Helping Agile Teams Be Passionate About Their Products, A Product Owner Superpower | Aliona Zapanovici

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches
Episode: Helping Agile Teams Be Passionate About Their Products, A Product Owner Superpower | Aliona Zapanovici
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Aliona Zapanovici
Release Date: November 29, 2024

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1. Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in a compelling discussion with Aliona Zapanovici, an experienced Agile Coach and Certified Product Owner. The conversation delves into the pivotal role of Product Owners in Agile teams, exploring both the challenges and the strengths that define successful Product Ownership.

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2. The Pitfalls of Proxy Product Owners

Aliona begins by sharing a challenging experience involving a proxy Product Owner (PO). She emphasizes the critical need for POs to possess decision-making authority and accountability.

[01:11] Aliona Zapanovici: "A product owner must have the authority to make decisions and be accountable for those decisions."

In this scenario, the organization opted for a proxy PO due to time constraints, which inadvertently led to confusion and uncertainty within the team. The lack of genuine authority resulted in the team frequently questioning the finality of decisions and the alignment with stakeholder expectations.

[02:40] Vasco Duarte: "This uncertainty created a lot of pressure and frustration within the team and to handle this, I encourage the proxy PO to engage more actively with stakeholders and to be better prepared for questions from developers."

Aliona highlights that such situations often lead to wasted efforts and diminished team morale, underscoring the anti-patterns that emerge when POs lack proper authority.

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3. The Importance of Authority and Decision-Making

Vasco probes deeper into whether the proxy PO was prepared to take ownership despite the lack of formal authority.

[03:41] Vasco Duarte: "If they feel ownership over what they are doing, if they feel that they are contributing value, that they will be able to make decisions and then sell those decisions forward to stakeholders."

Aliona confirms that in her experience, the absence of granted authority was a significant barrier. Even with the best intentions, without organizational support for the PO's decision-making power, the role becomes ineffective.

[04:32] Aliona Zapanovici: "It's really important because a lot of effort is wasted in this."

This segment underscores the necessity for organizations to empower Product Owners fully to prevent operational inefficiencies and team disillusionment.

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4. Traits of Effective Product Owners

Transitioning to positive experiences, Aliona describes the qualities of an exemplary Product Owner she has worked with:

• Decision-Making Authority: Facilitates forward momentum without unnecessary delays.
• Product and Market Understanding: Guides prioritization and informed decision-making.
• Trust in the Team: Encourages a collaborative environment where team members feel valued.
• Collaborative Decision-Making: Involves the team in decisions, fostering innovation and ownership.

[06:30] Aliona Zapanovici: "A great product owner has decision-making authority, a deep understanding of the product, trusts the team and has a collaborative approach to decision making."

Vasco expands on this by linking these traits to the team's sense of ownership and pride, which are essential for developing passion for the product.

[09:23] Aliona Zapanovici: "When the product owner trusts the developers and listens to them, even if the product owner delegates some of the tasks, they still remain accountable for the overall results."

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5. Fostering Team Ownership and Passion

A significant portion of the discussion centers on how Product Owners can cultivate a deep connection between the team and the product. Aliona shares a powerful practice:

[09:47] Aliona Zapanovici: "One of the questions I ask my team members is when you look at our product, how much of you do you see there? How much of you do you see there. And it's really important for them to have an answer, to know exactly where they contributed."

This reflective question helps team members recognize their personal contributions, reinforcing their sense of ownership and emotional investment in the product's success.

Vasco echoes the importance of this approach, noting that without such connections, teams risk becoming "shopping list managers" who merely execute tasks without meaningful engagement.

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6. Negotiation and Co-Creation

Later in the episode, Aliona touches upon the balance between predictability and flexibility within Agile teams. She emphasizes the role of negotiation in achieving co-creation:

[10:51] Aliona Zapanovici: "We expect the developers to make commitments and we want them to be predictable. We want a high predictability. But it's very important for the product owner or the team in general to negotiate, to understand the healthy part of negotiation, what can be done, what can we done in this sprint."

Vasco reinforces this by highlighting that negotiation is a cornerstone of co-creation, enabling teams to collaboratively define what is achievable within a sprint while maintaining respect for each other's contributions.

[11:23] Vasco Duarte: "Negotiation is again, part of co-creation that we've talked about several times this week."

