The Dual Work of Agile, Managing Projects and Change Simultaneously | Ellen Grove

Summary

Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches
Episode: The Dual Work of Agile, Managing Projects and Change Simultaneously | Ellen Grove
Host: Vasco Duarte
Guest: Alan Grove
Release Date: January 8, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte sits down with Alan Grove to explore the intricate balance Scrum Masters must maintain between managing project deliverables and facilitating organizational change. Titled "The Dual Work of Agile, Managing Projects and Change Simultaneously," the discussion delves deep into the multifaceted role of Agile practitioners in today's dynamic business environments.

Understanding the Dual Work in Agile

Alan Grove begins by highlighting a common misconception among aspiring Scrum Masters: the belief that simply introducing Scrum methodologies will automatically yield positive outcomes. He shares his initial experience, emphasizing that facilitating change requires more than just implementing new processes.

"When you are trying to change how people deliver their work, you've got two streams of work going on. The work that you are actually delivering, which is the important thing... But there's a second set of supplementary outcomes, which is the change in organization and behavior and processes that you're trying to achieve." (03:39)

Change Leadership: Guiding Without Hierarchy

The conversation shifts to the concept of change leadership, a term Alan uses to describe the Scrum Master's role in guiding teams through transformation without wielding traditional hierarchical power. He underscores the importance of acting as a horizontal leader, fostering an environment where change is a collective endeavor rather than a top-down directive.

"As a Scrum master, you really need to think about how much of the change, how do you make the change work itself visible?" (07:12)

The Importance of Visibility in Change Management

A pivotal point in their discussion revolves around the visibility of work and change processes. Alan argues that without making the dual streams of work—project deliverables and change management—visible, teams are more likely to struggle with the transformation.

"If you don't make that second stream of work visible... I think you're doomed." (06:05)

He elaborates that visibility facilitates better understanding among team members and stakeholders, clarifying priorities and trade-offs.

Embracing Lean Change Management

Alan shares his journey into change management, emphasizing his preference for the Lean Change Management approach over traditional models. He recounts an experience from his Prosci training, where he advocated for a more flexible framework aligned with Lean and Agile principles.

"I find that the lean change Management approach is much, much, much more useful to Scrum masters..." (07:45)

This approach advocates for iterative planning and adaptability, allowing teams to respond dynamically to the complexities of change.

Building Trust Through Transparency

The duo delves into the symbiotic relationship between transparency and trust. Making work visible is not just a logistical necessity but also a foundational element for building trust among team members and stakeholders.

"You have to actively work at that trust building... rather than solve this problem for them rather than solve this problem with them." (12:50)

Alan emphasizes that without trust, increased visibility can feel like micromanagement, undermining the very essence of Agile principles.

Engaging Stakeholders in the Change Process

Alan underscores the necessity of involving stakeholders early and consistently in the change process. Preparing them for greater transparency ensures they are not overwhelmed or disoriented by the newfound visibility.

"You also have to bring a little bit of patience and trust and humility to the table... You're not seeing finished products yet and you're seeing all of the stuff that we used to hide from you." (13:15)

This proactive engagement fosters a collaborative environment where stakeholders are partners in the transformation journey.

Key Takeaways and Conclusions

• Dual Streams of Work: Successful Agile transformation requires managing both project deliverables and the accompanying organizational change.

• Change Leadership: Scrum Masters must adopt a leadership style that empowers teams horizontally, facilitating change without traditional authority structures.

• Visibility: Making both streams of work transparent is crucial for clarity, prioritization, and stakeholder engagement.

• Lean Change Management: An iterative, flexible approach to change management aligns perfectly with Agile methodologies, allowing teams to adapt seamlessly.

• Trust Building: Transparency must be coupled with intentional trust-building efforts to prevent perceptions of micromanagement.

• Stakeholder Engagement: Early and continuous involvement of stakeholders ensures they are aligned and supportive of the transformation efforts.

Alan Grove wraps up the discussion by reiterating the importance of viewing Agile transformation as an ongoing, collaborative process that requires diligence, adaptability, and unwavering commitment to fostering a transparent and trust-filled environment.

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Notable Quotes

• Alan Grove (03:39):
  "When you are trying to change how people deliver their work, you've got two streams of work going on."

• Alan Grove (07:45):
  "I find that the lean change Management approach is much, much, much more useful to Scrum masters..."

• Alan Grove (12:50):
  "You have to actively work at that trust building... rather than solve this problem for them rather than solve this problem with them."

• Alan Grove (13:15):
  "You're not seeing finished products yet and you're seeing all of the stuff that we used to hide from you."

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Conclusion

This episode offers invaluable insights for Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches navigating the complexities of managing project deliverables while steering organizational change. Alan Grove's experiences and strategies provide actionable advice for fostering transparency, building trust, and effectively engaging stakeholders to ensure successful Agile transformations. Whether you're a seasoned Agile practitioner or new to the field, the lessons shared in this conversation are instrumental in enhancing your approach to Agile leadership.

