From Project Mindset to Product Thinking - Leading Client Transformation | Anh Vu

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches

Episode: From Project Mindset to Product Thinking - Leading Client Transformation | Aang Vu

Release Date: July 23, 2025

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Roscoe welcomes Aang Vu, an experienced Agile Coach, to discuss the transformative journey from a traditional project mindset to a modern product-oriented approach. The conversation delves into real-world challenges, strategic shifts, and actionable techniques that Agile practitioners can apply to lead successful client transformations.

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Context and Initial Challenges

Aang Vu begins by sharing his recent experience with a client focused on building e-commerce platforms. Initially, projects were treated as isolated endeavors, each with its own set of requirements, design, implementation, and delivery phases. However, after completing several projects, it became evident that many components of these e-commerce sites were repetitive and could be standardized for reuse.

Aang Vu [01:54]: "After a few projects, we identified that quite a chunk of those sites are similar and could be reusable."

This realization highlighted inefficiencies in the existing approach, particularly concerning maintenance and scalability. The traditional project-based methodology led to redundant efforts, especially when introducing new features like address management, payment processing, or customer tracking across multiple sites.

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Shifting to a Component-Driven, Reusable Approach

To address these challenges, Aang and his team proposed a shift towards a design system—a component-driven framework that allows for the reuse of standardized elements across different projects. This approach not only streamlined the development process but also significantly reduced future maintenance efforts.

Aang Vu [04:25]: "We initiated the conversation to build the internal design system that allows us to invest for the long term."

By adopting a design system, the team could develop core components once and integrate them into subsequent projects, ensuring consistency and reducing duplication of work. This strategic pivot laid the foundation for a more sustainable and scalable development process.

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From Project Mindset to Product Thinking

Transitioning from a project-centric to a product-oriented mindset was pivotal in this transformation. Aang emphasized the importance of viewing each project not just as an isolated task but as part of a larger ecosystem—a cohesive platform that supports multiple products and services.

Aang Vu [06:33]: "We learned that it's not always about building new things and finishing them; it's about fitting those things into a base system to maintain the business together."

This holistic perspective encourages long-term thinking and fosters a culture where reuse and scalability are prioritized. By integrating new products into an overarching platform, the organization can better manage resources, streamline workflows, and enhance overall efficiency.

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Convincing Stakeholders: Building a Case for Long-Term Investment

One of the significant hurdles in this transformation was persuading business stakeholders to invest time and resources into long-term strategies instead of focusing solely on immediate project deliverables. Aang outlined several strategies used to gain stakeholder buy-in:

1. Identifying Patterns and Problems: The team meticulously analyzed existing projects to identify repetitive patterns and inefficiencies.

2. Researching Industry Best Practices: They studied how other organizations addressed similar challenges, strengthening their case with proven methodologies.

3. Presenting Real Artifacts: Demonstrating actual components and reusable elements from completed projects provided tangible evidence of the proposed approach's viability.

4. Highlighting Long-Term Benefits: By showcasing how a design system would save time and resources in future projects, Aang effectively communicated the value of the investment.

Aang Vu [07:09]: "We showed that it's not only the theory or concept. We identified the real work we did together and then suggested accommodating reusable components for future projects."

These efforts culminated in securing stakeholder support, as the evidence-based approach resonated with their goals of scalability and efficiency.

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Outcomes and Lessons Learned

The transition to a product-oriented approach yielded substantial benefits for the client:

• Enhanced Efficiency: Reusable components reduced development time for new projects.
• Consistency Across Products: Standardized elements ensured a uniform user experience across different platforms.
• Scalability: The organization could easily expand its portfolio without proportionally increasing resource allocation.
• Sustainable Maintenance: Centralized components simplified ongoing maintenance and updates.

Aang reflected on the importance of structured conversations and evidence-based persuasion in driving organizational change.

Aang Vu [09:49]: "It's not only for the technical team, but also for the business as well."