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7. Conclusion and Takeaways

As the conversation wraps up, Vasco and Aliona reiterate the key attributes of successful Product Owners:

• Empowered Authority: Ensures decisive and accountable leadership.
• Collaborative Mindset: Fosters team engagement and innovation.
• Trust and Respect: Builds a motivated and valued team environment.
• Reflective Practices: Encourages team members to see their impact on the product.

Aliona shares her contact information for listeners interested in furthering their Agile journey, while Vasco invites listeners to join their membership site for exclusive content and community engagement.

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides valuable insights into the vital role of Product Owners in nurturing passionate and effective Agile teams. By highlighting both the challenges and the best practices, Aliona Zapanovici offers actionable advice for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches aiming to enhance their team dynamics and product outcomes.

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Find Aliona Zapanovici and continue the conversation on LinkedIn.

For more episodes and Agile insights, visit scrummasterpodcast.com.

Transcript

[Vasco Duart]

Hi, I'm your host, Vasco Duart. Welcome to the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast where we share tips and tricks from Scrum Masters around the world. Every day we bring you inspiring answers to important questions that all Scrum Masters.

[Unknown Host]

Face day after day. Hello everybody. Welcome to our TGIF and product owner episode this week with Alyona Zapanovic. Hey Alyona, welcome back.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Hello Vasco, how are you?

[Unknown Host]

Oh, thank you for asking. Happy Friday everybody. And happy Friday to you too, Alyona. I'm good. And I'm happy to have the conversation about product owners with you today. Of course, everybody wants to know what makes a great and successful product owner. But as we know, we also need to be able to detect what doesn't work and be mindful of that and learn how to go around that or even overcome that anti pattern. So let's start there. Alyona, share with us what might have been potentially the worst product owner anti pattern you've witnessed in your career.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Yes, one of the toughest situations I faced with a product owner was dealing with a cpo. A product owner must have the authority to make decisions and be accountable for those decisions. But unfortunately, due to lack of time, as it always happens, the organization decided to use a proxy PO instead. And this decision led to significant problems. Because the proxy PO didn't have the real decision making power, it caused confusion and uncertainty. In our meetings, the team often wondered if the decisions being made would be final or if we we'd have to redo work later. We frequently heard questions like can we trust that this is the final version and are the stakeholders on board with this? This uncertainty created a lot of pressure and frustration within the team and to handle this, I encourage the proxy PO to engage more actively with stake stakeholders and to be better prepared for questions from developers. However, it was still quite challenging and it really highlights how essential it is for appeal to have that real decision making authority and accountability.

[Unknown Host]

Without this One of the things, I was just going to ask you a follow up question. Sorry about that. One of the things was that. So product owners or in this case proxy pos, may not have the kind of stated explicit decision power in certain things, but of course, pardon me, but of course in reality they do have decision power, right? If they feel ownership over what they are doing, if they feel that they are contributing value, that they will be able to make decisions and then sell those decisions forward to stakeholders. So in this particular story, Alyona, was this product owner or proxy P.O. in this case, do you think this proxy PO was ready to take ownership, to really stand for their decisions. Or was it just a case of the authority not being given and somebody above the proxy PO kind of undoing their decisions?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Yes, I think it's the case where the authority was not being not given to that person. And I was going to say that even with the best intentions, when the organization decides not to give authority to the product owner, but to make a committee or to discuss things after the developers have the technical meeting, for example, or not to be present during the reviews and not to give feedback. I know it's the most of the time it's used that we don't have time, but it's really important because a lot of effort is wasted in this.

[Unknown Host]

Case and of course the effort is wasted. But most importantly then people are demotivated, they are confused, they are unsure, will this stick? Will this not stick? Will we have to redo this all again? Then they put more pressure on the proxy po because the proxy PO now needs to double check every single decision which delays the decision making. There's a whole host of anti patterns that start from that lack of authority. Right?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Yes, yes.