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Transcript

[Vasco Duarte]

Hey, how are you doing? I'm Vasco Duarte, your host on the Scrum Master Toolbox podcast. And I've got some exciting news. So right now, as I record this, I'm holding in my hand the signed contract for our very first Global Agile Summit. We're all in and I couldn't wait to share this news with you. So mark your calendars. May 18th, 20th of 2025 in Tallinn, Estonia. We're gonna have a transformative experience. We're putting together an event that is all about real life agile. It's not theory or buzzwords. It's practitioners sharing what's working, what's making an impact, and how they've overcome challenges that you too will have to face, or maybe even facing. Right now we're bringing together the best stories in Agile. From product leaders to engineering wizards to business, these will be stories that will inspire you to action. This isn't just another conference. It's a chance to connect with the people that are shaping the future of Agile. And here's the best part. Right now we're in our super early bird phase and that means you can grab tickets at just 25% of the final price. Look, that's not just half off, it's half off of the half off. It's an incredible deal for our dedicated community members, just like you listening to this right now. So at the summit, day one will be all about hands on workshops. And days two and three, we'll dive into leadership, product strategy, coding, testing, and everything that makes Agile thrive in organizations. Right now remember, these are all first person real life stories. Now whether you're a leader, a developer, or part of a consulting company, this event is built to take your Agile game to the next level. So don't wait. Go to globalagilesummit.com and grab your ticket. Today, let's all make 2025 the year agile truly transforms your teams, your business and our industry. I'll see you all in Tallinn. And Remember, go to globalagilesummit.com and get your super early bird ticket right now. It only be available until the agenda is announced, so don't wait. Grab it right now, right now that that's out of the way, onto the episode.

[Alan Grove]

Hello everybody. Welcome to our Wednesday the Change Leadership episode this week with Alan Grove. Hey Alan, welcome back.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Hey Vasco, lovely to be speaking with you.

[Alan Grove]

Likewise. And today we're going to dive into a topic which we kind of touched on already on Monday, so be sure to check that episode. We're going talk about change And I like to call it change leadership, because in the end, we're not doing the change, we're helping others do the change. And that does require us grandmasters and agile coaches to assume the role of a leader, even if it is a. We could call it horizontal leader, right? Like, not a vertical leader. No hierarchy involved in that process.

[Vasco Duarte]

All right, but let's dive into the story.

[Alan Grove]

Alan, share a story of that change process that you want to share with us. Walk us through the steps, how things happen over time, and then as you go through, highlight for us the tools, the tips, the tricks, and the techniques you learned back then that you still apply today.

[Unnamed Speaker]

So as I was thinking about change leadership, it's kind of hard to point to one single team or one single organization where I had a big aha moment. But I'll say over the course of the teams that I've worked with and I've worked as a Scrum Master coach in many organizations at this point, when I started off working as a Scrum Master, I thought, oh, I'll just come in, I will explain how Scrum works. We will start working this new way, and everybody will love it. It's fabulous because clearly it will bring all of the good things. And I realized after working with a couple of different teams trying to introduce SCRUM as a way of working, the thing that's missing from the equation is when you are trying to change how people deliver their work, you've got two streams of work going on. The work that you are actually delivering, which is the important thing, that's the outcome that you're after. But there's a second set of supplementary outcomes, which is the change in organization and behavior and processes that you're trying to achieve. And if you don't make that second stream of work visible, in that it has clear outcomes, it has goals that we're after, it has things we're trying to do, and most importantly, it takes time and energy in and of itself. I think you're doomed. It makes it much, much harder to make that change. There are circumstances where maybe you don't need to think about as much about the change management, because maybe the team is in more control of an environment, or you've got a great team that gels and they're just like, hey, yeah, we understand. We're doing this thing. We're on the continuous learning path. My reality has not been that team most of the times. My reality has been teams in big, often big bureaucratic organizations who are suddenly being asked to do something differently. And they don't necessarily understand the why of why they're trying to do things differently and they're not given time and space to think about. Let's focus on the doing things differently. You know, we treat moving to an agile way of working as, oh, we're just going to come in and change all the things and it'll be great. That's sort of like if somebody came to me and said, oh, by the way, okay, starting tomorrow, I want you to eat differently, you're going to change your job, I want you to take a different approach to how you maintain your house. And by the way, let's talk about your finances, because you're going to do those differently too. All at once. Like, that takes a lot of brain space to hold all of that change in your head. And so as a Scrum master, you really need to think about how much of the change, how do you make the change work itself visible? And this is built into Scrum. The feedback loop is there where you think about the team having a retrospective and setting an intention for something that they're going to do differently. And ideally, it's a focused intention. It's not that we come out of the retro with the laundry list of, here's 15 problems we want to solve and we're going to try and solve all of them. Right? So there's a mechanism that's built in there for creating your change plan on a team level. But I find that most teams don't pay enough attention to that. I see a lot more of the natural inclinations, let's create the laundry list of all the things that bug us and then we don't actually address any of them very effectively and we just continue to complain about them every retrospective. So putting some structure around, what is it we're trying to change? What kind of supports do people need to be able to make that change besides somebody showing up and going, hey, we're going to use Scrum now, what needs to change around the team? What kind of supports do they need? What kind of space do they need to be given that all of that is really, really important? And so along the way, I started to learn about change management. I went off and I did prosci change management training and nearly got booted out of the class on the first day when the instructor stood up and said, hey, change is difficult and unpredictable, so you really need to design a big plan up front in order to be able to manage the process. And I'm like, hello, excuse me. I find that the lean change Management approach is much, much, much more useful to Scrum masters where thinking about it gives you a framework based on Lean and Agile principles for thinking about that. How do we make change? What is the goal of the change itself? I mean, we're trying to deliver something, but there's other goals there too. It gives you means for articulating them and talking them, talking about them and planning them alongside the work and making it all visible to the people who are involved.

