Lean Change Management, How to Design Change with Those Affected | Carmen Jurado

Summary

Episode Summary: Lean Change Management with Carmen Jurado

Podcast: Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches
Host: Vasco Duarte, Agile Coach, Certified Scrum Master, Certified Product Owner
Guest: Carmen Guerra Jurado, Agile Coach and Consultant
Episode Title: Lean Change Management, How to Design Change with Those Affected
Release Date: April 30, 2025

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Introduction to Guest and Topic

In this enlightening episode, host Vasco Duarte welcomes Carmen Guerra Jurado, an experienced Agile Coach and Consultant, to delve into the intricacies of Lean Change Management. Carmen brings a wealth of knowledge from her dual experience as both a Scrum Master and a consultant, providing unique insights into effective change implementation within organizations.

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Understanding the Change Process

Initial Steps and Transition into Consulting

Carmen begins by sharing her professional journey:

“I started off as a Scrum master and following that I transitioned into consulting. And if you're into labels, I would label myself an Agile coach.”
(01:46)

She emphasizes the typical scenarios consultants face, such as being hired by managers or executives to tackle specific issues or implement pilot projects aimed at increasing effectiveness and efficiency. Her work predominantly involves Scrum and Kanban methodologies, alongside leading large-scale transformations across various organizations.

Key Insight: Importance of Communication and Involvement

A central theme Carmen highlights is the critical role of communication and employee involvement in successful change management:

“Imposing change without any adequate communication or involvement of the operation can really be detrimental.”
(03:29)

She explains that when employees are merely informed about new methods without prior discussion or understanding, it fosters resistance born from misunderstanding or fear of the unknown:

“Fear of the unknown. And unknown is because the communication was lacking, let's be honest.”
(03:32)

Carmen advocates for involving employees early in the transformation process to foster ownership and collaboration, making the change sustainable and more likely to achieve desired outcomes.

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Balancing Involvement and Progress

Selective Participation for Effective Change

Addressing the challenge of involving employees without stalling progress, Carmen suggests a balanced approach:

“You can have a representative of the different... business units or the different teams and have them participate in maybe like feedback sessions on the change plans or maybe contribute during the brainstorming phase.”
(05:09)

She advises against involving the entire organization directly due to practicality but stresses the importance of including representatives to gather diverse perspectives and facilitate smoother transitions.

Empowering Teams through Facilitation

Carmen shares a practical example from her experience:

“We had a manager contact us to see if we could maybe facilitate a session for a couple of hours for a relatively big group... I made a counteroffer... have one of your own Scrum Masters facilitate the session... write a facilitation guide for them.”
(05:09 - 06:57)

This approach not only empowers internal team members but also fosters their growth and professional development, enhancing the overall effectiveness of the change process.

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Co-Creating Change

Embracing Collaborative Change Design

Drawing parallels with Jason Little’s concept of co-creating change from the book Lean Change Management, Carmen underscores the necessity of collaborative design in change initiatives:

“Change gets co-created. We may set a direction and a vision but then we need to co-create the way there.”
(08:27)

She encourages involving key stakeholders, including critics, to gain diverse insights and improve the change strategy:

“Try involving your biggest critic also and make them a co-creator... It's really easy to... yell things at the football team... But try being one of the coaching teams or an actual player yourself.”
(09:08)

Leveraging Diverse Perspectives

Carmen highlights the value of including dissenting voices in the change process:

“They bring a different perspective. They don't come in with... rosy glasses. They're predisposed to find the flaws and the problems... done respectfully and collaboratively, is an incredible resource.”
(10:14)

This strategy ensures that potential issues are addressed proactively, enhancing the robustness and acceptance of the change initiative.

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Practical Tools and Techniques

Throughout the discussion, Carmen shares actionable tips and techniques that have proven effective in her change management endeavors:

1. Representative Involvement: Select key individuals from various departments to participate in feedback and brainstorming sessions.
2. Facilitation Guides: Provide structured guides to internal facilitators to maintain consistency and effectiveness in sessions.
3. Inclusive Decision-Making: Ensure that employees are part of the decision-making process to foster ownership and reduce resistance.
4. Engaging Critics: Actively involve dissenting voices to leverage their unique perspectives and improve change strategies.

