Leading Agile Transformations with the Flow Framework | Karthiga Seturaj

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Leading Agile Transformations with the Flow Framework
Host: Vasco Duarte, Agile Coach, Certified Scrum Master, Certified Product Owner
Guest: Kartiga Seturaj
Release Date: December 18, 2024

---

Introduction

In this episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in an insightful conversation with Kartiga Seturaj, an experienced Agile professional, about leading Agile transformations using the Flow Framework. The discussion delves into real-world experiences, practical tools, and valuable lessons learned during the transition from Scrum to a flow-based methodology.

Guest Introduction

Kartiga Seturaj brings a wealth of experience in Agile transformations, particularly in implementing the Flow Framework within organizations. Her expertise lies in guiding teams through significant methodological shifts, ensuring that changes are both effective and sustainable.

Main Discussion

1. Transforming from Scrum to Flow-Based Methodology

Kartiga recounts a major transformation project where her previous company transitioned from pure Scrum to a flow-based methodology, integrating elements from Spotify’s model, such as squads, tribes, chapters, and guilds. This shift involved moving away from rhythm-based ceremonies like regular sprint planning and refinements to a more flexible, just-in-time approach.

Kartiga Seturaj [03:37]: "We moved away from cadence-based ceremonies into a more just-in-time concept. We refine stories only when there is a need."

2. Leadership and Psychological Safety

A crucial factor in the success of this transformation was the leadership provided by the Engineering VP. His role in communicating the change and fostering psychological safety was instrumental in gaining team buy-in and reducing anxiety around the transition.

Kartiga Seturaj [03:37]: "The VP did a great job of providing psychological safety. Teams felt more comfortable, and it was coming from the VP."

Kartiga emphasized the importance of having an executive sponsor who advocates for the change, ensuring that teams feel secure and supported throughout the process.

3. Tools and Techniques Utilized

To navigate the transformation, several tools and techniques were employed:

• Lean Transformation Canvas: Assisted in defining success measures, understanding the "why" behind the change, and outlining the implementation strategy.

• Feedback Loops: Implemented through periodic anonymous surveys to gather team feedback on the changes.

• Hands-On Training: Included workshops, lunch-and-learns, and Agile games to help teams grasp new concepts effectively.

Kartiga Seturaj [03:37]: "We used tools like Lean Transformation Canvas and implemented feedback loops... training was heavily focused on hands-on methods."

4. Measuring Success and Continuous Improvement

Kartiga highlighted the significance of defining clear success metrics to evaluate the effectiveness of the transformation. While they successfully measured the future state, such as time saved and reduction in non-value-adding activities, Kartiga noted the need for better measurement of the current state before changes were implemented.

Kartiga Seturaj [06:30]: "We could have done a better job measuring the current state... that's something to keep in mind for any changes you roll out."

5. Adapting Agile to the Local Context

A key takeaway from Kartiga's experience is the adaptability of Agile principles. She emphasized that Agile is not a one-size-fits-all solution but rather a collection of adaptable practices that can be customized to fit the specific needs of an organization.

Kartiga Seturaj [07:48]: "Agile can be truly agile. There is no one size fits all... it's always good to implement and try to get the best out of it."

Key Takeaways

1. Leadership Matters: Effective leadership, especially from executive sponsors, is critical in guiding and supporting teams through Agile transformations.

2. Flexibility Over Rigidity: Transitioning from fixed sprint cycles to a flow-based approach can increase flexibility and responsiveness to changing priorities.

3. Comprehensive Training: Hands-on training methods are essential for ensuring that teams understand and effectively adopt new Agile practices.

4. Continuous Feedback: Implementing regular feedback loops allows organizations to make informed adjustments and continuously improve their Agile processes.

5. Customization is Key: Agile frameworks should be tailored to fit the unique context and needs of each organization, leveraging the best practices from various methodologies.

Notable Quotes

• Kartiga Seturaj [02:49]: "We did a transformation to adopt the Flow Framework, transitioning from pure Scrum to a flow-based methodology."

• Kartiga Seturaj [07:48]: "There is no one size fits all in Agile. It's about using the best from all available practices to suit your context."

