Measuring Agile Team Success Through Stable Delivery Flow | Marina Lazovic

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches Episode Summary: Measuring Agile Team Success Through Stable Delivery Flow | Marina Lazovic

In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in a deep conversation with Marina Lazovic, an experienced Agile Coach and Certified Scrum Master. The discussion centers around measuring Agile team success through maintaining a stable delivery flow, offering valuable perspectives for Scrum Masters aiming to enhance their teams' performance and accountability.

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1. Introduction to Marina Lazovic

Marina Lazovic brings a wealth of experience as an Agile Coach and Scrum Master, focusing on optimizing team delivery and fostering accountability within Agile frameworks. Her pragmatic approach emphasizes simplicity and effectiveness in Agile practices, making her insights particularly relevant for professionals seeking tangible improvements in their Agile processes.

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2. Retrospective Formats: Embracing Simplicity

Timestamp: [01:25]

When discussing retrospective formats, Marina advocates for simplicity over complexity. She notes the abundance of retrospective templates available on platforms like LinkedIn and Miroverse but prefers a straightforward approach that aligns with her team's preferences.

“I like to keep retrospective very simple... My favorite is the Lean Coffee retrospective. It’s so open that you can talk about anything.”
— Marina Lazovic [01:25]

Marina highlights the effectiveness of the Lean Coffee format, where team members propose topics openly, vote on their importance, and discuss the most relevant issues. This method ensures that retrospectives remain focused and relevant, catering to the team's immediate needs without unnecessary embellishments.

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3. Action Items: Defining Who, What, and When

Timestamp: [05:07]

A crucial aspect of effective retrospectives, according to Marina, is the clear definition of action items. She emphasizes the importance of assigning responsibility and setting deadlines to ensure accountability and follow-through.

“Every action needs to have like who is going to do it, what the action is, and when it’s going to get done.”
— Marina Lazovic [02:45]

By specifying who is responsible, what needs to be done, and when it should be completed, teams can avoid ambiguity and ensure that action items are actionable and trackable. This structured approach fosters a culture of accountability, encouraging team members to commit to tangible improvements.

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4. Defining Success for Scrum Masters: Focus on Delivery

Timestamp: [05:15]

Marina redefines success for Scrum Masters beyond traditional roles of facilitation and coaching. She underscores the importance of delivery as a key metric for success, positioning Scrum Masters as enablers of optimal team performance.

“Scrum Masters really need to be accountable for that delivery... making sure at the end of the day that the teams deliver, get things done.”
— Marina Lazovic [05:15]

For Marina, success involves ensuring that teams maintain a stable delivery flow with an upward trend in output quality and consistency. This perspective aligns Scrum Masters with the tangible outcomes of their teams' work, highlighting their role in driving productivity and ensuring that deliverables meet stakeholder expectations.

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5. Understanding Delivery in Agile Teams

Timestamp: [07:07]

The conversation delves into the complexities of defining what constitutes "done" in Agile delivery. Marina acknowledges the challenges in measuring delivery beyond mere completion of tasks, emphasizing the importance of delivering value that is actually utilized by customers.

“Delivery is a little bit of a tricky issue... it opens up, you know, product owner topics, flow of work, end-to-end topics.”
— Vasco Duarte, Host [07:07]

Marina explains that delivery should not only be about task completion but also about ensuring that the product is used and valued by customers. This broader definition necessitates collaboration between Scrum Masters, Product Owners, and development teams to align on meaningful deliverables that drive user engagement and satisfaction.

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6. Circle of Influence: Focusing on Controllable Factors

Timestamp: [10:25]

A significant part of maintaining a stable delivery flow involves understanding and delineating the team's circle of influence. Marina advocates for teams to concentrate their efforts on factors they can control, enhancing efficiency and reducing frustration.

“What does it mean? But we need to... what is in our influence or what is in our control...”
— Marina Lazovic [10:25]

By identifying what aspects of their work environment and processes they can influence, teams can prioritize actionable items and avoid expending energy on external factors beyond their control. This strategic focus not only optimizes performance but also fosters a sense of empowerment and ownership within the team.

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7. Managing External Factors Affecting Team Delivery

Timestamp: [11:03]

Marina shares a practical example illustrating the impact of external factors on team delivery. She recounts a scenario where unclear processes for second-level support were disrupting her team's workflow, highlighting the importance of distinguishing between controllable and uncontrollable issues.

“There is a problem with not really clear process of the second level support... it was very influencing the team and they had a lot of complaints...”
— Marina Lazovic [11:03]

In such cases, Marina advises bringing these issues to the attention of leadership or management without expecting the team to resolve them directly. This approach ensures that the team remains focused on their primary responsibilities while also contributing to organizational improvements through appropriate channels.

