Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches

Episode: How to Break Through the 'Not My Problem' Mentality | Joelle Tegwen
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Joelle Tegwen
Release Date: July 15, 2025

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in a meaningful conversation with Joelle Tegwen, an experienced Agile Coach and Scrum Master. The episode delves into overcoming the pervasive "Not My Problem" mentality within teams, emphasizing the power of storytelling and creating reflective spaces to facilitate change.

The Power of Storytelling in Agile

Key Insights from "How Minds Change"

Joelle begins by discussing her inspiration from the book How Minds Change by David McRaney. Contrary to typical Agile literature, this book focuses on cognitive biases and the mechanisms behind changing people's minds.

• Creating Reflective Spaces: Joelle highlights a pivotal lesson from the book:

  “We don’t change other people’s minds. No amount of arguing or facts or anything like that is going to change somebody’s mind. What we need to do is make space for other people to reflect and change their own mind.”
  (01:38)

This approach shifts the role of Agile practitioners from being change agents to facilitators who create environments conducive to personal reflection and self-driven change.

Deep Canvassing Technique

Joelle introduces the concept of deep canvassing, a method developed during California's Prop 8 campaign. This technique involves:

1. Personal Story Sharing: Asking individuals to share their personal stories related to the topic.
2. Mutual Storytelling: The canvasser shares their own story to humanize and relate to the other person.
3. Reflective Questions: Concluding with questions that encourage individuals to reflect on any changes in their perspective.

“Tell me your story, Tell me what's happening for you, and then I can tell you a story that humanizes myself and relates to where you are so that you can understand the perspective that I might be trying to share.”
(06:03)

Joelle adapts this method to Agile coaching by encouraging team members to share their experiences and challenges, fostering a deeper understanding and empathy within the team.

Overcoming Team Dysfunction: A Real-World Example

Context of the Problem

Joelle shares a case study illustrating how teams can become their own worst enemies due to entrenched behaviors and lack of communication:

• Issue Identified: Developers and QA teams were stuck in a loop where each took an entire sprint to complete their tasks, leading to prolonged cycles before any feature reached production.
• Leadership Blindness: Leadership failed to recognize this as a problem, believing that delivering work with "quality" was sufficient, regardless of the time taken.

“...some of the leaders didn't see how on the IT side didn't see that this was a problem, because in their mind it worked, they delivered work, it was fine...”
(08:47)

Strategic Intervention

To address this, Joelle focused on supporting the QA team to articulate their struggles and the value of improving their processes:

1. Articulating Pain Points: Helping QA express the frustration of repeated manual testing cycles.
2. Technical Improvements: Facilitating training on automated testing and effective story splitting.
3. Building Collaboration: Enabling QA to share their experiences led developers and leaders to recognize the need for change.

“...helping them talk about how they were going to improve their automation, doing a training on how to split stories. Then they were able to see, and also helping the QA people tell their story about the pain that they were experiencing...”
(09:14)

Outcome

The intervention resulted in:

• Enhanced Efficiency: Automated testing reduced manual workload, allowing for smaller, more manageable stories.
• Increased Buy-In: Success in the QA team's processes convinced skeptics within leadership and development teams to adopt similar changes.
• Sustainable Change: The improvements became ingrained, leading to ongoing efficiencies and collaboration.

Strategies for Scrum Masters to Foster Change

Focus on Change Seekers

Vasco and Joelle emphasize targeting team members who are already inclined to embrace change. By nurturing these individuals, Scrum Masters can create ripples that encourage broader team transformation.

“You have to focus on the people who already want to work differently and work with them to find how that could be possible.”
(12:16)

Celebrate Small Successes

Joelle advises Scrum Masters to concentrate on achievable goals rather than overwhelming challenges. Success in smaller areas can build momentum and demonstrate the value of change.

“Focus on what you can do, not what you can't do. Don't keep trying to push the rock up the hill. Just focus on the place where there's a little flat spot...”
(12:28)

Leverage Storytelling

Utilizing storytelling to share experiences and relate to team members is crucial. It humanizes challenges and fosters empathy, making it easier for teams to navigate and embrace change.

Notable Quotes

• Joelle Tegwen:

  “We don't change other people's minds. No amount of arguing or facts or anything like that is going to change somebody's mind.”
  (01:38)

• Joelle Tegwen on Deep Canvassing:

  “Tell me your story, Tell me what's happening for you, and then I can tell you a story that humanizes myself...”
  (06:03)

• Joelle Tegwen:

  “If they can't see the impacts of it, then they're not going to change.”
  (08:47)

• Joelle Tegwen on Success:

  “Nothing boosts your cause more than success.”
  (12:28)

Conclusion

This episode underscores the importance of empathy, storytelling, and creating reflective spaces in Agile environments. By focusing on the intrinsic motivations of team members and celebrating incremental successes, Scrum Masters can effectively overcome resistance and foster a culture of continuous improvement. Joelle Tegwen's experiences and strategies provide actionable insights for Agile practitioners aiming to break through the "Not My Problem" mentality and drive meaningful change within their teams.

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