[Unknown Host]

So in this case, how did the story. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Sorry, it's not very much the proxy PO can do in this case.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, I was going to ask you, how did the story end? Like, did the proxy PO just, you know, I don't know, quit or like what happened in that particular instance?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Yes, yes, of course it ended like this. That it was, it wasn't something that could go on for a long time. At one point the team just understood that what was developed was not what the stakeholders wanted or not what they thought they wanted. So everyone was really demotivated.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, that's definitely one of the things that happens, demotivation. Because of course, you know, doing the work and then not getting the recognition and then getting to do the rework and you know, at some point we lose hope that we will ever know what needs to be done. Now, not all stories are so bleak and dark. Some are great stories of product owners and that's what we want to explore next. Aliana share with us the best product owner you've ever worked with. How did they work?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Luckily, I am happy to say that I had this experience and yes, in this case it's a mix of qualities, of course, the authority to make decisions and this helps the team move forward without unnecessary delays. And the product owner has the understanding of products and the market. This is also crucial as it guides the PO on setting the right priorities. And that's really important to make informed choices. Trust. This plays a huge important role in every aspect of this scrum. But when the product owner trusts the developers and listens to them, even if the product owner delegates some of the tasks, they still remain accountable for the overall results. But by trusting the team, the product owner fosters a collaborative environment where everyone feels valued and motivated. And moreover, involving the team in decision making is vital. Instead of dictating every detail, a great product owner encourages team members to share their ideas, which not only empowers them, but also leads to more innovative solutions and stronger sense of ownership over the product. And here is when the love for the product comes. So in short, I'd say that a great product owner has decision making authority, a deep understanding of the product, trusts the team and has a collaborative approach to decision making.

[Unknown Host]

One of the things that allows the team to love the product, as you were saying, is that they feel that they have that influence, and I think we don't often talk about that, is that it's not just having a great product owner. It's like you said, to have a collaborative product owner, right? A product owner that is directly able to contribute to the team's feeling and sense of ownership. Because that's what delivers that love for the product that you were talking about. Because it comes with pride of contribution, right? Like the team is proud to contribute and a product owner that kind of pushes the team away and wants to make the decisions themselves is going to push the team naturally away from wanting to own and love the product. Right.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

One of the questions I ask my team members is when you look at our product, how much of you you see there, how much of your you see there. And it's really important for them to have an answer, to know exactly where they contributed.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, absolutely. How much of you do you see in the product? I think that's an important question and I think also a powerful reflection for the team, right? Because if they say, oh, nothing, that's a big red flag. We need to tackle that. Because the team is developing the product literally, right? And if they don't see anything of themselves in the product, then I don't know, probably they're just, as I like to say, they're just shopping list managers, right? Like the stories come in, they just execute them. Don't ask anything, don't worry about what that means and just pass on to the next station in the process and go on and get another story, right? And we don't want that. And I think that this story highlights how important the product owner's stance is when helping the team feel ownership and kind of see themselves, as you said, see themselves in the product.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Yes. So I could add something new, something more.

[Unknown Host]

Yes, go for it.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

What else I would like to add is we expect the developers to make commitments and we want them to be predictable. We want a high predictability. But it's very important for the product owner or the team in general to negotiate, to understand the healthy part of negotiation, what can be done, what can we done in this sprint, and to.

[Unknown Host]

Respect this and that. Negotiation is again, part of co creation that we've talked about several times this week. And I guess maybe the key word for this week is co creation. Check out especially the episode on Wednesday, the Change episode, where we talk more about this. Alena, it's been a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for all of the stories and insights you've shared with us. We're getting close to the end though. So before we go, where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing?

[Alyona Zapanovic]

I guess on my LinkedIn page.

[Unknown Host]

Absolutely.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Search.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah, absolutely. And we'll put the link right in the show notes for people to easily find. So do reach out to Alyona and why not ask a few follow up questions. Alyona, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for your generosity with your time and your knowledge.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Thank you very much for inviting me. It was an incredible experience. Thanks a lot.

[Vasco Duart]

One more week of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast is over, but there's a lot more we have to share. We have developed our own membership site where you find a community of active and engaged Scrum Masters. In this site you get access to exclusive content and get to interact with us, your podcast hosts, as well as the best Scrum Masters in the world. So join us@scrummaster podcast.com and keep this podcast free of advertising. See you next week for one more full week of Scrum Master tips and tricks. We really hope you liked our show and if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes. Share this podcast and let other Scrum Masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that sharing is caring.

[Alyona Zapanovic]

Sample.