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8. Implementing Circle of Influence in Retrospectives

Timestamp: [10:25]

Integrating the concept of the circle of influence into retrospectives helps teams prioritize their action items effectively. Marina utilizes this framework to guide discussions, ensuring that the team addresses issues within their control while also recognizing the need to escalate or delegate external challenges.

“We are clear on what is in our influence or what is in our control... we can’t take ownership because it’s outside our circle of influence.”
— Marina Lazovic [11:03]

This strategic focus not only streamlines the retrospective process but also enhances the team's ability to implement meaningful changes that directly impact their performance and delivery outcomes.

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Conclusion

Marina Lazovic's insights provide a pragmatic approach to measuring Agile team success through a stable delivery flow. By emphasizing simplicity in retrospectives, clear action item definitions, and a focused understanding of the team's circle of influence, Scrum Masters can effectively support their teams in delivering consistent, high-quality results. Her experiences highlight the importance of balancing accountability with strategic focus, ensuring that teams remain productive and engaged while navigating both internal and external challenges.

For Scrum Masters and Agile professionals seeking to enhance their team's delivery capabilities, Marina's strategies offer actionable guidance to foster sustained success and continuous improvement.

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Notable Quotes:

• Marina Lazovic [01:25]: “I like to keep retrospective very simple... My favorite is the Lean Coffee retrospective. It’s so open that you can talk about anything.”

• Marina Lazovic [02:45]: “Every action needs to have like who is going to do it, what the action is, and when it’s going to get done.”

• Marina Lazovic [05:15]: “Scrum Masters really need to be accountable for that delivery... making sure at the end of the day that the teams deliver, get things done.”

• Vasco Duarte, Host [07:07]: “Delivery is a little bit of a tricky issue... it opens up, you know, product owner topics, flow of work, end-to-end topics.”

• Marina Lazovic [10:25]: “What does it mean? But we need to... what is in our influence or what is in our control...”

• Marina Lazovic [11:03]: “There is a problem with not really clear process of the second level support... it was very influencing the team and they had a lot of complaints...”

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights shared by Marina Lazovic, providing valuable takeaways for Agile practitioners aiming to measure and enhance their team's success through effective delivery practices.

Transcript

[Host]

Have you ever wondered what it really takes to make Agile work well? At the Global Agile Summit, we're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action. Whether you're a leader, a product innovator, a developer, you'll hear practical insights from those who've done it. They'll be telling their own stories from the stage. I'll tell you more about this at the end of this episode. So stay back and listen to the full detailed description of what we have in store for you at the Global Agile Summit. But if you can't wait, you can go right now to globalagilesummit.com and check out our full schedule for now onto the episode. But I'll see you at the end of this episode with more details on the Global Agile Summit. Talk to you soon. Hello, everybody. Welcome to our success Thursday.

[Interviewer]

This week we have with us Marina Lazowic. Hey, Marina.

[Host]

Welcome back.

[Interviewer]

Hey.

[Marina Lazowic]

Hey. Thank you.

[Interviewer]

So it's Thursday, of course we're talking about success, but before we dive into that, Marina, share with us what's your favorite retrospective format and why?

[Marina Lazowic]

I like to keep retrospective very simple. So maybe this is not. It's different from what a lot of agilists and Scrum masters and agile coaches are recommending or using. Because if you look at LinkedIn or Miroverse, there are a million different templates and formats. But for me, I like to keep it very simple, very simple. I'm not a fan of so many themed retros or playing games. Sometimes it can be fun. But from my experience, and I was really even interviewing my developers a lot of times, like, what do they like, what do they don't like? When we do retros, what mostly came out was, yeah, they like to get to the point, they like to discuss mostly the important problems that they're, they're facing and they want it clear, clear. They don't want to play around. So maybe depends on the teams. But for me, the most feedback I got ever from development teams, like, yeah, let's try to keep it to the point. So, and that's also what I like. So I like to keep it simple. One of the, my favorite that's very, very simple but it's so open that you can talk about anything is the, you know, the Lean Coffee retrospective. I don't know if you're familiar. It's like one big chunk is all the items to discuss. Like it's a swimming pool of ideas that anyone can put whatever then grouped Items or voted sometimes or often. If we have a lot of items on the board, we vote for the ones that are or developers. Basically the team votes for the ones that are most interesting for everyone. Then we group them if they are similar topics or they are somehow related and we discuss them. And then of course, actions. Every retro has to have some actions. And lately I really use this for actions. Started using this format that is every action needs to have like who is going to do it, what of course is that action and when is going to get done. So this is something I started really implementing lately with my teams and I think it's really effective for actions.