[Alan Grove]

Yeah, the making the work visible is actually a very important aspect because there is this tendency, and specifically, and I don't mean like change in terms of agile adoption, I mean like any change which we are constantly faced with, like for example, there's a new way to communicate with the contractor, right? Like that needs to be visible and not because somehow people would not be able to do it, they would do it anyway. The problem is that when it's not visible, it's not clear what kind of trade offs we're making. It's not clear the priority of things. We are effectively in the end hiding information from ourselves and our stakeholders when we don't make that work visible. And when you mentioned the retrospective cycle, as you know, the Inspect and Adapt cycle in Scrum as one aspect of how that change gets implemented, I think it also highlights how it is happening all the time. Right, because one of the core aspects of adopting something like Scrum is that you're learning about how it works for you and your team and you're constantly adapting that. And that might mean, you know, testing out a different tool or having a different set of meetings with another, for example, provider or dependent team, whatever that is. Right. Like, and we really need to understand that all the work needs to be visible. How do you help teams not only to realize that, but also to put that in practice to make all the work visible.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Well, and that's why I alluded to the lean change management framework. I don't know if Jason calls it a framework, but the lean change management approach, because it's a great tool for making that change work visible and explicit. Explicit. And it doesn't rely on a big plan up front that is going to change because change is difficult and complex. And I have used that as a tool in organizations that I've worked with. It's partly for the team's benefit, but it's actually more for the benefit around the team, the leaders and the managers and the other functions around the team who really need to be aware of what's changing and why it's changing and what kind of support needs to be provided in order to support the change because those, when you're trying to create lasting change, you have to realize that it doesn't exist in a bubble. Right. Most teams are parts of larger organizations and have strong dependencies and reliances on, on other parts of the organization to do things for them. And so if you make those expectations and intentions visible, that enables you to have better conversations with everybody in the picture about what's going on and are we going in the right direction. And this is why this team over here is suddenly asking you for all of these weird things that they never asked for before. It's a way of making it visible.

[Alan Grove]

And one of the things that you just mentioned that I wanted to highlight is that making work visible is also very practical, I would say, even pragmatic way to involve stakeholders in the change process. Right, it is.

[Unnamed Speaker]

And it also highlights the fact for stakeholders and for leaders that they have a very active role to play in this because this is the making work. I'm a huge fan of making work visible. But that has to be paired with some trust because if you don't create that, if that trust doesn't exist with leaders and stakeholders, as the team starts to work in the open, boy does it start to feel like micromanagement really, really quickly. Right. So you need to, as you're making these changes to support, let's work out loud so everybody can see what's going on all the time. And so that we collectively information, we need to make better decisions about how to do things differently. You have to actively work at that trust building. So the people who are seeing this information for the first time are showing up in constructive ways. Yeah. Rather, rather than going, oh my gosh, look at all these things that are going wrong, I must panic and step in here and tell solve this problem for them rather than solve this problem with them.

[Alan Grove]

Yeah. And we create that trust by being very early on the making things visible aspect. Right. Like the earlier, the better, the more involved the stakeholders are, the more they know what kind of trade offs and decisions we're making, the easier it gets. Absolutely.

[Unnamed Speaker]

But you have to prepare the stakeholders to have that different conversation because in, in organizations that have worked in more traditional ways, they haven't been privy to that information that soon. And so often they're a little, I'm going to say, disoriented. They don't know why they're seeing things so early. And so you have to do the legwork to prepare them with, hey, we're going to invite you in and you're going to see how this is made and it's going to be a great lesson for you because you're going to understand a lot more. But you also have to bring a little bit of patience and trust and humility to the table. Back to humble inquiry, right? You have to understand that we're inviting you, we're inviting you into the back room to see how it's done. So you're not seeing finished products yet and you're seeing all of the stuff that we used to hide from you.

[Alan Grove]

And the Monday episode also refers to that. So make sure to check that out.

[Vasco Duarte]

If you haven't yet.

[Alan Grove]

Ellen, thank you for sharing that.

[Unnamed Speaker]

Oh, you're very welcome.

[Vasco Duarte]

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