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Vasko
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Pasco
Hello everybody. Welcome to our TGIF and product owner episode this week with Aang Vu. Hey Aang, welcome back.
Aang Vu
Yeah, glad to be back Pasco.
Pasco
So Friday is Product owner episode of course and we're going to talk about what great product owners look and work like in a minute. But before that, share with us Aang, what might have been potentially the worst product tolerante pattern you've witnessed in your career?
Aang Vu
Yeah, I'm thinking about the worst po. This situation I will share is not really about the worst po, but the worst situation when the PO and I and the team boom into so I can call that the podcast proxy po. Like in some traditional enterprise we will see the situation that we form a new Scrum team, we have the PO for that Scrum team but that po sometimes they not have the sufficient authority to make the decision from the backlog and to make the decision for the team and instead they will need to seek the approval or to seek the permission from the committee, like for example five other departments or a lot of stakeholders to make the decision and get the expectation alignment and also prioritization. Sometimes the POE will not be able to make that decision on prioritization and it's against the Scrum guide, but somehow it's thing exit in some of the enterprise and I also fall to that situation with my team a while ago. So in this situation I think it will be very challenging for the team and the PO as well because whenever we face new things, face a new problem, we want to discuss and make decision quickly to move on with the peo. But the PEO at That time will need to seek the approval or get the permission from someone else. And the feedback loop is long and it's not sufficient for the agile world. So it is like causing a lot of trouble and also demotivate the team and the PO to to do their work effectively. And yeah, so it is the situation that I think it could happen for any Scrum master and we need to be like wise wound to approach that. And in that situation I also try to help the PO and help the team, including me as well. So I joined with the po, get into the mud and structure the way we engage with the external stakeholder, with the external departments. We starting from set up the regular touch points like two, three times a week. So to make sure that we can shorten the feedback loops, like whenever something change, we have the next meeting to try to sort out with them and we also need to do the homework like before that meeting. We also help the PO and brainstorm with the team to prepare variant a lot of options, tactical one to solve the short term and strategy one for the long term. And we also try to facilitate the decision making in a timely manner to unblock the team. And also that way we try to enhance or improve the influencing for the PO because he has all the information in front of the stakeholders, even he not have the authority to make the decision, but he can facilitate that effectively. And we also have the pullback option like if all that is not working. So what we should do right now in this week to unblock the team and we should all have that and how to reduce the pain for the team and the podcast.
Pasco
Yeah, absolutely. And that's actually a very important approach. So first set up those touch points, focus on reducing the feedback cycle so that the decisions which will for sure come up. Right. So we will have questions that need to be decided on so that those decisions can be gotten quickly and also help the PO navigate the network of stakeholders because there will be different stakeholders and finally have a plan B.
Vasko
Right?
Pasco
We can't make a decision what do we do? Because otherwise we're running the risk of creating high levels of demotivation in the team. I really like that practical approach because it isn't always possible and sometimes it's not even a good idea to stop having a proxy po because the stakeholders might even be more distant, less available. So sometimes the proxy PO can become a great contribution for for the team's agility if we help navigate this connection with the stakeholders and reduce the feedback cycle. So that was a great story and very Practical and of course sometimes we are lucky and have amazing product owners working with us. So let's dive into one of those examples. Ang, if you think about the best product owner that you've ever worked with, how did they work?
Aang Vu
Yeah. In another project I have chance to work with a great product owner like she not simply managing the backlogs but she connects the dots between the customers, the business, the tech and the strategy and help the team to really understand the purpose of the work. And that POS is not really come from the business or or marketing background. She come from the development background but working for the company in like more than seven years and she know all the stuff and she knows all the details of the system and understand the system and all the development team very well. And it is also the unfair advantage for the PO because she can work with the the team very well and but she also new to the PO roles and we can observe that she tried to learning a lot for the PEO technique and all the PO skill and we can observe that she start using those new tool for the PO like the product roadmap. It started with the feature, isn't it that traditional plans but then she start connecting that features with the user pain points to help the development team to really understand what value we bring to the table, what value or what problem we help the customer to solve. And also by the time we also adopting some other technique from the PO like user story mapping to connect from the individual story to the bigger step of the customer in the journey. And the good thing from the repeal I think is not always about the PO skill or always about the way she communicates with the team but it's about the way she bring the clarity to the team. Like she bring the purpose from the work, she help people to understand the value we bring and then the team can be more motivated to deliver and to contribute to the big picture. So it is very important for the peel.
Pasco
Yeah, that's actually a great perspective that the motivation of the team must also be in the product ownership set of important things to worry about. Right. Like it's not only the backlog, it's also the customer pains. It's not only what we're doing but also why we're doing it and communicating that. But it's also all of that because it helps with the motivation of the team. And if the team isn't motivated then of course they will not have the energy, the focus to solve the little obstacles that they will for sure find. Right. And that will then come back to the proctor and make their work even harder. So it's a great call out to focus on motivation as one of the responsibilities of the product owner. Not only the product owner, of course, but also the product owner. That's a great story. Thank you for sharing that. Aang. We're almost at the end unfortunately, but before we go a where can people go and find out more about you and the work that you're doing?