• Vasco Duarte [08:52]: "Agile isn't one size fits all. It's a collection of principles and values that can be instantiated by multiple methods."

Conclusion

This episode offers a deep dive into the practical aspects of leading Agile transformations, highlighting the importance of leadership, flexibility, continuous feedback, and customization. Kartiga Seturaj’s experiences and insights provide valuable lessons for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches aiming to implement effective and sustainable Agile practices within their organizations.

---

Stay Connected

For more actionable advice, tips, and inspiring conversations with Agile practitioners, subscribe to the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast on Stitcher or iTunes. Share this podcast with fellow Scrum Masters to help them enhance their Agile journey.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, how are you doing? I'm Vasco Duarte, your host on the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And I've got some exciting news. So right now, as I record this, I'm holding in my hand the signed contract for our very first Global Agile Summit. We're all in and I couldn't wait to share this news with you. So mark your calendars. May 18th, 20th of 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia. We're going to have a transformative experience. We're putting together an event that is all about real life Agile. It's not theory or buzzwords. It's practitioners sharing what's working, what's making an impact, and how they've overcome challenges that you too will have to face, or maybe even facing. Right now, we're bringing together the best stories in Agile. From product leaders to engineering wizards to business, these will be stories that will inspire you to action. This isn't just another conference. It's a chance to connect with the people that are shaping the future of Agile. And here's the best part. Right now, we're in our super early bird phase. And that means you can grab tickets at just 25% of the final price. Look, that's not just half off, it's half off of the half off. It's an incredible deal for our dedicated community members, just like you listening to this right now. So at the summit, day one will be all about hands on workshops. And days two and three, we'll dive into leadership, product strategy, coding, testing, and everything that makes Agile thrive in organizations. Right now remember, these are all first person, real life stories. Now whether you're a leader, a developer, or part of a consulting company, this event is built to take your Agile game to the next level. So don't wait. Go to globalagilesummit.com and grab your ticket. Today, let's all make 2025 the year agile truly transforms your teams, your business and our industry. I'll see you all in Tallinn. And remember, go toGlobal Agile Summit.com and get your super early bird ticket right now. It will only be available until the agenda is announced, so don't wait. Grab it right now, right now that that's out of the way, onto the episode. Hello, everybody. Welcome to our Change Leadership episode. Today's Wednesday and this week we have with us Kartiga Seturaj. Hey, Kartiga, welcome back.

[B]

Hey, what's good? Nice to be back.

[A]

So Wednesday is the change day here on the podcast, of course, because after all, we do work a lot with anything that involves change. I mean, it can be a team level change, can be an organizational level change, can be even a personal level change. Therefore, it is really incumbent upon us to be excellent at the practice of change leadership. And that's why we want to explore one of those stories with you today, Kartiga. So share a story of a change process you were involved with and walk us through the the steps from beginning to end how that change process went. And then as you go through those, highlight for us the tools, the tips, the tricks and the techniques you learned back then that you still apply today.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. So if you remember the book that I talked about on Tuesday's episode, Project to Product. So we did a transformation in one of my previous companies to adopt Flow framework. So it was basically transitioning all the teams from pure Scrum to flow based methodology. And we also did a minor rearg based on Spotify's model, kind of regrouping teams into squads, tribes building chapters, guilds. So this was all part of that transformation. And as part of this, we moved away from cadence based ceremonies like how we do planning and refinement in Scrum every week or every two weeks based on a cadence. We kind of moved away from that into a more just in time concept. So we would do just in time refinements, just in time planning. We refine stories only when there is a need. So that's just one example of the change that we did. But the main core change was to move from Scrum to a flow based methodology. So this was a pretty huge change. And this was being led by our engineering vp which kind of helped. So half of the problem kind of was solved right there because the executive sponsor was kind of taking the lead. So the VP did a great job of providing psychological safety. So even though the Scrum masters were involved in implementing the change, he took the lead for communicating this to the teams. Teams felt more comfortable and it was coming from the vp. There was psychological safety which is needed for any kind of change. And VP also insisted to look at this as an experiment. Those were his words in our Hardlines meeting. So he mentioned that this would be an experiment. So from next iteration we're going to move to Flow from Scrum and if it does not work, we can pivot. So those were really powerful words to hear from a vp. So that kind of helped set some, you know, set the stage properly. The teams felt more comfortable, they were not anxious and that helped setting the right foot at the beginning. And as far as tools go, we use tools like Lean Transformation canvas which would help us understand what are the success measures of this change. How are we going to measure success and why, why we are doing it, most importantly, and how we are going to do it. And also implementing feedback loops, sending out like anonymous surveys in a periodic fashion to get feedback on the various changes that we did. And most importantly, training. So when it came to training, we focused heavily on hands on training with lunch and learns with workshops with Agile games so the teams can understand all the different concepts that we were introducing, introducing all of the all at the same time. And we also did a good job of measuring the future state. One thing that which we could have done a better job was measuring the current state. We had some measures, but having a plan of we are going to compare the current state to future state once the change is implemented. That's something that to keep in mind as part of any changes that you might roll out. And also one thing that I took away as one of the key learnings is how agile can be truly agile. In the sense there is no one size fits all and we have all these different frameworks that's available to us. Why not use the best from all the available practices? The underlying principles are pretty much the same, but xbe Kanban, flow, they all have pretty good practices and it's always good to implement those and try to get the best out of it. I was lucky enough to witness that firsthand.

