From Evangelist to Facilitator—How To Lead A Successful Company Merger | Mariano Gontchar

Summary

Podcast Summary: "From Evangelist to Facilitator—How To Lead A Successful Company Merger"

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile storytelling from the trenches
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Mariano Gontchar
Release Date: September 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the challenges and lessons learned by Mariano Gontchar, an experienced Scrum Master, during a major company merger. Mariano shares a candid story of how shifting from an evangelist mindset to a facilitator approach was critical in overcoming cultural and process barriers. The discussion offers actionable insights for Scrum Masters facing organizational change, particularly when integrating disparate teams and cultures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context: The Merger and Its Human Challenges

[01:54]

• Mariano recalls being a Scrum Master in a telecom company amid a merger of two organizations with distinct cultures, tools, and processes:
  • Challenge: "It was chaos...team from two different companies with their own culture, their own tools and their own process. It was a chaos then we have to give the mission to lead the Agile transition to this group." (Mariano, 01:54)
  • The technical talent was strong, but the real barrier was a "people mindset" shift.

2. Early Mistake: Selling Theory, Not Listening

[03:07]

• Mariano describes an initial error: focusing on promoting the theory of Scrum rather than engaging stakeholders in practical solutions.
  • Quote: "My initial mistake...I was trying to sell the theory instead of benefit, right? And so I was so focused on the what of the scrum ceremonies...that forgot about why." (Mariano, 03:07)

3. The Pivot: From Evangelist to Facilitator

[04:00]

• Upon recognizing resistance, Mariano transformed his approach:
  • He moved from advocating process to facilitating conversations—helping people articulate real, present challenges (e.g., delivery delays, lack of communication).
  • Action: Mariano asked, "What are the biggest hesitate right now?" and listened to managers and team members.
  • This pivot was crucial: "Instead of being a SCRUM evangelistic, I have to become a facilitator conversation." (Mariano, 04:14)

4. Solution Experiment: Pilot Team & Custom Practices

[05:00]

• Mariano proposed experimenting with a single team ("pilot team") to address concrete issues and build bridges between company cultures.
  • They custom-tailored ceremonies (e.g., special daily standup and retrospectives) rather than rigidly following the Scrum playbook:
    • "With this small team we started to create a special daily scam and retrospective at the end of the week...start to create a team, but a real team. Between two companies." (Mariano, 05:24)
  • The focus was on fostering genuine communication and trust.

5. Demonstrating Value: Team Success as Proof

[06:23]

• Instead of 'convincing' with arguments, Mariano had the improved team directly show leaders their progress.
  • "The team are convincing the leader right now. And this is wonderful. I just facilitate the communication." (Mariano, 06:37)
  • Leaders were swayed by demonstrated, tangible improvements—not theory.

6. Broader Lessons: Gradual Change vs Big Bang

[07:40]

• Mariano shares strong preference for gradual, iterative change over "Big Bang" transformations:
  • Quote: "Maybe you don't need to apply all the things that the Scrums say. But first you need to identify the real problem. Don't sell the solution. Understand what happened in the team..." (Mariano, 07:41)
  • He notes gradual change allows people time to adapt; piloting in small groups creates organic examples for others to follow.
• Host Vasco highlights the alternative viewpoint but agrees the facilitator mindset is powerful:
  • "When you focus on a problem that everybody wants to solve and instead of trying to push the process, you just help them solve it...you become the facilitator, as you said. And it's powerful at all levels..." (Vasco, 09:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Resistance:
  "The biggest change wasn't the technology, it was the people mindset." (Mariano, 02:39)

• On Changing Approach:
  "Instead of being a SCRUM evangelistic, I have to become a facilitator conversation." (Mariano, 04:14)

• On Facilitation:
  "I just facilitate the communication. Maybe you don't need to apply all the things that the Scrums say. But first you need to identify the real problem. Don't sell the solution. Understand what happened in the team..." (Mariano, 06:37 / 07:41)

• On Gradual Change:
  "My experience, gradual change is wonderful because you give the time to the people to adapt the new idea." (Mariano, 08:41)

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Timeline of Important Segments

• [01:54] – Mariano sets the stage: merger context and cultural friction
• [03:07] – Early lesson on the limits of theory-based persuasion
• [04:14] – The shift from evangelist to facilitator and first steps to listening
• [05:24] – The pilot team experiment and tailored practices
• [06:23] – Teams show real value to leaders, gaining trust
• [07:41] – Emphasizing gradual change over big bang transformation
• [09:15] – Host’s reflection on problem-solving and facilitation as keys to Agile

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Takeaways for Scrum Masters and Change Leaders

• Focus first on the concrete, shared problems teams and managers care about—not on process or terminology.
• Facilitation and listening trump 'evangelizing' when there's cultural resistance or change fatigue.
• Allow for gradual adoption and experimentation; pilot teams can model new ways of working and convert skeptics organically.
• Demonstrated team outcomes ("pull") are often more persuasive than theoretical arguments ("push").
• Customize Agile practices to fit context and needs, rather than rigidly enforcing frameworks.

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This episode is an essential listen for anyone leading change across merged organizations, especially when culture and skepticism are the main obstacles. Mariano Gontchar’s story is a potent reminder: connect at the human level, facilitate real solutions, and let results speak for themselves.

