrum Masters around the world. Every day we bring you inspiring answers to important questions that all Scrum Masters.

[Host]

Face day after day. Hello everybody. Welcome to one more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And this week, joining us from Moldova is Alyona Zapanovic. Hey, Alena, welcome to the show.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Hello, Pasco, Nice to meet you. To emit you and thank you for having me.

[Host]

Absolutely. It's a pleasure to meet you as well. So let me tell you all a little bit about Alyona. She's an Agile coach and Scrum Master with a background in architecture. I guess we are going to talk a little bit about architecture here, who transitioned to IT to pursue her passion. She values impactful contributions over years of experience balancing her roles as a coach, mentor and mother. She focuses on empowering teams and guiding individuals to achieve their best. So, Alena, that was a short intro, but tell us a little bit more about yourself and how did you end up becoming a Scrum Master with that architecture background of yours?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Well, I stumbled into the Scrum Master role accidentally. You can call me the Accidental Scrum Master. When I got into the role, I wasn't fully aware of what a Scrum Master really does and the essence of leadership without formal authority. And I started in the same company but in a different department. And as an employee, I always looked for feedback to improve my work and to focus on finding new ways to deliver better results. And I often found myself interested in work my colleagues were doing and wanted to learn more. It was an IT company to me. Their language seemed like a foreign language. I called it Chinese.

[Host]

Can you give, can you give me an example of what the things that sounded strange to you at the time?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Oh, it was everything. They were so focused and so it looked like it was very interesting for them to discuss some topics. They were working some challenges, but I literally understood nothing. It was, you know, those.

[Host]

So it was really like being in a, in a foreign country. Right. Like you see people and they're interacting like normal people, but you can't understand anything that is going on.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Yes, especially during lunch at the kitchen and at the water cooler talks. So I was very curious what they are talking about and I was asking them a lot of questions, especially about our products. I was in the marketing department so it was important for me to understand what they are working on and I even asked them and seek help from them from the developers. To collaboratively work with them and help me create content for our social media about our product. When I first started as Scrum Master, I had the theoretical knowledge only, but I quickly realized how different the reality of work is. That's when I began looking for mentors and following top voices on LinkedIn. I wanted to learn more, especially about common misconceptions and pitfalls other Scrum Masters faced.

[Host]

And this is what we do here exactly, on the podcast, Right? Like we're trying to share exactly what those common pitfalls are. One of the things that is interesting in your story, if you could tell us a little bit more about that, is that you needed to interact with engineers in your role as a marketing person in order to understand how to promote the product in your role as a marketing person. So how did that conversation go? Like, did you immediately feel already at that time that, hey, it would be good to work more with this people, or was there something that came later?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

No, it came right from the beginning. I understood that I literally need their help. It would be not possible to write something about, to describe our product without their inputs, without their knowledge. And so I asked for feedback, I gave them a script, a template, and they corrected me where needed, and we had the normal conversations. And that helped me a lot.

[Host]

And this, for me, I think, is a key dynamic for us as Scrum Masters. Because many Scrum Masters are not necessarily technical experts. They don't have a developer or tester background. They might have had other types of backgrounds. And one of the things that I think we bring to the teams is this sense of curiosity. And of course, at the same time, humility. Right. Like, we don't know all of these other things, but we want to help them succeed, help them achieve their goals. And I think that ability that you brought at the start, the beginner's mind is often how we refer to it, is incredibly useful in creating also a good relationship with the team.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Yes. And I think that works both ways. Because I am curious and I need help, I ask for help. But developers, they also want to help. They love what they are doing and they want to talk about it and to explain. To help you.

[Host]

Absolutely. Now, despite all of this helpfulness, not all of our actions go as we expect. And because today is Monday here on the podcast, the Fail Monday episode, as we call it, we want to explore one of those stories, Alena, that, you know, things just didn't go as you expected. We'll dive into the details and the takeaways later, but walk us through that story. Step by step.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

I'll be honest, my biggest failure came right at the beginning of my journey. I was quite dogmatic at first. I strictly followed the Scrum guide, insisting that everything be done exactly as it says. And while the guide provides a great structure, I quickly realized that the team wasn't ready for such a rigid approach. I completely skipped the observe the team part and didn't take the time to understand where they were coming from. Another mistake I made. Taking things way too personally. I felt like I was failing if the team wasn't immediately on board with what I said. You know the situation when you try to explain something, but people push back or disagree almost immediately. That was happening to me a lot. And I wasn't. I call it. I wasn't selling. Selling ice cream or pizza. I wasn't giving them what they wanted. I learned the hard way that challenging the status quo doesn't happen overnight. It requires building trust and creating a safe space where people feel comfortable speaking up. First, I had to understand why the team didn't feel safe. So from this experience, I learned to step back and observe more, to listen first and speak later. And it was a tough lesson, but it was crucial in shaping how I approach my role. Now.

[Host]

When you talk about challenging the status quo doesn't happen overnight, I think it's important for us to go a little bit deeper. Can you give us an example, like a concrete example of you wanting and of course, at that time, even bringing the dogma with you, right? You wanting them to do something and then resisting, how did that really show up at the time?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Well, if their response, for example, was, but we always did it other way, why should we change something? Why should we, for example, why should we meet daily? Why should we have this daily meeting? It's not relevant, not important, not helping us. And I think here it's important to understand why they find it not important, not helpful. Instead of following the Scrum Guide, which says that it's mandatory meeting and we should have it.

[Host]

So when you think about this these days, like, if you could go back and kind of relive that situation where you suggest, hey, we should really have a daily meeting, and people are saying, nah, why should we do it? We never needed it before. What do you do these days when you face that type of pushback or.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Resistance, I would ask the team, I would listen to them, I would ask them why. I would observe how they are facilitating these daily meetings. What is this? Is this a synchronizing meeting? Is this a planning meeting? Or is a reporting status meeting. Because if they are there only because it's mandatory and it doesn't help them, well, we guess they are, right.

[Host]

Absolutely. It's the old phrase, right? Whether we. Whether you believe you can or whether you believe you cannot, you are always right. And if people think that the daily doesn't help, then it really doesn't help. Right. We need to find other ways to bring up what the daily is there to do, which is to give this regular synchronization and collaboration space for the team members to help each other. That was a great story, and I can totally see how humbling it must have been when you were first of all, of course, coming from a different background and joining a team and then trying to give them what you already knew was the right thing, like the daily meeting. But you started to kind of receive that pushback. And how did you do at the time? Did you already have a mentor at the time and you kind of had kind of processed this type of events with the mentor? Or how did you get over this resistance yourself personally?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

No, not yet. I was all by myself and I, at that time, I was mostly reading. And only later I started to look for mentorship for people to ask them, how did you do in this? How did you act in this situation? And it was very, very nice to hear them reply that, well, this happened to me. And this happened to me, too. And I wasn't the only one.

[Host]

Yeah, absolutely. Because that is the truth. We are not the only ones. Just as Alena so eloquently described in her story today. Alena, thank you very much for sharing all of that with us, and we'll see you tomorrow.

[Vasco Duart]

Monday is about what we learned from our obstacles and our failures. But tomorrow is Team Tuesday. Here on the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast, we explore teams and their journeys, the habits they developed that threatened their performance, how each of our guests helped their teams evolve, and the one key lesson they learned from that experience. We really hope you liked our show, and if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes. Share this podcast and let other Scrum Masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that sharing is caring.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Sa.