Transcript
Vasco Duart (0:00)
Hi, I'm your host, Vasco Duart. Welcome to the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast, where we share tips and tricks from Scrum Masters around the world. Every day, we bring you inspiring answers to important questions that all Scrum Masters.
Podcast Host (0:14)
Face day after day. Hello, everybody. Welcome to our Team Tuesday this week with Mike Baller. Hey, Mike. Welcome back.
Mike Baller (0:29)
Thank you.
Podcast Host (0:30)
So, Mike, on Tuesdays, we talk about teams, of course. But before we dive into the team, share with us what was the book that most inspired you in your career as a Scrum Master?
Mike Baller (0:42)
That's a tough one because I'm reading constantly and there's so many books that have done that, but I'll pick one. I'll pick Thinking Fast and Slow because it's an interesting introduction into what makes people tick. Because ultimately, everything we're doing is all about people. It's about behavior change. And all the interesting behavior change happens sort of at an unconscious level. So we need to understand a bit about the people, about the psychology behind them, around the things that motivate them. And Thinking Fast and Slow really gets into that. It talks about how we have these two different ways of thinking, System one and System two. System one being largely unconscious and System Two being largely conscious. And he goes into a lot of the science. It is a heavy book, but it's a very powerful book, and I think it would be useful to your readers as an entry point. Obviously, this is a very deep topic that you can spend a lot of time in, but this is a good entry point.
Podcast Host (1:36)
Absolutely. And I'm with you in that. We need to understand how people think, what is important to them, what are kind of the patterns that we observe everywhere. Thankfully, lately, there has been quite a big movement also to introduce other aspects of people's psychology, like neurodiversity. And that's a very important set of tools that we need in our toolbox, because that's, as you said, we work with people. And talking about people, of course, they are the ones who compose the teams we work with, and sometimes they kind of create their own problems. And today is Team Tuesday here on the podcast. So we want to explore one of those stories with you. Mike, share with us a story of a team, tell us a little bit about the context, and then walk us through how those small little behaviors developed over time, grew, and eventually created problems for the team.
Mike Baller (2:34)
I'll tell you about the most dysfunctional team I've ever worked with, because there were so many good learnings that came out of that, and the team did end up in A good place. I'll leave you with the good thought at the beginning. But they were incredibly dysfunctional when I got called in six months into a three month project, and you heard me correctly, it was supposed to be a three month project. And I got called in after six months because they, although they had a lot of code, they had nothing to show for it. There was nothing that actually worked. They had no end in sight. And so when I came into this team, they were extremely dysfunctional. There were pockets of people that worked well together. So these two people worked well together and those two people worked well together, but as a team they did not. There were two of them that wouldn't even work on the same floor as the rest of the people. They wouldn't even sit in the same area. We had people who were, you know, very argumentative with each other. It was just, it was really, really bad dynamics. There were disagreements at a technical level, there were disagreements at a people level and it just, it was completely a mess. So we had to work through all of these things. I took everybody aside individually, one on one, but one on ones in an environment like that tend to be a lot of finger pointing because each person, when you take them aside individually, will say, well, this is clearly why that person is wrong. Because nobody wants to acknowledge that they're also part of blame. And yet when we have a team dynamic that's a problem like this, then truly everybody shares a little bit of the blame. Some, some people obviously more than others. But we didn't, we wouldn't have gotten to this place if everybody wasn't doing something a little odd. So I start with a lot of one on one conversations and then as quickly as possible, we're trying to get into group discussions. How can we as a group talk about what's going on? Let's look at the systems that are going on within here. This is a team that when I first showed up on their board, they had a done column and then they had a done done column and then they had a done done done column. And even done done done didn't mean in production. So this was a complete mess on every level. Their workflow was a mess. Their team dynamics were a mess. They spent six months on this three month project and had nothing to show for it. All good people, I want to call that out. When you talk to all of them individually, they were all good and decent people who wanted to do a job, but they'd set, they just could not work together.