This holistic approach ensured that both technical and business teams were aligned towards common long-term objectives, fostering a collaborative environment conducive to continuous improvement.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Aang Vu provides a compelling narrative of how shifting from a project-centric to a product-oriented mindset can drive significant efficiency and scalability improvements within an organization. By leveraging design systems and fostering long-term thinking, Agile practitioners can lead transformative changes that benefit both technical and business stakeholders.

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Key Takeaways

• Identify Repetitive Patterns: Analyze existing projects to uncover opportunities for standardization and reuse.
• Adopt Design Systems: Implement component-driven frameworks to enhance consistency and efficiency.
• Promote Long-Term Thinking: Encourage a product-oriented mindset to build scalable and maintainable systems.
• Evidence-Based Persuasion: Use real artifacts and industry best practices to gain stakeholder buy-in.
• Foster Collaboration: Align technical and business teams towards shared long-term goals for sustained success.

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Notable Quotes

• Aang Vu [01:54]: "After a few projects, we identified that quite a chunk of those sites are similar and could be reusable."
• Aang Vu [04:25]: "We initiated the conversation to build the internal design system that allows us to invest for the long term."
• Aang Vu [06:33]: "We learned that it's not always about building new things and finishing them; it's about fitting those things into a base system to maintain the business together."
• Aang Vu [07:09]: "We showed that it's not only the theory or concept. We identified the real work we did together and then suggested accommodating reusable components for future projects."
• Aang Vu [09:49]: "It's not only for the technical team, but also for the business as well."

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This episode serves as a valuable resource for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches aiming to lead effective transformations within their organizations by fostering a product-centric approach and leveraging reusable design systems for long-term success.

Transcript

[Vasco]

Hey there Agile adventurer, just a quick question. What if for the price of a fancy coffee or half a pizza, you could unlock over 700 hours of the best agile content on the planet? That's audio, video, E courses, books, presentations, all that you can think of. But you can also join live calls with world class practitioners and hang out in a flame war free and AI slop clean slack with the sharpest minds in the game. Oh, and yes, you get direct access to me, Vasko, your Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. No, this is not a drill. It's this Scrum Master Toolbox membership. And it's your unfair advantage in the agile world. So if you want to know more, go check out scrummastertoolbox.org membership. That's scrummastertoolbox.org Membership. And check out all the goodies we have for you. Do it now. But if you're not doing it now, let's listen to the podcast.

[Aang Vu]

Hello everybody.

[Roscoe]

Welcome to our Wednesday the Change Leadership episode this week with Aang Vu. Hey Aang, welcome back.

[Aang Vu]

Yep. Hi Vasco.

[Roscoe]

So Change Leadership is the topic for today and on Wednesdays we want to explore our experience and of course our lessons learned in processes of change or transformation. So Aang, share with us that story, give us a little bit about the context and then walk us through the steps of that change process. And as you go through those steps, highlight for us the tools, the tips, the tricks and the techniques you learned back then that you still apply today.

[Aang Vu]

Yep. I would like to start with my recent customer when we helped them to building the e commerce site to selling stuff online and we had a few projects with that client at the beginning. We approach those projects as the independent one. Like we gather requirements for that project, we analyze, we design the solution, implement, and then we hand over that final site to the client and then we build a site. And after a few projects we identified that quite a chunky part of those sites are similar and could be reusable. And for example, like for the ecommerce site, we always have the address, search, personal details from the customer, the payment, the tracking and the rating. And there should be a different way to approach the delivery. So we should not only deliver the individual projects with individual site, but we should also be a more kind of component driving way to reusable those pieces within the site. And we initiate the conversation to build the internal design system that allow us to invest for the long term. When we build those components for the first site, it can be easily to reuse for the future. Site and saving the effort for building the future site and also the maintenance effort. And later on, whenever we build a new project, we always evangelize that concept of building the reusable components. And we start forming the platform to optimize the way we build inside. And from the beginning, the business like the stakeholder, not really understand that they always thinking about the project where they have something, they have new idea, they want to finish that as early as possible and then they can continue the next idea. But in the long time, if we have like five, seven sites, it could not be easy to maintain in the long run. First of all, if they want to introduce one chain, they need to replicate that like seven or eight times. So it's not effective. And so that idea. So we need to share with them and start from the process for them to understand and also try to get some good example somewhere else. They already adopt that mindset from project to product. So they're not always thinking about like, we will do something new and then we finish that.