Transcript

[A]

Hey there, agile adventurer, just a quick question. What if for the price of a fancy coffee or half a pizza, you could unlock over 700 hours of the best agile content on the planet? That's audio, video, E courses, books, presentations, all that you can think of. But you can also join live calls with world class practitioners and hang out in a flame war free and AI slop clean slack with the sharpest minds in the game. Oh, and yes, you get direct access to me, Vasko, your Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. No, this is not a drill. It's this Scrum Master Toolbox membership. And it's your unfair advantage in the agile world. So if you want to know more, go check out scrummastertoolbox.org membership. That's scrummastertoolbox.org Membership. And check out all the goodies we have for you. Do it now. But if you're not doing it now, let's listen to the podcast.

[B]

Hello everybody. Welcome to our Wednesday the Change Leadership episode this week with Mariano Concar. Hey Mariano, welcome back.

[C]

Hello.

[B]

So Wednesday is the change process and you know there are all kinds of change processes from individual to organization to team change processes. So tell us one of those stories and walk us through through how you went about helping bring change to that system. What were the practices, the tips, the tools, the tricks you learned at that time that you still apply today?

[C]

In that part of my life, I was a Scrum master in telecom group too. The company was in the middle of a merge. They were team from two different companies with their own culture, their own tools and their own process. It was a chaos then we have to give the mission to lead the Agile transition to this group. It was difficult. Many developers and managers, we are very attached today, all process and each process, right. Because one part of the company say one culture and another culture. The biggest change wasn't the technology, it was the people mindset. This is difficult to understand in that point technical are so good. The people really, really good in technical. But the mindset change. I remember the meeting with the leaders on one of the merch company. They very skeptical. They said the child wasn't just a fad or the process and always work. I tried to convince the theory. This is my my first error in when I started to work with that because I thought that well, the theory that is wonderful. But the resistance was very strong in him. My initial mistake I say that I was trying to sell the theory instead of benefit, right? And so I was so focused on the what of the scrum ceremonies. Artifact, etc. That forgot about why I realized that I have to change my approach. Instead of being a SCRUM evangelistic, I have to become a facilitator conversation. My new strategy was sit down with them and ask what are the biggest hesitate right now? We started to talk about the real problems. Delivery. Delivery delays, the lack of communication between teams. Whatever happened in that. In. In that reunion, they start to. I start to understand which is the real problem with that they. They have. Then I say okay, let me give you some moment. Our solution. Give me a team. And we start with them with different. Doing something different. For example, I start to. Obviously it's not. Again, it's not the theory of Scrum, right? You believe that the team needed in that case, with this small team we started to create a special daily scam and retrospective at the end of the week. With that we start to transform. We start to create a team, but a real team. Between two companies. Our team emerged and it's work. Start to working. Start to create something. Start to getting better communication between them. And that is wonderful because I don't do it a wonderful thing. But I try to connect to people. I communicate. The communication improved. The problems were solved faster because they are communicated. They need that part.

[B]

So you were kind of bringing people from two different companies together into one team. And then instead of focusing on Scrum or Agile, you focused on that problem that the managers had named and tried to solve that problem, that delivery problem, whatever that was with the team members without talking about process, but rather focusing on solving that problem. Right?

[C]

Yeah, exactly. That is the real transformation. Just that they start working and one day I say okay, come on, show them. Sorry, show the situation to the leaders. I say and then they go to a reunion and say we have this and we have that. We improved. In that case, they show you the improvements. I can't convince all the leader. The team are convincing the leader right now. And this is wonderful. I just facilitate the communication. Maybe you don't need to apply all the things that the Scrums say. But first you need to identify the real problem. Don't sell the solution. Understand what happened in the team and applicate maybe not all the manual of Scrum or Kanban or whatever that you want. Try to understand the problem. In that case, start with a pilot team, maybe a small part of the organization. But if you start to work this team, maybe this team contribute to better another part of the structure. And the structure. Try to understand that this way is better than the older way that they working. Oh, sorry about the gradual change and big bang change. I feel, I don't know, maybe I have problems in the past, but many companies say we need to applicate a big ban all together. Working in Scrum right now, I feel that it doesn't work because you have a lot of people that say I don't like doesn't work. It's just a moment. But if you graduate, change, you started a team by team. My experience, my experience. No, maybe not all, I am the boss about that, but my experience, gradual change is wonderful because you give the time to the people to adapt the new idea.

[B]

And I like that contrast. Now, I'm not of the same opinion. I believe that big bang can work, but it doesn't always work. I really want to highlight that perspective that you shared, which is this idea that when you focus on a problem that everybody wants to solve and instead of trying to push the process, you just help them solve it, right? Like you become the facilitator, as you said. And that's very powerful. And it's powerful at all levels, right? At the manager level, at the team level, and even when we work with individuals themselves, right? Like if we help them solve a problem they already care about, we just need to help them figure out what's the next step and they'll naturally converge towards a way of working that is agile. Because they are, as the saying goes, inspecting and adapting. Right?

[C]

Yeah. It's a great resume. About my talk.

[B]

Absolutely. Mariano, it was a pleasure. Thank you for sharing that story with us.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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