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Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Carmen Guerra Jurado offers a compelling perspective on Lean Change Management, emphasizing the importance of communication, selective involvement, and co-creation in successful change initiatives. Her insights highlight that sustainable change is rooted in collaboration, empathy, and strategic inclusion of diverse team members.

Key Quotes:

• “Imposing change without any adequate communication or involvement of the operation can really be detrimental.” (03:29)
• “Fear of the unknown. And unknown is because the communication was lacking, let's be honest.” (03:32)
• “Change gets co-created. We may set a direction and a vision but then we need to co-create the way there.” (08:27)
• “They bring a different perspective... done respectfully and collaboratively, is an incredible resource.” (10:14)

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Final Thoughts

For Scrum Masters, Agile Coaches, and organizational leaders seeking to implement effective change, Carmen’s experiences and strategies provide valuable guidance. Her emphasis on meaningful communication, representative involvement, and collaborative design offers a blueprint for navigating the complexities of organizational transformation.

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Stay Tuned: For more actionable insights and inspiring conversations with Agile professionals worldwide, subscribe to the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast and enhance your Agile practice.

Transcript

[Host]

Have you ever wondered what it really takes to make Agile work well? At the Global Agile Summit, we're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action. Whether you're a leader, a product innovator, a developer, you'll hear practical insights from those who've done it. They'll be telling their own stories from the stage. I'll tell you more about this at the end of this episode. So stay back and listen to the full detailed description of what we have in store for you at the Global Agile Summit. But if you can't wait, you can go right now to globalagilesummit.com and check out our full schedule for now onto the episode. But I'll see you at the end of this episode with more details on the Global Agile Summit. Talk to you soon.

[Interviewer]

Hello everybody. Welcome to our Wednesday the Leading Change episode here on the podcast with this week, Carmen Guerra Jurado. Hey Carmen, welcome to the show.

[Carmen Guerra Jurado]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Interviewer]

So let's start with change, because it is, after all, something that we are always dealing with. Just yesterday we were talking about that it was more of a personal change, but change nonetheless. So let's dive into a change process you were involved with and walk us through the whole process, you know, from beginning to end. And as you go through the steps, highlight for us the tools, the tips, the tricks and the techniques you learned back then that you still apply today.

[Carmen Guerra Jurado]

Yeah, so I started off as a Scrum master and following that I transitioned into consulting. And if you're into labels, I would label myself an Agile coach. So this question really reminds me of numerous experience I've had in the field as a consultant. And as a consultant, it's kind of typical that you're hired by a manager or by a higher level executive to address really specific issues or maybe implement some pilot projects that aim to demonstrate more effectiveness and efficiency. And I am an Agile coach. So regularly it's either with Scrum or with Kanban. But several of my assignments also included these large scale transformations at various organizations. And I think one key insight from my dual experience because, because I have both been at the two ends of the spectrum, I've been implementing changes and I've been subject to changes. And I feel that one key insight is that imposing change without any adequate communication or involvement of the operation can really be detrimental. So for instance, when employees kind of undergo a transformation, they're often informed about these new methods without any prior discussion or understanding of these broader Objectives which can only lead to resistance and dissatisfaction because the resistance comes from a place of misunderstanding or just not enough knowledge.

[Interviewer]

And having been on, sometimes even just fear. Right?

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, fear.

[Carmen Guerra Jurado]

Fear of the unknown. And unknown is because the communication was lacking, let's be honest. So having been on both sides of the table, I tried to use my own experience to emphasize the importance of really involving employees at the beginning of any transformation process. Leadership cannot simply dictate new processes without fostering some sense of ownership or collaboration among employees. Right. If they do, that's not really sustainable and it will never achieve your desired outcomes. So when you're discussing tools or techniques, it's to me really important to highlight the value of engaging employees early on. And I feel the management should really extend the same level of courtesy and time that they have dedicated to planning and researching transformation themselves to their employees. Right. They should involve employees in discussions and decision making processes because that acceptance and commitment definitely will.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so one of the things that I think is going on in people's minds as they listen to this is of course, okay, so we need to involve people, but we also need the change to happen. So where do we draw the line? Like, how do we keep the balance between never ending discussions and actual progress with the change?

