Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: "From Permission-Seeking to Forgiveness-Begging—Agile Team Evolution in Self-Management" with Bernie Maloney

Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Bernie Maloney
Date: September 11, 2025

Episode Overview

In this lively Success Thursday episode, Vasco Duarte welcomes back agile coach and Scrum Master Bernie Maloney for a deep dive into what meaningful success looks like for Agile teams and their facilitators. The conversation explores Bernie’s favorite retrospective formats and unpacks the practical evolution of teams from needing direction, to seeking permission, and ultimately, to self-management. The focus is on helping Scrum Masters foster an environment where teams expand their influence, experiment, and drive relentless improvement.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bernie's Favorite Retrospective Formats ([01:20]–[04:59])

• Sailboat Retrospective:
  • Bernie prefers the simplicity of the sailboat format, focusing on "above the waterline, below the waterline" rather than complicating it with anchors, islands, and seagulls.
  • He credits a team manager in Shenzhen with adding a Likert pain scale (smiley faces) to the sailboat to emphasize the intensity of team feelings, greatly enhancing retrospective clarity.
  • Quote — Bernie Maloney ([02:18]):
    "That simple emoticon really gets people to understand the intensity of stuff that's there in a sailboat."
• What the Duck & LEGO Serious Play:
  • Drawing from the "Strategic Play and the Creative Facilitator’s Guide," Bernie recommends playful, hands-on formats like "What the Duck" using an eight-brick LEGO kit.
  • Physical activities help dissociate strong emotions, making it easier for team members to discuss challenging issues.
  • Quote — Bernie Maloney ([03:32]):
    "By creating an object outside of yourself and then talking about it, you're able to...step into that third position and see the whole situation."
• Creative Show & Tell:
  • Another creative tool is asking team members to sketch their thoughts or build physical representations (with LEGO, for example), and then explain them to the group.
  • Bernie finds show-and-tell formats powerful for surfacing information in retrospectives.

2. Defining Success as a Scrum Master ([05:49]–[09:09])

• Success is enabling teams to thrive—even during challenges—by fostering self-direction and sustainable autonomy.
• Early Indicators:
  • Bernie teaches facilitation techniques like thumb voting (roman voting) and observes when teams independently adopt them, signaling self-direction.
  • Quote — Bernie Maloney ([06:27]):
    "When they come up for, they've got to do some decisions and they start organically on their own without me facilitating it...that's a clue to me that they're starting to become self directed."
• The Evolution to Self-Management:
  • Bernie wants teams to move from waiting for instructions, to seeking permission, and ideally to “begging forgiveness”—acting proactively within understood constraints.
• Diana Larson’s "Circles and Soup":
  • Used to coach teams on the concepts of control, influence, and adaptation to external factors.
  • Teams map what they control, what they influence, and what they have to accept, gradually expanding their locus of influence over time.
  • Quote — Bernie Maloney ([07:34]):
    "Part of our job is to coach those teams, to expand those circles, to get them to recognize that they've got more control than they thought they did."
• Coaching Managers:
  • Bernie highlights the need to also coach managers, especially those rooted in command-and-control leadership, towards creating "boundaries of safety" for teams to take risks and grow.
  • Quote — Bernie Maloney ([08:13]):
    "Another part of my success is getting those managers to start to expand those boundaries and then start to coach the teams instead of direct the teams."

3. Pragmatic Tools for Continuous Team Progress ([09:09]–[11:13])

• Observation & Retrospectives:
  • Mapping influence circles regularly in retrospectives helps teams visualize and track their growing influence and ownership.
  • Quote — Vasco Duarte ([09:09]):
    "If we do that at a regular interval in the retrospectives...is the team believing that their domain of influence has grown or are they not?"
• Building a Backlog of Improvements:
  • Bernie emphasizes the importance of maintaining an "improvement backlog"—a prioritized list of organizational impediments—and focusing relentlessly on resolving the top issue.
  • Momentum is critical; teams must see systemic changes resulting from their input to avoid falling into "process theater" or disengagement.
  • Quote — Bernie Maloney ([10:28]):
    "If nothing changes, your team is going to get depressed. They're going to feel like this is just process theater and why are we doing it?"

4. The Goal: Relentless Improvement ([11:14]–[11:24])

• Building on the earlier points, both host and guest advocate for a culture of "relentless improvement," ensuring feedback leads to real action and nurtures optimism and growth.
  • Quote — Vasco Duarte ([11:14]):
    "They get to this point of relentless improvement...a beautiful, beautiful phrase."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative retrospectives:
  Bernie Maloney ([03:32]):
  "Using Legos is a great way to get your teams talking...you're able to, like we talked about yesterday, Vasco, step into that third position and see the whole situation."

• On observing team self-direction:
  Bernie Maloney ([06:27]):
  "That's a clue to me that they're starting to become self directed. I can actually back off."

• On expanding circles of influence:
  Bernie Maloney ([07:34]):
  "Part of our job is to coach those teams, to expand those circles, to get them to recognize that they've got more control than they thought they did."

• On tackling systemic impediments:
  Bernie Maloney ([10:28]):
  "Surface all the things that are getting in the team's way, but put them in an improvement backlog and focus on only one thing...If nothing changes, your team is going to get depressed."

Important Timestamps

• 01:20 – Bernie introduces his favorite retrospective formats.
• 05:49 – Definition of success as a Scrum Master.
• 07:34 – Discussion of "Circles and Soup" for expanding team influence.
• 09:09 – Concrete methods for tracking team's area of control.
• 10:28 – Importance of improvement backlog and avoiding process theater.
• 11:14 – The concept of relentless improvement.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Success for an Agile coach or Scrum Master is not in perpetual presence but in building capable, self-directed teams and managers who support continuous improvement.
• Simple, creative retrospectives foster honest conversations and break down emotional barriers.
• Regularly mapping and expanding team influence is crucial for motivation and organizational change.
• Focus relentlessly on resolving top issues raised in retrospectives to maintain momentum and prevent disengagement.
• Coaching extends beyond the team—empowering managers to support, not dictate, unlocks further organizational agility.

For more creative retrospective formats, check out Bernie's YouTube channel.
Relevant books: "Strategic Play and the Creative Facilitator’s Guide" and Diana Larson’s work.