[Interviewer]

Clarifies the ownership and also the expected outcome, right?

[Marina Lazowic]

Yeah, absolutely. And keep it when I didn't use this when statement previously before I thought, okay, we don't have to. Sometimes we get busy and there are so many things on our plate. So let's not. Sometimes we don't want to specify the date because we're probably not going to get it done by that time. But I think it's useful and I found out that it's good. Creates a bit more of focus or accountability on that person that, yeah, I said I'll do it by that or on myself when I have actions on myself. When I say, okay, I will try to do it by that date, I really try to focus on doing it in opposite. Then you don't have a specific date, you say, okay, yeah, I can push it a bit more.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, it's the Parkinson's law, right? Like if you give it an infinite time, it will never get done.

[Marina Lazowic]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

All right. But we do these retros because we want to help teams succeed and of course we want to succeed ourselves. So Marina, when you think about success.

[Host]

For Scrum Masters, how would you describe it?

[Interviewer]

What is success for you?

[Marina Lazowic]

For me is, you know, every Scrum Master is from my perspective also not just, you know, there are so many stances of Scrum Master like we know like facilitator and coach and teacher and so on. But one big aspect that maybe was getting neglected but I think lately is coming to surface as a really important part of the role is delivery and accountability of a Scrum Master is to help support the teams to deliver in an optimum way. So whatever that optimal way means for the team to perform optimally for that team. So, you know, have a stable flow, have a good upward trend of delivery. So delivery is something at the end of the day we want in all of our teams, right. We are here, all of us, meaning the developer development teams, the product owners, the leadership, we are all creating some kind of. Or we are working us that work in the IT industry. Most of Scrum Masters do. Right. We are building something for someone, some users, some clients, someone at the end of the day, and we want to provide them with that quality of the product that we are delivering. So Scrum Masters really need to be accountable for that delivery and part of that delivery, not just focus on resolving conflicts and facilitating and so on. That's a big part, but deliver. So my really success factor is making sure at the end of the day that the teams deliver, get things to done.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so whatever that means. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to say. Okay. Because when we talk about delivery, it's a little bit of a tricky issue. Right? Right. Because for example, Scrum Masters might say, well, the delivery is when my team is done. Well, if your team is the only one involved, that might be true. But even if your team is the one that is involved, wouldn't done be better defined as when a customer first used something. Okay, but then that delivers another problem, which is okay, but we deliver a lot of things that never get used. So is something done even though it is available, but not being. So how do you discuss that with the team? Because that opens up, you know, product owner topics, that opens up flow of work, end to end topics. How do you discover. Sorry, how do you define with your teams what delivery means?

[Marina Lazowic]

Yeah, well, that's a really complex topic. Yeah. Sometimes it cannot be really specifically answered, even with the team. You know, like you say, it opens a box of new questions. Really, what does it mean? But we need to. What I try to do is focus with the team specifically if we're talking about delivery of specific Scrum teams. Because Scrum can also be scaled so we can talk about delivery of the whole platform or whatever on that scale. But if we're talking about the teams, I try to focus on their sprints, to make it simple, because teams, there are things that are. And I really try to also talk about this with my teams and bring that awareness to them. Because there are things that the teams can control, that is within their control, that they can influence, they can do themselves. And there are things that they cannot, you know, that are bigger than the teams. If you're working in a larger organization where things are scaled, where there are a lot of levels where delivery is not just end of sprint of a team, but there are larger deployments to different environments, to different states, different stages, different big clients and so on. So there are things that are in control of the team and with the development teams I mostly try to focus on that scope of their work. Of course they need to have the awareness that they are part of the system and how they as a small element of that system can have influence on that whole system. I try to use by myself holistic approach or have systems understanding of the whole process and try to make my teams aware that they are a part of the system and they are very important part of the system. But on the other hand I try to with them to focus on their part because they cannot be of course responsible for everything. So we all as elements of the system.

[Interviewer]

So the discussion is where does our circle of influence start and end? Right. And let's focus on that. And that's actually very useful as a conversation because it also helps us focus our retrospective actions because we cannot as a team own actions that are beyond our circle of influence. Of course we can delegate that to a manager, bring it up to the.

[Host]

Scrum of scrums or something like that.

[Interviewer]

But we can't own it as a team. Right. Because it's outside our circle of influence. So that idea of the circle of influence can also be used and be productive when discussing what delivery means, right?