[A]

Yeah, and that's a very important point that you mentioned. Agile isn't the one size fits all. In fact, it is a collection of principles and values that are then instantiated by multiple methods frameworks that people apply, like Scrum for example, or Extreme programming. So the core is really to adapt what is a whatever might be the process itself, but also the ideas of Agile to our local context. And the techniques that you mentioned, like having feedback loops implemented in the change process itself, I think is a great example of how we can give ourselves the opportunity to customize what Agile means in our specific context. Can you give an example of the type of changes or kind of adaptations that you had to do based on the feedback that you collected through those feedback loops?

[B]

Yeah, sure. So we definitely did get a lot of feedback. One thing that the teams asked about first in the first two iterations is how can we say that we have improved? Is there anything that's there to prove our hypothesis? How are we going to measure that we have improved? So that was a great point. Some team members were really curious to look at the data points itself. They wanted to see did my velocity improve, did my time to market improve? Things like that. So having good definition of success measures. Right. So how are we going to measure. So the main, the main, one of the main reasons for doing this change is trying to be more flexible. So we didn't like. The leadership didn't like the idea of getting locked into two week commitment. So they didn't want to have that fixed backlog where it's hard to introduce change in Scrum. So that was their personal opinion. They wanted to be more flexible when it comes to prioritization. Let's think about what's the high priority today when the teams are running out of work. If the developer is running out of work. Instead of looking at the backlog which was set like two weeks ago as part of split planning, let's look at what's the most important thing to work on today and make it even more easier for prioritization. The flexibility is the one that we wanted to leverage in Kanban compared to Scrum. So those are things that we try to focus more on. So how we are able to prioritize on the fly and how we don't spend a lot of time in refining tickets which you might not be working at all in the coming weeks. So that was another thing that we tried to focus on the teams.

[A]

So you measured those things specifically, right?

[B]

Yep. Yes. How much time is saved? I mean how much time is not spent in non value adding activities? You don't have to refine something if you're not going to work on it in the next three or four days. Don't spend an hour refining 10 tickets. Instead refine the ticket that you need as and when you run out of work.

[A]

Absolutely. And that ability to translate a goal like be more flexible into concrete metrics is extremely important because that is part of creating those feedback cycles you were talking about.

[B]

Yep, exactly. Yeah. It might not be easier. We might theoretically explain this to the teams. But yeah, having some data points around how we are going to track the time spent in refinement in Scrum versus time spent ingestion time refinements.

[A]

Absolutely. Well, that was a great story. Thank you for sharing that, Kartiga.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

We really hope you liked our show. And if you did, why not rate this podcast on Stitcher or itunes, share this podcast and let other Scrum masters know about this valuable resource for their work. Remember that sharing is caring.