[Carmen Guerra Jurado]

Yeah, I mean, you can obviously not have the whole operations be involved in giving you feedback and involved in the planning of this transformation. Right. But you can have a representative of the different, maybe the different business units or the different teams and have them participate in maybe like feedback sessions on the change plans or maybe contribute during the brainstorming phase. Right. So having, I'm not saying the whole company because that is just not doable and not plausible, but having some representatives is highly, highly advisable in my situation. And just to give a simple example of a situation I experienced quite recently is we had a manager contact us to see if we could maybe facilitate a session for a couple of hours for a relatively big group. It was more than like 30 people. And I knew that several Scrum Masters were working at the very department. Right. So I kind of made a counteroffer, which is, you know, why not have one of your own Scrum Masters facilitate the session? And if you're worried maybe about their lack of experience or knowledge, I would be more than happy to like prepare it with them, maybe write a facilitation guide for them and with them. But these are really important learning experiences also for Scrum Masters, for novice Scrum Masters to help grow in their profession. Right. And as a more experienced agile coach, I would like to contribute to that and not take that opportunity away from them. So just to give that as a small example.

[Interviewer]

So for me it sounds like, and I want to check this with you, it sounds like what you're saying is, okay, so let's involve people, but let's have a process that doesn't necessarily cover 100% of the people. I mean it could, but, but let's create a process around which we can design this involvement so that it is productive both for the people as well as for the team that is in charge of what happens in that change process. Right. Is that what you mean?

[Carmen Guerra Jurado]

Absolutely. I think we should realize the wealth of knowledge and often also willingness present in the teams to help with these big transitions and transformations. Right. And if you're working, and I have that too, you know, when you're working within your own bubble, you don't really see the potential of people outside of that bubble, which, which is, which leads to like underestimating the potential contribution of the people that are not in your immediate bubble. And I think it's always good to have like someone, even if it's, if it's a scrum master, an agile coach, a product owner, be like, hey, hey, there's a bigger world than your own little bubble. Maybe, maybe see if we can, if we can get some of the knowledge experience from, from outside of that.

[Interviewer]

For me, this sounds very much like the aspect of co creating change that Jason Little talks about in the book Lean Change Management, which is this idea that change gets co created. Right. Like we may set a direction and a vision but then we need to co create the way there. We need to understand, you know, what, what needs to change, how it needs to change, who can be part of it, who needs to be informed but not necessarily involved. Who needs to be involved, who wants to be involved. Right. Because that's a very important aspect as well.

[Carmen Guerra Jurado]

That's a really important one. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So, so is, is this what you have in mind, like this aspect of enabling the co creation of change?

[Carmen Guerra Jurado]

Definitely, definitely. And just maybe going back to an earlier conversation that we had, try to involve your biggest critic also in, in and try to make them a co creator. Because it's really easy to like from the sideline. You know, when you go to a football match and you're a supporter in the stands and you just like yell things at the football team, it's really easy. But try being one of the, one of the coaching teams or try being an actual player yourself, it's a totally different perspective. So I would also really highly recommend. And yes, it won't be easy, but it is so worthwhile in the end. I would highly recommend trying to involve someone who is a known critic of these kind of changes and we all know them. When you go to a business unit or to an organization, who's the person who would most likely make a comment or some kind of critique about something new? Oh, it's James. Okay, James, how about you be part of this team now?

[Interviewer]

I would recommend that also because they bring a different perspective. Right. Like they don't come in with, we could call it rosy glasses. Right. They're predisposed to find the flaws and the problems, which if done respectfully and collaboratively, is an incredible resource.

[Carmen Guerra Jurado]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

These are great tips. Pardon me. Thank you for sharing that with us, Carmen.

[Carmen Guerra Jurado]

You're welcome.

[Host]

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[Interviewer]

So who will be speaking?

[Host]

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[Interviewer]

I'll see you.