[Roscoe]

You started talking about them about that concept that translates transitioning from project to product is that was that kind of the first step, if you will, of trying to get them to understand the benefits?

[Aang Vu]

Yeah, the first thing is we identify the patterns and we. We saw some problems and also opportunities there. And then we also need to research like in the industries out there, someone else should have the similar problem. Like, and then we start knowing the concept about design system. Like they try to build the component driver of the website. And then they plug all those components into the new site. And then they have the first site and the second side and the first site. But the second side and the first site can reuse a lot from the first site. And it is the first concept design system. And we try to learn from that. And we also try to introduce that with the Internet circular as well. And the second concept about project to product, we also like sharing the concept that in the long term, all the business need to kind of based on the internal platform to succeed for the long run. And they not simply finish the first product and then keep it there and build the next product. But we should really have thinking about the way we structure those products together into the big system and in the big platform. And then we can maintain all of them together and saving the effort to develop the new one. So it is the step we go through. So we see the problem, we see the pattern, and then we research whether someone else already we know the optimal way to solve that problem. And then we try to Adopt that concept to our context. So the two concepts we learned from this situation is the design system and about the thinking model from project. Not always we build new things, we finish that, we build the next thing. But also we think about the long term product. We build things, but we try to fit that things into the base system and then we can maintain the business together. The platform for the business to not only like success with one or two or three product, but for the future product as well.

[Roscoe]

Of course the difficult thing is to get the business people convinced that investing in the long term is actually a good idea. Right. Because as you said, they want this project done right now. They don't want to focus on, you know, maybe the benefits down the line. So how did that conversation go? How so you presented some models, you talked about the opportunity, you talked about the problem, you talked about this concept of moving from projects to products. But what else did you do to try to bring the benefit, the value to your client?

[Aang Vu]

Yeah, we also need to show the real artifacts because we already built a few projects for them. And we also show the evidence that hey, it is not only the theory or concept. We identify the real work we do each other and then we identify those earlier. It's very like similar and should be reusable, should be like one piece of code to reuse between across site. It should not be something like individual product or individual site to deliver. So we based on the actual artifact we have with the client and then we suggest that from the next product we will try to kind of accommodate the component that can be reused for the second product. We only like spend a bit more time for the first product to do that and then the benefit we will see right in the second product and it also the trade off the business need to make and our job as a SM or the technical team, we need to show that opportunity. We show the pros and cons and we will see how much or how benefit the business will get from that or just try to optimize for the whole. It's not only for the technical team, but also for the business as well.

[Roscoe]

How did that conversation go? Like how, how easy or difficult was it to present these ideas and get their feedback and ultimately acceptance because it is an investment that needs to be done as you said.

[Aang Vu]

Yeah, I think it's also a bit lucky for me at that point, like our business people, they are also like open with that and actually when we show all the evidence that it is the like good trend that already be adopted in many other place and it's also like with the real artifact or the fact we have with the existing site. So a lot of that should be reusable, should be combined to have the core components and to have the core service that provide for all the site. So they also get by into that direction because it should be the way because the ambitious is we have a lot of that kind of product or site to deliver. So there should be the better way to do that. If we keep doing that, we need to scale like becoming a lot of team to deliver all those backlog. But now if we can reusable, we only invest the first time and then it will be saving for the future. So it's kind of going green as well for the business. It's not only for the technical team.

[Roscoe]

Absolutely. And it's really important to also structure these conversations. Right. Like it's not just oh, we have this great idea, but in fact, as you said, to actually bring the evidence from past projects, for example, and show the evidence like really work to of course gain their trust in the end. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Great story. Thank you for sharing that with us, Ayn.

[Aang Vu]

Yep, thanks, Roscoe.

[Vasco]

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[Roscoe]

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[Vasco]

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