[Marina Lazowic]

Yeah, exactly. That's what I use in. In. In that conversation and exactly what you mentioned, I use that also in retrospective. So with the teams, so we are clear on what is in our influence or what is in our control, what the team can actually do and change and what is not. But it's not even. But of course, even if it's not in the team's influence or control, it doesn't mean that there's nothing good that we can do about it. There is absolutely. We are having a lot of these conversations and a lot of these problems. One of the. I can give an example that's happening with one of my teams. There is a problem. There was a problem with not really clear process of the second level support in the company at some point and all those like incidents and some kind of production issues and so on were coming directly to our development team. That wasn't really ideal for them, you know, because they're mostly working on new features and we have plannings and so on. And these things are not just only disruptive but they are involve a lot of, a lot of changes and a lot of time. Time pressure. But these things were not really in the control of the. Of the team to change. It's an organizational issue that, that there's A process being defined, the people, you know, teams being hired and so on and so on. Something that the, the company is aware and trying to resolve on another level. But it was very influencing the team and they had a lot of complaints how much that is disrupting their work and how can we fix it. But it wasn't theirs to fix. That is what I tried to tell. It's not something that they can fix, but it's of course good to bring it up because we can make the management, the leadership, whoever is responsible for solving that problem, we need to make them aware of the problems that the team is facing. And how is that impacting the delivery?

[Host]

Exactly. But, but it really is useful to.

[Interviewer]

Recognize that, that boundary because then we say, okay, we make them aware, maybe we follow up, maybe we go to their retrospective or whatever, but we can't take ownership because it's within, it's not within our circle of influence. Yeah, absolutely. Great story. Also great conversation about delivery. So thank you for that, Marina.

[Marina Lazowic]

Thanks.

[Host]

Hey friend, thank you for staying here. Is all you need to know about the Global Agile Summit. If you've ever suffered or know people who are suffering from agile fatigue, this event is for you. Agile fatigue is that feeling that settles in when we can't really see a light at the end of the tunnel. We get discouraged, especially when conversations revolve around the same old frameworks, the same old buzzwords and theories. We don't feel that energy anymore. Well, the Global Agile Summit is a different kind of event. We're bringing you real life first person stories of Agile succeeding out there in the real world that will inspire you to take action and transform the way you work. The Global Agile Summit will happen In Tallinn, Estonia, May 18th. That's the workshop day. Then 19th and 20th, the conference day. And Tallinn, Estonia is one of the most innovative tech hubs in Europe. The Global Agile Summit is hosted together with Latitude 59, which is kind of a citywide celebration of software startups and groundbreaking ideas. And we'll have a shared ticket for you to attend those events as well. So who will be speaking? Well, we've got an incredible lineup of thought leaders in software and agile. For example, Clinton Keith, the person who wrote, literally wrote the book on game development with Scrum and is busy bringing Agile to the world of game development. You must check his session. The very famous and well known Jurgen Apello, author of Management 3.0, will be talking and exploring about AI's impact on leadership. We also have Goiko Adsic, who's taking an unconventional look at Product Growth with his Lizard Optimization keynote. Other speakers include, for example Sig Sven Dietz, who's challenging everything we know about software development by ditching, literally ditching contracts and estimates. Can you imagine his teams deliver software before their competitors are even done with the contract negotiation? How agile is that? But there's more. We'll cover engineering practices in our developer track with talks on for example AI assisted test driven development, developing products in minutes with with a different approach to how we develop, configure, deploy platforms, and much more. We also have a product track where we cover cutting edge ideas around product discovery, delighting customers with product delight frameworks. We'll have a talk about that. And we also have an Agile Business track where we will talk about, for example Open Strategy, a very agile approach to managing organizations and delivering software faster to clients faster than you can even write a contract. Literally. I mean, I already told you about Svendeet's story is amazing. It definitely is a must see. I'm sure you'll be inspired and get a lot of ideas for your own software projects and software delivery. Now, whether you're a business leader, a product innovator or a developer, you'll definitely find value in our three focused tracks. That's Agile Business for those working with businesses and organizations, Agile Product for product managers, product owners and innovators and Agile Developer for the builders making Agile work in practice. The coders, the testers, the designers, the producers, the scrum masters, you name it. If you join, you will meet over 200 agile professionals from all over the world. People who just like you, want to grow, want to share and want to learn by challenging the ideas that don't work anymore. At the Global Agile Summit, you'll get new connections, fresh ideas and the energy to take your own Agile to the next level. And who knows, maybe even find your next career opportunity. So don't miss out. Check out the full program and grab your ticket [e-mail] I'm really looking forward to seeing you all in Tallinn, Estonia in May. I'll see you there.