Aang Vu
Yeah, I think people can reach me in LinkedIn, so I'm Vu and I'm glad to connect to people and help out in the Scrum Master journey.
Pasco
Absolutely. So check out the LinkedIn page on the show notes and why not connect with Aang and strike up a conversation, ask a few follow up questions and maybe invite him to talk to your product owner whom you are struggling with. Aang, it's been a pleasure. Thank you very much for joining us this week and for being so generous with your time and your knowledge.
Aang Vu
Yep, thanks for having me.
Vasko
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Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast: Agile Storytelling from the Trenches
Episode: The Hidden Cost of Decision-Making Delays in Product Development
Guest: Anh Vu
Release Date: July 25, 2025
In this insightful episode of the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast, host Vasco Duarte engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Anh Vu, an experienced Agile Coach and Scrum Master. The episode delves deep into the often-overlooked challenges and implications of decision-making delays in product development, offering practical strategies to overcome them.
Anh Vu kicks off the discussion by sharing a particularly challenging scenario he encountered in his career: the existence of a "Proxy Product Owner" within traditional enterprise structures.
Anh Vu [01:42]: "In some traditional enterprise, we form a new Scrum team with a PO who sometimes doesn't have the sufficient authority to make decisions from the backlog. Instead, they need to seek approval from multiple committees or stakeholders."
This situation arises when the Product Owner (PO) lacks the autonomy to prioritize tasks or make swift decisions, leading to extended feedback loops and frustration within the team. Anh emphasizes that such constraints are "against the Scrum guide" and can significantly demotivate both the PO and the development team.
Addressing the challenges posed by a Proxy PO requires a multifaceted approach. Anh outlines several strategies that he and his team employed to navigate this obstacle effectively:
Establish Regular Touchpoints:
Anh Vu [03:15]: "We set up regular touchpoints, like two to three times a week, to ensure that feedback loops are shortened and decisions are made promptly."
Collaborative Option Brainstorming: Anh and his team collaborate with the PO to "prepare various options, tactical ones for the short term and strategic ones for the long term," ensuring that they are well-prepared for stakeholder meetings.
Enhance Influencing Skills: By structuring their engagement with external stakeholders, Anh assists the PO in "facilitating decision-making in a timely manner to unblock the team."
Develop a Plan B: Recognizing that not all strategies may work, Anh emphasizes the importance of having fallback options to "reduce the pain for the team and the PO."
Pasco, the co-host, echoes the significance of these strategies:
Pasco [05:10]: "Focus on reducing the feedback cycle so that decisions can be gotten quickly and help the PO navigate the network of stakeholders."
Shifting focus to positive experiences, Anh Vu shares an exemplary case of a Product Owner who significantly enhanced team performance and motivation.
Anh Vu [06:35]: "She connects the dots between the customers, the business, the tech, and the strategy, helping the team understand the purpose of their work."
Key traits of this outstanding PO include:
Deep System Knowledge: Coming from a development background, she possesses an intimate understanding of the system and the development team’s dynamics.
Continuous Learning: Despite being new to the PO role, she actively sought to "learn a lot about PO techniques and skills," incorporating tools like product roadmaps and user story mapping.
Purpose-Driven Communication: By linking features to "user pain points," she ensures the team comprehends the value they deliver, fostering greater motivation.
Anh highlights that her ability to "bring clarity to the team" and articulate the bigger picture was pivotal in driving the team's success.
Pasco underscores the connection between effective product ownership and team motivation:
Pasco [08:51]: "The motivation of the team must also be in the product owner's set of important things to worry about."
He elaborates that a motivated team is more resilient and proactive in overcoming obstacles, which in turn alleviates pressure on the PO. This symbiotic relationship ensures sustained productivity and morale.
As the episode wraps up, Anh Vu provides avenues for listeners to connect and benefit from his expertise.
Anh Vu [09:55]: "People can reach me on LinkedIn—I'm Anh Vu—and I'm glad to connect and help out in the Scrum Master journey."
Pasco encourages listeners to engage with Anh for further insights and support in navigating product ownership challenges.
Pasco [10:04]: "Check out the LinkedIn page in the show notes and connect with Anh to strike up a conversation."
Autonomy is Crucial: Product Owners must have the authority to make decisions swiftly to maintain team momentum and agility.
Regular Communication: Establishing frequent touchpoints with stakeholders can significantly reduce decision-making delays.
Continuous Learning for POs: Product Owners should continuously develop their skills and tools to effectively bridge the gap between various facets of the business.
Team Motivation is Paramount: A motivated team not only enhances productivity but also alleviates the burden on Product Owners, creating a harmonious and efficient workflow.
This episode offers valuable lessons for Scrum Masters, Product Owners, and Agile Coaches alike. By sharing real-world scenarios and actionable strategies, Anh Vu provides listeners with the tools needed to enhance decision-making processes and foster a motivated, high-performing team.
Connect with Anh Vu:
LinkedIn: Anh Vu
Join the Conversation: Engage with Anh and other Agile practitioners to share experiences, seek advice, and collaborate on best practices.
Note: For more enriching content and resources, consider joining the Scrum Master Toolbox Membership to access over 700 hours of Agile content, live workshops, and a supportive community of professionals.